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If the ball starts swinging during the World Cup....

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ateefali

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So mostly everyone agrees on here that IND and ENG are favorites for semis. Now,say the the ball continues to swing because of early summer games, who becomes favorites for semis?? Looking at pace bowling attack ( Aus,NZ,Saf ) me thinks india will drop early games to couple of those teams and end up being 4th.

Eng
Aus
Nz
IND

are my picks. What do you guys think ?
 
Australia was in absolute doldrums in 2 one dayers in 2003 world cup but their no.10 batsman rescued them and they won both the matches. Good teams recover from it.
 
ateefali said:
So mostly everyone agrees on here that IND and ENG are favorites for semis. Now,say the the ball continues to swing because of early summer games, who becomes favorites for semis?? Looking at pace bowling attack ( Aus,NZ,Saf ) me thinks india will drop early games to couple of those teams and end up being 4th.

Eng
Aus
Nz
IND

are my picks. What do you guys think ?
Click to expand...

If the ball swings or spins or seams it will be the same teams that you listed above that will top with Eng and Ind on top. The players in other teams are worse.
 
India has the best fast bowler in the world (Bumrah), and even Bhuvi becomes very dangerous when the ball is swinging.

England and India would still be the top 2 teams.
 
Don't worry. Ball swings even on flat decks when our team is batting.
 
There won't be that much swing . Don't know what people are talking about. Last time world cup in England started a fortnight earlier and it was played with a dukes ball and swing almost vanished towards the latter half of the tournament. Not sure why people are expecting swing nowadays . Do you guys even watch odi cricket in England?
 
Yes there wont be, infact spin will be a very important factor in the WC, the reason i rate india fav's is not coz of kohli or bumrah but because of 3 class spinners.
 
ali2220 said:
Yes there wont be, infact spin will be a very important factor in the WC, the reason i rate india fav's is not coz of kohli or bumrah but because of 3 class spinners.
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Kohli and Bumrah are deadly, no doubt. But yadav, that guy is also wicket taker. And more lethal than bumrah in terms of wickets. Also, Chahal & other i forgot, really tightens the noose when bowling in middle overs, as Yadav pick up wickets
 
Regardless of whether the ball is swinging or not . .
India and England are way ahead of any other team so you'd expect them to be top 2 . .

In fact, with India's spin variety, this is India's world cup . .

I think NZ looks decent too . . in Guptill, Williamson and Taylor . . they will hardly completely fail with the bat . . in Boult, Southe, Ferguson, hency and co, they aso have a good bowling line up . .

For the remaining spot, I actually give 4 teams an equal chance . . Aus, SA, Pak, WI

For WI . . I think in Hope, Hetmeyer, return of darren bravo . . holder, roach, gabriel, alzarri .. WI has a strong and fast developing core group of players . . they have a chacne to spring a surprise or 2 . .

Bang batting looks okay . . but on those pitches, I don't think Bang bowling can lead them to a semi final
SL . . well, batting and bowling is dope-y . .

So for me:

India and England are ahead of the pack
NZ i think is slightly better than the remaining
and 4 teams stand an equal chance for the 4th spot . . depends on how form, confidence and pitches play out
 
You think the likes of Fakhar,Malik ,and Hafeez will last against the moving ball ? :))
 
It won't. People seem to have a vision of English one day cricket being played in conditions circa Headingley 1982.

The pitches nowadays are dead flat and the white Kookaburra does squat.
 
World Cup 19 is starting at almost the same time as Champions Trophy 17, while the swing wasnt a lot with new ball but reverse swing definitely came in play for middle and late overs of the innings.
 
When the balls start swinging, that's when Hafeez and Malik and Zaman will show how it's done.
 
No batting line up is good enough to tackle the Swing these days. So, we might see low scoring thrillers , but the favourites will still remain the same.
 
AMSS said:
When the balls start swinging, that's when Hafeez and Malik and Zaman will show how it's done.
Click to expand...

you should not be worried about pakistan they are least favorites for worldcup.Worry for india Apart from kohli rohit and dhawan have shown in past who well they can play tiniest of swing
 
saeed5646 said:
who said ?op have said nothing about it .you seems to be talking to your self:wahab2
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OP is worried about India dropping games if it swings , I am just making the point that if world class batters might be in trouble imagine what will happen to average players.

But obviously you will choose to bury your head in the sand.
 
Hasan123 said:
OP is worried about India dropping games if it swings , I am just making the point that if world class batters might be in trouble imagine what will happen to average players.

But obviously you will choose to bury your head in the sand.
Click to expand...


I think you need to re-read op he have not pick pakistan in his final four for world cup. it seem currently you are burring your head in the sand.

Hasan123 said:
OP is worried about India dropping games if it swings , I am just making the point that if world class batters might be in trouble imagine what will happen to average players.
Click to expand...
 
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Hasan123 said:
OP is worried about India dropping games if it swings , I am just making the point that if world class batters might be in trouble imagine what will happen to average players.

But obviously you will choose to bury your head in the sand.
Click to expand...

Actually Pak batsman struggles have been more against swing with bounce or uneven bounce in conditions like SA and even NZ to some extent. Our batsmen generally fare better in Eng because our batsman dont struggle more than any other team with lateral movement alone and bowlers can actually make use of it.

Drawing test series in 2016 and 2018 in Eng prove that.
 
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If the ball starts swinging, England will finish 5th or 6th. Their batsmen can't play when conditions are tough.
 
saeed5646 said:
you should not be worried about pakistan they are least favorites for worldcup.Worry for india Apart from kohli rohit and dhawan have shown in past who well they can play tiniest of swing
Click to expand...

Not long ago England 27/9 in NZ , most recently reduced 77 al out against tiny swing. India exposed their top order repeatedly in England. Their conditions. They couldn't handle. India ripped open SA in SA in all 3 tests. They got away in couple of innings thanks to ABDV. There is no team that is comfortable against genuine swing bowling. How soon we forget Pakistan's struggle against Ireland in the test before huffing and puffing to a win. Point is every team is susceptible to swing. some teams are susceptible to bounce, turn, ball stopping pretty much everything. Those are the teams that should be worried.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Not long ago England 27/9 in NZ , most recently reduced 77 al out against tiny swing. India exposed their top order repeatedly in England. Their conditions. They couldn't handle. India ripped open SA in SA in all 3 tests. They got away in couple of innings thanks to ABDV. There is no team that is comfortable against genuine swing bowling. How soon we forget Pakistan's struggle against Ireland in the test before huffing and puffing to a win. Point is every team is susceptible to swing. some teams are susceptible to bounce, turn, ball stopping pretty much everything. Those are the teams that should be worried.
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it is funny that a team that was huffing and puffing against ireland latter on won a test match against eng and draw the series in eng and on the other hand india lost 4-1 .Pakistan lost a series against Sa did number one team won a series there?

There is reason Dhawan and sharm ji have not established in test becoz they cannot survive on supportive wicket they have not the ideal technique .
 
saeed5646 said:
it is funny that a team that was huffing and puffing against ireland latter on won a test match against eng and draw the series in eng and on the other hand india lost 4-1 .Pakistan lost a series against Sa did number one team won a series there?

There is reason Dhawan and sharm ji have not established in test becoz they cannot survive on supportive wicket they have not the ideal technique .
Click to expand...

Dude India has the best overall batting lineup in the world, all conditions considered. They've been beating teams left and right where the new ball does a bit in SENA barring England. They can bat first and can also chase. How many teams can claim that?

Dhawan and Sharma have decent enough technique to counter this. They might flop once in a while as every other batsman does. They have dominated in the last few years in all conditions. They have the world's best batsman at 3. Their middle order is in top 3 or 4 in the world. If you doubt me, just look at the numbers. Don't forget that India has been the best team in Eng in ICC tournaments this decade. They won the CT 2013 where the ball was swinging. It's more or less the same team that reached the final in 2017. You can't win in SENA easily.

Also please.dont compare Pak.and Indian test performances. India competed and Pak hasn't, drawn series considered.
 
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saeed5646 said:
it is funny that a team that was huffing and puffing against ireland latter on won a test match against eng and draw the series in eng and on the other hand india lost 4-1 .Pakistan lost a series against Sa did number one team won a series there?

There is reason Dhawan and sharm ji have not established in test becoz they cannot survive on supportive wicket they have not the ideal technique .
Click to expand...

This 'indirect comparison' absolutely serves no purpose. A beat B. D beat A. so B < A. For the record in the last two CTs that were held in England Dhawan/Rohit/Kohli were top run getters, absolute performers. Nobody else. Dinesh Karthik probably is not the same guy. He opened Test matches in England against swing of Anderson and sidebottom was a key part of India's series win over in England. he was the highest run getter in that series for India over Tendulkar, Ganguly, Dravid, Laxman.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/engvi...ing/most_runs_career.html?id=2872;type=series

KL Rahul is the only guy who completely turned into a hack. He struggled against everybody including domestic teams in India. He is rightly sent back. Vijay on the verge of retirement. Rahane was going through very very bad patch even outside England. India reached FINAL in CT2017 not the so called "favorites' England or SA or Australia or NZ. Aren't they supposed to be greatest players against swing?
 
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The tournament starts at the very end of May. The weather will be warm enough, probably dry enough and the pitches flat enough that I doubt traditional swing will play much part.

Reverse however, especially in mid June, will start to play a part.
 
Well who are the best swing bowlers in the tournament?

Boult, Kumar, Steyn and Amir.

So Top 4 will be NZ, IND, PAK and SA.
 
Wristies will play a major role. In one dayers you can come back in the middle overs even if the opposition is 100/0. Kane williamson played the entire IPL last season. Won purple cap. He was clueless against Kuldeep yesterday. he didn't know which way ball was turning on such a flat wicket where even mishits would go for six.
 
Pak has the best swing bowling attack.

Amir alone is the best swing bowler in the world. Shaheen can also do it.

2nd best in swinging conditions would be NZ and SA, joint.

So, Pak, NZ, SA will have advantage.
 
Titan24 said:
Actually Pak batsman struggles have been more against swing with bounce or uneven bounce in conditions like SA and even NZ to some extent. Our batsmen generally fare better in Eng because our batsman dont struggle more than any other team with lateral movement alone and bowlers can actually make use of it.

Drawing test series in 2016 and 2018 in Eng prove that.
Click to expand...


This batting line up is different to that one. Malik and Hafeez have known issues against pace. Fakhar has been exposed in recent months as well. I don’t trust this batting line up.
 
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