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Imran Khan vs MS Dhoni vs Ricky Ponting - Who is the better leader?

Robbie

Robbie

First Class Captain
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Jul 22, 2013
Runs
4,930
Imran Khan Vs Dhoni Vs Ponting.... Who is a better leader???
 
I know the OP probably had good intentions, but this will be a troll thread in less than 10 posts.

For me, it's IK, then Pointing, then Dhoni

Simple reason, Dhoni's not that good in tests.

If it were ODI's alone, I'd be tempted to put Dhoni on par with Imran, and Pointing behind them both
 
Without any bias, it's 1) Dhoni 2) Imran 3) Ponting

Dhoni has already achieved far more for India than Imran ever did for Pakistan. All that with a lesser team.
 
Ponting should not even be here, he played with the greatest side of all time, even Mishbah & Afridi could captain that side for victories series after series.... Its purely Imran vs Dhoni, in ODI's it would be Dhoni in Test Imran...
 
Electron said:
Without any bias, it's 1) Dhoni 2) Imran 3) Ponting

Dhoni has already achieved far more for India than Imran ever did for Pakistan. All that with a lesser team.
Click to expand...
Ignorant statement right there. If it was purely on results Ponting would be ahead of all 3 :facepalm:
 
Romali_rotti said:
Ponting should not even be here, he played with the greatest side of all time, even Mishbah & Afridi could captain that side for victories series after series.... Its purely Imran vs Dhoni, in ODI's it would be Dhoni in Test Imran...
Click to expand...
Dhoni shouldn't be there at all in my opinion, he's a rubbish test captain but fantastic in ODI's :msd
 
Imran Khan as Captain:
187 Played

5655 Runs

136 Hs

40.68 Bat Avg

6 100s

318 Wkts

8/60 BB

23.87 Bowl avg


Test matches

1982-1992

48 Played

2408 Runs

136 HS

52.34 BAT avg

187 Wkts

20.26 Bowl Avg


One-Day Internationals

1982-1992

139 Played

3247 Runs

102* Best

34.91 Bat Avg

131 Wkts

4/27 Best

29.01 Bowl AVg

Overall As Captain Win Record...
Played Win Lost Drawn Tie No Result
187 89 67 26 1 4



Dhoni's And Ponting's Coming Soon...
 
I would probably say Imran Khan. He was able to mould a fractious team of a lot of egos and turn it into a cohesive unit that won matches consistently. He was a good tactician on the field too, and led by example, and got the best out of his players.

Hard to split Ponting and Dhoni. I think both had the same challenges - neither are supreme tacticians (Dhoni probably better than Ponting but a bit more defensive). But the underrated thing about both is the fact that they had to keep harmony in a team that had a lot of egos and a lot of ATGs in it - in Ponting's case he had Warne, McGrath, Hayden, Langer, all dominating personalities. He got the best out of his players, they would run through brick walls for him. Dhoni was the same - he has the living god in Tendy, he had blokes like Sehwag after his job, players like Dravid who had been captain in the past, as well as fiery blokes like the MIGHTY AND TALL ISHANT, Kohli, Harbadulkar and Sreesanth. You can argue that the players just did their jobs and made both Dhoni and Ponting's jobs easier, and that Test cricketers don't need to be motivated to do their best, and a donkey could lead them, but that's not always the case. Were that true, then Kevinder would still be captain of England and he would've been responsible as leader for their Ashes wins and their India victories.

Captaincy and leadership is so much more than just setting a field or picking which bowlers to use. That's the tactical on field piece. The leadership piece is about making sure they all synthesize into a whole that is greater than the sum of the parts. Anyone who has led any team in anything, be it work or sport or whatever, knows that's easier said than done. That needs to be done both on AND off the field. That's where I think Clarke, for all his tactical acumen and leadership by example, sometimes struggles. Maybe he struggles to relate to the players or to get the best out of them. If their best wasn't good enough then there's nothing a leader can do. But I feel that some of these players are not performing to their potential, because we see what they CAN do on brief occasions. That's the leadership piece that is still up for debate when we look back at his captaincy.
 
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Kiwi said:
Ignorant statement right there. If it was purely on results Ponting would be ahead of all 3 :facepalm:
Click to expand...

Ponting wouldn't be because of the all-time great team he had. Dhoni has practically been playing with club standard bowlers. To achieve all that takes some doing.

Imran on the other hand had most areas covered as far as team goes.. and still, there isn't much to show in comparison.
 
Robbie said:
Imran Khan as Captain:
187 Played

5655 Runs

136 Hs

40.68 Bat Avg

6 100s

318 Wkts

8/60 BB

23.87 Bowl avg


Test matches

1982-1992

48 Played

2408 Runs

136 HS

52.34 BAT avg

187 Wkts

20.26 Bowl Avg


One-Day Internationals

1982-1992

139 Played

3247 Runs

102* Best

34.91 Bat Avg

131 Wkts

4/27 Best

29.01 Bowl AVg

Overall As Captain Win Record...
Played Win Lost Drawn Tie No Result
187 89 67 26 1 4



Dhoni's And Ponting's Coming Soon...
Click to expand...

Looking forward to this..
 
No point comparing their batting records as they played in different eras and positions... :facepalm:
 
Mind You .... Overall Test +ODIs records are posted here....
 
Ik in test I agree,but in oneday it has to be dhoni,with the kind of bowling both Imran and ponting posses,they were bound to be compatible,with the bowling resources we have,it's quiet astonishing to see the achievements ,in topic Ik might be the best Pakistani captain,but not the best captain in the world,he was amongst them,I would rate Clive Lloyd,Allan border ahead of him,no doubt he inspired the generations in Pakistan and Pakistan become competitive against windies,but the fact was Lloyd made windies side intimidating and consistent,not trying to derail thread,but these two gentleman should have been included,Pakistan has always been exciting side,but they were never consistent,pointing was never a leader to be honest,it was a fruit sown by border,taken care by Taylor and waugh,eaten by ponting,dhoni always has to manage crap like ishant and in case of champions trophy inexperienced batting line up,but he backed them and won it.
 
I would say Dhoni in Tests too. For claims of Imran being the best, he has very small set of achievements under his belt.

Just 1 Test Series win outside the SC from the Imran the Greatest Ever Captain Khan ? Eh... Thats a very poor record.
 
Ponting was a brilliant leader.

Not the greatest tactician but he led from the front and was capable of inspiring his teamates.
 
Kiwi said:
Test cricket and 2 world cups > 1 world cup (dodgy at that).
Click to expand...

Going by your logic IK should be the last. Didn't do much in Test cricket (both Ponting and Dhoni took their teams to #1 rank, what did IK do?). His WC win is the dodgiest of all the captains who ever won a WC. Pak lost to many teams in the RR (including a humiliating loss to arch-rivals India, which started Pak's losing streak against India in WCs - something that's still unbeaten!). Depended on rain-gods to make progress. A very flukey win by all means.

What makes Dhoni's WC win dodgy? Dhoni also a T20 WC and several IPL/Champ League wins.
 
In tests Imran and Ponting are well ahead (way ahead as test cricketers), Imran is even a strong contender for captaining a world XI. In ODI's it is a good competition.
 
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I think Lloyd and border should have been included,Lloyd who after the handing given by Australia created the most intimidating team ever to step in cricket field till now,Imran and sarfaz can get you out ,but boy those westindians can kill you,I mean patterson,Clarke,Roberts,holding,garner and above all Marshall,any of those bowler can end your carrier.
 
eradicator said:
I would say Dhoni in Tests too. For claims of Imran being the best, he has very small set of achievements under his belt.

Just 1 Test Series win outside the SC from the Imran the Greatest Ever Captain Khan ? Eh... Thats a very poor record.
Click to expand...

This blind Imran worshiping reminded me of the following comment from other thread. Makes perfect sense..

GujjarSher said:
Most Indians cannot objectively look at Tendulkar. They have a special relationship with him. Just like many Pakistanis love Imran Khan so much we overlook his flaws. Similarly, Indians will always worship Tendulkar and while they may be more reasonable in assessing other players like Dravid and Laxman, when it comes to Tendulkar there is little to no room for criticism allowed.
Click to expand...
 
Wooster said:
Going by your logic IK should be the last. Didn't do much in Test cricket (both Ponting and Dhoni took their teams to #1 rank, what did IK do?). His WC win is the dodgiest of all the captains who ever won a WC. Pak lost to many teams in the RR (including a humiliating loss to arch-rivals India, which started Pak's losing streak against India in WCs - something that's still unbeaten!). Depended on rain-gods to make progress. A very flukey win by all means.

What makes Dhoni's WC win dodgy? Dhoni also a T20 WC and several IPL/Champ League wins.
Click to expand...
It's not purely based on success or it would probably be Ponting > IK/Dhoni. I factored in other things such as performances as captain and just leadership in general.
 
Ricky Ponting As Captain:

324 Matches

15440 Runs

209 HS

45.54 Bat AVG

41 100s


In Tests As Captain:

77 Played

6542 Runs

209 HS

51.51 BAT Avg

19 100s


ODIs As Captain:


230 Played

8497 Runs

164 HS

42.91 Avg

22 100s


In T20s... He captained in t20s as well so i thought why not???


17 Played

401 Runs

98* Best(What??!!)

28.64 AVg

Overall

220 Won

77 Lost

2 Tied

13 Drawn

12 No Result


Only 13 Draws!!!!... ***????...
 
Last edited:
OZGOD said:
I would probably say Imran Khan. He was able to mould a fractious team of a lot of egos and turn it into a cohesive unit that won matches consistently. He was a good tactician on the field too, and led by example, and got the best out of his players.

Hard to split Ponting and Dhoni. I think both had the same challenges - neither are supreme tacticians (Dhoni probably better than Ponting but a bit more defensive). But the underrated thing about both is the fact that they had to keep harmony in a team that had a lot of egos and a lot of ATGs in it - in Ponting's case he had Warne, McGrath, Hayden, Langer, all dominating personalities. He got the best out of his players, they would run through brick walls for him. Dhoni was the same - he has the living god in Tendy, he had blokes like Sehwag after his job, players like Dravid who had been captain in the past, as well as fiery blokes like the MIGHTY AND TALL ISHANT, Kohli, Harbadulkar and Sreesanth. You can argue that the players just did their jobs and made both Dhoni and Ponting's jobs easier, and that Test cricketers don't need to be motivated to do their best, and a donkey could lead them, but that's not always the case. Were that true, then Kevinder would still be captain of England and he would've been responsible as leader for their Ashes wins and their India victories.

Captaincy and leadership is so much more than just setting a field or picking which bowlers to use. That's the tactical on field piece. The leadership piece is about making sure they all synthesize into a whole that is greater than the sum of the parts. Anyone who has led any team in anything, be it work or sport or whatever, knows that's easier said than done. That needs to be done both on AND off the field. That's where I think Clarke, for all his tactical acumen and leadership by example, sometimes struggles. Maybe he struggles to relate to the players or to get the best out of them. If their best wasn't good enough then there's nothing a leader can do. But I feel that some of these players are not performing to their potential, because we see what they CAN do on brief occasions. That's the leadership piece that is still up for debate when we look back at his captaincy.
Click to expand...

So far the best post in this thread...good analysis OZ bro...
 
This way ahead/by far word is used quiet often here,give the team led by Ik and ponting to dhoni and tell them to lead what he is leading right now,we will see how they handle the situation.
 
Kiwi said:
Nah 8-0 did.
Click to expand...

Good to see you used your head for once instead of your brother's influence.. When was the last time Ponting won a test match in India leading from the front ? Also what is Ponting's record as captian after Warne & Mcgrath left ?
 
Dhoni as a captain has achieved too much in less period of time.
Genious Ponting had 10 superior cricketers with him to achieve huge success.
Imran Khan is too much overrated for his 1 world cup win and his philantrophy in Pakistan

Dhoni > Ponting > Kapil Dev > Imran Khan
 
Romali_rotti said:
Good to see you used your head for once instead of your brother's influence.. When was the last time Ponting won a test match in India leading from the front ? Also what is Ponting's record as captian after Warne & Mcgrath left ?
Click to expand...

Did Ponting win even a single Test match in India as captain ?
 
Chromeuser said:
Dhoni as a captain has achieved too much in less period of time.
Genious Ponting had 10 superior cricketers with him to achieve huge success.
Imran Khan is too much overrated for his 1 world cup win and his philantrophy in Pakistan

Dhoni > Ponting > Kapil Dev > Imran Khan
Click to expand...

Trolling doesn't change reality
 
Imran Khan-Could pull a rabbit out of the hat. He knew how to use his players to their fullest potential. Took a weak and hampered with injuries side to a World Cup victory where his own shoulder had some problems! Was a master at reading a player's mind and thus always was good at field placings. Had an eagle eye for natural and raw talent.
MS Dhoni-Is brilliant in ODIs but the crappiest you can get in Tests. Always invests in good talent.
R.Ponting-I think he was a good captain but he had players who could perform exceptionally in their sleep.
 
Last edited:
MSD as Captain:

230 Played

8416 Runs

224 Best

48.64 Batavg

10 100s

293 Catches

84 Stumpings


In Tests As Captain:


47 Played

2787 Runs

224 HS

44.23 Bat Avg

5 100s


143 Catches

22 Stumpings


In ODIs As Captain::

142 Played

4881 Runs

124 HS

56.10 BATAvg(Legendary!!!!)

130 Catches

54 Stumpings

In T20s As Captain:

41 Played

748 Runs

48* HS(Yuck!!!)

32.52 Bat Avg(Whatt??..)


So Overall Win Loss:


127 Won

79 Lost

4 Tie(Hell!!)

11 Draw

9 No Result
 
Robbie said:
MSD as Captain:

230 Played

8416 Runs

224 Best

48.64 Batavg

10 100s

293 Catches

84 Stumpings


In Tests As Captain:


47 Played

2787 Runs

224 HS

44.23 Bat Avg

5 100s


143 Catches

22 Stumpings


In ODIs As Captain::

142 Played

4881 Runs

124 HS

56.10 BATAvg(Legendary!!!!)

130 Catches

54 Stumpings

In T20s As Captain:

41 Played

748 Runs

48* HS(Yuck!!!)

32.52 Bat Avg(Whatt??..)


So Overall Win Loss:


127 Won

79 Lost

4 Tie(Hell!!)

11 Draw

9 No Result
Click to expand...
No offense but those stats are useless, also batting at 6 and averaging 55 hardly says anything.
 
Kiwi said:
No offense but those stats are useless, also batting at 6 and averaging 55 hardly says anything.
Click to expand...

Why would i take offence...these are MSDs stats not mine...:facepalm:

On Topic:: Why Troll on a good thread...there are many for that particular purpose...
For EX: Sachin Overrated or Don Overrated...or Shameless Ponting.. Cheater Australians..
Or Idiot Indians.. Or Worthless Pakistan etc etc etc... Take trolling elsewhere please a Humble Request to all of you..
 
So PPers anyone would like to recommend any other Captain(s)... Kapil Dev or anyone else??..
 
For me imran , then ponting and then dhoni.The reason i say that is imran always came through for pakistan when they needed their captain the most he lead from the front and was always their to raise the hopes and confidence of the team in tough situations by performing himself with the bat and ball especially in tests.Ponting too was a fighter never gave up and even after the retirement of some australian greats he continued to fight and gave the aussies hope by performing himself at times when it was needed the most.Dhoni has been good but the fact that he failed to motivate the team and goes into hiding everytime india are about to lose indicates that he lacks that ability of leading from the front like imran and ponting.To be quite fair i do not think anyone who isn't an indian would place dhoni ahead of ponting and imran i do not think records or achievements are even relevant.
 
Last edited:
chickenkarhai said:
For me imran , then ponting and then dhoni.The reason i say that is imran always came through for pakistan when they needed their captain the most he lead from the front and was always their to raise the hopes and confidence of the team in tough situations by performing himself with the bat and ball especially in tests.Ponting too was a fighter never gave up and even after the retirement of some australian greats he continued to fight and gave the aussies hope by performing himself at times when it was needed the most.Dhoni has been good but the fact that he failed to motivate the team and goes into hiding everytime india are about to lose indicates that he lacks that ability of leading from the front like imran and ponting.To be quite fair i do not think anyone who isn't an indian would place dhoni ahead of ponting and imran i do not think records or achievements are even relevant.
Click to expand...



.....From where do you get that..???.. Facts..??... Whims..???... Or from a Pakistani Mindset..??
 
Robbie said:
.....From where do you get that..???.. Facts..??... Whims..???... Or from a Pakistani Mindset..??
Click to expand...

By having spent some time watching cricket rather than on spending time on cricinfo going through scorecards and stats.
 
I think Dhoni has been terribly Underrated here... World Cup..World t20... Test No1 ... Champions Trophy.... What else is there to achieve ... probably test wins in AUS and SA thats it!!!!...
 
Kiwi said:
Allan Taylor, Steve Waugh, Mark Taylor and Graeme Smith?
Click to expand...

these two for me, gun captains. Mark Taylor was more of an aggressive and tactical leader. Smith is more mental strength, guts and leading from the front. Always knows how to get the best out of his players.
 
Robbie said:
I think Dhoni has been terribly Underrated here... World Cup..World t20... Test No1 ... Champions Trophy.... What else is there to achieve ... probably test wins in AUS and SA thats it!!!!...
Click to expand...

By that logic ponting is much better than dhoni,imran or any other captain for that matter.
 
Robbie said:
I think Dhoni has been terribly Underrated here... World Cup..World t20... Test No1 ... Champions Trophy.... What else is there to achieve ... probably test wins in AUS and SA thats it!!!!...
Click to expand...
We're not under rating Dhoni the other two are just better. Ponting and Dhoni are very similar but Pontings record in tests and success in ODI puts him ahead of Dhoni, there is no real logical reason in ranking Dhoni ahead of Ponting. You could argue Dhoni being better than Imran in terms of success but that would also move Ponting ahead of Dhoni.
 
Last edited:
Kiwi said:
We're not under rating Imran the other two are just better. Ponting and Imran are very similar but Pontings record in tests and success in ODI puts him ahead of Imran, there is no real logical reason of ranking Imran ahead of Ponting.
Click to expand...

Put Imran for Dhoni there... doesn't change a lot as far as logic goes... does it ?
As I said before, this whole discussion will be full of blind support for Imran. So, expecting a sensible discussion will be asking for a lot. :ik
 
Robbie said:
How!!!!....
Click to expand...

Two consecutive Champions Trophy wins
Two consecutive World Cup wins (MOTM in 2003 final)
Didn't lose a home series in Captain.
Team won test and odi series everywhere under his captaincy.

Won over 100 tests as a player.
 
Electron said:
Put Imran for Dhoni there... doesn't change a lot as far as logic goes... does it ?
As I said before, this whole discussion will be full of blind support for Imran. So, expecting a sensible discussion will be asking for a lot. :ik
Click to expand...
How are Ponting and Imran similar? :facepalm:
 
Kiwi said:
We're not under rating Dhoni the other two are just better. Ponting and Dhoni are very similar but Pontings record in tests and success in ODI puts him ahead of Dhoni, there is no real logical reason of ranking Dhoni ahead of Ponting.
Click to expand...

Here i agree with u!!!... Ponting>Dhoni ....But note Ponting had better players around him....when Aus Greats retired... Team started losing!!!!...On the Other Hand... Dhoni has No bowlers to speak off...And tournaments he has won is phenominal....

And why Imran>Dhoni... Apart from a prejudice that he was a better tactician... he does not have as good a Trophy Cabin as Dhoni has
 
Electron said:
Put Imran for Dhoni there... doesn't change a lot as far as logic goes... does it ?
As I said before, this whole discussion will be full of blind support for Imran. So, expecting a sensible discussion will be asking for a lot. :ik
Click to expand...

Okay then no use in debating further the record says it all Ponting>Every captain to have played the game.And while you think about that Kallis>Sachin as a batsman because he has a better record than sachin.I guess stats and records really are everything?
 
Robbie said:
Here i agree with u!!!... Ponting>Dhoni ....But note Ponting had better players around him....when Aus Greats retired... Team started losing!!!!...On the Other Hand... Dhoni has No bowlers to speak off...And tournaments he has won is phenominal....

And why Imran>Dhoni... Apart from a prejudice that he was a better tactician... he does not have as good a Trophy Cabin as Dhoni has
Click to expand...

Still beat South Africa in South Africa after all the greats retired.
 
Robbie said:
Here i agree with u!!!... Ponting>Dhoni ....But note Ponting had better players around him....when Aus Greats retired... Team started losing!!!!...On the Other Hand... Dhoni has No bowlers to speak off...And tournaments he has won is phenominal....

And why Imran>Dhoni... Apart from a prejudice that he was a better tactician... he does not have as good a Trophy Cabin as Dhoni has
Click to expand...

When you score more than 300 every match you don't need world class bowlers.
 
Kiwi said:
We're not under rating Dhoni the other two are just better. Ponting and Dhoni are very similar but Pontings record in tests and success in ODI puts him ahead of Dhoni, there is no real logical reason in ranking Dhoni ahead of Ponting. You could argue Dhoni being better than Imran in terms of success but that would also move Ponting ahead of Dhoni.
Click to expand...

Edited reply.. but full of contradiction again. Khan saab :ik effect I think.. :P
 
Convict said:
Two consecutive Champions Trophy wins
Two consecutive World Cup wins (MOTM in 2003 final)
Didn't lose a home series in Captain.
Team won test and odi series everywhere under his captaincy.

Won over 100 tests as a player.
Click to expand...

So... Ponting>Dhoni>Imran...is it..???
 
Robbie said:
Test No1???...
Click to expand...

Didn't hold it for very long.

South Africa were briefly world number 1 at some time around 2000 but Australia were better at the time and promptly defeated South Africa soon after.

South Africa is the only team that can claim to be a genuine world number 1 since Australia's decline.
 
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