India-Pakistan World Cup streak vs overall bilateral record

[PukhtoonZalmay88]

If you are a Pak/Indian cricket fan, you must have had this discussion with your padosi friends and it can get pretty heated at times if you are among passionate cricket fans. As a Pakistani, i might be a little biased and i dont mean any disrespect but i fail to understand the logic behind the "its all about the wc wins" argument. I am sure deep down some of our Indian friends dont even believe that. I would love to hear a logical explanation from our Indian friends here about how and why the wc wins trump the overall head to head record.
Please dont turn this thread into a youtube comments section and be respectful to each other. Thanks

 

[mohan11]

11 - zero

 

[rhony]

Unless it's knock out game in WC it doesn't matter much. But it is puzzling that Pakistan having a better team than India for the most part not winning a single WC game. Things might change after CT and I'm firmly backing Pakistan to beat India in 2019. CT win is like that Miandad six. The wounds are deep.

 

[MenInG]

Both are important.

 

[WildSwing]

I would take the streak over any head to head record, I don't even remember most of the kitply cups but I remember every world cup phainty we've handed to pakistan

 

[shaaik]

I would take the streak over any head to head record, I don't even remember most of the kitply cups but I remember every world cup phainty we've handed to pakistan

one won’t remember the phnaity when you are the receiving end of it .. it’s natural ..

 

[Tusker]

one won’t remember the phnaity when you are the receiving end of it .. it’s natural ..

The difference is we have handed far amount of Phainta's in Bilaterals too . Situation is nowhere close to being as thoroughly onesided and stretching 25+ yrs as the WC Phiantas you receive. Bonus points for knocking out the arch rivals from atleast 3 Worldcups.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Kohli will be remembered as the captain under whom the streak was broken. He’s shown time and again that as a captain he cannot handle the pressure.

 

[Deewana]

21-0 (73-52 means 21-0)
mind the gap

 

[SLcric123]

11-0 is bigger because there is a 0 in that.

If it was something like 9-4 , then India's dominance in World Cup won't have been considered bigger enough than Pakistan overall record against India.

Here it is a 11-0 which is a kind off streak. 73-52 isn't some kind of streak.

 

[Send1983]

11-0 is bigger because there is a 0 in that.

If it was something like 9-4 , then India's dominance in World Cup won't have been considered bigger enough than Pakistan overall record against India.

Here it is a 11-0 which is a kind off streak. 73-52 isn't some kind of streak.

Good point. More than WC streak, we have won 1 more WC than our Arch Rivals that shows we have achieved more than them in Odi and about T20 , it's 1 all but our head to head is 7-1. That shows we are clearly better and achieved a lot more in LOI than them. In test, it's pretty even as both teams have not won any series in Aus and S.A.. same number of series win in eng. They won more series in NZ but we won more in WI.

 

[Send1983]

Unless it's knock out game in WC it doesn't matter much. But it is puzzling that Pakistan having a better team than India for the most part not winning a single WC game. Things might change after CT and I'm firmly backing Pakistan to beat India in 2019. CT win is like that Miandad six. The wounds are deep.

They were having better team than us for the most part .....

This is not true anymore. They had better teams only in 80s and 90s. After 2000, it's all India. Similarly 70s and prior, it was pretty even and as per old rankings, India were slightly better those days.

 

[sshakir411]

All Indians have recently been saying the CT win is too old now while they continue to dance to 11-0...a streak made up of decade old wins.

I guess the only WC loss to India that hurt are 07 and 2011...but none of those were phaintys of 180 runs.

The 07 WT20 win was the biggest fluke on planet Earth. That should not even be counted as a WC for India let alone be part of a streak.

 

[austerlitz]

The bilateral record doesnt mean much to us because 75% of those games were played in the dark age of indian cricket with our worst team and your best.Those meaningless series after series in sharjah and toronto.Most of us were barely born then.

The losses to pakistan for me that actually mattered - 99 chennai test and ct17.2006 home series last test.Rest we have won all big matches.World cup victories on the other hand are spread out over all eras and ended pakistan's wc run 3 times (96,2003 and 11).After a while unless it was a memorable cup final(dhaka 97 or natwest 2002) or test(chennai 99,eden 2001) people remember the big matches.And the big matches are always WC.The argument of bilateral record vs wc record is like saying India's easy win over pakistan in group stage of CT was equally as important as pakistan's win in final of CT.

We psychologically broke pakistan's advantage with 2003 centurion when shoaib ran away from bowling 4rth over.After that we have had advantage in general.Its a pity we haven't played much bilaterals since then.

 

[bujhee kom]

Pakistan and India have met 11 times in the 50 over WC?
Or are Indian fans conflating T20s?

 

[Gotham Cronie]

What is really embarrassing for India in regards to the H2H is that since the teams started playing each other in 2004 (when India has been at their best and Pakistan had been at it's lowest), they haven't made any inroads into the deficit. The number of wins by either team is the same.

 

[bujhee kom]

What is the ODI h2h since 2000 and since 2010?

 

[bujhee kom]

What is really embarrassing for India in regards to the H2H is that since the teams started playing each other in 2004 (when India has been at their best and Pakistan had been at it's lowest), they haven't made any inroads into the deficit. The number of wins by either team is the same.

Word?

Then (a) why do Indians claim an era of dominance and
(b) why do Pakistani fans slit wrists?

 

[Gotham Cronie]

Word?

Then (a) why do Indians claim an era of dominance and
(b) why do Pakistani fans slit wrists?

Beats me. They love making up records to address some insecurities I guess.

Since the teams resumed bilateral series,

ODIs: 43
India: 22
Pakistan: 21

So when it comes to H2H: Pakistan's worst era = India's golden era

 

[hadi123]

If I had to be completely balanced, I would say the streak. This is because the streak is more of a psychological issue for Pakistan than the overall h2h record is for India; whenever Pakistan play India in the WC there is the added pressure because of the streak

 

[bujhee kom]

Beats me. They love making up records to address some insecurities I guess.

Since the teams resumed bilateral series,

ODIs: 43
India: 22
Pakistan: 21

So when it comes to H2H: Pakistan's worst era = India's golden era

I'll give Pakistan this then: even in their worst phase as an ODI team they kept apace with India in h2h.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I would of course liked Pakistan to beat India in a World Cup game but for me every game against India is important, beating an enemy nation esp one who is arrogant is great.

Fact is Pakistan have beaten India many more times over the years and beat them in the previous series -0.

Pak team > Indian team

 

[cr7great]

1 wc win =10 bilateral match

 

[PukhtoonZalmay88]

I would take the streak over any head to head record, I don't even remember most of the kitply cups but I remember every world cup phainty we've handed to pakistan

So you are telling me that losing to us in the CT final didnt hurt? Neither did that Miandad six or those 2 afridi sixes?? Itni selective memory?

 

[PukhtoonZalmay88]

What is really embarrassing for India in regards to the H2H is that since the teams started playing each other in 2004 (when India has been at their best and Pakistan had been at it's lowest), they haven't made any inroads into the deficit. The number of wins by either team is the same.

Couldnt have said it better

 

[PukhtoonZalmay88]

They were having better team than us for the most part .....

This is not true anymore. They had better teams only in 80s and 90s. After 2000, it's all India. Similarly 70s and prior, it was pretty even and as per old rankings, India were slightly better those days.

Please check the stats during your "dominant" era

 

[kuskash]

All Indians have recently been saying the CT win is too old now while they continue to dance to 11-0...a streak made up of decade old wins.

I guess the only WC loss to India that hurt are 07 and 2011...but none of those were phaintys of 180 runs.

The 07 WT20 win was the biggest fluke on planet Earth. That should not even be counted as a WC for India let alone be part of a streak.

Anyone would like to take 180-200 runs phainty once than 11-0.

 

[Third_Umpire]

WC matches are a (important) subset of overall matches, so obviously don't have the same legs to stand as does the H2H record. I'd say it's a cool stat for Indian fans that they have gone undefeated in world cups, although I don't even know what all they count in 11-0. As far as I know, 92, 96, 99, 03, 11 and 15 are the 6 WC games we've played, out of which 96, 03 and 11 were the ones that hurt us (92, 99 we went to the final while India went home, and 15 was the first match of the tournament for both sides).

It's an easy choice to make if as a fan you're offered a superior H2H or success in 6-10 games in the WC, the former is clearly more preferable.

 

[Mamoon]

Beats me. They love making up records to address some insecurities I guess.

Since the teams resumed bilateral series,

ODIs: 43
India: 22
Pakistan: 21

So when it comes to H2H: Pakistan's worst era = India's golden era

This doesn’t really tell the full story though.

Firstly, Pakistan’s “worst era” did not start from 2004 - our ODI team uptill 2006-2007 was pretty competitive. In fact, we were ranked number two in ODIs in 2006.

Indian cricket was certainly on the rise at that point, but they hadn’t really leapfrogged Pakistan until the likes of Inzamam, MoYo, Razzaq, Akhtar, Malik (pre 2008 version) etc. retired/declined.

India peaked in ODIs during the 2008-2011 period, and we didn’t play them in that period.

The 2012-2013 season was the perfect time to tour India - their stalwarts were in decline, and the young players had not fully come into their own at that point. England beat them in Tests, and we beat them in ODIs. They got rid of the deadwood after that series and became a top side again, starting with the Champions Trophy.

Since 2013, there have obviously been no bilateral series. So during Pakistan’s “worst era”, i.e. the 2010 era, the only time we faced them in a bilateral series was when India were in transition.

Hence, the qualification that India at their best have not been able to make inroads against Pakistan at their worst doesn’t hold true.

If Pakistan vs India would have played regular bilateral cricket over the last decade or so, there is no doubt that India would have closed the gap in H2H record somewhat.

From 2007 onwards, apart from maybe 2012, they have been consistently the better team over the last 10 years or so, and we have only played two bilateral series in this period.

Yes we beat a Dhoni-less India in the 2014 Asia Cup, but one-off wins can happen - however, I highly doubt that we would have been beaten them in a series in that time period. Quite a few would probably have been one sided affairs as well.

To answer the question of the thread - our superior record outside the World Cup certainly pales in comparison to India’s World Cup streak.

The fact that we have won ZERO matches against India in cricket’s most prized competition is nothing but emphatically embarrassing.

The notion that only XYZ wins matter because of so and so reasons, i.e. India did not win the World Cup either, or they did not dump us out of the tournament etc. appears to be a sad coping mechanism, because the fact is that we have been trying to beat them in a World Cup for 26 years and have failed every single time.

If the shoe was on the other foot - if Pakistan would have had a unbeaten record against India in World Cups, with the latter holding advantage in bilateral ODIs - there is absolutely no way our fans would have entertained the discussion of whether India’s superior bilateral record is worth more than our World Cup streak.

 

[Send1983]

Beats me. They love making up records to address some insecurities I guess.

Since the teams resumed bilateral series,

ODIs: 43
India: 22
Pakistan: 21

So when it comes to H2H: Pakistan's worst era = India's golden era

Those 22 includes WC matches whereas no WC win in your 21. LOL.

 

[Tusker]

Beats me. They love making up records to address some insecurities I guess.

Since the teams resumed bilateral series,

ODIs: 43
India: 22
Pakistan: 21

So when it comes to H2H: Pakistan's worst era = India's golden era

Those 22 includes WC matches whereas no WC win in your 21. LOL.

But but WC's dont matter you see ... therefore Pak > India

 

[Third_Umpire]

This doesn’t really tell the full story though.

Firstly, Pakistan’s “worst era” did not start from 2004 - our ODI team uptill 2006-2007 was pretty competitive. In fact, we were ranked number two in ODIs in 2006.

Indian cricket was certainly on the rise at that point, but they hadn’t really leapfrogged Pakistan until the likes of Inzamam, MoYo, Razzaq, Akhtar, Malik (pre 2008 version) etc. retired/declined.

India peaked in ODIs during the 2008-2011 period, and we didn’t play them in that period.

The 2012-2013 season was the perfect time to tour India - their stalwarts were in decline, and the young players had not fully come into their own at that point. England beat them in Tests, and we beat them in ODIs. They got rid of the deadwood after that series and became a top side again, starting with the Champions Trophy.

Since 2013, there have obviously been no bilateral series. So during Pakistan’s “worst era”, i.e. the 2010 era, the only time we faced them in a bilateral series was when India were in transition.

Hence, the qualification that India at their best have not been able to make inroads against Pakistan at their worst doesn’t hold true.

If Pakistan vs India would have played regular bilateral cricket over the last decade or so, there is no doubt that India would have closed the gap in H2H record somewhat.

From 2007 onwards, apart from maybe 2012, they have been consistently the better team over the last 10 years or so, and we have only played two bilateral series in this period.

Yes we beat a Dhoni-less India in the 2014 Asia Cup, but one-off wins can happen - however, I highly doubt that we would have been beaten them in a series in that time period. Quite a few would probably have been one sided affairs as well.

To answer the question of the thread - our superior record outside the World Cup certainly pales in comparison to India’s World Cup streak.

The fact that we have won ZERO matches against India in cricket’s most prized competition is nothing but emphatically embarrassing.

The notion that only XYZ wins matter because of so and so reasons, i.e. India did not win the World Cup either, or they did not dump us out of the tournament etc. appears to be a sad coping mechanism, because the fact is that we have been trying to beat them in a World Cup for 26 years and have failed every single time.

If the shoe was on the other foot - if Pakistan would have had a unbeaten record against India in World Cups, with the latter holding advantage in bilateral ODIs - there is absolutely no way our fans would have entertained the discussion of whether India’s superior bilateral record is worth more than our World Cup streak.

Disagree with the bolded part only, the rest is a lot of "what ifs" which are hard to agree/disagree with, as are any "what ifs".

WC losses to India of course hurt most if they affect our prospects of winning the WC in a big way. This was true in 96, 03 (maybe?), and 11. Do you really care or even remember that we lost to India in 1992, or 1999? Yes it would be great if we won all WC games, or in fact all games period, but I for one felt the loss in 96, 11 and to some degree 03 much more than the others. This is only for fans who's ultimate goal is to win the World Cup, if you're the type of fan for who the ultimate goal at the World Cup is beating India, then yes you're probably suffering.

That said, and as I mentioned, it's highly desirable to win all games against your arch rivals. So it sucks for us that we didn't win the other 3 WC games. But it sucks for them that they have -20 (or whatever the margin is now) H2H record.

So what if it was Sharjah cup, or Asia cup, or some bilateral series -- do you think India showed up to those games not caring if they won? This is international sport my friend, no one wants to give an inch.

 

[PakLFC]

Even taking in India WC's record we are still ahead. That is the bottom line that we are ahead overall. Baat khatam!

 

[rhony]

India vs Pakistan ODI rivalry is old news. There hasn't been a single nail biter in years. Both games in CT were one sided, WC 2015 was one sided. India has a better rivalry with AUS with close fought games even though the scorelines are typically 4-1 at home. India vs NZ recently was competetive. India vs England is poised to be THE rivalry in the coming years.

 

[kuskash]

Even taking in India WC's record we are still ahead. That is the bottom line that we are ahead overall. Baat khatam!

So bilaterals and CT >>>> WC,right???

 

[kuskash]

Just imagine guys. One CT win and you guys bloat these much, what if Pak were 11-0??? What would you do as a Pak fan???

 

[PakLFC]

So bilaterals and CT >>>> WC,right???

Don't know what you mean. Pak defeated India more times including India's WC wins.

 

[kuskash]

Don't know what you mean. Pak defeated India more times including India's WC wins.

Bhai, you exactly know what I meant, just can't accept it in open.

 

[austerlitz]

Even taking in India WC's record we are still ahead. That is the bottom line that we are ahead overall. Baat khatam!

11-0 ..nuff said.Live with JAMODI consolation.
Refresh memory.

 

[BreadPakoda]

H2H coz
Kitply>World Cup

 

[PakLFC]

Bhai, you exactly know what I meant, just can't accept it in open.

Or perhaps you can't make your point. Mines is very simple that including your WC wins Pak has still defeated you more times. Do you dispute this? What part of my comment do you not understand?

 

[PakLFC]

11-0 ..nuff said.Live with JAMODI consolation.
Refresh memory.

We still defeated you more times then you have us including your WC wins. Does the 200 run defeat in a major final still hurt like crazy? Simple and plain FACTS.

 

[PakLFC]

I can also post video's of the many times Pak crushed India. Last years manhandling and severe phentee still hurts Indian people like it was yesterday. That was the most recent time the two met

 

[Bilal7]

I'll take 80 wins over 8 any day of the week, month and year. Just like I presume, Indians will take Sachin's 50 hundreds over Javed Miandad's 50 in a WC final win.

Besides, it's not like we haven't owned them in tournaments too. The final of the last ever Champions Trophy is iconic and a bigger win than any of India's WC wins, barring Mohali.

 

[PakLFC]

I'll take 80 wins over 8 any day of the week, month and year. Just like I presume, Indians will take Sachin's 50 hundreds over Javed Miandad's 50 in a WC final win.

Besides, it's not like we haven't owned them in tournaments too. The final of the last ever Champions Trophy is iconic and a bigger win than any of India's WC wins, barring Mohali.

They find it very hard to accept that despite their WC wins we have still defeated them more times then they have us. That is Indian people for you, only want to see what they find comfortable not the overall picture.

 

[AamchiMumbaikar]

World cup streak any day.

 

[AssassinatedDevil]

Simple matter of the fact is that if you look at Pakistan and India's head to head record, it's clearly evident that Pakistan has been a a superior team historically. The current Indian team is better than us but it doesn't take a genius to figure out that since the partition, Pakistan has a much better record and has won many more matches against India than it has lost.

 

[Send1983]

I don't mind losing 10 meaningless JAMODIs for a single WC match where whole world would be watching the game.

 

[jnaveen1980]

India pakistan matches have to be taken with a pinch of salt. Especially sharjah ones. Lot of shady things were going on there. Bilateral match results don't hurt much as much as world events. Be it is soccer or cricket. People will talk about world cup results for ages. Anywho Pakistan has a chance to redeem now. Can they pull a surprise like they did in the CT?

 

[www787]

Just to add to the last para - the recent CT Win and the subsequent mass delirium that ensued in Pakistan is evidence of the hysteria and importance of winning big matches. Imagine what might happen if they win a WC match against us ... lolz

In any case this is too sensible a post for the usual suspects to understand and be prepared to be called an Indian and what not

Let’s be honest bias exist on across both side of the border, had India won more matches bilateral and lost every World Cup match then most Indian would be singing different tune.

Value to opinion is given by personal preference and that personal preference has bias due to nationalism on this topic. For some it maybe World Cup and for other it isn’t.

Let me tell you what would have happened had Pakistan won against India, you wouldn’t be bragging about 11-0 or whatever the number is and Pakistani would be bragging about winning a game against India in World Cup.

And, off course, CT matters, beat the fav team to win by 180 runs, number 6th team beating number 1 team in a final in a tournament which was played by the top 8 teams in the world. It isn’t called World Cup but the format was similar to World Cup.

It is quite understandable why Indian would try to de valued this tournament and it has to do with bias. But you would not meet any Pakistani who would try to de value World Cup just because they had never won against India.

And the poster you quoted, well, we all know.

 

[Madplayer]

I would take the streak over any head to head record, I don't even remember most of the kitply cups but I remember every world cup phainty we've handed to pakistan

You would be saying the other thing if you were a Pakistani.

 

[www787]

Just to add to the last para - the recent CT Win and the subsequent mass delirium that ensued in Pakistan is evidence of the hysteria and importance of winning big matches. Imagine what might happen if they win a WC match against us ... lolz

In any case this is too sensible a post for the usual suspects to understand and be prepared to be called an Indian and what not

And, since India’s obsession with numbers and throwing around and trying to counter every argument with, “ we make billions”, we got more money etc, CT Final was the 3rd most watched ICC match.

Now go on with your attempt to de value that tournament. Because it’ll be quite entertaining.

And, what make this theory of OP to think about is preventing Kholi from playing county for the fear of losing money.

 

[PakLFC]

Has India ever defeated Pak in a major 50 over ICC tournament final? No! We beat them by 200 runs last year!! Since Indians like posting old video's so much here in one to remember as well.

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

The difference is we have handed far amount of Phainta's in Bilaterals too . Situation is nowhere close to being as thoroughly onesided and stretching 25+ yrs as the WC Phiantas you receive. Bonus points for knocking out the arch rivals from atleast 3 Worldcups.

Care to comment on Pakistan's record against India in finals?

 

[akki]

I have a question for pakistani fans . If anyone can answr that would be the thread.
We have already thread about 19 june 2019 world cup match between india and pakistan .and many of that started by pakistani posters and many are just even ready to die to buy tickets for that match which is even more than a year ago. Why people are not discussing about asia cup match yet forget kitley and limca cups. Because no match ,i dare to say again no limca shimca cup match can be equivalent to any world cup match between india and pakistan
Yoh would see lakhs of threads opening up near to world cup match between india and pakistan 2019. People from both country dnt even sleep before a world cup match and i dnt think you do the same for limca matches.
Earlier when we were not a strong team ,indian captain and indian public used to say that you beat pakistan in a world cup match and its equivalent to world cup win.

No other match can be equivalent to world cup match ever. Its the aura ,atmosphere and everything which is 100 times more than any other series or match played between two countries.
Finally God can grant wishes pf both countries fans as pakistanis are happy for head to head record and indians for world cup wins. May this continue always till the end of the world.

 

[dhonixi]

Kitply cup team will gloat that champions trophy final everytime, but when it will ask to them which is more important, then answer will be h2h. Lol
Kitply, bang and bang ice cream tea cold drink cup team.

 

[Ab Fan]

World Cup Streak obviously. It describes India's dominance over Pakistan in big world tournaments.

11-0 in WC is simply like a streak similar to Undertaker streak in Wrestlemania which is considered so legendary. If Undertaker would have lost a couple of matches early in Wrestlemania, it wouldn't have been a streak and nobody would have talked about it afterwards.

In a same way, if India were ahead by, say, 9-4 in world tournaments, it won't have been enough to make up for Pakistan's superior bilateral record of 73-52.

However, 11-0 is like a streak/ undefeated in World tournaments and hence this is bigger than Pakistan's superior head to head record.

 

[rhony]

Has India ever defeated Pak in a major 50 over ICC tournament final? No! We beat them by 200 runs last year!! Since Indians like posting old video's so much here in one to remember as well.

Here's a major 50 over ICC tournament final that India won over Pakistan. And guess what, they thrashed Pakistan by 8 wickets and guess what, they did it against the best captain of Pakistan
Imran Khan.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/...benson-&-hedges-world-championship-of-cricket

 

[AamchiMumbaikar]

I have a question for pakistani fans . If anyone can answr that would be the thread.
We have already thread about 19 june 2019 world cup match between india and pakistan .and many of that started by pakistani posters and many are just even ready to die to buy tickets for that match which is even more than a year ago. Why people are not discussing about asia cup match yet forget kitley and limca cups. Because no match ,i dare to say again no limca shimca cup match can be equivalent to any world cup match between india and pakistan
Yoh would see lakhs of threads opening up near to world cup match between india and pakistan 2019. People from both country dnt even sleep before a world cup match and i dnt think you do the same for limca matches.
Earlier when we were not a strong team ,indian captain and indian public used to say that you beat pakistan in a world cup match and its equivalent to world cup win.

No other match can be equivalent to world cup match ever. Its the aura ,atmosphere and everything which is 100 times more than any other series or match played between two countries.
Finally God can grant wishes pf both countries fans as pakistanis are happy for head to head record and indians for world cup wins. May this continue always till the end of the world.

Deep down they want the WC streak to be broken but finding solace in H2H record till that's done.

This is like a player winning against another in ATP 500/ 1000 masters but keeps losing in Grand slam majors of tennis

 

[AamchiMumbaikar]

Sydney
Bangalore
Manchester
Centurion
Durban
Joburg
Mohali
Colombo
Dhaka
Adelaide
Kolkata

Manchester 2019 ???

 

[AamchiMumbaikar]

Champions trophy in cricket/ hockey is like World tour finals in Tennis.. it is big after Majors but will not trump a grand slam match.

Leave H2H in world cups, not able to win even a single WC match is something which most Pakistani's would like to change.

 

[big_gamer007]

This doesn’t really tell the full story though.

Firstly, Pakistan’s “worst era” did not start from 2004 - our ODI team uptill 2006-2007 was pretty competitive. In fact, we were ranked number two in ODIs in 2006.

Indian cricket was certainly on the rise at that point, but they hadn’t really leapfrogged Pakistan until the likes of Inzamam, MoYo, Razzaq, Akhtar, Malik (pre 2008 version) etc. retired/declined.

India peaked in ODIs during the 2008-2011 period, and we didn’t play them in that period.

The 2012-2013 season was the perfect time to tour India - their stalwarts were in decline, and the young players had not fully come into their own at that point. England beat them in Tests, and we beat them in ODIs. They got rid of the deadwood after that series and became a top side again, starting with the Champions Trophy.

Since 2013, there have obviously been no bilateral series. So during Pakistan’s “worst era”, i.e. the 2010 era, the only time we faced them in a bilateral series was when India were in transition.

Hence, the qualification that India at their best have not been able to make inroads against Pakistan at their worst doesn’t hold true.

If Pakistan vs India would have played regular bilateral cricket over the last decade or so, there is no doubt that India would have closed the gap in H2H record somewhat.

From 2007 onwards, apart from maybe 2012, they have been consistently the better team over the last 10 years or so, and we have only played two bilateral series in this period.

Yes we beat a Dhoni-less India in the 2014 Asia Cup, but one-off wins can happen - however, I highly doubt that we would have been beaten them in a series in that time period. Quite a few would probably have been one sided affairs as well.

To answer the question of the thread - our superior record outside the World Cup certainly pales in comparison to India’s World Cup streak.

The fact that we have won ZERO matches against India in cricket’s most prized competition is nothing but emphatically embarrassing.

The notion that only XYZ wins matter because of so and so reasons, i.e. India did not win the World Cup either, or they did not dump us out of the tournament etc. appears to be a sad coping mechanism, because the fact is that we have been trying to beat them in a World Cup for 26 years and have failed every single time.

If the shoe was on the other foot - if Pakistan would have had a unbeaten record against India in World Cups, with the latter holding advantage in bilateral ODIs - there is absolutely no way our fans would have entertained the discussion of whether India’s superior bilateral record is worth more than our World Cup streak.

Very well put, Pakistan capitalised when they had stronger team.. From 1987 till 2002 they won 43 games compared to India’s 22.. Rest of the period it is exactly similar win-loss for both teams.. If India play Pakistan today every year twice in bilaterals India should on paper win 7 out of 10 times so happy would be closer..

Either ways kudos to Pakistani team for capitalising when they could, the H2H is still in their favour and no one can take that away from them.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Pakistan will break the streak this June 16, 2019. But I hope it's not a meaningless group match win, and they go on to achieve something at the World Cup. Just beating India is not really important to Pakistan fans anymore.

 

[Last Monetarist]

I'm immensely proud of our record in bilaterals, as there were some unforgettable memories that will stand the aeons of time: Malik's heroics in Kolkata in 87, Sahara Cup win in 96, Anwar's 194 at Chennai in 97, the tri-series double in 99, and Inzamam's last ball 4 off Tendulkar at Ahmedabad in 05. However, I'd be sorely tempted to exchange all of that for 2 wins at Bangalore and Mohali. They can keep Sydney, Manchester, Centurion, and Adelaide as those were pretty meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Savage]

WC streaks ANYDAY.Not even up for debate.

And Deep down everyone knows that India's WC streak is way way way more iconic than 70-50 h2h record.

 

[kuskash]

Bhai, don't be much arrogant. Someday streak will be broken as it is just a game of cricket. Please do not compare CT to WC.

 

[jnaveen1980]

And, since India’s obsession with numbers and throwing around and trying to counter every argument with, “ we make billions”, we got more money etc, CT Final was the 3rd most watched ICC match.

Now go on with your attempt to de value that tournament. Because it’ll be quite entertaining.

And, what make this theory of OP to think about is preventing Kholi from playing county for the fear of losing money.

India doesn't glorify much about Benson & Hedges tournament where only best of the best played. India beat Pakistan twice convincingly there. Besides in the CT you could say 1-1 as India beat Pakistan in the same tournament before Pakistan did the same to India.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Bhai, don't be much arrogant. Someday streak will be broken as it is just a game of cricket. Please do not compare CT to WC.

Some day it will be broken for sure. It is hard to maintain such a streak so long. Even this in itself is a big achievement.

 

[austerlitz]

We still defeated you more times then you have us including your WC wins. Does the 200 run defeat in a major final still hurt like crazy? Simple and plain FACTS.

We ended your wc run 3 times including your ATG team in 96.We won 2 world cups and that too without rain and dua .I',m not even including t20 wcs.We have won 2 CTs ,you finally won one.Congratz you have equalled the mighty post 2000 west indies.Still remember how we bundled you out for less than 125 in 1985 world series championship final which was the precursor of CT?We have won more asia cups whether it be kohli 183 or bhajji last over sixer of shoaib.Still remember 97 dhaka independence cup final last over win?But i guess we should feel bad about JAMODIS in toronto and sharjah with out worst ever side in the late 80s and 90s.Lol.

 

[mohan11]

Mauka mauka hurts more than anything else. Whole Pakistan triggered by that.

 

[Tusker]

Care to comment on Pakistan's record against India in finals?

India won the 1985 Benson and Hedges Cup and ofcourse the 2007 T20 WC final. Pakistan won the 2017 CT. these are the most important finals that people remember. IF you think Kitply Cup final is the same as these then we cannot have a sensible discussion.

 

[Tusker]

And, since India’s obsession with numbers and throwing around and trying to counter every argument with, “ we make billions”, we got more money etc, CT Final was the 3rd most watched ICC match.

Now go on with your attempt to de value that tournament. Because it’ll be quite entertaining.

And, what make this theory of OP to think about is preventing Kholi from playing county for the fear of losing money.

I never devalued CT nor do I post about how much money BCCI makes. You misunderstanding my post is not my problem. My point was that the CT Win and its aftermath proves why these matches are more important than Bilaterals ( further confirmed by the TRP ratings ) ... unless you want to argue that there is similar celebrations and hysteria after a Bilateral series win Get it ?

 

[Mercurial]

The streak will finally be broken in the 2019 WC

 

[Tusker]

Let’s be honest bias exist on across both side of the border, had India won more matches bilateral and lost every World Cup match then most Indian would be singing different tune.

Value to opinion is given by personal preference and that personal preference has bias due to nationalism on this topic. For some it maybe World Cup and for other it isn’t.

Let me tell you what would have happened had Pakistan won against India, you wouldn’t be bragging about 11-0 or whatever the number is and Pakistani would be bragging about winning a game against India in World Cup.

And, off course, CT matters, beat the fav team to win by 180 runs, number 6th team beating number 1 team in a final in a tournament which was played by the top 8 teams in the world. It isn’t called World Cup but the format was similar to World Cup.

It is quite understandable why Indian would try to de valued this tournament and it has to do with bias. But you would not meet any Pakistani who would try to de value World Cup just because they had never won against India.

And the poster you quoted, well, we all know.

The Worldcup being the premier event in Cricket is not a personal opinion or preference of mine. It is a fact. The sooner you recognize that the Worldcup will always be a far bigger event than anything else - especially the bilaterals the better it will be for you. India has been responsible for Ending Pakistans hopes 3 Times in such worldcups matches. Deal with it .

 

[Third_Umpire]

World Cup Streak obviously. It describes India's dominance over Pakistan in big world tournaments.

11-0 in WC is simply like a streak similar to Undertaker streak in Wrestlemania which is considered so legendary. If Undertaker would have lost a couple of matches early in Wrestlemania, it wouldn't have been a streak and nobody would have talked about it afterwards.

In a same way, if India were ahead by, say, 9-4 in world tournaments, it won't have been enough to make up for Pakistan's superior bilateral record of 73-52.

However, 11-0 is like a streak/ undefeated in World tournaments and hence this is bigger than Pakistan's superior head to head record.

Genuine question: what all is included in 11-0? I thought we have only played 6 WC games, so at best 6-0. I personally don't care for two of those losses (92 and 99), but that's another point.

What are the other 5 that make 11? T20s?

 

[Tusker]

Genuine question: what all is included in 11-0? I thought we have only played 6 WC games, so at best 6-0. I personally don't care for two of those losses (92 and 99), but that's another point.

What are the other 5 that make 11? T20s?

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...ts;trophy=12;trophy=89;type=team;view=innings

yes the 5 T20 World Cup matches (see link above) ... you can pretend that they didnt happen but be rest assured the moment Pakistan win one you will get to hear about it on PP just like the CT 2017.

 

[kuskash]

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...ts;trophy=12;trophy=89;type=team;view=innings

yes the 5 T20 World Cup matches (see link above) ... you can pretend that they didnt happen but be rest assured the moment Pakistan win one you will get to hear about it on PP just like the CT 2017.

Oh yeah, we won CT, disregard everything else.

 

[Ab Fan]

Genuine question: what all is included in 11-0? I thought we have only played 6 WC games, so at best 6-0. I personally don't care for two of those losses (92 and 99), but that's another point.

What are the other 5 that make 11? T20s?

I agree WT20s isn't in same league of World Cup. However it is still the biggest and the only tournament that matters in that particular format. The intensity is high in that tournament too.

So,across both the formats, India and Pakistan have went head-to-head 11 times in the biggest tournament of both formats and India have an undefeatable streak.

 

[Third_Umpire]

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...ts;trophy=12;trophy=89;type=team;view=innings

yes the 5 T20 World Cup matches (see link above) ... you can pretend that they didnt happen but be rest assured the moment Pakistan win one you will get to hear about it on PP just like the CT 2017.

Defensive from the get go - wow! I was genuinely inquiring. 5 T20 matches sure happened, and of course I wish we had won all 5, but to me they don't hold the same weight as ODI WC games and certainly don't contribute much in the attempt to outweigh the overall H2H record.

 

[Third_Umpire]

I agree WT20s isn't in same league of World Cup. However it is still the biggest and the only tournament that matters in that particular format. The intensity is high in that tournament too.

So,across both the formats, India and Pakistan have went head-to-head 11 times in the biggest tournament of both formats and India have an undefeatable streak.

Agreed, it's a good streak and one to be proud of though padding up the 6-0 with 5 T20s and saying that's a more preferable stat to have than overall H2H superiority, may be a tough sell. But, this is all subjective so if one fan base prefers 6-0/11-0 to 72-52 + whatever the test record is, then so be it.

On WT20s, I can't even remember all the India-Pak games like I do in ODI WCs, just remember the 2007 final. All I remember of WT20s is that we reached the final of one (2007), won the next (2009) and saw another shot at it stolen by Michal Hussey (can't remember which year).