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How does Mohammad Abbas compare to Glenn McGrath, Vernon Philander and Mohammad Asif?

pak14

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How do these players compare and contrast?
-speed
-seam
-swing
-control
-angle
-height
 
Abbas, Asif and Philander are all conditions specific bowlers, with Philander the least conditions limited bowler and Abbas being the most limited by conditions of the trio.

McGrath is one among the GOATs.
 
McGrath is the greatest (Test + ODI combined) fast bowler of all time. No cricketer in history has a more flawless record.

Asif was a genius who would have gone on to become a legend and establish himself alongside Wasim and Imran as Pakistan’s greatest fast bowler.

Philander was excellent in favorable conditions but overall an overrated bowler. He was never as good as Anderson.

Abbas is inferior to all of them but he could have been close to Philander if he was picked earlier in his career. He is around 38-39, and Pakistan wasted his prime years.

Should have been made his debut in the early 2010s when Pakistan was wasting time with Rahat.
 
1. Glenn McGrath 10/10
2. Vernon Philander 7.5/10
3. Mohammad Asif 7/10
4. Mohammad Abbas 6/10
 
Abbas lacks the pace and the height. Picked earlier he would have been a better bowler.
Philander was definitely overrated
Asif a genius bowler. IMO had the potential to be better than Wasim and Imran and become an ATG.
McGrath ATG
 
Abbas, Asif and Philander are all conditions specific bowlers, with Philander the least conditions limited bowler and Abbas being the most limited by conditions of the trio.

McGrath is one among the GOATs.

Where did the notion come that Asif was a condition specific bowler? The guy destroyed a stacked SriLankan batting line up in Kandy. His spell in Karachi vs India? Spells in South Africa on good batting surfaces?
 
If you think Asif was below Philander then I don't know what to say to you.

Asif ruined his legacy by spot fixing. He can't be considered better than Philander because he played very few games. Philander has won more games with bowl than Asif over his entire career.
 
Where did the notion come that Asif was a condition specific bowler? The guy destroyed a stacked SriLankan batting line up in Kandy. His spell in Karachi vs India? Spells in South Africa on good batting surfaces?

Don't get me wrong. He had incredible guile and used his wobbly seam to devastating effect on many strong line ups and on his day, he could run through many line ups even on docile surfaces. On helpful surfaces, he could make batting line ups look silly.

But while accuracy and guile were his strengths, he was not always the quickest bowlers going around and therefore his average record in Australia and at home in Pakistan. Even the 6fer he took at Sydney was on a green top if I remember it correctly. Again, not saying he could never do it on unhelpful surfaces, just saying he couldn't do it consistently due to his shortcomings with pace. To be honest, Vernon was much shorter than Asif and bowled at around the same speed. But Vernon was arguably the most accurate bowler in the last 2 decades and so even if there wasn't much help in say Australia, he wouldn't leak as much runs and if he chanced upon a rare greentop like the one he got at Hobart, he could cause serious damage when he and Abbott ran through Australia when Aus collapsed in a heap.
 
Abbas reminds me more like Staurt Clarke of Australia. Looking at his action, pace, bounce, swing and seam he resembles him more. Ability wise Asif, McGrath and Philander were miles ahead of him.
 
If Abbas had debuted a few years earlier, he might have had a career similar to Philander's, but at this stage it's unlikely he'd pick 200 test wickets. There's no real comparison in terms of skill levels with any of the three.
 
McGrath is a legend for goodness sake with impeccable line and length. Asif did not play long enough to be judged. Abbas has not done it enough or for a sustained period.
 
Would anyone rate Umar Gul in this category? Or maybe he was too inconsistent?
I suppose Gul wasn't an alltime great.
 
I have never seen a batsman's emotions being played and played like a fiddle except when Asif's bowling

ABDv looked lost at sea when Asif toured South Africa in 2007. KP was Asif's bunny. And the Aussies all looked lost when Asif was bowling to them. in 09/10
 
I have never seen a batsman's emotions being played and played like a fiddle except when Asif's bowling

ABDv looked lost at sea when Asif toured South Africa in 2007. KP was Asif's bunny. And the Aussies all looked lost when Asif was bowling to them. in 09/10

Asif wasn't AS accurate as McGrath but he was AS intelligent for sure and definitely had the skills to back it up.
 
4 balls outside off. He knows KP's itching to play. KP moves across the stumps to play. Bang in a short ball IN to towards the body and KP gets surprised. Forces him on the backfoot and bowls a perfect outswinger where he HAS to play on the 6th ball. Phew. Beautiful.
 
Mcgrath was a cricket anomaly. The most accurate bowler in cricket history with brains to match. The closest was to him Hadlee. Hadlee was just a rung lower. All others shows great potential but just didn't have the consistency to match Mcgrath.
 
McGrath is the greatest (Test + ODI combined) fast bowler of all time. No cricketer in history has a more flawless record.

Asif was a genius who would have gone on to become a legend and establish himself alongside Wasim and Imran as Pakistan’s greatest fast bowler.

Philander was excellent in favorable conditions but overall an overrated bowler. He was never as good as Anderson.

Abbas is inferior to all of them but he could have been close to Philander if he was picked earlier in his career. He is around 38-39, and Pakistan wasted his prime years.

Should have been made his debut in the early 2010s when Pakistan was wasting time with Rahat.

I think cricket fans should have some shame if not the basic acumen of the game, before they make comparisons like Abbas vs McGrath.
 
The moment abbas played against a better batting lineup recently in county cricket I.e Surrey who had some good intl level batsmen he was infective hashim amla made a double hundred . And ollie pope also made a big hundred.

That's why like I said put abbas against top quality opposition they have worked him out are People forgetting what happened in south africa and New Zealand. He's been found out by the top sides you can clearly see the trajectory of his test form with atg form at the start and then totally unable to even get wickets .
 
Easiest question ever.

Abbass is short orherwise he would have been more deadly.

Philander is 5'9. You consider that tall?

The answer is simple. The other three were just more naturally gifted than Abbas.
 
I think Abbas lack of pace definitely hindered him. He's pretty accurate too but he's not the greatest at outsmarting batsmen.
Philander was the better version of Abbas

I will maintain that Asif still leaves those 2 behind. His bowling IQ is up there with the best like McGrath and Wasim in my opinion. His stats really don't do justice to how good he was. Add to that he had the skill, bounce, ability to accelerate off the wicket.

McGrath was a better version of Asif. The greatest fast bowler of all time.
 
I think Abbas lack of pace definitely hindered him. He's pretty accurate too but he's not the greatest at outsmarting batsmen.
Philander was the better version of Abbas

I will maintain that Asif still leaves those 2 behind. His bowling IQ is up there with the best like McGrath and Wasim in my opinion. His stats really don't do justice to how good he was. Add to that he had the skill, bounce, ability to accelerate off the wicket.

McGrath was a better version of Asif. The greatest fast bowler of all time.

McGrath was most accurate of all bowlers ever , but sill wise I think Asif was slight ahead. But McGrath accuracy was so good it enhances his effectiviness
 
Pakistan lost a gem of a bowler in Mohammad Asif, I haven't seen a more intellectually capable fast bowler in Pakistan since Asif. The ability to set a batsman, the ability to probe a length repeatedly, and the surreal ability to consistently generate seam and swing movement were all part of the package. Good height and pace meant that he was destined to be one of the greatest bowlers of this decade and perhaps Pakistan's history.

Abbas is nowhere near the bowler Asif once was. Abbas is a bully only on certain conditions, and he is a failure elsewhere given his 75mph deliveries that don't challenge batsmen in any way. I'm surprised batsmen don't start sweeping and reverse sweeping him at that pace, it's just pathetic. Furthermore, he relies heavily on the seam movement generated on the pitch, but he doesn't seam the ball consistently. In the test series against England, their commentators analyzed his grip for the ball that seamed in and the ball that seamed out, and figured that the grip was identical meaning that Abbas really had no control over the direction the ball seamed, only that he knew how to seam the ball. On top of that, Philander, Asif, and McGrath all knew how to swing the ball and that is perhaps the biggest difference. Abbas cannot even swing the cricket ball because of his height and funky action, and by relying solely on movement off the pitch, he is in fact a bowler with a very limited skillset.

The fact that Abbas is mentioned on this list is quite insulting to the others, because Abbas hasn't played and performed enough to merit a comparison with these players.

If Abbas improves his pace and adds to his skillset, then he is a solid option but at the moment, he isn't.
 
Asif wasn't AS accurate as McGrath but he was AS intelligent for sure and definitely had the skills to back it up.

I have watched this video thousand times already and can watch it again and again and again and will never get bored of watching this. Asif was a magician and a treat to watch.
 
Abbas just had a couple of good years. He's been terrible since 2019 especially outside Asia

Abbas.png
 
In current form Abbas is better than all three of them.

Absolutely, it's a no-brainer to select Abbas ahead of the other three at the moment given that McGrath is 51, and Asif and Philander are living it up after quitting professional cricket.
 
I suspect 51 year old McGrath would still do better. Remember that all star match where a retired McGrath nearly 3 years out of the game destroyed the Australian T20 side.
 
McGrath does not belong anywhere near other bowlers.
 
McGrath should not even be on this list. Top 5 GOAT fast bowler.

Asif is way ahead of Philander. You can bring in all the stats and numbers and averages you want, you just can't quantify how great Asif was with just statistics. Very very few bowlers made world class batsmen look as ordinary as Asif did. Philander had a great Test career and may even have better stats, but only a handful of bowlers were as magical with the ball in hand as Mohammad Asif was. Only newer cricket fans or those who didn't really watch both Asif and Philander's peak would argue that the latter was a better Test bowler. It's not even close imo.

Abbas burst on to the scene and was really special. But he's fallen off since and does not have age on his side. He may still be recalled for certain tours - like maybe when we tour England again - but I doubt he'll play more than 30-35 Tests for Pakistan when it's all said and done.
 
What an impressive bowler. He’s 34 but in the limited opportunities he got he has performed so so well and has won Pakistan some really good test matches abroad.

Averaging 22sh with almost 100 test scalps puts him in an elite company.

Happy for him getting all this appreciation. It is richly deserved.
 
a bit off topic, but Pakistan had a similar bowler called Sadaf Hussain, who never got to play because of Waqar Younis
 
Good to see him succeed. I would not have selected him but he was remarkable today. Pakistan fans criticize him a bit much. He is the best test pacer to come out of the country in the last 15 years.

He is a trundler and not what fans want to see in their team but results are what matters. The last 3 tests are a proof that being grounded works better than being a showoff (Kamran, Sajid, Noman and Abbas). Domestic perfomers should be preferred over the so called superstars.
 
He bowled his heart out in 2nd innings. However it's fair to still say his loose 1st innings bowling meant we were playing catchup cricket.

Conceding a deficit of 90 in South Africa is fatal.

Hopefully he has another spell in him in Cape Town.
 
Great performance, but this is the difference between Abbas & those legends, in a similar position they would have finished the game; his lack of speed proved fatal, he has everything but not that.
 
Great performance, but this is the difference between Abbas & those legends, in a similar position they would have finished the game; his lack of speed proved fatal, he has everything but not that.

So true.
A great bowler has to be complete and should be able to finish matches like these from winning positions. Ws rarely lost from such situations. Gabba 1999 being an exception.
 
He bowled his heart out in 2nd innings. However it's fair to still say his loose 1st innings bowling meant we were playing catchup cricket.

Conceding a deficit of 90 in South Africa is fatal.

Hopefully he has another spell in him in Cape Town.
He should not have been playing his first game in 3 years considering the test attack we have fielded in those years he was under pressure as he was returning he’s not perfect but he’s still our best red ball pacer
 
One good spell does not make him compare to other great bowlers, take it easy. He was dropped years for the right reason and he was a useless trundler , who just took 6 wickets against some low level batsmen where Rabada was better than many others.
 
One good spell does not make him compare to other great bowlers, take it easy. He was dropped years for the right reason and he was a useless trundler , who just took 6 wickets against some low level batsmen where Rabada was better than many others.
And you should also take it easy. I am not comparing him to anyone else but 97 Test wickets in 26 matches with average of 23 and Economy Rate of 2,46 is impressing. Everyone knows he lacks pace, but his record is still good.
 
Mcgrath for me is the Goat of test bowling.

Philander was very good and consistent

Asif had exceptional skill set. The man who passed on the wobble seam delivery skill to Anderson and Broad to enhance their skill set in unhelpful conditions. He also had Majority of the bats he bowled to on TOAST.

Abbas I'm afraid should not be in the conversation with any of the above.
 
McGrath

Huge Gap

Philander
Asif
Abbas

Based on their output and output doesn’t mean stats here. It’s their performance over their career.
 
He is a wonderful bowler in helpful conditions but would be mincemeat everywhere else.

Can you imagine him bowling on a phatta to Harry Brook?

He has done well for himself as solid county pro and delivered whenever Pakistan needs him but his bowling is too limited to be a long term international option.
 
ABBAS should not be put in the same bracket as the legends that were mentioned. The only commonality between them and Abbas is that all of them are medium pacers.
 
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One good spell does not make him compare to other great bowlers, take it easy. He was dropped years for the right reason and he was a useless trundler , who just took 6 wickets against some low level batsmen where Rabada was better than

One good spell does not make him compare to other great bowlers, take it easy. He was dropped years for the right reason and he was a useless trundler , who just took 6 wickets against some low level batsmen where Rabada was better than many others.
Abbas was never a goat, but you can't take away the credit. He bowled brilliantly today. So called very phaast naseem was a waste who is fitter and younger than him. Abbas was never as good as macgrath, asif etc but miles ahead than many other pacers pakistan carrying from last 3-4 years.
 
He is a wonderful bowler in helpful conditions but would be mincemeat everywhere else.

Can you imagine him bowling on a phatta to Harry Brook?

He has done well for himself as solid county pro and delivered whenever Pakistan needs him but his bowling is too limited to be a long term international option.
it’s a misconception. No matter how “pace is pace Yaar” brigade cut it, they will eventually get embarrassed by the dynamism of this sport.
Abbas made his career in the UAE for crying out loud, and he was top wicket taker in last QEAT FC season, which was played…wait for it.. in Pakistan.
There is no evidence to believe that he can or cannot do this in Pakistan too.
 
it’s a misconception. No matter how “pace is pace Yaar” brigade cut it, they will eventually get embarrassed by the dynamism of this sport.
Abbas made his career in the UAE for crying out loud, and he was top wicket taker in last QEAT FC season, which was played…wait for it.. in Pakistan.
There is no evidence to believe that he can or cannot do this in Pakistan too.
Pace is pace is the wrong attitude.

But there has to be some pace right.

I don't think there has ever been a (long term) successful 75mph bowler in international cricket in the history of the game.
 
Pace is pace is the wrong attitude.

But there has to be some pace right.

I don't think there has ever been a (long term) successful 75mph bowler in international cricket in the history of the game.

Not necessarily. There have been very successful test bowlers who were effective with 75-80 mph speeds on all surfaces. It’s a myth that you NEED pace to succeed in test cricket.
White Ball less so.
 
Not necessarily. There have been very successful test bowlers who were effective with 75-80 mph speeds on all surfaces. It’s a myth that you NEED pace to succeed in test cricket.
White Ball less so.
Please name some that bowled the same speed as Abbas - 74-77 average.

If there are any they will play majority in South Africa or NZ
 
Great performance, but this is the difference between Abbas & those legends, in a similar position they would have finished the game; his lack of speed proved fatal, he has everything but not that.

How many times has anyone got a 8 wickets in a Innings.
 
Please name some that bowled the same speed as Abbas - 74-77 average.

If there are any they will play majority in South Africa or NZ
It’s simply not true. From Asians,C Vaas, S Nawaz, V Prasad, Mohammad Asif, Bhuvi Kumar. Also non Asians like Anderson, Pollock and Philander were pretty good in Asia too.

just like there are great express bowlers, there are great “trundlers” too. It’s about whether the “trundlers” have accuracy, movement and brain. They both have a role to play. You need variety in the attack
 
It’s simply not true. From Asians,C Vaas, S Nawaz, V Prasad, Mohammad Asif, Bhuvi Kumar. Also non Asians like Anderson, Pollock and Philander were pretty good in Asia too.

just like there are great express bowlers, there are great “trundlers” too. It’s about whether the “trundlers” have accuracy, movement and brain. They both have a role to play. You need variety in the attack
This is just my opinion but Abbas is a good 5mph slower than those names mentioned.
 
Pace is pace is the wrong attitude.

But there has to be some pace right.

I don't think there has ever been a (long term) successful 75mph bowler in international cricket in the history of the game.
Bro, still india has won many games on the back of medium pacers between 2011-2013.

I agree that it shouldnt be all about pace, nor should it be all about 75mph.

Whats really important is the line and length aspect. A bowler that can bowl accurately in a spot is what will lead your team to success. Any extra pace is advantage.

Abbas success isnt his low speed but his accurate line and length, that he can bowl consisstently. However that does not mean we should have a pace attack of 130ish bowlers.

At the same time, that doesnt mean we bowl the likes of Aamir Jamal that might have pace but lack any accuracy. His one over ended the game for pakistan today due to lack of accuracy.

An ideal attack can have a medium pacer like abbas but it needs to have atleast 2 pacers with him that can not only bowl at 140+ but are also accurate with their line and length.
 
All boring bowlers - have no interest in any of them

If you think Asif and mcGrath were boring, than you you really lack any knowledge on cricket.

Mind you, at the end part of his career Akram was bowling at similar paces as these guys aswell
 
If you think Asif and mcGrath were boring, than you you really lack any knowledge on cricket.

Mind you, at the end part of his career Akram was bowling at similar paces as these guys aswell
Almost all great pacers were bowling in this range towards the end
 
If you’ve made up your mind then why waste time. Just believe what you believe. Who cares about the facts
But you haven't shown any bowler or presented facts that will help me change my mind.

I can't remember speed of Vaas but you must agree Jimmy was comfortably faster than Abbas, as was Philander.

Names like Venkatesh Prasad or Buv Kumar were failures in test.

He would have been nothing more than a horse's for courses bowler and found out eventually.
 
Bro, still india has won many games on the back of medium pacers between 2011-2013.

I agree that it shouldnt be all about pace, nor should it be all about 75mph.

Whats really important is the line and length aspect. A bowler that can bowl accurately in a spot is what will lead your team to success. Any extra pace is advantage.

Abbas success isnt his low speed but his accurate line and length, that he can bowl consisstently. However that does not mean we should have a pace attack of 130ish bowlers.

At the same time, that doesnt mean we bowl the likes of Aamir Jamal that might have pace but lack any accuracy. His one over ended the game for pakistan today due to lack of accuracy.

An ideal attack can have a medium pacer like abbas but it needs to have atleast 2 pacers with him that can not only bowl at 140+ but are also accurate with their line and length.
India might have had success for a very short term in few matches with these types of bowlers but long term there is no 75mph who has been successful in cricket.

He could have played some more matches yeah because he does bowl with control but it's probably better for him he played county instead.
 
Bro, still india has won many games on the back of medium pacers between 2011-2013.

I agree that it shouldnt be all about pace, nor should it be all about 75mph.

Whats really important is the line and length aspect. A bowler that can bowl accurately in a spot is what will lead your team to success. Any extra pace is advantage.

Abbas success isnt his low speed but his accurate line and length, that he can bowl consisstently. However that does not mean we should have a pace attack of 130ish bowlers.

At the same time, that doesnt mean we bowl the likes of Aamir Jamal that might have pace but lack any accuracy. His one over ended the game for pakistan today due to lack of accuracy.

An ideal attack can have a medium pacer like abbas but it needs to have atleast 2 pacers with him that can not only bowl at 140+ but are also accurate with their line and length.
I agree with everything you said. However I have 2 points of debate:

1. 140 KPH feels like a magic number. If they have line and length, and skills, then even 130+ can be lethal.
2. Amir Jamal has done nothing wrong, yet you seem to have an agenda against him. After winning the Man of the Series in Australia for his all-round performance, he has maintained a batting average of 34 and a bowling average of 33 in 2024—not bad at all.

Even in this Test, he took 2 wickets in 8 overs in the first innings. In the second innings, he wasn’t given a proper chance to bowl, and handing him the ball suddenly in a pressure situation was poor captaincy. Anything could have happened with such a gamble.

He deserves a proper run and should be judged on performance, not based on some subjective analysis.
 
India might have had success for a very short term in few matches with these types of bowlers but long term there is no 75mph who has been successful in cricket.

He could have played some more matches yeah because he does bowl with control but it's probably better for him he played county instead.
You were just shown examples lol
 
In terms of metronomy he is like vernon. He is always there and there about. If you really want to test patience of batsmen you need such bowlers. Erratic bowlers who can't stick to line or length can't test batsmen.
 
But you haven't shown any bowler or presented facts that will help me change my mind.

I can't remember speed of Vaas but you must agree Jimmy was comfortably faster than Abbas, as was Philander.

Names like Venkatesh Prasad or Buv Kumar were failures in test.

He would have been nothing more than a horse's for courses bowler and found out eventually.
Nope all these bowlers were comfortably in that 120-130 range. Same as Abbas.
In fact, nearly all greats of the game bowled in this range during test cricket at their peaks.
 
I agree with everything you said. However I have 2 points of debate:

1. 140 KPH feels like a magic number. If they have line and length, and skills, then even 130+ can be lethal.
2. Amir Jamal has done nothing wrong, yet you seem to have an agenda against him. After winning the Man of the Series in Australia for his all-round performance, he has maintained a batting average of 34 and a bowling average of 33 in 2024—not bad at all.

Even in this Test, he took 2 wickets in 8 overs in the first innings. In the second innings, he wasn’t given a proper chance to bowl, and handing him the ball suddenly in a pressure situation was poor captaincy. Anything could have happened with such a gamble.

He deserves a proper run and should be judged on performance, not based on some subjective analysis.
sir Aj has no line and length. You keep ignoring that or dont understand what accurate line and length it.
 
It’s simply not true. From Asians,C Vaas, S Nawaz, V Prasad, Mohammad Asif, Bhuvi Kumar. Also non Asians like Anderson, Pollock and Philander were pretty good in Asia too.

just like there are great express bowlers, there are great “trundlers” too. It’s about whether the “trundlers” have accuracy, movement and brain. They both have a role to play. You need variety in the attack

Lol. Anderson started off as a genuine tearaway right from the Burnley CC days. And even towards the end of his career, he was more than capable of 85mph + on a good day.
 
sir Aj has no line and length. You keep ignoring that or dont understand what accurate line and length it.
Sir, my point is not about AJ, my point is about the process. You give him 3 test matches on the trot with opportunities to bowl. If at the end, he’s wayward and ineffective, you can go ahead and give him feedback and send him to academy to fix the issue. Follow the process! He’s not my nephew or cousin.
 
Lol. Anderson started off as a genuine tearaway right from the Burnley CC days. And even towards the end of his career, he was more than capable of 85mph + on a good day.
We are not talking about how anyone started. Towards the business end of his career, he was bowling high 70 mph
 
Sir, my point is not about AJ, my point is about the process. You give him 3 test matches on the trot with opportunities to bowl. If at the end, he’s wayward and ineffective, you can go ahead and give him feedback and send him to academy to fix the issue. Follow the process! He’s not my nephew or cousin.
he is wayward and ineffective. This was evident at the Australia tour. If Pakistan plays 10 test matches a year, they cant give more than 2 games for a guy to prove himself.

You keep on telling us the Man of the series, but ignore the pitch map of his bowling.
Usman Shinwari also had great stats, probably the best odi bowling stats at the time, but Mickey rightly did not pick him for the WOrld Cup because his bowling had flaws that other teams would had taken advantage of.
 
All boring bowlers - have no interest in any of them.

Jeez. Mcgrath, Anderson, Hadlee, Pollock, were absolute Champions performers. I would say without Mcgrath, Australia were definitely not having that Great era of theirs. He set up Majority of their wins. Be it Test matches, or the Hattrick of world cups they won from 99 - 2007. He was awesome.
 
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