How many of you believe in Shabe-Barat?

afridianakhtar1

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AsSalamAlaikum to all,

It's very depressing to see so many muslim to deprived of this night as they think there isn't such thing called Shabe-Barat... all they know is Shabe Qadar which comes in the Ramadan.... so I'd just like to tell people to seek knowldege for truth of this night.. here I have this interesting article which brieft tells about the excellence of Shabe-Barat.



A very brief proof of the excellence of Shabe-Barat



“Lailatun-Nisfe-Min-Sha’ban” as it is referred to in the hadith is in fact an extremely blessed and virtuous night in which Allah (SAW) forgives millions of people except for the non-believers and one whose parents are upset with him (as found in the hadith). The word “Shabe-Barat” (The night of excellence) is actually a Persian word. Mufti Muhammed Taqi Usmani has said, “It is in fact absolutely wrong to say that no excellence of Shabe-Barat is proven from the hadith. It is a fact that ten noble companions of Rasoolullah (SWA) have narrated that the Holy Prophet (SWA) did mention the excellence of this night.

Compiled by Muhammad Muhiyus-Sunnah Choudhury Dubagi


This is not the only person to confirm the truthfulness of this night either. Our parents, grandparents, great grandparents and in fact our past generations have all admitted to the excellence of this night and practiced it throughout their entire lives. It is only a very modern thought that has occurred quite recently that this night is an innovation and is false. Indeed, those who say this are liars and do not know the true grandeur of this night. They are creating a large fitnah (evil, trial) for the ummah and this is affecting people worldwide. These people are infecting the world with their lies through the TV and Radio but even though the proof that we have against them is sufficient enough, they are still not prepared to accept the truth. They say that our fore-fathers and the people before them were wrong to practice this and that they did not understand the concept properly. Our blessed prophet has definitely prophesised this by saying, “Indeed, my latter ummah will think low of the previous ones. They will accuse them and say that they did wrong and misunderstood the affairs.” The truthfulness of this envisage is right in front of our eyes. It is clearly evident today that some mislead Ulama are doing exactly this and disgracing the knowledgeable Ulama of the past. They have even gone to the extent of scandalizing the sahabah-e-Kiram and the ahlul bait, searching for faults in them. Rasoolullah (SAW) has said of the Ahle-bait (People of his house) that they are like shining stars. Whoever follows them they are in the right path and upon the religion of Allah (SWA) and his prophet (SAW) and whoever harbours enmity towards them; Allah (SWA) and his Rasool have waged war upon him. The Sahaba-e-kiraam, upon whom these people are searching for faults are the very ones whom the Prophet (SAW) was pleased with and whom fought side by side with him in the many holy wars for Islam namely the battles of Badr, Uhud, and the battle of the Trench. Surely anyone with whom the Prophet (SAW) was pleased with certainly deserves our respect and we must follow them to gain the same form of acceptance from Rasoolullah (SAW).

Regarding this night, one of the hadiths states that “Allah (SWA) bestows his special attention on his entire creation. He then pardons his entire creations except and idolater and one who harbours enmity towards others.” Allama Qastalani (rahmatullahi’alayh) has narrated from Ibn Rajab Hambali that Ibn Hibban has classified this hadith as Sahih (Authentic). This means that there is no weakness in its line of transmission.

Hazrat Mu’az Ibn Jabal (RA) who was one of the dear companions of the holy Prophet (SAW) has mentioned in a hadith, “On the fifteenth night of Sha’ban, Allah (SWA) bestows his special attention on his entire creation. He then pardons his entire creation except an idolater and one who harbours enmity towards others.” This is another proof from one of the most famous companions of Nabi (SAW).

(At-targhib-uz-zawaid wa ghair huma)

Now, the dearest of Rasoolullah’s companions, his best friend, the most truthful and the first Khalifah of Islam, Hazrat Abu Bakr Siddique (RA) has narrated from Rasoolullah (SAW) that he said, “On the fifteenth night of Sha’ban, Allah (SWA) descends to the lowest heaven and thereafter forgives everyone except for an idolater and one who harbours enmity for others.”

(Baihaqi)

If you do not accept all the other people for some bizarre reason, then you must at least accept Hazrat Siddique-e-Akbar, Abu Bakr (RA) as Rasoolullah (SAW) has said regarding him that he is the best of all mankind after the Ambiya (prophets) (AS). Rasoolullah (SAW) also said that if there were to be a prophet after him, then it would have been Abu Bakr (RA). This is due to his determination to put everything that matters or not to him including his life in the way of Allah (SWA) and all that mattered to him was Allah (SWA) and his Rasool (SAW). No one would ever beat him in being able to donate more in the path of Allah (SWA) because he put every single thing that he had on the line for the sake of Allah (SWA). Umar (RA) used to try to beat him in doing this good deed but then he admitted that no body would be able to beat Abu Bakr (RA).

On this night, it is reported that Allah (SWA) forgives more people than the amount of wool on the sheep of Banu Kalb. It is related by Imam Tirmizi (RA) that Aisha (RA) once narrated, “I woke up one night and did not find Rasoolullah (SAW) in bed when it was his turn to spend the night with me. Therefore, I went out in search of him and found him in Jannatul-Baqi (the cemetery). Upon seeing me he said, “Did you fear that Allah (SWA) and his Rasool would oppress you?” I replied, “O Rasoolullah (SAW), I thought that you had gone to one of your other wives.” He then informed me that Allah (SWA) descends to the lowest sky on this night of Sha’ban (i.e. the 15th) and forgives more people than the amount of wool found on the sheep of Banu Kalb.”(The Banu Kalb were a nation who had the most vast amount of sheep).

There is such strong evidence of the magnanimousness of this night that it would be a great act of wrong to deny the wonders of this night and not to practice it. How can someone contradict these ahadith and not accept this gracious night when on this very night, Allah (SWA) looks on his creation with special (eyes of) mercy and forgiveness. We should strive to attain the pleasure and forgiveness of Allah (SWA) in this unique night instead of fighting against it and forbidden other people to practice it and in doing so, sending them upon the wrong path. We the Ahle-Sunnah wal Jam’ah believe that this night is not the one to be missed in arrogance and we ask those who deny this night to show us even one hadith that supports their opinion. We off course have many authentic narrations, some of which I have mentioned in this leaflet, which support our ways. The last hadith that I’m going to mention in this leaflet is that of Hazrat Uthman Ibn Abil ‘Aas (RA) who narrates that Rasoolullah (SAW) said “On the fifteenth night of Sha’ban, Allah (SWA) descends to the nearest sky and thereafter proclaims, ‘Is there anyone who seeks forgiveness so that I may forgive him? Is there anyone who desires anything so that I may grant him wishes?”’

(Baihaqi)

Allah (SWA) continues to call out to his creations in this manner until the arrival of the Fajr prayer.

It is now up to you to decide for yourself if you are going to accept the correct practice of our knowledge and respectable predecessors and practice this marvellous tradition of theirs or abandon it all on the world of a so-called scholar of the modern era who probably wouldn’t even be able to read some of these authentic books written by the great scholars of the past and is too proud of his own “knowledge” to admit the actual truth. As I said, it is totally up to you to choose the right or wrong path. As you know, on the day of Qiyamah, you will have to give account of your deeds to the Lord of these worlds and you will have to give your reasons for not accepting what was proved to you as being true and correct. So do not be arrogant and follow the path of the wrongdoers but stay on the passageway of success and a great reward in the Akhirah (hereafter). The misguided Ulama on this topic are too proud of themselves to accept that they are wrong; therefore they remain on their ignorant path. As Hazrat Fultoli Saheb (RA) used to say, “Pride and jealousy are what cause the degradation of a man up to the point when he is regarded to be lower than a dog which is the lowest of creatures due to its’ jealousy against others.” We pray to Allah (SWA) that he may protect us from all such misdeeds and give us the tawfeeq to stay away from all such manifestation of evil. We also ask him to grant us the ability to obey him and his prophets’ commands for the rest of our lives and also to practice this night of blessing throughout our entire lives just like our knowledgeable predecessors did and gain as much blessings as possible from such a glorious opportunity given to us by the almighty Allah (SWA)!

Ameen.

http://www.ijma.org.uk/features/ShabeBarat.html
 
I believe in it i went to the graveyard their was an itjma in handsworth cemetery it is sunnah to go to a cemetery on shabe barat.
 
Went to mosque, prayed salaah tasbeeh and went to graveyard after that.
 
how many of you will going to stay awake pray till fajar. I'm going to fast too. Anyone else?

Yeah we do that too . Used to visit graves of family members and say prayers for them in Pakistan . Shab e Barat is the best in Pakistan fireworks , buildings decorated and where we lived , you could hear qawalis and nasheeds at night .
 
Yeah we do that too . Used to visit graves of family members and say prayers for them in Pakistan . Shab e Barat is the best in Pakistan fireworks , buildings decorated and where we lived , you could hear qawalis and nasheeds at night .

We used to do the same when we lived in Lahore. Shab-e-Baraat Mubarak to all PP members.
 
Great stuff.

Soon the crowd will show up who will defend that doing all of the above is against the teaching of Islam:)
 
Great stuff.

Soon the crowd will show up who will defend that doing all of the above is against the teaching of Islam:)

This type of mentality is ruining muslims. We should be open to other views, dialogue is healthy so that we understand each other better. Making a presumption before someone has spoken is stupid. If people want to differ, let them do so, engage in debate rather than making such presumption
 
Is it permissible, even after finding out that a hadeeth is da’eef (weak), to follow it, by way of doing righteous deeds? The hadeeth says: “When it is halfway through Sha’baan, spend that night in prayer and fast on that day.” The fast is observed as a voluntary act of devotion to Allaah, as is spending that night in prayer (qiyaam al-layl).

Praise be to Allaah.
What is narrated concerning the virtue of praying, fasting and worshipping on the fifteenth of Sha’baan (al-nusf min Sha’baan) does not come under the heading of da’eef (weak), rather it comes under the heading of mawdoo’ (fabricated) and baatil (false). So it is not permissible to follow it or to act upon it, whether that is in doing righteous deeds or otherwise.

A number of scholars ruled that the reports concerning that were false, such as:
• Ibn al-Jawzi in his book al-Mawdoo’aat, 2/440-445;
• Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyyah in al-Manaar al-Muneef, no. 174- 177;
• Abu Shaamah al-Shaafa’i in al-Baa’ith ‘ala Inkaar al-Bida’ wa’l-Hawaadith, 124-137;
• Shaykh al-Islam [Ibn Taymiyah] narrated that there was consensus on the fact that they are false, in Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 28/138.
Shaykh Ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in Hukm al-Ihtifaal bi Laylat al-Nusf min Sha’baan (Ruling on celebrating the fifteenth of Sha’baan):
Celebrating the night of the fifteenth of Sha’baan (Laylat al-Nusf min Sha’baan) by praying etc, or singling out this day for fasting, is a reprehensible bid’ah (innovation) according to the majority of scholars, and there is no basis for this in sharee’ah.
And he (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:
There is no saheeh hadeeth concerning the night of the fifteenth of Sha’baan (Laylat al-Nusf min Sha’baan). All the ahaadeeth that have been narrated concerning that are mawdoo’ (fabricated) and da’eef (weak), and have no basis. There is nothing special about this night, and no recitation of Qur’aan or prayer, whether alone or in congregation, is specified for this night. What some of the scholars have said about it being special is a weak opinion. It is not permissible to single it out for any special actions. This is the correct view. And Allaah is the Source of strength.
Fataawa Islamiyyah, 4/511.
 
No replies to this thread after 2hands's post? How can you follow something when it's proof is weak and possibly even fabricated? May Allah guide us all
 
No , I do not belief it is special night. Allah ( swt ) descends on the first sky every night.

Though I do believe that Shaban is virtuous month , as prophet ( pbuh ) fasted a lot this month. Also since this month is the month that welcomes Ramdhan it is significant.
 
Went to Mosque, prayed Salat-tu-Tasbeeh

The Imam was talking at one point how some people dont believe in it, but theres so many Hadeeth's about this (im not religious tbh in the sense i know of the Hadeeth's...maybe a more religious learned persom can shed some light)...
 
Its a fabrication.

Thats all I'm going to say, can't be bothered with debates....had too many IRL :))
 
Went to Mosque, prayed Salat-tu-Tasbeeh

The Imam was talking at one point how some people dont believe in it, but theres so many Hadeeth's about this (im not religious tbh in the sense i know of the Hadeeth's...maybe a more religious learned persom can shed some light)...

That shaykh either didn't do his research or he just didn't want to find the truth. ALL those hadeeth are either daeef or fabricated.
 
Shab e Baraat (15 Sha’ban): Blessing or Bidd’ah?

What opinion do you gus hold for this night?

Do you pray all night for the favour of goodness in your coming year or do you believe it is bidah to do so?

Im torn so i need to understand and share the opinion of others.
 
What opinion do you gus hold for this night?

Do you pray all night for the favour of goodness in your coming year or do you believe it is bidah to do so?

Im torn so i need to understand and share the opinion of others.

why would praying to God ever be considered heresy? I dont understand why you posed that question.
 
why would praying to God ever be considered heresy? I dont understand why you posed that question.

Hey Stewie

From your perspective i completely agree with you point.

The issue for Muslims comes in the form of Bidah which in innovation of practice. Cultural practices become embroiled with true religious practice and then become, overtime, a part of the religion.

We are advised to avoid doing this or being a part of it. I was wishing to clarify whether this is a innovation or a part of our religion.

Hope that makes sense.
 
Shab e Baraat (15 Sha’ban): Blessing or Bidd’ah?

You are praying. How is it bidah?!
 
Assalam Alaikum brother, Inshallah this should provide clarity.

>>> http://www.islam21c.com/islamic-law/10798-the-significance-of-the-night-of-the-middle-of-shabn <<<

In Summary the following conclusions can be drawn from the article:

1. Sha'bān is a blessed month and the Messenger of Allāh (ṣallallāhu `alayhi wa-sallam) would observe fast throughout this month.

2. There is no Qur'ānic evidence for the excellence of th...e 15th of Sha'bān.

3. The opinion that sustenance, death etc is determined on the night of the 15th of Sha'bān is false.

4. Most aḥādīth on the merit of the 15th of Sha'bān are either very weak or fabricated. However, there is a narration which has been argued by some scholars (when supported collectively) reaches the level of acceptability. The ḥadīth states that Allāh descends to the lowest heaven and forgives the sins of everyone except one who associates partners with Allāh and one who harbors enmity on that night.

5. The scholars have differed on the excellence of this night, with the scholars of Hijāz denying it any merit. Other scholars have agreed on its excellence.

6. Fasting specifically on the 15th of Sha'bān is not a sunnah nor was it practiced by the early scholars rather to fast specifically on this day, with the belief that it is meritorious is makrūḥ.

7. All aḥādīth which describe specific prayers to be done on this night are fabrications and innovations.

8. There is nothing specifically mentioned from the Messenger of Allāh (ṣallallāhu `alayhi wa-sallam) on what should be done on this night.

9. Burning lanterns, preparing special foods, sweet dishes, and to believe that souls visit the families are all false and wretched innovations (Bid'ah).
 
Follow up post to my previous post:

“As for the night of the middle (of Sha’ban), its virtue has been narrated in ahadith and athar, and it has been transmitted from a group of the SALAF (pious predecessors aka Sahaba e Ikram) that they would pray the night. Thus a man spending the night in prayer by himself has been preceded in this by the salaf, and he has for it a proof, so the like of ...this is not rebuked.” (Ibn Taymiyyah, Majmu’ al-Fatawa: 23/132)

You can offer supererogatory salah but there is no special celebrations as we see in Pakistan for example neither any specific salah from Sunnah of Rasul Allah (SAW). Allah does not decide people's livelihoods and deaths on this night as far as I can tell from that article. The middle path in my opinion is what Ibn Tayymiyah mentions. Just offer Nawafil salah if you want to.

And Allah SWT knows best.
 
So praying cannot be Bidah but other stuff that people do on this day (night) can be considered as heresy. Which actually holds true for any other day.

However, I have to say sometimes cultural innovations and practices make the nation more diverse and colorful and I dont understand why Islam will forbid us from such stuff. As human beings and Muslims, we should know our deen enough to understand what part is really religion specific and which part is more cultural.

Here is an example: I am sure all of us here as kids have received eidi or money from our parents and relatives on Eid. This is so much steeped in tradition, that is almost become a part of it. I highly doubt its part of the religion where you are obligated to hand out money or gifts to your kids, nephews, nieces, grandchildren etc on Eid.

So by the same logic, you can argue that is Bidah as well. But I dont think that will stop our people from handing out Eidi.

How we do stuff in Pakistan, Indian, ETC is going to be different from how Arabs do it and it will be different from how Muslims in other parts of the world do it.

Does that really make it heresy? It should be an individual approach to the religion, where every man should know what is cultural and what is religious.

Please keep in mind Islam does not prohibit you from practicing your culture as long as there is nothing forbidden about it from a religious point of view.
 
So praying cannot be Bidah but other stuff that people do on this day (night) can be considered as heresy. Which actually holds true for any other day.

However, I have to say sometimes cultural innovations and practices make the nation more diverse and colorful and I dont understand why Islam will forbid us from such stuff. As human beings and Muslims, we should know our deen enough to understand what part is really religion specific and which part is more cultural.

Here is an example: I am sure all of us here as kids have received eidi or money from our parents and relatives on Eid. This is so much steeped in tradition, that is almost become a part of it. I highly doubt its part of the religion where you are obligated to hand out money or gifts to your kids, nephews, nieces, grandchildren etc on Eid.

So by the same logic, you can argue that is Bidah as well. But I dont think that will stop our people from handing out Eidi.

How we do stuff in Pakistan, Indian, ETC is going to be different from how Arabs do it and it will be different from how Muslims in other parts of the world do it.

Does that really make it heresy? It should be an individual approach to the religion, where every man should know what is cultural and what is religious.

Please keep in mind Islam does not prohibit you from practicing your culture as long as there is nothing forbidden about it from a religious point of view.

Brother giving gifts to each other is Sunnah as that strengthens relationships and since Eid is a celebration day, you can give gifts to your family and relatives. However, giving gifts is not restricted to just on Eid ul Fitr.

As for 15th of Shaban specifically there is no celebration as there's no evidence but as mentioned you can perform salah during the night.
 
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Brother giving gifts to each other is Sunnah as that strengthens relationships and since Eid is a celebration day, you can give gifts to your family and relatives.

As for 15th of Shaban specifically there is no celebration as there's no evidence but as mentioned you can perform salah during the night.

I understand that part and I thank you for your clarification.

But the part I dont understand is, if its Sunnah, its good to do it. If its not Sunnah, how do you justify it being Bidah or makrooh or haram?

Example: I sometimes like to watch TV for news and entertainment. We did not have that during the time of the Holy Prophet. So its not Sunnah. Is it haram or makrooh?


My point is the celebration aspect of this is cultural and not religious. So why does handing out sweets become bidah?
 
I understand that part and I thank you for your clarification.

But the part I dont understand is, if its Sunnah, its good to do it. If its not Sunnah, how do you justify it being Bidah or makrooh or haram?

Example: I sometimes like to watch TV for news and entertainment. We did not have that during the time of the Holy Prophet. So its not Sunnah. Is it haram or makrooh?


My point is the celebration aspect of this is cultural and not religious. So why does handing out sweets become bidah?

TV news is a form of media, a thing, a tool of communication and all things are permitted in Islam unless explicitly prohibited.

As for determining if it's Biddah or not, if the sources of narration are weak we cannot practice it as that's not part of the Deen. So handing out sweets on the 15th of Shaban is built on a fabricated celebration that has no basis in the Deen therefore we stay away from it.

By all means hand out sweets on the 2 Eids, and personal happy occassions. :)
 
TV news is a form of media, a thing, a tool of communication and all things are permitted in Islam unless explicitly prohibited.

As for determining if it's Biddah or not, if the sources of narration are weak we cannot practice it as that's not part of the Deen. So handing out sweets on the 15th of Shaban is built on a fabricated celebration that has no basis in the Deen therefore we stay away from it.

By all means hand out sweets on the 2 Eids, and personal happy occassions. :)

I am sure the Prophet (PBUH) and the Sahaba did not play cricket or watch the latest episode of Game of Thrones on the 15th of Shaban either.

Does that mean engaging in those activities on that day is Biddah?
 
I am sure the Prophet (PBUH) and the Sahaba did not play cricket or watch the latest episode of Game of Thrones on the 15th of Shaban either.

Does that mean engaging in those activities on that day is Biddah?

Cricket is a recreational activity, nothing to do with the Deen hence not biddah.

The point is, people distribute sweets and do other things because they believe 15th Shaban to be a special night, so the celebration is done on that basis which is not permissible.
 
I am sure the Prophet (PBUH) and the Sahaba did not play cricket or watch the latest episode of Game of Thrones on the 15th of Shaban either.

Does that mean engaging in those activities on that day is Biddah?

Cricket is a recreational activity, nothing to do with the Deen hence not biddah.

The point is, people distribute sweets and do other things because they believe 15th Shaban to be a special night and people perform special salah, so the celebration is done on that basis which is not permissible.
 
My family does pray on Shab e barat and Shab e Miraj , we have eaten at koonda and all those other biddah things .
 
Cricket is a recreational activity, nothing to do with the Deen hence not biddah.

The point is, people distribute sweets and do other things because they believe 15th Shaban to be a special night and people perform special salah, so the celebration is done on that basis which is not permissible.

How's it not permissible?

Any evidence form Quran, Hadith where is it specially mentioned that it is not "permissible" to offer extra prayers on 15th Shabaan?

When you throw around words like its not permissible or whatever, you are automatically taking things to level of Haraam. And that's dangerous and a sin itself.
 
I really don`t understand how praying to God any given night can be not permissible or haram . Stop this , you are not Saudis .
 
How's it not permissible?

Any evidence form Quran, Hadith where is it specially mentioned that it is not "permissible" to offer extra prayers on 15th Shabaan?

When you throw around words like its not permissible or whatever, you are automatically taking things to level of Haraam. And that's dangerous and a sin itself.

Refer to the summary I provided from the article, there is no evidence from Shari' texts on special ibadaats and celebrations for 15th of Shaban. You can however perform nawafil salah if you'd like as Sheikh Ibn Tayyimiyah said that a group of the Salaf spent the night of 15th in prayer.
 
Refer to the summary I provided from the article, there is no evidence from Shari' texts on special ibadaats and celebrations for 15th of Shaban. You can however perform nawafil salah if you'd like as Sheikh Ibn Tayyimiyah said that a group of the Salaf spent the night of 15th in prayer.

Why isn't that classified as Bidah?
 
When God created Man (Hazrat Adam AS), He asked all the farishtey to bow in front of him. He created man with something He did not even bestow upon His Angels. FREE WILL.

Islam is a religion that gives your guidelines and rules on how to live your lives as an individual and in a society. But if God wanted us all to become drones and behave the same way, then what is the point of God giving us that free will?

There are some things in this world, with changing times, we as evolved human beings and Muslims should be able to tell are right or not. We cannot follow each and everything the Prophet, his Sahaba, Quran, Hadith etc tell us to do right down to the T because there are too many things in our era, they did not have.

Bhaio, tora dimagh istimal kijiey. Tori ibadat aur zyada karney se, ya aik mubarik din per tora celebrate kerney se koi kufr ya gunah kaisey ho sakta hai?

I have faith in God and in his decision to give me a brain (or half a brain if we are to believe my parents) and I very well intend to use it when such situations arise so I can decide for myself if my actions are right and wrong. I am not going to run to a scholar for every minor detail of how should I wake up in the morning, scratch my head, put my shoes on and drive my car. I am sure I will be told to ride a horse or a camel, because thats the Sunnah, by 50 percent of the scholars I ask.

I apologize if I hurt anyone's sentiments here with my comments, but I just had to speak my mind here. Some of the people here decide to become self appointed Islami Hawaldar and to them 75 % of the stuff in this day is just "not permissible".
 
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I really don`t understand how praying to God any given night can be not permissible or haram . Stop this , you are not Saudis .

1) No one is saying to God any night is haram or not permissible. It is performing specific prayers that is wrong

2) Islam started in Saudi Arabia. I think they know more than Pakistanis who have adopted various pagan practices of Hinduism and tried to incorporate it into Islam!
 
Why would God prefer to listen one particular night over others?


For prayers, there should not be any particular time, day, place and conditions. If he is a God, he should listen to us every place, every time, and in every condition.

We need to follow the religion with logic instead of blind faith.
 
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9. Burning lanterns, preparing special foods, sweet dishes, and to believe that souls visit the families are all false and wretched innovations (Bid'ah).

The anti-fun police strikes again.
 
The anti-fun police strikes again.

I bet you also think the practice of mehndi in Pakistani marriages is also fun and ok even though it is directly taken from Hinduism.

Islam is a very simple religion which is practiced uprightly by the Saudi Arabs and we need to be following them. By that I dont mean celebrating Eid on the same day as them but appreciating them as the true exemplifiers of Islam and to adopt their culture.

For example, if we teach our children arabic from a very young age this would lead to them properly understand the Qur'an.
 
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I bet you also think the practice of mehndi in Pakistani marriages is also fun and ok even though it is directly taken from Hinduism.

Islam is a very simple religion which is practiced uprightly by the Saudi Arabs and we need to be following them. By that I dont mean celebrating Eid on the same day as them but appreciating them as the true exemplifiers of Islam and to adopt their culture.

For example, if we teach our children our arabic from a very young age this would lead to properly understand the Qur'an.

If I have to follow the messed up version of Islam practised in Saudi Arabia then I'd much rather give it up...

Saudis are the worst examples
 
If I have to follow the messed up version of Islam practised in Saudi Arabia then I'd much rather give it up...

Saudis are the worst examples

messed up version? Care to explain.

If by messed up you mean too orthodox and too observant of the Qur'an and the Hadith then yeah it is messed up
 
I bet you also think the practice of mehndi in Pakistani marriages is also fun and ok even though it is directly taken from Hinduism.

Islam is a very simple religion which is practiced uprightly by the Saudi Arabs and we need to be following them. By that I dont mean celebrating Eid on the same day as them but appreciating them as the true exemplifiers of Islam and to adopt their culture.

For example, if we teach our children arabic from a very young age this would lead to them properly understand the Qur'an.

I'd rather get run over by a truck?
 
If I have to follow the messed up version of Islam practised in Saudi Arabia then I'd much rather give it up...

Saudis are the worst examples


After 1600 years, we still do not know what is the real version of Islam.

No wonder, we are very peaceful and respected all over the world.
 
messed up version? Care to explain.

If by messed up you mean too orthodox and too observant of the Qur'an and the Hadith then yeah it is messed up

first of all they are a monarchy which is not allowed in Islam

They have destroyed a lot of Islam's greatest historical sites

And women there are treated ike cattle...

This is just tip of the ice berg.... Saudi version of Islam (ie Wahabbism) is a curse on the religiion
 
Pakistanis are a lost cause. No wonder alot of Arabs dislike us.

The feeling is mutual...

And really being liked by an Arab isnt something to be aspired to.. They are lazy, useless people with little contribution to the world in the past 1000 years...
 
Why would God prefer to listen one particular night over others?


For prayers, there should not be any particular time, day, place and conditions. If he is a God, he should listen to us every place, every time, and in every condition.

We need to follow the religion with logic instead of blind faith.

God Allmighty listens to the prayers all the time but it is upto Him SWT to accept it or not.

Secondly you should calm down with your "logic" all the time. Your brain has a limit and another person can find a thing stupid which you find 'logical'.

Why do you think Friday is the best of the days? Why are fasts of Ramadan mandatory only? Why is Laila-tul-Qadr better than 1000 months? (this is directly from Qura'n).

Some days, months are preferred over other days and months.

You give the impression of lacking fundamental knowledge of Islam.
 
The feeling is mutual...

And really being liked by an Arab isnt something to be aspired to.. They are lazy, useless people with little contribution to the world in the past 1000 years...

Exactly. do i care what the saudis think of me? No, I don't give half a damn.

This Imran user is a self confused person who doesn't even know his own true identity as a Pakistani.
 
Unfortunately, a lot of Muslims make Islam extremely complicated. If someone wants to pray on a particular night, I do not think there is anything wrong with that.
 
KB's point isn't difficult to comprehend...

There is nothing wrong with prayer on the 15th...do it as your extra prayer...the issue is with linking it to a specific purpose which isn't ordained in Islam...

Doing prayer is no issue...doing prayer because you believe in the importance of 15th Shabaan is bidah...

And Imran Sir...the Saudis Islam is quite a recent phenomena...the Islam practiced there is a corruption of Abdul Wahabs works...Abdul Wahabs whose works many feel is nonsense...and whose works aren't even practiced by the Saudis today except when they monarchy wants to exert its power...
 
Shab e Baraat (15 Sha’ban): Blessing or Bidd’ah?

I bet you also think the practice of mehndi in Pakistani marriages is also fun and ok even though it is directly taken from Hinduism.

Islam is a very simple religion which is practiced uprightly by the Saudi Arabs and we need to be following them. By that I dont mean celebrating Eid on the same day as them but appreciating them as the true exemplifiers of Islam and to adopt their culture.

For example, if we teach our children arabic from a very young age this would lead to them properly understand the Qur'an.

You want us to be wannabe Saudis?

Great! Lets find lots of oil first, make one filthy rich son of a gun our king, waste our oil money, invest zero in education, science, tech, RND, tell our women they can't drive, remove democracy from our system and lick American oil magnates' balls..

Did I capture everything?
 
Shab e Baraat (15 Sha’ban): Blessing or Bidd’ah?

I would much ratherbe desi than pretend to be a jail Arab Bedouin.
 
Re: Shab e Baraat (15 Sha’ban): Blessing or Bidd’ah?

I bet you also think the practice of mehndi in Pakistani marriages is also fun and ok even though it is directly taken from Hinduism.

Islam is a very simple religion which is practiced uprightly by the Saudi Arabs and we need to be following them. By that I dont mean celebrating Eid on the same day as them but appreciating them as the true exemplifiers of Islam and to adopt their culture.

For example, if we teach our children arabic from a very young age this would lead to them properly understand the Qur'an.

Lol. Saudis the exemplifiers of islam? Loooool
 
Shab e Baraat (15 Sha’ban): Blessing or Bidd’ah?

I had a terrible experience with the native Saudis when I went for hajj in 2002. Very rude, arrogant and racist.

Perhaps I'm being judgmental because they might be over stressed by the hectics of hajj because let's be honest the hajis don't conduct themselves in a decent manner and let alone Pakistanis.

I remember a Saudi begging a group of Pakistanis to take the Kaaba to Pakistan after they had caused a traffic jam resulting in him getting stuck there for almost an hour.
 
Shab e Baraat (15 Sha’ban): Blessing or Bidd’ah?

But like most religious people these days, they lack the basic etiquettes and "khush akhlaqi". I am yet to come across a mild mannered religious man.
 
Shab e Baraat (15 Sha’ban): Blessing or Bidd’ah?

But like most religious people these days, they lack the basic etiquettes and "khush akhlaqi". I am yet to come across a mild mannered religious man.

Tried leaving the basement ? :yk
Seriously though most religious people I know are nice and polite . I am not talking about just Muslims either .
 
the tragic thing about this thread is at an estimate not all the participants pray and so are debating an issue which scholars of islam cannot come to consensus on while they do not perform one of the basic fardh

Sadly that is the state of the ummah today
 
Shab e Baraat (15 Sha’ban): Blessing or Bidd’ah?

i am sorry to see everyone on this thread is trying to impose his Islam on others, its better to leave such topics alone as these forums are not for such matters, they wont get you anywhere, ppl post to have chaska. If you want to know stuff related to religion go find an Islamic scholar
 
The point is, people distribute sweets and do other things because they believe 15th Shaban to be a special night, so the celebration is done on that basis which is not permissible.

15th Shaban is supposed to be about engaging in prayer, asking forgiveness from Allah, attending the mosque and/or graveyard. These things probably aren't compulsory, but has the thought not crossed your mind that they may be beneficial as opposed to engaging in an idle act such as watching T.V. the entire night for no reason?

Who the heck distributes sweets on the 15th Shaban anyways! Let's save that for Eid, shall we?
 
KB's point isn't difficult to comprehend...

There is nothing wrong with prayer on the 15th...do it as your extra prayer...the issue is with linking it to a specific purpose which isn't ordained in Islam...

Doing prayer is no issue...doing prayer because you believe in the importance of 15th Shabaan is bidah...

And Imran Sir...the Saudis Islam is quite a recent phenomena...the Islam practiced there is a corruption of Abdul Wahabs works...Abdul Wahabs whose works many feel is nonsense...and whose works aren't even practiced by the Saudis today except when they monarchy wants to exert its power...

About time someone got it! :D
 
15th Shaban is supposed to be about engaging in prayer, asking forgiveness from Allah, attending the mosque and/or graveyard. These things probably aren't compulsory, but has the thought not crossed your mind that they may be beneficial as opposed to engaging in an idle act such as watching T.V. the entire night for no reason?

Who the heck distributes sweets on the 15th Shaban anyways! Let's save that for Eid, shall we?

Seeking forgiveness should be a daily activity, and definitely there are nights which have authentic significance and superiority like Night of Qadr for example but there's no authentic evidence regarding 15th Shaban from Shari' sources and the narrations regarding special prayers and other things like Allah Azza Wa Jal deciding our fate etc. on this night have been classified as daeef (weak).

If you read the summary I posted in my 1st post in this thread, it mentions that Messenger of Allah (SAW) used to fast entire month of Shaban, he didn't fast specifically for 15th and neither did he engage in any special & specific prayer at night.

I reiterate you can perform Nawafil if you want to.
 
1) No one is saying to God any night is haram or not permissible. It is performing specific prayers that is wrong

2) Islam started in Saudi Arabia. I think they know more than Pakistanis who have adopted various pagan practices of Hinduism and tried to incorporate it into Islam!

They cannot know more than the Quran which happens to be the same for us .

I don't care if Arabs like us or not .

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4 Beta
 
the tragic thing about this thread is at an estimate not all the participants pray and so are debating an issue which scholars of islam cannot come to consensus on while they do not perform one of the basic fardh

Sadly that is the state of the ummah today

You are quite right brother, Scholars are quite divided on this issue however, we must stay away from fabricated customs which have their basis in weak hadiths.

As I keep on repeating, the middle path would be to perform Nawafil if you really want to.
 
I bet you also think the practice of mehndi in Pakistani marriages is also fun and ok even though it is directly taken from Hinduism.

Islam is a very simple religion which is practiced uprightly by the Saudi Arabs and we need to be following them. By that I dont mean celebrating Eid on the same day as them but appreciating them as the true exemplifiers of Islam and to adopt their culture.

For example, if we teach our children arabic from a very young age this would lead to them properly understand the Qur'an.

Islam is a universal religion and having diversity is not prohibited

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4 Beta
 
They cannot know more than the Quran which happens to be the same for us .

I don't care if Arabs like us or not .

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4 Beta

Qur'an declares all Muslims to be brothers and here we see the jahiliyah concept of nationalism shining through and then we turn around and say they don't know more then us! Whattay logic !! :facepalm:
 
But like most religious people these days, they lack the basic etiquettes and "khush akhlaqi". I am yet to come across a mild mannered religious man.

:yk is a mild mannered religious fun guy

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4 Beta
 
After 1600 years, we still do not know what is the real version of Islam.

No wonder, we are very peaceful and respected all over the world.

IF you really want to know why there seems to be so much confusion today, just watch this short clip Inshallah, it explains in the most simplest of fashion why there seems to be various groups in the Muslim Ummah:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7rd7XhZLGE&feature=player_detailpage#t=100s

This completely nails it. Forward to 1 : 40 and watch from there.
 
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Pakistanis are a lost cause. No wonder alot of Arabs dislike us.

so you agree with arabs when all the men eat from a large plate and if anything's left over it goes to the women? how wonderful. saudi's are people that i'll never follow.
 
Exactly. do i care what the saudis think of me? No, I don't give half a damn.

This Imran user is a self confused person who doesn't even know his own true identity as a Pakistani.

No my true identity is that of a muslim. Why do Pakistanis put their nationality before Islam?
 
No my true identity is that of a muslim. Why do Pakistanis put their nationality before Islam?

Lol I hope you appreciate the irony of your post...

Can a Pakistani Muslim marry a Saudi woman?...can any Muslim get Saudi citizenship?...

If Saudi is this special Islamic land why do Muslims need VISA's in the first place?...

Saudi as a monarchy doesn't even view its own citizens as equal to them let alone foreigners...

I find it amusing how you want to wave the nationalism card when discussing Pakistan yet tell everyone to follow the way of the Saudis...

Its very amusing that much I will say...
 
I agree with KB that all Muslims are brothers but I will feel that brotherhood even more if Saudis happen to be be more brotherly towards us.

There is no question about it that they look down upon us. Those who claim their version of Islam is true, well I will just use my own judgment on such matters thank you very much! Personally, as a nation, just like Pakistanis have flaws, they have flaws as well.


A few I would like to point out:

In Islam there is no concept of Monarchy- there is Monarchy in Saudi Arab

In Islam, women have rights- Saudi Arabia makes open mockery of this concept. Women are not allowed to drive.

In Islam, people are encouraged to educate themselves, "ilm haasil karo chahey cheen jana parey" With all oil money and whatnot, how many renowned research universities are there in SA? Universities that have made scientific breakthroughs in different fields? I would say very few. Compare that to some other nations across the globe.

Islam promotes equal footing to all Muslims regardless of race and nationality. How many Pakistanis hold SA nationality after living there for years and years and years? It is easy for Pakistanis and other Muslims to go to Europe or US and become citizens there.

In Islam, people are supposed to stand up for injustice and do jihad. In Sauda Arab, the members of the royal family are known to be the most corrupt, ayyash, spoilt rotten brats. They come to Europe and US and hire hookers by the dozens, spend the oil money (which I am sure is in a way state money) crazily. Why dont the people of SA stand up against this injustice and do jihad? (I am sure some have done that but they are called rebels and put down) but overall the state of that nation is not one that is to be held as admirable by any Muslim.

Again, as Pakistanis, I know we dont set high standards but I have to scoff at this BS of "we should strive to be more like Saudi muslims"

A LOAD OF BS with a side of goat droppings!
 
I agree with KB that all Muslims are brothers but I will feel that brotherhood even more if Saudis happen to be be more brotherly towards us.

There is no question about it that they look down upon us. Those who claim their version of Islam is true, well I will just use my own judgment on such matters thank you very much! Personally, as a nation, just like Pakistanis have flaws, they have flaws as well.


A few I would like to point out:

In Islam there is no concept of Monarchy- there is Monarchy in Saudi Arab

In Islam, women have rights- Saudi Arabia makes open mockery of this concept. Women are not allowed to drive.

In Islam, people are encouraged to educate themselves, "ilm haasil karo chahey cheen jana parey" With all oil money and whatnot, how many renowned research universities are there in SA? Universities that have made scientific breakthroughs in different fields? I would say very few. Compare that to some other nations across the globe.

Islam promotes equal footing to all Muslims regardless of race and nationality. How many Pakistanis hold SA nationality after living there for years and years and years? It is easy for Pakistanis and other Muslims to go to Europe or US and become citizens there.

In Islam, people are supposed to stand up for injustice and do jihad. In Sauda Arab, the members of the royal family are known to be the most corrupt, ayyash, spoilt rotten brats. They come to Europe and US and hire hookers by the dozens, spend the oil money (which I am sure is in a way state money) crazily. Why dont the people of SA stand up against this injustice and do jihad? (I am sure some have done that but they are called rebels and put down) but overall the state of that nation is not one that is to be held as admirable by any Muslim.

Again, as Pakistanis, I know we dont set high standards but I have to scoff at this BS of "we should strive to be more like Saudi muslims"

A LOAD OF BS with a side of goat droppings!

The monarchy is definitely against Islam and I am on record to criticize the treason being committed by Al Saud family to the Ummah. I reject their Rule of Kufr. The discord between the Arabs and rest of the Muslims is due to the nationalistic boundaries imposed on us and the System of Taghut governing our lives. And I have plenty of stories from friends and relatives how people are treated poorly in KSA. It is definitely deplorable but mainly a byproduct of the baatil system.

Lastly, as Muslims our role models are Rasul Allah (SAW) and the Sahaba e Ikram (RAA), that's who all Muslims should aspire to be like.
 
The monarchy is definitely against Islam and I am on record to criticize the treason being committed by Al Saud family to the Ummah. I reject their Rule of Kufr. The discord between the Arabs and rest of the Muslims is due to the nationalistic boundaries imposed on us and the System of Taghut governing our lives. And I have plenty of stories from friends and relatives how people are treated poorly in KSA. It is definitely deplorable but mainly a byproduct of the baatil system.

Lastly, as Muslims our role models are Rasul Allah (SAW) and the Sahaba e Ikram (RAA), that's who all Muslims should aspire to be like.

well said, brother.

Hope we all realize that. Nationalistic boundaries in this day and age for Muslim countries are driven by a lot of different factors and a common religion being the only factor pales in comparison to them. Not what we would have liked to see but thats the way it is.
 
Nationalism wil always remain Inshallah!

It is what gives un an identity! :p
 
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