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India v England | 1st Test | Rajkot | Nov 9-13, 2016 | Day 4

Need to pick up the rate and make a match of it shomehow

Last 10 overs have had a run rate of 2.5..

England have enough of long line up that either way they will muster up a decent lead
 
I don't think England can win this test.

141 runs ahead.

Even if they score crazy in 1 session tomorrow...bowling us out on 2 sessions here would be hard.

However if England lose quick wickets in search of runs, they will start batting slowly which will speed up the draw process.

Draw written all over this. If only India had bowled a bit better, we might have seen if there was an Indian win possible with a nail biting finish tomorrow.
 
Rayyman said:
Mishra spinning it miles.
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Leggies will always do that. Rashid did too (but he bowled well for most part and only went bad towards the end).

But its about bowling in right areas and turning it consistently.

Not just the odd booming spin.
 
Romali_rotti said:
What a horrible wicket, we need to make a proper wicket rather than this road.....
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Oh a proper wicket - what you mean is make deliberate dust bowls to aid your spinners. And if you win the toss first then virtually no chance for the opossiton.
 
90MPH said:
Oh a proper wicket - what you mean is make deliberate dust bowls to aid your spinners. And if you win the toss first then virtually no chance for the opossiton.
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20 wickets in 4 days is not a proper wicket by any standards.

This doesn't break up which means you don't have the game speeding up later on.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
20 wickets in 4 days is not a proper wicket by any standards.

This doesn't break up which means you don't have the game speeding up later on.
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Wicket is fine

There's been good batting and some lucky breaks and an unexpected partnership. Enough chances created by both sides
 
Slog said:
Wicket is fine

There's been good batting and some lucky breaks and an unexpected partnership. Enough chances created by both sides
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I don't mind this wicket per se. Its great that India gets such wickets so that weaknesses are exposed.

But the issue with this wicket is the turn was slow and its not breaking up. Plus it was flat for 2 days.

Woakes bowled beautifully and went wicketless.

There would be a slow turn wicket elsewhere which would produce results in 4/5 days.

This won't unless one side collapses completely.

Enough chances were created but it didn't stick. Why? Therein lies the answer about the wicket.

---

Maybe another way to look at it is if catches were held and bowling was solid throughout...maybe we could have a result. But that's just a tough wicket anyways.
 
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We have test debuts in 4 more venues in the next 3 months, I hope gujarat never gets another test. No crowd and road like pitches :facepalm:
 
England should bat about 20 overs in the morning T20 style, look to get to 270 and declare.

India needing 270 in 65 overs, England will feel safe.
 
Slog said:
Isn't this Ravindra Jadeja's home ground?
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Yes.

The one where he scored 3 triple hundreds.

The same one where he took 6 5fers consecutively (different series).

Rajkot is either left wing or right wing. It doesn't believe in balance. :))
 
Slog said:
Isn't this Ravindra Jadeja's home ground?
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Yes. It turns in domestic matches. Being the first international test maybe they didn't want a match ending in 3 days so left some grass that didn't dry n soil is still stiff. After Kohli took captaincy pitches are being left to curators and they are preparing whatever according to them is a good wicket.
 
Game is heading to draw now.

England will be happy for their batters getting runs. India would forget this and focus on next game.

We can expect a turner in the next game :srini
 
WhenSultansBowled said:
Game is heading to draw now.

England will be happy for their batters getting runs. India would forget this and focus on next game.

We can expect a turner in the next game :srini
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Yep. It will be a rank turner.

I am already bracing myself for the next round of "India prepared a rank turner cos they didn't do well in flat track" sequence.

Reality is next test is in Vizag which was a rank turner even in ODI against NZ.
 
AamchiMumbaikar said:
Yes. It turns in domestic matches. Being the first international test maybe they didn't want a match ending in 3 days so left some grass that didn't dry n soil is still stiff. After Kohli took captaincy pitches are being left to curators and they are preparing whatever according to them is a good wicket.
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This year Rajkot was flat for Ranji games. I think.

Last year (2015) was when Jaddu wreaked havoc.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Yep. It will be a rank turner.

I am already bracing myself for the next round of "India prepared a rank turner cos they didn't do well in flat track" sequence.

Reality is next test is in Vizag which was a rank turner even in ODI against NZ.
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hahah yeah. That will happen. But there was a recent POTW where the poster highlighted importance of using home conditions. So fair game to India imo if they prepare a turner.

Also, imagine Misbah's pain, he gets tracks like this one in UAE on a regular basis
 
WhenSultansBowled said:
hahah yeah. That will happen. But there was a recent POTW where the poster highlighted importance of using home conditions. So fair game to India imo if they prepare a turner.

Also, imagine Misbah's pain, he gets tracks like this one in UAE on a regular basis
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Yeah I hate UAE pitches.

But felt the pitches in UAE for the Eng and Aus series (barring that 2015 Abu Dhabi track) was fine. Hard to play but result oriented.

The recent UAE pitches for WI were atrocious. 2 solid batting sides and all 3 games were draws. Or wins due to scoreboard pressure only.
 
London_Lahori said:
England should bat about 20 overs in the morning T20 style, look to get to 270 and declare.

India needing 270 in 65 overs, England will feel safe.
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That total is a tease, they'd go for it to; more oppourtunity for the spinners. Cook is defensive though but he got to understand that he's in India and has a decent chance at a rare win. I expect them to bat for the morning sessions entirety and then declare.
 
Heading for a draw unless India collapse spectacularly.

The wicket is actually decent. Yeah it'flat but it has good carry for the pacers, a hint of reverse swing here and there, slow turn from 4th day onwards and bounce for a few deliveries too. In fact, the Indian pacers bowled well on this track and had the chances been taken, maybe the game would've had a different complexion. Indian spinners haven't bowled consistently in the good areas to trouble the English batsmen barring the odd delivery. As far as English bowling is concerned, I thought they bowled as well as they could've really but the Indian batsmen just batted really well despite the huge scoreboard pressure. There have been some criticisms for the pitch even from the English quarters, but I think both sides have too good a batting to collapse here.

Or maybe not...You never know with the Indian batsmen against spin though.:srini
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
I don't think England can win this test.

141 runs ahead.

Even if they score crazy in 1 session tomorrow...bowling us out on 2 sessions here would be hard.

However if England lose quick wickets in search of runs, they will start batting slowly which will speed up the draw process.

Draw written all over this. If only India had bowled a bit better, we might have seen if there was an Indian win possible with a nail biting finish tomorrow.
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If only cook had held onto that simple catch of shami the lead now would be 220 and 375 by lunch and it would give england a chance to really push for 62 overs with india having nowhere to go.
 
Abdullah said:
If only cook had held onto that simple catch of shami the lead now would be 220 and 375 by lunch and it would give england a chance to really push for 62 overs with india having nowhere to go.
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Retrospectively speaking, it wouldn't have mattered.

That drop cost only 20 runs and given Eng a couple more overs to bat.

India have to play out 2 sessions to get a draw and in this pitch, bowling us out in 2 sessions would be incredibly hard unless we collapse.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
India have to play out 2 sessions to get a draw and in this pitch, bowling us out in 2 sessions would be incredibly hard unless we collapse.
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Lol Ofcourse it would be a collapse if you are getting bowled out in one or under 2 sessions
 
People who are dreaming of a result must wake up.

This is a terrible pitch. England need more than a day to get all 10 Indian wickets in2nd innings.

If they give 270 target in 65overs, India can chase that. Outfield is lightning quick and ball is coming nicely on to the bat.

With Kohli in the side, cook will never declare like that. He would want at least 350 to be safe.

It's a pathetic draw.

Hope India creates a Bangla like pitch where it turns from Day-1. That way both teams will have have nothing to complain.

England got a dream pitch in Rajkot. Enough of Athidi Devo Bhava attitude.
 
Slog said:
Lol Ofcourse it would be a collapse if you are getting bowled out in one or under 2 sessions
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In this context, I meant collapse as in us throwing away the wickets.

England need time to prise out 10 wickets which they ain't gonna get.
 
This would have been a great Test pitch if it had broken up a bit more today making 200 a par score in the 2nd Innings. It hasn't done that so will have to go down as a below average. Of course, it can still break up more tomorrow resulting in an English win but looks unlikely. For Test matches between 2 evenly matched teams with long batting lineups there needs to be more spice in the pitch. Batathons are the last thing Test cricket needs.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Retrospectively speaking, it wouldn't have mattered.

That drop cost only 20 runs and given Eng a couple more overs to bat.

India have to play out 2 sessions to get a draw and in this pitch, bowling us out in 2 sessions would be incredibly hard unless we collapse.
Click to expand...

Off course it mattered. Lead could have been 220 now and england can press from the get go 2maw.
Now they cant.
Its always possible to bowl a side out on day in 65 overs. Jusr need early luck ti build the pressure.
New ball hitting a crack and taking off, if you find yourself 10-2 in 4 overs, and ashwin is your number 6.

But now england will not have 62-65 overs because of the 50 run swing on that drop
 
anindo said:
This would have been a great Test pitch if it had broken up a bit more today making 200 a par score in the 2nd Innings. It hasn't done that so will have to go down as a below average. Of course, it can still break up more tomorrow resulting in an English win but looks unlikely. For Test matches between 2 evenly matched teams with long batting lineups there needs to be more spice in the pitch. Batathons are the last thing Test cricket needs.
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I think its been a decent wicket. Good batting by both teams to be honest
 
I think england may bat for 75 overs to put miles in the indian bowlers legs.
I would still mix the order up 2maw to keep india on their toes, thinking a declaration is coming
 
Abdullah said:
Off course it mattered. Lead could have been 220 now and england can press from the get go 2maw.
Now they cant.
Its always possible to bowl a side out on day in 65 overs. Jusr need early luck ti build the pressure.
New ball hitting a crack and taking off, if you find yourself 10-2 in 4 overs, and ashwin is your number 6.

But now england will not have 62-65 overs because of the 50 run swing on that drop
Click to expand...

How 220?

India got out in 3-4 overs after that drop and scored 20-30 odd runs.

England would have scored 50 runs in those 4 overs?
 
Abdullah said:
I think its been a decent wicket. Good batting by both teams to be honest
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Not even close to a decent wicket.

Just a week ago, England collapsed on a turner to a debutant Bangla spinner. I refuse to believe that this England team has improved so much to play spin well.

It's the pitch which is offering little turn and that too the turn is slow. Lots of time for batsman to adjust.

This is a T20wicket. Not a Test match wicket.

Runs on this pitch should be market with an asterisk.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
How 220?

India got out in 3-4 overs after that drop and scored 20-30 odd runs.

England would have scored 50 runs in those 4 overs?
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India played 6 overs after the drop adding 28 runs. Assuming the catch was taken and England too scored 28 runs in the extra 6 overs, the lead would currently be 219. Elementary my dear 'sensible' :)
 
Abdullah said:
Off course it mattered. Lead could have been 220 now and england can press from the get go 2maw.
Now they cant.
Its always possible to bowl a side out on day in 65 overs. Jusr need early luck ti build the pressure.
New ball hitting a crack and taking off, if you find yourself 10-2 in 4 overs, and ashwin is your number 6.

But now england will not have 62-65 overs because of the 50 run swing on that drop
Click to expand...

Yeah but if India had held to their 7 catches, England probably wouldn't have reached 500 in the first place.

Coulda shoulda don't matter..
 
troodon said:
Not even close to a decent wicket.

Just a week ago, England collapsed on a turner to a debutant Bangla spinner. I refuse to believe that this England team has improved so much to play spin well.

It's the pitch which is offering little turn and that too the turn is slow. Lots of time for batsman to adjust.

This is a T20wicket. Not a Test match wicket.

Runs on this pitch should be market with an asterisk.
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Its ok bro. You can't convince everyone. Different perceptions. This doesn't look like a patta so people may feel its a good pitch. Appearances can be deceptive.

But its not that bad a pitch that runs here are useless. Haha.

To be fair, if Swann and Monty were there, we could be staring at 0-1 now due to losing toss and leaking 550 instead of 450.

What's really concerning is how our spinners (bar Jaddu in first innings) bowled.

I just hope its an odd bad game rather than a reflection of what's about to come.

I have a feeling that tomorrow they will find the radar and cause some troubles. Already saw Ash, Mishy and Jaddu get it right towards the end.
 
I wonder if England decide to bat long and tire out the Indian bowlers for the 2nd test if a result isn't likely..
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Its ok bro. You can't convince everyone. Different perceptions. This doesn't look like a patta so people may feel its a good pitch. Appearances can be deceptive.

But its not that bad a pitch that runs here are useless. Haha.

To be fair, if Swann and Monty were there, we could be staring at 0-1 now due to losing toss and leaking 550 instead of 450.

What's really concerning is how our spinners (bar Jaddu in first innings) bowled.

I just hope its an odd bad game rather than a reflection of what's about to come.

I have a feeling that tomorrow they will find the radar and cause some troubles. Already saw Ash, Mishy and Jaddu get it right towards the end.
Click to expand...

The pitch reminds me of a West Indian pitch sans their horrible outfield.
 
Adijazz1706 said:
India played 6 overs after the drop adding 28 runs. Assuming the catch was taken and England too scored 28 runs in the extra 6 overs, the lead would currently be 219. Elementary my dear 'sensible' :)
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Oh..got my numbers wrong.

You are right.

Fair enough.
 
street cricketer said:
The pitch reminds me of a West Indian pitch sans their horrible outfield.
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Well Cook's edge didn't carry but dunno if its that horrible.

I think if you bowl well, you can slowly prise out wickets. Today Ashwin troubled both bats when he landed it right. Could have got both if he maintained it. Or may not but atleast we would know for sure about the pitch then. When you bowl bad, dunno how much pitch can be blamed.

But then if I think about it, majority of Indian wickets were due to tiredness/thrown away/fluke (Vijay, Kohli, Ashwin, Saha). Gambo's hack wicket doesn't count. :))
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
20 wickets in 4 days is not a proper wicket by any standards.

This doesn't break up which means you don't have the game speeding up later on.
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30 if you include dropped chances.Its not a bad wicket.Still all 3 results are possible going into the 5th day
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Well Cook's edge didn't carry but dunno if its that horrible.

I think if you bowl well, you can slowly prise out wickets. Today Ashwin troubled both bats when he landed it right. Could have got both if he maintained it. Or may not but atleast we would know for sure about the pitch then. When you bowl bad, dunno how much pitch can be blamed.

But then if I think about it, majority of Indian wickets were due to tiredness/thrown away/fluke (Vijay, Kohli, Ashwin, Saha). Gambo's hack wicket doesn't count. :))
Click to expand...

Was referring to the horrible outfields in the carribean..
 
Saurav said:
30 if you include dropped chances.Its not a bad wicket.Still all 3 results are possible going into the 5th day
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Not a proper wicket either.

All 3 results look possible now.

Proper batting by both sides and it will look like a boring draw.

What is to say if catches were taken, England wouldn't have scored big in the 2nd dig and India would have been fighting to save the test with England trying hard on this pitch.

When you look at the test from the current frame of reference, it will appear one way.

Go back or ahead in time and do the permutation-combinations and it will look different.

In the domestics of the past, we have had tons of turners that were high scoring draws. One of the misconceptions is that turn/swing/seam means good track. Not really.

This track had a bit of seam too. Stokes got swing too. There was reverse swing too. There was bounce too. There is turn.

By that reference, this is the most awesome sporting track out there.

But the scorecard looks different cos individual components don't make something good or bad. Maybe the zip quotient is not there or something else. Its not a patta but not a proper track either.

2 good batting sides will draw here 9/10 times.
 
RA as I believe is a akhada bowler. He is not as good as the akhada pitch makes him. That's why I rate him under Yasir.
 
England with 10 wkt intact should force a win. No way goes for a draw. This is their best chance in the series as other pitches would be rank turner for sure after this match to give the 'akhada bowler' edge.
 
eng should press for a win,this kind of wicket on a foreign land is a dream for any visiting team
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Not a proper wicket either.

All 3 results look possible now.

Proper batting by both sides and it will look like a boring draw.

What is to say if catches were taken, England wouldn't have scored big in the 2nd dig and India would have been fighting to save the test with England trying hard on this pitch.

When you look at the test from the current frame of reference, it will appear one way.

Go back or ahead in time and do the permutation-combinations and it will look different.

In the domestics of the past, we have had tons of turners that were high scoring draws. One of the misconceptions is that turn/swing/seam means good track. Not really.

This track had a bit of seam too. Stokes got swing too. There was reverse swing too. There was bounce too. There is turn.

By that reference, this is the most awesome sporting track out there.

But the scorecard looks different cos individual components don't make something good or bad. Maybe the zip quotient is not there or something else. Its not a patta but not a proper track either.

2 good batting sides will draw here 9/10 times.
Click to expand...

Ur not accounting for the fact that pressure does funny things.
This is not as good as the edgbaston track where pak blew it (comparing day 5)
 
Why ppers think that all results are possible? I don't think that Eng is going to declare so quickly to give India a chance.
 
Buffet said:
Why ppers think that all results are possible? I don't think that Eng is going to declare so quickly to give India a chance.
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They will try to slog ideally,so if India bowls well there can be a collapse.Unlikely but possible
 
Saurav said:
They will try to slog ideally,so if India bowls well there can be a collapse.Unlikely but possible
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They are not going to keep slogging if they lose 3-4 quick wickets. They bat deep and based on how match has gone so far, I don't see Eng getting bowled out that cheaply.
 
England will bat until the Lunch at least and add some 125 runs and then declare, leaving the Indians close to 300 runs. Not possible to score 300 runs in 2 sessions on a 5th day track and their intentions will be very clear in the first few overs. If the intentions are to tuk tuk and and draw the match, England should attack with close in fielders to pick up wickets. Won't be easy ... but can happen !!!!!
 
Abdullah said:
Ur not accounting for the fact that pressure does funny things.
This is not as good as the edgbaston track where pak blew it (comparing day 5)
Click to expand...

Yeah...pressure is a component but doubt India will be bowled out in 2 sessions even with pressure on this pitch.

Buffet said:
Why ppers think that all results are possible? I don't think that Eng is going to declare so quickly to give India a chance.
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Indian win is out of question. Can't see us winning unless Ash-Jaddu do some insane magic on this pitch which they are not likely to do going by the way they are bowling.

England ain't stupid to give us a chaseable target first match of a 5 match series.

So it will mostly come down to India having to survive 2 sessions.
 
Drawn game it seems, not been that entertaining a game. Pitch is fine and good for tests. Just good batting by both sides.
 
Hasan123 said:
Drawn game it seems, not been that entertaining a game. Pitch is fine and good for tests. Just good batting by both sides.
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Hypothetical question: Let's say we get the same pitch for 5 tests and the series reads 0-0 in the end.

Would it still be a series with sporting great pitches which was 0-0 bcos of some incredible batting? :bm
 
Hasan123 said:
Drawn game it seems, not been that entertaining a game. Pitch is fine and good for tests. Just good batting by both sides.
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Draw seems likely but ENG will be looking to get to that 300 mark and then declare so that IND require approx 4.5-5 RPO to win. ENG could put IND in 2 minds whether to play for draw or chase. Both scenarios favour ENG unless they fold before 270 which is rather unlikely considering their batting depth.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
England ain't stupid to give us a chaseable target first match of a 5 match series.

So it will mostly come down to India having to survive 2 sessions.
Click to expand...

That's how I see it as well. Eng can win if India collapses otherwise it will be a draw. I see very little chance of Eng not scoring enough to take the game out of India. Eng has 10 wickets and they bat long.

Think about it this way. In 4 day, we have seen 20 wickets. One more day is left. Yes, it's 5th day but Eng is not in trouble so far and only 90 overs are left.
 
I wouldn't feel safe just yet. England just need five good deliveries to get into India's tail and they will likely have 60 overs + the half hour of 'extra-time' to do this.

The biggest question is if Cook is brave enough to ask his batters to take the lead to 300 by the end of the first session and then declare. India can block out two sessions but if they have a chance at winning, they can fall into the English trap.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Hypothetical question: Let's say we get the same pitch for 5 tests and the series reads 0-0 in the end.

Would it still be a series with sporting great pitches which was 0-0 bcos of some incredible batting? :bm
Click to expand...


Its all about opnions bro. For me the pitch is good it has everything for everyone. If we had 5 pitches like this I think the bowlers would have had a shocking series to not have 1 winner on a pitch like this. But pitches like these if you bat well and concentrate you shouldn't lose.

I doubt we will see 5 pitches like this. I just prefer test matches to have a winner that's why I find this test slightly boring. The batting has been good so I'll give credit to the batters.
 
Hadi Rizvi said:
Draw seems likely but ENG will be looking to get to that 300 mark and then declare so that IND require approx 4.5-5 RPO to win. ENG could put IND in 2 minds whether to play for draw or chase. Both scenarios favour ENG unless they fold before 270 which is rather unlikely considering their batting depth.
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Yes I hope England get to 300 and declare so we get a game. What I think will happen is England will bat out most of the day.
 
England will need to up the ante from ball one.

At least need to give themselves 50-60 overs to work with. You never know, a collapse could happen.
 
If Ashwin wasn't focused on bowling, I dare say he would have become a very brilliant bat.. has a potential to be top-tier all-rounder (or already one?)

If I were in cooks shoe, I would have my team bat whole day and hope couple of bowlers would break down.. considering matches are back to back it wound give an excellent opportunity for upcoming games
 
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