How the most vocal critics of Pakistan Cricket, Mohammad Amir and Imad Wasim lost us two games directly in the World T20 2024

[emranabbas]

Hope @DeadlyVenom is watching india vs USA
This is how a test nation plays USA not take it to the superover

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Hope @DeadlyVenom is watching india vs USA
This is how a test nation plays USA not take it to the superover

I'm not watching. Can't bring myself to support India.

Based on what you have seen so far, do you think IF it did go to super over that Indian bowlers would bowl boomerang balls like Amir did?

 

[shariqnoor]

The super over was bad—everyone knows that—but blaming Amir alone is the issue here. We wouldn't have even been in the super over if Shaheen had caught the first ball of the last over or if Harris hadn't conceded 15 runs in the final over. People like @DeadlyVenom keep ignoring that fact because it does not fit their agenda

In the USA match, the entire team had a stinker. However, Pakistan still did not lose in the 40 overs of normal play. It was a tie. Pakistan lost the match in the Super Over. And Amir was the culprit. So yes the blame will go to Amir. No amount of whataboutery can take away the fact that it was Amir who was responsible for bowling a 9 ball over and conceding 18 runs. That too against a minnow. This will be a forever stain on his legacy coupled with spot-fixing. He can never whitewash this.

 

[mominsaigol]

In the USA match, the entire team had a stinker. However, Pakistan still did not lose in the 40 overs of normal play. It was a tie. Pakistan lost the match in the Super Over. And Amir was the culprit. So yes the blame will go to Amir. No amount of whataboutery can take away the fact that it was Amir who was responsible for bowling a 9 ball over and conceding 18 runs. That too against a minnow. This will be a forever stain on his legacy coupled with spot-fixing. He can never whitewash this.

Not really no, Ct 2017 win will be the biggest achievement and spot fixing his biggest downfall.

No one will care about this. No one really remembers the 2nd event.

Even 2009 t20 wc which is amir's 2nd greatest achievement and USA game which is his 2nd biggest stain won't really be remembered and are glossed over. Infact when people talk about 2009 they mostly forget amir's bowling and talk about YK as captain mostly followed by oathgate.

This usa game is very forgettable in hindsight, 10 years from now it'll be seen as a game with a bunch of random scorecard names.

 

[Mamoon]

In the USA match, the entire team had a stinker. However, Pakistan still did not lose in the 40 overs of normal play. It was a tie. Pakistan lost the match in the Super Over. And Amir was the culprit. So yes the blame will go to Amir. No amount of whataboutery can take away the fact that it was Amir who was responsible for bowling a 9 ball over and conceding 18 runs. That too against a minnow. This will be a forever stain on his legacy coupled with spot-fixing. He can never whitewash this.

Pakistan would still have been in the same position had they not selected Amir and Imad and that would have been the right thing to do.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Not really no, Ct 2017 win will be the biggest achievement and spot fixing his biggest downfall.

No one will care about this. No one really remembers the 2nd event.

Even 2009 t20 wc which is amir's 2nd greatest achievement and USA game which is his 2nd biggest stain won't really be remembered and are glossed over. Infact when people talk about 2009 they mostly forget amir's bowling and talk about YK as captain mostly followed by oathgate.

This usa game is very forgettable in hindsight, 10 years from now it'll be seen as a game with a bunch of random scorecard names.

The match will be forgotten but the memory of the worst superover in cricket history will remain alive. Future generations of bowlers will study it to ensure that such an almighty choke is never repeated.

 

[mominsaigol]

The match will be forgotten but the memory of the worst superover in cricket history will remain alive. Future generations of bowlers will study it to ensure that such an almighty choke is never repeated.

Worst Super over in history is WI vs Nedtherlands.

It's only remaining in your memory, trust me, 5 years is enough to forget this.

Without searching the Internet and excluding Pakistan matches as your a Pakistani fan so you'll obviously have the knowledge which bad super overs are in your memory?

even the Zimbabwe super over is 100x worse then this one. Put opinions aside and review the actual data. This is the one place you can actually use statistics to justify claims

 

[Statpadder Inc]

Not really no, Ct 2017 win will be the biggest achievement and spot fixing his biggest downfall.

No one will care about this. No one really remembers the 2nd event.

Even 2009 t20 wc which is amir's 2nd greatest achievement and USA game which is his 2nd biggest stain won't really be remembered and are glossed over. Infact when people talk about 2009 they mostly forget amir's bowling and talk about YK as captain mostly followed by oathgate.

This usa game is very forgettable in hindsight, 10 years from now it'll be seen as a game with a bunch of random scorecard names.

Nah absolutely disagree, the USA match will always be remembered. Probably the biggest upset in cricket history

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Nah absolutely disagree, the USA match will always be remembered. Probably the biggest upset in cricket history

He will remember it when someone mentions Babars captaincy record.

But conveniently wants the stain wiped away from Amirs legacy.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Worst Super over in history is WI vs Nedtherlands.

It's only remaining in your memory, trust me, 5 years is enough to forget this.

Without searching the Internet and excluding Pakistan matches as your a Pakistani fan so you'll obviously have the knowledge which bad super overs are in your memory?

even the Zimbabwe super over is 100x worse then this one. Put opinions aside and review the actual data. This is the one place you can actually use statistics to justify claims

We don't need data to see that Amir fumbled and choked so badly he couldn't land legal deliveries.

 

[mominsaigol]

Nah absolutely disagree, the USA match will always be remembered. Probably the biggest upset in cricket history

Biggest upset in cricket history is Zimbabwe beating classic Australia.

USA beat Bangladesh and Pakistan came off a series where they were trolled by C team NZ, butchered by A team NZ, trolled by Ireland and dog walked in 2023 and against Australia in test in other formats.

Classic Australia on the other hand was unbeatable and dogwalked every team so to lose to the weakest team at the time was an utter shame.

 

[mominsaigol]

He will remember it when someone mentions Babars captaincy record.

But conveniently wants the stain wiped away from Amirs legacy.

Bro you gotta stop this he nonsense, you can address me directly when I'm right here.

My point was it'll be forgotten plain and simple. Babar ain't captaining forever and what I remember or what you remember does not matter.

You and I don't constitute as the future generation, you especially, me less so, but I'll get their eventually, can't stop aging and growing older.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Bro you gotta stop this he nonsense, you can address me directly when I'm right here.

My point was it'll be forgotten plain and simple. Babar ain't captaining forever and what I remember or what you remember does not matter.

You and I don't constitute as the future generation, you especially, me less so, but I'll get their eventually, can't stop aging and growing older.

Some things go down in cricket history books.

 

[pratiktc]

You guys are incredible. Mohammad Amir was the reason why USA match went to Super over. The blame for that match should go to Haris Rauf who conceded 12 runs in 3 balls. Amir was incredible in the second match also and was very unlucky in his first over.

Similarly Imad Wasim is a bowling all rounder, his job isn't to score runs. Bloke bowled his overs to both lefties including Pant who's a monster to left arm bowlers and still didn't conceded too many runs.

Both of them are hardly responsible for your first two matches.

Too much apologism here.

A case can be made that Amir was probably Pak's smartest seamer (worked out the lengths, used cutter well) across the three matches and bowled creditably. This is a fair argumeny

However, Amir also delivered an all time stinker of a super over against an associate team. This is an undeniable fact. He was the last Pak player who had a chance to bring 2 pts back for Pak and he bottled it spectacularly because lets face it 19 wasnt being chased in a super over unless USA also had an Amir style meltdown.

Imad was pure crap. He was sent in at 5 on reputation and on account of his left handedness with a view towards rotating singles and being a threat against the last over of left arm spin that India had to bowl. In both instances he failed utterly. Not only did he chew up balls against Bumrah and Pandya but he wasted an entire over of Axar without being able to lay bat on ball. Pak would have been better off sending Haris to swing across the line blindly against Axar.

 

[Statpadder Inc]

Biggest upset in cricket history is Zimbabwe beating classic Australia.

USA beat Bangladesh and Pakistan came off a series where they were trolled by C team NZ, butchered by A team NZ, trolled by Ireland and dog walked in 2023 and against Australia in test in other formats.

Classic Australia on the other hand was unbeatable and dogwalked every team so to lose to the weakest team at the time was an utter shame.

T20 cricket was brand new in 2007 and most teams still didn't get the hang of it and Zimbabwe were a proper cricketing nation with test status.

USA is an associate nation playing a wc for the 1st time ever filled with software engineers and other part timers

 

[Mamoon]

T20 cricket was brand new in 2007 and most teams still didn't get the hang of it and Zimbabwe were a proper cricketing nation with test status.

USA is an associate nation playing a wc for the 1st time ever filled with software engineers and other part timers

You are talking to someone who wasn’t even born in 2007. He won’t understand the context.

The fact that he thinks 2007 T20 World Cup was “classic” Australia says it all really. It was an over the hill Australian team full of their great players that dominated cricket for 7 years but they were on the way out and a new format at this stage of their careers was a bit too much for them.

Zimbabwe beating Australia was not even amongst the top 5 biggest upsets in history, let alone the biggest.

 

[mominsaigol]

Some things go down in cricket history books.

Everything goes down in cricket history books ny guy.

You can search a random 1930 Don Bradman era match, doesn't mean people will have interest

 

[mominsaigol]

T20 cricket was brand new in 2007 and most teams still didn't get the hang of it and Zimbabwe were a proper cricketing nation with test status.

USA is an associate nation playing a wc for the 1st time ever filled with software engineers and other part timers

Doesn't really matter. Those are just titles. Pakistan is coming off the back of getting trolled by associated while USA is coming off the back of butchering bangaldesh.

By this logic Afghanistan humiliating nz has to be one of the worst upsets ever but you won't say that infact use excuses for it saying how nz is out of practise and what not.

2007 Australia has an insane reputation so losing to t20 doesn't matter, Zimbabwe was also playing t20 in that era and were new towards it and no one believed they'd pull of even a single win in their life time, Whereas if over here dozens upon dozens of posters already predicted usa would beat pak.

Infact the sentiment which is surprising is that people view Pakistan beating Canada as an upset.

The general sentiment was that usa beating pak is not an upset.

 

[Statpadder Inc]

Doesn't really matter. Those are just titles. Pakistan is coming off the back of getting trolled by associated while USA is coming off the back of butchering bangaldesh.

By this logic Afghanistan humiliating nz has to be one of the worst upsets ever but you won't say that infact use excuses for it saying how nz is out of practise and what not.

2007 Australia has an insane reputation so losing to t20 doesn't matter, Zimbabwe was also playing t20 in that era and were new towards it and no one believed they'd pull of even a single win in their life time, Whereas if over here dozens upon dozens of posters already predicted usa would beat pak.

Infact the sentiment which is surprising is that people view Pakistan beating Canada as an upset.

The general sentiment was that usa beating pak is not an upset.

That Australia team had an insane reputation in odis and tests not in t20s, Zimbabwe were a team who had already beaten the big boys over the years, they had a bigger reputation than Usa, a proper test playing nation.

Guys like ponting and clarke were in no world great t20 players, they couldn't cope with the new format.

I am sorry but no one would consider zim defeating aus to be the biggest upset in cricket history

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Doesn't really matter. Those are just titles. Pakistan is coming off the back of getting trolled by associated while USA is coming off the back of butchering bangaldesh.

By this logic Afghanistan humiliating nz has to be one of the worst upsets ever but you won't say that infact use excuses for it saying how nz is out of practise and what not.

2007 Australia has an insane reputation so losing to t20 doesn't matter, Zimbabwe was also playing t20 in that era and were new towards it and no one believed they'd pull of even a single win in their life time, Whereas if over here dozens upon dozens of posters already predicted usa would beat pak.

Infact the sentiment which is surprising is that people view Pakistan beating Canada as an upset.

The general sentiment was that usa beating pak is not an upset.

You have spent a lot of time and effort and mental gymnastics to try and justify what is widely acknowledged as the worst super over of all time.

 

[mominsaigol]

That Australia team had an insane reputation in odis and tests not in t20s, Zimbabwe were a team who had already beaten the big boys over the years, they had a bigger reputation than Usa, a proper test playing nation.

Guys like ponting and clarke were in no world great t20 players, they couldn't cope with the new format.

I am sorry but no one would consider zim defeating aus to be the biggest upset in cricket history

Bro trust me alot of people do. Heck just a Google search will have it added in a list.

The whole point is that it's an opinion not a fact.

@DeadlyVenom considering usa vs Pakistan to be the most humiliating is his opinion which is respectable but it isnt factual.

Theirs no objective measure of what's worse. Regardless usa vs Pakistan won't be remembered like people think. It'll be forgotten by most except pakistani fans who'll cling onto it like the plague.

 

[mominsaigol]

You can come back in one year, 5 years or 10 years if that makes you happy and it will still be the worst super over of all time.

K, Chacha will be the worst finisher Pakistan has ever had if that makes you happy, but who knows maybe in 10 years azam replaces him full time and saves this gesture

 

[jnaveen1980]

I think Imad wasim will look better in West Indian pitches. We have to see how Amir goes on those pitches in the next round.

 

[Sherazkhalid]

Amir was reason the match went to super over . Imad bowled perfectly yesterday . His batting was questionable. Amir spell against India was brilliant too . Let’s hide Babar’s short comings by blaming Amir and imad

More like Amir had won it for us and Rauf took it to super over, and then tbf don't think Amir has stamina to bowl more then 4 overs but since he was in the best form it went to him and yes game shouldn't have gone to super over.

 

[Sherazkhalid]

I think Imad wasim will look better in West Indian pitches. We have to see how Amir goes on those pitches in the next round.

We may not get to see it though

 

[Mamoon]

Amir had 4 byes in his over that was due to terrible keeping/fielding. Still not great but 14 runs is definitely not the worst super over.

Archers super over against New Zealand in the final where he let them score 15 was much worse. Had he not been saved by some brilliant fielding/ throw from the English fielders and a fluke boundary count rule his rubbish career would have ended then.

I see that you still get nightmares of Archer when you go to sleep.

The challenge for you is to talk about any topic in the world without rerouting it to your favorite obsession that is Archer.

I can ask you about your favorite fruit and you will manage to end up expressing how much you are obsessed with him.

The fact that you think his World Cup final Super Over vs NZ was “much worse” than Amir’s Super Over vs USA shows that you have 0 cricket sense and you are also incredibly biased and full of hatred but we know that already.

I have seen many, many awful hot takes over the years and years on this forum but this one is surely right up there.

 

[Mamoon]

Ok 11 imads batted and 5 amir's bowled 4 overs each. They also fielded every position on ground and dropped multiple catches these 2 are the reason we are out of the world cup

Before these 2 got in the team we won every single series since 2021

We beat Afghanistan black and blue in WC23

We beat India black and blue too

We won the worldcup 23

we were the winners of the asia cup 2023

We won the wc22 and didnt had to rely on others teams to beat others teams to qualify

We beat zimbabwe and india in WC22

We were the Asian champions

These 2 have come back in the team and we have started losing oh no

Pakistan made the final in 2022 under the same captain + the same players.

Now Pakistan is on the brink of elimination under the same captain + the same players + the addition of Amir and Imad who were brought back for their experience and mentality.

These two players have showed that they can only run their mouths on tv because they are only as bad as the rest.

 

[emranabbas]

Pakistan made the final in 2022 under the same captain + the same players.

Now Pakistan is on the brink of elimination under the same captain + the same players + the addition of Amir and Imad who were brought back for their experience and mentality.

These two players have showed that they can only run their mouths on tv because they are only as bad as the rest.

Have a rest pakistan made the final because Netherlands beat South Africa or else pakistan was out.

Finalists don't lose to zimbabwe

It was a FLUKE

 

[cricketmania22]

Have a rest pakistan made the final because Netherlands beat South Africa or else pakistan was out.

Finalists don't lose to zimbabwe

It was a FLUKE

England lost to Zimbabwe in 1992 WC. Just saying..

 

[emranabbas]

England lost to Zimbabwe in 1992 WC. Just saying..

If you compare Zimbabwe of the 1990s to Zimbabwe today, the difference is like night and day.

 

[mominsaigol]

England lost to Zimbabwe in 1992 WC. Just saying..

Sides can fluke tournaments and qualify here and their, no one disagrees with that.

Pakistan managed to beat nedtherlands, Drs favoured them with sa, and the rest was in gods hands until semi's which was put of their control.

Bamgaldesh resulted in Muhammad haris coming through for them with NZ dropping babar's catch and rizwan coming through for Pakistan.

Pakistan struggled in every game and got respite but yes they reached the final. Even ct 2017 had alot of luck with sa game and Sri lanka botch.

England . also got lucky in the finals against nz, Australia in 2023 got lucky that Afghanistan didn't catch maxwell on 29.

Main point is this imad and Amir is a false equivalence fallacy that's reached ad nauseum due to idiots.

 

[cricketmania22]

If you compare Zimbabwe of the 1990s to Zimbabwe today, the difference is like night and day.

Not really. They lost all of their matches except for England match. They were not even a test playing nation in 1992.

 

[Farabi]

I remember back in 2023, Amir and Imad kept throwing every kind of insult at the team when they were invited as experts to give their analysis on Pakistan Cricket.

9 months later, both are bought back in the team after they have their conditions negotiated with the new chairman, and than what happened next everyone knows.

-Amir ends up bottling a super over where he gets smack for 19 runs by an Associate nation. In the process he gives 3 wides and was shouting at his own team mates.

-Imad ends up playing Axar Patel for 4 dot balls as he was unable to hit the ball and was trying to dab him on the offside and missed every single thing. Pakistan would eventually end up losing because of Imad's pathetic batting at the middle order.

The two biggest critics end up being at the forefront of the most important time. Had they won the game, it would had been all praises, yet when they are involved at the losses, certain fans are looking for someone else to blame.

I think after this World Cup, alot of these cricketers will be careful when opening their mouths on TV.

Let's focus on being objective and genuine here. If there are other reasons why they shouldn't be on the team, that's understandable. However, their performance has been surprisingly good.

Imad and Amir have actually outperformed their replacements. Historically, Shadab and Hassan Ali have shown vulnerabilities.

Amir, alongside Naseem, has been the most impactful pacer. Meanwhile, Imad has brought the control that Pakistan has lacked in the middle overs.

Regarding batting, the defeat to India cannot be solely blamed on Imad when the entire batting lineup collapsed.

 

[Farabi]

You guys are incredible. Mohammad Amir was the reason why USA match went to Super over. The blame for that match should go to Haris Rauf who conceded 12 runs in 3 balls. Amir was incredible in the second match also and was very unlucky in his first over.

Similarly Imad Wasim is a bowling all rounder, his job isn't to score runs. Bloke bowled his overs to both lefties including Pant who's a monster to left arm bowlers and still didn't conceded too many runs.

Both of them are hardly responsible for your first two matches.

In Pakistan, folks were backwards from their liking/disliking when analyzing games.

 

[cricketmania22]

Sides can fluke tournaments and qualify here and their, no one disagrees with that.

Pakistan managed to beat nedtherlands, Drs favoured them with sa, and the rest was in gods hands until semi's which was put of their control.

Bamgaldesh resulted in Muhammad haris coming through for them with NZ dropping babar's catch and rizwan coming through for Pakistan.

Pakistan struggled in every game and got respite but yes they reached the final. Even ct 2017 had alot of luck with sa game and Sri lanka botch.

England . also got lucky in the finals against nz, Australia in 2023 got lucky that Afghanistan didn't catch maxwell on 29.

Main point is this imad and Amir is a false equivalence fallacy that's reached ad nauseum due to idiots.

Losing to an associate team doesn’t mean you can’t reach the finals. Key is to continue playing good cricket and of course at times you need luck also.

 

[mominsaigol]

Losing to an associate team doesn’t mean you can’t reach the finals. Key is to continue playing good cricket and of course at times you need luck also.

Ik, I disagree with what @emranabbas said about not being able to reach a final by losing to an associate . But I agree with him on luck factors and flukes.

By this logic Australia wouldn't have reached the final if Afghanistan dismissed maxwell on 29. Australia put themselves in a vulnerable position where they had no choice but to win all games, and afg game was lost, Maxwell may have played an atg innings but that doesn't mean we forgoe the respite given to him on 29

 

[cricketmania22]

Ik, I disagree with what @emranabbas said about not being able to reach a final by losing to an associate . But I agree with him on luck factors and flukes.

By this logic Australia wouldn't have reached the final if Afghanistan dismissed maxwell on 29. Australia put themselves in a vulnerable position where they had no choice but to win all games, and afg game was lost, Maxwell may have played an atg innings but that doesn't mean we forgoe the respite given to him on 29

Many countries have won the world cups with massive luck in their favor. In the end it’s about wining and losing, doesn’t matter how you win.

 

[mominsaigol]

Many countries have won the world cups with massive luck in their favor. In the end it’s about wining and losing, doesn’t matter how you win.

I'm aware but skills do come into play. While this is luck, Theirs also a skill gap tree.

2022 team had bowling which got through. Its what saved Pakistan many times. The bowling is a skill set.

2024 doesn't have the bowling but has crap batting. Max qudrat ki nizam let's us get into super 8 but nothing beyond that. Furthermore 2024 Australia and 2024 sa and 2024 afg > their 2022 counterparts and super 8 add ons means the door is shut.

No matter how much luck you give Uganda, they ain't ever winning a cup, not until they close the skill gap. 2022 had the luxury of shadab actually being a decent spinner, Shaheen being a world class new ball bowlers, Naseem being a terrific defense bowler and rauf being a solid wicket taker.

Now shaheen is a full toss galore. Shadab is so bad that he doesn't even tend to bowl and only play as a specialist bat. Chacha always sucked but his 2024 self is worse as his reactions are now flown into the oceon abyss.

2024 team is weaker then 2022 team by every metric as it has a weaker middle order, and weaker bowlers. Adding imad and Amir in over nawaz and hasan Ali would never let you cover the fact that 9 out of 11 players are just weaker this time around, more unfit and etc. Plus Amir and imad aren't world beaters.

It's just idk why this turned into such a war and accusation where people are assuming just because we appreciate that inad has finally replaced nawaz and Amir has replaced hasan, we think their world beaters.

These 2 weren't even in my team of the tournament?

 

[cricketmania22]

I'm aware but skills do come into play. While this is luck, Theirs also a skill gap tree.

2022 team had bowling which got through. Its what saved Pakistan many times. The bowling is a skill set.

2024 doesn't have the bowling but has crap batting. Max qudrat ki nizam let's us get into super 8 but nothing beyond that. Furthermore 2024 Australia and 2024 sa and 2024 afg > their 2022 counterparts and super 8 add ons means the door is shut.

No matter how much luck you give Uganda, they ain't ever winning a cup, not until they close the skill gap. 2022 had the luxury of shadab actually being a decent spinner, Shaheen being a world class new ball bowlers, Naseem being a terrific defense bowler and rauf being a solid wicket taker.

Now shaheen is a full toss galore. Shadab is so bad that he doesn't even tend to bowl and only play as a specialist bat. Chacha always sucked but his 2024 self is worse as his reactions are now flown into the oceon abyss.

2024 team is weaker then 2022 team by every metric as it has a weaker middle order, and weaker bowlers. Adding imad and Amir in over nawaz and hasan Ali would never let you cover the fact that 9 out of 11 players are just weaker this time around, more unfit and etc. Plus Amir and imad aren't world beaters.

It's just idk why this turned into such a war and accusation where people are assuming just because we appreciate that inad has finally replaced nawaz and Amir has replaced hasan, we think their world beaters.

These 2 weren't even in my team of the tournament?

I don’t know the exact story behind Amir and Imad, so I can’t really say that much.

I very much agree with you on the comparison part. We are a weaker team now. Iftikhar and Shadab were actually useful back then. Actually we were unlucky to lose to India in 2022 WC, this time we just batted poorly.

 

[mominsaigol]

I don’t know the exact story behind Amir and Imad, so I can’t really say that much.

I very much agree with you on the comparison part. We are a weaker team now. Iftikhar and Shadab were actually useful back then. Actually we were unlucky to lose to India in 2022 WC, this time we just batted poorly.

Everything has dwindled. Babar and rizwan may be performing better on paper but 2021-2022 they weren't that bad. No one knows what happened however they were always great at scoring and smashing sides like nedtherlands and Zimbabwe. They were kings of c string bashing hence bang, ned, And Zimbabwe shpuld have been a mauling from Babar and rizwan as even in 2023 babar and rizwan mauled a c string NZ side which did feature Mitchell, Latham, matt Henry etc.

Everything changed since the India asia cup 2023 game where India seems to have completly shattered babar and rizwan into 2 pieces, where now they aren't even working and bashing c strings, At best their going run a ball or failing altogether.

Fakhar got dropped in 2022 for Haris who came good in that tournament but now he doesn't have any replacements and he's been poor at no 4.

Saim, azam and Usman have been useless additions with chacha being worse now much worse same with shadab.

Shaheen, naseem and Rauf are also just terrible this time around.

As for imad, imad has always been a better player then nawaz who also failed in 2022 but in the context of the asia cup nawaz did better atleast. Amir has been decent but poor in a super over and he just isn't gonna make a difference alone. He's an improvement to hasan Ali from 2021 otherwise nothing matters.

2024 is poorer by every metric while other teams like sa, Aus, Afg etc are stronger by ever metric coupled with the fact we now have super 8 meaning tougher requirements to enter into semi's so it's a no shot.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Amir had 4 byes in his over that was due to terrible keeping/fielding. Still not great but 14 runs is definitely not the worst super over.

Archers super over against New Zealand in the final where he let them score 15 was much worse. Had he not been saved by some brilliant fielding/ throw from the English fielders and a fluke boundary count rule his rubbish career would have ended then.

That was a bad over too but ultimately his team won the game.

 

[Forum363]

That was a bad over too but ultimately his team won the game.

If the throw from the boundary had been a little wide, if the keeper hadn’t collected and broken the stumps and if there hadn’t been the super flukey rule about boundary count, his team wouldn’t have won. So it wasn’t due to him.

Amir had his four extra runs given away that made all the difference.

 

[Mamoon]

Have a rest pakistan made the final because Netherlands beat South Africa or else pakistan was out.

Finalists don't lose to zimbabwe

It was a FLUKE

Who asked South Africa to lose to Pakistan and Netherlands?

Who asked New Zealand to lose the semifinal to Pakistan?

 

[emranabbas]

Who asked South Africa to lose to Pakistan and Netherlands?

Who asked New Zealand to lose the semifinal to Pakistan?

Who asked the rain to fall and cancel out zimbabwe vs south africa

@mominsaigol

 

[Rana]

Who asked South Africa to lose to Pakistan and Netherlands?

Who asked New Zealand to lose the semifinal to Pakistan?

Who asked the number 3 and 4 ranked T20i batters in the world to not come and bat for their country in the super over against journeyman Natravalker?

 

[Mamoon]

Who asked the rain to fall and cancel out zimbabwe vs south africa

@mominsaigol

South Africa would not have been eliminated had they defeated Pakistan and/or Netherlands.

No one asked them to lose back to back games. Their destiny was still in their hands after the rain vs Zimbabwe.

 

[Mamoon]

Who asked the number 3 and 4 ranked T20i batters in the world to not come and bat for their country in the super over against journeyman Natravalker?

Who asked Amir to concede 19 runs in the Super Over?

 

[Mamoon]

Who asked the number 3 and 4 ranked T20i batters in the world to not come and bat for their country in the super over against journeyman Natravalker?

And who told you that your ranking has anything to do with batting in the Super Over or not?

 

[Rana]

Who asked Amir to concede 19 runs in the Super Over?

The captain Babar Azam did, who opted to use him when it made no sense to do so!

 

[Rana]

And who told you that your ranking has anything to do with batting in the Super Over or not?

doesn’t mean others can’t ask the valid question of why the two didn’t man up when Pakistan needed them to.

 

[Mamoon]

The captain Babar Azam did, who opted to use him when it made no sense to do so!

Had Babar asked another bowler to bowl the Super Over and he had conceded plenty of runs and Pakistan would have lost, you would have said the following:

“The fact that Babar didn’t give Amir the Super Over shows that he has a personal agenda against Amir.

Everyone knows that Amir was the best choice for bowling the Super Over, having bowled an excellent 19th over, and we know that Amir always turns up under pressure and in big moments, so he would have bowled a match winning Super Over. Babar once again showed he is a clueless captain…..”

I challenge you to prove me wrong and convince me that you wouldn’t have read from this script.

 

[Mamoon]

doesn’t mean others can’t ask the valid question of why the two didn’t man up when Pakistan needed them to.

It is not a valid question.

 

[Rana]

It is not a valid question.

According to who? Pat Cummins captain 2022 World Cup??

 

[emranabbas]

Who asked shaheen to drop the catch and harris to concede 12 runs when amir had the game in the bag for pakistan

 

[Rana]

Had Babar asked another bowler to bowl the Super Over and he had conceded plenty of runs and Pakistan would have lost, you would have said the following:

“The fact that Babar didn’t give Amir the Super Over shows that he has a personal agenda against Amir.

Everyone knows that Amir was the best choice for bowling the Super Over, having bowled an excellent 19th over, and we know that Amir always turns up under pressure and in big moments, so he would have bowled a match winning Super Over. Babar once again showed he is a clueless captain…..”

I challenge you to prove me wrong and convince me that you wouldn’t have read from this script.

I said it in the match thread Naseem should bowl the super over for Pakistan and I wasn’t comfortable with Natravalker bowling it for USA (I wanted Ali Khan to finish off Pakistan)

 

[Mamoon]

I said it in the match thread Naseem should bowl the super over for Pakistan and I wasn’t comfortable with Natravalker bowling it for USA (I wanted Ali Khan to finish off Pakistan)

So you had no faith in Pakistan’s “best white ball pacer” to deliver in the Super Over.

Beautiful.

 

[Rana]

So you had no faith in Pakistan’s “best white ball pacer” to deliver in the Super Over.

Beautiful.

No, I’m simply pointing out that we are not here to bash Babar just for the sake of it, like you do so with players in the Pakistan team.

 

[Mamoon]

No, I’m simply pointing out that we are not here to bash Babar just for the sake of it, like you do so with players in the Pakistan team.

How is Amir Pakistan’s best white ball pacer ( your claim ) if you don’t trust him to deliver in a Super Over?

Please answer this without deflecting to Babar.

 

[Rana]

How is Amir Pakistan’s best white ball pacer ( your claim ) if you don’t trust him to deliver in a Super Over?

Please answer this without deflecting to Babar.

Being true to my belief on the day and during the game that Amir should not have bowled the super over but Naseem Shah should have?

“I walked into my true belief and game opinion”

I thought he didn’t have the pace and penetration Naseem did (with consistent lines) for that game. Amir is a great death bowler on flat tracks too but I sensed his plan to bowl wide of off stump to the right handers will not really work here with USA taking the momentum from the last ball.

That’s just my game opinion, I don’t know if I can be right or wrong about it because obviously Naseem couldn’t bowl to prove my opinion right. I was definitely wrong about Natravalker because I thought USA got this wrong, all good though as he managed to hold his nerve and get them over the line.

Does it change the fact that I believe Amir is Pakistan’s best white ball seamer? No. Not at all. Still believe he is, I’ve been watching Pakistan pacers closely for years all around the world and for Pakistan. He is head and shoulders above the likes of Rauf, Shaheen and Naseem when it comes to proper bowling in this format. Things can vary game to game but on a consistent basis, Amir is better than all of them. The Pakistan bowlers know this too.

 

[BouncerGuy]

I urge all of you guys not to involve in any personal attacks. No more out-of-limit stuff, please

 

[Mamoon]

Being true to my belief on the day and during the game that Amir should not have bowled the super over but Naseem Shah should have?

“I walked into my true belief and game opinion”

I thought he didn’t have the pace and penetration Naseem did (with consistent lines) for that game. Amir is a great death bowler on flat tracks too but I sensed his plan to bowl wide of off stump to the right handers will not really work here with USA taking the momentum from the last ball.

That’s just my game opinion, I don’t know if I can be right or wrong about it because obviously Naseem couldn’t bowl to prove my opinion right. I was definitely wrong about Natravalker because I thought USA got this wrong, all good though as he managed to hold his nerve and get them over the line.

Does it change the fact that I believe Amir is Pakistan’s best white ball seamer? No. Not at all. Still believe he is, I’ve been watching Pakistan pacers closely for years all around the world and for Pakistan. He is head and shoulders above the likes of Rauf, Shaheen and Naseem when it comes to proper bowling in this format. Things can vary game to game but on a consistent basis, Amir is better than all of them. The Pakistan bowlers know this too.

“Amir is Pakistan’s best white ball bowler but I didn’t think he was good enough to deliver in the Super Over”

 

[Rana]

So you had no faith in Pakistan’s “best white ball pacer” to deliver in the Super Over.

Beautiful.

I had as much faith as the number 3 and 4 ranked batters in the world to score 19 runs against Natravalker

 

[Mamoon]

I had as much faith as the number 3 and 4 ranked batters in the world to score 19 runs against Natravalker

You have to play sloggers in Super Over. It has nothing to do with your ranking. Babar & Rizwan are not sloggers.

For example, Kohli is one of the greatest T20 batsman ever but he won’t be the ideal choice for a Super Over.

Amir situation is different. His fans keep telling everyone that he is the most mentally strong, experienced, reliable and smart Pakistani bowler and if you really believed that , you would have backed him to bowl in the Super Over.

 

[Amir]

Pakistan would still have been in the same position had they not selected Amir and Imad and that would have been the right thing to do.

I think the thing everyone is missing and is classic pakistan fans, it is not a matter of them failing. A lot of players fail. Look at NZ. But none of them go on TV. Bash the national captain and then come back to play for him. If they just shut up and went about their day understandable. But they didn't. They cried. Lobbied and now exposed. If you can't walk the walk, don't talk the talk.

 

[Rana]

You have to play sloggers in Super Over. It has nothing to do with your ranking. Babar & Rizwan are not sloggers.

For example, Kohli is one of the greatest T20 batsman ever but he won’t be the ideal choice for a Super Over.

Amir situation is different. His fans keep telling everyone that he is the most mentally strong, experienced, reliable and smart Pakistani bowler and if you really believed that , you would have backed him to bowl in the Super Over.

Amir’s situation is different but Babar and Rizwan’s is not??

Myself and others specially called out and questioned RizBar’s insistence on opening the innings considering their lack of intent and reluctance to take risks in the powerplay. Everyone remembers the specific question I asked @daytrader about the dynamics of the super over and how RizBar will deal with it. I specifically argued that if these two are not your most aggressive players, why are they being given the responsibility to utilise the powerplay? A die hard RizBar defender+promoter also argued that he has no problem with them going for a super over and chasing 24 even as Babar is good enough to hit 6x4 even if he has a poor balls to six ratio.

How can you argue say Amir’s situation is different because his fans argue this and that in favour of him, whereas this discussion on super over is on record here in relation to RizBar??

 

[TheSultan]

I think the thing everyone is missing and is classic pakistan fans, it is not a matter of them failing. A lot of players fail. Look at NZ. But none of them go on TV. Bash the national captain and then come back to play for him. If they just shut up and went about their day understandable. But they didn't. They cried. Lobbied and now exposed. If you can't walk the walk, don't talk the talk.

I think Amir has walked the talk. Without him, they would all be bowling full balls to Canada and we would have lost that too. Without him India would probably have racked up 160.

No one can argue he’s made a big difference to the bowling. If people’s ego don’t allow them to admit it, that’s fine, but don’t make out he’s been a massive failure.

 

[CerebralPatriot]

The only ones who need to take the blame are Babar and Rizwan no one else

These two have transformed a number 1 T20 team into a Uganda level circus headed by their main attraction Ifti Chacha and Shadab the clown.

 

[Amir]

Being true to my belief on the day and during the game that Amir should not have bowled the super over but Naseem Shah should have?

“I walked into my true belief and game opinion”

I thought he didn’t have the pace and penetration Naseem did (with consistent lines) for that game. Amir is a great death bowler on flat tracks too but I sensed his plan to bowl wide of off stump to the right handers will not really work here with USA taking the momentum from the last ball.

That’s just my game opinion, I don’t know if I can be right or wrong about it because obviously Naseem couldn’t bowl to prove my opinion right. I was definitely wrong about Natravalker because I thought USA got this wrong, all good though as he managed to hold his nerve and get them over the line.

Does it change the fact that I believe Amir is Pakistan’s best white ball seamer? No. Not at all. Still believe he is, I’ve been watching Pakistan pacers closely for years all around the world and for Pakistan. He is head and shoulders above the likes of Rauf, Shaheen and Naseem when it comes to proper bowling in this format. Things can vary game to game but on a consistent basis, Amir is better than all of them

I think Amir has walked the talk. Without him, they would all be bowling full balls to Canada and we would have lost that too. Without him India would probably have racked up 160.

No one can argue he’s made a big difference to the bowling. If people’s ego don’t allow them to admit it, that’s fine, but don’t make out he’s been a massive failure.

No one said he been horrible. But no one also told him to talk. As you can see all players impacted by pressure. But no pressure to go on live TV and bash a fellow active team mate. This is why Imad and Amir are in for the most criticism. After a year of crying and targeting Babar when the ball was in their hand. When the bat was in their hand, where were they? Are they old? Don't play. Are they injured? Don't play. They deserve everything. I am loving it.

 

[Amir]

Amir’s situation is different but Babar and Rizwan’s is not??

Myself and others specially called out and questioned RizBar’s insistence on opening the innings considering their lack of intent and reluctance to take risks in the powerplay. Everyone remembers the specific question I asked @daytrader about the dynamics of the super over and how RizBar will deal with it. I specifically argued that if these two are not your most aggressive players, why are they being given the responsibility to utilise the powerplay? A die hard RizBar defender+promoter also argued that he has no problem with them going for a super over and chasing 24 even as Babar is good enough to hit 6x4 even if he has a poor balls to six ratio.

How can you argue say Amir’s situation is different because his fans argue this and that in favour of him, whereas this discussion on super over is on record here in relation to RizBar??

If you can't see the difference between Amir who self proclaimed greatest taking super over vs Babar and riz who are not hitters, then no one can help you. Best you keep supporting superstar Imad too so you can convince yourself there is a conspiracy afoot

 

[emranabbas]

You have to play sloggers in Super Over. It has nothing to do with your ranking. Babar & Rizwan are not sloggers.

For example, Kohli is one of the greatest T20 batsman ever but he won’t be the ideal choice for a Super Over.

Amir situation is different. His fans keep telling everyone that he is the most mentally strong, experienced, reliable and smart Pakistani bowler and if you really believed that , you would have backed him to bowl in the Super Over.

then they have no business playing in the powerplay, this is what we have been telling you finally you understand, better late than never

 

[emranabbas]

No one said he been horrible. But no one also told him to talk. As you can see all players impacted by pressure. But no pressure to go on live TV and bash a fellow active team mate. This is why Imad and Amir are in for the most criticism. After a year of crying and targeting Babar when the ball was in their hand. When the bat was in their hand, where were they? Are they old? Don't play. Are they injured? Don't play. They deserve everything. I am loving it.

bro show us this clip you keep talking about

 

[TheSultan]

Yes Amir and Imad made some media statements against babar’s strategy (a strategy which was wrong btw). Is no one allowed to express an opinion? They weren’t the only ones.

And I really don’t get the gotcha moment in this. Amir has been the best bowler (Naseem is close) and Imad has been the best spinner.

So in a way they have actually proved quite a bit in this World Cup. But there are 9 others in the team.

And I think that’s the actual problem here. People are fuming that they’ve been proven worthy of their places and people are just latching on to nonsense.

 

[mominsaigol]

Had Babar asked another bowler to bowl the Super Over and he had conceded plenty of runs and Pakistan would have lost, you would have said the following:

“The fact that Babar didn’t give Amir the Super Over shows that he has a personal agenda against Amir.

Everyone knows that Amir was the best choice for bowling the Super Over, having bowled an excellent 19th over, and we know that Amir always turns up under pressure and in big moments, so he would have bowled a match winning Super Over. Babar once again showed he is a clueless captain…..”

I challenge you to prove me wrong and convince me that you wouldn’t have read from this script.

He has past comments where he was asking naseem to bowl based of the game performance. Naseem was the best choice.

 

[jiduguravindra]

No one noticed how bad shaheen has bowled in this tournament,Yet no one criticized him. Amir and imad has done better job than him.

 

[Mamoon]

then they have no business playing in the powerplay, this is what we have been telling you finally you understand, better late than never

Most of the opening pairs in the world will not be batting in the Super Over.

 

[Mamoon]

Amir’s situation is different but Babar and Rizwan’s is not??

Myself and others specially called out and questioned RizBar’s insistence on opening the innings considering their lack of intent and reluctance to take risks in the powerplay. Everyone remembers the specific question I asked @daytrader about the dynamics of the super over and how RizBar will deal with it. I specifically argued that if these two are not your most aggressive players, why are they being given the responsibility to utilise the powerplay? A die hard RizBar defender+promoter also argued that he has no problem with them going for a super over and chasing 24 even as Babar is good enough to hit 6x4 even if he has a poor balls to six ratio.

How can you argue say Amir’s situation is different because his fans argue this and that in favour of him, whereas this discussion on super over is on record here in relation to RizBar??

“Amir is the best white ball bowler in Pakistan but I won’t trust him to bowl the Super Over”

 

[Mamoon]

He has past comments where he was asking naseem to bowl based of the game performance. Naseem was the best choice.

That doesn’t change the fact that he would have backed Amir to deliver in the Super Over had Naseem bowled & failed.

 

[Mamoon]

I think Amir has walked the talk. Without him, they would all be bowling full balls to Canada and we would have lost that too. Without him India would probably have racked up 160.

No one can argue he’s made a big difference to the bowling. If people’s ego don’t allow them to admit it, that’s fine, but don’t make out he’s been a massive failure.

None of that changes the fact that Amir bowled the worst Super Over in history that played a huge role in Pakistan’s demise in this World Cup.

 

[TheSultan]

None of that changes the fact that Amir bowled the worst Super Over in history that played a huge role in Pakistan’s demise in this World Cup.

And the super over doesn’t change the fact that he’s been our best bowler and better than our so called hero Shaheen by some distance.

 

[Chuggy]

I've been a fan of this forum for ages, having created my profile over a decade ago. Like everyone here, I'm passionate about the cricket team. However, I've spent much of my 37 years living under the delusion that we are a powerful force in world cricket. Apart from the 90s or early 2000s, we've been good in clusters but never able to develop a cohesive unit.

From 2000-2001 under Moin Khan, transitioning to Waqar Younis' captaincy, we saw the 2003 World Cup fiasco. Between 2005-2007, up until the World Cup, we had a decent side, but the absence of key players (Akhtar and Asif) upset the balance. then from 2007- 2011, our squad wasn't special, but the trio spin attack of Ajmal, Afridi, and Hafeez, along with peak Umar Gul, was formidable. From that point, our ODI strategy of preserving wickets and attacking in the last 10 overs became outdated, especially in World Cups and it continued in the T20 tournaments too.

There was hope when Sarfaraz became captain and, with Mickey Arthur, rallied the team to win the 2017 Champions Trophy. They found form in the 2019 World Cup but were thwarted by rain and a poor start against the Windies. However, from 2019 to the 2022 T20 World Cup, Babar Azam and his team showed promise, notably beating India by 10 wickets. This momentum carried into the 2022 World Cup.

Despite winning most bilateral series, criticism against Babar and Rizwan's strike rates from ex-players started affecting the team. After losing the 2022 T20 final to England, Babar's confidence seemed to wane. The pressure and criticism have brought him down. The team now appears divided, with factions within the squad.

In the recent World Cup, the defeat against the USA wasn't just due to Haris Rauf's last over or Mohammad Amir's super over, but also Babar's slow start. His 9 runs off 23 deliveries set a poor tone. In the match against India, after bowling them out for 120, I knew we'd struggle if Babar and Rizwan didn't score early. Our conservative approach in the powerplay again cost us.



- Babar Azam should resign as captain to focus on his power and fitness.
- Mohammad Rizwan is likely to become the next captain.
- Shaheen Shah Afridi needs to be dropped; he's become too predictable without his extra pace.
- Haris Rauf should be a rotation player and play more first-class cricket to improve consistency.
- Mohammad Amir might retire after the World Cup or continue until the next Champions Trophy.
- Imad Wasim needs to improve his fitness.
- Naseem Shah is my favorite player; he genuinely cares about the team.
- Iftikhar Ahmed's place in the squad is puzzling.
- Shadab Khan needs to work on his bowling, possibly abroad.
- Azam Khan should reconsider his role in the team.
- Saim Ayub really needs to work on his game, been given lots of chances yet he keeps failing over and over again, i do believe he can comeback into the side.

the team needs a full detox and lots of faces must be replaced, so many passengers in the squad, no middle order and it continues to get worst.

We've all contributed to the team's downfall – ex-players, YouTubers, analysts, the cricket board, and management. It's time for a significant change in mindset and strategy to move forward.