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How to stop BazBall?

Xoib

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Ok one option is making a track with something in it for the bowlers.

But Pakistan is a white ball attack on most times so they have quality to pin attacking batsman down.

What do they need to do to stop England from going 6-7 an over?
 
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Ok one option is making a track with something in it for the bowlers.

But Pakistan is a white ball attack on most times so they have quality to pin attacking batsman down.

What do they need to do to stop England from going 6-7 an over?

You do what South Africa do or take the game to them
 
They are better off just bowling as if they’re bowling in a white ball game
 
They are better off just bowling as if they’re bowling in a white ball game

This is what i think as well.

Maybe bring Shadab and Nawaz prepare turners, with England approach you could be bowling no moreb then 50 or 60 overs an innings
 
One thing is for sure the patta approach plays in to bazball hands.
 
Pacers need to bowl as if they are bowling at the death in an ODI or T20 game ie slower balls, bouncers, block hole yorkers.

You need an intelligent captain with field placings as well.
 
The pacers need to get in to white ball mindset. More yorkers, bouncers and slower balls on these tracks typical test match length bowling is being treated like dearh overs in odi
 
There is a fine line between bravery and stupidity. England declaring so early on a flat road is stupidity.
 
Pragmatism. Not lurching from one extreme to the other.

Having a competent captain is essential
 
There is a fine line between bravery and stupidity. England declaring so early on a flat road is stupidity.

Premature posting is the only stupidity. Shafique and Babar are Pak’s two best players and England have already got them out. Declaration now being strongly suggested as a good one.
 
First of all, don't give them pattas.

Crawley, Pope are all decent players but nothing more.

Tracks which support pacers early on and have ample support for the spinners is the way ahead.
 
Pakistan should prepare greenish wicket they have chance to win then cause this english side isn't great against seam ,swing and spin but pak lacking in spinner so spinning track can backfire
 
Pakistan should prepare greenish wicket they have chance to win then cause this english side isn't great against seam ,swing and spin but pak lacking in spinner so spinning track can backfire
Seaming track will definitely backfire..

Anderson and Ollie Robinson are better than all Pakistani pacers playing this match especially on green tracks.

Pitches helping spinners are the only way ahead.
 
Prepare a seaming track and take them head ln. Their bowling attack isnt that great.

If they can smash a moving ball all over the place than hats off. I doubt it.
 
I think this Bazball tactic will fail after the likes of Stokes, Bairstow, and Butler are gone. Not everyone can pull it off.
 
Well roads is playing into their hands

The pitches need something in them to help the bowlers Whether its more turn bounce or seam

These flat pitches are helping englands batting more than pakistan and need to be binned
 
Premature posting is the only stupidity. Shafique and Babar are Pak’s two best players and England have already got them out. Declaration now being strongly suggested as a good one.

Pakistan is in the driver’s seat and will have to play awfully bad on day 5 to loose.

Sorry but this is a dumb declaration from England. This is not how test cricket is played.

Like I said Pakistan can still loose but for that to happen they will have to play really poor.
 
Bazball hasn't really been tested yet. Let's see how Bazball goes in India or in Australia first.
 
Make a half decent pitch, they will still go for it but won't get more than 250. We played riht into their hands, Rameez wants supporting pitches that are not typical like typical pakistani pitches, you get pitches like aus and this match. Pakistani paiches have always been low and slow, we need to make pitches with a local flavor and select team to exploit it.

We seem eager to play on pitches that are copies of pitches somewhere else and in the process have forgot what our strengths are or how to take 20 wickets. This whole idea of having englnad or australia like pitches tooting around by IK and his minion Rameez ia flawed to start with. We did fine tin eh 80s and 90s and and didn't have pitches that were copies of australian or english pitches.
 
The real Bazball merchant is not even here. Bairstow. He was the sole guy who created success with this approach. Others just chipped in not at the same tempo. This is the first time entire England unit bazballed.
 
Bazball hasn't really been tested yet. Let's see how Bazball goes in India or in Australia first.

Yup - I think it’s fairly obvious it won’t work on the bouncier pitches in Aus. England struggled to score at a decent rate in Perth and Melbourne in the World Cup and that’s a pretty good barometer
 
Premature posting is the only stupidity. Shafique and Babar are Pak’s two best players and England have already got them out. Declaration now being strongly suggested as a good one.

99% they would lose declaring like this on a pitch with zero deterioration. Maybe they'll get lucky this time but it's a suicidal declaration.
 
99% they would lose declaring like this on a pitch with zero deterioration. Maybe they'll get lucky this time but it's a suicidal declaration.

It won’t be “lucky” if England pull off a win.
 
Yup - I think it’s fairly obvious it won’t work on the bouncier pitches in Aus. England struggled to score at a decent rate in Perth and Melbourne in the World Cup and that’s a pretty good barometer

That is white ball. Brendon is the red ball coach
 
Pretty simple. The Bharat Arum ruthless off, middle stump full or just short of a length attack by the pacers with a packed leg side field.
 
It won’t be “lucky” if England pull off a win.

It will be and Bazball will not last past the next away ashes. You cannot play like this against good bowlers away from home. It's just a lazy way of playing.
 
This approach will not work on difficult wickets ie mindfields of India, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Pacy, Bouncy wickets of Australia, South Africa etc
 
Simple, stop playing the No Balls approach, aka bowling 5 garbage deliveries down the legside before bowling a good one, using nepotism to pick spinners to play instead of stats and potential, and batting with a negative mindset even if the pitch is a banquet for batsmen and thus stop gifting wickets to part timers and making them look like Warne and McGrath.

What England is doing is risky, and if we had a proper attack we could’ve restricted them further. Ben Duckett and Stokes dismissal are prime examples of that. As usual, Pakistan is too mentally weak to capitalize.

However the captain is, his mental strength leaks through to the rest of the team.
 
99% they would lose declaring like this on a pitch with zero deterioration. Maybe they'll get lucky this time but it's a suicidal declaration.
Exactly my point. Its as if they have zero pride and dont care if they loose
 
It is absolutely criminal that Jos Buttler, the most devastating ball striker in the world, is not part of Bazball.
 
Do not give them highways to bat on. A green pitch or a turning one and these guys wouldn't have scored 150.
 
Get better at smashing it too, and beat ENG at their own game.
 
Pakistan is in the driver’s seat and will have to play awfully bad on day 5 to loose.

Sorry but this is a dumb declaration from England. This is not how test cricket is played.

Like I said Pakistan can still loose but for that to happen they will have to play really poor.

Why shouldn't test cricket be played like this?

I tell you what - I personally prefer Stokes thrilling approach to the dull approach Babar and Rameez have forced upon us in recent tests.

Stokes has turned a complete bore-fest into a thriller.

England may lose the test but they are helping to ensure the overall viability of test cricket as a format.
 
It is absolutely criminal that Jos Buttler, the most devastating ball striker in the world, is not part of Bazball.

ENG pick test keepers in tests these days.

Keep LO keepers in LO.
 
It is absolutely criminal that Jos Buttler, the most devastating ball striker in the world, is not part of Bazball.

Their strength and depth is extraordinary across all formats not just Bazball.

Joe Root who is smashing bowlers around, playing audacious switch hits shots as a left hander is surplus to requirements in T20s.

Stokes cant be bothered in ODIs.

Buttler surplus to requirements in tests.

In any other country the loss of these types of players in each format would be enough to cripple a side.
 
Why shouldn't test cricket be played like this?

I tell you what - I personally prefer Stokes thrilling approach to the dull approach Babar and Rameez have forced upon us in recent tests.

Stokes has turned a complete bore-fest into a thriller.

England may lose the test but they are helping to ensure the overall viability of test cricket as a format.

I agree with you.

The game of cricket comes first, and one-off results that will soon be forgotten by most come second.

It’s very interesting, on a number of levels, that some people who have entered this discussion cannot see beyond a very limited line of sight.
(and I include a number of the England “fans” across social media today in this as well.)
 
England assistant coach Paul Collingwood heaped praise on Ben Stokes and Brendon McCullum after another enterprising day of Test cricket against Pakistan, insisting they were 'two guys willing to risk everything to make sure this game survives'.

As baffled local journalists quizzed him about the wisdom of Stokes's declaration, which left Pakistan to make 343 in four sessions on a Rawalpindi pitch that has refused to break up, Collingwood said England had the wider picture to consider at a time when the Test format is fighting for its life.

'It's magnificent in terms of the bigger picture,' he said. 'When Baz and Ben took over, the number one priority was to make Test cricket entertaining, like T20 has been.

'When you ask players what they want to play, it's Test cricket, but we have to make it more entertaining. We already feel like pioneers. The way we're bating is putting opposition under pressure. It's exciting to experience. If the by-product is winning, so be it. If we lose and it's been exciting, it's still a win for Test cricket.'

'There's no shame in losing if you put yourself in a position to win. We're not here to draw: we're here for results.'

Collingwood played the last of his 68 Tests for England during the victorious 2010-11 Ashes campaign. Later that year, a team captained by Andrew Strauss and coached by Andy Flower rose to the top of the Test rankings.

But their style of play was chalk to the current team's cheese. Not even with Kevin Pietersen in the side did they manage 218 in a session, as Stokes's side did on the fourth day.

'In my day, we were always worried about the consequences,' said Collingwood, 'like ringing the wife or what you guys would say. But they're bringing the fun back into it.

'Sometimes I think it's crazy, in a good way. I would never have come up with some of these ideas, but it's great to see. When it comes off, it's genius. When it doesn't, so be it.'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/c...-magnificent-Ben-Stokes-Brendon-McCullum.html
 
You can't stop it.

You can try but they just keep coming at you.

Look at Jacks today came in at 7 and smashed 24 off 13.

It's relentless.
 
You can't stop it.

You can try but they just keep coming at you.

Look at Jacks today came in at 7 and smashed 24 off 13.

It's relentless.

They've had a good run no doubt but this is the end of it. Can see them facing a string of defeats soon.
 
Why shouldn't test cricket be played like this?

I tell you what - I personally prefer Stokes thrilling approach to the dull approach Babar and Rameez have forced upon us in recent tests.

Stokes has turned a complete bore-fest into a thriller.

England may lose the test but they are helping to ensure the overall viability of test cricket as a format.

Basically you dont give opposition 100+ overs to chase 340 on the flattest road ever.

England should have batted for 6-7 more overs, scored 50 more runs and put itself in a position where it cant lose.

One must keep defence tight before attack.
 
Basically you dont give opposition 100+ overs to chase 340 on the flattest road ever.

England should have batted for 6-7 more overs, scored 50 more runs and put itself in a position where it cant lose.

One must keep defence tight before attack.

I saw Stokes first interview when he became skipper.

He said he won't be trying to draw matches.

The scenario that you have presented ( batting 6-7 more overs) would not be seen by Brendan and Stokes to be putting them in a position they can't lose.

They would see it as putting them in a position where they can't win!

The Bazball strategy is the biggest revolution in the history of test cricket. We need to buckle up and fasten our seatbelts while these guys attempt to achieve a significant paradigm shift in cricketing strategy, thought and execution.
 
It’s one of the best things to happen to test cricket. What will stand England in good stead with this approach is they’ll enjoy it and won’t be afraid to lose.

Once you take the fear of losing out of a side, they don’t lose very often
 
I saw Stokes first interview when he became skipper.

He said he won't be trying to draw matches.

The scenario that you have presented ( batting 6-7 more overs) would not be seen by Brendan and Stokes to be putting them in a position they can't lose.

They would see it as putting them in a position where they can't win!

The Bazball strategy is the biggest revolution in the history of test cricket. We need to buckle up and fasten our seatbelts while these guys attempt to achieve a significant paradigm shift in cricketing strategy, thought and execution.

Its just a fad. When you are bowled out for sub 100 scores in the Ashes and India they will change soon enough.
 
Its just a fad. When you are bowled out for sub 100 scores in the Ashes and India they will change soon enough.

They lose in India and Australia anyway so will go down swinging.

Plus playing like this is the best way of maximising their domestic stock which consists of poor classical batsmen but an abdundance of hitters.
 
It's only because of England that anyone is getting up to watch this final day. Any other team and this match would be dead in the water.

Regardless of the outcome, full credit to BazBall.
 
I saw Stokes first interview when he became skipper.

He said he won't be trying to draw matches.

The scenario that you have presented ( batting 6-7 more overs) would not be seen by Brendan and Stokes to be putting them in a position they can't lose.

They would see it as putting them in a position where they can't win!

The Bazball strategy is the biggest revolution in the history of test cricket. We need to buckle up and fasten our seatbelts while these guys attempt to achieve a significant paradigm shift in cricketing strategy, thought and execution.

Look I am all for being aggressive and going for a win but England has done two things wrong here:
1. They have miscalculated their risk
2. They have underestimated Pakistan

They just needed to bat more 6-7 more overs and that was it.

When they loose a few test matches with such suicidal declarations, then all the gas will be leaked out of Bazball.
 
their approach isn't challenged by a single bowling/balanced pitch and why are we acting like we ran out of options. their last home summer was bloody hot and poor quality batch of dukes balls combined with their aggressive batting. now pak is giving them roads, again playing into their hands. damn, roll out a 300 run pitch which deteriorates as the match progresses. then let us see how they'll go with their 4th innings chase on that track.
 
Meet fire with fire. Play attacking Cricket like England to negate bazball!:usman If England lose the 1st test then perhaps bazball is not as great as they thought it was.
 
Foakes is not Test class.

Clearly Foakes is the test keeper in England & Wales.

As a batter he has the same test average as Buttler, and as many test centuries as Buttler in half the number of tests.

Buttler is captain of the LO sides and is best suited to that role. One century every thirty tests is not enough to offset his drop machine test antics.
 
Look I am all for being aggressive and going for a win but England has done two things wrong here:
1. They have miscalculated their risk
2. They have underestimated Pakistan

They just needed to bat more 6-7 more overs and that was it.

When they loose a few test matches with such suicidal declarations, then all the gas will be leaked out of Bazball.

Depends on the win / loss percentage. So far Bazball is six wins and one loss in seven games.
 
Depends on the win / loss percentage. So far Bazball is six wins and one loss in seven games.

Spot on. The W / L at present is looking superb and so there is credit in the bank.

If England win this Test, it’s a fantastic result, and in my opinion it could be one of their best ever Test match wins.

If they lose… no bother. It’s only a game. Move onto the second Test and try to win that one instead.
 
Spot on. The W / L at present is looking superb and so there is credit in the bank.

If England win this Test, it’s a fantastic result, and in my opinion it could be one of their best ever Test match wins.

If they lose… no bother. It’s only a game. Move onto the second Test and try to win that one instead.

Aye. England’s difficulty in this match hasn’t been speed or scoring or timing of declaration. It’s the lack of a pace option on this pancake. With Wood out, Stone should be here.
 
Robbo power!

England seamers 5-79 this innings. Spinners wicketless.
 
Aye. England’s difficulty in this match hasn’t been speed or scoring or timing of declaration. It’s the lack of a pace option on this pancake. With Wood out, Stone should be here.

I think they expected spin to be more effective on the Pakistan pitches. The seamers have been much better. I expect that in the second Test they will remedy this and bring Wood in for Livingstone.
 
Look I am all for being aggressive and going for a win but England has done two things wrong here:
1. They have miscalculated their risk
2. They have underestimated Pakistan

They just needed to bat more 6-7 more overs and that was it.

When they loose a few test matches with such suicidal declarations, then all the gas will be leaked out of Bazball.

They have almost manufactured a win here with smart, high intensity cricket and innovative attacking fields. I still don't understand your point about batting 6-7 more overs. We have established that the concept of a Draw isn't in Stokes vocabulary, he isn't Babar.


Bazball has the full support of the ECB and their commercial partners too because their goal is bigger than drawing a test on a phatta. The goal is to make test cricket fun for players and fans, to hopefully make test cricket commercially viable and to make it an exciting prospect that players want to take part in.
 
Spot on. The W / L at present is looking superb and so there is credit in the bank.

If England win this Test, it’s a fantastic result, and in my opinion it could be one of their best ever Test match wins.

If they lose… no bother. It’s only a game. Move onto the second Test and try to win that one instead.

If England lose then they have still hopefully succeeded in shaming the PCB and the Pakistani think tank.

It's a tremendous act of sacrifice for the greater good of the game.
 
England forcing a win on this pitch is outrageous. Four Pakistani debutants, one single-handedly lost Pakistan the game while Jacks has won it for England
 
I think they expected spin to be more effective on the Pakistan pitches. The seamers have been much better. I expect that in the second Test they will remedy this and bring Wood in for Livingstone.

I would bring in Foakes for Livingstone, and Wood for Jimmy to give the old man a rest.
 
I think they expected spin to be more effective on the Pakistan pitches. The seamers have been much better. I expect that in the second Test they will remedy this and bring Wood in for Livingstone.

I'll be very surprised if a highly data driven team like England thought spin would have a greater impact in Pakistan. Unlike India, UAE and SL, the pitches rarely aid spin here.
 
I'll be very surprised if a highly data driven team like England thought spin would have a greater impact in Pakistan. Unlike India, UAE and SL, the pitches rarely aid spin here.

Perhaps the lack of an England tour for 17 years was a factor.
 
BazBall has already won. A test where we could have been yawning and would be just playing for a draw has turned into an exciting test going into day 5. All thanks to Stokes and BazBall.

Even if England end up losing, they would have not lost by more than 2-3 wickets, proving that they came close to their goal. Winning would back up BazBall and a draw would still make the test exciting.

The villain is surely the whoever ordered such a flat pitch. If England can make a game out of this by handicapping themselves, imagine what they would do if the pitch were more sporty.
 
That is white ball. Brendon is the red ball coach

I think regardless of the ball used, the point still stands. Its not an approach that will work in places like Australia or on a proper turner.

Heck, it's not been particularly impressive even on this pitch. If Bazball didn't for NZ when Baz was captain, I'm not sure why it will work for England.
 
BazBall and Test Cricket are not a marriage made in heaven. BazBall will trip over itself, like the current game is showing.

Pakistan just need 89 runs to win. What a slap on the face for those who were fancying England's changes and were so pessimistic over Pakistan's performance in the first few days of this test.
 
BazBall has already won. A test where we could have been yawning and would be just playing for a draw has turned into an exciting test going into day 5. All thanks to Stokes and BazBall.

Even if England end up losing, they would have not lost by more than 2-3 wickets, proving that they came close to their goal. Winning would back up BazBall and a draw would still make the test exciting.

The villain is surely the whoever ordered such a flat pitch. If England can make a game out of this by handicapping themselves, imagine what they would do if the pitch were more sporty.
lol, this approach should favor england, not babar and Pakistan management
 
BazBall and Test Cricket are not a marriage made in heaven. BazBall will trip over itself, like the current game is showing.

Pakistan just need 89 runs to win. What a slap on the face for those who were fancying England's changes and were so pessimistic over Pakistan's performance in the first few days of this test.

Cutting edge insight as ever.
 
lol, this approach should favor england, not babar and Pakistan management

And it didn’t. You need to be brave to play this way.

Of course, I am sure they won’t be implementing bazball to such an extent when playing away in India or Australia.

But at home and against most oppositions away, this will work more often than not.
 
How not to stop that is what we learnt lol I am doubtful if England could have run off like this against afg

Since May England in each innings. Six innings they have scored at more than 5 runs per over.

India outbazballed England at Birmingham where they scored @4.90 England @4.61. But India's ludicrous approach on day 4 cost them the game even after 140 run lead.

Screenshot-2022-12-05-082636.jpg
 
Make a half decent pitch, they will still go for it but won't get more than 250. We played riht into their hands, Rameez wants supporting pitches that are not typical like typical pakistani pitches, you get pitches like aus and this match. Pakistani paiches have always been low and slow, we need to make pitches with a local flavor and select team to exploit it.

We seem eager to play on pitches that are copies of pitches somewhere else and in the process have forgot what our strengths are or how to take 20 wickets. This whole idea of having englnad or australia like pitches tooting around by IK and his minion Rameez ia flawed to start with. We did fine tin eh 80s and 90s and and didn't have pitches that were copies of australian or english pitches.

Our success in the 80s and 90s were nothing to do with our home pitches. You keep repeating this like it's fact but the connection is purely incidental.

Our success then came from world-class cricketers who went through the finishing school of English County Championship where they were exposed to facilities, a variety of surfaces and coaches far better than what they grew up with.

Rameez is an imbecile not for wanting to improve the pitches, but for pedalling this fantasy of drop-in pitches. He doesn't seem to realise India, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh produce perfectly good turning Test wickets without drop-ins.

He's also an imbecile for giving unchecked power to the most dim captain we've produced in decades - who requests these dire pitches to save his skin and pad his numbers.
 
Our success in the 80s and 90s were nothing to do with our home pitches. You keep repeating this like it's fact but the connection is purely incidental.

Our success then came from world-class cricketers who went through the finishing school of English County Championship where they were exposed to facilities, a variety of surfaces and coaches far better than what they grew up with.

Rameez is an imbecile not for wanting to improve the pitches, but for pedalling this fantasy of drop-in pitches. He doesn't seem to realise India, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh produce perfectly good turning Test wickets without drop-ins.

He's also an imbecile for giving unchecked power to the most dim captain we've produced in decades - who requests these dire pitches to save his skin and pad his numbers.

At most 3 or 4 cricketers played country cricket in our starting X1 in 80s and 90s. Country cricket having an impact is a myth, we had a steady pipeline of talent that was groomed in the domestic circuit and many players who never made it to the second X1 would have been good enough o make out urgent first team.

We need to exploit conditions and select an X1 to suit our conditions, making pitches look more like english or aussie pitches isn't going to help anyone.
 
At most 3 or 4 cricketers played country cricket in our starting X1 in 80s and 90s. Country cricket having an impact is a myth, we had a steady pipeline of talent that was groomed in the domestic circuit and many players who never made it to the second X1 would have been good enough o make out urgent first team.

We need to exploit conditions and select an X1 to suit our conditions, making pitches look more like english or aussie pitches isn't going to help anyone.

I'm all for turning pitches like we see in India, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh for our home Tests but we aren't even capable of doing that.

This Pindi wicket was producing results in QEA Trophy. It's this cowardly excuse of a captain, given unchecked power by the motormouth chairman, who asked for a graveyard which played right into England's aggressive approach.
 
Pakistan for some reason is averse to including hard hitting batsmen in their test team. The test team is filled with traditional test batters from top to bottom, there is no one who can play an aggressive counter attacking innings. Mickey Arthur wanted to take Pakistan in this direction where he was including Sharjeel, Fakhar, Shadab, Faheem Ashraf in the test squad.
 
I'm all for turning pitches like we see in India, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh for our home Tests but we aren't even capable of doing that.

This Pindi wicket was producing results in QEA Trophy. It's this cowardly excuse of a captain, given unchecked power by the motormouth chairman, who asked for a graveyard which played right into England's aggressive approach.

I couldn't agree more. Rameez has his pet vanity projects like pjl that in no way impact first team results. We are the only international team without a proper support staff, Rameez is a passion merchant and a tik tok star who thinks paul loganning his way will reap rewards on the field.
 
Bazball is unsustainable.

Bazball worked because of Bairstow, Stokes, and Butler. Once these 3 retire, I think England may have to stop Bazball.
 
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