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"I should also be criticised after Pakistan’s batting failures in New Zealand" : Younis Khan

My view is that people are found two extremes when it comes to Younis.

They either overrate him or underrate him. The people who tend to overrate him have a soft corner for him because of all the personally tragedies that he has been through, and also because he never had the star power that someone of his performances deserved.

They also overrate him because the mediocrity around him post 2010 made him look better than he was, and they have seemingly forgotten that when Inzamam and Yousuf were around, he was basically third fiddle.

The people who underrate him are the ones who are too young to remember the 2000s, and they don’t remember his good performances outside Asia before 2016 and also his success in ODI cricket in the 2000s.

Younis is polarizing figure and his own personality and antics at different stages of his career have not helped matters either. He has been a controversy magnet since 2007 when he backed out of captaincy at the last minute and kickstarted a period of chaos and instability that last until Misbah’s appointment as ODI captain in May 2011.

Pretty much this. Agree/disagree with parts of the earlier one which I quoted when citing redundancy of the thread, but the margins are too narrow to knit-pick impact or lack thereof in individual innings. And frankly, too much time has elapsed with the discussion being more or less moot.

In regards to this post, I do not blame younger posters on PP for ill-informed comparisons based on just the last decade or similar for other players. It gets annoying when people thump their opinions with verve and conviction which may put the most astute observers to shame, despite their not having watched the games. Highlights only go a limited way with cricket.

Younus will remain a polarising figure due to his hasty press conferences, playing in the shadow of far more gifted albeit sometimes indifferent contemporaries in the shape of Yousuf/Inzamam, a short run and an unceremonious end to his captaincy with Oathgate, his disciplinarian and authoritarian attitude which often led to his temper getting the better of him and a deep seated cynicism for the system which he never failed to voice.

The other thing I miss about him was his being mentally present on the field. In terms of tactical changes and observations often with a short turnaround. But in most instances these are very difficult to pinpoint and isolate apart from the most obvious of cases.
 
Younis has always been an average player of fast bowling.

He could not nail his place in the Test side from 2000 to 2005 because he repeatedly struggling against quality fast bowling.

He was a walking wicket against Ambrose and Walsh in the Caribbean in 2000.

He badly failed in South Africa in 2002 where he couldn’t handle the movement of Pollock and the steep bounce of Ntini.

<B>He did well in Australia in 2004-05 but was overshadowed by Yousuf and Butt who played better innings than him</B>.

Same was the case in England in 2006 and South Africa in 2006-07.

People talk about his unbeaten half-century in the Port Elizabeth chase in the second Test, but Inzamam’s 92 not out in the first innings was a far better innings and the only reason Pakistan had a chance of chasing the target.

Without Inzamam, Pakistan would have bundled for less than 150 in the first innings. He added 70-80 runs with the tail.

Even in that run chase, Kamran was the one who swung the momentum in Pakistan’s favor and deflated South African bowling with his aggressive stroke-play.

Yousuf’s counter-attacking 80 odd in the third Test was also a better innings. Pakistan lost the match comfortably but without Younis, they wouldn’t even have scored 100 in the first innings.

Younis played some good knocks outside Asia in the 2000s but there was always someone else doing better than him. He never stepped out of the shadow of Inzamam and Yousuf because he was never better than him.

He only established himself as Pakistan’s premier batsman when Inzamam retired and Yousuf fell out of favor with PCB.

It wasn’t hard for Younis to stand out in the UAE era when Pakistan’s other main batsmen were Misbah, Azhar and Shafiq. He was of course several notches above them.

In ODI cricket he was good in the 2000s when he played in the lower-order. He also had a great purple patch at number 3 in 2007-08, but he was badly exposed in the 2010s when the scoring rates went up due to two new ball rules also more inventive batting because of the T20 era.

Younis was never a complete, all-round batsmen. He did not have that class. However, he was tremendous against spin and had great powers of concentration. Whenever he survived the first 50-60 balls, he made it count and almost always managed to score big.

Among the middle-order batsmen, he was certainly not as good as Miandad, Inzamam and Yousuf, and although it might be too early for some to call it, but I believe Babar is also a better batsman than him in Test cricket as well.

Younis was leading run-scorer for Pakistan in that series batting at 3 facing the new bowl while Moyo played 1 great knock and went for sleep for rest of the series.

I also recall him dominating a couple of series between 2005-07 against India. He did overshadowed Inzy and Yousuf there even though he was junior to them.

I would say based on what he has achieved over 16-17 years till about 2017, he has probably surpassed both Moyo and Inzy as test batsman. In 2007, he was relatively younger and inexperienced compared to Yousuf and ofcourse Inzy. So, comparing them till 2007 is unfair.
 
Feel like the divide between how YK views selections and what he’s being given to work with is getting obvious now. None of this was not known beforehand I guess, he has emphasised domestic and FC as the places to mould players.

Don’t know what his take on Abdullah Shafique et cetera being selected will be. Still do not think YK is the man for this role. Best for him to work with mouldable, budding talent with a free remit. Gives him (and us) the best chance to see if can walk the talk or not.
 
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He's spot on about rushing players into international cricket when they are clearly not ready.

Pakistani selectors have this habit of either selecting players in a hurry or picking them when they are past their best.

There seems to be no middle ground.
 
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Younis has always been an average player of fast bowling.

He could not nail his place in the Test side from 2000 to 2005 because he repeatedly struggling against quality fast bowling.

He was a walking wicket against Ambrose and Walsh in the Caribbean in 2000.

He badly failed in South Africa in 2002 where he couldn’t handle the movement of Pollock and the steep bounce of Ntini.

He did well in Australia in 2004-05 but was overshadowed by Yousuf and Butt who played better innings than him.

Same was the case in England in 2006 and South Africa in 2006-07.

People talk about his unbeaten half-century in the Port Elizabeth chase in the second Test, but Inzamam’s 92 not out in the first innings was a far better innings and the only reason Pakistan had a chance of chasing the target.

Without Inzamam, Pakistan would have bundled for less than 150 in the first innings. He added 70-80 runs with the tail.

Even in that run chase, Kamran was the one who swung the momentum in Pakistan’s favor and deflated South African bowling with his aggressive stroke-play.

Yousuf’s counter-attacking 80 odd in the third Test was also a better innings. Pakistan lost the match comfortably but without Younis, they wouldn’t even have scored 100 in the first innings.

Younis played some good knocks outside Asia in the 2000s but there was always someone else doing better than him. He never stepped out of the shadow of Inzamam and Yousuf because he was never better than him.

He only established himself as Pakistan’s premier batsman when Inzamam retired and Yousuf fell out of favor with PCB.

It wasn’t hard for Younis to stand out in the UAE era when Pakistan’s other main batsmen were Misbah, Azhar and Shafiq. He was of course several notches above them.

In ODI cricket he was good in the 2000s when he played in the lower-order. He also had a great purple patch at number 3 in 2007-08, but he was badly exposed in the 2010s when the scoring rates went up due to two new ball rules also more inventive batting because of the T20 era.

Younis was never a complete, all-round batsmen. He did not have that class. However, he was tremendous against spin and had great powers of concentration. Whenever he survived the first 50-60 balls, he made it count and almost always managed to score big.

Among the middle-order batsmen, he was certainly not as good as Miandad, Inzamam and Yousuf, and although it might be too early for some to call it, but I believe Babar is also a better batsman than him in Test cricket as well.

I didn’t get to see much of him when he played with Yousuf and Inzamam. Would you say he played spin better than those two?
 
He's spot on about rushing players into international cricket when they are clearly not ready.

Pakistani selectors have this habit of either selecting players in a hurry or picking them when they are past their best.

There seems to be no middle ground.


Indeed. And in this squad alone we have managed to touch those extremes again, in both, batting and bowling.
 
I didn’t get to see much of him when he played with Yousuf and Inzamam. Would you say he played spin better than those two?

As a player of spin he was better than both. He was also more gritty and would have easily ended up as Pakistan’s greatest batsman by a massive margin if he had the natural talent of those two.

Against pace, he was several notches below both.
 
He's spot on about rushing players into international cricket when they are clearly not ready.

Pakistani selectors have this habit of either selecting players in a hurry or picking them when they are past their best.

There seems to be no middle ground.

Tabish-Abdullah Shafiq-
Fit the description
 
Younis is arguably along with Virender Sehwag and Andrew Flower, one of the best players of spin bowling I've seen over the last 30 years.

I was too young to see Miandad at his peak, but he would have had to be some player if he was superior to Younis against spin.
 
I really doubt how much any batting coach can do at an international stage.
 
Tabish-Abdullah Shafiq-
Fit the description

And they don't seem to learn from the errors of the previous selection committees either. So many players are picked when over the hill and others brought into international cricket based on a good psl or other single tournament.
 
Younis has many friends in the media. He will not be criticized the same way as Misbah and Waqar.
 
Younis has many friends in the media. He will not be criticized the same way as Misbah and Waqar.

This is very true. Quite a few of the Karachi media won't speak ill of him.

He looks after the media and they look after him. The old I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine scenario in Pakistan cricket.
 
Should be asked hard questions. No improvement in abid ali,imran butt and also why babar struggle against maharaj was not rectify ?
 
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] that polarizing figure is what lead us to perform bad in Odis especially World Cups.

I remember in 2011 that when i saw his bad odi record i would mention that he shouldn't be in the odi team especailly the fact that we werent considering malik also.

People would go crazy

But than Younis showed no good eprofmrance in odi. He threw a fit when he figured that he wont be going with the world cup squad, only got selected due to the media backing. Once in AUstralia, the guy did jack.

Today he sits in these press conferences and make idiotic statement, would he ever make such a statement as a player? Would he ever say as a player that he sucked and was responsible for the poor world cup performance in 2015?
 
Should be asked hard questions. No improvement in abid ali,imran butt and also why babar struggle against maharaj was not rectify ?

The knives are being sharpened I reckon.

But I'm sure his mates in the media will prefer to blame others.
 
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The knives are being sharpened I reckon.

But I'm sure his mates in the media will prefer to blame others.

Doubt there’s anywhere for him to hide. The way things are going, he will very soon be joining the list of failed ‘super’ coaches. Runs by the tail do not compensate failures of the top order.

Also, the KHI angle doesn’t quite work with Zaheer, Younus, Afridi, Akram or Fawad and similar. They moved to KHI from other parts of PAK and are ethnically Pashtoon/Punjabi or other.

The primary divide touted by MQM was of ‘muhajirs’ who immigrated from parts of IND at or around partition.
 
Should be asked hard questions. No improvement in abid ali,imran butt and also why babar struggle against maharaj was not rectify ?

Its clear that he does not like playing left arm spin but i do not understand why he isnt playing the sweep shot or atleast attempting it
 
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] that polarizing figure is what lead us to perform bad in Odis especially World Cups.

I remember in 2011 that when i saw his bad odi record i would mention that he shouldn't be in the odi team especailly the fact that we werent considering malik also.

People would go crazy

But than Younis showed no good eprofmrance in odi. He threw a fit when he figured that he wont be going with the world cup squad, only got selected due to the media backing. Once in AUstralia, the guy did jack.

Today he sits in these press conferences and make idiotic statement, would he ever make such a statement as a player? Would he ever say as a player that he sucked and was responsible for the poor world cup performance in 2015?

Lol, bringing his odi record and all else just to discredit him and save your idol.
Well, atleast that 100 column doesn't say 'zero' unlike a certain someone.
Infact he has multiple 100's to his credit, and has won memorable odi matches for us pre 2011.

Anyway, how bad does one have to be, to play so many matches, yet never score a ton. Pathetic excuse of an odi player was the man in your DP.
 
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Doubt there’s anywhere for him to hide. The way things are going, he will very soon be joining the list of failed ‘super’ coaches. Runs by the tail do not compensate failures of the top order.

Also, the KHI angle doesn’t quite work with Zaheer, Younus, Afridi, Akram or Fawad and similar. They moved to KHI from other parts of PAK and are ethnically Pashtoon/Punjabi or other.

The primary divide touted by MQM was of ‘muhajirs’ who immigrated from parts of IND at or around partition.

na he does have a media fan base. Remember, he only played 2015 world cup due to the media pressure.

What the journalists write and what the analysist say on tv really matter.
Rashid Khan, Akhtar these guys won't say jack about Younis, and there comments do have an affect.

Remember that guy woodward or something. He was hired i think for the Champions trophy 2012 or 13(damn my memory). Basit Ali and many people critisized that batting consultant soo much that PCB did not renew their contract with that guy.
 
Its clear that he does not like playing left arm spin but i do not understand why he isnt playing the sweep shot or atleast attempting it

Babar isnt a natural sweeper of the ball. Sweeping when you are not natural with it makes it an extremely risky and low percentage option. He can develop it, but that is for the long term.

Since he is having trouble technically, what he could have done mid-series was change tactics; use his feet more and manoeuvre the length of the ball.

That would have thrown Maharaj off his plan. Instead he sat in and played to Maharaj's strength and his own weakness.
 
I guess with the Yousuf factor out there now regarding Faheem Ashraf, that probably increases the scrutiny on Younis Khan and the work he is doing.

But to be fair to Younis, with guys like Abid Ali playing for so long, Younis can't work miracles with them.
 
Younis cannot impart much to Babar when it comes to playing spin because like Root, he was an phenomenal sweeper.

The sweep shot comes naturally. You either have it or you don’t. You can improve with practice but it is not really an acquired skill; it has more to do with intuition.

Babar needs to learn from Sangakkara and Kohli, two incredible players of spin but both were (are) not natural sweepers and it is not a shot that they feel comfortable with.

They were extremely good at picking variations from the release point. Sangakkara acquired that skill by keeping to Muralitharan for years.

Kohli is brilliant at it as well. It was the major reason why he was so dominant against peak Ajmal. He picked his doosra from his hand and played him like a leg-spinner.

Babar trying to play off the pitch and when the spinner drops it short, he can adjust quickly and capitalize because he has very quick reflexes and great ball sense, but when it is full, he is in trouble because he plants his front-leg early and his bat gets stuck behind.
 
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Look at the difference between Babar and Root.

Babar commits on the front-foot way too early and you can only do if you are going to sweep the ball. If you are playing forward-defense and commit so early, you will be in trouble because you will end up playing the line or playing for turn.

If the ball spins or holds its line when you don’t expect it to, you will be a prime LBW candidate because you will get stuck.
 
Very good post above me and I noticed that Babar told Ramiz Raja that his trigger movement against spinners is to commit on the front foot because he has more time to play against them.

So basically when Maharaj bowls a few slower deliveries then darts one in, Babar gets stuck.

It is excellent bowling and Bobs will learn from this inshaAllah.
 
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Babar is having the same problems that Kevin Pietersen had against left-arm spin around 2010-11. His head is falling over because he is trying to play around his pads. He can do worse than follow Rahul Dravid's advice to Pietersen of practicing relentlessly in the nets against spin with no pads on.
 
I guess with the Yousuf factor out there now regarding Faheem Ashraf, that probably increases the scrutiny on Younis Khan and the work he is doing.

But to be fair to Younis, with guys like Abid Ali playing for so long, Younis can't work miracles with them.

Not just that, Azhar’s dismissals in the 1st and 2nd innings were about his age old problem of balance returning. Something that he appeared to have improved against pace from the 3rd Test against ENG. If YK gets any praise for that improvement he should get flak for Azhar’s dismissals too, if this becomes a pattern again.

YK said he wanted to continuity in players. But if that means Abid/Imran continuing, he then has no excuses for their continued failures. He cannot have it both ways by saying that people he was working with were dropped and he has to start afresh.

In fairness, arguably the only thing going in his favour is that his involvement has mostly been about tours. The best place to iron out these things for any batsman is in the nets/NCA during the off-season.

The additional bit of resolve our tailenders/specialist bowlers started putting up in ENG/NZD won’t really count for much, at least not in my book.
 
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Look at the difference between Babar and Root.

Babar commits on the front-foot way too early and you can only do if you are going to sweep the ball. If you are playing forward-defense and commit so early, you will be in trouble because you will end up playing the line or playing for turn.

If the ball spins or holds its line when you don’t expect it to, you will be a prime LBW candidate because you will get stuck.

Babar’s first instinct gets him into trouble because he has no read on the wrist/hand. He looks like run-of-the-mill SENA players when they tour Asia, plant their leg and hope for the best.

Don’t think YK is the guy to solve the sweep problem though. YK’s reach/elasticity made him successful against spin but you cannot coach that.

For that matter, YK’s technique is not one I would recommend many to learn from anyway. Not even my children.

This is one for the off-season and short of going through footage/looking at varieties out of the hand/batting against all domestic and PSL flash boys, there isn’t much he can do during the tour.

Once he is confident in reading it out of the hand, he may be able to fashion an alternate approach and could even continue without the sweep for some time.

I doubt he has the conviction to go for the sweep given he’s reading blanks.
 
YK must be looking at the likes of Imran Butt and Abid Ali and thinking, sorry I can't do much with these guys.

With the likes of Babar, it's a minor tweak and that can be sorted.
 
na he does have a media fan base. Remember, he only played 2015 world cup due to the media pressure.

What the journalists write and what the analysist say on tv really matter.
Rashid Khan, Akhtar these guys won't say jack about Younis, and there comments do have an affect.

Remember that guy woodward or something. He was hired i think for the Champions trophy 2012 or 13(damn my memory). Basit Ali and many people critisized that batting consultant soo much that PCB did not renew their contract with that guy.

He played the 2015 CWC because PAK as nation and cricketing nation had shown considerably stunted growth in fashioning stroke players from advent-UAE. The few stroke players we had got, we had deemed to risky and were unable to find the correct balance. This meant squeezing/hiding YK in various positions during the tournament.

In terms of backing, the media picked up on an interview of Rahul Dravid on Cricinfo in which he said something like “if PAK are not including YK, their batting must be very strong”.

The guys you are quoting are not saying jack about YK today. Until a few months ago, Mohammad Wasim used to sit with them and was all chummy. Now when he announced his squad, they gave scathing reviews.

I would not set much store by media/TRPs in PAK. Back in the day it was petty newspaper columns, and in this day we have got PAK’s leading intellectuals in the form of Shoaib, Tanvir and co. doling out advice, wholesale rate. Media is ‘fickle’ friend for good and bad.

The only language that is universal is that of performance. As player, it is your own. As a coach, it is your wards’. A failure in one has little to nothing to do with the other.

And no, despite being an ethnic muhajir from KHI, I do not subscribe to ethnic divides. Not when I had Imran captaining. And not now either.
 
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