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IHC suspends Imran and Bushra Bibi's sentences in the Toshakhana case, while verdict in un-Islamic nikah case remains unchanged [Post Updated #303]

IMMY69 said:
You do know that it was the US, with the help of Pakistan, that formed the Taliban in the first place?

Us's interest in Pakistan started king before the war on terror..

Besides, do you really think that the US would allow a banana republic like Pakistan to have Nuclear Bombs if they didn't have a vested in interest?
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The Soviet threat doesn't exist anymore.
 
Major said:
source: just trust me bro.....


The 2018 election on the basis of popular vote and the seats won shows majority does not support pti
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I hope not. @Bewal Express says that so many times that he should have a source / link to a survey or poll.
 
Major said:
First of, the case was filed by her ex husband not by the Establishment, and he has valid grievances.
second, this women was politically involved in corruption aswell. She would be scrutinized. And last of all she was the first lady of Pakistan and was involved in magical practices.

Think about Obama's wife being involved in witch craft, teh whole nation would had gone crazy
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Yes off course it was. And you also believe that he went on holiday for 4 weeks, just like Azam Khan and 100s of others. As far as the corruption is concerned, they told us that Buzdar was involved but where are the cases against him, any idea.
 
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NishanKonar said:
No the US did not create Taliban. These batshit crazy conspiracy theories are popular among Pakistanis ( like 9 / 11 was CIA inside job ) but rest of world are bit more sane & sensible
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You can't rewrite history.
NishanKonar said:
No the US did not create Taliban. These batshit crazy conspiracy theories are popular among Pakistanis ( like 9 / 11 was CIA inside job ) but rest of world are bit more sane & sensible
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The US created the Taliban that exists now... read up on the 80's and early 90's and Carter followed by Reagan who funded the mujahadeen to fight against the soviet red army.

Also, this will be my last reply to you because I don't particularly like debating with an RSS supporter, particularly one that says Pakistani's like to propagate a myth.

Good night
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
It's incredible. These people are literally asking "why aren't people fighting the army?" Maybe when they are starving or have no homes to live in they will start chucking stones at the tanks and happily see their families wiped out.
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Don't fight the Establishment

The people can hold non-violent protests, the right to protest - isn't it a part of Pakistan's constitution ?. Where are the mass public rallies in support of Imran Khan ? You can hold a civil disobediance movement like Mahatma Gandhi did, cant you ?
 
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The trials were sham, as were the results.

Imran had to go against powers that run the country and he lost.

To think this is some sort of big legal argument is as sad as the same charge which resulted in ZAB's hanging.
 
Major said:
Yeh which is why he is locked up and cant be freed.

Atleast we saw revolutions in countries where the leader had "so much" support.
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So we need to be more like the PPP and Nooras who have no support, and will do as told, like a puppy being trained and getting a biscuit every time they are a good boy( or in Billos case, who knows)
 
MenInG said:
The trials were sham, as were the results.

Imran had to go against powers that run the country and he lost.

To think this is some sort of big legal argument is as sad as the same charge which resulted in ZAB's hanging.
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I am now waiting for the 1000 year jail sentence for IK.
 
YousafTheBeast said:
When @Major tells you that the majority of the public don’t support PTI then I suggest you take it with a pinch of salt.

There’s a reason why PDM broke the constitution by not holding the provincial elections in the 90 days after the assemblies were dissolved.

There’s a reason why there’s a media black out on IK.

There’s a reason why the Establishment are threatening, torturing and killing PTI workers.

There’s a reason why all these cases are being rushed before the elections.

It’s not because they’re afraid of a minority.
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I can't believe people still take this guy seriously. No credible lawyer considers any of these rulings legitimate but Major Saab apparently has a JD and knows the constitution better than lawyers themselves. Even international news and organizations consider these verdicts a joke and oppressive yet our locals are celebrating the destruction of democracy happening in front of them. When it comes to PPPs corruption everything can be brushed under the rug though
 
Kianig89 said:
This clip basically ate up all Ulema Judges and even worms like Maj alive
Hopefully Pakistani ulema will refute the verdict in this case
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This women destroyed the case in 2 min. But we know there was no case, Munir and Co, needed something and got it. The verdict is an insult to Islam and this judge and his handlers will one day have to answer for it.
 
insurge said:
I can't believe people still take this guy seriously. No credible lawyer considers any of these rulings legitimate but Major Saab apparently has a JD and knows the constitution better than lawyers themselves. Even international news and organizations consider these verdicts a joke and oppressive yet our locals are celebrating the destruction of democracy happening in front of them. When it comes to PPPs corruption everything can be brushed under the rug though
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We don't, he has shown to be total dimwit with no ability to debate or reply to a basic question. When he thinks he has something, he runs in like an excited child, says a few things and when challenged he runs off. @Major
 
Rana said:
I think that’s what Jeffery Dahmer got for his crimes.

He wanted the electric chair instead apparently
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In their desperation to hold onto power, they are making themselves look more than stupid than they already are. Things don't stay the same and no power lasts forever. Irrespective of whether IK lives or dies, these guys will have no face the music. Bajwa is hiding and that's just for being the coup mastermind, these guys have gone much further.
 
Rana said:
So then your judiciary can make decisions that suite them too at their time of need for all Islamic matters
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Well they have but without any basis. Read any law expert and you will see that this contradicts previous SC decisions.
 

Iddat case: Lawyers, civil society denounce ‘intellectual bankruptcy’ following Imran, Bushra’s conviction​

Former prime minister Imran Khan and his wife Bushra Bibi’s conviction and sentencing to seven years of imprisonment in the Iddat case on Saturday generated a strong backlash from lawyers and civil society who denounced the verdict.

The latest conviction was the fourth for the beleaguered PTI founder. He was sentenced to 14 years in jail in the Toshakhana reference by an accountability court on Wednesday, sentenced to 10 years in prison on Tuesday for leaking state secrets and convicted in a separate Toshakhana case in August last year with a sentence of three years imprisonment.

Regarding the former premier’s fourth conviction, this is what the experts had to say:

Lawyer Basil Nabi Malik told Dawn.com that when a former prime minister’s marriage resulted in not only a seven-year conviction but also a fine, “one should not only be worried about where we are headed but also about the intellectual bankruptcy of our preoccupations.”

He explained that a marriage contracted during the Iddat period would “at best, appear to be irregular and not void”.

Malik added that such an irregularity as per Sunni law and available case law “extinguishes on the expiry of the Iddat period itself”.

“The accused have been convicted under Section 496 which makes its applicability circumspect, especially when keeping in mind that such sections require intent and/or knowledge of ‘not lawfully being married’.

“Furthermore, the sheer coincidence of three back-to-back decisions against Imran Khan etc. right before elections, is, perhaps, one coincidence too many. But again, does anyone really care?”

Lawyer Rida Hosain told Dawn.com that the past week’s convictions had “completely discredited” the judiciary.

“It is clear that none of these convictions have anything to do with the law. The fact that the courts have failed to stop, and in fact, become part of the weaponisation of justice is tragic. Last year, Justice Mansoor Ali Shah ruled that ‘the right to dignity stands at the top, like a jewel in the crown of fundamental rights.’

“The right to dignity is absolute, and cannot be subjected to any restrictions, no matter how ‘reasonable’ they may be. Despite the Constitution guaranteeing these basic, fundamental rights, a married couple were forced into the courtroom, and required to defend entirely private decisions they had made. The message that this sends is that: nothing is sacred,” she opined.

Lawyer Abdul Moiz Jaferii referred to the verdict as a “joke”, saying that they “serve only to expose the circus that is our judicial system. They bring to the world the rot that is the rule of law in our country.”

Lawyer Reema Omer castigated the verdict as a “damning blot on our justice system”, saying it was horrifying how “the state stooped this low seemingly just to humiliate” the husband and wife.

Source: Dawn News
 
Religion is double edged sword

Imran portrayed himself as a devout born again Muslim to appeal to the masses. The Army by convicting Imran for this marriage case is sending message to the conservative masses that Imran is actually debauched !
 
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Rana said:
Who in Sunni Islam believes Shias are Muslims? Who in Shia Islam believes Sunni’s are Muslims??

Which human on earth has the authority to determine who is a Muslim and who isn’t??
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They all believe in the Kalima and Khatam e Nabuwat.
 
NishanKonar said:
Religion is double edged sword

Imran portrayed himself as a devout born again Muslim to appeal to the masses. The Army by convicting Imran for this marriage case is sending message to the conservative masses that Imran is actually debauched !
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The establishment may have sent the message but people also know the truth.
 
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Bewal Express said:
No, we will. And we have and others are also doing that today.
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Well, just like 1974…nothing will happen no matter how hard you cry. That’s the sad truth. Hopefully you are alive in 2074 to understand this truth.
 
RexRex said:
Don't fight the Establishment

The people can hold non-violent protests, the right to protest - isn't it a part of Pakistan's constitution ?. Where are the mass public rallies in support of Imran Khan ? You can hold a civil disobediance movement like Mahatma Gandhi did, cant you ?
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I don't follow events in Pakistan that closely, but I'm pretty sure that there were rallies initially when Imran was arrested, but they were put down pretty firmly.
 
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Varun said:
I hope not. @Bewal Express says that so many times that he should have a source / link to a survey or poll.
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he doesnt.

the accurate data is always the number of seats you win and the popular vote count

For PTI to have a majority they need to have enough votes and seats that is more than other parties that may combine. PTI had 31 % votes while PMLN and PPP had 37%.


Yet he makes up the 70% on his own.....

anyways, this election will show based on popular vote who has more support
 

PTI to challenge Nikah case verdict, says Barrister Gohar​


ISLAMABAD (Dunya News) – Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf leader Barrister Gohar Ali Khan said on Saturday the allegations hurled at the PTI founder and his wife in the Nikah case were highly unethical.

He said the decision was expected. “I told the judge that such a decision was not expected from you as it’s a frivolous case,” he said.

He said the cleric claimed that Aun Chaudhry brought him here. He said the judge had yet to sign the verdict. All of it was being done illegally and unethically, he added.

“Law stipulates that the judge seeks signature of the convicts and hands over a copy of the verdict,” he said.

Gohar said the PTI founder was unlike other politicians. “It’s for the first time in history that the intra-party elections of just one party were scrutinised. All possible efforts are being made to oust us from elections and this fact is as clear as day,” he bemoaned.

He said the PTI wanted to move court against the decision and “we hope to get justice in the case.” He said the event mentioned during the course of case proceedings was meant for prayers, not Nikah, he said.

He said the PTI founder had conveyed a message to workers that they should remain peaceful and the only deal he would enter into would be related to country’s prosperity.

Barrister Gohar said the party would also challenge Bushra Bibi’s confinement to one room. She should be allowed to move about freely in her house, he added.

Source: Dunya News
 
Major said:
he doesnt.

the accurate data is always the number of seats you win and the popular vote count

For PTI to have a majority they need to have enough votes and seats that is more than other parties that may combine. PTI had 31 % votes while PMLN and PPP had 37%.


Yet he makes up the 70% on his own.....

anyways, this election will show based on popular vote who has more support
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I've realized this.

And even such data is over half a decade old now.
 
Major said:
he doesnt.

the accurate data is always the number of seats you win and the popular vote count

For PTI to have a majority they need to have enough votes and seats that is more than other parties that may combine. PTI had 31 % votes while PMLN and PPP had 37%.


Yet he makes up the 70% on his own.....

anyways, this election will show based on popular vote who has more support
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Why did Isa ban surveys? Why did the mafia not hold elections? Let's say its not 70%, let's say its 60% or even 50% but you don't go to the lengths you guys did if the elections didn't need deep engineering.
 
Major said:
he doesnt.

the accurate data is always the number of seats you win and the popular vote count

For PTI to have a majority they need to have enough votes and seats that is more than other parties that may combine. PTI had 31 % votes while PMLN and PPP had 37%.


Yet he makes up the 70% on his own.....

anyways, this election will show based on popular vote who has more support
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Tell me what is the best way to find out the exact figure? Have you heard of this amazing thing called elections? Punjab and KP didn't have elections, so how do you know my figure was wrong
 
Fact of the matter is none of the elections in Pakistan have been legit. They are always manipulated and doctored and rigged. From more recent history the number of times PPP and Pamal have formed governments like a game of musical chairs one after another is basically an evidence to it that the army uses and dumps, rinse and repeats these parties to meet their own goals.


So no one party has truly ever had the mandate for various reasons but the army being the biggest one. One could say in 2018 army interfered to make imran form the government but also to make sure he didn’t get 2/3 majority.

But ne thing is for sure.. he is the onlyone who has stood up to them and if army wasn’t scared of his huge mandate, they would have held the elections a long time ago.
 
Stewie said:
Fact of the matter is none of the elections in Pakistan have been legit. They are always manipulated and doctored and rigged. From more recent history the number of times PPP and Pamal have formed governments like a game of musical chairs one after another is basically an evidence to it that the army uses and dumps, rinse and repeats these parties to meet their own goals.


So no one party has truly ever had the mandate for various reasons but the army being the biggest one. One could say in 2018 army interfered to make imran form the government but also to make sure he didn’t get 2/3 majority.

But ne thing is for sure.. he is the onlyone who has stood up to them and if army wasn’t scared of his huge mandate, they would have held the elections a long time ago.
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how did he stood up? Exactly how did he stood up?

He begged bajwa to do a coup when he was about to be removed. He kept asking for the establishment to intervene and support him. Infact he was the one giving extention to Bajwa in first place.

So let me get this straight, he gets thrown of his chair, and that is called him standing up?

The army did not remove him because he stood up to them, the establishment removed him because they figured out that he was a lunatic that was letting the country go into bankruptcy. The only thing he stood up to was his stubborness of not removing Buzdar. That is not exactly standing up to the establishment sorry.

The establishment is not letting populism win because they know the effect it could have.

Even IF Imran wins a 70-30 majority (thats a big if), GHQ is protected. The person protecting Imran would be the 111 brigade that can anytime throw imran from office in case of a coup. If Imran ever gets parliament, the election for senate is after 2 years, and they will make sure it will keep senate for itself. Bills against the army can only be passed by the Senate.

Alot of hyperbole gets posted here that Imran stood up to the establishment, or imran winnign a majority can eliminate the establishment's role in politics in etc.
It reminds me of the time when Imran won the 2018 rigged elections, he didnt have a majority back than and we had pti fans talking about how corruption will end etc. Bhai, to end corruption you need to pass a bill and for a bill you need seats in majority.
 
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Major said:
how did he stood up? Exactly how did he stood up?

He begged bajwa to do a coup when he was about to be removed. He kept asking for the army to intervene and support him. Infact he was the one giving extention to Bajwa in first place.

So let me get this straight, he gets thrown of his chair, and that is called him standing up?

The army did not remove him because he stood up to them, the army removed him because they figured out that he was a lunatic that was letting the country go into bankruptcy. The only thing he stood up to was his stubborness of not removing Buzdar. That is not exactly standing up to the army sorry.

When 9th may was happening him and his party were soiling their pants and kept begging people not to do protest. Again how did he stood up?

The army is not letting populism win because they know the effect it could have.

Even IF Imran wins a 70-30 majority (thats a big if), GHQ is protected. The person protecting Imran would be the 111 brigade that can anytime throw imran from office in case of a coup. If Imran ever gets parliament, the election for senate is after 2 years, and the Army will make sure it will keep senate for itself. Bills against the army can only be passed by the Senate.

Alot of hyperbole gets posted here that Imran stood up to the army, or imran winnign a majority can eliminate the army's role in politics in etc.
It reminds me of the time when Imran won the 2018 rigged elections, he didnt have a majority back than and we had pti fans talking about how corruption will end etc. Bhai, to end corruption you need to pass a bill and for a bill you need seats in majority.
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So you think the country is better off economically now that army has removed him?

He stood up to them because he wanted to do his own thing and not take their dictstion. His deal with Russia was one of the factors he was overthrown. You can regurgitate all the BS talking points of the establishment, but don’t for a minute think we will forget when you start dumping the blame on the same establishment when your own party is target of their wrath.

You know full well how the system works. You also know full well how BB and Zardari raked in the favors by kissing their feet. They were part of the crooked system. They never tried to fight back.

Imran is…. And somehow that escaped your awareness.
 
Stewie said:
So you think the country is better off economically now that army has removed him?

He stood up to them because he wanted to do his own thing and not take their dictstion. His deal with Russia was one of the factors he was overthrown. You can regurgitate all the BS talking points of the establishment, but don’t for a minute think we will forget when you start dumping the blame on the same establishment when your own party is target of their wrath.

You know full well how the system works. You also know full well how BB and Zardari raked in the favors by kissing their feet. They were part of the crooked system. They never tried to fight back.

Imran is…. And somehow that escaped your awareness.
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bhai, the question is where did he stood up to them?

The deal with russia was not him doing it. China made him do it through, and had Bajwa convincing him to do it.

Its funny how Imran gets pushed off his chair, and you see it as Imran standing up.


I never said the country is better off with army controlling its economy. But back in 2020, everyone could see that the country will be bankrupted. There were reports of this happening and that is the time when Imran decided why not start a health scheme where a country with no money is now increasing the govt spending and creating a larger defecit.

Everyone could see that this was not a sustainable project and few other projects like these and the country is going to be doomed in a few months. That is exactly what happened.

Imran even made the whole economic council a based on theology, and decided to remove Atif Mian because he did not follow the same faith as him.

The army was desperate because of the economy running down. The army is hoping on Nawaz to save the economy and if he fails than the next move will either be getting PPP to help them form better relations worldwide or do a straight coup
 
Major said:
bhai, the question is where did he stood up to them?

The deal with russia was not him doing it. China made him do it through, and had Bajwa convincing him to do it.

Its funny how Imran gets pushed off his chair, and you see it as Imran standing up.


I never said the country is better off with army controlling its economy. But back in 2020, everyone could see that the country will be bankrupted. There were reports of this happening and that is the time when Imran decided why not start a health scheme where a country with no money is now increasing the govt spending and creating a larger defecit.

Everyone could see that this was not a sustainable project and few other projects like these and the country is going to be doomed in a few months. That is exactly what happened.

Imran even made the whole economic council a based on theology, and decided to remove Atif Mian because he did not follow the same faith as him.

The army was desperate because of the economy running down. The army is hoping on Nawaz to save the economy and if he fails than the next move will either be getting PPP to help them form better relations worldwide or do a straight coup
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He refused to recognise Isreal( Hamid Mir), he refused to let Kashmir annexation be another thing( multiple sources Inc Hamid Mir), he refused to appoint Aleem Khan as CM, he refused to back Ukraine against the wishes of Bajwa and the Americans, he refused to give bases( Absolutely not) against the wishes of Bajwa, he refused to give AZ and NS an NRO against the wishes of Bajwa, he refused to let Nani go abroad against the wishes of Bajwa, he refused the drone bombings against the wishes of Bajwa, he sent a demarche against the wishes of Bajwa.
You need to stop with your copy and paste Geo crap. Your the guy that told us elections would be on time? Were they? You told us watch what happens when elections aren't on time, so tell us what did you do? Did you protest at the binning of the Constitution?
 
Major said:
bhai, the question is where did he stood up to them?

The deal with russia was not him doing it. China made him do it through, and had Bajwa convincing him to do it.

Its funny how Imran gets pushed off his chair, and you see it as Imran standing up.


I never said the country is better off with army controlling its economy. But back in 2020, everyone could see that the country will be bankrupted. There were reports of this happening and that is the time when Imran decided why not start a health scheme where a country with no money is now increasing the govt spending and creating a larger defecit.

Everyone could see that this was not a sustainable project and few other projects like these and the country is going to be doomed in a few months. That is exactly what happened.

Imran even made the whole economic council a based on theology, and decided to remove Atif Mian because he did not follow the same faith as him.

The army was desperate because of the economy running down. The army is hoping on Nawaz to save the economy and if he fails than the next move will either be getting PPP to help them form better relations worldwide or do a straight coup
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As far as the economy- PK had increased exports by a 1/3rd, CAD was controlled but growth was at 6%, IT exports at record levels, Textile Exports recovered to near record levels, millions of jobs created and PK didn't starve in Corona because of IK. So stop posting lies when you have nothing else.
 
Major said:
bhai, the question is where did he stood up to them?

The deal with russia was not him doing it. China made him do it through, and had Bajwa convincing him to do it.

Its funny how Imran gets pushed off his chair, and you see it as Imran standing up.


I never said the country is better off with army controlling its economy. But back in 2020, everyone could see that the country will be bankrupted. There were reports of this happening and that is the time when Imran decided why not start a health scheme where a country with no money is now increasing the govt spending and creating a larger defecit.

Everyone could see that this was not a sustainable project and few other projects like these and the country is going to be doomed in a few months. That is exactly what happened.

Imran even made the whole economic council a based on theology, and decided to remove Atif Mian because he did not follow the same faith as him.

The army was desperate because of the economy running down. The army is hoping on Nawaz to save the economy and if he fails than the next move will either be getting PPP to help them form better relations worldwide or do a straight coup
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He is in jail. His party is disqualified. He resigned so elections could be held (something your PPP never ever was brave enough to do), he was given an out but he preferred jail.

He waved the cipher to tell the people how foreign factors and army control our country but of course you know that already. First you said it’s not real now you say it’s gaddari.

So you keep dodging all the debate arguments and keep shifting the goal posts. Bottom line is you are pro PPP and like most pakistanis with PPP and PML allegiance you are stubbornly loyal to them. None of this will convince you.
 
Major said:
bhai, the question is where did he stood up to them?

The deal with russia was not him doing it. China made him do it through, and had Bajwa convincing him to do it.

Its funny how Imran gets pushed off his chair, and you see it as Imran standing up.


I never said the country is better off with army controlling its economy. But back in 2020, everyone could see that the country will be bankrupted. There were reports of this happening and that is the time when Imran decided why not start a health scheme where a country with no money is now increasing the govt spending and creating a larger defecit.

Everyone could see that this was not a sustainable project and few other projects like these and the country is going to be doomed in a few months. That is exactly what happened.

Imran even made the whole economic council a based on theology, and decided to remove Atif Mian because he did not follow the same faith as him.

The army was desperate because of the economy running down. The army is hoping on Nawaz to save the economy and if he fails than the next move will either be getting PPP to help them form better relations worldwide or do a straight coup
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Was the cypher real? Why do you comment and then run.
 
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Stewie said:
He is in jail. His party is disqualified. He resigned so elections could be held (something your PPP never ever was brave enough to do), he was given an out but he preferred jail.

He waved the cipher to tell the people how foreign factors and army control our country but of course you know that already. First you said it’s not real now you say it’s gaddari.

So you keep dodging all the debate arguments and keep shifting the goal posts. Bottom line is you are pro PPP and like most pakistanis with PPP and PML allegiance you are stubbornly loyal to them. None of this will convince you.
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Stewie said:
He is in jail. His party is disqualified. He resigned so elections could be held (something your PPP never ever was brave enough to do), he was given an out but he preferred jail.

He waved the cipher to tell the people how foreign factors and army control our country but of course you know that already. First you said it’s not real now you say it’s gaddari.

So you keep dodging all the debate arguments and keep shifting the goal posts. Bottom line is you are pro PPP and like most pakistanis with PPP and PML allegiance you are stubbornly loyal to them. None of this will convince you.
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No point in debating. Some people are indoctrinated from a young age to regurgitate anything they have been fed that aligns with their self beliefs. This lack of critical thinking is not uncommon among the public in Pakistan and they will never concede no matter how many times you will prove them wrong. They will continue to defend their ideological views in the face of chaos and corruption even if it costs them their credibility. Its either ignorance or they are the benefactors of the corrupt system. I know many folks personally with the exact same views who do it for personal gain.
 
Stewie said:
He is in jail. His party is disqualified. He resigned so elections could be held (something your PPP never ever was brave enough to do), he was given an out but he preferred jail.

He waved the cipher to tell the people how foreign factors and army control our country but of course you know that already. First you said it’s not real now you say it’s gaddari.

So you keep dodging all the debate arguments and keep shifting the goal posts. Bottom line is you are pro PPP and like most pakistanis with PPP and PML allegiance you are stubbornly loyal to them. None of this will convince you.
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he resigned?

he is the only pm to lose the confidence of the people and was removed from the office, he did not resign.

You need to stop spreading made up lies here. First the taliban now this
 
Major said:
he resigned?

he is the only pm to lose the confidence of the people and was removed from the office, he did not resign.

You need to stop spreading made up lies here. First the taliban now this
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He didn't lose the vote confidence, he was overthrown. And all the subsequent events have proved him right. Do you think that AZ, SS and Bajwa should face the death penalty under Article 6.
 
Bewal Express said:
He didn't lose the vote confidence, he was overthrown. And all the subsequent events have proved him right. Do you think that AZ, SS and Bajwa should face the death penalty under Article 6.
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what do you mean he was overthrown? his was a coalition government and when the coalition fell, he was voted out in the parliment. He would have a better case if he had let the vote take make in peace. he tried all kinda shenanigans for reasonts that are unclear. All he to do wait in opposition for 1 year. he thought he was too good for that.
 
rpant_gabba said:
what do you mean he was overthrown? his was a coalition government and when the coalition fell, he was voted out in the parliment. He would have a better case if he had let the vote take make in peace. he tried all kinda shenanigans for reasonts that are unclear. All he to do wait in opposition for 1 year. he thought he was too god for that.
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basically living in denial.

ironically, uk had a similar thing happening which they accepted
 
rpant_gabba said:
what do you mean he was overthrown? his was a coalition government and when the coalition fell, he was voted out in the parliment. He would have a better case if he had let the vote take make in peace. he tried all kinda shenanigans for reasonts that are unclear. All he to do wait in opposition for 1 year. he thought he was too god for that.
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I am not sure why you are confused, the last 2 years have proved him right. There has been a coup, the SC confirmed that those MNAs couldn't vote against their party, the coup led no elections in PUNJAB and KP and the General elections are also late. Which bit is confusing your brain
 
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Major said:
basically living in denial.

ironically, uk had a similar thing happening which they accepted
Click to expand...
Was the cypher real, what should happen to the coup plotters, what should happen to people that stopped the elections. At least grow a pair and answer these questions.
 
Bewal Express said:
I am not sure why you are confused, the last 2 years have proved him right. There has been a coup, the SC confirmed that those MNAs couldn't vote against their party, the coup led no elections in PUNJAB and KP and the General elections are also late. Which bit is confusing your late brain
Click to expand...
No confusion.

He went against establishment and establishment found a way get rid of him thro the parliment.

Worldwide, elected official switch parties and allegiance. IF that is a problem for IK he shouldn't be in politics. As usual, he wanted special treatment an dwhen he didn't get it, started throwing toys out the pram.

here is vajpayee in 1996 after he got the rug pulled under him.


he had his say, went to oppostion and came back stronger

a more recent example is Boris who lost his PM ship after winning the election big. his supporters deserted him and he was done.
 
rpant_gabba said:
No confusion.

He went against establishment and establishment found a way get rid of him thro the parliment.

Worldwide, elected official switch parties and allegiance. IF that is a problem for IK he shouldn't be in politics. As usual, he wanted special treatment an dwhen he didn't get it, started throwing toys out the pram.

here is vajpayee in 1996 after he got the rug pulled under him.


he had his say, went to oppostion and came back stronger

a more recent example is Boris who lost his PM ship after winning the election big. his supporters deserted him and he was done.
Click to expand...
So it's a coup. They had the courts opened at midnight, they ordered the Nooras to vote for the coup as per Javed Latif, they stopped the SC from hearing the cypher case or the horse trading case. So it's a coup. Thanks for confirming. I knew I would make you see sense
 
Major said:
he resigned?

he is the only pm to lose the confidence of the people and was removed from the office, he did not resign.

You need to stop spreading made up lies here. First the taliban now this
Click to expand...
All his party seat holders resigned to force an election within 90 days. Did that election happen? And let us keep the taliban discussion to that thread. I could dig up plenty of lies you have peddled here as well.
 
Bewal Express said:
So it's a coup. They had the courts opened at midnight, they ordered the Nooras to vote for the coup as per Javed Latif, they stopped the SC from hearing the cypher case or the horse trading case. So it's a coup. Thanks for confirming. I knew I would make you see sense
Click to expand...
Courts had to opened at midnight becos of IK's shameless shenanigans. first dissolve the assembly. when that didn't work, try to prevent vote from taking place.

You and IK might have issues withe rules of Pakistani politics. But both you and IK knew the rules before hand.

Is horse trading illegal? if its not, u and IK don't have a leg to stand on. Regardless of the motivation.
 
Stewie said:
All his party seat holders resigned to force an election within 90 days. Did that election happen? And let us keep the taliban discussion to that thread. I could dig up plenty of lies you have peddled here as well.
Click to expand...
did they? I thought it was the subsitute speaker who illegally dissolved the assembly?

I have no horse in this race. In my view all IK had to do was go sit in opposition with all him MP's for about a year and let the establishment hang themselves.

IF the support of teh public to his as massive as he says it is, it would have been a cakewalk in the next election.

he made a mess of the situation becos of his ego.
 
rpant_gabba said:
No confusion.

He went against establishment and establishment found a way get rid of him thro the parliment.

Worldwide, elected official switch parties and allegiance. IF that is a problem for IK he shouldn't be in politics. As usual, he wanted special treatment an dwhen he didn't get it, started throwing toys out the pram.

here is vajpayee in 1996 after he got the rug pulled under him.


he had his say, went to oppostion and came back stronger

a more recent example is Boris who lost his PM ship after winning the election big. his supporters deserted him and he was done.
Click to expand...

If you were a history teacher all your students would fail their exams
 
IMMY69 said:
If you were a history teacher all your students would fail their exams
Click to expand...
elaborate.

Pak democracy has always been weak and intefered with by the establishment. If IK thought the rules will be different for him, he was delusional
 
Stewie said:
The ball is watta. Should be called for throwing. Not a legal delivery.

You have no dog in the fight and you don’t have any understanding of the events and facts leading up to this but you sure seem to run your mouth as if you had a direct line to Bajwa and Munir.

PTI ministers resigned to force elections in 90 days after the vote of no confidence and according to the constitution the caretaker government was supposed to hold them. Didn’t happen. I suggest next time you want to grace us with your views, at least be educated regarding the topic.
Click to expand...
That is after deputy speaker didn't allow the VONC to take place.

Was it in his writ to do that? if it is and the supreme court overruled him 5-0, then there is not recourse is there?

It simply means that civilian goverment and institutions are simply a front. GHQ decides, just like 2018 and many many instances before.

If that is the case, all this discussions are waste of time.
 
rpant_gabba said:
That is after deputy speaker didn't allow the VONC to take place.

Was it in his writ to do that? if it is and the supreme court overruled him 5-0, then there is not recourse is there?

It simply means that civilian goverment and institutions are simply a front. GHQ decides, just like 2018 and many many instances before.

If that is the case, all this discussions are waste of time.
Click to expand...
Now you are learning.

It is a waste of time. This is all a farce. All the votes of no confidence, cases, imprisonments, judgments.. etc.

The establishment pulls the strings.
 
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Stewie said:
The establishment pulls the strings.
Click to expand...
Hasn't always been the case? for the entire existence of pakistan?

sounds to me like people haven't leaned a thing from history of pakistani politics.

What convinced you that IK would be treated differently by the establishment?
 
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rpant_gabba said:
Hasn't always been the case? for the entire existence of pakistan?

sounds to me like people haven't leaned a thing from history of pakistani politics.

What convinced you that IK would be treated differently by the establishment?
Click to expand...
Not sure what you are trying to say. Perhaps put something tangible on the table.

A little explanation from me and perhaps most of the Pakistanis who support IK will help you understand. I won’t say it again so read it carefully.
We have always known who is pulling the strings. Without question. But no political party ever stood up to the establishment. IK is willing to go toe to toe with them. Plus we believe he is an honest man.

So what’s your paint point here? You want us to not even express our views and support for him here?
 
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Stewie said:
Not sure what you are trying to say. Perhaps put something tangible on the table.

A little explanation from me and perhaps most of the Pakistanis who support IK will help you understand. I won’t say it again so read it carefully.
We have always known who is pulling the strings. Without question. But no political party ever stood up to the establishment. IK is willing to go toe to toe with them. Plus we believe he is an honest man.

So what’s your paint point here? You want us to not even express our views and support for him here?
Click to expand...
Plus I have already said it’s a farce. Also we were not expecting any different treatment for him. But now we have someone we can back and hopefully the people power will trounce the establishment. We could not have expected other leaders to stand up tall to the establishment plus they were all corrupt.

It’s a tall ask but what else can we do but hope?
 
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Stewie said:
Not sure what you are trying to say. Perhaps put something tangible on the table.

A little explanation from me and perhaps most of the Pakistanis who support IK will help you understand. I won’t say it again so read it carefully.
We have always known who is pulling the strings. Without question. But no political party ever stood up to the establishment. IK is willing to go toe to toe with them. Plus we believe he is an honest man.

So what’s your paint point here? You want us to not even express our views and support for him here?
Click to expand...
Oh yes they have. Awami league. They won the election and took on the establishment. paid a heavy price for it.

So don't make it sound like he was swimming against the current.

no other party has stood up in last 3-4 decades becos they all know how the story ends.

PPP with Z.A bhutto against Zia in the 70's

Nawaz who was Zia's protege against establishment on multiple occasions.

Benazir.

IK though the was an exception. Sound like both IK and his supporters are naive.
 
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rpant_gabba said:
Oh yes they have. Awami league. They won the election and took on the establishment. paid a heavy price for it.

So don't make it sound like he was swimming against the current.

no other party has stood up in last 3-4 decades becos they all know how the story ends.

PPP with Z.A bhutto against Zia in the 70's

Nawaz who was Zia's protege against establishment on multiple occasions.

Benazir.

IK though the was an exception. Sound like both IK and his supporters are naive.
Click to expand...
I don’t get people’s ..especially Indian fascination with putting down Imran. Imran tried to work out of the system for over 20 years. Didn’t work. He had to work from within the system and had to court the establishment. If you can’t make a dent you have to be smart about it and try to reform the system from within. He tried to do that paid for it. BB ran to dubai by the way and so did zardari. And she got taken out by her husband not the establishment . She had their blessing which is why she came back.

you think you know everything, but such comments of yours betray your prejudice towards imran
 
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Stewie said:
I don’t get people’s ..especially Indian fascination with putting down Imran. Imran tried to work out of the system for over 20 years. Didn’t work. He had to work from within the system and had to court the establishment. If you can’t make a dent you have to be smart about it and try to reform the system from within.
Click to expand...
By recruiting the "electables"? by allying with "diesel"? he had to know what he paid for. Are you telling me he didn't think they would abandon him for the right price? is he that naive

By hijacking the parliment to avoid VONC?
Stewie said:
He tried to do that paid for it.
Click to expand...
Just like every other PM of Pak. if he was as smart as you say he is, he would known his approach for the last 3 months was never going to work. Working within system means that accepting the bumps on the road, like having to to sit in opposition.

IK thought he was too good for that. is he?

Stewie said:
BB ran to dubai by the way and so did zardari. And she got taken out by her husband not the establishment. She had their blessing which is why she came back.
Click to expand...
As I said, every PM of pakistan plays second fiddle to establishment. some pay the price with their life and others in exile.
Stewie said:
you think you know everything, but such comments of yours betray your prejudice towards imran
Click to expand...
funny how you make the discussion about me. you know you have nothing left.

lets summarize.

1) All Pm's of Pakistan, yes even the messiah IK, have played secondary role to establishment.

2) That situation is not going to change any time soon, regardless of how much you wish for it too while living outside pakistan.

Now, present a path forward for pakistani citizens who live there.
 
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Stewie said:
BB ran to dubai by the way and so did zardari. And she got taken out by her husband not the establishment. She had their blessing which is why she came back.

you think you know everything, but such comments of yours betray your prejudice towards imran
Click to expand...
Again you are lying without any proof. Show proof that Benazir was killed by her husband. Hope you know what holy Quran says about liars.
 
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CricketCartoons said:
Again you are lying without any proof. Show proof that Benazir was killed by her husband. Hope you know what holy Quran says about liars.
Click to expand...
its a lie that pakistani conspiracy theorist love to tell themselves
 
moghul said:
The " state" has gone bankrupt morally .
Click to expand...
This summarizes everything what happened this week but have to say Imran Khan has shown that he is man of steel against those in power despite all the state machinery horrendously working against him and his party.
 
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Manager101 said:
This summarizes everything what happened this week but have to say Imran Khan has shown that he is man of steel against those in power despite all the state machinery horrendously working against him and his party.
Click to expand...
Imran Khan's steel was not under question, so he is not proving anything new. The steel of his supporters is under question.
 
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CricketCartoons said:
Imran Khan's steel was not under question, so he is not proving anything new. The steel of his supporters is under question.
Click to expand...
what is under question is his the matter in between his ears.

His ability to assess the situation is high questionable.

1) economy: Won't go to IMF. Thw whole world knew IMF was Pakistan's only option

2) Ummah Welfare: Pleads ignorance about Xinjiang

3) screwed up CPEC with poor communication

4) Pissed off Pakistans biggest benefactor: US

5) pissed of his biggest benefactor: Establishment

6) completely missed what is supporters are willing to do

what can he assess correctly?
 
Imran, Bushra convicted in Iddat case, too

For ex-prime minister Imran Khan who was sent to jail after his conviction and subsequent disqualification in the Toshakhana case, the sentence in the Iddat case on Saturday was the third conviction in merely one week.

After a jail trial, senior civil judge Qudratullah sentenced the PTI leader and his spouse Bushra Bibi to seven years in jail, along with a Rs0.5 million fine each, for “contracting marriage during the ‘Iddat’ (period of waiting)” of the former first lady.

Bushra Bibi is incarcerated at the Banigala residence of Imran Khan following her conviction in the Toshakhana reference. The judge set aside the ‘nikah’ of Mr Khan and Bushra Bibi solemnised on January 1, 2018, as he announced the sentence under Section 496 of the Pakistan Penal Code.

“Whoever, dishonestly or with a fraudulent intention, goes through the ceremony of being married, knowing that he is not thereby lawfully married, shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to seven years, and shall be liable to fine,” the clause reads.

According to the court, the ‘nikah’ was solemnised during the “mandatory Iddat period” of Bushra Bibi. However, Mr Khan and Bushra Bibi are still in a “legitimate relationship” as the court ruled that the Feb 14, 2018, ‘nikah’ of the couple was legal.

‘Lodged to humiliate me’

Though the couple insisted that the ceremony held in Feb 2018 was merely a “dua (blessings)” for public affirmation, the court ruled it as a “valid nikah” on the basis of testimonies of cleric Mufti Saeed and Awn Chaudhry, once a close aide to Imran Khan. These prosecution witnesses testified that the first nikah was on Jan 1, 2018 and the second ceremony was held in Feb 2018. Mr Khan and Bushra Bibi also recorded their statements, saying they entered ‘nikah’ after the ‘Iddat’ had lapsed.

Mr Khan termed it a politically motivated case, instituted to hurt his dignity and repute. Bushra Bibi also claimed that her ex-husband Khawar Fareed Manika had already divorced her in April, but signed the divorce deed in November 2017. The couple requested the court to allow them to produce the witnesses in their defence.

The judge, on the other hand, termed the application seeking the same relief as delay tactics and rejected the request. Initially, Section 496-B was invoked in this case for alleged fornication. It was later dropped when the charges were framed.

During his testimony in the court, Mr Manika claimed that Mr Khan had an affair with his wife since 2014 and he was a “frequent visitor of his house”. He said he had repeatedly asked Bushra Bibi to avoid meeting Mr Khan but to no avail and as a last resort he divorced her but “with an intention of reconciliation during the Iddat”. According to Khawar Manika, the “untimely nikah” of Mr Khan and Bushra Bibi deprived him of availing the opportunity of reconciliation.

The court observed that the judgement of the apex court that defines the minimum Iddat period as 39 days was not “relevant in this particular case”. “The nutshell of the above discussion is that the complainant has been able to prove that the respondents [Mr Khan and Bushra Bibi] have gone through an unlawful marriage ceremony on Jan 1, 2018, with dishonest and fraudulent intention and as such has established the charge against the respondents for an offence within the meaning of section 496 PPC… [Both] are convicted under the provision of section 496 PPC and sentenced to simple imprisonment for a period of seven years each,” the 51-page verdict said.

Talking to the media persons at Adiala Jail, Mr Khan said that the case was lodged to humiliate him. He added that such cases could not deter him and he would not accept any ‘deal’ with the military establishment.

PTI denounces ruling

In a statement, the PTI denounced the verdict as contrary to ‘Sharia’ and said it was a “reprehensible attack” on the marriage and family laws and unethical interference in private affairs.

A PTI spokesperson alleged that the judge “removed the mask of honour, modesty, shame and civilisation from the face of the state and exposed its face before the [entire] world”.

After sentences in the cipher and Toshakhana references earlier this week, “the elements tried to push forward the agenda of hateful political revenge by convicting Imran Khan in the Iddat case through a premeditated and shameful verdict”, the former ruling party alleged.

The PTI said people would react on Feb 8 against injustices and inflict a “crushing defeat on the crooked and corrupt political leaders” in the general elections.

SOURCE: https://www.dawn.com/news/1810996/imran-bushra-convicted-in-iddat-case-too
 
rpant_gabba said:
what is under question is his the matter in between his ears.

His ability to assess the situation is high questionable.

1) economy: Won't go to IMF. Thw whole world knew IMF was Pakistan's only option

2) Ummah Welfare: Pleads ignorance about Xinjiang

3) screwed up CPEC with poor communication

4) Pissed off Pakistans biggest benefactor: US

5) pissed of his biggest benefactor: Establishment

6) completely missed what is supporters are willing to do

what can he assess correctly?
Click to expand...
I agree on his flaws. I have read two books authored by him and didn't find him very insightful or intellectual. He is also prone to emotional outbursts and virtue signalling. He is also a narcissist. But never doubt his dedication, his resolve, his philanthropy, his love for Pakistan, and his intention for its betterment. He still stands tall among the current crop of politicians.
 
rpant_gabba said:
By recruiting the "electables"? by allying with "diesel"? he had to know what he paid for. Are you telling me he didn't think they would abandon him for the right price? is he that naive

By hijacking the parliment to avoid VONC?

Just like every other PM of Pak. if he was as smart as you say he is, he would known his approach for the last 3 months was never going to work. Working within system means that accepting the bumps on the road, like having to to sit in opposition.

IK thought he was too good for that. is he?


As I said, every PM of pakistan plays second fiddle to establishment. some pay the price with their life and others in exile.

funny how you make the discussion about me. you know you have nothing left.

lets summarize.

1) All Pm's of Pakistan, yes even the messiah IK, have played secondary role to establishment.

2) That situation is not going to change any time soon, regardless of how much you wish for it too while living outside pakistan.

Now, present a path forward for pakistani citizens who live there.
Click to expand...

Let us worry about pakistans path forward, Pakistanis who live in Pakistan or elsewhere. We don’t have to present anything to bharati hindus. Don’t think you fully understand your place in this discussion.

You negative comments and prejudice here simply tell me Imran is doing the right things.
 
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