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How does the present-day Jasprit Bumrah compare with the likes of Wasim Akram and Waqar Younis?

Stewie said:
The 80s and 90s and even 2000s had better test batting. The fab four of today are nowhere close to them. Your views reflect and betray your age. I will let you slide. Everybody is entitled to their own views. You are as well. In my eyes does not make it true though.
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I can't think of anyone outside Sachin/Lara in the 90s. 80s had total of 5 teams. But a very defensive era. No team other than West Indies had intention to win tests. Mostly ended in draws. 266 matches 122 draws. Partly because other than West Indies other sides did not have more than 1 or 2 good bowlers. Their 2nd change, 3rd change bowlers were very ordinary. So they just had to see off those bowlers. Compare that with current era. Last 10 years 420 matches just 58 draws.
 

jnaveen1980 said:
Generally these assessment is a combination of eye test and stat. Not just one. Former cricketers assess it is very difficult to face someone whose release point is that far outside the crease in any era.
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Yes, he will be very hard to face in any era.

I was making a different point. Poople talking about golden era, good teams, batting, ATG, etc miss one simple point. Taking account of everything if you are not stand out bowler in your own era then and many players are ahead of you then it's just illogical to push the same player to be better than stand out players of other eras.

Arguments like 10th best player of 90s should be better than the best player in current era holds no merit. It defies all logic.
 
Buffet said:
Yes, he will be very hard to face in any era.

I was making a different point. Poople talking about golden era, good teams, batting, ATG, etc miss one simple point. Taking account of everything if you are not stand out bowler in your own era then and many players are ahead of you then it's just illogical to push the same player to be better than stand out players of other eras.

Arguments like 10th best player of 90s should be better than the best player in current era holds no merit. It defies all logic.
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yea.. things change. mindset change. Also captains play a big role. I have a sense Indian spinners suddenly started underperforming under Rohit sharma because of defensive field set. I am glad Bumrah started his career under Kohli in Tests. He probably would have vanished under Rohit the captain. Kohli was the first one to push the concept of 4 fast bowlers overseas at the risk of lighter batting line up. It definitely set the tone. He led by example.

 
jnaveen1980 said:
I can't think of anyone outside Sachin/Lara in the 90s. 80s had total of 5 teams. But a very defensive era. No team other than West Indies had intention to win tests. Mostly ended in draws. 266 matches 122 draws. Partly because other than West Indies other sides did not have more than 1 or 2 good bowlers. Their 2nd change, 3rd change bowlers were very ordinary. So they just had to see off those bowlers. Compare that with current era. Last 10 years 420 matches just 58 draws.
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The question is just not of the 90s. Wasim bowled in the 80s and played against the mighty West Indies as well.

You have Viv, Haynes, Greenidge, Richardson, Gavasker, Border, Gooch, Gower, Crowe, Gatting, and so many others
90s had people like Lara, Tendulkar, Taylor, the Waughs, Alec Stewart, Athers, Azharuddin, the south African of those early years who did not get to play enough test cricket to have legendary stats but everybody agrees they were right up there.

You cannot compare any of these people with your "fab 4" of today many of whom go years without scoring centuries. Yes I am talking about Smith and Kohli. Quite frankly its laughable to think test match batting that Bhumra is bowling to these days is superior to some of the names I mentioned above.

And the point you mentioned is actually going against you. They were extremely proper defensive batsmen who did not give away their wickets. I don't see how that proves your point. bHUMRAH is bowling against batsmen who have been ruined by T20 cricket and try to play crap like "bazball" these days. I rest my case
 
Stewie said:
The question is just not of the 90s. Wasim bowled in the 80s and played against the mighty West Indies as well.

You have Viv, Haynes, Greenidge, Richardson, Gavasker, Border, Gooch, Gower, Crowe, Gatting, and so many others
90s had people like Lara, Tendulkar, Taylor, the Waughs, Alec Stewart, Athers, Azharuddin, the south African of those early years who did not get to play enough test cricket to have legendary stats but everybody agrees they were right up there.

You cannot compare any of these people with your "fab 4" of today many of whom go years without scoring centuries. Yes I am talking about Smith and Kohli.
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There is some argument which you can discuss and there is some argument like this. It's futile to argue with views like this.

I did not see 80s, but I saw entire 90s. Smith is comfortably among the best 3 test batsman in the last 35 years. It's not even close. Stewart, Athers, Azharuddin ... can't be compared.

Smith would walk into pretty much all time XI of every single country.
Kohli will walk into all teams playing in 80s and 90s.
 
Stewie said:
The question is just not of the 90s. Wasim bowled in the 80s and played against the mighty West Indies as well.

You have Viv, Haynes, Greenidge, Richardson, Gavasker, Border, Gooch, Gower, Crowe, Gatting, and so many others
90s had people like Lara, Tendulkar, Taylor, the Waughs, Alec Stewart, Athers, Azharuddin, the south African of those early years who did not get to play enough test cricket to have legendary stats but everybody agrees they were right up there.

You cannot compare any of these people with your "fab 4" of today many of whom go years without scoring centuries. Yes I am talking about Smith and Kohli. Quite frankly its laughable to think test match batting that Bhumra is bowling to these days is superior to some of the names I mentioned above.
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Steve waugh has 32 centuries in 260 innings. Kohli has 30 centuries in 205 innings. How is that not comparable? Harry Brook has 8 centuries in the first 23 tests. How many from the 80s/90s could do that.

highest-batting-averages-in-mens-tests-minimum-20-innings-v0-t8sgp7d0a55e1.jpeg
 
The centuries in this era are much more result-oriented centuries than the centuries from the 80s era. There were only few occasions teams actually pushed for win in the 80s aggressively. One Tied test Australia vs India where they made a challenging declaration. Then West Indies a few times. Most of the other sides were content with draw. Especially India and Pakistan matches were littered with draws.
 
mazkhan said:
Shoaib akhtar was banned a few times for his action he was properly tested and his arm was genuinely found to have hyperextension

No such test was done on bhaji , ashwin or bumrah

Have an independent body test his biomechanics and match action then we'll find out if he has genuine physical hyperextension and is it within the 15 degrees .

Ajmal was tested and he had no hyperextension he was just a plain chucker
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Bhajji was tested. He stopped bowling his doosra.

Ajmal was called out by experts on TV.

Now a days experts know about hyperextension. Its not a unknown quantity now. You have ultra slow motion cameras. Umpires can watch replays and call the bowler.
 
Stewie said:
The question is just not of the 90s. Wasim bowled in the 80s and played against the mighty West Indies as well.

You have Viv, Haynes, Greenidge, Richardson, Gavasker, Border, Gooch, Gower, Crowe, Gatting, and so many others
90s had people like Lara, Tendulkar, Taylor, the Waughs, Alec Stewart, Athers, Azharuddin, the south African of those early years who did not get to play enough test cricket to have legendary stats but everybody agrees they were right up there.

You cannot compare any of these people with your "fab 4" of today many of whom go years without scoring centuries. Yes I am talking about Smith and Kohli. Quite frankly its laughable to think test match batting that Bhumra is bowling to these days is superior to some of the names I mentioned above.

And the point you mentioned is actually going against you. They were extremely proper defensive batsmen who did not give away their wickets. I don't see how that proves your point. bHUMRAH is bowling against batsmen who have been ruined by T20 cricket and try to play crap like "bazball" these days. I rest my case
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I fully expect Indian posters to post all sorts of manipulated stats to show Bumrah is the best bowler of all time.

:qdkcheeky
 
Bumrah is a strike bowler. It makes him a great match winner

Among the winning matchces (minimum 100 wickets).. He has the second best strike rate. Only behind Rabada who gets to bowl a lot in SA

Screenshot-2024-12-13-102257.jpg
 
Buffet said:
Agree. Intangibles are hard to quantify.

To get around this issue of players having different advanatges/disadvantages in different eras, it would be better idea to see if you stand out in your era as long as we are talkign about competetive era with good 3-4 teams.

Standing out against peers tells a story. Otherwise we may start labeling 10th best bowler of one generation above the best bowler of another generation based on intagibles and that makes no sense.
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Yeah - Bumrah is a stand out bowler for this era for sure. He deserves all the plaudits and praise.
 
Bumrah bowls in the era of DRS unlike a waqar who would have gotten away with a lot of outs that were umpire howlers...
 
Wasim Warne Tendulkar these players and their performance cannot be quantified in stats alone. They brought their genius to the field. Opposition will be so focussed on containing them that someone from the other end will benefit.

Bumrah isn't in Wasim Akrams league. Not yet atleast.

But Waqar Younis isn't Wasim Akram. Not by a long distance. Performance wise Bumrah is ahead of Waqar but Waqar has longevity on his side.

Bumrah needs 300 test wickets and another ICC World Cup to be counted among the ATGs.
 
cricketjoshila said:
Wasim Warne Tendulkar these players and their performance cannot be quantified in stats alone. They brought their genius to the field. Opposition will be so focussed on containing them that someone from the other end will benefit.

Bumrah isn't in Wasim Akrams league. Not yet atleast.

But Waqar Younis isn't Wasim Akram. Not by a long distance. Performance wise Bumrah is ahead of Waqar but Waqar has longevity on his side.

Bumrah needs 300 test wickets and another ICC World Cup to be counted among the ATGs.
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But the way he is going Bumrah is up there with the names you mentioned, he is on track IMO to be the 2nd best pacer to come out of Asia and he could surpass Wasim if he gets 300+ test wickets at an average of lower than 24 and also has a good WC finals performance. His record in Australia is the best out of any visiting Asian pacer with more than 20+ wickets
 
Wasim Akram is a slight underachiever himself in Tests. He has picked a lot of tailender wickets otherwise he was not a once in a generational test bowler himself. He was great in ODIs though and having won the WC in 1992, he certainly make a strong case as one of the best across all formats.

Purely in Tests, Ambrose and McGrath were standouts from his era. He was #3 tied with Donald.
 
Ab Fan said:
Wasim Akram is a slight underachiever himself in Tests. He has picked a lot of tailender wickets otherwise he was not a once in a generational test bowler himself. He was great in ODIs though and having won the WC in 1992, he certainly make a strong case as one of the best across all formats.

Purely in Tests, Ambrose and McGrath were standouts from his era. He was #3 tied with Donald.
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For the talent he had Wasim defo achieved he should have got close to 500 test wickets, he also had to battle with diabeties
 
cricketjoshila said:
Bumrah needs 300 test wickets and another ICC World Cup to be counted among the ATGs.
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Why such an unrealistic condition for modern era players?

Ignoring minnows , here are entire history of test cricket with sub 25 avg with 300 wickets.

1734113512566.png

Not a single bowler in this list played all 3 formats let alone being top dog in all 3 formats.


-------------------------------


As far as stepping up in ICC WC games is concerned

Entire history of ODI WC - Cutting it off at Wasim intentionally to avoid making it too long and he was one of the best all format bowlers.


1734114501397.png

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In T20: No need to list anything, he is simply the best bowler in history of T20.


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Looking at this, asking for 300 tests wickets at a good output and winning another ICC WC is not too much for qualify as an ATG?

One format specialist like Marshall never did much in ICC WC - He is an ATG.
Handlee never won ICC WC for his team - He is an ATG
Donald never won ICC WC for his team - He is an ATG
Steyn did not win ICC WC for his team - He is an ATG


Wasim himself has ordinary record in WC outside of doing well in one final. You will be left with McGrath. I don't think we should be saying that unless you are McGrath you are not an ATG. That's too harsh a criterion.

-----------------------------------

In all 3 formats, he is alone at that level. But it will be unfair to discount players who played before T20, but we can see that we have just 5-6 pacers in history with good all around record in longer and shorter formats both. Bumrah is one of them.

If what you asking - 300 test wickets and one more ICC WC. if he does both at a good output, He will then go down as the best pacer in entire history. Worse case, the top 2-3 pacers with a bit of decline. That can't be a realistic cut off for an ATG.

Longevity is fine to question with 100 test wickets. But if you produce Marshall like output with 250 plus tests wickets and be the among the best in other two formats, then you belong in the top tier. If he calls it a day today then top 3 all format pacers in history and in tests much below.
 
Buffet said:
Why such an unrealistic condition for modern era players?

Ignoring minnows , here are entire history of test cricket with sub 25 avg with 300 wickets.

View attachment 148523

Not a single bowler in this list played all 3 formats let alone being top dog in all 3 formats.


-------------------------------


As far as stepping up in ICC WC games is concerned

Entire history of ODI WC - Cutting it off at Wasim intentionally to avoid making it too long and he was one of the best all format bowlers.


View attachment 148524

---------------------

In T20: No need to list anything, he is simply the best bowler in history of T20.


-------------------------------------------------------

Looking at this, asking for 300 tests wickets at a good output and winning another ICC WC is not too much for qualify as an ATG?

One format specialist like Marshall never did much in ICC WC - He is an ATG.
Handlee never won ICC WC for his team - He is an ATG
Donald never won ICC WC for his team - He is an ATG
Steyn did not win ICC WC for his team - He is an ATG


Wasim himself has ordinary record in WC outside of doing well in one final. You will be left with McGrath. I don't think we should be saying that unless you are McGrath you are not an ATG. That's too harsh a criterion.

-----------------------------------

In all 3 formats, he is alone at that level. But it will be unfair to discount players who played before T20, but we can see that we have just 5-6 pacers in history with good all around record in longer and shorter formats both. Bumrah is one of them.

If what you asking - 300 test wickets and one more ICC WC. if he does both at a good output, He will then go down as the best pacer in entire history. Worse case, the top 2-3 pacers with a bit of decline. That can't be a realistic cut off for an ATG.

Longevity is fine to question with 100 test wickets. But if you produce Marshall like output with 250 plus tests wickets and be the among the best in other two formats, then you belong in the top tier. If he calls it a day today then top 3 all format pacers in history and in tests much below.
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But then you got to take into account players before t20s played a lot of first class game and list A games ie Wasim Played over 150 first class games exc his test matches. Whereas players of today play a lot of t20s.
 
ikky47 said:
But then you got to take into account players before t20s played a lot of first class game and list A games ie Wasim Played over 150 first class games exc his test matches. Whereas players of today play a lot of t20s.
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Players today also play lots of T20 league games and some play lots of first class games as well.

Only international games counts for legacy as an internatonal cricketer. Not first class games or T20 leagues.
 
Buffet said:
Why such an unrealistic condition for modern era players?

Ignoring minnows , here are entire history of test cricket with sub 25 avg with 300 wickets.

View attachment 148523

Not a single bowler in this list played all 3 formats let alone being top dog in all 3 formats.


-------------------------------


As far as stepping up in ICC WC games is concerned

Entire history of ODI WC - Cutting it off at Wasim intentionally to avoid making it too long and he was one of the best all format bowlers.


View attachment 148524

---------------------

In T20: No need to list anything, he is simply the best bowler in history of T20.


-------------------------------------------------------

Looking at this, asking for 300 tests wickets at a good output and winning another ICC WC is not too much for qualify as an ATG?

One format specialist like Marshall never did much in ICC WC - He is an ATG.
Handlee never won ICC WC for his team - He is an ATG
Donald never won ICC WC for his team - He is an ATG
Steyn did not win ICC WC for his team - He is an ATG


Wasim himself has ordinary record in WC outside of doing well in one final. You will be left with McGrath. I don't think we should be saying that unless you are McGrath you are not an ATG. That's too harsh a criterion.

-----------------------------------

In all 3 formats, he is alone at that level. But it will be unfair to discount players who played before T20, but we can see that we have just 5-6 pacers in history with good all around record in longer and shorter formats both. Bumrah is one of them.

If what you asking - 300 test wickets and one more ICC WC. if he does both at a good output, He will then go down as the best pacer in entire history. Worse case, the top 2-3 pacers with a bit of decline. That can't be a realistic cut off for an ATG.

Longevity is fine to question with 100 test wickets. But if you produce Marshall like output with 250 plus tests wickets and be the among the best in other two formats, then you belong in the top tier. If he calls it a day today then top 3 all format pacers in history and in tests much below.
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Steyn is an ATG for his test exploits . Nobody considers him even close to a white ball great. Mc Grath and Wasim are far greater white ball bowlers due to their records and ODI worldcup win. Bumrah if he can win the worldcup trophy can join that company or surpass those folks. In Test matches if he can maintain a level of performance and take around 300 wickets he would be up there with the best ever.
 
Completely different era's now

Three major factors:
1. Much more bowler friendly pitches
2. Technique and patience of batsmen has depleted
3. The most important factor - DRS

Those 3 factors have made a huge difference for Bumrah
 
Barragan said:
Completely different era's now

Three major factors:
1. Much more bowler friendly pitches
2. Technique and patience of batsmen has depleted
3. The most important factor - DRS

Those 3 factors have made a huge difference for Bumrah
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I was watching highlights of a Waqar bowling spell vs Windies back in the early 90s. So many plumb LBWs not given. Now we have DRS.
 
Bumrah is the best bowler in the world right now and that's what matters. He is also the best fast-bowler that India has ever produced. As far as his legacy is concerned, that will be judged once his career is over. Let's leave it at that.
 
ethan hunt said:
Steyn is an ATG for his test exploits . Nobody considers him even close to a white ball great. Mc Grath and Wasim are far greater white ball bowlers due to their records and ODI worldcup win. Bumrah if he can win the worldcup trophy can join that company or surpass those folks. In Test matches if he can maintain a level of performance and take around 300 wickets he would be up there with the best ever.
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So we have two names in 55 years who are great in test and ODI both? How many we can have who will be great in all 3 formats? One?

I was not debating Bumrah equalling or surpassing previous greats. That's a different issue.

I was simply arguing that we shouldn't be keeping criterion like 300 tests wickets with great output( it applies to mostly test era specialists) or winning ODI WC with sustained good performance in ODI WC( 2-3 players will have it )

As I said earlier if you are top dog for 8-10 years in all formats played during your era, you simply go down as an ATG for me because that's mighty hard thing to do given only 50-60 years of competetive cricket.

As far as actual ranking goes, it gets harder. When they are in different tiers, it's easy to say that one player is above without waiting for entire career. But when you compare with best of the bests then only option is to wait till the career of player is done. For example, Bumrah can call it a day now, I will rate him above many players despite having less wickets. Some one else may differ from my opinion and that's fine. But I don't see any reaosn to not call a player an ATG in cricket if player dominates all formats for 8-10 years given how hard it is.

As I player, I do rate one format specialist lower for sure. It does not make sense to rate them at the same level. We shouldn't apply one format specialist filter for any modern era players dominating all formats at the same time.
 
Pakpak said:
I was watching highlights of a Waqar bowling spell vs Windies back in the early 90s. So many plumb LBWs not given. Now we have DRS.
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💯

Just watch the highlights and you'll see many decisions worthy of a wicket not given

Wasim and Waqar would have so many more wickets to their name with DRS
 
He has surpassed Waqar already but still behind Wasim. Let’s see how he ends his career and whether he comes near Wasim or not.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Bumrah is the best bowler in the world right now and that's what matters. He is also the best fast-bowler that India has ever produced. As far as his legacy is concerned, that will be judged once his career is over. Let's leave it at that.
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Better than Cummins ?
 
Buffet said:
So we have two names in 55 years who are great in test and ODI both? How many we can have who will be great in all 3 formats? One?

I was not debating Bumrah equalling or surpassing previous greats. That's a different issue.

I was simply arguing that we shouldn't be keeping criterion like 300 tests wickets with great output( it applies to mostly test era specialists) or winning ODI WC with sustained good performance in ODI WC( 2-3 players will have it )

As I said earlier if you are top dog for 8-10 years in all formats played during your era, you simply go down as an ATG for me because that's mighty hard thing to do given only 50-60 years of competetive cricket.

As far as actual ranking goes, it gets harder. When they are in different tiers, it's easy to say that one player is above without waiting for entire career. But when you compare with best of the bests then only option is to wait till the career of player is done. For example, Bumrah can call it a day now, I will rate him above many players despite having less wickets. Some one else may differ from my opinion and that's fine. But I don't see any reaosn to not call a player an ATG in cricket if player dominates all formats for 8-10 years given how hard it is.

As I player, I do rate one format specialist lower for sure. It does not make sense to rate them at the same level. We shouldn't apply one format specialist filter for any modern era players dominating all formats at the same time.
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You're a quality poster, one of the best here but I disagree with you totally.

You can't say: "for Waqar vs Bumrah we have to look at whether a player across a different era how did he rank across his peers, as Waqar wasn't the best of his era"

This logic doesn't work at all.

Holyfield wasn't the best of his era but would wipe the floor with almost every heavyweight today. Pires wasn't the best of his era but would walk into every single PL team today.


And so on and so on.

I'd also like for Bumrah to be tested like Akhtar and Murali did. Not only me saying it but saw a podcast where even Travis Head was mocking and questioning whether he chucks before changing the topic.
 
In terms of impact in Test cricket, Bumrah edges Wasim Akram also. Waqar is not even in contention due to minnow bashing.

Bumrah has multiple memorable performances in Australia, England and South Africa.

The only thing that maybe stopping Bumrah is that he doesn’t have a ODI WC Final performance in winning cause when compared to McGrath or Wasim. But he has dominated a T20I WC and that should not be ignored.
 
big_gamer007 said:
He has surpassed Waqar already but still behind Wasim. Let’s see how he ends his career and whether he comes near Wasim or not.
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Surpassed Waqar based on what ?, let him take 300 wickets then we will talk . Also Waqar had the cleanest action , not Bumrah .
 
he is on record admitting to ball tampering. Don't go around comparing ball tampering bigot to the ATG like Marshall
 
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People here will not agree to it as it will mean an acceptance that a bowler from India which is considered land of trundlers have surpassed all their legends but deep down everyone knows Bumrah is easily the best fast bowler EVER from sub continent. If Bumrah was a Pakistani and Wasim/Waqar were Indians, this would no longer been a debate here.

First of all Waqar Younis should not even be in discussion lol and I think Bumrah is also better than Wasim/Imran. What he is doing now and the consistency with which he is doing is unreal. I have followed Wasim's career from mid 1996 onwards and he was an artist like none. But he was very effective with old ball and master of cleaning the tail...not so much with new ball and against top order. Bumrah had both the skills - new ball, old ball, yorker, slower, white ball cricket, red ball cricket, T20 format...you name it.

For me Sydney Barnes is to bowling what Bradman is for batting. They can never be surpassed.

But like Sachin is unanimously considered as the 2nd greatest batsman after Bradman, I think Bumrah will go down as 2nd greatest bowler of all time after Barnes.
 
- Five wicket haul at MCG.
- Five wicket haul at Perth.
- Five wicket haul at Gabba.
- Five wicket haul at Nottingham.
- Five wicket haul at Nottingham.
- Five wicket haul at Joburg.
- Five wicket haul at Capetown.
- Five wicket haul at Capetown.

ONE & ONLY JASPRIT BUMRAH 🐐


:bumrah
 
BouncerGuy said:
Bumrah is great but not as great as Wasim atm.

Wasim will enter any playing 11 made today. Bumrah still has some steps left to go up.
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Wasim will enter playing XI's because he is a left arm bowler. Had he been right handed... his inclusion would be debatable.

I cant think of any other left arm pacer who can replace him (all-time)
 
Bhaijaan said:
- Five wicket haul at MCG.
- Five wicket haul at Perth.
- Five wicket haul at Gabba.
- Five wicket haul at Nottingham.
- Five wicket haul at Nottingham.
- Five wicket haul at Joburg.
- Five wicket haul at Capetown.
- Five wicket haul at Capetown.

ONE & ONLY JASPRIT BUMRAH 🐐


:bumrah
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To add to that, he also won the T20 WC for India this time single handedly.

He he is not a one format bowler like Steyn or Anderson.

This is where his greatness lies that he being equally good in all codes of the game. He is carrying Indian cricket on his shoulders alone like SRT did in 90s.

I just hope after this test series, India don't play him until summer when we go to England for 5 match test series. We have enough bowlers for white ball cricket, including for tournaments like CT.

I also hope Ambanis think wisely and rest him for IPL.
 
Bumrah is better than any Pakistan pacers in history of world cricket .

He still has 4-5 years left and most likely he will finish with 330-350 test wickets
:kp
 
BouncerGuy said:
Bumrah is great but not as great as Wasim atm.

Wasim will enter any playing 11 made today. Bumrah still has some steps left to go up.
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Bumrah doesn't even have 200 Test wickets.

He needs to get more wickets and show more longevity before he can be compared to ATG pacers.
 
sweep_shot said:
Bumrah doesn't even have 200 Test wickets.

He needs to get more wickets and show more longevity before he can be compared to ATG pacers.
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He will do it by the end of his career, don't worry.

But he has shown so far that is the best bowler by far (not even marginal) than everyone else across all formats - avg, strike rate everything.

He single handedly won us the T20 wc this year and got 55 wickets in test cricket at an average of around 15. All of this in one single year with few more days still left.

If he is not an ATG then it is either bias or your definition of ATG is all messed up.
 
Dair aye, durust aye. I am a bit surprised it took a big cricketing country this long to produce a real top bowler concidering all the money and facilities they have. And Bumrah seems like a genuinly good guy. Well done.
 
Comparing This feeble era of test Cricket, to the Golden periods is completely delusional, so I won't bother comparing a guy with a dodgy action to any past Great.
 
aboveandbeyond said:
Comparing This feeble era of test Cricket, to the Golden periods is completely delusional, so I won't bother comparing a guy with a dodgy action to any past Great.
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People compare Root with Tendulkar and Smith with Ponting. So that time cross era comparison is fine.

Just bcoz Bumrah is better statistically than all bowlers of the past from Pakistan, suddenly test cricket is feeble in modern era. LOL

If anything, test cricket has improved due to the overall modernization of the game where batters are more attacking in nature. In the so called Golden era, there used to be meaningless draws series after series.
 
Rajdeep said:
People compare Root with Tendulkar and Smith with Ponting. So that time cross era comparison is fine.

Just bcoz Bumrah is better statistically than all bowlers of the past from Pakistan, suddenly test cricket is feeble in modern era. LOL

If anything, test cricket has improved due to the overall modernization of the game where batters are more attacking in nature. In the so called Golden era, there used to be meaningless draws series after series.
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I agree. Comparing Root to the likes of Sachin, Lara, inzi , ponting is a joke.

Hence, I find it laughable people are now comparing Bumrah to past Greats who performed in a proper era of Test cricket
 
aboveandbeyond said:
I agree. Comparing Root to the likes of Sachin, Lara, inzi , ponting is a joke.

Hence, I find it laughable people are now comparing Bumrah to past Greats who performed in a proper era of Test cricket
Click to expand...
There is nothing wrong with modern era of test cricket. It is just a natural modernization of the game that happened where batsman take more risks and we see more result oriented games. In the past, series after series used to be draws.

The comparison with Root and Tendulkar is absurd not due to modern test era being poor but bcoz Root is only good in test cricket compared Sachin who was equally good in all formats of the game.

But that is not the case with Bumrah. He single handedly won India the WT20 this year and now has taken 55 test wickets this year with an avg of 15. His overall career avg and strike rate across all formats suggest he is better than all his predecessors.

I think you should stick with dodgy action excuse if you may as highlighting poor era of test cricket will not fly for an all format bowler like Bumrah.
 
moghul said:
Surpassed Waqar based on what ?, let him take 300 wickets then we will talk . Also Waqar had the cleanest action , not Bumrah .
Click to expand...

He has overtaken Waqar on every metric, he plays 3 formats and is top bowler in all 3 formats. Waqar never reached that feat.

Bumrah has never been tested, just because you think he doesn’t have a clean action that doesn’t mean anything. He is free to play as per ICC rules and his records and legacy will continue just like Muralis. Jealous people can cry about it all day b it it won’t change anything.
 
Rajdeep said:
To add to that, he also won the T20 WC for India this time single handedly.

He he is not a one format bowler like Steyn or Anderson.

This is where his greatness lies that he being equally good in all codes of the game. He is carrying Indian cricket on his shoulders alone like SRT did in 90s.

I just hope after this test series, India don't play him until summer when we go to England for 5 match test series. We have enough bowlers for white ball cricket, including for tournaments like CT.

I also hope Ambanis think wisely and rest him for IPL.
Click to expand...
Two breathtaking spells in West Indies. 6 for 27 & 5 for 7 in 2019.
 
Bhaijaan said:
- Five wicket haul at MCG.
- Five wicket haul at Perth.
- Five wicket haul at Gabba.
- Five wicket haul at Nottingham.
- Five wicket haul at Nottingham.
- Five wicket haul at Joburg.
- Five wicket haul at Capetown.
- Five wicket haul at Capetown.

ONE & ONLY JASPRIT BUMRAH 🐐


:bumrah
Click to expand...
Add 5 for 7 at Northsound
and 6 for 27 at Kingston
 
Rajdeep said:
There is nothing wrong with modern era of test cricket. It is just a natural modernization of the game that happened where batsman take more risks and we see more result oriented games. In the past, series after series used to be draws.

The comparison with Root and Tendulkar is absurd not due to modern test era being poor but bcoz Root is only good in test cricket compared Sachin who was equally good in all formats of the game.

But that is not the case with Bumrah. He single handedly won India the WT20 this year and now has taken 55 test wickets this year with an avg of 15. His overall career avg and strike rate across all formats suggest he is better than all his predecessors.

I think you should stick with dodgy action excuse if you may as highlighting poor era of test cricket will not fly for an all format bowler like Bumrah.
Click to expand...
Do you seriously think that guy is arguing seriously? It is the duplicate id of another poster. Don't waste time talking to trolls.
 
Bumrah is already ahead of Wasim.Waqar/Imran when it comes to performances in SENAW nations.

Screenshot 2024-12-15 190455.png
 
DeadlyVenom said:
Wasim - Messi
Waqar - Ronaldo
Bumrah - Sunil Chhetri

Modern football comparisons. All trail blazers.
Click to expand...

Pre-Ajay Jadeja Waqar was a great bowler. One of the best ever and almost in Bumrah, Marshal's league.
 
Bharat-Pakistan best pace bowlers in respective SENAW nations (min. 20 wickets) :-


In ENGLAND

Screenshot 2024-12-15 191402.png



In Australia

Screenshot 2024-12-15 191548.png


In South Africa

Screenshot 2024-12-15 191725.png




In West Indies, Bumrah averages 9 something in 2 tests

In New Zealand, Bumrah has again played 2 tests averaging 47 with the ball


 
Bhaijaan said:
Bharat-Pakistan best pace bowlers in respective SENAW nations (min. 20 wickets) :-


In ENGLAND

View attachment 148582



In Australia

View attachment 148583


In South Africa

View attachment 148584




In West Indies, Bumrah averages 9 something in 2 tests

In New Zealand, Bumrah has again played 2 tests averaging 47 with the ball
Click to expand...
These stats are glaring.

I wonder how can people even argue Bumrah is not the best seamer ever from Asia especially in SENA countries.
 
Rajdeep said:
These stats are glaring.

I wonder how can people even argue Bumrah is not the best seamer ever from Asia especially in SENA countries.
Click to expand...

Easy. The current Era of Test cricket is like The " Farmers League" Standards.
Truly Awful. Any sign of seam and swing, or spin, the teams fold like a pack of cards. Even Jimmy Anderson from the age of 35 - 41yeaes was one of the best in the world. That for me says everything, even though no disrespect to Jimmy Anderson.

My top 5 best ever subcontinent seam bowlers in tests.

1. Imran
2. Wasim
3.waqar
4. Kapil
5. Asif
 
Bhaijaan said:
Bumrah is already ahead of Wasim.Waqar/Imran when it comes to performances in SENAW nations.
Click to expand...

Since the thread is about Bumrah, Wasim and Waqar. When it comes to performance in SENAW

Bumrah - Avg 20.04 SR 44 10 5-fers

Big Gap

Wasim - Avg 24.65 SR 56 13 5-fers

Big Gap

Waqar - Avg 28.39 SR 52 5-fers 7
 
aboveandbeyond said:
Easy. The current Era of Test cricket is like The " Farmers League" Standards.
Truly Awful. Any sign of seam and swing, or spin, the teams fold like a pack of cards. Even Jimmy Anderson from the age of 35 - 41yeaes was one of the best in the world. That for me says everything, even though no disrespect to Jimmy Anderson.

My top 5 best ever subcontinent seam bowlers in tests.

1. Imran
2. Wasim
3.waqar
4. Kapil
5. Asif
Click to expand...
That is your assumption but as I explained multiple times before hiding behind weak era is not helping your cause. You must stick to dodgy action theory, if you want to feel better.
 
aboveandbeyond said:
Easy. The current Era of Test cricket is like The " Farmers League" Standards.
Truly Awful. Any sign of seam and swing, or spin, the teams fold like a pack of cards.
Click to expand...

Yah, that's why we have 20 bowlers averaging below 25 when playing away from home in current era.

1734274147703.png
 
big_gamer007 said:
He has overtaken Waqar on every metric, he plays 3 formats and is top bowler in all 3 formats. Waqar never reached that feat.

Bumrah has never been tested, just because you think he doesn’t have a clean action that doesn’t mean anything. He is free to play as per ICC rules and his records and legacy will continue just like Muralis. Jealous people can cry about it all day b it it won’t change anything.
Click to expand...
If Bumrah was not Indian, either he had been banned for suspected action or at least was tested by an ICC panel. But the power BCCI possesses , no umpire will take chances on his IPL contract. You Indians are always jealous of Waqar as India most of the time was a loser playing against Pakistan during Waqar's era.
 
Devadwal said:
Bumrah is better than any Pakistan pacers in history of world cricket .

He still has 4-5 years left and most likely he will finish with 330-350 test wickets
:kp
Click to expand...
Good to see so many Indians on this forum.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
moghul said:
United Indian front against 2Ws , all other countries admire two Ws, but pinheads are always jealous.
Click to expand...
Truth is bitter and truth is Waqar and Wasim were biggest beneficiary of bottles caps . another truth is bumrah is already better than any Pakistani bowlers in history of world cricket and he still has 4-5 years left. :kp
 
Rajdeep said:
That is your assumption but as I explained multiple times before hiding behind weak era is not helping your cause. You must stick to dodgy action theory, if you want to feel better.
Click to expand...

No it isnt. T20 bashing, has killed the art of batting in all conditions. Facts.

Lack of preparations for test series. ( no warm up game's) because of constant T20 cricket around the world .

Congested fixtures list, meaning batsman not getting the chance to hone on their skills in tough conditions.

with this, we get sitting ducks, unless absolute Roads.
 
Buffet said:
Since the thread is about Bumrah, Wasim and Waqar. When it comes to performance in SENAW

Bumrah - Avg 20.04 SR 44 10 5-fers

Big Gap

Wasim - Avg 24.65 SR 56 13 5-fers

Big Gap

Waqar - Avg 28.39 SR 52 5-fers 7
Click to expand...
Wasim and waqar played against high quality bats
 
Bhaijaan said:
Bharat-Pakistan best pace bowlers in respective SENAW nations (min. 20 wickets) :-
Click to expand...

Why limit it to SENAW? You can take all non-minnows away despite Bumrah not playing against some bottom teams.


Gap in output between Bumrah and Wasim = Gap between Wasim and Shami in away games.

I don't think gap was in skills. Wasim had all skills but less impact than Bumrah. I don't think gap is output is as big as suggested in these numbers as well, beause I saw Wasim's entire career. But I am comfortable to rate Bumrah as the best away bowlers among all Asian pacers.


People talk about longevity, but look at number of 5-fers by Bumrah. So many 5-fers in away games with such a large gap from others in Avg and SR. Most 5-fers have come in match changing spells. Bumrah can pick 70 more wickets at avg of 35 and yet have same avg of Wasim in away games. Should we wait for longevity of 70 more away wickets at avg of 35 to rate Bumrah in away games? I would say, it would be silly. Bumrah is the best Asian pacer when playing away. He does not need to do anything more.


Away against non-minnows: Top 5 Asian pacers with 100 plus wickets.

1734274572529.png

.....
 
moghul said:
in your dreams, any official ban by ICC ? or made up by some jealous Indians like you.
Click to expand...
:ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:

www.espncricinfo.com

Waqar first to be fined for ball tampering

Colombo, July 10: Pakistan's paceman, Waqar Younis, became the first player ever at the Test and International level to be suspended and fined for tampering the ball during the match against South Africa, under the ICC Code of Conduct
www.espncricinfo.com www.espncricinfo.com
 
aboveandbeyond said:
Yes. Playing against sitting ducks, when snyvsign of seam and swing, spin, they fold like a pack of cards
Click to expand...

All bowlers are bowling in the same era and in same conditions. It's actualyl very hard thing to do, history is witness to it. If sitting ducks was reason then we should have seen tons of bowlers in current era appearing in this list.

Entire list of Sub 25 away avg of pacers in history.

Less than 15 pacers have averaged sub 25 in entire history. Only one from current era and only two from Asia. It's very hard to do in any era.

1734276379497.png
 
aboveandbeyond said:
Wasim and waqar played against high quality bats
Click to expand...

It's always hard to measure intangibles. But,

Where did they stand against their peers when playing away? -- Near the bottom.
Where Bumrah stands against his peers when playing away? --- Top by some margin.

Relative position against peers, simply raw numbers & impact -- Bumrah blows away all Asian pacers when playing away.



Relative performance of Wasim, Waqar against peer group when playing away

1734276989666.png
 
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