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1. Glenn McGrath 10/10
2. Vernon Philander 7.5/10
3. Mohammad Asif 7/10
4. Mohammad Abbas 6/10
Abbas, Asif and Philander are all conditions specific bowlers, with Philander the least conditions limited bowler and Abbas being the most limited by conditions of the trio.
McGrath is one among the GOATs.
If you think Asif was below Philander then I don't know what to say to you.
Where did the notion come that Asif was a condition specific bowler? The guy destroyed a stacked SriLankan batting line up in Kandy. His spell in Karachi vs India? Spells in South Africa on good batting surfaces?
Would anyone rate Umar Gul in this category? Or maybe he was too inconsistent?
I suppose Gul wasn't an alltime great.
Gul was a superior T20 bowler.Would anyone rate Umar Gul in this category? Or maybe he was too inconsistent?
I suppose Gul wasn't an alltime great.
I have never seen a batsman's emotions being played and played like a fiddle except when Asif's bowling
ABDv looked lost at sea when Asif toured South Africa in 2007. KP was Asif's bunny. And the Aussies all looked lost when Asif was bowling to them. in 09/10
McGrath is the greatest (Test + ODI combined) fast bowler of all time. No cricketer in history has a more flawless record.
Asif was a genius who would have gone on to become a legend and establish himself alongside Wasim and Imran as Pakistan’s greatest fast bowler.
Philander was excellent in favorable conditions but overall an overrated bowler. He was never as good as Anderson.
Abbas is inferior to all of them but he could have been close to Philander if he was picked earlier in his career. He is around 38-39, and Pakistan wasted his prime years.
Should have been made his debut in the early 2010s when Pakistan was wasting time with Rahat.
Easiest question ever.
Abbass is short orherwise he would have been more deadly.
I think Abbas lack of pace definitely hindered him. He's pretty accurate too but he's not the greatest at outsmarting batsmen.
Philander was the better version of Abbas
I will maintain that Asif still leaves those 2 behind. His bowling IQ is up there with the best like McGrath and Wasim in my opinion. His stats really don't do justice to how good he was. Add to that he had the skill, bounce, ability to accelerate off the wicket.
McGrath was a better version of Asif. The greatest fast bowler of all time.
Asif wasn't AS accurate as McGrath but he was AS intelligent for sure and definitely had the skills to back it up.
How do these players compare and contrast?
-speed
-seam
-swing
-control
-angle
-height
In current form Abbas is better than all three of them.
Yup! What a waste. He was a very good prospect as wella bit off topic, but Pakistan had a similar bowler called Sadaf Hussain, who never got to play because of Waqar Younis
Great performance, but this is the difference between Abbas & those legends, in a similar position they would have finished the game; his lack of speed proved fatal, he has everything but not that.
He should not have been playing his first game in 3 years considering the test attack we have fielded in those years he was under pressure as he was returning he’s not perfect but he’s still our best red ball pacerHe bowled his heart out in 2nd innings. However it's fair to still say his loose 1st innings bowling meant we were playing catchup cricket.
Conceding a deficit of 90 in South Africa is fatal.
Hopefully he has another spell in him in Cape Town.
One good spell after many many years and hype machine is at work, comparing this trundler to McGrathHow do these players compare and contrast?
-speed
-seam
-swing
-control
-angle
-height
And you should also take it easy. I am not comparing him to anyone else but 97 Test wickets in 26 matches with average of 23 and Economy Rate of 2,46 is impressing. Everyone knows he lacks pace, but his record is still good.One good spell does not make him compare to other great bowlers, take it easy. He was dropped years for the right reason and he was a useless trundler , who just took 6 wickets against some low level batsmen where Rabada was better than many others.
One good spell does not make him compare to other great bowlers, take it easy. He was dropped years for the right reason and he was a useless trundler , who just took 6 wickets against some low level batsmen where Rabada was better than
Abbas was never a goat, but you can't take away the credit. He bowled brilliantly today. So called very phaast naseem was a waste who is fitter and younger than him. Abbas was never as good as macgrath, asif etc but miles ahead than many other pacers pakistan carrying from last 3-4 years.One good spell does not make him compare to other great bowlers, take it easy. He was dropped years for the right reason and he was a useless trundler , who just took 6 wickets against some low level batsmen where Rabada was better than many others.
it’s a misconception. No matter how “pace is pace Yaar” brigade cut it, they will eventually get embarrassed by the dynamism of this sport.He is a wonderful bowler in helpful conditions but would be mincemeat everywhere else.
Can you imagine him bowling on a phatta to Harry Brook?
He has done well for himself as solid county pro and delivered whenever Pakistan needs him but his bowling is too limited to be a long term international option.
Pace is pace is the wrong attitude.it’s a misconception. No matter how “pace is pace Yaar” brigade cut it, they will eventually get embarrassed by the dynamism of this sport.
Abbas made his career in the UAE for crying out loud, and he was top wicket taker in last QEAT FC season, which was played…wait for it.. in Pakistan.
There is no evidence to believe that he can or cannot do this in Pakistan too.
Pace is pace is the wrong attitude.
But there has to be some pace right.
I don't think there has ever been a (long term) successful 75mph bowler in international cricket in the history of the game.
Please name some that bowled the same speed as Abbas - 74-77 average.Not necessarily. There have been very successful test bowlers who were effective with 75-80 mph speeds on all surfaces. It’s a myth that you NEED pace to succeed in test cricket.
White Ball less so.
Great performance, but this is the difference between Abbas & those legends, in a similar position they would have finished the game; his lack of speed proved fatal, he has everything but not that.
It’s simply not true. From Asians,C Vaas, S Nawaz, V Prasad, Mohammad Asif, Bhuvi Kumar. Also non Asians like Anderson, Pollock and Philander were pretty good in Asia too.Please name some that bowled the same speed as Abbas - 74-77 average.
If there are any they will play majority in South Africa or NZ
This is just my opinion but Abbas is a good 5mph slower than those names mentioned.It’s simply not true. From Asians,C Vaas, S Nawaz, V Prasad, Mohammad Asif, Bhuvi Kumar. Also non Asians like Anderson, Pollock and Philander were pretty good in Asia too.
just like there are great express bowlers, there are great “trundlers” too. It’s about whether the “trundlers” have accuracy, movement and brain. They both have a role to play. You need variety in the attack
If you’ve made up your mind then why waste time. Just believe what you believe. Who cares about the factsThis is just my opinion but Abbas is a good 5mph slower than those names mentioned.
Bro, still india has won many games on the back of medium pacers between 2011-2013.Pace is pace is the wrong attitude.
But there has to be some pace right.
I don't think there has ever been a (long term) successful 75mph bowler in international cricket in the history of the game.
All boring bowlers - have no interest in any of them
Almost all great pacers were bowling in this range towards the endIf you think Asif and mcGrath were boring, than you you really lack any knowledge on cricket.
Mind you, at the end part of his career Akram was bowling at similar paces as these guys aswell
But you haven't shown any bowler or presented facts that will help me change my mind.If you’ve made up your mind then why waste time. Just believe what you believe. Who cares about the facts
India might have had success for a very short term in few matches with these types of bowlers but long term there is no 75mph who has been successful in cricket.Bro, still india has won many games on the back of medium pacers between 2011-2013.
I agree that it shouldnt be all about pace, nor should it be all about 75mph.
Whats really important is the line and length aspect. A bowler that can bowl accurately in a spot is what will lead your team to success. Any extra pace is advantage.
Abbas success isnt his low speed but his accurate line and length, that he can bowl consisstently. However that does not mean we should have a pace attack of 130ish bowlers.
At the same time, that doesnt mean we bowl the likes of Aamir Jamal that might have pace but lack any accuracy. His one over ended the game for pakistan today due to lack of accuracy.
An ideal attack can have a medium pacer like abbas but it needs to have atleast 2 pacers with him that can not only bowl at 140+ but are also accurate with their line and length.
I agree with everything you said. However I have 2 points of debate:Bro, still india has won many games on the back of medium pacers between 2011-2013.
I agree that it shouldnt be all about pace, nor should it be all about 75mph.
Whats really important is the line and length aspect. A bowler that can bowl accurately in a spot is what will lead your team to success. Any extra pace is advantage.
Abbas success isnt his low speed but his accurate line and length, that he can bowl consisstently. However that does not mean we should have a pace attack of 130ish bowlers.
At the same time, that doesnt mean we bowl the likes of Aamir Jamal that might have pace but lack any accuracy. His one over ended the game for pakistan today due to lack of accuracy.
An ideal attack can have a medium pacer like abbas but it needs to have atleast 2 pacers with him that can not only bowl at 140+ but are also accurate with their line and length.
You were just shown examples lolIndia might have had success for a very short term in few matches with these types of bowlers but long term there is no 75mph who has been successful in cricket.
He could have played some more matches yeah because he does bowl with control but it's probably better for him he played county instead.
Nope all these bowlers were comfortably in that 120-130 range. Same as Abbas.But you haven't shown any bowler or presented facts that will help me change my mind.
I can't remember speed of Vaas but you must agree Jimmy was comfortably faster than Abbas, as was Philander.
Names like Venkatesh Prasad or Buv Kumar were failures in test.
He would have been nothing more than a horse's for courses bowler and found out eventually.
sir Aj has no line and length. You keep ignoring that or dont understand what accurate line and length it.I agree with everything you said. However I have 2 points of debate:
1. 140 KPH feels like a magic number. If they have line and length, and skills, then even 130+ can be lethal.
2. Amir Jamal has done nothing wrong, yet you seem to have an agenda against him. After winning the Man of the Series in Australia for his all-round performance, he has maintained a batting average of 34 and a bowling average of 33 in 2024—not bad at all.
Even in this Test, he took 2 wickets in 8 overs in the first innings. In the second innings, he wasn’t given a proper chance to bowl, and handing him the ball suddenly in a pressure situation was poor captaincy. Anything could have happened with such a gamble.
He deserves a proper run and should be judged on performance, not based on some subjective analysis.
It’s simply not true. From Asians,C Vaas, S Nawaz, V Prasad, Mohammad Asif, Bhuvi Kumar. Also non Asians like Anderson, Pollock and Philander were pretty good in Asia too.
just like there are great express bowlers, there are great “trundlers” too. It’s about whether the “trundlers” have accuracy, movement and brain. They both have a role to play. You need variety in the attack
Sir, my point is not about AJ, my point is about the process. You give him 3 test matches on the trot with opportunities to bowl. If at the end, he’s wayward and ineffective, you can go ahead and give him feedback and send him to academy to fix the issue. Follow the process! He’s not my nephew or cousin.sir Aj has no line and length. You keep ignoring that or dont understand what accurate line and length it.
We are not talking about how anyone started. Towards the business end of his career, he was bowling high 70 mphLol. Anderson started off as a genuine tearaway right from the Burnley CC days. And even towards the end of his career, he was more than capable of 85mph + on a good day.
he is wayward and ineffective. This was evident at the Australia tour. If Pakistan plays 10 test matches a year, they cant give more than 2 games for a guy to prove himself.Sir, my point is not about AJ, my point is about the process. You give him 3 test matches on the trot with opportunities to bowl. If at the end, he’s wayward and ineffective, you can go ahead and give him feedback and send him to academy to fix the issue. Follow the process! He’s not my nephew or cousin.
All boring bowlers - have no interest in any of them.