How selfish have we been as Pakistani fans towards Saeed Ajmal?

[Theo_14]

Once regarded as a valuable player for Pakistan cricket team. Proved to be decisive in important games that mattered; stole the spotlight and grabbed the headlines on many occasions.

His doosra proved to be a deadly weapon; he performed consistently in all three formats - at one point some even said this player was set to become a legend for Pakistan. At one point, everyone supported him, became a fan of him, his bowling, his character and personality. Soon he left Graeme Swann behind.

​

Every Pakistani fan gave him attention, appreciated his contributions and more importantly... Gave him 'respect.' See for yourself:

1) "Ajmal a thousand times better then Swann"
2) http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?100184-Saeed-Ajmal-The-quot-Doosra-quot-Wizard
3) http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/search.php?searchid=355363&pp=&page=7

Since his action change; everything went downhill... But one thing you would not expect is Pakistani fans' showing 'disrespect' to him as if he never contributed at all to any matches:

1) http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...can-be-selected-for-the-WT20-quot-Saeed-Ajmal

We once credited his ambition to invent new variations or improve his batting but now we criticize and dare I say it discriminate his dream and ambition to become the same player or to play for Pakistan again. Just look at these "so called supporters" who have changed their opinions to an extent were they are telling him to "retire." Having an opinion to not see him in the side is fair enough but to show 'lack of respect' to someone who you once respected is truly shocking. I mean; if anyone... Ajmal is probably the most hurt by him not being the same effective bowler. You would think it is Ajmal who was caught in spot-fixing and not Aamer. It seems everyone has forgotten what he has done for us.

The point I am making here is that.... This example is one of many strong scenarios, were we do not behave as "fans" but instead we behave totally the opposite. And the correct term is "selfish." The 'lack of respect' is truly sad; were else having a opinion that he is not good enough for the side is fair enough.

 

[WC-Passion]

That's how it works for PPers.

If their not talented or have regressed, show them no respect and forget about them and their accomplishments.

 

[Cricketfan no 1]

i feel sad for him and people on pp have been highly pathetic towards him sadly

 

[AlphaFighter]

That's how it works for PPers.

If their not talented or have regressed, show them no respect and forget about them and their accomplishments. If you don't do that, you're a fan boy.

It is incredibly sad but there is no shortage of Pakistani players who get treated and disposed of like Garbage once they are past their utility. It has happened to so many players i.e Wasim, Waqar, Akhtar, Yousuf, Saqlain, Ajmal and even Kaneria.

 

[shaz619]

Greek Tragedy and all

I've never gone over board when it came to my criticisms in light of his career being ruined due to his illegal action; I like Ajmal and I relish all the glory he bought Pakistan be it in Tests/ODI's or in the T20 World Cup in 2009. It is worth noting that he did clear the ICC tests when he was first reported so it's not as if he has always been a chucker, in recent years he began to chuck given his work load which ensured a deteriorating action.

 

[Theo_14]

he's a chucker and blackzero proved that 5 years ago before anyone else did

Okay, we know that already. It is confirmed he is a chucker. Tell me something new.

So because he is a chucker, we forget his deliveries, hard work, effort in each delivery? The time he made you jump when he took a vital wicket or laugh during an interview with one of the sky sports journalist?

Do we forget them to an extent were we start to "disrespect him" Were a normal reasonable person would think Ajmal has done something worse, ie spot fixing? Do we start discriminating him by forgetting how he is as a person, or how he must feel after seeing his career down or telling him to retire?

How is our behavior justified? Why are ICC not receiving same treatment for not identifying this issue when he first arrived on International scenes; just like they did with Shabir?

 

[AlphaFighter]

It is without a doubt that the loss of Ajmal and later Hafeez as bowling options have wrecked our ODI and T-20 bowling big time.

 

[AlphaFighter]

Ajmal bowled a lot of deliveries for Pakistan in all formats of the game from 2010 onwards to 2014.

 

[StreetSmart]

That's how it goes " Jab tak Balla chal raha hai us waqt tak sab set jis din balla na chala us din......." feel sorry for him but I think reaction from some ppers are not very good on calling him chuker. Its like taking every thing and his hard work back from him. Is it proved that those wicket he has taken in his career was due to chuking ? seriously if you can chuk and do better than him please do let every one know. Most of the offspinners chuk and this is proved I dont want to bring other contries player in it but please be respectful and oblige their hard work.

 

[WC-Passion]

It is incredibly sad but there is no shortage of Pakistani players who get treated and disposed of like Garbage once they are past their utility. It has happened to so many players i.e Wasim, Waqar, Akhtar, Yousuf, Saqlain, Ajmal and even Kaneria.

Exactly. Rubbish attitude from fans, ironic as fans complain about player attitudes.

 

[zabalestmsm]

I still respect him. He gave us many entertaining memories. He used to be our main weapon. Those were some good times.

 

[11ShadyBrothers]

I have noticed that as well. Rubbish and absolutely gross by many fans. Disappointing. I am indifferent after the fixing incident tbh regarding his cricketing career. Feel bad for the guy.

This guy served as pakistani player in whatsoever capacity as a dedicated lad. Its not his fault that ICC woke up one day to 'change' their testing methods.

 

[shom]

Big fan of this man,will not chewing gum and calmness in pressure situation.Still believe he will back again.

 

[Slog]

I support Pakistan cricket team. If a player is not performing then he doesn't deserve to play. Nostalgic memories should remain memories and not remain basis for continued support

 

[AlphaFighter]

I support Pakistan cricket team. If a player is not performing then he doesn't deserve to play. Nostalgic memories should remain memories and not remain basis for continued support

This thread is a call to show respect to a man who has given services to the country atleast. This is not a lobbying effort to bring him back into the team.

 

[Theo_14]

I support Pakistan cricket team. If a player is not performing then he doesn't deserve to play. Nostalgic memories should remain memories and not remain basis for continued support

This is not "bring Ajmal back" thread.

Kindly, read the post below and the thread before making a post which does not relate to the purpose or intention of the opening post:

This thread is a call to show respect to a man who has given services to the country atleast. This is not a lobbying effort to bring him back into the team.

 

[Slog]

This is not "bring Ajmal back" thread.

Kindly, read the post below and the thread before making a post which does not relate to the purpose or intention of the opening post:

I think you are making a false equivalence here.

An example would be Umar Gul. He is still well loved and respected by Pak fans even though he was never a great bowler for any consistent period of time. Same with some others.

The alleged lack of respect for Ajmal comes down to the fact that he was essentially bowling unfairly and cheating as a consequence (unintentional or not). To add to that the long long litany of absolutely horrendous and unprofessional remarks from him have lost him goodwill.

 

[Theo_14]

I think you are making a false equivalence here.

An example would be Umar Gul. He is still well loved and respected by Pak fans even though he was never a great bowler for any consistent period of time. Same with some others.

The alleged lack of respect for Ajmal comes down to the fact that he was essentially bowling unfairly and cheating as a consequence (unintentional or not). To add to that the long long litany of absolutely horrendous and unprofessional remarks from him have lost him goodwill.

Unprofessional remarks indeed; then how are some of us different when we are discriminating in stating the guy should retire, or showing disrespect in such manner, in which Aamer would think that Ajmal was also involved in the spot-fixing?

The bottom line is that no player who has contributed so much should receive 'such level' of abuse, and lack of respect. There is no justification.

 

[AlphaFighter]

I think you are making a false equivalence here.

An example would be Umar Gul. He is still well loved and respected by Pak fans even though he was never a great bowler for any consistent period of time. Same with some others.

The alleged lack of respect for Ajmal comes down to the fact that he was essentially bowling unfairly and cheating as a consequence (unintentional or not). To add to that the long long litany of absolutely horrendous and unprofessional remarks from him have lost him goodwill.

Gul is still disrespected and called Rubbish by fans even though the guy played a key role in our 2009 T-20 WC triumph.

Ajmal is not the only one who benefited from lax ICC rules, Murlitharan, Narine e.t.c. are other examples. So don't call and insult Ajmal by calling him a cheat because his bowling action prior to the ICC change in rules was legal at the time period.

As far as his unprofessional statements are concerned, this is how every cricketer reacts when his livelihood is taken away from him and when he is abandoned and hence results the frustration. Let me remind you that Misbah ul Haq whom everyone is preaching to be the ideal role model and true gentlemen, in 2010 expressed his disgust at the PCB selectors for not selecting him and threatened to burn his Cricket Kit in frustration and that if he fails to make a recall within a year he will retire from the sport. So this is how all sportsmen react when under pressure.

 

[Bhaijaan]

POTW

Pakistan was nothing as a cricket team from 2011 to 2014 minus one Saeed Ajmal. The guy was the single reason behind Pakistani bowling staying so competitive and lethal across all formats. Yasir has picked up from there in tests but in limited overs you've got completely exposed in his absence.

 

[ExplicitAI]

I don't disrespect him at all. It's just that his chucking made him pick up a truck load of wickets. His new action looks so robotic, lifeless, plain, dull, ineffective and useless which makes him a complete liability for the team. Given that he is able to replicate past performances with his new action then he deserves a comeback. I might get hated for saying this but if we had a Test match against a weaker Test team, it wouldn't hurt giving Ajmal a chance against them just to see where he stands in that format with his new action. I mean he was our premier bowler so it doesn't hurt to have a risky experiment against a weaker team even though we have Yasir now doesn't it? Bilal Asif in ODI's should be preferred given he's somewhat decent as an offie and his batting abilities are much better than Ajmal's which should be significantly useful in the lower order. Ajmal will only make a grand comeback if he displays good performances in domestic and league cricket.

 

[AlphaFighter]

I don't disrespect him at all. It's just that his chucking made him pick up a truck load of wickets. His new action looks so robotic, lifeless, plain, dull, ineffective and useless which makes him a complete liability for the team. Given that he is able to replicate past performances with his new action then he deserves a comeback. I might get hated for saying this but if we had a Test match against a weaker Test team, it wouldn't hurt giving Ajmal a chance against them just to see where he stands in that format with his new action. I mean he was our premier bowler so it doesn't hurt to have a risky experiment against a weaker team even though we have Yasir now doesn't it? Bilal Asif in ODI's should be preferred given he's somewhat decent as an offie and his batting abilities are much better than Ajmal's which should be significantly useful in the lower order. Ajmal will only make a grand comeback if he displays good performances in domestic and league cricket.

The guy is 38 this year and going to turn 39 soon. With a new action and being completely ineffective, it is time to move on now. But the PCB should not have abandoned him and forgotten about his services for the country.

 

[volcyz]

But he wasn't able to chuck us to a win vs AUS in 2010 t20 when AUS needed like 20 off the last over.

 

[ExplicitAI]

The guy is 38 this year and going to turn 39 soon. With a new action and being completely ineffective, it is time to move on now. But the PCB should not have abandoned him and forgotten about his services for the country.

That's exactly what I've been saying, we need to look for fresh alternatives.

 

[waleed88]

The thing is the 'elites' of this forum have gone against him. Most of them have had this attitude about most players going downhill. But with Ajmal its more the 'I told you so' behavior by most fans. Like 'dekha' we knew he was a chucker all along. Any claims to refute that by posting Indian bowlers chucking gets us mocked and made fun of because we are trying to justify cheating.

To be honest Saeed's interview hasn't covered himself in any glory either, with ridiculous statements here and there. The fact is we all were Saeed's fans when chucking was 'halaal' and it was benefitting Pakistan as a team. As soon as he was called for chucking, even his dearest turned against him. That is usually what happens to us human beings, and especially living in Pakistan. That when you are someone, even your enemies become your friends, and when you are nobody even when your friends become your enemies.

Saeed has to realize this, and try and keep away from the media as long as possible. If he has intentions of making a comeback he should first perform and be back to the level he is (I doubt it). If he believes in himself so much then he should be the hardest worker and forget about International cricket for a while.

Lest we forget, we always praise Misbah Ul Haq for his achievements as a captain, in all honesty there would be no Misbah ul Haq - 'the greatest Pakistani Test Captain of all time' - without Saeed Ajmal's achievements in majority of the Test Matches he won. He was also the single biggest reason our team was no.6 in ODI rankings for a very long time, his impact is such that once he was banned from bowling we could no longer defend sub-par 250 scores and our team began to nose dive down the rankings. Doubly affected by loss of Hafeez the bowler.

A really sad scenario to someone with potential ATG status, lost because of his chucking allegations. Advice to Saeed would be focus on domestic t20 competitions and rebuild the fear factor he has lost since his modifications in his actions.

 

[Ironcat]

Yep, way too selfish, but that's PP. My own stance on Ajmal is simple.

He was NOT a chucker until ICC put everyone through the new biomechanical tests. The reason is simple. Before the new tests, ICC tested him and cleared him. He started to bowl based on this impression and - in fact - everyone else also agreed. All batsmen, all officials, and all umpires. Bar some, maybe.

If ICC had these new tests available in the first place, he would be advised earlier of his action and he would change it. Now, at the age of 38+, it is too late. He cannot invest the next 3 years of his career in coming up with new deliveries and pace variations because he is not even going to last physically for that long internationally. New action or old action.

It is no different than having a speed limit of 100 KPH on a road revised down to 60 KPH. Those who drove in the past at, say, 90 KPH cannot be ticketed retrospectively for having broken the new limit.

 

[Abdul]

Quite agree with this post.

Do feel bad for the guy but he shouldn't have made the remarks he made recently on the media with the victimization mentality towards the ICC.

 

[BuccalSingh]

Misbah's legacy is incomplete without Ajmal. Had Misbah skipped Pak without Ajmal, people would have rated Misbah as a poorer captain than MSD (in tests).
li.

 

[Bilal7]

I am certainly not one of these toxic fans who spit on our players once they stop winning games for them. Ajmal was a great player to watch, a very humble and genuinely nice human-beings and I wish him the best for his future. He ruled the spin-department of cricket for almost five years and proved himself to be better than other quality spinners like Swann, Herath, Ashwin, Lyon, etc.

Would I like to see him make a comeback? Absolutely, however, it doesn't seem likely unless he performs very well in the BPL and the PSL.

Thank you, Ajmal, you gave me many happy memories as a cricket fan.

 

[dashing_man]

That's how it works for PPers.

If their not talented or have regressed, show them no respect and forget about them and their accomplishments. If you don't do that, you're a fan boy.

I felt really sick seeing so much hate and pathetic comments regarding Ajmal when he was reported. Everyone turned their backs on him. He didn't even whine like usual cricketers. He stayed silent and worked on his action. And then he put his country in front of him and dropped himself out of the World Cup because he knew he wasn't good enough anymore. But what PPers do, they bashed him, Said he is a selfish jerk

So called Hardcore fans of Pakistan cricket

 

[Bilal7]

Misbah's legacy is incomplete without Ajmal. Had Misbah skipped Pak without Ajmal, people would have rated Misbah as a poorer captain than MSD (in tests).
Without any doubt Ajmal was the greatest chucker in cricket after Murali.

Definitely better than Bhajjan, I agree. Nice to see objective Indian fans like you on our forum.

 

[Bilal7]

But he wasn't able to chuck us to a win vs AUS in 2010 t20 when AUS needed like 20 off the last over.

*Gasp* Are you saying that he failed for once? How in the world could that happen?

 

[khalil1986]

I think you are making a false equivalence here.

An example would be Umar Gul. He is still well loved and respected by Pak fans even though he was never a great bowler for any consistent period of time. Same with some others.

The alleged lack of respect for Ajmal comes down to the fact that he was essentially bowling unfairly and cheating as a consequence (unintentional or not). To add to that the long long litany of absolutely horrendous and unprofessional remarks from him have lost him goodwill.

This is my issue with him, had he been a more humble instead of blaming everyone else and carried himself with dignity post ban I would have had no issues as he did give a lot of good moments however his distasteful way of carrying himself since than has done him zero favors in being in most people's good books.

 

[Pete Rose]

I don't suffer from any such issues. The UWA testing protocol pretty much cleared every chucker who went for testing. While Ajmal was taking bucket loads of wickets using his javelin throwing skills, it looked like chucking throughout and kept getting worse. It took time for the testing protocol to catch up but I am glad it did.
I am glad him and future generation of Pakistani bowlers who might have been inspired by him will be no longer part if the game.
If that wasn't enough, then this constant 24/7 over the top sainthood granted to him on him being 'a team man'. 'happy go lucky' and other meaningless adjectives which run at counter to his true character which has been on display ever since his chucking came in to the limelight.
So yes people have a right to feel guilt or whatever emotion drives them to feel that they owe some loyalty to Ajmal, I feel no such thing.
The only thing I can grant him is that the ICC failed to act earlier. And this new testing protocol is a positive outcome of the new big three regime. I would have not happened in the past because of political correctness.

 

[volcyz]

*Gasp* Are you saying that he failed for once? How in the world could that happen?

Don't want to dig up more facts of failures.

 

[Zak_Fan]

Pakistani fans stuck with him for as long as they could. But there comes a point where you need to accept the reality. His recent bitter comments too haven't helped his reputation.

 

[Arham_PakFan]

Yep, way too selfish, but that's PP. My own stance on Ajmal is simple.

He was NOT a chucker until ICC put everyone through the new biomechanical tests. The reason is simple. Before the new tests, ICC tested him and cleared him. He started to bowl based on this impression and - in fact - everyone else also agreed. All batsmen, all officials, and all umpires. Bar some, maybe.

If ICC had these new tests available in the first place, he would be advised earlier of his action and he would change it. Now, at the age of 38+, it is too late. He cannot invest the next 3 years of his career in coming up with new deliveries and pace variations because he is not even going to last physically for that long internationally. New action or old action.

It is no different than having a speed limit of 100 KPH on a road revised down to 60 KPH. Those who drove in the past at, say, 90 KPH cannot be ticketed retrospectively for having broken the new limit.

I cannot express in words how much I agree with you.

Brilliant.

 

[#GreenRoars]

Never disrespected any cricketer, but it is our general norm that we love the cricketer who performs and our love quickly converted into hate if he don't.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

This thread is a call to show respect to a man who has given services to the country atleast. This is not a lobbying effort to bring him back into the team.

Bhai what's your views about those who are calling hafeez (who was marginally bowling above the 15 degree) a cheater in the other thread. On the other hand they want people to respect ajmal(who was bowling at 45 degree)?

 

[AlphaFighter]

Bhai what's your views about those who are calling hafeez (who was marginally bowling above the 15 degree) a cheater in the other thread. On the other hand they want people to respect ajmal(who was bowling at 45 degree)?

I never called Hafeez a cheat.

 

[WC-Passion]

I felt really sick seeing so much hate and pathetic comments regarding Ajmal when he was reported. Everyone turned their backs on him. He didn't even whine like usual cricketers. He stayed silent and worked on his action. And then he put his country in front of him and dropped himself out of the World Cup because he knew he wasn't good enough anymore. But what PPers do, they bashed him, Said he is a selfish jerk

So called Hardcore fans of Pakistan cricket

Great fans they are.

 

[zabalestmsm]

I don't suffer from any such issues. The UWA testing protocol pretty much cleared every chucker who went for testing. While Ajmal was taking bucket loads of wickets using his javelin throwing skills, it looked like chucking throughout and kept getting worse. It took time for the testing protocol to catch up but I am glad it did.
I am glad him and future generation of Pakistani bowlers who might have been inspired by him will be no longer part if the game.
If that wasn't enough, then this constant 24/7 over the top sainthood granted to him on him being 'a team man'. 'happy go lucky' and other meaningless adjectives which run at counter to his true character which has been on display ever since his chucking came in to the limelight.
So yes people have a right to feel guilt or whatever emotion drives them to feel that they owe some loyalty to Ajmal, I feel no such thing.
The only thing I can grant him is that the ICC failed to act earlier. And this new testing protocol is a positive outcome of the new big three regime. I would have not happened in the past because of political correctness.

Ajmal looked like chucking throughout according to u. But you wont use this term for Harbhajan because in his case u trust the umpires a lot and wont use this term until and unless he gets proven.

Wow.

 

[rooster]

I think he lost his respect not because of found chucking but by claiming he cannot bowl because of a broken arm(something like that) and blaming everyone around him like a schoolgirl.

 

[Pete Rose]

Ajmal looked like chucking throughout according to u. But you wont use this term for Harbhajan because in his case u trust the umpires a lot and wont use this term until and unless he gets proven.

Wow.

This retroactive obsession for Harbhajan comes from a few fans who were not even thinking about Harbhajan until Ajmal was called. So far he hasn't been called so I guess (a) the umpires are doing their job and (b) unlike Ajmal/Hafeez it's better to be selective and risk being ineffective vs chuck every ball and run the risk of being called. Not sure what your point is.

 

[zabalestmsm]

This retroactive obsession for Harbhajan comes from a few fans who were not even thinking about Harbhajan until Ajmal was called. So far he hasn't been called so I guess (a) the umpires are doing their job and (b) unlike Ajmal/Hafeez it's better to be selective and risk being ineffective vs chuck every ball and run the risk of being called. Not sure what your point is.

I had a discussion with u a month ago or so regarding suspicious actions. Where u said u wont call Harbhajan a chucker until and unless proven etc.

My point is why did u say regarding Ajmal that "he looked like chucking" while you wont use the same words for Harbhajan?

Its not an obsession with Harbhajan but pointing out your double standards.

 

[Pete Rose]

I had a discussion with u a month ago or so regarding suspicious actions. Where u said u wont call Harbhajan a chucker until and unless proven etc.

My point is why did u say regarding Ajmal that "he looked like chucking" while you wont use the same words for Harbhajan?

Its not an obsession with Harbhajan but pointing out your double standards.

I don't see double standards at all. One looks like he chucks and is proven to chuck and the other might or might not chuck. If you are asking me why I don't suspect harbhajan chucks, it's a question of which period: now? Or during the same period when both him and Ajmal were playing? Or firs ten years of his playing career before Ajmal was introduced to international cricket?

 

[Cricket lover 27]

I don't see double standards at all. One looks like he chucks and is proven to chuck and the other might or might not chuck. If you are asking me why I don't suspect harbhajan chucks, it's a question of which period: now? Or during the same period when both him and Ajmal were playing? Or firs ten years of his playing career before Ajmal was introduced to international cricket?

Safe to say you have lost the argument

 

[Bullet Drive]

Was smashed today by Mashrafe Mortaza

 

[Junaids]

Yep, way too selfish, but that's PP. My own stance on Ajmal is simple.

He was NOT a chucker until ICC put everyone through the new biomechanical tests. The reason is simple. Before the new tests, ICC tested him and cleared him. He started to bowl based on this impression and - in fact - everyone else also agreed. All batsmen, all officials, and all umpires. Bar some, maybe.

If ICC had these new tests available in the first place, he would be advised earlier of his action and he would change it. Now, at the age of 38+, it is too late. He cannot invest the next 3 years of his career in coming up with new deliveries and pace variations because he is not even going to last physically for that long internationally. New action or old action.

It is no different than having a speed limit of 100 KPH on a road revised down to 60 KPH. Those who drove in the past at, say, 90 KPH cannot be ticketed retrospectively for having broken the new limit.

This is highly selective, to say the least.

Saeed Ajmal is as old as Saqlain Mushtaq.

And there is a reason why none of us had even heard of him until he was 30. He was a very average off-spinner until he started to chuck. Then when people noticed that he was chucking, he claimed to have a deformity so it wasn't really chucking because he couldn't keep his arm straight.

He was cleared by the discredited UWA team - who even managed to clear Murali! - and continued to chuck to an ever-increasing degree.

Finally, as described by [MENTION=107807]Pete Rose[/MENTION], an unexpected consequence of the Big Three takeover was that they tackled chucking properly.

Hey presto, it turns out that he isn't disabled by a deformity and he is actually capable of bowling without chucking. But, just like when he was in his twenties, when he doesn't cheat he is mediocre.

 

[Theo_14]

[MENTION=9]Saj[/MENTION] your views?

 

[Pete Rose]

Safe to say you have lost the argument

Yes it would seem to so, no less by you.

 

[Ironcat]

This is highly selective, to say the least.

Saeed Ajmal is as old as Saqlain Mushtaq.

And there is a reason why none of us had even heard of him until he was 30. He was a very average off-spinner until he started to chuck. Then when people noticed that he was chucking, he claimed to have a deformity so it wasn't really chucking because he couldn't keep his arm straight.

He was cleared by the discredited UWA team - who even managed to clear Murali! - and continued to chuck to an ever-increasing degree.

Finally, as described by [MENTION=107807]Pete Rose[/MENTION], an unexpected consequence of the Big Three takeover was that they tackled chucking properly.

Hey presto, it turns out that he isn't disabled by a deformity and he is actually capable of bowling without chucking. But, just like when he was in his twenties, when he doesn't cheat he is mediocre.

Err, the "discredited" UWA team was officially sanctioned by the ICC to clear spinners. They cleared him. He was made to believe he had a clean action and he acted under that belief.

Big three came along, changed the testing procedures, and found his and several other players' actions not complying with the new tests. He was asked to change his action, and he did. Whether he performs well with the new action or not is irrelevant for determining whether he is chucking. He changed it and now ICC has no problem with his action. Goes on to prove that if ICC had asked him earlier he could have changed it earlier.

Several other points in your post are very poor arguments:

1. "He was average offspinner until he started to chuck." Provide proof. He had been performing when ICC cleared him a while back.

2. "He claimed to have a deformity." ICC's prior clearance under their own testing recognized his medical condition. ICC tested him with this medical condition known to them. Under the new tests, however, that medical condition is no longer allowed as a valid reason to not being able to keep the arm's straightening under 15 degrees. Under the old tests, it did.

3. "Saqlain is as old as Ajmal." Yet, Saqlain's career ended 8 years ago because the batsmen figured him out. He knew his body would not be able to take on investing in new deliveries. That means nothing for what other players can or cannot do at their respective ages.

 

[Boom boom legend]

Show Saeed Ajmal some respect

I see people all over this forum referring to Saeed Ajmal as 'the chucker' and find it extremely disrespectful to the man and his achievements. He was such a good spinner and best in the world, yet people seem to throw away all that he achieved as if it was done by fluke.
He was part of the 2009 t20 win and played an integral role in all formats for the next 5 years. Absolutely bamboozled batsmen and destroyed England when they came to the UAE. I feel this was the turning point in his career, as they were so bitter about it and turned everyone against him.
There are many spinners out there who get away with it but in my opinion because he is Pakistani he is targeted more than others. This is something he has said himself and also says batsmen were scared of playing him.
So if you are not a fan of his fair enough, but can people refer to him by his name and not 'the chucker'

 

[msb314]

Great in ODI's but average/just above average in Tests.

Probably not an ATG in the grand scheme of things - still was a great spinner for us between 2010-2014 but time to move on.

 

[ads101]

It's sad he's gone. It is rather frustrating that with the new tests he's way over the allowed limit, yet the old tests somehow he was legal. Chucker or not, it does actually take a lot of skill to do what he did even if you chucked.

Feel he should be happy with what he achieved in cricket. Not his fault, he was deemed legal before.

It's funny how people are so vocal against 'chuckers'. They don't even cheat intentionally. If they are found to be above the limit, ban them and let them remodel their action so they can come back again. A bigger issue for me is ball tampering which I feel is rampant yet I often feel cricket just turns a blind eye to it. It's cheating. Yes we're in a batting favoured era, and bowlers benefit from some help but it's unfair. If one team cheats and ball tampers they have an advantage over the other who doesn't. Best thing is just to create more bowling friendly pitches. Still think while some may do it legitimately, think a lot of reverse swing is due to people tampering with the ball.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

No one is denying that he was a great limited overs bowler but at the end of the day he was a chucker. What I really hate is victim Pakistan fans who try to defend his action and think his ban was part of some plan by BCCI/ICC to damage our cricket

 

[Jabo]

A lot of people bashing him

Cheating or not

He won you a ton of games

 

[Yanna_Rascala]

I have an issue with people who only refer to him as chucker and not by his name. We all know who those people are and it's pathetic that they show utter disrespect towards him.

 

[HussainRx8]

Based on transitivity property,

Saeed Ajmal = Chucker;
Chucking = Cheating;
Saeed Ajmal = Cheater.

 

[CricFan2012]

A lot of people bashing him

Cheating or not

He won you a ton of games

Personally I think he deserves being bashed.

Before he was banned for chucking I actually liked him as a player, I was led to believe he was a clean and fair bowler bowling Pakistan to victory, who was being called a chucker by jealous Indians and neutrals because of his deformity.

I was wrong, and all of my Indian fans laughed at me for supporting a chucker. It's embarassing supporting someone like that and turning up wrong.

The fact that he still bowled legal deliveries in that Zimbabwe series after talking about how his deformity was hindering him is suspicious, to the extent where it seems he was lying.

Supporting a bowler who had chucked from 2011-2014, taking wickets and winning us matches, now those matches and wickets are being discredited by many cricket lovers because its proven he had been chucking. I honestly feel bad to batsmen and teams who lost majority because of Ajmals bowling from 2011-2014. They weren't facing someone who was legit at their profession.

Still supporting Ajmal, comparing him to fair spin greats such as Saqlain and Warne just seems wrong to me.

Still supporting Ajmal is like still supporting your mentor who had cheated his way to a high position job, who's cheating was finally known which resulted in that mentors firing.

Still supporting Ajmal is like still supporting Lance Armstrong and putting his name next to other greats.

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

Great matchwinner but ultimately a chucker. He probably stopped the emergence of a number of new spinners who do not chuck.

But how can I villify a man who was instrumental in us winning the ODI series in SA and Aane Do series. I just can't.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Always maintained that he was a chucker. But then ICC allowed him to chuck so no point blaming him really . It was the ICCs fault for not strictly enforcing the rules. For nearly a decade ICC allowed such abominable bowling actions to flourish and he simply took advantage of it better than others. Credit to him for that.

 

[kingusama92]

Can't feel bad for him.

He's lucky to have had a career and made as much money as he has.

BUT, he doesn't deserve disrespect. He put in the hard yards (using whatever means) and helped Pakistan win many matches.

 

[Abdullah]

A Pakistani odi great with some great performances in tests too.
Loved the fight he had.
Goof luck to him

 

[enigmatic_stani]

I think it's the fact that he lied about his action that irked Pak fans. I believe he said something along the lines of a car accident being responsible for him not being able to straighten his arm which he was magically able to do once he was banned and had to remodel his action.

 

[#GreenRoars]

No body dislike him for his chucking issues, people dislike him due to his stupid statements on media

 

[Pete Rose]

No body dislike him for his chucking issues, people dislike him due to his stupid statements on media

That came later (i.e., stupid statements, dispute with the University on the land, accusations of charging for coaching etc). As others mention above, for me the issue was honesty while he was bowling (claiming he had special dispensation by ICC because of a freak accident).
But I can empathize with his dramatic change in fortunes.

 

[Bewal Express]

Whether he was chucking or not at his peak is irrelevant, he was allowed to bowl and he was very effective. Since the new interpretation, his bowling is ineffective and hence we move on. Ultimately it's a game of statistics and his are no longer any good.

 

[Mamoon]

Deserves all the humiliation he has received in the last couple of years. He is a cheat who should not have played International cricket in the first place.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Pakistani fans have been too harsh on him to be honest. At least he came back with a clean action. Hafeez, on the other hand, was caught chucking again and the myth that he is good enough to be on the team on the basis of his batting alone has been busted big time.

 

[AlphaFighter]

Can't feel bad for him.

He's lucky to have had a career and made as much money as he has.

BUT, he doesn't deserve disrespect. He put in the hard yards (using whatever means) and helped Pakistan win many matches.

Actually. ICC changed its rules in 2014, prior to that rule change flexibility were allowed for bowlers. Under these rules god knows how many bowlers who played in the past would be called for suspect actions. Murli wouldn't even have a career in these current rules. I personally think given how batting friendly conditions have become and also given that the balance between bat and ball is not fair, bowlers should be allowed some leeway.

 

[Zeeraq]

I get why fans will not rate him and they don't like him but calling him a chucker instead of his name is bad and I have seen a lot of posters do it. Everyone should show him some respect as it's not on him that he was allowed to play.

Who knows how many bowlers in the past got away with it when the rules were not strict?

 

[Mainul]

very valid point. I still love Ajmal though his deliveries are not effective like before. He gave us a lot of delight.

 

[Executioner]

From a neutral POV he recieved un-necessary stick from Pakistan fans.

He was the one who helped Pakistan be a quality side in LoIs. Ever since his ban, Pakistan have struggled quite a bit in the shorter formats of the game. Also, he was instrumental in many test wins for Pakistan.

He did however made baseless comments after his ban, but you might have no clue what he was going through when he got banned. Top bowler in the world, and then you are labelled as a chucker all of a sudden. This is a tough pill to swallow.

 

[Theo_14]

Bump.

Understand his action was not legal but I maintain that some used such words that even Amir did not receive when he was caught fixing.

Thanks for the good memories Ajmal, a fantastic character and fantastic performances on the pitch.

 

[Azzurri]

Ajmal is a legend. Who cares about some nobody armchair critics. Our best offspinner alongside saqlain

 

[DRsohail]

his stats shows that hes served his country and did leave on his own.he obeyed tha rules and regulations and did not deliberately chucked after he was banned.well done champ.

 

[waleed88]

He should've found a halal way to bowl his deliveries like Hafeez did, but still within the extent of 15 degrees. I think I blame it on Saqlain, he completely changed Ajmal's original bowling action making him bowl side on. Regardless of what Ajmal was, he wasn't bowling like he used to and within the laws he was ineffective. He should've got his lessons from Hafeez rather than Saqlain

End of a fantastic career nontheless, only bowler in Pak history to be no.1 in ODIs, and t20s, I'm not sure about tests

 

[Hasan123]

He gets hate because he was caught cheating.

 

[shaaik]

Yep, way too selfish, but that's PP. My own stance on Ajmal is simple.

He was NOT a chucker until ICC put everyone through the new biomechanical tests. The reason is simple. Before the new tests, ICC tested him and cleared him. He started to bowl based on this impression and - in fact - everyone else also agreed. All batsmen, all officials, and all umpires. Bar some, maybe.

If ICC had these new tests available in the first place, he would be advised earlier of his action and he would change it. Now, at the age of 38+, it is too late. He cannot invest the next 3 years of his career in coming up with new deliveries and pace variations because he is not even going to last physically for that long internationally. New action or old action.

It is no different than having a speed limit of 100 KPH on a road revised down to 60 KPH. Those who drove in the past at, say, 90 KPH cannot be ticketed retrospectively for having broken the new limit.

POTW for me.. exactly how I see it as well ..