How good was the Pakistan team of the 2000s?

[HappyWarsFan]

As I'm a younger fan who has only seen the very late 2000s (I started in 2009) and and 2010s decade of Pakistan cricket, I would like to hear how highly you guys rated the 2000s team in tests and ODIs. Were they a mediocre team but still better? From what I see test results weren't amazing but Test wins in SA and NZ stand out to me.

ODI team also seemed to have a lot of good ODI wins, but interested hearing a general overview.

 

[HappyWarsFan]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION]
Interested in your thoughts, please share if you wish.

 

[Rayyman]

In the 2000s, every team was equal, besides Australia who were way better than everybody.

Now, England, India and New Zealand have improved substantially to make a clear-cut Top 4.

Pakistan were mediocre in the 2000s, and are mediocre now.

I would say the bowling is the same. Back then you had three world-class bowlers in Akhtar, Gul and Asif. Now they have Amir, Shaheen, Abbas and Yasir. And some really good young bowlers. So back then the bowling was carried by a few stars, now I would say there are not any great bowlers, but there is a plethora of decent fast bowlers. So more depth now.

As for batting, in Tests, Pakistan has regressed. Going from Inzamam, Yousuf and Younis to guys like Azhar, Asad and Fawad. But in white ball cricket, Pakistan has improved their batting a lot. Imam ul-Haq already has more ODI hundreds than Kamran Akmal who has opened in over twice as many innings. Babar Azam is on his way to becoming Pakistan's greatest ODI batsman. Already has more hundreds than Inzi, YK and Malik at a higher SR and average. Imad Wasim averages 40-odd at a 100+ SR, much more reliable than Afridi as a finisher.

In a nutshell, Pakistan has improved in white ball cricket, setting the world record for most T20I series wins in a row, and winning the 2017 Champions Trophy. But they have regressed in red ball cricket, largely due the sub-standard pitches in 1st-class cricket which did not allow batsman to score (this has been fixed).

Expect the Pakistani domestic system to improve now with the regional teams, but for the international side to reach the top, there needs to be a change in selection policies.

 

[Ab Fan]

Pakistan team in 2000s were good in Asia because of trio of Inzy, Yousuf and Younis.

However, outside Asia, they were nowhere close to what they were in 90s and hence on an overall basis, they were behind Australia, India, England, South Africa and Sri Lanka.

 

[MMHS]

2000s is a long period and for PAK cricket, it was the decade of transformation. I don’t think in any other decade the composition of a team changed that much.

I think, at the start of the decade, PAK was still among the top teams, may not be as good as Australia but they were competitive with every other top teams and dominant against lower teams. That the the time, when the club of “very good team” was quite rich - SRL, NZ & WI were still in touch of rest of the pack trying to catch Aussies. In that time, still PAK did beat SAF at home but lost to Poms at home as well and exchanged series with SRL.

By the end of the decade, PAK & WIN declined most over 10 years period and PAK was clearly behind Australia, India, SAF, probably SRL as well and may be at per with NZ & ENG, may be WIN had fallen behind by now. But, still the gap with top bunch wasn’t that wide like what it is right now. However, a new format of cricket was introduced- T20 and undoubtedly till 2010, PAK was the best T20 team of those initial 3-4 years and I am sure if T20 was introduced in 2000, PAK would have been among top 1-2 teams in early 2000s as well.

Individually, the star power was the biggest difference. Between 2000-10, I don’t think there will be a single year where at least one PAK player failed to make the annual XI both in ODI & Test. And there were some outstanding individual achievements.

I’ll end it like this - if I make an All Time PAK squad of 23 covering all 3 formats - at least 11 of the players played in that decade of 2000-10 : Saeed, Inzi, MoYo, YK, Wasim, WY, Shoaib, Saq, Latif, ARazzak & Afridi; arguably Asif can find a place as well. If I do the same stressing up to 2020 - only 1 additional player might sneak into that 23, excluding Ajmal - Babar Azam...... that’s a landslide decline.

 

[Ab Fan]

2000s is a long period and for PAK cricket, it was the decade of transformation. I don’t think in any other decade the composition of a team changed that much.

I think, at the start of the decade, PAK was still among the top teams, may not be as good as Australia but they were competitive with every other top teams and dominant against lower teams. That the the time, when the club of “very good team” was quite rich - SRL, NZ & WI were still in touch of rest of the pack trying to catch Aussies. In that time, still PAK did beat SAF at home but lost to Poms at home as well and exchanged series with SRL.

By the end of the decade, PAK & WIN declined most over 10 years period and PAK was clearly behind Australia, India, SAF, probably SRL as well and may be at per with NZ & <B>ENG</B>, may be WIN had fallen behind by now. But, still the gap with top bunch wasn’t that wide like what it is right now. However, a new format of cricket was introduced- T20 and undoubtedly till 2010, PAK was the best T20 team of those initial 3-4 years and I am sure if T20 was introduced in 2000, PAK would have been among top 1-2 teams in early 2000s as well.

Individually, the star power was the biggest difference. Between 2000-10, I don’t think there will be a single year where at least one PAK player failed to make the annual XI both in ODI & Test. And there were some outstanding individual achievements.

I’ll end it like this - if I make an All Time PAK squad of 23 covering all 3 formats - at least 11 of the players played in that decade of 2000-10 : Saeed, Inzi, MoYo, YK, Wasim, WY, Shoaib, Saq, Latif, ARazzak & Afridi; arguably Asif can find a place as well. If I do the same stressing up to 2020 - only 1 additional player might sneak into that 23, excluding Ajmal - Babar Azam...... that’s a landslide decline.

England were a top team in 2000s. Aside of the Ashes win, there were wins in Sri Lanka and Pakistan under Hussain and win in SA as well in 2004. Certainly better than both SL and Pak and at same level to India and SA.

 

[MMHS]

England were a top team in 2000s. Aside of the Ashes win, there were wins in Sri Lanka and Pakistan under Hussain and win in SA as well in 2004. Certainly better than both SL and Pak and at same level to India and SA.

May be, but they lost a series to PAK in PAK. But yes, they did win an Ashes against that Australia team so may be they were better than PAK by the mid of 2000.

 

[RyanRyan10]

They had better players in their line up than the team of 2010s. But most of them were at decline. A mediocre side which lost quite often at home with a couple of impressive performances away. In Odis, they were better in bilateral series but had 2 poor WCs. I feel late 90s had started the downfall Pakistan team and it continued in the 2000s

Australia dominated the decade, were challenged in last 2 years

SA were the 2md most consistent side with a couple of bad years in 2003 & 2004.

SRL were the best Asian side at that time. Had 2 very good WC outings.

India improved. They had their ups and downs till the late 2000s when they were probably the best team in the world.

Eng also improved and had some memorable wins. Good in tests, average in odis.

NZ was another side which showed improvement byt they had their downfall towards late 2000s.

WI just kept going down. 2004 CT was one of the few positive results for them.

Zim got Mugabe-ed after showing some promise. BD got their test status and even then they would lose to associates but by the end of the decade they had overtaken Zimbabwe.

My rankings for teams:

1. Australia
2. South Africa
3. Sri Lanka
4. India
5. England
6. Pakistan
7. New Zealand
8. West Indies
9. Bangladesh
10. Zimbabwe
11. Kenya
12. Ireland
13. Netherlands
14. Canada
And so on....

 

[Ab Fan]

May be, but they lost a series to PAK in PAK. But yes, they did win an Ashes against that Australia team so may be they were better than PAK by the mid of 2000.

England were better than Sri Lanka also and equal to India and South Africa during that decade. I guess even SA lost to Pak in Pak around 2004.

In terms of W/L in 2000s,

Australia- 4+
SA- 1.65
Ind- 1.48
Eng- 1.48
SL- 1.41
Pak- 0.96
NZ- 0.70
WI- 0.30

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...2000;spanval2=span;template=results;type=team

 

[Varun]

My rankings for teams:

1. Australia
2. South Africa
3. Sri Lanka
4. India
5. England
6. Pakistan
7. New Zealand
8. West Indies
9. Bangladesh
10. Zimbabwe
11. Kenya
12. Ireland
13. Netherlands
14. Canada
And so on....

How were Lanka ahead of us? By the end of the decade we used to munch on them for breakfast!

 

[RyanRyan10]

How were Lanka ahead of us? By the end of the decade we used to munch on them for breakfast!

Overall, H2H is in our favour. But that's not the only criteria to judge two teams. SL were much better in big tournaments. They reached semifinal of 2003 WC and the final.of 2007 WC. They also won the two out of three Asia Cups held in 2000s, we won 0. SRL also beat us consistently in a few triseries played in 2000s. They were consistently a good one day side whereas we had our downfall in mid 2000s. In tests we were better though but only slightly.

 

[proud_pakistani]

The team of the 2000s can be distinctly defined by 3 eras. Pre 2003, Post 2003 which included Woolmer era which ended in 2007.

Until 2003 it was an ageing team which was up until a point performing well but towards the 2003 world cup lost its steam. Wasim, Waqar, Saeed Anwar were all ageing while guys like Younis and Youhana did not step up. Inzi too had a very poor world cup. The game against Australia was where we lost everything after starting brightly and picking up quick wickets. Symonds's 143 really broke us and we never recovered after that. A lot of people point towards the India game but mentally we were finished after the game against the Aussies.

Then we go to the Latif era which was basically a rebuilding phase and while should have been a long term captain Latif is largely remembered for the incident of claiming a catch which he had dropped. Pakistan went on to win the game but left a bad taste in the mouth.

Then came the era where Pakistan had some success which was under Inzi. He is considered one of the better captains we have had and him along with Woolmer pulled back Pakistan to being a top 3-4 team. Woolmer redefined the likes of Afridi and Malik. Gave them purpose which is why we got some success. Development of Younis Khan and Mohd Yousuf also was the most under Woolmer. Akhtar got back to his best in this time. Rana Naved and Mohd Asif also came in during this era. We should have done much better in the 2007 WC if it wasnt for the Akhtar and Asif fight and other injuries that caused us to take the likes of Azhar Mahmood to the WC. After 2007 again we began an era of rebuilding and Pakistan cricket under Malik. All in all you can say since 2003 we have been rebuilding. It was an average era for us being perhaps no. 5 or 6 on average in the rankings. This era's best parts came under Inzi and Woolmer and perhaps also the worst part with us not even crossing the group stages in 2007. Tbh since 2003 whenever it has seemed Pakistan is now coming back we have had a controversy which has pulled us back.

 

[RyanRyan10]

They had better players in their line up than the team of 2010s. But most of them were at decline. A mediocre side which lost quite often at home with a couple of impressive performances away. In Odis, they were better in bilateral series but had 2 poor WCs. I feel late 90s had started the downfall Pakistan team and it continued in the 2000s

Australia dominated the decade, were challenged in last 2 years

SA were the 2md most consistent side with a couple of bad years in 2003 & 2004.

SRL were the best Asian side at that time. Had 2 very good WC outings.

India improved. They had their ups and downs till the late 2000s when they were probably the best team in the world.

Eng also improved and had some memorable wins. Good in tests, average in odis.

NZ was another side which showed improvement byt they had their downfall towards late 2000s.

WI just kept going down. 2004 CT was one of the few positive results for them.

Zim got Mugabe-ed after showing some promise. BD got their test status and even then they would lose to associates but by the end of the decade they had overtaken Zimbabwe.

My rankings for teams:

1. Australia
2. South Africa
3. Sri Lanka
4. India
5. England
6. Pakistan
7. New Zealand
8. West Indies
9. Bangladesh
10. Zimbabwe
11. Kenya
12. Ireland
13. Netherlands
14. Canada
And so on....

Okay [MENTION=132715]Varun[/MENTION] I have changed my mind after revisiting the results. Will put India ahead of SRL.

India's achievements were much bigger than SRL's in test Cricket. India won series in Eng and NZ, also drew in Aus & once in Eng. SRL were awful in the SENA nations.

 

[Mamoon]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION]
Interested in your thoughts, please share if you wish.

MMHS summed it up well.

Until 2001-2002, Pakistan was a genuinely good side. Australia and South Africa were the top 2 sides, but Pakistan could compete and even dominate the rest.

After the 2003 World Cup debacle, Pakistan started its ascendency during the Inzamam-Woolmer era from 2004 onwards.

A young Kamran was a frightening prospect. Miles ahead of what Rizwan is today. Malik had a purple patch, Afridi was playing his best cricket with the bat and Salman Butt was a genuinely good young opener especially in ODI cricket.

In Test cricket, Younis turned his career around in India in 2005; Inzamam produced his best batting form and Mohammad Yousuf batted like an ATG in 2005-2006.

The bowling was hampered because of Akhtar and Asif’s antics, and Sami was beginning to show that he was not good enough for the top level, but fringe bowlers like Rana Naved, Iftikhar and Kaneria (Tests) did a decent job.

In 2006, Pakistan reached number 2 in ICC ODI rankings, and in 2005, Pakistan beat a strong England side in an ODI series, which was the talent time our “mercurial talents” won an ODI series against “soft Poms”.

The wheels came off in the 2007 World Cup. Pakistan flopped in difficult conditions against West Indies and Ireland and Woolmer died in dubious circumstances.

It was common knowledge that Younis will take over from Inzamam, but he backed out of captaincy at the last minute citing the excuse that he was disturbed with Woolmer’s death.

PCB, headed by Nasim Ashraf, made the fatal mistake of making Malik Test captain, which cost him in shorter formats as well. Lawson-Malik was a good combination in ODIs and T20Is.

In 2009, Younis agreed to become captain after overcoming Woolmer’s loss. He was an excellent captain tactically, but a disastrous man-manager.

He lost the dressing room within 9 months in spite of winning a trophy, and that period triggered a circus show that ended in October 2010 when Misbah was appointed captain.

That circus show including match-fixing, spot-fixing, fake injuries, ball-tampering, dressing room spats, PCB handing out life bans etc.

That is a brief summary of the story of Pakistan cricket in the 2000s.

 

[Mesozoic]

They were an average team for the most part of the 2000s.

Lost 5 bilateral series to India out of 8. (Won 2)

Awful performances at WC 2003 and 2007.

Terrible performances in Australia. (2004-05 and 2009-10).

But I think they got better towards the end of the decade especially in shorter formats. Made two WT20 finals, winning one and making it to the SF of the champions trophy.

 

[Varun]

Put another way, I'm sure Pakistan had the most (or 2nd most?) players between 2000 and 2010.

That should tell you the story. Constant churn that led to nowhere.

 

[Hasan123]

We had a lot of quality players in the 2000s and our rankings were decent for the most part. There was attitude issues and players didn't always get on. But that team had much more quality than what we have now and was more enjoyable than the team now. The 2000s was when Pakistan were genuinely unpredictable.

These days Pakistan are not unpredictable. They are predictabley average.

 

[Markhor]

The decade started badly with home Test defeats to Sri Lanka and England. Inconsistency blighted the early 2000s stemming from a reliance on ageing superstars, culminating in the disasterous 2003 World Cup.

There was a massive clearout afterwards, which contrary to what some say, was absolutely necessary. While they disappointed ultimately, there were high hopes that Shoaib Akhtar, Mohammad Sami, Umar Gul and Shabbir Ahmed could step into the shoes of the 2Ws. While losing Saeed Anwar was a blow, young Taufiq Umar, Salman Butt and Yasir Hameed were highly rated. Asim Kamal looked gritty. Danish Kaneria was backed to replace the ageing Mushtaqs. And results actually improved without the 1990s brigade.

I won't list all the results but we became a good bilateral series team. In Tests, we beat South Africa at home (our only Test series victory vs SAF) and New Zealand away. Under Bob Woolmer, we notably beat England and India in 2005/06, drew away in India with a fairly depleted attack, and beat a very good Sri Lanka team away.

There's no comparison between the ODI team today and back then. This ODI team could only dream of beating India away (that too from 2-0 down), beating England at home and drawing away (don't think even today's team would beat THAT weaker England ODI outfit) and being ranked 2nd.

The tragedy was ICC tournaments which Bob never cracked. I loved Bob but we were awful in all the multilateral tournaments from the 2004 Asia Cup, 2004 and 2006 Champions Trophy, and 2007 World Cup where he sadly died. A lot of those investments from Butt, Hameed, Kamal, Shabbir, Sami, Akhtar etc never kicked on for various reasons.

After that, I'd need an entire page just discussing the 2007-2010 period. The country was in meltdown and so was the cricket team.

 

[Rayyman]

The decade started badly with home Test defeats to Sri Lanka and England. Inconsistency blighted the early 2000s stemming from a reliance on ageing superstars, culminating in the disasterous 2003 World Cup.

There was a massive clearout afterwards, which contrary to what some say, was absolutely necessary. While they disappointed ultimately, there were high hopes that Shoaib Akhtar, Mohammad Sami, Umar Gul and Shabbir Ahmed could step into the shoes of the 2Ws. While losing Saeed Anwar was a blow, young Taufiq Umar, Salman Butt and Yasir Hameed were highly rated. Asim Kamal looked gritty. Danish Kaneria was backed to replace the ageing Mushtaqs. And results actually improved without the 1990s brigade.

I won't list all the results but we became a good bilateral series team. In Tests, we beat South Africa at home (our only Test series victory vs SAF) and New Zealand away. Under Bob Woolmer, we notably beat England and India in 2005/06, drew away in India with a fairly depleted attack, and beat a very good Sri Lanka team away.

There's no comparison between the ODI team today and back then. This ODI team could only dream of beating India away (that too from 2-0 down), beating England at home and drawing away (don't think even today's team would beat THAT weaker England ODI outfit) and being ranked 2nd.

The tragedy was ICC tournaments which Bob never cracked. I loved Bob but we were awful in all the multilateral tournaments from the 2004 Asia Cup, 2004 and 2006 Champions Trophy, and 2007 World Cup where he sadly died. A lot of those investments from Butt, Hameed, Kamal, Shabbir, Sami, Akhtar etc never kicked on for various reasons.

After that, I'd need an entire page just discussing the 2007-2010 period. The country was in meltdown and so was the cricket team.

Pakistan is a better ODI team now.

Bowling is a similar level, but that batting and especially fielding has improved.

I’d take a top 3 of Imam, Fakhar and Babar over Butt, Akmal and Younis any day.

Then u have gun fielders like Shadab, Imam, Babar, Rizwan and Fakhar.

Even the performances in the 2017 CT and 2019 WC prove this as opposed to the maulings that Pak. received in the 2003 and 2007 tournaments.

 

[Markhor]

Pakistan is a better ODI team now.

Bowling is a similar level, but that batting and especially fielding has improved.

I’d take a top 3 of Imam, Fakhar and Babar over Butt, Akmal and Younis any day.

Then u have gun fielders like Shadab, Imam, Babar, Rizwan and Fakhar.

Even the performances in the 2017 CT and 2019 WC prove this as opposed to the maulings that Pak. received in the 2003 and 2007 tournaments.

The same Pakistan that lost 4-1 in Australia, were whitewashed in New Zealand, beaten black and blue in the Asia Cup, lost to an average South African team, and lost 4-0 to England ? We are hardly competitive vs the top teams.

I'd take a middle order of Younis (okay in the mid-2000s in ODIs), Yousuf and Inzamam, backed by the powerhitting of Razzaq and Afridi any day over this current lot.

Shahid Afridi and that younger version of Shoaib Malik plays ahead of Imad Wasim and Shadab Khan. Rana Naved was twice the player Faheem Ashraf is. Even Rao Iftikhar gets in today's attack because he could actually swing the white ball. Mohammad Sami was twice the bowler Mohammad Hasnain is, and was better than Naseem Shah at present. And I don't need to explain Shoaib Akhtar, Mohammad Asif or Umar Gul. I've no idea how you can say the bowling is at similar level.

The fielding is vastly improved, but Younis and Inzy are better slip fielders than anyone we have now.

This current lot couldn't even dream of beating India away in a series, let alone 4-2, let alone from 2-0 down even if they were playing them on Cricket 19 on Easy mode.

 

[HappyWarsFan]

Thanks for the in depth details everyone! Greatly appreciated, I now have a much better understanding of that era of Pakistan cricket.

 

[sweep_shot]

Pakistan were a powerhouse in 1990's but they started to decline in 2000's. That decline hasn't stopped to this date.

I think last time Pakistan were a true heavyweight (at least on paper) was in 2003 World Cup. Legends like Saeed Anwar, Waqar Younis, Wasim Akram etc. retired after that.

 

[coy0607]

wagars team was pretty weak, not much better than current team. Inzaman's team was much better - arguably top 3 across formats