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Imran Khan has just 15% vision left in right eye, family blames medical neglect [Update@post823]

guard said:
Is that meant to be funny..?

Hope none of your loved ones get to experience injustice and then hear other mock you..
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The guy you’re defending didn’t he mock Nawaz Sharif himself?

I can show you dozens of videos.

What he sowed for others he is seeping himself

That’s called karma.
 
What happened, i thought there was a protest and an uprising going on for the blind man in Pakistan?

Pti dubara thuss hogaye. Story of their life.
 
Major said:
What happened, i thought there was a protest and an uprising going on for the blind man in Pakistan?

Pti dubara thuss hogaye. Story of their life.
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PTI is only left in UK

I feel sorry for these overseas supporters they have been fooled to believe 80% of pakistan support PTI 🤣🤣

some of them have been ripped off they have been sending monthly fees etc.. for a party thats non existence lol

Biggest lie they have been told is the elections have been stolen 🤣🤣🤣
 
I am disappointed that PM Modi has not yet called for a fair treatment for Imran Khan. Would that be considered outside interference by Pakistan dictatorship?

It true that Imran Khan broke a sacred unwritten rule of global diplomacy by launching personal attacks on Modi. But in geopolitics, you don’t hold grudges and humanitarian cause must always be top priority.
 
emranabbas said:
The guy you’re defending didn’t he mock Nawaz Sharif himself?

I can show you dozens of videos.

What he sowed for others he is seeping himself

That’s called karma.
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I agree with you that Imran Kha went full personal with his attacks on Pakistani as well as global leaders. That was the beginning of the end.

He broke all the bridges that could have helped him later on.

Even in hardcore politics, there is always backchannel diplomacy. He left no room for that because when he was in power he thought he was a messiah and everyone else was beneath him and went on non stop personal attacks against just about everyone.
 
Well .. now he will literally have a one-eyed view on everything.

My apologies if that joke has been made a hundred times on this thread already.
 
Syed1 said:
Inshallah Pakistan will continue to be humiliated like what happened yesterday
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Sports doesn’t matter so much, Nepal routinely gets humiliated in sports but is a nation with pride and inward migration unlike other South Asian nations.
 
KingKhanWC said:
Every single post you write is fake and bootlicking . Not sure why fangirls of Temu general and choose have no brains like their masters to debate .

Back on topic , the haramzaday so called government are very fearful now . Pakistan is a turning point now
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As I said it is more respectable to accept it was fake news and move on than to double down on something wrong.
 
Extra_Cover said:
I don't doubt your intentions here.

I have very simple question. Why an ailing prisoner isn't allowed to meet his sisters or his personal physicians examine him? No remember we are talking about an ex-PM here. Is there any reason whatsoever that be conjured as to why his sisters or personal physicians cannot meet him? I'd really like to know.
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As said all his rights need to be respected without exception. How much of the PTI drama is true I cannot say given their tendency to make up things. Will he/PTI fans also accept that making fun of K.Nawaz and others was wrong as well? Wishing anyone bad is terrible, whether it is IK or KN or anyone else.
 
JaDed said:
Sports doesn’t matter so much, Nepal routinely gets humiliated in sports but is a nation with pride and inward migration unlike other South Asian nations.
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They are a nation with pride because they have equal representation. Not one community (Punjabi) raping the rest of the country and hoarding all resources and opportunities.
 
Syed1 said:
They are a nation with pride because they have equal representation. Not one community (Punjabi) raping the rest of the country and hoarding all resources and opportunities.
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Stop this Punjabi and community nonsense. Shameful posting. We should not be divisive but united.
 
RizwanT20Champ said:
@psyoptica @IMMY69 @aboveandbeyond @HalBass9 will you condemn this shameful post just like I condemned any post wishing IK ill? I am sure you won't and that is the difference between us.
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What he said, he said it in anger and frustrations.

There are many people including @Suleiman bhai who now think beyond nation states and practice a version of Islam which is kind, pure and progressive and do not feel attached in the old manner to nation state concept.

So don’t judge them but try to understand their viewpoint of the world in which there is justice, law is fairly applied to all and there is cordial relations between India and Pakistan.
 
Bhaijaan said:
What he said, he said it in anger and frustrations.

There are many people including @Suleiman bhai who now think beyond nation states and practice a version of Islam which is kind, pure and progressive and do not feel attached in the old manner to nation state concept.

So don’t judge them but try to understand their viewpoint of the world in which there is justice, law is fairly applied to all and there is cordial relations between India and Pakistan.
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Forgot to mention @Cpt. Rishwat and @KingKhanWC who also share similar progressive views and are good Muslims in the traditional sense.
 
Bhaijaan said:
What he said, he said it in anger and frustrations.

There are many people including @Suleiman bhai who now think beyond nation states and practice a version of Islam which is kind, pure and progressive and do not feel attached in the old manner to nation state concept.

So don’t judge them but try to understand their viewpoint of the world in which there is justice, law is fairly applied to all and there is cordial relations between India and Pakistan.
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Why don't you go and live with him in Canada then? No one asked you to poke your nose here btw.
 
emranabbas said:
The guy you’re defending didn’t he mock Nawaz Sharif himself?

I can show you dozens of videos.

What he sowed for others he is seeping himself

That’s called karma.
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Agree to disagree..

That’s all im going to say. Imran raised funds to build the cancer hospitals, whats has NS and co. done?!?

NS and his supporters think they they are creating reality, the actual reality is much different..

Im not playing this dirty mudslinging of my guy is better than your guy.. i know who i want in my corner and it isnt NS.

Imran Khan is not perfect, far from it, but he stood up to the bullys, NS used lies and deception to get to London, he was perfectly fine..

When the inevitable day comes when Imran Khan is no longer with us, thats when the awaam will really know, then again wouldn’t put it past them.

For all the India bashing here, i think the india governance model will be the best.

As others posters have mentioned previously, on its current course Pakistan is doomed, there is no hope for democracy, the asylum lunatics have carte blanche reign and the government is basically a brothel at this point (excuse my crude language)

Your free to keep your opinions and others are free to have theirs..

Goodnight Pakistan.. you were born imperfect and now are disfigured beyond belief.
 
Some losers here are saying IK have agreed to a deal lol. When you agree to a deal you can move out freely, you let his family and doctors meet him etc. Nothing of that has happend. They are just giving him treatment, that is his right, what deal are these clowns talking about.

These losers are trying to put IK in same basket as their leaders, but forget it. Whole World knows the difference.
 
IAJ said:
Some losers here are saying IK have agreed to a deal lol. When you agree to a deal you can move out freely, you let his family and doctors meet him etc. Nothing of that has happend.
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At some point, Imran will reach breaking point and give in. The mind can only hold on for so long. He is no Gandhi to shun worldly pleasures.
 
IAJ said:
Some losers here are saying IK have agreed to a deal lol. When you agree to a deal you can move out freely, you let his family and doctors meet him etc. Nothing of that has happend. They are just giving him treatment, that is his right, what deal are these clowns talking about.

These losers are trying to put IK in same basket as their leaders, but forget it. Whole World knows the difference.
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We should be pushing for a deal. He can come out and rally supporters, eventually, the same way Sharifs and Bhuttos did in the past. What is the point of his dying in jail? Will it improve Pakistan?
 
guard said:
Agree to disagree..

That’s all im going to say. Imran raised funds to build the cancer hospitals, whats has NS and co. done?!?

NS and his supporters think they they are creating reality, the actual reality is much different..

Im not playing this dirty mudslinging of my guy is better than your guy.. i know who i want in my corner and it isnt NS.

Imran Khan is not perfect, far from it, but he stood up to the bullys, NS used lies and deception to get to London, he was perfectly fine..

When the inevitable day comes when Imran Khan is no longer with us, thats when the awaam will really know, then again wouldn’t put it past them.

For all the India bashing here, i think the india governance model will be the best.

As others posters have mentioned previously, on its current course Pakistan is doomed, there is no hope for democracy, the asylum lunatics have carte blanche reign and the government is basically a brothel at this point (excuse my crude language)

Your free to keep your opinions and others are free to have theirs..

Goodnight Pakistan.. you were born imperfect and now are disfigured beyond belief.
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I pray to God that my offspring turn out to be like Imran Khan. Can @emranabbas pray that his offspring turn out to be like Nawaz Sharif?
 
DeadlyVenom said:
We should be pushing for a deal. He can come out and rally supporters, eventually, the same way Sharifs and Bhuttos did in the past. What is the point of his dying in jail? Will it improve Pakistan?
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I've noticed that most Pakistanis (or perhaps mostly British Pakistanis) want democracy without all the mess that comes with it. They want zero compromise, flawlessness from their leader. We Indians, perhaps because of years of experience with it are a lot more cynical and take for granted some corruptions, compromises, deals with the devil etc. from even politicians we like.

The politics, especially developing country politics, associated with democracy are very messy and ugly I'm afraid. Which is one of the reasons (among many), I believe Pakistanis aren't really ready for democracy yet and some form of hybrid regime is possibly best for the near and medium term future.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
We should be pushing for a deal. He can come out and rally supporters, eventually, the same way Sharifs and Bhuttos did in the past. What is the point of his dying in jail? Will it improve Pakistan?
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Do you really think the core issue will change then?

And who will take the responsibility of all the sufferings of last 3 years? And who will give justice to those who suffered?

Bhai, agay ja kay bhi jawab dena hai.
 
Red-Indian said:
I've noticed that most Pakistanis (or perhaps mostly British Pakistanis) want democracy without all the mess that comes with it. They want zero compromise, flawlessness from their leader. We Indians, perhaps because of years of experience with it are a lot more cynical and take for granted some corruptions, compromises, deals with the devil etc. from even politicians we like.

The politics, especially developing country politics, associated with democracy are very messy and ugly I'm afraid. Which is one of the reasons (among many), I believe Pakistanis aren't really ready for democracy yet and some form of hybrid regime is possibly best for the near and medium term future.
Click to expand...


You are correct, Pakistanis just aren't used to the idea of democracy, probably because they've not really experienced it. British Pakistanis are well aware of how it works, they will try to game it to suit their own needs, but that is the same as every other community. Ironically it is the white Brits who seem to be most disillusioned with democracy these days, hence the fragmentation of the traditional parties and new ones springing up, usually with more radical solutions.
 
Red-Indian said:
I've noticed that most Pakistanis (or perhaps mostly British Pakistanis) want democracy without all the mess that comes with it. They want zero compromise, flawlessness from their leader. We Indians, perhaps because of years of experience with it are a lot more cynical and take for granted some corruptions, compromises, deals with the devil etc. from even politicians we like.

The politics, especially developing country politics, associated with democracy are very messy and ugly I'm afraid. Which is one of the reasons (among many), I believe Pakistanis aren't really ready for democracy yet and some form of hybrid regime is possibly best for the near and medium term future.
Click to expand...
Thats probably the case now, but its not like we have some genetic traits that make us oppose democracy.

You guys have seen some benefits, you've voted for governments you like and got used to the fact that if there is one you dislike, you can vote them out in 4-5 years. You have strong ( relatively) institutions and civil service/bureaucracy. Apart from recently under BJP it seems like you don't have as much exposure to personality cults. The leaders of the past ( vajpayee, Manmohan) seem very credible and then pretty much disappeared after their tenures.

For us we have only seen the corruptions, compromises and deals, with none of the upsides. Where a deal is made and a devil disappears, and other deal is made and that same devil comes back, or perhaps he forms a new party, or perhaps he joins a coalition.

For Pakistanis, the very definition of politics or siyasat is deal-making. A "good" or effective politician is one who can do deals to keep himself in power.
 
IAJ said:
Do you really think the core issue will change then?

And who will take the responsibility of all the sufferings of last 3 years? And who will give justice to those who suffered?

Bhai, agay ja kay bhi jawab dena hai.
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It is what it is brother. This is part of politics. There is more chance of core issues changing with an alive Imran who can perhaps prepare his party, than a dead Imran in jail.

As for your last line I am confused by what you mean brother by agay ja Kay, but if you mean hereafter then obviously we don't what will happen but Imran has behaved with honour and dignity as a politician and there is precedent with doing deals with authoritarians too.

At the very least he can make public arrangements for his succession and strengthen the party with an ideology that can be propogated.
 
Red-Indian said:
I've noticed that most Pakistanis (or perhaps mostly British Pakistanis) want democracy without all the mess that comes with it. They want zero compromise, flawlessness from their leader. We Indians, perhaps because of years of experience with it are a lot more cynical and take for granted some corruptions, compromises, deals with the devil etc. from even politicians we like.

The politics, especially developing country politics, associated with democracy are very messy and ugly I'm afraid. Which is one of the reasons (among many), I believe Pakistanis aren't really ready for democracy yet and some form of hybrid regime is possibly best for the near and medium term future.
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Pakistanis aren't any different from Indians. If democracy can work in India it perhaps has an even better chance of working in Pakistan (less diversity than India). The biggest enemy of democracy is the Pakistani Army who will never want a democratically elected government to flourish. A democratic government would realize that wasting resources on such a large armed forces is pointless and holding back the country. The status quo in Kashmir hasn't changed in 70+ years and is unlikely to change in the future either. It's better to recognize the LOC as the border and end the dispute. This will end the gravy train for the armed forces who get to do ayashi while the common man struggles to put food on the table.


Did you know if a fauji retires and moves to a foreign country this poor country with her limited forex reserves pays that faujis pension to him in USD in their country of choice. On top of that faujis get 2-3 plots of prime land upon retirement that instantly make them multimillionaires. Also if a fauji wants to work after retirement he can literally just walk in and be handed an amazingly lucrative job without any merit.

That is the reason why Pakistan Army will never allow democracy to come.
 
Red-Indian said:
I've noticed that most Pakistanis (or perhaps mostly British Pakistanis) want democracy without all the mess that comes with it. They want zero compromise, flawlessness from their leader. We Indians, perhaps because of years of experience with it are a lot more cynical and take for granted some corruptions, compromises, deals with the devil etc. from even politicians we like.

The politics, especially developing country politics, associated with democracy are very messy and ugly I'm afraid. Which is one of the reasons (among many), I believe Pakistanis aren't really ready for democracy yet and some form of hybrid regime is possibly best for the near and medium term future.
Click to expand...

I remember so many prominent Pak posters on this forum saying a dozen years ago how the military is needed to keep the corrupt political parties in check and that the khakis were the only true patriots. :facepalm:

Those same posters are now cursing the army for putting their beloved Imran in prison lol.
 
RexRex said:
I remember so many prominent Pak posters on this forum saying a dozen years ago how the military is needed to keep the corrupt political parties in check and that the khakis were the only true patriots. :facepalm:

Those same posters are now cursing the army for putting their beloved Imran in prison lol.
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That's because we were all under the false impression that the establishment is non-corrupt and loyal to the country despite some of their failures.


It was eye-opening for most of us when they removed a clean patriot like Imran Khan and imposed a band of thieves on the country (who they themselves cried hoarse about their corruption.) Talk to the common man on the streets and the choice words they use for the establishment only happened after they removed Imran Khan.


Furthermore, people with a working brain analyze and adapt as new information becomes available to them. Those who don't only show a lack of brain power. Even Jinnah was initially opposed to the idea of Pakistan but changed his course in light of new information. Perhaps you should try it too.
 
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Syed1 said:
Pakistanis aren't any different from Indians. If democracy can work in India it perhaps has an even better chance of working in Pakistan (less diversity than India). The biggest enemy of democracy is the Pakistani Army who will never want a democratically elected government to flourish. A democratic government would realize that wasting resources on such a large armed forces is pointless and holding back the country. The status quo in Kashmir hasn't changed in 70+ years and is unlikely to change in the future either. It's better to recognize the LOC as the border and end the dispute. This will end the gravy train for the armed forces who get to do ayashi while the common man struggles to put food on the table.


Did you know if a fauji retires and moves to a foreign country this poor country with her limited forex reserves pays that faujis pension to him in USD in their country of choice. On top of that faujis get 2-3 plots of prime land upon retirement that instantly make them multimillionaires. Also if a fauji wants to work after retirement he can literally just walk in and be handed an amazingly lucrative job without any merit.

That is the reason why Pakistan Army will never allow democracy to come.
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💯
 
RexRex said:
I remember so many prominent Pak posters on this forum saying a dozen years ago how the military is needed to keep the corrupt political parties in check and that the khakis were the only true patriots. :facepalm:

Those same posters are now cursing the army for putting their beloved Imran in prison lol.
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I think that was the case before imran fully Exposed the Establishment of their realities.

His suffering in Solitary Confinement is precisely because of that.
 
I can see a lot of people on here is mentioning Kulsoom Nawaz. Let me speak for myself here then, I totally condemn that Nawaz should have been let out to see his dying wife. Agreed. But the comparison of that incident to what is happening with IK is totally wrong.

If you want to understand what State brutality is when it comes to trauma and its impact on nuerological conditions especially in young child please read up on Ammar Abad Farooq. For context here, the State brutally raided his house multiple times to arrest Abad Farooq (PTI MNA). With all that was witnessed Ammar a 6 or 7 year old boy developed a neurological condition caused extreme distress. Ammar never recovered from his mental unstability and after prolonged fight with mental illness he died months later. His fater Abad Farooq (PTI MNA) was not allowed to even visit his dying child who's death was a direct result of State's brutality. The father was allowed to visit the grave and then taken back to prison from graveyard. This is one of many examples that we have seen from the this regime in the past 3-4 years. None of this will be forgotten. This entire generation and the next generation hate this regime from its core.

What happened to Kulsoom Nawaz was unfortunate but IK nor the government had any involvement in her developing the cancer symptoms. In this case the regime is directly involved in IK developing a clot in his retina blood supply, restricting family and personal physicians so they cannot examine Khan in his current condition and deliberately not providing IK with medical treatment needed at the right time.

If you are to say that IK and the government back then was heartless then you are right. The same way I'm right when I'm saying this regime is hearless and are caught with criminal negligence or deliberate intent to cause physical harm.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
Thats probably the case now, but its not like we have some genetic traits that make us oppose democracy.

You guys have seen some benefits, you've voted for governments you like and got used to the fact that if there is one you dislike, you can vote them out in 4-5 years. You have strong ( relatively) institutions and civil service/bureaucracy. Apart from recently under BJP it seems like you don't have as much exposure to personality cults. The leaders of the past ( vajpayee, Manmohan) seem very credible and then pretty much disappeared after their tenures.

For us we have only seen the corruptions, compromises and deals, with none of the upsides. Where a deal is made and a devil disappears, and other deal is made and that same devil comes back, or perhaps he forms a new party, or perhaps he joins a coalition.

For Pakistanis, the very definition of politics or siyasat is deal-making. A "good" or effective politician is one who can do deals to keep himself in power.
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I don't know. In India, a vote of no-confidence in which legislators are hidden, purchased, kidnapped etc. is more or loss par for the course. There have been so many and democratically elected leaders have been ousted, parties broken. The losing side knows it's beaten and should live to fight another day.

In Pakistan though, it became a national outrage. A lot of Pakistanis admire Imran because of his unwillingness to compromise and sheer bloodymindedness when that is the exactly the kind of thing that doesn't work in a developing country.

India's had it's share of personality cults - Nehru, Indira and now Modi but I don't think we hold even those guys on too high a pedestal. Even the most Modi Bhakts will admit there's big corrupt money flowing. BJP buys votes at the grassroot level and at the legislator level with the best of them. Probably far beyond most of them.

The greatest trick the army has done in Pakistan is convince you that all politicians are irredeemably corrupt and only they are honest which is also why Pakistan adores Imran's apparent incorruptability so earnestly. I'd say Nawaz, Benazir, Zardari et al. are about average corruption level for a developing country. Don't let the army fool you into thinking they're somehow unique and unbearable for Pakistan. The Pakistani definition of 'Siyasat' is probably close to the truth anyway. You're not going to get Jacinda Arderns in a developing country. Pakistan's best hope to get out from the under the boot of the military is some kind of compromise among all the corrupt politicians, not a revolution and not the divide and rule the military loves.
 
RexRex said:
I remember so many prominent Pak posters on this forum saying a dozen years ago how the military is needed to keep the corrupt political parties in check and that the khakis were the only true patriots. :facepalm:

Those same posters are now cursing the army for putting their beloved Imran in prison lol.
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Yeah Pakistanis (and it's not unique) have this obsession with purity and character. Maybe the military played the trick, maybe Imran but somehow they've convinced themselves that if not for the trillions stolen by the corrupt politicians, their country would be a land of milk and honey. So it logically follows that any compromise with these corrupt politicians is impossible.
 
RexRex said:
At some point, Imran will reach breaking point and give in. The mind can only hold on for so long. He is no Gandhi to shun worldly pleasures.
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I am not going to talk about Gandhi as he is totally irrelevant here. But IK has given up on worldly pleasures.

As you know he could have lived a royal life without any difficulties, but he has selected a different path. He is fighting for his ideology.

And we have to remember that he is not a young man, he is soon 74 I believe and everyone would want him out of the prison, but he is not giving in and still fighting.

Wish him all the best and our country also all the best.
 
RizwanT20Champ said:
Brother, have some gherat and respect the men and women who help the people sleep peacefully at night. Easier for you to sit in some faraway land and make abusive posts.
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Lol the poster you qouting is on record here for saying he loves watching army and imran be together and influence decisions.

Now he wishes and celebrates the deaths of martyrs...

He ran away from Pakpassion when ptis janaza was carried out and imran was thrown away like a rag from the national assembly.

Took hum 3 years to recover from that, only to find out, the criminal has one ey left.

Now he cusses the same army that used to do the same few years back only with imran
 
RizwanT20Champ said:
As said all his rights need to be respected without exception. How much of the PTI drama is true I cannot say given their tendency to make up things. Will he/PTI fans also accept that making fun of K.Nawaz and others was wrong as well? Wishing anyone bad is terrible, whether it is IK or KN or anyone else.
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As far as Kulsoom Nawaz is concerned I have made a post # 1168 that I have quoted below too for your reference.
Extra_Cover said:
I can see a lot of people on here is mentioning Kulsoom Nawaz. Let me speak for myself here then, I totally condemn that Nawaz should have been let out to see his dying wife. Agreed. But the comparison of that incident to what is happening with IK is totally wrong.

If you want to understand what State brutality is when it comes to trauma and its impact on nuerological conditions especially in young child please read up on Ammar Abad Farooq. For context here, the State brutally raided his house multiple times to arrest Abad Farooq (PTI MNA). With all that was witnessed Ammar a 6 or 7 year old boy developed a neurological condition caused extreme distress. Ammar never recovered from his mental unstability and after prolonged fight with mental illness he died months later. His fater Abad Farooq (PTI MNA) was not allowed to even visit his dying child who's death was a direct result of State's brutality. The father was allowed to visit the grave and then taken back to prison from graveyard. This is one of many examples that we have seen from the this regime in the past 3-4 years. None of this will be forgotten. This entire generation and the next generation hate this regime from its core.

What happened to Kulsoom Nawaz was unfortunate but IK nor the government had any involvement in her developing the cancer symptoms. In this case the regime is directly involved in IK developing a clot in his retina blood supply, restricting family and personal physicians so they cannot examine Khan in his current condition and deliberately not providing IK with medical treatment needed at the right time.

If you are to say that IK and the government back then was heartless then you are right. The same way I'm right when I'm saying this regime is hearless and are caught with criminal negligence or deliberate intent to cause physical harm.
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You have made another point in your post that PTI has tendency to make drama up. Please do appreciate that PTI, IK family members, IK doctors, etc nobody and I mean nobody has any news about IK whatsoever. There is a total blackout of any news relating to IK. The only news we get are from Govt. officials whom we totally don't trust as Govt. official spokeperson (Pakistan's information minister) a week or so before lied through teeth when he said IK health is totally fine and he had a minor checkup on eye which is about it. A week later we get to know he was totally blinded and with hospital injection he got 15% of eyesight back. When the mouth of the Govt is uncouted liar how can we rely on any information coming out of this mouth then.

This is my entire stance. I really cannot fathom a single reason why this regime would not allow IK sisters and IK physicians to physically examine and visit him? There is absolutely no official reason I can conjure at this point. This sort of information vaccuum then leads to conspiracy theories that Govt. has actually deliberately somehow screwed up IK's health and they don't want the knowledge of that to come out in public.
 
Major said:
80 or 73. Doesnt matter he is old.

We are not talking about a cricketers playing career. We are talkìng about life expectancy.
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PM Modi is 75+ but full of passion for good country as acknowledged by brother @emranabbas who considers Modi ji a far superior democratic leader. One of the reasons why he’s respected among Indian posters for his honesty.
 
Bhaijaan said:
PM Modi is 75+ but full of passion for good country as acknowledged by brother @emranabbas who considers Modi ji a far superior democratic leader. One of the reasons why he’s respected among Indian posters for his honesty.
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Modi is 75plus?

Interesting

We were given lectures by pti fans all these years that imran still trains at this age and is healthy.

Modi jee turns out is more healthier than him
 
Red-Indian said:
I've noticed that most Pakistanis (or perhaps mostly British Pakistanis) want democracy without all the mess that comes with it. They want zero compromise, flawlessness from their leader. We Indians, perhaps because of years of experience with it are a lot more cynical and take for granted some corruptions, compromises, deals with the devil etc. from even politicians we like.

The politics, especially developing country politics, associated with democracy are very messy and ugly I'm afraid. Which is one of the reasons (among many), I believe Pakistanis aren't really ready for democracy yet and some form of hybrid regime is possibly best for the near and medium term future.
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No. Most people advocating for democracy simply want democracy. They are fully aware of its strengths and its flaws, especially within Pakistan’s specific context. So let’s not insult the intelligence of those who are standing up for democratic principles.
 
Major said:
Modi is 75plus?

Interesting

We were given lectures by pti fans all these years that imran still trains at this age and is healthy.

Modi jee turns out is more healthier than him
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Jokes aside, the amount of work and travelling he does even at this age is truly unreal. He’s by far and far the most travelling Indian PM of all time.

I think patience and meditation is his secret. As a young leader he was very reactive but as he grew old and mature in politics, he stopped reacting to minor provocations.
 
RexRex said:
At some point, Imran will reach breaking point and give in. The mind can only hold on for so long. He is no Gandhi to shun worldly pleasures.
Click to expand...

If you are suggesting that a deal will eventually be made, then yes, that is likely, especially when institutions have been reduced to kangaroo institutions. The real question, however, is not whether a deal will happen, but who it will ultimately serve, Imran Khan, or the citizens of Pakistan.
 
Extra_Cover said:
As far as Kulsoom Nawaz is concerned I have made a post # 1168 that I have quoted below too for your reference.


You have made another point in your post that PTI has tendency to make drama up. Please do appreciate that PTI, IK family members, IK doctors, etc nobody and I mean nobody has any news about IK whatsoever. There is a total blackout of any news relating to IK. The only news we get are from Govt. officials whom we totally don't trust as Govt. official spokeperson (Pakistan's information minister) a week or so before lied through teeth when he said IK health is totally fine and he had a minor checkup on eye which is about it. A week later we get to know he was totally blinded and with hospital injection he got 15% of eyesight back. When the mouth of the Govt is uncouted liar how can we rely on any information coming out of this mouth then.

This is my entire stance. I really cannot fathom a single reason why this regime would not allow IK sisters and IK physicians to physically examine and visit him? There is absolutely no official reason I can conjure at this point. This sort of information vaccuum then leads to conspiracy theories that Govt. has actually deliberately somehow screwed up IK's health and they don't want the knowledge of that to come out in public.
Click to expand...
Bro, all I am saying is PTI with IK himself aren't exactly known for being saints when it comes to facts. His sister was speaking Indian language last May and giving interviews to Indian media; his sons are pork eaters and I don't trust anything that comes out from that side. IK's U turns and hypocrisy is well known; his womanizing past, Jewish ex wife, black magic current wife, corruption etc. I can pull out comments from PTI spokespeople at the time when they were claiming Kulsoom deserved what she was getting. We have seen two shocking comments here already with @Syed1 wishing for death of martyrs and @psyoptica wishing for death of anyone who doesn't support IK.

I will say it again - I don't support Zardari or Shariff or any other political party. Supporting political parties is a very backward thing; we need to support and propagate ideas that develop Pakistan and humanity as a whole. By all means criticise the current Government and everyone should be held accountable but this dangerous cozying up to Indian views and speaking Indian language like @Syed1 is borderline treason.
 
Extra_Cover said:
I can see a lot of people on here is mentioning Kulsoom Nawaz. Let me speak for myself here then, I totally condemn that Nawaz should have been let out to see his dying wife. Agreed. But the comparison of that incident to what is happening with IK is totally wrong.

If you want to understand what State brutality is when it comes to trauma and its impact on nuerological conditions especially in young child please read up on Ammar Abad Farooq. For context here, the State brutally raided his house multiple times to arrest Abad Farooq (PTI MNA). With all that was witnessed Ammar a 6 or 7 year old boy developed a neurological condition caused extreme distress. Ammar never recovered from his mental unstability and after prolonged fight with mental illness he died months later. His fater Abad Farooq (PTI MNA) was not allowed to even visit his dying child who's death was a direct result of State's brutality. The father was allowed to visit the grave and then taken back to prison from graveyard. This is one of many examples that we have seen from the this regime in the past 3-4 years. None of this will be forgotten. This entire generation and the next generation hate this regime from its core.

What happened to Kulsoom Nawaz was unfortunate but IK nor the government had any involvement in her developing the cancer symptoms. In this case the regime is directly involved in IK developing a clot in his retina blood supply, restricting family and personal physicians so they cannot examine Khan in his current condition and deliberately not providing IK with medical treatment needed at the right time.

If you are to say that IK and the government back then was heartless then you are right. The same way I'm right when I'm saying this regime is hearless and are caught with criminal negligence or deliberate intent to cause physical harm.
Click to expand...
Well said….

Unfortunately the state establishment machinery is very well oiled and will never allow the public to ever question the status quo and be held to account.

It will feed the awaam misleading misinformation and quash any and every attempt at being held accountable.. in any other place its called another dictatorship

They are basically akin to Aunties and uncles who stayed behind back home and lived off your remittances and now want your childrens inheritance as well, they’ll pull all these shenanigans and blackmail you into believing their truths which are blatant lies to all and sundry..they’ll feed to biryani and pakoras and keep you under their doot and fabricate false narratives just to keep you under their thumb..

This is Pakistan…not how Muhammad Ali Jinnah envisaged it, but how the robbing, thieving, opportunistic goons made it (khaki boys) all in the name of religion..
 
HalBass9 said:
No. Most people advocating for democracy simply want democracy. They are fully aware of its strengths and its flaws, especially within Pakistan’s specific context. So let’s not insult the intelligence of those who are standing up for democratic principles.
Click to expand...
I fear you're too quick to take offence when I mean none. You live in the States and have probably lived there a long while so you've seen democracy with all it's warts.

Pakistan on the other hand has never really experienced democracy (except a couple of brief spurts) so I feel that a lot of folks have an idealistic view of it where politicians need to be 'sadiq and ameen' and that if they get the right leader, everything will get better.

It's not the Pakistani people's fault though you can't completely absolve them of blame. Whether Liaqat Ali Khan would serve as a true democratic leader eventually is debatable but his assassination put paid to any hopes of Pakistan setting on a democratic trajectory and the country has never truly tasted democracy since.
 
RizwanT20Champ said:
Bro, all I am saying is PTI with IK himself aren't exactly known for being saints when it comes to facts. His sister was speaking Indian language last May and giving interviews to Indian media; his sons are pork eaters and I don't trust anything that comes out from that side. IK's U turns and hypocrisy is well known; his womanizing past, Jewish ex wife, black magic current wife, corruption etc. I can pull out comments from PTI spokespeople at the time when they were claiming Kulsoom deserved what she was getting. We have seen two shocking comments here already with @Syed1 wishing for death of martyrs and @psyoptica wishing for death of anyone who doesn't support IK.

I will say it again - I don't support Zardari or Shariff or any other political party. Supporting political parties is a very backward thing; we need to support and propagate ideas that develop Pakistan and humanity as a whole. By all means criticise the current Government and everyone should be held accountable but this dangerous cozying up to Indian views and speaking Indian language like @Syed1 is borderline treason.
Click to expand...
Giving an interview to any news outlet is not a crime. Stealing the people’s mandate is a crime, and supporting dictators is a crime under the Pakistani Constitution.

His sons are not running for any political office in Pakistan. Whether you trust his pork eating sons or not is your personal issue. The majority of people are choosing to believe what they can clearly see, rather than accepting narratives imposed on them.
 
RizwanT20Champ said:
Bro, all I am saying is PTI with IK himself aren't exactly known for being saints when it comes to facts. His sister was speaking Indian language last May and giving interviews to Indian media; his sons are pork eaters and I don't trust anything that comes out from that side. IK's U turns and hypocrisy is well known; his womanizing past, Jewish ex wife, black magic current wife, corruption etc. I can pull out comments from PTI spokespeople at the time when they were claiming Kulsoom deserved what she was getting. We have seen two shocking comments here already with @Syed1 wishing for death of martyrs and @psyoptica wishing for death of anyone who doesn't support IK.

I will say it again - I don't support Zardari or Shariff or any other political party. Supporting political parties is a very backward thing; we need to support and propagate ideas that develop Pakistan and humanity as a whole. By all means criticise the current Government and everyone should be held accountable but this dangerous cozying up to Indian views and speaking Indian language like @Syed1 is borderline treason.
Click to expand...
I can only speak for myself and don't speak for anyone else.

All the reasons you mentioned claiming IK and PTI not being Saints are either refutable or hearsays. Yet within these reasons there is not a legitimate reason for IK to be behind bars and no reason whatsoever for criminal negligence or deliberate cause of harm to be instilled upon IK or his supporters. The claim of corruption you mentioned in your post is a divided opinion with many IK supporters claim no financial corruption and regime claims otherwise. My logic is simple if the guy made good enough wealth during his PM tenure then where is that wealth / asset? Is there bank account affiliated with IK with billions in it? Are there properties or other asset bought by IK during his tenure? There are always 2 ends of any rope, if at one end regime claims financial corruption then at other end why can't this be tanigbly proven? Think about it.

You claim you don't support any political party as that is a backward thing. Do you support creation of Pakistan? If yes, do you support the foundation on which Pakistan was created? If yes, you agree with democracy. If you don't agree with Pakistan's foundations that is a separate topic altogether then.
 
HalBass9 said:
Giving an interview to any news outlet is not a crime. Stealing the people’s mandate is a crime, and supporting dictators is a crime under the Pakistani Constitution.

His sons are not running for any political office in Pakistan. Whether you trust his pork eating sons or not is your personal issue. The majority of people are choosing to believe what they can clearly see, rather than accepting narratives imposed on them.
Click to expand...
In a war like situation speaking to the enemy media and parroting their lines is despicable. The other part of your post is emotional fluff with no substance. Just because some people have a different view doesn't mean it is imposed on them anymore than black lentils is imposed on youths.
 
Red-Indian said:
I fear you're too quick to take offence when I mean none. You live in the States and have probably lived there a long while so you've seen democracy with all it's warts.

Pakistan on the other hand has never really experienced democracy (except a couple of brief spurts) so I feel that a lot of folks have an idealistic view of it where politicians need to be 'sadiq and ameen' and that if they get the right leader, everything will get better.

It's not the Pakistani people's fault though you can't completely absolve them of blame. Whether Liaqat Ali Khan would serve as a true democratic leader eventually is debatable but his assassination put paid to any hopes of Pakistan setting on a democratic trajectory and the country has never truly tasted democracy since.
Click to expand...

Once again, you continue to insult the people of Pakistan. This is the age of the internet, information is in everyone’s hands. The majority of people are fully capable of forming their own opinions. They know Imran Khan is neither “Sadiq” nor “Ameen,” yet they are still demanding a genuine form of democracy. They demonstrated that intention clearly when they went out and cast their votes in the last elections.
 
RizwanT20Champ said:
In a war like situation speaking to the enemy media and parroting their lines is despicable. The other part of your post is emotional fluff with no substance. Just because some people have a different view doesn't mean it is imposed on them anymore than black lentils is imposed on youths.
Click to expand...

War like situation?
 
Extra_Cover said:
I can only speak for myself and don't speak for anyone else.

All the reasons you mentioned claiming IK and PTI not being Saints are either refutable or hearsays. Yet within these reasons there is not a legitimate reason for IK to be behind bars and no reason whatsoever for criminal negligence or deliberate cause of harm to be instilled upon IK or his supporters. The claim of corruption you mentioned in your post is a divided opinion with many IK supporters claim no financial corruption and regime claims otherwise. My logic is simple if the guy made good enough wealth during his PM tenure then where is that wealth / asset? Is there bank account affiliated with IK with billions in it? Are there properties or other asset bought by IK during his tenure? There are always 2 ends of any rope, if at one end regime claims financial corruption then at other end why can't this be tanigbly proven? Think about it.

You claim you don't support any political party as that is a backward thing. Do you support creation of Pakistan? If yes, do you support the foundation on which Pakistan was created? If yes, you agree with democracy. If you don't agree with Pakistan's foundations that is a separate topic altogether then.
Click to expand...
Ofc I agree with creation of Pak and democracy. In an ideal world armed forces should not have as much influence as they do in Pak fully agree. However, Ind threat to us is unique...very few countries face a threat like that..add to that a volatile Afg and Iran...
 
HalBass9 said:
Giving an interview to any news outlet is not a crime. Stealing the people’s mandate is a crime, and supporting dictators is a crime under the Pakistani Constitution.

His sons are not running for any political office in Pakistan. Whether you trust his pork eating sons or not is your personal issue. The majority of people are choosing to believe what they can clearly see, rather than accepting narratives imposed on them.
Click to expand...

Imran Khan is always considered a privileged son of India despite being a Pakistani. He was brave, handsome and honourable. All the Nobel qualities everyone loved about him, as well as Indians but our love was at a different level because of shared roots.

Haters will never understand why Indians keep Imran and Wasim in a special place in their hearts. A place never offered to outsiders.
 
Bhaijaan said:
Imran Khan is always considered a privileged son of India despite being a Pakistani. He was brave, handsome and honourable. All the Nobel qualities everyone loved about him, as well as Indians but our love was at a different level because of shared roots.

Haters will never understand why Indians keep Imran and Wasim in a special place in their hearts. A place never offered to outsiders.
Click to expand...
I understand, and that is precisely why I criticize the BJP/RSS. I want my ancestral homeland to be free from any ideology or cult that fosters division based on religion, caste, or class.
 
Here is an interesting thing I just heard;

One tout journalist made a poll on what people consider as nation’s biggest grief:

1)The loss against India
2)IK’s loss of eye-sight

When I last checked it some 23000 had replied and 92% had answered IK’s eye-problem.

Iska bhi poll wadh gaya, ab regret kar rahi hougi.
 
HalBass9 said:
I understand, and that is precisely why I criticize the BJP/RSS. I want my ancestral homeland to be free from any ideology or cult that fosters division based on religion, caste, or class.
Click to expand...

I respect your feelings brother.
I won’t be insensitive to defend those that have hurt you in whatever way. I must respect your fundamental belief in coexistence.
 
IAJ said:
Here is an interesting thing I just heard;

One tout journalist made a poll on what people consider as nation’s biggest grief:

1)The loss against India
2)IK’s loss of eye-sight

When I last checked it some 23000 had replied and 92% had answered IK’s eye-problem.

Iska bhi poll wadh gaya, ab regret kar rahi hougi.
Click to expand...

Yeah, Imran has only two eyes and there is only one Imran Khan. Whereas Pakistan can lose another 45 years of games against India - Amit and Jay can ensure an endless supply.
 
RizwanT20Champ said:
Bro, all I am saying is PTI with IK himself aren't exactly known for being saints when it comes to facts. His sister was speaking Indian language last May and giving interviews to Indian media; his sons are pork eaters and I don't trust anything that comes out from that side. IK's U turns and hypocrisy is well known; his womanizing past, Jewish ex wife, black magic current wife, corruption etc. I can pull out comments from PTI spokespeople at the time when they were claiming Kulsoom deserved what she was getting. We have seen two shocking comments here already with @Syed1 wishing for death of martyrs and @psyoptica wishing for death of anyone who doesn't support IK.

I will say it again - I don't support Zardari or Shariff or any other political party. Supporting political parties is a very backward thing; we need to support and propagate ideas that develop Pakistan and humanity as a whole. By all means criticise the current Government and everyone should be held accountable but this dangerous cozying up to Indian views and speaking Indian language like @Syed1 is borderline treason.
Click to expand...

You don’t support zardari or sharifs , you were raised by their dirty money
 
Red-Indian said:
I fear you're too quick to take offence when I mean none. You live in the States and have probably lived there a long while so you've seen democracy with all it's warts.

Pakistan on the other hand has never really experienced democracy (except a couple of brief spurts) so I feel that a lot of folks have an idealistic view of it where politicians need to be 'sadiq and ameen' and that if they get the right leader, everything will get better.

It's not the Pakistani people's fault though you can't completely absolve them of blame. Whether Liaqat Ali Khan would serve as a true democratic leader eventually is debatable but his assassination put paid to any hopes of Pakistan setting on a democratic trajectory and the country has never truly tasted democracy since.
Click to expand...
I was in the process of replying to one of your posts but the thread got locked due to bickering and it got lost.

It's very interesting you see this as an outside observer. I've always seen us as more ends justify the means type of people - look at the people we have elected (and re-elected) when elections have happened.

The Sadiq and Ameen stuff usually comes in as a convenient excuse to get someone out of power.
 
Major said:
Modi is 75plus?

Interesting

We were given lectures by pti fans all these years that imran still trains at this age and is healthy.

Modi jee turns out is more healthier than him
Click to expand...
I hope your cowardly bootlicking pays well.

The rupee isn't worth that much but you need to consider your rate.
 
Mohsin Naqvi did more than anyone for PTI founder’s release, says Gandapur

Former Khyber Pakhtunkhwa Chief Minister Ali Amin Gandapur has credited Mohsin Naqvi with playing an unparalleled role in securing the release of Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI) founder Imran Khan, ARY News reported.

Speaking to the media, Ali Amin Gandapur said, “No one worked as tirelessly as Mohsin Naqvi for the PTI founder’s release. He even spoke directly to the Field Marshal, a feat no one else could achieve.” He described Naqvi as the only person capable of confronting senior military leadership on this matter.

Ali Amin Gandapur added that the party’s focus has now shifted to public welfare, stating, “With the PTI founder’s release, we have moved from political struggle to addressing people’s health and well-being. We take responsibility for this progress.”

However, the former minister criticized internal party divisions, warning that PTI’s sit-ins and protests alone will not guarantee Imran Khan’s release.

“There are ill-intentioned elements within our ranks, and no one in PTI currently has the authority to make key decisions. Many are blaming each other instead of working collectively,” Ali Amin Gandapur said.


arynews.tv

Mohsin Naqvi did more than anyone for PTI founder’s release, says Gandapur

Ali Amin Gandapur praises Mohsin Naqvi for his tireless efforts in securing PTI founder Imran Khan's release.
arynews.tv arynews.tv
 
This is now being picked up in international media as well. The silence from Pakistan's embassy in international locations as well as foreign ministry doesn't bode well.

Imran Khan's sons seek visas to visit him in Pakistan | Reuters https://share.google/9i9hLFdSjkyLEZbaZ

Sky News has picked up on it as well with an interview with Zulfi Bukhari. Whilst in Australian Senate this has been raised as well.

Shahbaz is going to be in US this week sitting with Netanyahu for Board of Peace. Let's see if this gets picked in any media interactions there.
 
Imran Khan's doctor not allowed to treat him in jail, spokesman claims

Former Pakistani prime minister Imran Khan has not received adequate medical treatment in prison after suffering partial vision loss in one eye, his spokesman claims.

Speaking to Sky News' The World with Yalda Hakim, Zulfi Bukhari said Mr Khan's personal doctor has not been allowed to examine the imprisoned former leader, who is said to have lost 85% of vision in his right eye.

On Sunday, a "fully equipped ambulance" carrying a team of doctors was sent to the prison, but Mr Bukhari questioned why Mr Khan, who has been in prison since August 2023, was not taken to "an appropriate hospital with the appropriate equipment".

The team of doctors then relayed information to Mr Khan's personal physician, but "this all still remains in hearsay", Mr Bukhari said.

"Why are we getting phone calls and just being told reports? Why is his personal doctor not allowed to be present? Or at the very least, see him now after they've done the check-up? The same goes for any family member," he questioned.

Mr Khan, 73, has been in isolation at the Adiala prison for about 90 days and has not been able to see his family, Mr Bukhari claimed.

"Why is he being kept in secrecy in isolation? And why is this whole procedure being done in this big secret format, which no one else is allowed to take part in?" he said, demanding that Mr Khan's personal physician and one family member be allowed to see him.

'Family not informed of surgery'

In January, the Pakistani government announced Mr Khan underwent a brief procedure at a hospital in Islamabad for his eye condition.

Mr Khan's family or his legal team were never informed of his eye conditions, Mr Bukhari said, adding this was "a basic right for a prisoner".

Pakistan's Supreme Court allowed his lawyer, Salman Safdar, to see him in prison, after which Mr Safdar told the court about Mr Khan's vision loss, resulting in the court ordering a medical assessment by a panel of doctors.

Supporters of Mr Khan's Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf party (PTI) have staged protests in Islamabad and other cities, demanding that the former prime minister be moved from prison to a hospital for specialised treatment for his eye condition.

Cabinet minister Tariq Fazal Chaudhry wrote on X on Monday that a detailed medical examination of Khan was performed inside the prison, and doctors concluded Mr Khan's eyesight had improved and "no major complications have emerged".

Dr Aasim Yusuf, Mr Khan's personal physician, said on X that the team of eye specialists treating Mr Khan had told him about an "improvement" in his eyesight, but he could not confirm or deny this assessment as he has not been allowed to see or examine Mr Khan himself.

'Inhumane to stop family from seeing him'

The Supreme Court also ordered a phone call between Mr Khan and his sons.

Sulaiman and Kasim Khan told Yalda Hakim in December that they had not spoken to their father for months and fear they might never see their father again, as he is being "psychologically tortured" in a "death cell".

They were allowed to speak to him for 20 minutes over the weekend, Mr Bukhari said. Mr Khan's sister, Aleema Khan, wrote on X on Saturday that her brother was "extremely happy" to hear his sons' voices after a long gap.

"I mean, not granting them a visa is, is ridiculous. It's an online system. The basic things are there, whose kids they are, where they were, why they're coming, where they're staying, all of that," Mr Bukhari claimed.

"So denying them a visa to go see their father, who's been in prison and they haven't seen him for probably three odd years, is just inhumane. They haven't outright rejected it, but they keep saying there's some technical issue."

'It is ripping the country apart'

While Mr Khan is in prison, Pakistan was "deteriorating", Mr Bukhari said, "but the focus is just on how do we keep Imran Khan caged away, so no one can see him, no one can hear him, and no one can speak to him, and he should not be able to get anything out in the public".

He said this was "ripping the country apart".

Mr Khan has been in jail since his August 2023 arrest after he was handed a three-year prison term for illegally selling state gifts. In January, he was handed a 14-year sentence in a corruption case, and in December, he was sentenced to 17 years in prison for buying state gifts at a knock-down price.

The former leader was convicted in a string of cases that he says were politically driven following his ousting in a 2022 parliamentary vote.

When asked whether Mr Khan believed that he would be released from jail someday, Mr Bukhari replied: "He would be thinking that he is not only going to come out of jail one day, he is also going to come out and lead the country the way it's supposed to be led one day."

He added he did not think Mr Khan was delusional, as "he's always succeeded in whatever he put his vision towards".

Mr Khan said: "He's always made it, he's always done it against all odds, and I don't see how this is going to be any different."

Sky News has contacted the Pakistani government for comment.

Before launching his political career, Mr Khan was best known as a star of international cricket and for leading Pakistan to Cricket World Cup victory in 1992.

news.sky.com

Imran Khan's doctor not allowed to treat him in jail, spokesman claims

Speaking to Sky News' The World with Yalda Hakim, Zulfi Bukhari said Imran Khan's personal doctor has not been allowed to examine the imprisoned former leader, who is said to have lost 85% of vision in his right eye.
news.sky.com news.sky.com
 
KP has been blocked off and perhaps Kashmir as well. I hope this gains momentum and spreads all across the country. Block the main arteries and send this illegitimate regime packing and put them in prison.
 
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