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Time up for the Babar Azam-Mohammad Rizwan opening partnership in T20Is?

People talk about pakistani players not being developed. How the heck are we suppose develop players if they are not getting any chance to play at a higher level, rizwan babar shadab rauf shaheen nawaz all need to be rested they have had enough practice for the past 4 years. After all this practice they are still failing
 
The problem is that with the T20 WC on the horizon it gives another excuse to PCB not to blood the exciting new talent we have and explore alternatives.
 
we have to remove these two as openers else we will keep loosing powerplays.

lets give a try to saim and fakhar to open.
 
FearlessRoar said:
Kamran Akmal, consultant of national team chief selector Wahab Riaz, while speaking on local media program denied the reports of resting Babar and Rizwan and said that:

"Neither the selection committee has thought of resting Babar Azam and Mohammad Rizwan nor the team management has said so, but there has been no discussion in this regard."

"Both are our best players and automatic choices that cannot be ignored as our team for any major cricket event is not complete without them. However, they can be rested against smaller teams where necessary to try out new players and build back-up."

"The purpose of selecting new players for the tour of New Zealand is also to prepare a back-up that will give them confidence when they play with players like Babar and Rizwan."

"I had been seeing for a few years that domestic cricket was not being given importance in the team selection and the team was being selected based on the performance of the PSL and that is why the team is in this state today while the players For the same reason, they are ignoring four-day domestic matches and giving priority to PSL."

"Pakistan cricket team's performance in T20 has always been excellent. The same team has won three national tournaments in New Zealand and has the potential to beat New Zealand at its home ground and win the T20 series as the national team has a good combination of batsmen at every number to win. Just have to play positively with passion, good plan."
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He also added

"Pakistan is going to New Zealand, not Nepal, where senior players can be rested. No one can think like that."

"Anyone given the responsibility of leadership or coaching should be given six to eight months, and after that, an assessment should be made."
 
FearlessRoar said:
He also added

"Pakistan is going to New Zealand, not Nepal, where senior players can be rested. No one can think like that."

"Anyone given the responsibility of leadership or coaching should be given six to eight months, and after that, an assessment should be made."
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When Ramiz or Sethi is back…Pakistan will not rest these players against Nepal as well. Winning against anyone equals money for them.
 
How else is Babar going to score 30 off 20 in the powerplay if he doesn’t get to face Nepal ever again in his lifetime?
 
Major said:
i completely agree with you.
Whenever the openers have changed they barely got a score. The afg series was best example of this.
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Failure in one series shouldn't be a reason to avoid further experimentation. Besides the conditions weren't easy for batting.

These random bilateral T20 series outside a World Cup are inconsequential. The result was instantly forgotten. You'd rather experiment in these contests than wait until the "settled combination" fails at a World Cup and we go into panic mode.
 
Markhor said:
Failure in one series shouldn't be a reason to avoid further experimentation. Besides the conditions weren't easy for batting.

These random bilateral T20 series outside a World Cup are inconsequential. The result was instantly forgotten. You'd rather experiment in these contests than wait until the "settled combination" fails at a World Cup and we go into panic mode.
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i agree that experiments should happen, but against weaker sides.

We cannot just eliminate Rizwan and Babar opening aswell and against sides like NZ they should play.

The issue is, there are vultures sitting and wanting Babar and Rizwan to fail so that they can be replaced by hitters. THis has been the story since 2010
 
Major said:
i agree that experiments should happen, but against weaker sides.

We cannot just eliminate Rizwan and Babar opening aswell and against sides like NZ they should play.

The issue is, there are vultures sitting and wanting Babar and Rizwan to fail so that they can be replaced by hitters. THis has been the story since 2010
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Can you list the schedule for Pakistan and what ‘weaker sides’ are in that schedule for us to experiment in? I await your response
 
I think the stats are misleading people. For some reason not outs distort the averages so one good innings is more important than an actual evenly weighted average and this then becomes very misleading.

For example, in 2023 t20i's, Babar offically averaged 43 with an strike rate of 146. He only scored 43 or more ONCE. He only batted at strike rate of 146 or more ONCE. Both Babar and Rizwans stats are blown out of proportion because they have a good game once a year. This has the same effect on peoples minds, they remember the hundreds but not the constant single-digit scores.

If we want to see the actual effectiveness of their partnership across all games in 2023 then their stats would look like this:

(without not-outs distorting the average)
Babar - Average: 32.5 Strike Rate: 106.23
Rizwan - Average: 40.5 Strike Rate: 111.28

Are strike rates of just above a run a ball good enough for t20s? Is this our greatest opening pair ever? Is this our benchmark?

They've played around 100 games each of t20i's and this is their peak(their 2022 stats are worse). Why cant we give the same opportunities to our young, modern batters like Mo Haris, Saim Ayub, Azam Khan, S Farhan? They're given 3/4 games and then kicked out.

Its the greatest illusion ever that these two are effective openers. In my opinion, one of them should be playing at no.3. At no one point should both be playing in the same team.
 
Maliq_Mudasir said:
The same logic you use while saying 'Rizwan doesn't deserved to be in national side'.
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What I say is logical. If Rizwan opens, he is poor. If he doesn’t, he won’t belong in the XI because there are better keeper/batsmen than him who are better T20 players.

So your logic of Fakhar at 4 is still nonsense whereas mines is correct.
 
Maliq_Mudasir said:
Rizwan
Saim
Babar
Fakhar

This should be our top 4.
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It's too early to consider Saim as a reliable opening batter. The ICC T20I World Cup 2024 is just around the corner. We already have a balanced T20I side, so changing the combination just before the World Cup doesn't make sense to me. But I know the management will definitely change the combination before the World Cup.
 
FearlessRoar said:
It's too early to consider Saim as a reliable opening batter. The ICC T20I World Cup 2024 is just around the corner. We already have a balanced T20I side, so changing the combination just before the World Cup doesn't make sense to me. But I know the management will definitely change the combination before the World Cup.
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As per Pp, if we change our combo, we gonna win T20 WC.
 
Rana said:
What I say is logical. If Rizwan opens, he is poor. If he doesn’t, he won’t belong in the XI because there are better keeper/batsmen than him who are better T20 players.

So your logic of Fakhar at 4 is still nonsense whereas mines is correct.
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There is no way you can drop Rizwan, who has proved to be vital against pace as well as spin in last 2 years. Our hacks won't survive even 5 overs of half decent spin.
 
Rana said:
What I say is logical. If Rizwan opens, he is poor. If he doesn’t, he won’t belong in the XI because there are better keeper/batsmen than him who are better T20 players.

So your logic of Fakhar at 4 is still nonsense whereas mines is correct.
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Maliq_Mudasir said:
There is no way you can drop Rizwan, who has proved to be vital against pace as well as spin in last 2 years. Our hacks won't survive even 5 overs of half decent spin.
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Adding to this, Rizwan average 56 as an opener at a SR of 130. More importantly averages 65 at a SR of 133 in winning cause.

So this should give you an idea how important he is to our fragile batting.
 
Cricket Warrior said:
@Rana r u ok with rizwan to open or u will place him down the order? may be at #4 and bring fakhar back as an opener with saim.
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Rizwan gets a shot in the middle to prove he can play. That’s the least I can do. He’s probably not going to be as useless as he used to be in the past in the middle.

But yes, Fakhar opens any day.
 
Rana said:
Rizwan gets a shot in the middle to prove he can play. That’s the least I can do. He’s probably not going to be as useless as he used to be in the past in the middle.

But yes, Fakhar opens any day.
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Comparing Rizwan with Fakhar, the later averages 22 at a SR of 136.

I am happy to take 50 at strike rate of 130 from an opener rather than 22 at a strike of 136. Plus there are more chances of Fakhar getting out in the power play considering his average, hence putting more pressure on the middle order.
 
Rizwan - Babar duo has a fantastic record together as openers in the t20s. I don't think that they will be changed but... in the presence of Rizbabar duo as openers, no new player can be tested at the top. SO one of them has to make way for some new guy to be tested like if you want to test Saim, then Rizwan and Saim can open and Babar can come down, o maybe just give a rest to these 2 batters and try new guys,
 
A source close to the two players said that former captain Babar and wicketkeeper-batter Rizwan had called up Wahab Riaz from Australia and sought a clarification regarding the white-ball series against the Blackcaps.

"Babar and Rizwan made it clear to the chief selector that they had never asked for any rest as they were doing fine. Then why were reports circulating in the media that the selectors were going to rest them," the insider said.

The source said that Riaz, a former Test fast bowler, had admitted to the duo that he had suggested resting them for a few matches against New Zealand, but later changed his mind.

"Wahab said he had made the suggestion with other selectors and team management. But all of them convinced him that the New Zealand series was important and was not one where the team could manage without two senior players in different conditions," the source said.

He said that Riaz had assured both Babar and Rizwan that whenever he did decide to rest them for any game or series, he would first speak to them and take their views into consideration before coming to a final decision.

"Wahab assured Babar and Rizwan they remained the backbone of the Pakistan team and their selection for the five-match T20I series confirmed this. So, they had nothing to worry about," he added.

Babar is said to be feeling the pressure since he was forced to step down as captain from all three formats after the World Cup in India.

"The top batsman has concerns about rumours that the selectors and the cricket board wanted to sideline him to try out other players in the coming white-ball games before the T20 World Cup in the West Indies (and USA) next year.

"But the chief selector has assured Babar there is no conspiracy against him and everyone has utmost faith in his abilities," said the insider.

NDTV
 
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Pakistan top players unlike players from India, England or Australia don't want to take rest from any of the matches. I think it is the responsibility of the management to share the workload and provide enough chances to the backup players so they would be ready if any main player gets an injury during a big tournament. I personally like to see Saim opening the batting in all of the matches against New Zealand.
 
Wahab Riaz's speaking in an interview on Pakistan's opening options:

"A backup cannot be ready until the player gets playing time. It's important to assess how players handle international pressure,"

"There is a lot to try out in the upcoming T20I matches and we are discussing with players about which position suits them,"

"It is important to understand the mindset of the management and captain so we can provide them the best possible players,"

"It is good to have six openers in Pakistan because healthy competition is good. I'm a specialist opener but the team management has given me a message to bat as one or two down on the New Zealand tour,”
 
As per the local media:

Saim Ayub and Mohammad Rizwan are set to open for Pakistan in the upcoming T20 series against New Zealand. There was a plan initially to try Saim Ayub and Fakhar Zaman at the top but that strategy was revised later on.

Babar Azam is expected to bat at number 3 while Fakhar Zaman is to bat at the number 4 spot as per the new plan.

There was no complaint or protest from Babar Azam on this shuffling in the batting order.
 
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I think Pakistan should play Fakhar and Saim as T20 openers. Two destructive batters.
 
sweep_shot said:
I think Pakistan should play Fakhar and Saim as T20 openers. Two destructive batters.
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Rizwan will be useless down the order. He should keep opening and the other guy can be changed for Saim and Fakhar.
 
BouncerGuy said:
Rizwan will be useless down the order. He should keep opening and the other guy can be changed for Saim and Fakhar.
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Indeed, Rizwan has been most successful opener for Pak in T20s since Pak's last NZ tour. There was no point demoting him.
 
In 56 innings together as a pair, Mohammad Rizwan and Babar Azam have scored more runs than any other duo in the world. 2708 runs at an average above 50 including nine 100s and eleven 50s.

The next best pair has 1904 runs with a mediocre average of 28.

I think these 2 have been the most successful pair but this series can be a good medium to test your replacements in case 1 one of them fails or gets injured.
 
BouncerGuy said:
In 56 innings together as a pair, Mohammad Rizwan and Babar Azam have scored more runs than any other duo in the world. 2708 runs at an average above 50 including nine 100s and eleven 50s.

The next best pair has 1904 runs with a mediocre average of 28.

I think these 2 have been the most successful pair but this series can be a good medium to test your replacements in case 1 one of them fails or gets injured.
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Even if we compare Fakhar with Rizwan, since there was lot of discussion around Fakhar being promoted back along with Ayub, Rizwan has done incredibly well.

Rizwan:
Innings 73
Avg 49.07
SR 127.3
Sixes 74
Fours 243
50's 25

Fakhar:
Innings 69
Avg 21.7
SR 128.1
Sixes 48
Fours 143
50s 8

Rizwan playing just 6 innings more than Fakhar but has much better Avg, boundary count and almost similar SR.
 
Fakhar Zaman in his pre-game presser ahead of the 1st T20I v NZ

About the combination at the opening:

"In my opinion, this is not a sacrifice; it’s the decision of the management and the captain. If I’m not being considered for the opening, then they are seeing something that suggests I can also win matches for them down the order. You know that this is a national team, and there are thousands of players in line. So, in this situation, I consider myself lucky. If I’m not being considered for the opening spot, and seeing how Babar and Rizwan are playing, how Saim is playing, I consider myself lucky. If I’m not being considered for the opening, they are trying me one down or two down. So, in my opinion, in Pakistan, you can never say that I am sacrificing my slot because this is a national team. I think that even if I’m played on the sixth or seventh number, I will play happily.”

About resting Babar, Rizwan, and himself:

“Absolutely, new players should be given a chance. The first thing is that we have Babar and Rizwan, and they have delivered many outstanding performances. The batting order can be shuffled, but in my opinion, replacing them will not be so easy. However, if any player is rested, then you prepare your backup. The World Cup is coming, and we have 15 to 20 matches. In my opinion, new players should absolutely be given a chance, so that in the World Cup, we don’t have to play a new player directly.”
 
MenInG said:
Fakhar Zaman in his pre-game presser ahead of the 1st T20I v NZ

About the combination at the opening:

"In my opinion, this is not a sacrifice; it’s the decision of the management and the captain. If I’m not being considered for the opening, then they are seeing something that suggests I can also win matches for them down the order. You know that this is a national team, and there are thousands of players in line. So, in this situation, I consider myself lucky. If I’m not being considered for the opening spot, and seeing how Babar and Rizwan are playing, how Saim is playing, I consider myself lucky. If I’m not being considered for the opening, they are trying me one down or two down. So, in my opinion, in Pakistan, you can never say that I am sacrificing my slot because this is a national team. I think that even if I’m played on the sixth or seventh number, I will play happily.”

About resting Babar, Rizwan, and himself:

“Absolutely, new players should be given a chance. The first thing is that we have Babar and Rizwan, and they have delivered many outstanding performances. The batting order can be shuffled, but in my opinion, replacing them will not be so easy. However, if any player is rested, then you prepare your backup. The World Cup is coming, and we have 15 to 20 matches. In my opinion, new players should absolutely be given a chance, so that in the World Cup, we don’t have to play a new player directly.”
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Sensible statement by Fakhar, we should test the bench strength before the World Cup because we can't expect youngsters to directly play in a bigger event and perform. Let's give them confidence by playing them in such series.
 
Pakistan's T20 Captain, Shaheen Shah Afridi during the New Zealand vs Pakistan T20 series pre-game Presser:

"Babar and Rizwan have been and continue to be the best opening pair for Pakistan. We currently have 17 matches before the T20 World Cup, so we will try to see what is our best team combination and which player suits what position. We will try to play all of them so that when we go to England, we know which player has to play at which position. There will be some changes, but we will try to make sure that when we go to England, we know everyone’s role in the team. We should know what is our best playing XI and who should be part of our bench. So, when we go to the T20 World Cup, we know which player will play at which position."​
 
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Fakhar Zaman has the lowest strike rate in the powerplay. Farhan and Saim are topping the list but still Riz babar combo has been consistent without much difference in the strike rates.

Babar needs to work on his 6-hitting ability, he is lacking there.

1704955631836.png
 
BouncerGuy said:
Fakhar Zaman has the lowest strike rate in the powerplay. Farhan and Saim are topping the list but still Riz babar combo has been consistent without much difference in the strike rates.

Babar needs to work on his 6-hitting ability, he is lacking there.

View attachment 141199
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Rizwan’s stats are actually very decent, Babar has been the one letting the team down over the past one year or so.

Makes sense to have Saim open with Rizwan, then have Babar follow them and see what he comes up.

Babar needs to improve his big hitting ability no doubt.
 
The Babar and Rizwan opening pair has come to an end.

This pair had made a name for itself as it allowed the best wicket keeper to adjust in the team and Babar to show his batting class from the word go. This pair was involved in being the only batters to defeat India in a World Cup and have posted the following partnerships:

200 runs partnership = 1
150 runs partnership = 4
100 runs partnership = 4
50+ runs partnership = 20
50 runs partnership = 11

This dou used to get us to 200 runs in a t20 game. The only issue with them was they were not flashy. They didnt play wild cricket in the powerplay or slogged every ball. They played risk free cricket. Why? Because when a batsman like Babar has the ability to play ground shots or when Rizwan has the ability to calculativly play his shots, there is no issue. But since 2010 our fans have only wanted one thing and one thing only, which is sixes and fours. Maybe thats the reason why someone like Imran Nazir is viewed as a good batsman by some of these fans.

Maybe fans confused Babar's confused captaincy on ground with the opening slot.

So long Babar and Rizwan. It was fun while it lasted.

One day we will look back and regret that why we let them go.
 
Major said:
The Babar and Rizwan opening pair has come to an end.

This pair had made a name for itself as it allowed the best wicket keeper to adjust in the team and Babar to show his batting class from the word go. This pair was involved in being the only batters to defeat India in a World Cup and have posted the following partnerships:

200 runs partnership = 1
150 runs partnership = 4
100 runs partnership = 4
50+ runs partnership = 20
50 runs partnership = 11

This dou used to get us to 200 runs in a t20 game. The only issue with them was they were not flashy. They didnt play wild cricket in the powerplay or slogged every ball. They played risk free cricket. Why? Because when a batsman like Babar has the ability to play ground shots or when Rizwan has the ability to calculativly play his shots, there is no issue. But since 2010 our fans have only wanted one thing and one thing only, which is sixes and fours. Maybe thats the reason why someone like Imran Nazir is viewed as a good batsman by some of these fans.

Maybe fans confused Babar's confused captaincy on ground with the opening slot.

So long Babar and Rizwan. It was fun while it lasted.

One day we will look back and regret that why we let them go.
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Imran Nazir was a hack who doesn't have a single memorable t20 knock to his name, nor is he remembered by anyone outside of Pakistan.

To try and compare him to a proper cricketer like Rizwan is beyond madness.

You are correct in the respective styles being the key here. Not everyone understands this game and thus the odd chukka lights up their dopamine receptors more than clever strike rotation and gap manipulation does.

But the stats clearly prove that there is precious little difference between the strike rate that 'hitters' go at and what RizBar do.

Plus RizBar pile on way more runs than anybody else and it's not even close. It really is no contest.

Nonetheless competition and challenge is a good thing. There should be experimentation. RizBar should be put to the test. The cream will generally rise to the top and stay there.
 
Major said:
The Babar and Rizwan opening pair has come to an end.

This pair had made a name for itself as it allowed the best wicket keeper to adjust in the team and Babar to show his batting class from the word go. This pair was involved in being the only batters to defeat India in a World Cup and have posted the following partnerships:

200 runs partnership = 1
150 runs partnership = 4
100 runs partnership = 4
50+ runs partnership = 20
50 runs partnership = 11

This dou used to get us to 200 runs in a t20 game. The only issue with them was they were not flashy. They didnt play wild cricket in the powerplay or slogged every ball. They played risk free cricket. Why? Because when a batsman like Babar has the ability to play ground shots or when Rizwan has the ability to calculativly play his shots, there is no issue. But since 2010 our fans have only wanted one thing and one thing only, which is sixes and fours. Maybe thats the reason why someone like Imran Nazir is viewed as a good batsman by some of these fans.

Maybe fans confused Babar's confused captaincy on ground with the opening slot.

So long Babar and Rizwan. It was fun while it lasted.

One day we will look back and regret that why we let them go.
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Chasing a modest target of 152 on Dubai pitch was never a big deal, but without any doubt it was comprehensive victory by 10 wickets, it was Pakistan's complete performance in bowling, fielding & batting. Unfortunately, both Babar & Rizwan choked in many big tournaments such as 2021 & 2022 T20 WCs, 2022 Asia Cup, 7 T20 series against England at home. If you are playing 10-15 overs in every T20 match including 6 overs of PP, it is your responsibility to go till the end and finish the match instead of getting out in 15th-16th over and leaving RRR of 18-20 for rest of the batting. Rizwan is one of the most hard-working player in the team and he is Pakistan best WK in ODIs & tests but in T20s he needs to change his game. Rizwan was one of the main reason Pak lost 2021 WC SF against Aus & 2022 Asia Cup final against Sri Lanka. Babar does not have any performance against big teams in any major tournament.
 
Ramiz Raja speaking on his YouTube channel:

"So much pressure was created to break the opening pair of Babar and Rizwan. After breaking the opening partnership, it was evaluated based on the strike rate. When you bring in new players, they may perform well in leagues, but international cricket is a different beast where there is pressure, and the focus of the entire world is on you. You broke the opening pair that was famous worldwide. Either you have workshop of trained openers behind you who are gradually being introduced, when you have no other options. It takes time to form an opening pair. It's not an easy task. So, if you have a pair, and they consistently kept you in the field during matches, what benefit did you get after breaking it?"

"The accusation made against me was that I backed Babar Azam on a big scale. I support every captain because their role is not just on the field during the game, but also extends to off the field as well,"​
 
This post is slightly off topic because I think it is time to get over it and move on. Saim needs to be given a long rope and hopefully he will pay back in the Wt20.

I would have the top 4 as Saim Babar Rizwan Fakhar (because Babar will get bogged down more vs spin compared to Rizwan because Rizwan sweeps better, and proper cricket shots get you boundaries in the powerplay)

Babar and Rizwan were a brilliant opening partnership for us, but Saim has utility, and the issue with Babar Rizwan Fakhar as your top 3 leaves us looking quite light after that.

My squad for a WT20 in the WI, is looking like the following 15

The team definately needs to have 12 spin over options, and 12 quick

1 Saim
2 Babar
3 Rizwan
4 Fakhar
5 Ifti (depending on situation)
6 Imad
7 Asif-Floater
8 Shadab- Floater
9 Shaheen
10 Rauf
11 Naseem

12 Your best middle order six hitter in form (Haseebaullah/Haris/Azam)
13 Wasim Junior/Zaman
14 Abrar - we have to have an extra spin option given its the Windies
15 Abbas (really pushing for a first team slot- his slower balls will be even more valuable in WI surfaces

We have major spin issues. Nawaz and Usama have not looked the part. Shadab isnt the best but he is good for some slogging and a GUN fielder.

Having Shadab Imad and Ifti as batting spinners, has two benefits. 1 it pushes Shaheen down to number 9 which is where he belongs, and Asif is just a wild card there to hit a couple of 6s from ball one. We don't need nor expect him to make 40s and 50s, 23 off 8 is the kind of thing I am looking for from him- and he was good for that.

I don't know the status of Imad but he brings 2 things to the team that other people don't. He is good to bowl in the powerplay which we need to STOP RAUF FROM DOING! He is also a left hand batter so its always good to have a right/left combo. He is the best six hitter out of our spin bowling options with Shadab (better than Nawaz and Usama)

I think the above team is the strongest we can go with given our current situation and spin issues.
 
BouncerGuy said:
Ramiz Raja speaking on his YouTube channel:

"So much pressure was created to break the opening pair of Babar and Rizwan. After breaking the opening partnership, it was evaluated based on the strike rate. When you bring in new players, they may perform well in leagues, but international cricket is a different beast where there is pressure, and the focus of the entire world is on you. You broke the opening pair that was famous worldwide. Either you have workshop of trained openers behind you who are gradually being introduced, when you have no other options. It takes time to form an opening pair. It's not an easy task. So, if you have a pair, and they consistently kept you in the field during matches, what benefit did you get after breaking it?"

"The accusation made against me was that I backed Babar Azam on a big scale. I support every captain because their role is not just on the field during the game, but also extends to off the field as well,"​
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Ramiz is being hypocritical. I remember him complaining during one the series that pakistan wasnt playing modern cricket with low strike rates etc.

The change of Saim opening is a positive one for the team as we can take advantage of the PP.

Most supporters would like to see Saim and Fakhar to open and i agree.

There might be a case to bring in the likes of Sharjeel and Umar akmal to fill roles or Nafy and up and coming player.
 
Abdullah said:
This post is slightly off topic because I think it is time to get over it and move on. Saim needs to be given a long rope and hopefully he will pay back in the Wt20.

I would have the top 4 as Saim Babar Rizwan Fakhar (because Babar will get bogged down more vs spin compared to Rizwan because Rizwan sweeps better, and proper cricket shots get you boundaries in the powerplay)

Babar and Rizwan were a brilliant opening partnership for us, but Saim has utility, and the issue with Babar Rizwan Fakhar as your top 3 leaves us looking quite light after that.

My squad for a WT20 in the WI, is looking like the following 15

The team definately needs to have 12 spin over options, and 12 quick

1 Saim
2 Babar
3 Rizwan
4 Fakhar
5 Ifti (depending on situation)
6 Imad
7 Asif-Floater
8 Shadab- Floater
9 Shaheen
10 Rauf
11 Naseem

12 Your best middle order six hitter in form (Haseebaullah/Haris/Azam)
13 Wasim Junior/Zaman
14 Abrar - we have to have an extra spin option given its the Windies
15 Abbas (really pushing for a first team slot- his slower balls will be even more valuable in WI surfaces

We have major spin issues. Nawaz and Usama have not looked the part. Shadab isnt the best but he is good for some slogging and a GUN fielder.

Having Shadab Imad and Ifti as batting spinners, has two benefits. 1 it pushes Shaheen down to number 9 which is where he belongs, and Asif is just a wild card there to hit a couple of 6s from ball one. We don't need nor expect him to make 40s and 50s, 23 off 8 is the kind of thing I am looking for from him- and he was good for that.

I don't know the status of Imad but he brings 2 things to the team that other people don't. He is good to bowl in the powerplay which we need to STOP RAUF FROM DOING! He is also a left hand batter so its always good to have a right/left combo. He is the best six hitter out of our spin bowling options with Shadab (better than Nawaz and Usama)

I think the above team is the strongest we can go with given our current situation and spin issues.
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Imad has retired bro.
 
Abdullah said:
This post is slightly off topic because I think it is time to get over it and move on. Saim needs to be given a long rope and hopefully he will pay back in the Wt20.

I would have the top 4 as Saim Babar Rizwan Fakhar (because Babar will get bogged down more vs spin compared to Rizwan because Rizwan sweeps better, and proper cricket shots get you boundaries in the powerplay)

Babar and Rizwan were a brilliant opening partnership for us, but Saim has utility, and the issue with Babar Rizwan Fakhar as your top 3 leaves us looking quite light after that.

My squad for a WT20 in the WI, is looking like the following 15

The team definately needs to have 12 spin over options, and 12 quick

1 Saim
2 Babar
3 Rizwan
4 Fakhar
5 Ifti (depending on situation)
6 Imad
7 Asif-Floater
8 Shadab- Floater
9 Shaheen
10 Rauf
11 Naseem

12 Your best middle order six hitter in form (Haseebaullah/Haris/Azam)
13 Wasim Junior/Zaman
14 Abrar - we have to have an extra spin option given its the Windies
15 Abbas (really pushing for a first team slot- his slower balls will be even more valuable in WI surfaces

We have major spin issues. Nawaz and Usama have not looked the part. Shadab isnt the best but he is good for some slogging and a GUN fielder.

Having Shadab Imad and Ifti as batting spinners, has two benefits. 1 it pushes Shaheen down to number 9 which is where he belongs, and Asif is just a wild card there to hit a couple of 6s from ball one. We don't need nor expect him to make 40s and 50s, 23 off 8 is the kind of thing I am looking for from him- and he was good for that.

I don't know the status of Imad but he brings 2 things to the team that other people don't. He is good to bowl in the powerplay which we need to STOP RAUF FROM DOING! He is also a left hand batter so its always good to have a right/left combo. He is the best six hitter out of our spin bowling options with Shadab (better than Nawaz and Usama)

I think the above team is the strongest we can go with given our current situation and spin issues.
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I would go the same top 4 of Saim, Riz, Babar and Fakhar plus Salman Ali and umar akmal , Shadab, Jamal, Shaheen, Naseem, and one of Ihsanullah, Zaman or Was jr.

Ive heard Rauf wants to retire from internationals.
 
Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH said:
I would go the same top 4 of Saim, Riz, Babar and Fakhar plus Salman Ali and umar akmal , Shadab, Jamal, Shaheen, Naseem, and one of Ihsanullah, Zaman or Was jr.

Ive heard Rauf wants to retire from internationals.
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Rauf can retire after the World Cup. Next ODI WC is far away.
We need more spin options in the Windies than just 8 overs.
I like Salman Ali agha but not sure if his bowling is good enough to be in the first 5 main bowlers. He seems like a 6th bowling option like ifti (so Id like 8 overs of spin option before him to supplement the spin attack)
 
Abdullah said:
Rauf can retire after the World Cup. Next ODI WC is far away.
We need more spin options in the Windies than just 8 overs.
I like Salman Ali agha but not sure if his bowling is good enough to be in the first 5 main bowlers. He seems like a 6th bowling option like ifti (so Id like 8 overs of spin option before him to supplement the spin attack)
Click to expand...

Agreed that Salman needs a go in the Ifti role. Right now Ifti isn’t doing anything and we can’t hold onto him on the basis that he “might” start performing.

The guy is at least 43 years old. Don’t waste any time giving Agha opportunities imo
 
Abdullah said:
Rauf can retire after the World Cup. Next ODI WC is far away.
We need more spin options in the Windies than just 8 overs.
I like Salman Ali agha but not sure if his bowling is good enough to be in the first 5 main bowlers. He seems like a 6th bowling option like ifti (so Id like 8 overs of spin option before him to supplement the spin attack)
Click to expand...
We need to play our best attack whether pace or spin.

we cant play a spinner for the sake of playing one.

Thats why I went for Shaheen, Naseem, Ihsanullah, Shadab, Jamal, plus Salman as a 6th option.

Zaman, Was jr are good options with Rauf as mentioned earlier looking to retire from Internationals.

zeeshan zameer , Muhammad Amir Khan and Arshad Iqbal are good prospects plus that left arm kid from the under 19s.
 
Rana said:
What I say is logical. If Rizwan opens, he is poor. If he doesn’t, he won’t belong in the XI because there are better keeper/batsmen than him who are better T20 players.

So your logic of Fakhar at 4 is still nonsense whereas mines is correct.
Click to expand...
Which proven PK keeper batter is better than Riz right now?.
 
shamaan said:
Haris isnt proven yet but hes proberly makes the xi if or when they want to rest/injuries.
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I agree haris is a talent and could be brought in at 5 or 6 but the truth is Riz is the only proven all format keeper batter we currently have.

Sarfraz is a good option in asian conditions in tests.
 
hitthestump said:
Imran Nazir was a hack who doesn't have a single memorable t20 knock to his name, nor is he remembered by anyone outside of Pakistan.

To try and compare him to a proper cricketer like Rizwan is beyond madness.

You are correct in the respective styles being the key here. Not everyone understands this game and thus the odd chukka lights up their dopamine receptors more than clever strike rotation and gap manipulation does.

But the stats clearly prove that there is precious little difference between the strike rate that 'hitters' go at and what RizBar do.

Plus RizBar pile on way more runs than anybody else and it's not even close. It really is no contest.

Nonetheless competition and challenge is a good thing. There should be experimentation. RizBar should be put to the test. The cream will generally rise to the top and stay there.
Click to expand...
T20 was in its inception when Imran Nazir played no team knew how to go about things so talking about it like it was around for 20 years is doing un injustice to Imran.

He was a serious talent, enjoyable to watch and a brilliant fielder.

He was no hack. That is totally disrespectful.
 
Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH said:
T20 was in its inception when Imran Nazir played no team knew how to go about things so talking about it like it was around for 20 years is doing un injustice to Imran.

He was a serious talent, enjoyable to watch and a brilliant fielder.

He was no hack. That is totally disrespectful.
Click to expand...

Imran Nazir was a serious talent and a excellent fielder. At times he would produce signs of absolute brilliance especially when pulling the ball.

But overall he was a lazy hack who never applied himself at the crease.

His stats present him as an extremely mediocre batsman. You may even wonder how he played for Pakistan as many times as he did.

While he was a bit more capable than his stats suggest, he still ended up with precious few memorable white ball innings to his name.
 
Cricket Warrior said:
We can find better keepers but we couldn't find a better wicketkeeper batsman than him so Rizwan will always remain a first priority.
Click to expand...
It’s the other way round

Rizwan is a good keeper. You will find plenty of better batsmen than him.
 
hitthestump said:
Imran Nazir was a serious talent and a excellent fielder. At times he would produce signs of absolute brilliance especially when pulling the ball.

But overall he was a lazy hack who never applied himself at the crease.

His stats present him as an extremely mediocre batsman. You may even wonder how he played for Pakistan as many times as he did.

While he was a bit more capable than his stats suggest, he still ended up with precious few memorable white ball innings to his name.
Click to expand...
Imran Nazir was the absolute best batsman to watch when he was firing for Pakistan, was scintilatting
 
Rana said:
It’s the other way round

Rizwan is a good keeper. You will find plenty of better batsmen than him.
Click to expand...
For now, I am pretty happy that you have accepted him as a good keeper but I am sure one day i will convince u that he is an excellent batsman too 😁
 
Pakistan was playing the format the right way, suited to the XI. Get the best two on top to give you a 50/0 + start most time at 8rpo and some stability. And then get all the tullas to blast in the hope of reaching competitive totals.

There is no batter in the whole of Pakistan who can play at SR of 150+ but also give 30 runs on average. So what's the point of clinging to this false narrative?

You need to do what's best for you with the limitations you have.
 
Right now, Rizwan is your best as keeper-batter, whether you want him as an opener is moot but he does show once in a while that he is fit for that role.

You bring him towards the end of the innings and he seems to get into achor mode.
 
Cricket Warrior said:
We can find better keepers but we couldn't find a better wicketkeeper batsman than him so Rizwan will always remain a first priority.
Click to expand...
Riz is currently the best keeper batter
Rana said:
Someone who won’t eat up half the deliveries and make a below par score? Let me think…

Mohammad Harris for one.

Debate over.
Click to expand...
Your saying Haris is proven is laughable.

Think harder.
 
Rizwan and Babar are consistent but they can't strike very high.

The rest of youngsters can strike high, but they aren't consistent. At least in their early career. Maybe we need to give them more time.
 
The experiment is over.

We need our best batsmen to play the most overs.

Babar and Rizwan opening partnership is the only thing that makes sense. Fakhar can't do it, Saim can't do it.

We can't even win a single damn t20 unless Babar and Rizwan open.
 
You can't eat up 10 overs in T20 and not put a winning score for your team.

Rest is all hogwash.

I am not here to see Rizwan circus or theater show.

If you bat 10 plus overs and you team doesn't even touch 160, you can kindly keep your hideous performance for your ignorant fans.
 
RidiculousMan said:
Rizwan and Babar are consistent but they can't strike very high.

The rest of youngsters can strike high, but they aren't consistent. At least in their early career. Maybe we need to give them more time.
Click to expand...

The youngsters can't even strike high.

None of them have SR's that much higher than Babar or Rizwan. But their ability to last more than 15 balls is close to zero.

If they were consistently getting you 20 (10) type scores that would be fine.

But the Azam's, Asif's, Saim's etc aren't outputting even that.
 
hitthestump said:
The experiment is over.

We need our best batsmen to play the most overs.

Babar and Rizwan opening partnership is the only thing that makes sense. Fakhar can't do it, Saim can't do it.

We can't even win a single damn t20 unless Babar and Rizwan open.
Click to expand...

Correction.

We can't even win a single T20 unless Rizwan and Babar open against Namibia, Uganda, PNG, 3rd string England or 4th string NZ Or some version of their sides.

We can definitely pad though.

To a match losing total.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
Correction.

We can't even win a single T20 unless Rizwan and Babar open against Namibia, Uganda, PNG, 3rd string England or 4th string NZ Or some version of their sides.

We can definitely pad though.

To a match losing total.
Click to expand...
Ayub Haris & co would struggle to get bat on ball v Uganda
 
Dr_Bassim said:
You can't eat up 10 overs in T20 and not put a winning score for your team.

Rest is all hogwash.

I am not here to see Rizwan circus or theater show.

If you bat 10 plus overs and you team doesn't even touch 160, you can kindly keep your hideous performance for your ignorant fans.
Click to expand...
You might be better off checking Babar and Rizwan's overall stats this series (including SR) and comparing to the rest of the batsmen. Will open your eyes to the fact that our country does not have the talent to achieve what you and so many others want.

Beggars can never be choosers. What we see here is the perfect example of when beggars get out of line.

Babar won a tri-series in New Zealand against a stronger NZ side 18 months ago with the same set of players but a different combination. Doesn't take much to figure out why we are losing here.
 
Well one thing this series has proven or should clarify actually is that Rizwan most certainly is the most useless T20 opener in world cricket
 
Dr_Bassim said:
You can't eat up 10 overs in T20 and not put a winning score for your team.

Rest is all hogwash.

I am not here to see Rizwan circus or theater show.

If you bat 10 plus overs and you team doesn't even touch 160, you can kindly keep your hideous performance for your ignorant fans.
Click to expand...
He scored an unbeaten 90 of 63 balls out of 158 more than half the score and some how riz is responsible

What do think the other players with bats in their hands are suppose to do.

score nothing?.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Guys who have played less than 10 games being compared to guys that have played non-stop for 4 years

That’s what we have resorted to.
 
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