How worried are you about the future of Pakistan's middle order in the T20Is?

[Rana]

NGL, I ain’t too optimistic about Pakistan’s chances with a middle order of Salman at 3-4 and Shadab floating in around 5. It’s inevitable with Hesson now at the helm.

This is a really depressing middle order. You always felt IU needed their top order to fire hard and score the bulk runs, otherwise you will be struggling if you need Agha, Shadab, Azam and Haider to do the heavy lifting. They are all support role batters, they are not the guys who you can depend on to do the main work like you would with players such as Klaasen, Sky, Stoinis etc

We literally need Saim, Fakhar, Sahibzada, Nawaz to fire big for us or we will be in a lot of trouble going forward! I still can’t believe Shadab is seen as a number 5-6 by Hesson and Haider is seen as a number 8.

Ya Allah Khair!

 

[shamaan]

It will be interesting were Agha bats.

 

[mominsaigol]

NGL, I ain’t too optimistic about Pakistan’s chances with a middle order of Salman at 3-4 and Shadab floating in around 5. It’s inevitable with Hesson now at the helm.

This is a really depressing middle order. You always felt IU needed their top order to fire hard and score the bulk runs, otherwise you will be struggling if you need Agha, Shadab, Azam and Haider to do the heavy lifting. They are all support role batters, they are not the guys who you can depend on to do the main work like you would with players such as Klaasen, Sky, Stoinis etc

We literally need Saim, Fakhar, Sahibzada, Nawaz to fire big for us or we will be in a lot of trouble going forward! I still can’t believe Shadab is seen as a number 5-6 by Hesson and Haider is seen as a number 8.

Ya Allah Khair!

This is why sarfi should be made coach as he's Pakistani, won't quit unless PCB fires him and will stick it out and he understands Pakistan cricket.

Was the first to understand that hasan Nawaz is a solid middle order batter and not opening material.

 

[Greenstorm]

This is why sarfi should be made coach as he's Pakistani, won't quit unless PCB fires him and will stick it out and he understands Pakistan cricket.

Was the first to understand that hasan Nawaz is a solid middle order batter and not opening material.

What makes you think it was Sarfi's idea ? Hassan Nawaz could not open because of Finn Allen and Saud.

 

[Greenstorm]

Pakistan needs eitherFakhar or Hassan in middle order, even Khushdil is not a bad option.

1. Saim
2. Farhan
3. Fakhar
4. Salman
5. Khushdil
6. Hassan
7. Harris

OR

1. Saim
2. Farhan
3. Salman
4. Fakhar
5. Hassan
6. Khushdil
7. Harris

Either way I don't see Shadab's place in our lineup but that guy is our vice captain and is in good books of Hesson. I think he will go with Shadab over Khushdil.

 

[mominsaigol]

What makes you think it was Sarfi's idea ? Hassan Nawaz could not open because of Finn Allen and Saud.

Sarfi could have easily shoved Allen aside for nawaz

 

[Greenstorm]

Sarfi could have easily shoved Allen aside for nawaz

Nah Sarfi isn't that type. I doubt he has much say in that dugout. Its probably Moin and owner running the show along with Viv.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Hassan has performed in middle order and he should stay there...

Fakhar
saim
farhan
salman
hassan
shadab (I know he cannot be dropped), otherwise Khushdil

The current team does not fit Shadab tbh..

 

[cricfan432]

Not too worried, weve openers who can easily bat in middle as they know the art of clearing ropes and finding gaps. Maaz sadaqat an opener batted in middle, did fine. And as we go forward, i think more and more talent will be unearthed from psl and domestics. I think youngsters now know that they need to play fast.

 

[Rana]

This is why sarfi should be made coach as he's Pakistani, won't quit unless PCB fires him and will stick it out and he understands Pakistan cricket.

Was the first to understand that hasan Nawaz is a solid middle order batter and not opening material.

Tbh bro I get that, but you still need someone to draw a line on Shadab’s batting position and tie him down at number 8 at the max! This guy suddenly flying into number 4-7 is a real sign of concern and he’s going to do it more now that he is basically the captain of Pakistan

1. Fakhar
2. Saim/Sahibzada
3. Sahibzada
4. Nawaz
5. Agha

- - -
No issues here really

6. Khushdil
7. Harris
8. Faheem

No problem here either

9. Shadab

This is where he actually fits in. He will unsettle everything if he tries to bat any higher

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Tbh bro I get that, but you still need someone to draw a line on Shadab’s batting position and tie him down at number 8 at the max! This guy suddenly flying into number 4-7 is a real sign of concern and he’s going to do it more now that he is basically the captain of Pakistan

1. Fakhar
2. Saim/Sahibzada
3. Sahibzada
4. Nawaz
5. Agha

- - -
No issues here really

6. Khushdil
7. Harris
8. Faheem

No problem here either

9. Shadab

This is where he actually fits in. He will unsettle everything if he tries to bat any higher

It will be difficult to accommodate Shadab, Salman,.Khushdil and Faheem in one side. Particularly as Saim can also bowl a few overs.

I think Khushdil will mostly miss out. He has done well but was really a replacement for Sami.

Over the long run it will be difficult to accommodate both Salman and Shadab. Shadab was a solid bowling all rounder. I was hoping his bowling would get back to his best but he is bowling too many lollipop deliveries.

 

[Rana]

It will be difficult to accommodate Shadab, Salman,.Khushdil and Faheem in one side. Particularly as Saim can also bowl a few overs.

I think Khushdil will mostly miss out. He has done well but was really a replacement for Sami.

Over the long run it will be difficult to accommodate both Salman and Shadab. Shadab was a solid bowling all rounder. I was hoping his bowling would get back to his best but he is bowling too many lollipop deliveries.

Tbh there are sets of things you try and get right to find the perfect balance and combination. I’ve seen enough cricket over the years and one thing that I think Pakistan has missed the most is a proper lower order strike force that actually keeps them in the game and can take the game away from the opposition. Pakistan have dearly missed a lower explosive order of Afridi, Razzaq, Akmal (6-8). You were never out of the game with these 3 types of players in those positions.

You may laugh at me when I say this but for Pakistan to get even 40-50% close to that sort of impact and danger, they should just rely on Khushdil, Faheem and Harris in those positions. Do not disturb this, and let it run for 3-4 years. They will only become strong and reliable if they just let this run for a sustained amount of time instead of constant chopping and changing. All 3 are not old, and all 3 have plenty of experience now. Don’t look at their stats, just trust them as the players who you know are the right guys for these positions.

These Niazi’s or Samads etc, they are just not it for these positions mainly because they don’t bowl or keep. You can’t put too much pressure on specialist batsmen to do these high intensity roles knowing how ruthless the Pakistan fans and media are.

 

[mominsaigol]

Tbh bro I get that, but you still need someone to draw a line on Shadab’s batting position and tie him down at number 8 at the max! This guy suddenly flying into number 4-7 is a real sign of concern and he’s going to do it more now that he is basically the captain of Pakistan

1. Fakhar
2. Saim/Sahibzada
3. Sahibzada
4. Nawaz
5. Agha

- - -
No issues here really

6. Khushdil
7. Harris
8. Faheem

No problem here either

9. Shadab

This is where he actually fits in. He will unsettle everything if he tries to bat any higher

For some reason shadab views himself as a batting allrounder and not a bowling Allrounder

 

[Ball Blazer]

For some reason shadab views himself as a batting allrounder and not a bowling Allrounder

Couldn't agree more. That's why he is struggling with his core now.

 

[mominsaigol]

Couldn't agree more. That's why he is struggling with his core now.

He wasn't a bad bowler in 2017, but transitioned into batting and that's where it went wrong

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Tbh there are sets of things you try and get right to find the perfect balance and combination. I’ve seen enough cricket over the years and one thing that I think Pakistan has missed the most is a proper lower order strike force that actually keeps them in the game and can take the game away from the opposition. Pakistan have dearly missed a lower explosive order of Afridi, Razzaq, Akmal (6-8). You were never out of the game with these 3 types of players in those positions.

You may laugh at me when I say this but for Pakistan to get even 40-50% close to that sort of impact and danger, they should just rely on Khushdil, Faheem and Harris in those positions. Do not disturb this, and let it run for 3-4 years. They will only become strong and reliable if they just let this run for a sustained amount of time instead of constant chopping and changing. All 3 are not old, and all 3 have plenty of experience now. Don’t look at their stats, just trust them as the players who you know are the right guys for these positions.

These Niazi’s or Samads etc, they are just not it for these positions mainly because they don’t bowl or keep. You can’t put too much pressure on specialist batsmen to do these high intensity roles knowing how ruthless the Pakistan fans and media are.

I don't think Faheem is good enough for this role long term in international cricket. We are quite lucky that our opener Saim is also actually a decent bowler. I know you are not a fan but I don't think Niazi is too bad in the lower order. It is weird to see a batsman batting at 7 but if he is confident, can deliver, and we have the bowling options covered then he deserves a bit of a run.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

For some reason shadab views himself as a batting allrounder and not a bowling Allrounder

The reason is his bowling completely regressed so he thought he can stay involved by becoming a batsman. To his credit he hasn't done too badly. Whether he is good enough to play in the middle order is debatable but I have respect for the way he has managed to develop his batting. Not many Pakistani players take their time to develop their skills.

In an ideal world if he had this batting with his old bowling we would have a GOAT level t20 player! But sadly his bowling still isn't clicking.

 

[Mamoon]

Not worried because Imad Wasim, Asif Ali and Azam Khan will not play for Pakistan again.

 

[_Ace_]

Personally I think Salman Agha has given a good account of himself particuarly in the recent international context. I actually didn't expect him to turn out to be suitable for T20 but he's proved that notion wrong so far.

Another prospect to consider is Hassan Nawaz — I know he started off as an opener and his number 4 slot only came about as a forced change to fit Saud in the team, but he's actually turned out to be a pleasantly good fit in the middle order. If you analyze his strengths and weaknesses, his good long levers and bat swing are ideal to take on the spinners and the relatively slower bowlers in the middle overs, and then when he's set in the death overs he's been to be able to strike big and finish games off.

New ball swing and bounce (on pitches where it's prevelant, maybe not so much on the flatter decks) are what essentially give his batting technique the biggest challenge, so he just seems a natural fit in the middle order. Especially when you consider the fact that it's the top 3 slots that we have an abundant line of options for at this point.

So I do think the middle order can be built around those two.

As for Shadab, I would personally not play him at all — Don't rate his bowling one bit. But since we know he's going to get in no matter what, his most efficient utilization is as a spin bashing floater in the middle overs (particuarly against the likes of mystery spinners that Pak generally seem to struggle a lot against). That is the one use that can be made of him given that he's going to force his way in come what may.

 

[TeymurBlake]

Hmm interesting topic. Likewise with Hesson in charge Shadab will play.

1. Sahibzada Farhan
2. Saim Ayub
3. Fakhar Zaman
4. Agha Ali Salman (C)
5. Mohammad Haris (WK)
6. Hussain Talat/Khushdil Shah
7. Shadab Khan

I think you need Haris in the Middle order. He is a dynamic batter who needs this series to be prolific. There is no competition for his spot as a wicket keeper.

Fakhar Zaman needs to be the experience with Agha. Hussain Talat isn’t a big hitter but on form deserves a chance, however as does Khushdil Shah. It is a somewhat interesting dilemma.

Hassan Nawaz is another interesting option who could open but also come in No.5. Where he plays or when he plays will be interesting.