India has to give up some of its land if it wants Muslims out of India

[srh]

All the actions of Indian government shows that Indian muslims are not welcome in India. Indian government wants to get rid of them from India. Thats the reason for all these actions against them to make their life so miserable that they are forced to migrate.

But problem is there are lot of Indian muslims. Their population is almost same as Pakistan or Bangladesh. Indian government cannot just force Indian muslims to migrate to Pakistan and/or Bangladesh and expect those countries to accommodate the migrants in such huge numbers. Those countries will need more land to accommodate the migrants. So India has to give up some of its land to those countries.

Another option is that India give up some of its land to create a new country instead of giving it to Pakistan and/or Bangladesh. That new country will be run by Indian muslims.

In either case, India has to shrink to take care of Indian muslims problem it keeps flaming.

 

[Justcrazy]

Once Muslims and Christians are out , then they will want to get rid of low caste Hindus as well.

But what you said is absolutely true. Muslim leaders should demand a separate state , this is what is required.

 

[JaDed]

Another option is let Chinese take over India , Pakistan, BD and destroy all religions completely.

 

[gani999]

Other than some exceptional nutjobs, no Hindu wants Muslims or anyone else out of India. Hindus only want pseudo-secularism and minority appeasement to end.

 

[Syed1]

Another option is let Chinese take over India , Pakistan, BD and destroy all religions completely.

Honestly China has the best strategy to handle all these issues that plague Asian countries. Just make people rich enough and they won't even worry about things like this.

 

[Zaz]

I agree with OP

Kashmir
Himanchal Pradesh
Uttarkand
Punjab
Haryana
Up
Gujurat
Rajasthan
Delhi

These should be carved out n become one new country for the muslims of india

 

[BreadPakoda]

Another option is let Chinese take over India , Pakistan, BD and destroy all religions completely.

Pakistan is any way taking over India as per the Ghazwa e Hind prediction.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Other than some exceptional nutjobs, no Hindu wants Muslims or anyone else out of India. Hindus only want pseudo-secularism and minority appeasement to end.

Except Kashmir there is no indian state with muslim majority. So there is not going to be any partition as unlike 1947 they dont have majority in some provinces. Ofcourse pakistanis dream daily of these things.



And anyways muslims were given land in 1947, so they have the option of going there.
Yet you will hardly find any Indian muslim applying for refugee status in pakistan or BD.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Pakistan is any way taking over India as per the Ghazwa e Hind prediction.

Oh yes i forgot.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Pakistan is any way taking over India as per the Ghazwa e Hind prediction.

Before that happens our laal langot brigade will take over Pakistan as per the Akhand Bharat prediction.

 

[Abdullah719]

Before that happens our laal langot brigade will take over Pakistan as per the Akhand Bharat prediction.

This person seems eager.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/indi...trust-chief/story-8JYboUV7ihtpBkEegTveNK.html

After former Pakistani cricketer Danish Kaneria expressed his desire to visit the Ram mandir in Ayodhya, chairman of Sri Ram Janmabhoomi Tirath Kshetra Trust, Mahant Nritya Gopal Das, on Tuesday said that Ram belongs to everyone and that those who wish to visit Ram temple are most welcome.

“Pakistan is a part of Akhand Bharat and Hindus living there are our brothers. If he (Kaneria) wants to visit Ram Mandir and offer prayers, then he is most welcome,” said Nritya Gopal Das.

 

[Varun]

As long as they don't touch the better parts of India south of the Narmada river, the two desi aunties can do whatever they please.

 

[ElRaja]

indian muslims arent united, the ones who believed in a seperate identity chose their side in 1947. the ones who stayed behind chose to do so, what they do or how they are treated shouldn't really be pakistans concern. pakistan would love to have a buffer state between itself and india, but from what ive seen indias muslims couldn't care less abt pakistan or even kashmiri muslims so itll just be a wasted effort eventually.

 

[Rajdeep]

indian muslims arent united, the ones who believed in a seperate identity chose their side in 1947. the ones who stayed behind chose to do so, what they do or how they are treated shouldn't really be pakistans concern. pakistan would love to have a buffer state between itself and india, but from what ive seen indias muslims couldn't care less abt pakistan or even kashmiri muslims so itll just be a wasted effort eventually.

Actually from my experience that is not true. Indian muslims, especially from Northern parts absolutely love and adore both Pakistan and Kashmiris. Given a choice some of them would even prefer Pakistan over India. But they do not want to leave India due to economic reason. If tomorrow Pakistan becomes economically superior than India with better jobs, livelihood and businesses, many would migrate.

 

[gani999]

As long as they don't touch the better parts of India south of the Narmada river, the two desi aunties can do whatever they please.

Too late. Your taxes have already been disappearing into the black hole of the cow belt and will continue to do so.

 

[Slog]

Pakistan is any way taking over India as per the Ghazwa e Hind prediction.

Will it happen before or after Akhand Bharat?

 

[BreadPakoda]

Will it happen before or after Akhand Bharat?

For further details pls contact Zaid Hamid/Sambit Patra.

 

[CricketCartoons]

For further details pls contact Zaid Hamid/Sambit Patra.

Although I support this idea of Partition 2.0, don't want to give up the secular tag which has proved very useful for us. Hindu Rashtra should be on ground, but on paper we must remain a secular democratic republic.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Except Kashmir there is no indian state with muslim majority. So there is not going to be any partition as unlike 1947 they dont have majority in some provinces. Ofcourse pakistanis dream daily of these things.



And anyways muslims were given land in 1947, so they have the option of going there.
Yet you will hardly find any Indian muslim applying for refugee status in pakistan or BD.

Pakistan has zero percent of Uttar Pardesh, Gujarat, Kerala, Tamil Nadu, etc. They are not responsible for even one Muslim in those states. There is no option of going to Pakistan for those Muslims.

So India is stuck with them, whether they like it or not. And if Indians dont want those Muslims, then they need to partition those states. Either way it is not Pakistan's problem.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Actually from my experience that is not true. Indian muslims, especially from Northern parts absolutely love and adore both Pakistan and Kashmiris. Given a choice some of them would even prefer Pakistan over India. But they do not want to leave India due to economic reason. If tomorrow Pakistan becomes economically superior than India with better jobs, livelihood and businesses, many would migrate.

They dont have an option of coming to Pakistan. Pakistan consists of West Punjab, Sindh, Balochistan, Khyber Paktunhwa, Gilgit Baltistan, and Pakistan portion of Jammu.

Why should Pakistan take even one Muslim from Tamil Nadu, Kerala, Bihar, Guarat, when Pakistan has zero percent of those states?

 

[Slog]

They dont have an option of coming to Pakistan. Pakistan consists of West Punjab, Sindh, Balochistan, Khyber Paktunhwa, Gilgit Baltistan, and Pakistan portion of Jammu.

Why should Pakistan take even one Muslim from Tamil Nadu, Kerala, Bihar, Guarat, when Pakistan has zero percent of those states?

Pakistan is natural homeland (if they wish) for North Indian Muslims since they were the ones who supported its creation the most through money, votes and numbers.

Also they haven’t stayed back due to economic reasons lol when Muslims in India do so bad. But they made the decision in 1947 and are now India’s responsibility

 

[CricketCartoons]

They dont have an option of coming to Pakistan. Pakistan consists of West Punjab, Sindh, Balochistan, Khyber Paktunhwa, Gilgit Baltistan, and Pakistan portion of Jammu.

Why should Pakistan take even one Muslim from Tamil Nadu, Kerala, Bihar, Guarat, when Pakistan has zero percent of those states?

After 1971, Pakistan ceased being the artificial country for sub continental muslims, and became the more natural nation of indus valley people and descendants of the muslim elite.

so doesn't make sense why tamil or malayali muslims would spoil the demographic consistency.

I think for now indian muslims should concentrate on areas where they have sizeable numbers and more should settle there, so that they can elect their own corporators, members of assembly and parliament. having muslim administrators for these muslim pockets will give a sense of independence.

Should also work on aligning dalit hindus. If muslims and dalits join hands, no power can stop them from ruling india.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

indian muslims arent united, the ones who believed in a seperate identity chose their side in 1947. the ones who stayed behind chose to do so, what they do or how they are treated shouldn't really be pakistans concern. pakistan would love to have a buffer state between itself and india, but from what ive seen indias muslims couldn't care less abt pakistan or even kashmiri muslims so itll just be a wasted effort eventually.

Muslims in the minority provinces of British India were the biggest supporters of Pakistan. However the creation of Pakistan has turned out to be a disaster for them. Instead of making them safer, it has made them worse off losing 5 Muslim majority provinces.


So there is no way they can express any support for Pakistan, a country which they blame for their problems. And no way can they support Kashmir leaving India, which will make their lives even worse off.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Pakistan is natural homeland (if they wish) for North Indian Muslims since they were the ones who supported its creation the most through money, votes and numbers.

Also they haven’t stayed back due to economic reasons lol when Muslims in India do so bad. But they made the decision in 1947 and are now India’s responsibility

Its not the natural homeland for them. Do you think Sindhi's want to be a minority in Sindh? They can live with the fact that Karachi is Sindhi minority, as it pays the bills for the rest of the province, and they are still the majority in the rest of the province. But no way would they ever accept being a minority in Sindh. This is why the stranded Pakistanis (Biharis could not come to Pakistan).

Neither would any of the other provinces except being made a minority.

 

[Itachi]

I really don't understand the obsession of a few particular overseas Pakistanis (especially from UK and Canada) to take the role of some kind of messiah where as they probably couldn't be further from the reality. The driving force, as most of would have guessed it, is imagination only.

These same Pakistanis try to dictate how things should run in Pakistan, how a Muslim in Pakistan should behave yet, they themselves are enjoying the benefits living in a western world while advocating how life should be in India and Pakistan.

If countries are run by the policy set by these few overseas people, the third world Desi countries would have existed in history books only.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

After 1971, Pakistan ceased being the artificial country for sub continental muslims, and became the more natural nation of indus valley people and descendants of the muslim elite.

There is no Indus Valley people.

And the bulk of the Muslim elite of subcontinent live in India. The heartland of Muslim empires of North India was in Uttar Pardesh. And these elites did not leave. It was the Middle/Upper Middle Class of Muslims who left.

I think for now indian muslims should concentrate on areas where they have sizeable numbers and more should settle there, so that they can elect their own corporators, members of assembly and parliament. having muslim administrators for these muslim pockets will give a sense of independence.

Not a bad idea. Better to be a majority in a few areas, vs a minority everywhere.

Should also work on aligning dalit hindus. If muslims and dalits join hands, no power can stop them from ruling india.

Had Muslims joined hands with low caste Hindus centuries ago, then there would be a Muslim majority in Uttar Pardesh today. I believe that 60% of Uttar Pardesh is Dalit or low caste Hindu. This was an area where Muslims ruled consecutively for 600 years.

So its unlikely that such an alliance will happen. Best option for Dalits is to support Hindu Nationalists, and try to have intermarriage with the other Hindus, so the caste system becomes irrelevant.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Its not the natural homeland for them. Do you think Sindhi's want to be a minority in Sindh? They can live with the fact that Karachi is Sindhi minority, as it pays the bills for the rest of the province, and they are still the majority in the rest of the province. But no way would they ever accept being a minority in Sindh. This is why the stranded Pakistanis (Biharis could not come to Pakistan).

Neither would any of the other provinces except being made a minority.

True. Pakistan is not the natural homeland of muslims from UP/Bihar or anywhere in India (except Indian Punjab and Kashmir).

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

True. Pakistan is not the natural homeland of muslims from UP/Bihar or anywhere in India (except Indian Punjab and Kashmir).

You can also add Memons to that list.

 

[CricketCartoons]

There is no Indus Valley people.

And the bulk of the Muslim elite of subcontinent live in India. The heartland of Muslim empires of North India was in Uttar Pardesh. And these elites did not leave. It was the Middle/Upper Middle Class of Muslims who left.



Not a bad idea. Better to be a majority in a few areas, vs a minority everywhere.



Had Muslims joined hands with low caste Hindus centuries ago, then there would be a Muslim majority in Uttar Pardesh today. I believe that 60% of Uttar Pardesh is Dalit or low caste Hindu. This was an area where Muslims ruled consecutively for 600 years.

So its unlikely that such an alliance will happen. Best option for Dalits is to support Hindu Nationalists, and try to have intermarriage with the other Hindus, so the caste system becomes irrelevant.

Indus Valley People are the descendents of ancient pakistanis. I am not talking about the harappan civilization.

It is suprising that when waves of hindus became muslims, one would expect the dalits would be the first ones to adopt Islam, but it was mostly upper class and backward class (who are still above the pecking order compared to dalits). Seems the sufis who went on doing mass conversions didn't bother about the dalits. Even now the upper class muslim prefers to be friends with the upper class hindu instead of befriending dalits.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Indus Valley People are the descendents of ancient pakistanis. I am not talking about the harappan civilization.

It is suprising that when waves of hindus became muslims, one would expect the dalits would be the first ones to adopt Islam, but it was mostly upper class and backward class (who are still above the pecking order compared to dalits). Seems the sufis who went on doing mass conversions didn't bother about the dalits. Even now the upper class muslim prefers to be friends with the upper class hindu instead of befriending dalits.

The regions that became Muslim majority, West Punjab, Sindh, Kashmir, East Bengal, were all non Hindu. So caste discrimination could not be a reason for conversion.

" Islamisation in India occurred mainly on the far eastern and western ends of the Indo-Gangetic plain, along the margins of both the stronghold of Indo-Muslim rule (the Delhi Doab), and of the heartland of Brahmanical culture (Aryavarta). Since the power of both the Delhi sultanate and Mughals was greatest in the Delhi Doab and weakest at the margins, the “sword” thesis cannot explain the growth of Islam in the margins. The same is true of the “patronage” argument, for the same reason. Similarly, the argument that low-caste Hindus found in Islam an escape from Brahmanical and upper caste oppression is unconvincing, since the greatest movement to Islam occurred in areas where Brahmanical power was weakest."

https://scroll.in/article/769463/we...secrated-through-indias-history-richard-eaton

 

[CricketCartoons]

The regions that became Muslim majority, West Punjab, Sindh, Kashmir, East Bengal, were all non Hindu. So caste discrimination could not be a reason for conversion.

What was the religion prior to those areas becoming muslims? East bengal was all hindu before sufis converted them en masse.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

What was the religion prior to those areas becoming muslims? East bengal was all hindu before sufis converted them en masse.

Buddhist. and other indigenous religions that did not have a caste system.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Buddhist. and other indigenous religions that did not have a caste system.

Yes, Poila Boishakh was a buddhist festival in east bengal which remained bengali muslim's biggest festival. Also the last names of bengali muslims shows their buddhist origin. note to self: do not engage with gharib people.

 

[Itachi]

The regions that became Muslim majority, West Punjab, Sindh, Kashmir, East Bengal, were all non Hindu. So caste discrimination could not be a reason for conversion.

Caste existed even in non hindu areas because it had nothing to do with Hinduism or any religion for that matter in ancient India.

 

[sweep_shot]

Indian Muslims are mostly scattered. That's the issue.

I really wonder why so many Muslims decided to stay in India during partition. They should've picked either East Pakistan or West Pakistan. Economic reason shouldn't have been the excuse.

 

[Varun]

Too late. Your taxes have already been disappearing into the black hole of the cow belt and will continue to do so.

Imagine how much worse they would be without the moneys haha!

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I really don't understand the obsession of a few particular overseas Pakistanis (especially from UK and Canada) to take the role of some kind of messiah where as they probably couldn't be further from the reality. The driving force, as most of would have guessed it, is imagination only.

These same Pakistanis try to dictate how things should run in Pakistan, how a Muslim in Pakistan should behave yet, they themselves are enjoying the benefits living in a western world while advocating how life should be in India and Pakistan.

If countries are run by the policy set by these few overseas people, the third world Desi countries would have existed in history books only.

Was it overseas Pakistanis who voted your Hindutva PM into power? This is an overseas website, if you really don't want to read overseas opinions then just stick to local Indian Whatsapp groups, I can guarantee you will stop having to read overseas Pakistani viewpoints.

 

[Mesozoic]

Pakistanis (few) have to realise that this ain't 1947 anymore. There is not one state in India (except well.... Kashmir) that has a Muslim majority. They're scattered all over the place from Guwahati to Baroda and from Srinagar to Wayanad.

 

[KB]

indian muslims arent united, the ones who believed in a seperate identity chose their side in 1947. the ones who stayed behind chose to do so

I would, however, question what ‘choice’ really meant in the context of the events of partition.

First, on those that migrated. Most of the migration was prompted by the eruption of violence or fear of it. Many thought they would eventually be able to return back to their homes once violence subsided. At least one historian has made the case that the movement is better characterised as ‘displacement’ than ‘migration’. Whatever their national allegiances, for many people their identities were rooted emotionally in the localities where their ancestors had lived and in which they had grown up and lived themselves.

Second, on those that stayed. When partition was agreed, it was not anticipated that there would be mass movement across the borders. In fact, many that supported the Pakistan movement in the provinces where Muslims formed a minority did so in the knowledge that they would remain outside its borders. Some thought the presence of large number of minorities in both states would act as a counter-balance ensuring fair treatment in both countries. Some saw Pakistan as a state with transcendent purpose that would be a civilisational centre for Muslims and therefore carry meaning beyond its borders. Few at the time expected that partition would bring about ‘hard’ borders and two antagonistic states. This included Jinnah, who in March 1947 was considering purchasing Sandow Castle, near Bombay. When the first restrictions on migration came into force in July 1948 – as India implemented an emergency permit system – it came as quite a shock to many.

 

[gani999]

Some saw Pakistan as a state with transcendent purpose that would be a civilisational centre for Muslims and therefore carry meaning beyond its borders. Few at the time expected that partition would bring about ‘hard’ borders and two antagonistic states.This included Jinnah, who in March 1947 was considering purchasing Sandow Castle, near Bombay. When the first restrictions on migration came into force in July 1948 – as India implemented an emergency permit system – it came as quite a shock to many.

Don't know about any Sandow Castle but Mr. Jinnah's bungalow, which he built in 1936 and lived in till 1947, still stands in Mumbai today. It was very dear to him and he even requested Indian Prime Minister Nehru to either keep it unoccupied or lease it out to some European consulate. It is believed by many that Mr. Jinnah had ideas of returning to his favorite home following the partition and living his last days there. Like many, probably even Mr. Jinnah himself never expected that the partition would be such a bloody affair that would end up causing such deep divisions between India and Pakistan, both political and emotional.

The house is locked in a custodial battle between the Government of India and Dina Wadia, Jinnah's daughter, who married a Parsi businessman and remained in India. The Pakistan Government too, has been trying to get ownership of it.

https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/408746-inside-pictures-of-jinnah-house-mumbai

 

[ElRaja]

Muslims in the minority provinces of British India were the biggest supporters of Pakistan. However the creation of Pakistan has turned out to be a disaster for them. Instead of making them safer, it has made them worse off losing 5 Muslim majority provinces.


So there is no way they can express any support for Pakistan, a country which they blame for their problems. And no way can they support Kashmir leaving India, which will make their lives even worse off.

of course they were, and of all pakistanis, those who chose to leave their ancestral homelands thousands of miles away made the greatest sacrifice.

im simply stating my experience of dealing with indian muslims, they are at best are indifferent to pakistan. the latter point u raise if correct, is a symptom of the problem, i.e. no political unity and no influence on politics despite being a huge minority.

I would, however, question what ‘choice’ really meant in the context of the events of partition.

First, on those that migrated. Most of the migration was prompted by the eruption of violence or fear of it. Many thought they would eventually be able to return back to their homes once violence subsided. At least one historian has made the case that the movement is better characterised as ‘displacement’ than ‘migration’. Whatever their national allegiances, for many people their identities were rooted emotionally in the localities where their ancestors had lived and in which they had grown up and lived themselves.

Second, on those that stayed. When partition was agreed, it was not anticipated that there would be mass movement across the borders. In fact, many that supported the Pakistan movement in the provinces where Muslims formed a minority did so in the knowledge that they would remain outside its borders. Some thought the presence of large number of minorities in both states would act as a counter-balance ensuring fair treatment in both countries. Some saw Pakistan as a state with transcendent purpose that would be a civilisational centre for Muslims and therefore carry meaning beyond its borders. Few at the time expected that partition would bring about ‘hard’ borders and two antagonistic states. This included Jinnah, who in March 1947 was considering purchasing Sandow Castle, near Bombay. When the first restrictions on migration came into force in July 1948 – as India implemented an emergency permit system – it came as quite a shock to many.

my point at its core is that for those people who chose to move, regardless of peripheral considerations, the idea of political representation of muslims within india was very very important, so whilst there may be many muslim with political aspirations who chose to stay, the vast majority of those who moved where those who at some level felt a fundamental need to do so. i was making a broad generalisation of the fundamental concept.

 

[KB]

Like many, probably even Mr. Jinnah himself never expected that the partition would be such a bloody affair that would end up causing such deep divisions between India and Pakistan, both political and emotional.

Indeed.

Faisal Devji has an interesting point on this. For Jinnah, he said, the idea was of turning brotherhood into friendship, that is transforming a relationship of blood or intimacy into one of contract or interest. "Jinnah came to be convinced that it was the intimacy between these [Hindu and Muslim] groups that made them vulnerable to hurt from each other and posed the greatest political problem for India." Therefore he sought "to sunder the ties of a cruel brotherhood that bound India’s two great religions together with the hurt of fraternal betrayal, so that a genuine friendship could emerge in its place."

In this reading Jinnah looked at the problem in a very lawyer like fashion. There is the following quote from Akbar Ahmed book on Jinnah from General Ismay, who was the chief of the Viceroy's staff, which perhaps prompted Devji's speculation:

"Mr Jinnah said with the greatest earnestness that once Partition had been decided upon, everyone would know exactly where they were, all troubles would cease, and they would live happily ever after. He quoted me the case of two brothers who hated each other like poison as a result of the portions allotted to them under their father's will. Finally they could bear it no longer and took the case to court. Mr Jinnah defended one of them and the case was fought with the utmost venom. Two years later Mr Jinnah met his client and asked how he was getting on and how was his brother, and he said: ''oh, once the case was decided, we became the greatest friends'. "

 

[from_da_lost_dim3nsion]

All the actions of Indian government shows that Indian muslims are not welcome in India. Indian government wants to get rid of them from India. Thats the reason for all these actions against them to make their life so miserable that they are forced to migrate.

But problem is there are lot of Indian muslims. Their population is almost same as Pakistan or Bangladesh. Indian government cannot just force Indian muslims to migrate to Pakistan and/or Bangladesh and expect those countries to accommodate the migrants in such huge numbers. Those countries will need more land to accommodate the migrants. So India has to give up some of its land to those countries.

Another option is that India give up some of its land to create a new country instead of giving it to Pakistan and/or Bangladesh. That new country will be run by Indian muslims.

In either case, India has to shrink to take care of Indian muslims problem it keeps flaming.

That's where you are wrong . Indian politicians LOVE the fact that muslims are are in india and a minority . Its so much easier for them to blame all their issues on the desh-drohi muslims and keep stealing from its people . Jobs nai hai- Blame the muslims , Chaii mein patti kam- blame the guy with a topi and beard janab. . Us v them works every time !