How to become a Hindu

[Champ_Pal]

'Hinduism has been called the oldest religion in the world'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism

'Hinduism is the oldest living religion on Earth.'

https://www.smp.org/resourcecenter/resource/2671/

Zoroastrianism could possibly be older than Hinduism however from what I know it is not, so my belief will be that Hinduism predates it... You can disagree, doesn't bother me...

I believe Zoroastrianism is much older than modern Hinduism which only started showing up past 500 AD.

Vedic religion is the contemporary of Mitraism which was prevalent in Persia before Zoroastrianism. They shared common Gods and their language was very similar. They were neighbors after all. Old Persian language and Sanskrit were pretty similar.
I believe the clear split between Vedic religion and Persian culture happened starting Zoroastrianism. Persians were considered Asuras after that and became Malechas. When Islam arrived in Persia, whatever little commonality between cultures remained also vanished between Persian and Vedic religion. They became Muslims and Vedic religion transformed into Hinduism.

 

[Mirpuri Don]

This is partly correct. Many Hindu castes like Jats, Gujjars , Rajputs were descendants of foreign tribes like Kushans, Huns , Scythians, Sakas who became Hindus when they settled down in India

Give you good example - The Jadeja clan of Gujarat ( like Ajay Jadeja and Ravindra Jadeja ) - they were originally a Muslim tribe called Saama from Baluchistan / Persia. They settled in Gujarat and became devotees of Shiv

Or look at Jats of North India like Bajwa, Cheema , Dhillon. They were nomadic pastoralists from Iran / Baluchistan who embraced Islam / SIkh / Hindu as per local customs

Just like there are groups like Tablighi Jamaat who proselytize for Islam , you also have groups like Arya Samaj and ISCKON who proselytize for Hindus

If I’m not wrong Jadeja’s were Sindhi Muslims not Persians or Baloch.

You’re right about Rajputs, etc getting absorbed but it seems the assimilation by Hinduism stopped with Islam, after Islam you don´t get groups becoming Hindus?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

What matters is the soul. Soul gets reincarnated . Nobody cares about the physical body.

You do if you have a physical body. This would be the same whether you were a monkey or a priest. It might not be at the same level of the soul, but when the body gets recycled into the earth it eventually gives rise to new life, hence 'reincarnated'. This is the cycle of life and death. Might not be as fancy or high minded as reincarnation of the soul, but at least you have living proof that it happens.

 

[NishanKonar]

If I’m not wrong Jadeja’s were Sindhi Muslims not Persians or Baloch.

You’re right about Rajputs, etc getting absorbed but it seems the assimilation by Hinduism stopped with Islam, after Islam you don´t get groups becoming Hindus?

Actually lots of clans became Hindu in the last few centuries. Like Adivasis, Bhils, Gonds , Jats , Gujjars, Manipuris, Assamese

I think there is general misconception that most Indians were Hindus and some of them converted to Islam in the last 1000 years

In reality very small percentage of Indians were Hindu. Mostly the elites were considered as Hindu. Majority of masses followed their own pagan or animist faiths. Most of these got absorbed into Hindu fold in the last 300 years. WHile some clans adopted Islam ot in some cases Sikhism or Christianity

A good example is Jats. 300 years back Jats were nomadic pastoralists who followed some pagan or animistic faiths. But in the last 300 years they started converting to organized religions - Islam in Western Punjab, Sikhism in Central Punjab and Hinduism in Eastern Punjab & Haryana. Same thing appended to other clans like Gujjars , Kamboj , etc

Same thing happened in Bengal. 500 years back people in Bengal were mostly animists or pagan worshippers. They proselytized in recent centuries. In eastern half ( East Bengal ) they became mostly Muslims while in western half ( West Bengal ) they became mostly Hindu

Let me tell you an famous story. Today SHivaji is often regarded as a great Hindu warrior. But when Shivaji wanted to be coronated as King - most Hindu priests refused. Bcoz Shivaji did not have the sacred Hindu thread as he was born in a low caste family. So Shivaji bribed a Hindu priest and got himself a Rajput caste certificate. Only after that his coronation happened

In recent years this proselytization activity is very prominently seen in the North East states. The people in these states are mongoloid and practiced their own pagan faiths. But in the last 75 years since independence many of these tribes have been brought into the Hindu fold.

 

[Mirpuri Don]

Actually lots of clans became Hindu in the last few centuries. Like Adivasis, Bhils, Gonds , Jats , Gujjars, Manipuris, Assamese

I think there is general misconception that most Indians were Hindus and some of them converted to Islam in the last 1000 years

In reality very small percentage of Indians were Hindu. Mostly the elites were considered as Hindu. Majority of masses followed their own pagan or animist faiths. Most of these got absorbed into Hindu fold in the last 300 years. WHile some clans adopted Islam ot in some cases Sikhism or Christianity

A good example is Jats. 300 years back Jats were nomadic pastoralists who followed some pagan or animistic faiths. But in the last 300 years they started converting to organized religions - Islam in Western Punjab, Sikhism in Central Punjab and Hinduism in Eastern Punjab & Haryana. Same thing appended to other clans like Gujjars , Kamboj , etc

Same thing happened in Bengal. 500 years back people in Bengal were mostly animists or pagan worshippers. They proselytized in recent centuries. In eastern half ( East Bengal ) they became mostly Muslims while in western half ( West Bengal ) they became mostly Hindu

Let me tell you an famous story. Today SHivaji is often regarded as a great Hindu warrior. But when Shivaji wanted to be coronated as King - most Hindu priests refused. Bcoz Shivaji did not have the sacred Hindu thread as he was born in a low caste family. So Shivaji bribed a Hindu priest and got himself a Rajput caste certificate. Only after that his coronation happened

In recent years this proselytization activity is very prominently seen in the North East states. The people in these states are mongoloid and practiced their own pagan faiths. But in the last 75 years since independence many of these tribes have been brought into the Hindu fold.

I know it's the case for the Adivasis and in the North East (millions became Christians as well) but isn't that historical revisionism to say that Jats, Rajputs, Gujjars, etc have never been Hindu majority until recently ?

Correct me If I'm wrong but not only Hindu nationalists even leftist Indian academics would refute this.

In Pakistan many clans/tribes esp Punjab and Sindh have Hindu roots something that you see in some of their customs.

If there were never Hindus but become Muslims out of "animism" recently how would they keep some Hindu stuff ?

 

[SalimBhai]

I think a good majority if not all of people were Hindu or Buddhist before converting to Islam. The pagan and animalistic religions were way before that.

 

[NishanKonar]

I know it's the case for the Adivasis and in the North East (millions became Christians as well) but isn't that historical revisionism to say that Jats, Rajputs, Gujjars, etc have never been Hindu majority until recently ?

Correct me If I'm wrong but not only Hindu nationalists even leftist Indian academics would refute this.

In Pakistan many clans/tribes esp Punjab and Sindh have Hindu roots something that you see in some of their customs.

If there were never Hindus but become Muslims out of "animism" recently how would they keep some Hindu stuff ?

Actually what many Muslims say they have Hindu roots is often their pagan roots. Example if a Muslim has surname like Bajwa or Dhillon or Rathore - it does not mean they were Hindu earlier. Basically the word " Hindu " became synonymous with indigenous.

The word "Hindu" was used by Mughals and British to denote anybody who were not Muslim or Christian. So Hindu was broad conglomerate of clans and tribes - many of whom had nothing to do with Vedic Hinduism.

Now many of these clans and tribes were brought under Hindu fold in last 200-300 years. But since they were originally classified by British as HIndu - it allowed Hindu nationalists to create this narrative that they were Hindu all along and Hindus never proselytize

As per Vedic Hinduism only the upper caste like Brahmin , Kshatriya and Bania are Hindu. But today 80% Hindu are not upper caste like Jats , gujjars, marathas. How did these people become Hindu. They were absorbed into Hindu fold in recent centuries. Example SHivaji

 

[NishanKonar]

On a different note - no religion can have 1 billion followers - if they NEVER proselytize

Look at religions that actually don't proselytize - like Jews , Parsis, Druze. How may followers do they have !

 

[Colorblind Genius]

To the first point, I said all ppl of Abrahamic belief will go to hell ? Can you show me where I said this ?

To the second point, what are you on about ? Me indicating there is no scientific proof in what any religion says, is this what you are alluding to ? or if it is something else, can you be more specific about the 'I do not know'

You seem to be getting upset, relax, just because I do not have any interest in the Abrahamic faith, it does not mean I am attacking it, its just not my cup of tea...

You took two subtle jabs at Abrahamic faiths, that you will certainly deny now. Which is OK and I don't wanna dig deep into it.
But here are the examples.

First, in the explanation and allegiance with Hinduism, you said,

"Drop the fear mongering abhrahamic theory"

as if Hinduism is somehow better because it does not have "fear mongering".

But then when I asked about the concept of Narak and Swark in Hinduism, you didn't reply.

Then you took the second jab,

People of Abhrahamic faith struggle to understand this belief because their faith is not as deep/complex as Hinduism

It's as if, it requires a higher level of intelligence to understand Hinduism, and thus the followers of Abrahamic faiths are dumb or less intelligent.

But anyway,
How is Hinduism is more complex and deep when you couldn't answer a simple question when I asked you, as to tell us how are new humans introduced in the reincarnation cycle?

You said,

Great question.

Let me die first, I will try and get back to you after I leave my physical form.

Then I asked, who is the first human in "complex" Hindu belief?
Again, no answer.


And finally you stated

Me indicating there is no scientific proof in what any religion says, is this what you are alluding to ? or if it is something else, can you be more specific about the 'I do not know'

No, we are not talking scientific proofs.
Science does not believe in God, religion, morality and afterlife.

The true fact is; empirically we do not know what's after death?

We are talking about Theology.
This is where faith comes into play for those who are still curious to know whats' after death? Quite a few of us, then build a faith to believe in the unseen.

Abrahamic faiths state, what's after death (which is scientifically not proven because it's a believe based on faith - and having faith does NOT require proof or evidence. If you already have a proof or evidence of something, then it's NOT a faith anymore)

And finally, you didn't answer this one,

In the explanation of Hinduism you stated these two statements.

Believe that all faiths lead to God

and then

Drop the fear mongering abhrahamic theory

And I asked, isn't Abrahamic theory is also a "Faith"?
How come it does not lead to God when you just said, All faiths lead to God in Hinduism.

Exactly, what's the complexity in Hinduism you are talking about?

 

[Champ_Pal]

Actually what many Muslims say they have Hindu roots is often their pagan roots. Example if a Muslim has surname like Bajwa or Dhillon or Rathore - it does not mean they were Hindu earlier. Basically the word " Hindu " became synonymous with indigenous.

The word "Hindu" was used by Mughals and British to denote anybody who were not Muslim or Christian. So Hindu was broad conglomerate of clans and tribes - many of whom had nothing to do with Vedic Hinduism.

Now many of these clans and tribes were brought under Hindu fold in last 200-300 years. But since they were originally classified by British as HIndu - it allowed Hindu nationalists to create this narrative that they were Hindu all along and Hindus never proselytize

As per Vedic Hinduism only the upper caste like Brahmin , Kshatriya and Bania are Hindu. But today 80% Hindu are not upper caste like Jats , gujjars, marathas. How did these people become Hindu. They were absorbed into Hindu fold in recent centuries. Example SHivaji

In the North West part of India, clans like Jats, Gujjars, Rajputs were either Hindu or Buddhist. But Hindu is a broad term. They may be following a single deity or very few local deities just like the rest of India. The name of the deity may be different in different parts of India and worshipped in various forms. But they were part of Hindu Gods.

Brahminic Hinduism and its Brahminized Gods and Goddesses are only a few hundred years old. But the original forms of the Gods and Goddesses are extremely old.

There is a reason why Mughals and British considered all these clans and tribes as Hindus. The deities may vary. But the way they worshipped and the rituals are similar. They had to group all of these cultures as Hindus.

Due to their similarity, Brahmins were able to write stories and bring all of them under one umbrella. All of this started with the arrival of Muslims in North West India and Buddhism was getting decimated there.

 

[NishanKonar]

In the North West part of India, clans like Jats, Gujjars, Rajputs were either Hindu or Buddhist. But Hindu is a broad term. They may be following a single deity or very few local deities just like the rest of India. The name of the deity may be different in different parts of India and worshipped in various forms. But they were part of Hindu Gods.

Brahminic Hinduism and its Brahminized Gods and Goddesses are only a few hundred years old. But the original forms of the Gods and Goddesses are extremely old.

There is a reason why Mughals and British considered all these clans and tribes as Hindus. The deities may vary. But the way they worshipped and the rituals are similar. They had to group all of these cultures as Hindus.

Due to their similarity, Brahmins were able to write stories and bring all of them under one umbrella. All of this started with the arrival of Muslims in North West India and Buddhism was getting decimated there.

Thing is most of theses tribes and clans worshipped deities not mentioned in Vedas or Puranas. But once they got absorbed into the Hindu fold - their deities also got incorporated into the Hindu fold This created the narrative that they were Hindu all along

The reason Mughals and British classified all these clans and tribes as Hindu is bcoz they never understood differences between Vedic Hinduism and the pagan animist cultures. For them everyone who worshipped idols were Hindu. They did not see any difference between the Brahmins who followed Vedic rituals and the Adivasis / Dalits who followed their own folklore and deities.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Thing is most of theses tribes and clans worshipped deities not mentioned in Vedas or Puranas. But once they got absorbed into the Hindu fold - their deities also got incorporated into the Hindu fold This created the narrative that they were Hindu all along

The reason Mughals and British classified all these clans and tribes as Hindu is bcoz they never understood differences between Vedic Hinduism and the pagan animist cultures. For them everyone who worshipped idols were Hindu. They did not see any difference between the Brahmins who followed Vedic rituals and the Adivasis / Dalits who followed their own folklore and deities.

No one worshipped the deities mentioned in vedas in mainland India. Vedic religion existed initially in the North West part of Pakistan closer to Iran. Then it spread to mainland India over the centuries.

Brahmins simply married the Vedic religion with the mainland India's idol worshippers. You can see that most of these stories in Hinduism are written post 7th century.

Modern Hinduism owes a lot of its existence to Islamic invaders.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Believe it or not .... nobody gives a toss whether you have gone through some religious process/ceremony. You tell you are a Hindu and they will take your word for it. Nobody will stop you and ask you a certificate even to visit the most sacred Hindu temples. They are open for everyone. Hinduism is not a proselytizing religion therefore there is no such thing as equivalent to say a Baptism in Hinduism. Different matter if you want to actually practices its teachings.

Of Course it is.
Matter of fact, Hinduism seems so rigidly proselytized that the entire humanity has no choice but to convert to Hinduism, otherwise they can't get Moksha and will keep grinding thru the reincarceration process until they get Moksha. Read below the bold underline and the countless chances theory below.

On a different note - no religion can have 1 billion followers - if they NEVER proselytize.

Just like there are groups like Tablighi Jamaat who proselytize for Islam , you also have groups like Arya Samaj and ISCKON who proselytize for Hindus

Countless chances. Life is full of miseries. The idea is to escape from the cycle of birth and death to get Molsha and be one with God. Pretty much same concept in Buddhism. Except in Buddhism, there is no God.

Countless chances?
A soul must go thru the reincarceration cycle (regardless of how many iterations) till it gets Moksha, otherwise, there is no way out.
If yes, then according to Hinduism, everyone in the entire humanity, at some stage of his/her reincarceration cycle, must be either born as a Hindu or convert to Hinduism, and seek/attain moksha. No other way!

So lets take a look at Hitler and Mother Teresa in the light of Hinduism.

Mother Teresa must have been recarcinated into some other form because she wasn't Hindu and hence she didn't get Moksha.
What other form could she possibly be in right now if she was supposedly a great human being but not a Hindu, neither seek Moksha?

Hitler: He could be reincarcerated into what? A donkey? (or any other form of life you can pick), but lets stick with the donkey. And say that Hitler was incarnated as Donkey.

So how many donkeys are there in the world? Lets say 100 million.
What does it mean? All these donkeys were equally as bad as Hitler in their previous lives? If yes, how come we never heard of them besides Hitler in the entire human history?

Or, if being a donkey is the max possible form that one can be reincarcerated regardless of how much of a "cosmic debt" they have?

So for example, one man has killed another man. He is reincarcerated a Donkey
Hitler killed 16 million men - but hindu gods cannot do anything about it other than reincarcerate him as a donkey.

So killing of one man = killing of a 16 million men?

 

[Kroll]

I touched on this in the previous thread I raised on this subject which romali _rotti referenced. I asked if I could assign myself a high caste, and I'm not sure I got a clear reply.

Anyway with me being a Captain, and in uniform, it has to be a soldier right? So I'm thinking I'll get myself a Kshatriya badge and stick it on with the rest of the baubles.

What's that you say? There's a Major here who would outrank me? Pfff, everyone knows he's a fake, a chaprasi badge will do for him.

Ah nice, with Kshatriya taken and Major potentially taking Shudra that's a couple of slots taken. Get your bookings in quick as slots are running out fast.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Of Course it is.
Matter of fact, Hinduism seems so rigidly proselytized that the entire humanity has no choice but to convert to Hinduism, otherwise they can't get Moksha and will keep grinding thru the reincarceration process until they get Moksha. Read below the bold underline and the countless chances theory below.









Countless chances?
A soul must go thru the reincarceration cycle (regardless of how many iterations) till it gets Moksha, otherwise, there is no way out.
If yes, then according to Hinduism, everyone in the entire humanity, at some stage of his/her reincarceration cycle, must be either born as a Hindu or convert to Hinduism, and seek/attain moksha. No other way!

So lets take a look at Hitler and Mother Teresa in the light of Hinduism.

Mother Teresa must have been recarcinated into some other form because she wasn't Hindu and hence she didn't get Moksha.
What other form could she possibly be in right now if she was supposedly a great human being but not a Hindu, neither seek Moksha?

Hitler: He could be reincarcerated into what? A donkey? (or any other form of life you can pick), but lets stick with the donkey. And say that Hitler was incarnated as Donkey.

So how many donkeys are there in the world? Lets say 100 million.
What does it mean? All these donkeys were equally as bad as Hitler in their previous lives? If yes, how come we never heard of them besides Hitler in the entire human history?

Or, if being a donkey is the max possible form that one can be reincarcerated regardless of how much of a "cosmic debt" they have?

So for example, one man has killed another man. He is reincarcerated a Donkey
Hitler killed 16 million men - but hindu gods cannot do anything about it other than reincarcerate him as a donkey.

So killing of one man = killing of a 16 million men?

You do not have to be a Hindu to get Moksha. It depends on your deeds and how much you follow Dharma.

Regarding your Hitler-Donkey comparison, you cannot start making logical sense into faith and belief. We do not know what organism a life get reincarnated after the soul leaves the body.

Personally I would take the reincarnation process and finally attaining Moksha instead of burning in hell eternally without any purpose. Supposedly a person kills someone and goes to hell. For how long is the person going to burn in hell? A thousand years, a million years, a trillion years? That makes no sense if the soul does not get a chance to better itself. If you believe you are created by God, then all souls must go back to him ultimately. Not burn in hell eternally. Even the Heaven in Islam makes no sense.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Of Course it is.
So for example, one man has killed another man. He is reincarcerated a Donkey
Hitler killed 16 million men - but hindu gods cannot do anything about it other than reincarcerate him as a donkey.

So killing of one man = killing of a 16 million men?

If someone kills 16 million men, then that person has extreme bad karma. Who knows how many lives of good deeds the person might have to go through to attain Moksha. Only the Supreme soul can decide. In all those lives, the person might have to go through enormous difficulties. Who wants to live such lives? Its a punishment for life.

 

[Romali_rotti]

You took two subtle jabs at Abrahamic faiths, that you will certainly deny now. Which is OK and I don't wanna dig deep into it.
But here are the examples.

First, in the explanation and allegiance with Hinduism, you said,

as if Hinduism is somehow better because it does not have "fear mongering".

So what does stop the fear mongering have anything to do with me saying all Abrahamic believers will go to hell ? Did I say once you become a Hindu, people of other beliefs will go to hell ? Explain, where I said this.

But then when I asked about the concept of Narak and Swark in Hinduism, you didn't reply.

I made it clear that I believe in re-incarnation and karma, taking re-births etc, so pretty much my views on this is clear and out in the open. Plus I am not here to give you a lecture on Hinduism, you want to know more you go look it up, google is your friend.

Then you took the second jab,


It's as if, it requires a higher level of intelligence to understand Hinduism, and thus the followers of Abrahamic faiths are dumb or less intelligent.

This is problem with some of you people from the Abrahamic faiths, too sensitive, the minute someone says something you do not like, all hell breaks loose. YES, I do believe Hinduism is lot, lot , lot more complex than any Abrahamic faiths, that does not mean I am insulting it.

I feel Abrahamic faiths lack spirituality after being exposed to the Quran and particularly the texts from the Hadith. Also NO, I am not going to go over what I have read on the Quran/Hadith and why it did not sit well with me, as that kind of posts will get instantly deleted here, so don't ask. Just accept that Abrahamic faiths are not for everyone, however that does not mean I do not respect people of those faith. I got nothing but love for people of all faiths and beliefs, heck my wife is Irish Catholic, my kids are being raised with both Christian and Hindu beliefs.

But anyway,
How is Hinduism is more complex and deep when you couldn't answer a simple question when I asked you, as to tell us how are new humans introduced in the reincarnation cycle?



You said,


Then I asked, who is the first human in "complex" Hindu belief?
Again, no answer.


And finally you stated



No, we are not talking scientific proofs.
Science does not believe in God, religion, morality and afterlife.

The true fact is; empirically we do not know what's after death?

Errr what ? I already indicated in one of the previous posts that, I do not know what happens after death, what is your point ?

We are talking about Theology.
This is where faith comes into play for those who are still curious to know whats' after death? Quite a few of us, then build a faith to believe in the unseen.

Abrahamic faiths state, what's after death (which is scientifically not proven because it's a believe based on faith - and having faith does NOT require proof or evidence. If you already have a proof or evidence of something, then it's NOT a faith anymore)

Again what is your point ? I pointed out my beliefs of Karmic debt's which could lead to rebirths, in order to take re-birth you obviously have to die. That is my belief and it is clear as day light to me and what your beliefs say would be clear to you, so what exactly is your point ? End of the day, we both have different belief systems we are happy with.

And finally, you didn't answer this one,

In the explanation of Hinduism you stated these two statements.



and then



And I asked, isn't Abrahamic theory is also a "Faith"?
How come it does not lead to God when you just said, All faiths lead to God in Hinduism.

Every faith is worshipping a creator, each faith has a different set of rules, pretty simple really. End of the day no one knows what happens after death, so best be happy with what makes you happy.. I don't see what the fuss is.

Exactly, what's the complexity in Hinduism you are talking about?

Google it yourself and find out, I am not here to give you a detailed lecture..

Bold...

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Bold...

All very fake and shallow responses. None has any real content but mostly disgruntled rants. And I am not surprised.

You are the first one in the thread who brought Abrahamic faith in the Hinduism thread, and took subtle jabs at it, but when I inquired about Narak and Swark in comparison to fear mongering in Abrahamic faiths, you had no answer.

You said all faiths lead to God but to become Hindu, one needs to "drop the Abrahamic THEORY", as if it's not a faith? And if it's a faith (followed by half of the world's population) then, according to Hinduism, why it doesn't lead to God? You just said, all faiths lead to God. Didn't you?

You said, Hinduism is deep and complex but you don't have answers to very simple and basic questions regarding the incarceration process and how new human souls are adding up, by the BILLIONS, into this process?

Your fellow Hindus tell you that Zoroastrianism is a historically proven religion that is older than Hinduism, but acting like an obdurate, you are hell bent to live in denial.

Seriously, we don't have much left to argue here.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

All very fake and shallow responses. None has any real content but mostly disgruntled rants. And I am not surprised.

You are the first one in the thread who brought Abrahamic faith in the Hinduism thread, and took subtle jabs at it, but when I inquired about Narak and Swark in comparison to fear mongering in Abrahamic faiths, you had no answer.

You said all faiths lead to God but to become Hindu, one needs to "drop the Abrahamic THEORY", as if it's not a faith? And if it's a faith (followed by half of the world's population) then, according to Hinduism, why it doesn't lead to God? You just said, all faiths lead to God. Didn't you?

You said, Hinduism is deep and complex but you don't have answers to very simple and basic questions regarding the incarceration process and how new human souls are adding up, by the BILLIONS, into this process?

Your fellow Hindus tell you that Zoroastrianism is a historically proven religion that is older than Hinduism, but acting like an obdurate, you are hell bent to live in denial.

Seriously, we don't have much left to argue here.

To be fair, the jabs at Abrahamic faiths had to be quite subtle since rotti bhai has since revealed that he is married to an Irish Catholic, and his kids are being raised with both Hindu and Christian beliefs, so maybe the subtlety of the intellectual complexity of Hinduism is lost on the Christian side of his family. It's like giving wife and kids lollipops until they are old enough to appreciate a vindaloo.

 

[Romali_rotti]

All very fake and shallow responses. None has any real content but mostly disgruntled rants. And I am not surprised.

Disgruntled rants ? Oh geez, I recall you making false accusations of supposedly me saying people of Abrahamic faiths which are more than half the population of the world going to hell. When asked for proof, you go numb...

Yeah OK


You are the first one in the thread who brought Abrahamic faith in the Hinduism thread, and took subtle jabs at it, but when I inquired about Narak and Swark in comparison to fear mongering in Abrahamic faiths, you had no answer.

It wasn't a jab, it's the truth, Hindus do not go around fear mongering and telling people, if you do not believe in our god, you go to hell. I had an answer for the Hell and Heaven theory, per my beliefs the more karmic debts you accumulate, the more physical form you will take to pay it off, maybe it is your comprehension issue or maybe it is too complex for you to understand, I do not believe in a heaven or hell, the ultimate desire for the soul is to never take a physical form and have oneness with the higher power. You just don't get it, and I am not here to school you on it.


You said all faiths lead to God but to become Hindu, one needs to "drop the Abrahamic THEORY", as if it's not a faith? And if it's a faith (followed by half of the world's population) then, according to Hinduism, why it doesn't lead to God? You just said, all faiths lead to God. Didn't you?

All faiths leads to worshipping a higher power, which the Hindus feel is correct thing to do, we just don't crucify someone it is a higher power outside of Hinduism. Let your beliefs save you, Hindus do not have discussions (generally) about which heaven would be better, or whose god is better or which gods are nicer and wont burn you in hell for an eternity etc...


You said, Hinduism is deep and complex but you don't have answers to very simple and basic questions regarding the incarceration process and how new human souls are adding up, by the BILLIONS, into this process?

Not even going to get into this, you asked a stupid question and congrats you received a stupid answer for it earlier.

Your fellow Hindus tell you that Zoroastrianism is a historically proven religion that is older than Hinduism, but acting like an obdurate, you are hell bent to live in denial.

This is really petty, I already told that '1' supposed Hindu poster that Zorastrianism could be older than Hinduism, however per my research it is not, so I am happy to believe Hinduism is older.. It's not denial, the data available is ambiguous. Even if Zoratrainsim is proven to be older with solid data, it means nothing really, I am still going to be a Hindu and will be perfectly happy where I am at, and the Abrahamic religions made up by the Jews and Arabs would still be the new kids on the block in comparison.

Seriously, we don't have much left to argue here.

There is one thing I agree with.

Bold...

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Captain did you convert or not?

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Bold...

Again, Narag and Swarg, the "fearing mongering" is as prevelant in Hinduism as it could be in any other faith. But you still choose to live in denial. It's an integral part of Hindu faith whether you like it or not.

Perhaps, you are not even a pure Hindu.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Countless chances. Life is full of miseries. The idea is to escape from the cycle of birth and death to get Molsha and be one with God. Pretty much same concept in Buddhism. Except in Buddhism, there is no God.

It actually isn't "Countless Chances".
It looks like 3 chances or something?

Watch it here

 

[Champ_Pal]

It actually isn't "Countless Chances".
It looks like 3 chances or something?

Watch it here

These stories are all made up in the last few centuries. Perhaps trying to copy or incorporate Christian and Muslim ideas of hell fires No mouse troupe will come and bite humans in hell as there is really no hell. I am not even going to bother to look at the video. The screenshot looks like something straight out of Dante's inferno.

Modern Hinduism is a complete joke on the original Vedic religion.

 

[jeetu]

Concept of hell in Hinduism varies from scripture to scripture. Rig Veda doesn't even mention it. Where as Garuda Purana covers it extensively. Personally i don't value Garuda Purana that much as it was finalized much later (800 to 1000 AD). I wouldn't be surprised if part of inspiration comes Abrahamic religions.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Captain did you convert or not?

They don't seem to want me in the fold bro, not one of our Hindu posters has said come on over, be one of us.

Some of them are atheist so fair enough, if they've not got enthusiasm for themselves, why would they wish it on anyone else? Others like rotti bhai are just plain sniffy and condescending, I think I would need reincarnation in their eyes to earn Hinduship.

I'm not feeling the love. It's not like Islam where there would be celebrations and welcome mats laid out for a revert.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

They don't seem to want me in the fold bro, not one of our Hindu posters has said come on over, be one of us.

Some of them are atheist so fair enough, if they've not got enthusiasm for themselves, why would they wish it on anyone else? Others like rotti bhai are just plain sniffy and condescending, I think I would need reincarnation in their eyes to earn Hinduship.

I'm not feeling the love. It's not like Islam where there would be celebrations and welcome mats laid out for a revert.

I think if you convert to Hindusism, then leave it and convert to Islam/Christianity you will have literal mobs willing to bring you back into the fold.

 

[SalimBhai]

I think if you convert to Hindusism, then leave it and convert to Islam/Christianity you will have literal mobs willing to bring you back into the fold.

Would same or worse not apply to other religions

 

[ex-q-zit]

I think if you convert to Hindusism, then leave it and convert to Islam/Christianity you will have literal mobs willing to bring you back into the fold.

Is this your assumption or do you have a source. By mobs if you mean RW sangh groups they are not interested in one off conversions in cities. They are more focussed in remote areas where missionaries converts whole tribes into their faith. They strive towards preventing these mass conversions. The northeast states like nagalans mizoram are prime examples where now they are 90% christian. Whereas stray incidents in cities are not given importance.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Is this your assumption or do you have a source. By mobs if you mean RW sangh groups they are not interested in one off conversions in cities. They are more focussed in remote areas where missionaries converts whole tribes into their faith. They strive towards preventing these mass conversions. The northeast states like nagalans mizoram are prime examples where now they are 90% christian. Whereas stray incidents in cities are not given importance.

What is the reason for preventing conversions if you don't mind me asking? My understanding is that Hinduism is very broad and all-encompassing, so even Christians would be part of it, in the same way a tree or a beetle or a gazelle would be? So why the need for resistance since it is all part of the whole at the end of the day?

 

[ex-q-zit]

What is the reason for preventing conversions if you don't mind me asking? My understanding is that Hinduism is very broad and all-encompassing, so even Christians would be part of it, in the same way a tree or a beetle or a gazelle would be? So why the need for resistance since it is all part of the whole at the end of the day?

Isn't it simple common sense. Just because Hinduism doesn't impose itself doesn't mean it will allow other religions to kill it like its killed in states like Nagaland, Mizoram etc. Or do you mean hinduism should sacrifice itself to accomodate other religions.

Here is my PoV which is strictly my opinion.

I believe Hinduism is the best religion for the sub-continent as we are emotional people. Hinduism keeps us stable whereas if whole of India becomes Christian then we will be more christian than the orthodox christians. I remember protests against Da Vinci code in India though it was made by christians. Same with Islam. Muslims in sub-continent are more passionate about islam than those in middle east. Talibanization wouldn't take too long. So hinduism (for such people who can easily be swayed by religion) is the best anti-dote

 

[happydavy]

I think if you convert to Hindusism, then leave it and convert to Islam/Christianity you will have literal mobs willing to bring you back into the fold.

Had that been the case then won't Hindus be mobing the entire Pakistan!

 

[happydavy]

What is the reason for preventing conversions if you don't mind me asking? My understanding is that Hinduism is very broad and all-encompassing, so even Christians would be part of it, in the same way a tree or a beetle or a gazelle would be? So why the need for resistance since it is all part of the whole at the end of the day?

Because of the history. Conversion in sub-continent happened in the last 8 centuries primarily because of fear or coercion and the converted ones eventually demanded a nation. If one wants to adopt another belief then it's a non issue but if someone pressurises someone to convert then it's against the law.

 

[happydavy]

They don't seem to want me in the fold bro, not one of our Hindu posters has said come on over, be one of us.

Some of them are atheist so fair enough, if they've not got enthusiasm for themselves, why would they wish it on anyone else? Others like rotti bhai are just plain sniffy and condescending, I think I would need reincarnation in their eyes to earn Hinduship.

I'm not feeling the love. It's not like Islam where there would be celebrations and welcome mats laid out for a revert.

That's the whole point of Hinduism - we don't judge, we don't force and we don't interfere in whichever god you believe in, whatever gives you peace and happiness is allright with us. So no need for any celebrations or welcome mats or even a bare nudge to ask you to convert.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Isn't it simple common sense. Just because Hinduism doesn't impose itself doesn't mean it will allow other religions to kill it like its killed in states like Nagaland, Mizoram etc. Or do you mean hinduism should sacrifice itself to accomodate other religions.

Here is my PoV which is strictly my opinion.

I believe Hinduism is the best religion for the sub-continent as we are emotional people. Hinduism keeps us stable whereas if whole of India becomes Christian then we will be more christian than the orthodox christians. I remember protests against Da Vinci code in India though it was made by christians. Same with Islam. Muslims in sub-continent are more passionate about islam than those in middle east. Talibanization wouldn't take too long. So hinduism (for such people who can easily be swayed by religion) is the best anti-dote

Why is it so important for Hinduism to survive? If it gets killed by a better belief then wouldn't it be a success in the broader sense of humanity? And if it's superior, why does it need to adopt the proletysing methods of Abrahamic religions? Banning beef slaughter, preventing sale of homes in some areas to non-Hindus, enforcing love jihad jurisdiction to prevent girls from marrying their true loves who may not be Hindu.

To the outsider it seems like Hindus aspire to Abrahamic principles in all but name.

 

[Romali_rotti]

I'm not feeling the love. It's not like Islam where there would be celebrations and welcome mats laid out for a revert.

Apologies Cap, it is not about getting numbers for us Hindus in general, I think it is best if you stay with your current religion however, if you change your mind in the future and wish to come over, you are welcome to.

 

[ex-q-zit]

Why is it so important for Hinduism to survive? If it gets killed by a better belief then wouldn't it be a success in the broader sense of humanity? And if it's superior, why does it need to adopt the proletysing methods of Abrahamic religions? Banning beef slaughter, preventing sale of homes in some areas to non-Hindus, enforcing love jihad jurisdiction to prevent girls from marrying their true loves who may not be Hindu.

To the outsider it seems like Hindus aspire to Abrahamic principles in all but name.

So who decides what is a better belief?

The Gita says 'Dharmo Rakshati Rakshitah' which is loosely translated as "The Dharma protects those who protect it.". We believe in protecting what is rightfully ours. It is important for Hinduism to survive so that we have religions that are not predatory. Hindus would not aspire for the whole world to become hindu but we have every right for our civilisation to stay as it is.

Its a paradox that in a thread where you ask how to become hindu you also question the need for hindusim to survive. Which further proves your ulterior motive in creating the thread.

So now that you dont want to be a hindu there is no point in keeping this thread alive as its come to its logical end.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Apologies Cap, it is not about getting numbers for us Hindus in general, I think it is best if you stay with your current religion however, if you change your mind in the future and wish to come over, you are welcome to.

Thanks, I'd like to come over as a Kshatriya, please tell me how I would go about it.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Thanks, I'd like to come over as a Kshatriya, please tell me how I would go about it.

Just stay where you are at Cap...

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

So who decides what is a better belief?

The Gita says 'Dharmo Rakshati Rakshitah' which is loosely translated as "The Dharma protects those who protect it.". We believe in protecting what is rightfully ours. It is important for Hinduism to survive so that we have religions that are not predatory. Hindus would not aspire for the whole world to become hindu but we have every right for our civilisation to stay as it is.

Its a paradox that in a thread where you ask how to become hindu you also question the need for hindusim to survive. Which further proves your ulterior motive in creating the thread.

So now that you dont want to be a hindu there is no point in keeping this thread alive as its come to its logical end.

Not so fast buddy. If Hinduism can encompass atheism, why can't it include inclusive Abrahamic beliefs? Let the thread run it's course, I am sure Hinduism would encourage freedom of speech on such matters of faith.

 

[ex-q-zit]

Not so fast buddy. If Hinduism can encompass atheism, why can't it include inclusive Abrahamic beliefs? Let the thread run it's course, I am sure Hinduism would encourage freedom of speech on such matters of faith.

@bold: OK fine.

Why should we include other beliefs into our religion when there is no need to? Yes hinduism has a athiest stream too. I myself dont pray to God.

Hinduism atleast has that tolerance which those abrahamic religions don't have' Hence the world's first church was built in Kerala. Islam too was welcomed in India much before the invaders came in north India. When the zaorastrians where driven out of Persia the Gujarat king gave them refuge. We believe in peaceful co-existence. But that does not mean they can stomp all over us and we will allow them to.

I dont understand why you want a red carpet welcome when you want to come into hindu fold. Its your personal choice. At the end of the day its your inner happiness that matters without seeking validation from others. Well, that comes into the picture depending on how genuine you are about becoming a hindu.

Its very easy for me to create another thread asking how to become a muslim and then question many beliefs which are applicable to only 7th century. Or then say I would love to be a muslim but pork should be allowed to be eaten. I can easily deny my ulterior motives but my conscience would know why I created the thread.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Thanks, I'd like to come over as a Kshatriya, please tell me how I would go about it.

You cannot choose a caste. It used to be that way based on the traits and inclinations hundreds of years ago. Many lower caste people became Kshatriyas and Brahmins based on their traits.

You can just be a Hindu by being a Hindu. Believe in Karmic yoga and meditate on the Supreme soul. Find the eternal Brahman within yourself.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

@bold: OK fine.

Why should we include other beliefs into our religion when there is no need to? Yes hinduism has a athiest stream too. I myself dont pray to God.

Hinduism atleast has that tolerance which those abrahamic religions don't have' Hence the world's first church was built in Kerala. Islam too was welcomed in India much before the invaders came in north India. When the zaorastrians where driven out of Persia the Gujarat king gave them refuge. We believe in peaceful co-existence. But that does not mean they can stomp all over us and we will allow them to.

I dont understand why you want a red carpet welcome when you want to come into hindu fold. Its your personal choice. At the end of the day its your inner happiness that matters without seeking validation from others. Well, that comes into the picture depending on how genuine you are about becoming a hindu.

Its very easy for me to create another thread asking how to become a muslim and then question many beliefs which are applicable to only 7th century. Or then say I would love to be a muslim but pork should be allowed to be eaten. I can easily deny my ulterior motives but my conscience would know why I created the thread.

I see. So Hinduism was all inclusive until a point where it realised it was under threat from Abrahamic faiths. Then it's leaders decided hold on, maybe we are Hindus first after all, and the caste system does matter.

 

[Justcrazy]

Genuine question. If I don't live in India, but I like many Buddhist philosophies, how could I actually become a Hindu while still enjoying the taste of meat?

From what I have seen in real life , if you ask any 10 random Hindus any question regarding hinduism from different stratas of society , you will get 4 - 5 different answers . In my experience I have never any other major religion people so confused, that even questions are 180 degree different.

its not that they do not have books , scriptures or jurisprudence etc , they do have , but they are mostly not bothered about them at all. They have basically become atheists , who do not want to live under any particular guidance , they have imaginary morality values which they speak about.

I guess in order to become a hindu , one should go and get somerituals done by some hindu priests in a temple. Then start worshiping whatever you want , no one cares .

Though you deciede to become a practicing Hindus and start reading scriptures , you will realize you need to worship one God who is formless.

 

[Justcrazy]

On a different note - no religion can have 1 billion followers - if they NEVER proselytize

Look at religions that actually don't proselytize - like Jews , Parsis, Druze. How may followers do they have !

Parsis do not accept anyone converting toParsi religion unless they parents were parsis.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Genuine question. If I don't live in India, but I like many Buddhist philosophies, how could I actually become a Hindu while still enjoying the taste of meat?

You are a Hindu already. If you get a DNA test of your ancestry done, you will trace the ancestry to parts of India before partition.
At some point of time, your ancestors would have accepted and converted to Islam. The whole region of modern Pakistan belonged to various Hindu sects.

 

[NishanKonar]

From what I have seen in real life , if you ask any 10 random Hindus any question regarding hinduism from different stratas of society , you will get 4 - 5 different answers . In my experience I have never any other major religion people so confused, that even questions are 180 degree different.

its not that they do not have books , scriptures or jurisprudence etc , they do have , but they are mostly not bothered about them at all. They have basically become atheists , who do not want to live under any particular guidance , they have imaginary morality values which they speak about.

I guess in order to become a hindu , one should go and get somerituals done by some hindu priests in a temple. Then start worshiping whatever you want , no one cares .

Though you deciede to become a practicing Hindus and start reading scriptures , you will realize you need to worship one God who is formless.

This actually correct. Most upper class Hindus are not very religious and very superficial knowledge of heir religion beyond certain rituals / customs / diet. But it applies to upper classes across religions in India - Hindu, SIkhs, Muslims , CHristians. They do not really follow their religion so rigorously

One of things In noticed about Pakistanis when I met them in Europe and USA - they are very religious compared to an average Indian muslim !

 

[NishanKonar]

Parsis do not accept anyone converting toParsi religion unless they parents were parsis.

Yes. And thats why their numbers are dwindling. Also they marry outside their faith a lot and their mixed race kids are not accepted as Parsis. Like Rahul Gandhi was born to Parsi dad. Adding to their decline in numbers. In a few decades they will probably be extinct

 

[KingKhanWC]

You are a Hindu already. If you get a DNA test of your ancestry done, you will trace the ancestry to parts of India before partition.
At some point of time, your ancestors would have accepted and converted to Islam. The whole region of modern Pakistan belonged to various Hindu sects.

What were Hindus before they were Hindus? Everyone came out of Africa. The first belief has been of a higer being, usually a single one. Where does your history start in Indian schools?

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

What were Hindus before they were Hindus? Everyone came out of Africa. The first belief has been of a higer being, usually a single one. Where does your history start in Indian schools?

Last 5000-6000 years of dated history and arfifacts points to origins of initial form of Hinduism.
That is where our History starts in schools.
Off course Science is taught and biological evolution is taught and accepted unlike Pakistan where schools reject such thoughts.

 

[Champ_Pal]

What were Hindus before they were Hindus? Everyone came out of Africa. The first belief has been of a higer being, usually a single one. Where does your history start in Indian schools?

Before 7th century AD, it was all cults which shared a lot in common. Buddhism was in decline in India, but still dominant in Central Asia and East Asia.
With Islam wiping out Buddhism from Central Asia and Afghanistan, many Vedic religion followers migrated to mainland India. All the cults were united into a single religion which we now call as Hinduism. Deities like Shiva, Kali, Shakti etc are all extremely old. They coexisted with Buddhism, Jainism, Ajivakas, Charuvakas etc.

 

[jeetu]

What were Hindus before they were Hindus? Everyone came out of Africa. The first belief has been of a higer being, usually a single one. Where does your history start in Indian schools?

The Andamanese people are thought to have arrived in subcontinent about 26000 years ago.
So my guess is that migration to India from Africa were on the rise during that time. They probably created first prototype social culture over the time. They are strong candidates for developing early Harappan civilization. Aryan migration to India from Middle East started about 2000 BC. Their beliefs integrated with existing indigenous culture giving rise to Hinduism.

The first religious first belief were centered around celestial objects and prediction of weather etc. Sun worshiping was very prevalent among older religions. The belief of one true God came after that.

In early 80's during my school time, Indian history started from Harappa , then Aryan migration. However not much details were given. Detailed Indian history started at around 400 BC. From Buddha to Alexander invasion to Ashoka and so on.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Before 7th century AD, it was all cults which shared a lot in common. Buddhism was in decline in India, but still dominant in Central Asia and East Asia.
With Islam wiping out Buddhism from Central Asia and Afghanistan, many Vedic religion followers migrated to mainland India. All the cults were united into a single religion which we now call as Hinduism. Deities like Shiva, Kali, Shakti etc are all extremely old. They coexisted with Buddhism, Jainism, Ajivakas, Charuvakas etc.

You can tell a lot from the language people use.

Islam 'wiped' out Buddhism from Central Asia.

Buddhism was 'in decline' in India.

What caused it to be in decline?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You are a Hindu already. If you get a DNA test of your ancestry done, you will trace the ancestry to parts of India before partition.
At some point of time, your ancestors would have accepted and converted to Islam. The whole region of modern Pakistan belonged to various Hindu sects.

I am aware of the historical DNA, I was referring more to the culture and ideology. As we would see in India today, these shift with generations, and with new thoughts and beliefs. So you could argue Hinduism actually adopted Islam during a certain period, and that would chime with the all-inclusive nature referred to by many here. Not by everyone obviously, but by a significant number. Pakistan and Kashmir are actual geographical proof of this, and arguably Afghanistan as well.

 

[Champ_Pal]

You can tell a lot from the language people use.

Islam 'wiped' out Buddhism from Central Asia.

Buddhism was 'in decline' in India.

What caused it to be in decline?

Popularity of Shiva cult, Shakti cult and SriVaishnavism increased. Buddhism was never popular in rural areas who had their own local deities. The Hinduism we see today is just a conglomeration of the cults and local deities with Vedic Tadka.

 

[jeetu]

You can tell a lot from the language people use.

Islam 'wiped' out Buddhism from Central Asia.

Buddhism was 'in decline' in India.

What caused it to be in decline?

There were contributing factors for decline of Budhism in India. It was fairly gradual process from 400 AD to 1200 AD.
Primary factors , Buddhist monks became greedy and materialistic , they veered away from Buddha's principals thus losing followers faith in monks.
Reorganization of Hinduism , with advent of preachers like Adi Shankracharya. Who took on Buddhist in debates and got better of monks.
Hinduism integrated Buddha as avatar of Lord Vishnu. Hinduism was preferred by major Gupta kings over Buddhism was also major factor. Lastly invasions by Huna later Muslim rulers etc pretty much drove them away from India.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Last 5000-6000 years of dated history and arfifacts points to origins of initial form of Hinduism.
That is where our History starts in schools.
Off course Science is taught and biological evolution is taught and accepted unlike Pakistan where schools reject such thoughts.

Well done, so before 6000 years acc to you Hindus ancestors were believers of something else. To say your ancestors were...its not very intelligent by some.

Dont spend your time worrying about Pakistan when it has nothing to do with this thread but since you bought it up.

If Hindus believe in evolution, do they believe we were all monkeys and evolved?

 

[KingKhanWC]

Last 5000-6000 years of dated history and arfifacts points to origins of initial form of Hinduism.
That is where our History starts in schools.
Off course Science is taught and biological evolution is taught and accepted unlike Pakistan where schools reject such thoughts.

The Andamanese people are thought to have arrived in subcontinent about 26000 years ago.
So my guess is that migration to India from Africa were on the rise during that time. They probably created first prototype social culture over the time. They are strong candidates for developing early Harappan civilization. Aryan migration to India from Middle East started about 2000 BC. Their beliefs integrated with existing indigenous culture giving rise to Hinduism.

The first religious first belief were centered around celestial objects and prediction of weather etc. Sun worshiping was very prevalent among older religions. The belief of one true God came after that.

In early 80's during my school time, Indian history started from Harappa , then Aryan migration. However not much details were given. Detailed Indian history started at around 400 BC. From Buddha to Alexander invasion to Ashoka and so on.

Thanks, interesting.

Belief in one God was around at the time of the Egyptian empire and evidence also shows long before.

 

[Justcrazy]

Yes. And thats why their numbers are dwindling. Also they marry outside their faith a lot and their mixed race kids are not accepted as Parsis. Like Rahul Gandhi was born to Parsi dad. Adding to their decline in numbers. In a few decades they will probably be extinct

They marry oputsie because of lack of options.

 

[Justcrazy]

You are a Hindu already. If you get a DNA test of your ancestry done, you will trace the ancestry to parts of India before partition.
At some point of time, your ancestors would have accepted and converted to Islam. The whole region of modern Pakistan belonged to various Hindu sects.

According to Islam , Adam was first Human , and he is a prophet of Islam , so my main ancestor was a Muslim.

 

[Justcrazy]

This actually correct. Most upper class Hindus are not very religious and very superficial knowledge of heir religion beyond certain rituals / customs / diet. But it applies to upper classes across religions in India - Hindu, SIkhs, Muslims , CHristians. They do not really follow their religion so rigorously

One of things In noticed about Pakistanis when I met them in Europe and USA - they are very religious compared to an average Indian muslim !

Once I was having a discussion with a hindu priest. He is a educated professionally as well , in the health care field. On weekends he does rituals for different hindu families . He lives in the west. He is well versed in Hindu scriptues and fluent in sanskrit.

When I started talking about Vedas which is shruity in Hindu jurisprudence , he point blank told me he does not believe in them , he said these were written by sages long long back and are not relevant today. Thus I could not proceed with any discussions because now there was NO base for discussion , because If you negate the primary scripture , there is No hinduism. It simply does not make sense.

 

[Technics 1210]

This thread has proven beyond doubt that Hinduism (Bharminism) doesn't have any core principles or values, it is literally a free for all - pick and choose.

This is further endorsed by the fact that despite Hinduism being the oldest religion on Earth (as per claim) it has failed to dominate the 4 corners of the earth, yet younger, logical and principled religions (Abrahamic) have gone on to dominate humanity in a 3rd of the time.

 

[sweep_shot]

This thread has proven beyond doubt that Hinduism (Bharminism) doesn't have any core principles or values, it is literally a free for all - pick and choose.

This is further endorsed by the fact that despite Hinduism being the oldest religion on Earth (as per claim) it has failed to dominate the 4 corners of the earth, yet younger, logical and principled religions (Abrahamic) have gone on to dominate humanity in a 3rd of the time.

Yeah. It doesn't seem like Hinduism has any real structure. It is like anything goes based on whims and desires.

It seems like Hinduism is a mixture of different micro-religions. These all got combined.

 

[Technics 1210]

Yeah. It doesn't seem like Hinduism has any real structure. It is like anything goes based on whims and desires.

It seems like Hinduism is a mixture of different micro-religions. These all got combined.

The way I see it, Hinduism isn't a religion, but a fusion of culture.

 

[jeetu]

Thanks, interesting.

Belief in one God was around at the time of the Egyptian empire and evidence also shows long before.

Moses is one of the primary figure in Abrahamic faith. His time period was around 1500 BC.

 

[jeetu]

If Hindus believe in evolution, do they believe we were all monkeys and evolved?

Hinduism is full of hybrid gods. Face of animal over human body. Early avatar of Lord Vishnu is good example of that. In Ramayana ape-human hybrids characters plays major part.
Personally i believe in evolution. Apes and humans had common ancestor. "Lucy" is good example of that. One line stuck to trees and evolved into Apes. Other line preferred migration and evolved into humans.

 

[PakLFC]

Sati as we know came into existence during 500 AD. Rajputs used to follow them during Mughal era and existed until recent times. Before that It was more of a symbolical practice.

Symbolic??Buddha was around during the time of this sati thing. Being burnt with your hubby may have been called something different then.

 

[PakLFC]

2019? It was abolished in 1829. However after the Rajasthan sati case that you referred to in the link posted was in 1987 and post that the Bill was passed that made even the glorification of sati punishable by law.

Such things happen in the rarest parts of India. No bill or lawyer even go to these places.

 

[PakLFC]

Bro, you are talking about things you have no clue about. Hinduism did not exist during Buddha's time. There were only various cults which shared a lot of commonality.
There is no evidence of Sati during Buddha's time. Caste system was also fluid during his time. Anyone can become one of the 4 castes depending on their attributes. This is why Buddha was never against caste system.

Only Sikhism rejected caste system and meaningless Brahmin rituals. This is because Hinduism had become very rigid by then and caste was decided by birth rather than their Gunas (attributes).

I have more then a clue as to what I am saying. Firstly as Gandhi admitted it s very hard to say what exactly Hinduism is. Unlike Islam even Christianity there is no definition as to what it is and how to define it. Hindu's claim that thir faith to be the oldest in the world then how could it not have existed during Buddha's time?. First make up your mind on such things. Does Hinduism predate Buddha or vice versa?

Buddha like Nanak did reject the caste system. Only difference is that Sikh's believe in a creator where as the Buddhists do not. Have you visited all of ancient India that you know sati did not happen anywhere during that period?. Yes it did until being abolished buut even today the tradition most likely goes on in the most backward and remotest parts of India.

 

[Champ_Pal]

I have more then a clue as to what I am saying. Firstly as Gandhi admitted it s very hard to say what exactly Hinduism is. Unlike Islam even Christianity there is no definition as to what it is and how to define it. Hindu's claim that thir faith to be the oldest in the world then how could it not have existed during Buddha's time?. First make up your mind on such things. Does Hinduism predate Buddha or vice versa?

Buddha like Nanak did reject the caste system. Only difference is that Sikh's believe in a creator where as the Buddhists do not. Have you visited all of ancient India that you know sati did not happen anywhere during that period?. Yes it did until being abolished buut even today the tradition most likely goes on in the most backward and remotest parts of India.

Modern Hinduism is very different to the much older Sanatana Dharma. If anyone says Hinduism is the oldest religion, then they have no idea what they are talking about. The present day Hinduism you see is younger than even Islam.
The cults of Shakti (Goddess worship), Shiva, Kali (Goddess) is extremely world. No one knows how old they exactly are. Some date it back to Indus Valley Civilization. All these deities are still worshipped even today.
The North Western parts of India where Vedic religion was popular is also older than Buddha by a few centuries. Though Vedic Gods are vastly forgotten except for Brahmin Vedic chants, they are still part of the modern Hindu Pantheon.
In conclusion, modern Hinduism which includes all local deities from various parts of the country and stories about them is very young. However, the cults which have existed in India for thousands of years are extremely old. They are still practiced today.

Guru Nanak was completely against Caste System and rejected Brahmin hegemony. He mocked their rituals by calling them meaningless. Buddha taught equality of people. Every soul is equal irrespective of their caste. I did not see any evidence to where Buddha targeted caste system like Nanak Devji.

Sati was an abhorrent system that was rightfully abolished. There are no reported cases of Sati anymore. Like polio, it has been abolished.

 

[PakLFC]

Modern Hinduism is very different to the much older Sanatana Dharma. If anyone says Hinduism is the oldest religion, then they have no idea what they are talking about. The present day Hinduism you see is younger than even Islam.
The cults of Shakti (Goddess worship), Shiva, Kali (Goddess) is extremely world. No one knows how old they exactly are. Some date it back to Indus Valley Civilization. All these deities are still worshipped even today.
The North Western parts of India where Vedic religion was popular is also older than Buddha by a few centuries. Though Vedic Gods are vastly forgotten except for Brahmin Vedic chants, they are still part of the modern Hindu Pantheon.
In conclusion, modern Hinduism which includes all local deities from various parts of the country and stories about them is very young. However, the cults which have existed in India for thousands of years are extremely old. They are still practiced today.

Guru Nanak was completely against Caste System and rejected Brahmin hegemony. He mocked their rituals by calling them meaningless. Buddha taught equality of people. Every soul is equal irrespective of their caste. I did not see any evidence to where Buddha targeted caste system like Nanak Devji.

Sati was an abhorrent system that was rightfully abolished. There are no reported cases of Sati anymore. Like polio, it has been abolished.

So as I say it is difficult to define Hinduism as to exactly what it is. The RSS are always preaching that Hinduism is the oldest religion ever not that it makes any difference to it's authenticity. The thing is how do we differentiate today's Hinduism to it's ancient or original counterpart? What God or Goddess was originally part of the faith and what ones have been added afterwards?

So in your opinion Buddha believed in caste but not any concept of God?. Sikh's despite whatever Nanak said very much practise the caste system too in their pride of being Jat's. the term Jat Sik are synonomous with each other probably because almost all Sikh's are off Jatt background Punjabis. Do some research as to iff or not Buddha believed in the caste system or not.

India has done well to eradicate polio where as sati could very well still be practised in the remotest area's of your country. No one will report on these matters for obvious reasons, the faithful see it as a religious act.

 

[Champ_Pal]

So as I say it is difficult to define Hinduism as to exactly what it is. The RSS are always preaching that Hinduism is the oldest religion ever not that it makes any difference to it's authenticity. The thing is how do we differentiate today's Hinduism to it's ancient or original counterpart? What God or Goddess was originally part of the faith and what ones have been added afterwards?

So in your opinion Buddha believed in caste but not any concept of God?. Sikh's despite whatever Nanak said very much practise the caste system too in their pride of being Jat's. the term Jat Sik are synonomous with each other probably because almost all Sikh's are off Jatt background Punjabis. Do some research as to iff or not Buddha believed in the caste system or not.

India has done well to eradicate polio where as sati could very well still be practised in the remotest area's of your country. No one will report on these matters for obvious reasons, the faithful see it as a religious act.

There are no reported cases of Sati deaths. That is all I can say.

Brahmanical hegemony started taking place with the decline of Buddhism. Both Sanatana Dharma and Buddhism and even Jainism were patronized by different dynasties in India. Buddhism was at its peak in India during Mauryan dynasty. India is an agrarian country. People rely on crops and rain. It’s a matter of life and death for villages. Buddhism will not suit them as people want to believe that pleasing a higher being will yield good crops.

I believe both Buddhism and Jainism dominated urban areas. Rural were practicing the age old sanatana dharma. With the decline of Buddhism around 7th-8th century, Brahmins took advantage of the situation and spread their ideology and converted urban population also to Sanatana fold. They did it by cleverly calling Buddha as an avatar of Vishnu.

There is no evidence that Buddha believed in caste or not. He believed all humans are equal. Around the time of Buddha, caste was fluid.

Just an FYI, Jains in India believe that theirs is the oldest religion in the world. But Hindus count Jains as their own.

 

[PakLFC]

There are no reported cases of Sati deaths. That is all I can say.

Brahmanical hegemony started taking place with the decline of Buddhism. Both Sanatana Dharma and Buddhism and even Jainism were patronized by different dynasties in India. Buddhism was at its peak in India during Mauryan dynasty. India is an agrarian country. People rely on crops and rain. It’s a matter of life and death for villages. Buddhism will not suit them as people want to believe that pleasing a higher being will yield good crops.

I believe both Buddhism and Jainism dominated urban areas. Rural were practicing the age old sanatana dharma. With the decline of Buddhism around 7th-8th century, Brahmins took advantage of the situation and spread their ideology and converted urban population also to Sanatana fold. They did it by cleverly calling Buddha as an avatar of Vishnu.

There is no evidence that Buddha believed in caste or not. He believed all humans are equal. Around the time of Buddha, caste was fluid.

Just an FYI, Jains in India believe that theirs is the oldest religion in the world. But Hindus count Jains as their own.

Millions of crimes in India and all third world countries go unreported does not mean they don't happen. The thread here is "how to become a Hindu" not the decline of anything or how it came in to being. So if Buddha believes all people are equal then that itself contradicts the caste system. Hindu's much to the anger of of the Sikh's even count them as being their own.

"Buddhism will not suit them as people want to believe that pleasing a higher being will yield good crops.". That is because the greedy Brahmins also known as baniya wants everyone else's share of food and money. Even in old Indian films they were shown as greedy and corrupt.

 

[PakLFC]

There are no reported cases of Sati deaths. That is all I can say.

Brahmanical hegemony started taking place with the decline of Buddhism. Both Sanatana Dharma and Buddhism and even Jainism were patronized by different dynasties in India. Buddhism was at its peak in India during Mauryan dynasty. India is an agrarian country. People rely on crops and rain. It’s a matter of life and death for villages. Buddhism will not suit them as people want to believe that pleasing a higher being will yield good crops.

I believe both Buddhism and Jainism dominated urban areas. Rural were practicing the age old sanatana dharma. With the decline of Buddhism around 7th-8th century, Brahmins took advantage of the situation and spread their ideology and converted urban population also to Sanatana fold. They did it by cleverly calling Buddha as an avatar of Vishnu.

There is no evidence that Buddha believed in caste or not. He believed all humans are equal. Around the time of Buddha, caste was fluid.

Just an FYI, Jains in India believe that theirs is the oldest religion in the world. But Hindus count Jains as their own.

Millions of crimes in India and all third world countries go unreported does not mean they don't happen. The thread here is "how to become a Hindu" not the decline of anything or how it came in to being. So if Buddha believes all people are equal then that itself contradicts the caste system. Hindu's much to the anger of of the Sikh's even count them as being their own.

"Buddhism will not suit them as people want to believe that pleasing a higher being will yield good crops.". That is because the greedy Brahmins also known as baniya wants everyone else's share of food and money. Even in old Indian films they were shown as greedy and corrupt.

 

[jeetu]

Budhism , Jainism and Hinduism can be broadly categorized under Dharmic Religion.
Regarding Jainism its pretty old , it might even predate Hinduism. The most famous Jainism figurehead is Mahavira who lived during the time of Buddha. Mahavira was 24th spiritual leader of Jain community.

While Hinduism has differences with Jainism. Intermarriages between Jain and Hindu community (particularly Vaish/Baniya) is very common.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Millions of crimes in India and all third world countries go unreported does not mean they don't happen. The thread here is "how to become a Hindu" not the decline of anything or how it came in to being. So if Buddha believes all people are equal then that itself contradicts the caste system. Hindu's much to the anger of of the Sikh's even count them as being their own.

"Buddhism will not suit them as people want to believe that pleasing a higher being will yield good crops.". That is because the greedy Brahmins also known as baniya wants everyone else's share of food and money. Even in old Indian films they were shown as greedy and corrupt.

What the hell man??

So, yes Sati is still widely practiced in remote parts of India. Are you happy now?

Hinduism itself is a conglomeration of all native cults. For them incorporating Jains or Buddhists or Sikhs under their umbrella is not a big deal. Whether Jains or Buddhists or Sikhs accept this is a different story.

You have a very wrong opinion on Hinduism. It has its draw backs and it is updating itself and always has been. It was never a rigid ideology.

Do not base your opinions based on stupid Bollywood. Old Bollywood films always has shown Brahmins and Baniyas as evil.

 

[jeetu]

Credit goes to reformer like Raja Ram Mohan Roy who along with british empire enacted laws banning Sati.
Sati was Lord Shiva first wife who self immolated after her father insulted her husband. The most famous case of "Sati" is mentioned in Mahabharata where Madri volunteerly commited Sati.
During Middle ages it got twisted into a forced practice among some sections in north India. It was even mentioned in "Around the World in 80 Days".
Now a days case forced "Sati" are not heard of. But every few years suicide by ladies doing "Sati" comes to light. Last such case i heard was around 15 years back.

 

[PakLFC]

What the hell man??

So, yes Sati is still widely practiced in remote parts of India. Are you happy now?

Hinduism itself is a conglomeration of all native cults. For them incorporating Jains or Buddhists or Sikhs under their umbrella is not a big deal. Whether Jains or Buddhists or Sikhs accept this is a different story.

You have a very wrong opinion on Hinduism. It has its draw backs and it is updating itself and always has been. It was never a rigid ideology.

Do not base your opinions based on stupid Bollywood. Old Bollywood films always has shown Brahmins and Baniyas as evil.

Brahmin's have an image of being greedy and looting people as shown in old Bollywood pics where commonly they would be sitting behind a locked cage. I remember one such film was the old "Ganga ki Saughand" with Amitabh and Rekha where some old man was looting the village.

My view of Hinduism is not of that of an evil ideology. Like the Taliban do not represent Muslim's Hindutva doesn't do so the Hindu's either. It is a combination of many beliefs from the most lofty philosophies to the rather weird ones. It is a big issue for the Sikh's when you call them Hindu's! They find it to be very
offensive. Sati practises have greatly been reduced to a miniscule yet not completely abolished in rural India is my view on this.

 

[PakLFC]

What the hell man??

So, yes Sati is still widely practiced in remote parts of India. Are you happy now?

Hinduism itself is a conglomeration of all native cults. For them incorporating Jains or Buddhists or Sikhs under their umbrella is not a big deal. Whether Jains or Buddhists or Sikhs accept this is a different story.

You have a very wrong opinion on Hinduism. It has its draw backs and it is updating itself and always has been. It was never a rigid ideology.

Do not base your opinions based on stupid Bollywood. Old Bollywood films always has shown Brahmins and Baniyas as evil.

Brahmin's have an image of being greedy and looting people as shown in old Bollywood pics where commonly they would be sitting behind a locked cage. I remember one such film was the old "Ganga ki Saughand" with Amitabh and Rekha where some old man was looting the village.

My view of Hinduism is not of that of an evil ideology. Like the Taliban do not represent Muslim's Hindutva doesn't do so the Hindu's either. It is a combination of many beliefs from the most lofty philosophies to the rather weird ones. It is a big issue for the Sikh's when you call them Hindu's! They find it to be very
offensive. Sati practises have greatly been reduced to a miniscule yet not completely abolished in rural India is my view on this.

 

[jeetu]

Sikhism deviated enough from typical Hinduism and Islam teachings to became a standalone religion. Sikhism borrowed teaching from Islam as well as Hinduism.
Sikhism is a monotheistic religion advocating the belief in One Universal God signified by the term Ik Onkar. In Sikhism, the overall concept of God is Waheguru considered to be shapeless, timeless , incomprehensible and invisible.
Sikh leader's conflict with Mughal rulers made them aligned more culturally inclined with Hinduism.