India vs Pakistan in Tests : Who is currently better, considering all possible venues?

[szrana007]

You don't understand.

We have lost our last 3 games in New Zealand. The 2 in 2016 and the last test. We have lost in Australia since 90s. South Africa we have lost our last 6 i think. A win 2016 against England does not come under the last games played against England. Our last 3 tests against England we didn't win.

I have explained it to you but you seem to not understand the "last "part.

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...anval1=span;team=7;template=results;type=team

You don't understand that you can't use different timelines for different countries. That link I have posted shows the results of Pakistan's last 27 test matches in SENA countries.

 

[Rana]

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...anval1=span;team=7;template=results;type=team

You don't understand that you can't use different timelines for different countries. That link I have posted shows the results of Pakistan's last 27 test matches in SENA countries.

In the case of Hasan versus Pakistan.....you can use different timelines

Pakistan have lost everything!

 

[Mesozoic]

[MENTION=151383]Local.Dada[/MENTION]

I am talking strictly about that little phase in 2016. I remember Pakistan toured Eng, NZ and Australia that year...and their seam attack of Amir, Rahat, Sohail, Wahab did pretty well.

Sohail Khan took two or three fifers in England. Amir was consistently picking important wickets. Rahat was a good supporting act bowled well in NZ while wahab was doing most of the donkey's work in UAE a bit like Umesh.

I'm not saying it was a great attack but it was more than decent.

 

[szrana007]

In the case of Hasan versus Pakistan.....you can use different timelines

Pakistan have lost everything!

Pakistan's last 27 test matches in SENA date back to 2010 and include 3 wins in Eng and 1 win NZL. He is actually starting from 1999 in Aus, lol. Since 1999, Pakistan have won 11 test matches in SENA, how misleading really.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

The fact that we took the 1st Test against NZ to Day 5 where all 3 results were possible without out Babar Azam and Hassan Ali shows you how good we can be when we play our best xi.

Bring in Babar, Hassan and Imam and I think we can easily challenge India in tests.

 

[Rana]

Pakistan's last 27 test matches in SENA date back to 2010 and include 3 wins in Eng and 1 win NZL. He is actually starting from 1999 in Aus, lol. Since 1999, Pakistan have won 11 test matches in SENA, how misleading really.

Joker. Thats why i love this guy. My favourite poster here on PP

 

[saeed5646]

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...anval1=span;team=7;template=results;type=team

You don't understand that you can't use different timelines for different countries. That link I have posted shows the results of Pakistan's last 27 test matches in SENA countries.

Good catch but will be hard to digest for our usual suspects

 

[Rana]

Good catch but will be hard to digest for our usual suspects

Digest? What is that? All I know is name calling and Ignore list.

 

[Buffet]

The peak rating of Pakistan in the last 10 years is 111 points.

The question should not be about Pakistan being better than India.

The question should be how long Pakistan can keep rank in the top 4? 2 months, 4 months, 2 years, 4 years?

If Pakistan keeps its best ever peak rating for 4 years then it may not be enough to get into the top 2 most times, but I think it will allow occupying a position in the top 4. That should be the goal.

 

[szrana007]

The peak rating of Pakistan in the last 10 years is 111 points.

The question should not be about Pakistan being better than India.

The question should be how long Pakistan can keep rank in the top 4? 2 months, 4 months, 2 years, 4 years?

If Pakistan keeps its best ever peak rating for 4 years then it may not be enough to get into the top 2 most times, but I think it will allow occupying a position in the top 4. That should be the goal.

Yes, Pakistan was consistently in the top 4 in the test rankings from 2010-2016. Since MisYou era ended though, we have been languishing at 7th.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Good catch but will be hard to digest for our usual suspects

Fact is, we the Pakistani fans have outrageous expectations from our team. And when we don't win fans go berserk I don't know exact stats but Ishant Sharma has played more tests than Pak and Shaheens XI pacers combined and now he is a key player of India. Otoh, we have haters wanting blood of a teenager

Indians have their doctored pitches and easy home wins, hence their pathetic SENA record (which is worse than Pak an indigestible fact) is hidden under layers of IPL.

 

[MMHS]

Lol .

Days have changed Hasan, 4.5 years!!! In that period PAK has sunk at accelerating rate, India has gone strength to strength. Think about this - PAK has lost Misbah, YK, Azhar (u know what I mean), in Asia Hafeez... this is with bat. While in bowling, every bowler has regressed- posters jumping with Shaheen is desperation but in he really that better than JK of 2012? Yasir is just a shed of his past and after this Test, yet I believe after this Test, his stock will raise......... only positive is Rizwan’s keeping, that to is normalised with the slip catching standard left after YK, Asad & Misbah.

On contrary, India has gone from strength to strength, have replaced older bunch with inform youngsters, their middle age players haven’t declined like Azhar, Haris, Asad and their youngsters are much better groomed for the transition to international cricket.

Finally, Test cricket is all about picking 20 wickets and in this 4 years back India has formed worlds most balanced & formidable attack for Test with very good depth (imagine blowing Aussies at MCG without Shami, Ishant, BK & Umesh in 2nd innings and Kuldeep not making the XI) while PAK bowlers are picking wickets in PAKPassion only.

If you put all the factors in a module - it’ll show an overwhelming shift of balance. It’s not even a contest now but in August 2016, it indeed was ... and PAK was No. 1 ranked for a brief period.

 

[UzmanBeast]

Bangladesh also has better full strength batting. Tamim,Shakib,Mushfiqur,Mahamadullah are a much better batting line up especially in Asia than the Pakistan batting.

I don’t think Babar has the same impact as at least Shakib and Mushfiqur.

Afghanistan need a couple of batsmen and fast bowlers to regularly start beating teams but they have these unorthodox cricketers that can upset teams on their day much like a lesser version of WI or Pak. Bangladesh is more consistent in ODis at least.

Tamim is old and out of form.

Shakib just came from a ban, so who knows what his form is like.

Mushfiqur can produce some decent knocks, and he's a pretty good player for the lower order.

Mahamadullah's batting record speaks for itself. Averaging 33 with a SR of 77.

Pakistan will beat Bangladesh easily because of a better fast bowling lineup, but Bangladesh's spin department outranks ours.

It might seem like Bangladesh is becoming a better team, certainly with the combination they are playing, but look at the age factor of the squad. Tamim, Shakib, and Mushfiqur will almost retire at the same time, so what happens to the team then? I can't think of many other Bangladesh batsmen who have shown the same level of excellence as the names I have mentioned, so if Bangladesh beat us now, it won't be a long-lasting victory.

 

[szrana007]

Fact is, we the Pakistani fans have outrageous expectations from our team. And when we don't win fans go berserk I don't know exact stats but Ishant Sharma has played more tests than Pak and Shaheens XI pacers combined and now he is a key player of India. Otoh, we have haters wanting blood of a teenager

Indians have their doctored pitches and easy home wins, hence their pathetic SENA record (which is worse than Pak an indigestible fact) is hidden under layers of IPL.

Since 2000, record of Pakistan and India in SENA. India is slightly ahead.

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...span;team=6;team=7;template=results;type=team

 

[Mesozoic]

Indians have their doctored pitches and easy home wins, hence their pathetic SENA record (which is worse than Pak an indigestible fact) is hidden under layers of IPL.

It's funny though. Because since the day this thread was created, Pakistan won 1 out of 17 SENA tests while India won 5 out of 16.

Lol at "indigestible fact "

 

[Rajdeep]

In my view, the only time Pakistan was better than India in the last decade was 2012-2014 period. It was the time when we were losing everything under Dhoni and Pakistan had a very decent team with peak Ajmal and MisYou was also in their relative prime. I dont think there was ever a Pakistan test side that was stronger than India since Kohli took over the captaincy.

This thread was opened in 2016 when India played 12 tests and won 9 with 0 loses. Pakistan lost 7 tests in that year with a test defeat against West Indies at home.

 

[Varun]

Losing to Pakistan in a test wherever would be like losing to Sri Lanka. Could happen of course, but I would be very disappointed if it did.

 

[Mesozoic]

Days have changed Hasan, 4.5 years!!! In that period PAK has sunk at accelerating rate, India has gone strength to strength. Think about this - PAK has lost Misbah, YK, Azhar (u know what I mean), in Asia Hafeez... this is with bat. While in bowling, every bowler has regressed- posters jumping with Shaheen is desperation but in he really that better than JK of 2012? Yasir is just a shed of his past and after this Test, yet I believe after this Test, his stock will raise......... only positive is Rizwan’s keeping, that to is normalised with the slip catching standard left after YK, Asad & Misbah.

On contrary, India has gone from strength to strength, have replaced older bunch with inform youngsters, their middle age players haven’t declined like Azhar, Haris, Asad and their youngsters are much better groomed for the transition to international cricket.

Finally, Test cricket is all about picking 20 wickets and in this 4 years back India has formed worlds most balanced & formidable attack for Test with very good depth (imagine blowing Aussies at MCG without Shami, Ishant, BK & Umesh in 2nd innings and Kuldeep not making the XI) while PAK bowlers are picking wickets in PAKPassion only.

If you put all the factors in a module - it’ll show an overwhelming shift of balance. It’s not even a contest now but in August 2016, it indeed was ... and PAK was No. 1 ranked for a brief period.

Lol. Brutal!

 

[King_Kohli]

It's funny though. Because since the day this thread was created, Pakistan won 1 out of 17 SENA tests while India won 5 out of 16.

Lol at "indigestible fact "

 

[szrana007]

It's funny though. Because since the day this thread was created, Pakistan won 1 out of 17 SENA tests while India won 5 out of 16.

Lol at "indigestible fact "

India is only slightly ahead in SENA since 2000 though.

 

[Slog]

India is only slightly ahead in SENA since 2000 though.

No they are much further ahead.

We are well ahead in England. New Zealand you can say it’s been even stevens with us slightly ahead perhaps. But in Australia and South Africa they have been so far ahead it’s not even funny

 

[Mesozoic]

India is only slightly ahead in SENA since 2000 though.

Yeah I know. Was just giving a little perspective to brother sultanbowled.

 

[Buffet]

Yes, Pakistan was consistently in the top 4 in the test rankings from 2010-2016. Since MisYou era ended though, we have been languishing at 7th.

That should the goal right now. Be in the top 4 consistently.

 

[Pakhs]

This is not even a question as present, India is way ahead this is due to not only having better players but also those players being very experienced and at their peak.

Pakistan is a young side which is in a rebuilding phase where India is a good side at its peak.

 

[szrana007]

No they are much further ahead.

We are well ahead in England. New Zealand you can say it’s been even stevens with us slightly ahead perhaps. But in Australia and South Africa they have been so far ahead it’s not even funny

Pakistan have won 2 series in NZL post 2000, and drawn 2 as well, India have only won 1 series in NZL post 2000 and lost the other 3, so Pak has been much better in NZL. Overall in SENA, India is slightly ahead. Check the link I have posted above.

 

[King_Kohli]

This is not even a question as present, India is way ahead this is due to not only having better players but also those players being very experienced and at their peak.

Pakistan is a young side which is in a rebuilding phase where India is a good side at its peak.

Pakistan playing with 1-2 young players but that doesn't mean they are young side.
Both Pakistan and India playing almost same group of players in all formats.

Pakistan rebuilding phase is never ending process. Rebuilding since 2003 wc, almost 2 decades.

 

[Hasan123]

Days have changed Hasan, 4.5 years!!! In that period PAK has sunk at accelerating rate, India has gone strength to strength. Think about this - PAK has lost Misbah, YK, Azhar (u know what I mean), in Asia Hafeez... this is with bat. While in bowling, every bowler has regressed- posters jumping with Shaheen is desperation but in he really that better than JK of 2012? Yasir is just a shed of his past and after this Test, yet I believe after this Test, his stock will raise......... only positive is Rizwan’s keeping, that to is normalised with the slip catching standard left after YK, Asad & Misbah.

On contrary, India has gone from strength to strength, have replaced older bunch with inform youngsters, their middle age players haven’t declined like Azhar, Haris, Asad and their youngsters are much better groomed for the transition to international cricket.

Finally, Test cricket is all about picking 20 wickets and in this 4 years back India has formed worlds most balanced & formidable attack for Test with very good depth (imagine blowing Aussies at MCG without Shami, Ishant, BK & Umesh in 2nd innings and Kuldeep not making the XI) while PAK bowlers are picking wickets in PAKPassion only.

If you put all the factors in a module - it’ll show an overwhelming shift of balance. It’s not even a contest now but in August 2016, it indeed was ... and PAK was No. 1 ranked for a brief period.

But I always felt as though India were the better team at the time and would be in the future.

 

[Hasan123]

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...anval1=span;team=7;template=results;type=team

You don't understand that you can't use different timelines for different countries. That link I have posted shows the results of Pakistan's last 27 test matches in SENA countries.

Wow 4 wins 27 games. Such an amazing record to be proud of.

 

[Rana]

Wow 4 wins 27 games. Such an amazing record to be proud of.

But he proved that you were making up things though...

 

[Hasan123]

In the case of Hasan versus Pakistan.....you can use different timelines

Pakistan have lost everything!

And for you everything is fine with Pakistan cricket. What happened to that piece of paper of people who Naseem would prove wrong? What happened to Rizwan being a wasteman? I thought Malik should bat ahead of Babar? Faheem, Hasan Ali, and Shadab were the new Razzaq and Afridis, and I thought Babar should retire from T20 .

 

[Hasan123]

But he proved that you were making up things though...

[MENTION=9]Saj[/MENTION] made a thread saying we have lost our last 24 games in Australia,South Africa, and New Zealand. Im sure that’s made up too.

 

[Hasan123]

But he proved that you were making up things though...

And you were proved wrong in this thread, but now your needing other people to fight your battles because your cricket knowledge is absolutely terrible.

 

[Rana]

And you were proved wrong in this thread, but now your needing other people to fight your battles because your cricket knowledge is absolutely terrible.

My battles are fought by themselves when the opponent thinks more from his bias rather than rationality. This thread is from 2016 my friend. There are better examples out there as you have listed to prove me wrong if it means anything.

 

[Hasan123]

Since people don’t understand basic things, since 96. So we have lost our last 14 tests in Australia, our last 2 series in South Africa were played in 2012/2013 and 2018/2019, we lost all 6 games out of 6. We played New Zealand in 2016 and lost 2-0, we lost the first test .

So let’s break it down. Our last 14 games in Australia we have lost, our last 3 games in New Zealand we have lost, our last 6 games in South Africa we have lost. A series played in 2010/2011 is not our last series played in a country when we have played 2 more series after that. And we didn’t win our last 3 games in England. Some people don’t understand the word “last”. They forget about the last games and put fillers in to 2010 to make the record acceptable .

 

[Hasan123]

My battles are fought by themselves when the opponent thinks more from his bias rather than rationality. This thread is from 2016 my friend. There are better examples out there as you have listed to prove me wrong if it means anything.

You do need other people’s to fight your battles, look at you high fiving them despite you being proved wrong in the overall topic.

 

[szrana007]

Wow 4 wins 27 games. Such an amazing record to be proud of.

India isn't much better in SENA in the last 20 years either. Since 2000, Test records of Pak and India in SENA.

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...span;team=6;team=7;template=results;type=team

 

[Rana]

Since people don’t understand basic things, since 96. So we have lost our last 14 tests in Australia, our last 2 series in South Africa were played in 2012/2013 and 2018/2019, we lost all 6 games out of 6. We played New Zealand in 2016 and lost 2-0, we lost the first test .

So let’s break it down. Our last 14 games in Australia we have lost, our last 3 games in New Zealand we have lost, our last 6 games in South Africa we have lost. A series played in 2010/2011 is not our last series played in a country when we have played 2 more series after that. And we didn’t win our last 3 games in England. Some people don’t understand the word “last”. They forget about the last games and put fillers in to 2010 to make the record acceptable .

[MENTION=139510]saeed5646[/MENTION] [MENTION=142056]szrana007[/MENTION]

I guess case closed? Or is it?

 

[Sir Alex]

I would say till 2015 or whereabouts India and Pak had similar fortunes overall in SENA countries. Pak having edge in swinging conditions of Eng and sometimes.NZ. India having their days in bouncy pitches of Aus and SA.

Once Virat Kohli took over, he and Ravi Shastri have brought in a seminal change in Indian team towards competing in test matches. They were already nearly unassailable at home. But the duo well and truly made India a force to reckon with overseas as well. Even if India lost,.those matches were largely competitive. And India has won 5 matches and lost 10 since 01 Jan 2015 with a win loss of 0.5 - Not amazing but still much better than past. Pak in the same period have won 3 and lost 15.

The gap has decisively widened in the lady 5 years and is continuing to widen. India is due a good result in Eng and I see it happening this.year. And I think in SA as well. All it need are a couple of new batsmen really turning it up. So far that's been the weakest thing under Kohli, their batting is very circumspect in SENA.

 

[Hasan123]

India isn't much better in SENA in the last 20 years either. Since 2000, Test records of Pak and India in SENA.

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...span;team=6;team=7;template=results;type=team

Never said India were that great in SENA. But they have won a series in Australia, something which Pakistan will never do. And they won a series in England in 2007, Pakistan last won a test series in England in 1996. India aren’t great in SENA, but they are better than Pakistan in SENA.

 

[Rana]

You do need other people’s to fight your battles, look at you high fiving them despite you being proved wrong in the overall topic.

But being proven wrong how? Read the op. Read the responses. This is a discussion for what took place and the current situation in 2016. It is a thread relevant to its time.

There are lots of well educated and top posters here who have written/made threads in 2010 that would sound like a joke right now if it was a hot topic on the forum. You cant say that the person has been proven wrong.

Be a fair man Hasan.

 

[szrana007]

Never said India were that great in SENA. But they have won a series in Australia, something which Pakistan will never do. And they won a series in England in 2007, Pakistan last won a test series in England in 1996. India aren’t great in SENA, but they are better than Pakistan in SENA.

Pakistan have drawn 3 series in England post 2000, which is very creditable. In Australia, yes our record has been atrocious. But post 2000 has been the best ever period for Indian cricket, but even in this period, they aren't far ahead of Pakistan in SENA.

 

[Hasan123]

Never said India were that great in SENA. But they have won a series in Australia, something which Pakistan will never do. And they won a series in England in 2007, Pakistan last won a test series in England in 1996. India aren’t great in SENA, but they are better than Pakistan in SENA.

Pakistan last won a series in NZ in 2011, India last won in 2009 . The gap in SENA between Pakistan and India is bigger than Pakistan fans want to believe.

 

[szrana007]

[MENTION=139510]saeed5646[/MENTION] [MENTION=142056]szrana007[/MENTION]

I guess case closed? Or is it?

I can't argue over this anymore. I made my case

 

[Hasan123]

Pakistan have drawn 3 series in England post 2000, which is very creditable. In Australia, yes our record has been atrocious. But post 2000 has been the best ever period for Indian cricket, but even in this period, they aren't far ahead of Pakistan in SENA.

What would you rather draw all those series or actually win a series? I would swap 1 of those draws for winning a series. But Pakistan did play well to get the draws in 2016 and 2018.

 

[Rana]

I can't argue over this anymore. I made my case

Im still trying to decipher, what timeline are we applying in the case of Pakistan and SENA? a real timeline or Hassan's timeline?

 

[Hasan123]

But being proven wrong how? Read the op. Read the responses. This is a discussion for what took place and the current situation in 2016. It is a thread relevant to its time.

There are lots of well educated and top posters here who have written/made threads in 2010 that would sound like a joke right now if it was a hot topic on the forum. You cant say that the person has been proven wrong.

Be a fair man Hasan.

Fair enough. But I will say at the time I believed India were the better team, and would be in the future because their team was younger and obviously was better in quality.

 

[szrana007]

Pakistan last won a series in NZ in 2011, India last won in 2009 . The gap in SENA between Pakistan and India is bigger than Pakistan fans want to believe.

Pakistan have won 2 series in NZL post 2000, also drawn 2 series in NZL. India have only won 1 match in NZL post 2000. Pakistan have been a far better side than India in NZL post 2000.

 

[szrana007]

Im still trying to decipher, what timeline are we applying in the case of Pakistan and SENA? a real timeline or Hassan's timeline?

I don't know man, for there is this one timeline for Aus starts from 1999, but then for England it starts from August 2020,lol

 

[MMHS]

But I always felt as though India were the better team at the time and would be in the future.

In future the gap will increase further - may be there will be periods in patches, where the gap will narrow down before widening further. It’s like two microwaves running parallel in different frequencies - sometimes the highest peak of lower magnitude comes very close or even overlapping the lowest peak of higher magnitude.... its temporary.

India wasn’t better than PAK much as long as YK was there and Azhar was in form - may be till 2017. But, now it’s really difficult to compare.

 

[Hasan123]

Pakistan have won 2 series in NZL post 2000, also drawn 2 series in NZL. India have only won 1 match in NZL post 2000. Pakistan have been a far better side than India in NZL post 2000.

I don’t know how India will do in the future, but I don’t see Pakistan record in NZ being good in the future.

 

[Hasan123]

Pakistan have won 2 series in NZL post 2000, also drawn 2 series in NZL. India have only won 1 match in NZL post 2000. Pakistan have been a far better side than India in NZL post 2000.

Okay let’s go with your timeline. In 10 years Pakistan have won 4 games in SENA? With 1 series win. Is that acceptable?

 

[Slog]

Pakistan is a young side which is in a rebuilding phase where India is a good side at its peak.

This is where the team management is making fools of people like you.

They know they are doing a terrible job and in order to shield themselves select a couple of unprepared teenagers and then use the ‘young side’ and ‘rebuilding phase’ story line and avoid scrutiny on the pathetic performances. You gotta be smarter.

Besides the side isn’t young by most metrics anyway so that claim is incorrect to begi. With. Core of the side (both openers, Azhar, Fawad, Haris, Yasir Shah, Abbas) are all on the wrong side of 30.

 

[szrana007]

Okay let’s go with your timeline. In 10 years Pakistan have won 4 games in SENA? With 1 series win. Is that acceptable?

Pakistan have been poor in Aus and SA in the last 10 years. In NZL, they have won a series and drawn 2 series in England in the last 10 years. In Eng and NZL, they have been decent but need to improve drastically in Aus and SA.

 

[Slog]

Pakistan have been poor in Aus and SA in the last 10 years. In NZL, they have won a series and drawn 2 series in England in the last 10 years. In Eng and NZL, they have been decent but need to improve drastically in Aus and SA.

Pakistan have not been poor in Australia and SA. They have been atrocious. We have barely won 2-3 days altogether out of all the tests played. India hasn’t been atrocious anywhere this consistently except England but even there they have managed to win a Test and been somehwat competitive unlike us in Aus and SA

 

[szrana007]

Pakistan have not been poor in Australia and SA. They have been atrocious. We have barely won 2-3 days altogether out of all the tests played. India hasn’t been atrocious anywhere this consistently except England but even there they have managed to win a Test and been somehwat competitive unlike us in Aus and SA

Yeah,you can call it atrocious, I agree, but something drastic needs to happen for us to end our losing streak in Aus. In SA, I am hopeful we can manage to end our losing streak which is at 7 matches currently starting from the 3rd and deciding test of the 2007 series.

 

[Hasan123]

This is not even a question as present, India is way ahead this is due to not only having better players but also those players being very experienced and at their peak.

Pakistan is a young side which is in a rebuilding phase where India is a good side at its peak.

Abid Ali 33
Shan 31
Azhar 35
Haris 32
Fawad 35
Rizwan 28
Faheem 26
Shaheen 20
Naseem 17
Zafar 25
Abbas 30

How that heck is that a young side? Remember some of these players are at least 1/2 years older. Only Naseem and Shaheen can be considered young, even then they are getting a lot of exposure which players of that age don’t get.

Just stop making excuses and admit we aren’t good enough and won’t be for a while.

 

[Napa]

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...land-vs-india-2nd-test-1187686/full-scorecard

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...land-vs-india-1st-test-1187685/full-scorecard

India's two Tests v NZ this year in comparison to Pakistan's ongoing Test

Pakistan batsmen have averaged more than India in NZ. 26.9 vs 18.05, a difference of 8.85.

However, Indian bowlers averaged 31.47, while Pakistani bowlers have averaged 49.83 till now. That is a larger difference of 18.36.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...d-vs-pakistan-1st-test-1233962/full-scorecard

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...-pakistan-2nd-test-1233963/live-cricket-score

Normally you would expect Pakistani bowlers and Indian batsmen to do better, but in NZ it has been reversed. No country is going to win any Tests if their bowlers average 50.

 

[sharmaji]

Right now, I will give India an edge over Pakistan in tests.

In my opinion, Kohli, Pujara, Rahane, Bumrah, Ashwin, Jadeja, Shami, Ishant > Babar, Azhar, Rizwan, Shaheen Shah, Abbas, Yasir. Rest of the players in the teams are new/young/replaceable.

In general, India will start the test as favourites. However, anyone can have a good day and blow the opposition away. Not to forget, India was 36 all out quite recently.

 

[Napa]

Pakistan batsmen have averaged more than India in NZ. 26.9 vs 18.05, a difference of 8.85.

However, Indian bowlers averaged 31.47, while Pakistani bowlers have averaged 49.83 till now. That is a larger difference of 18.36.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...d-vs-pakistan-1st-test-1233962/full-scorecard

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...-pakistan-2nd-test-1233963/live-cricket-score

Normally you would expect Pakistani bowlers and Indian batsmen to do better, but in NZ it has been reversed. No country is going to win any Tests if their bowlers average 50.

I should also add that no country is going to win any matches with their batsmen averaging 18.05 either

 

[Pakhs]

Pakistan playing with 1-2 young players but that doesn't mean they are young side.
Both Pakistan and India playing almost same group of players in all formats.

Pakistan rebuilding phase is never ending process. Rebuilding since 2003 wc, almost 2 decades.

Its not true they are rebuilding since they have lost MisYou and before that they were rebuilding due to the loss of Salman who was turning out to be a good captain and the best two bowlers in the game on form at the time Asif and Amir.

Right now they are playing with bowlers who all together have taken less wickets than Southee who is not even a great. Let alone international cricket these bowlers should have played 2/3 years of domestic cricket before debuting in international cricket. Shaheen has found himself leading an international attack where he should have been gaining experience in domestic cricket.

 

[Pakhs]

This is where the team management is making fools of people like you.

They know they are doing a terrible job and in order to shield themselves select a couple of unprepared teenagers and then use the ‘young side’ and ‘rebuilding phase’ story line and avoid scrutiny on the pathetic performances. You gotta be smarter.

Besides the side isn’t young by most metrics anyway so that claim is incorrect to begi. With. Core of the side (both openers, Azhar, Fawad, Haris, Yasir Shah, Abbas) are all on the wrong side of 30.

I am talking about experience with an exception of Azhar who has done a decent job how many matches have other player? Specially the bowling attack? You win nothing with kids and no experience.

 

[Pakhs]

Abid Ali 33
Shan 31
Azhar 35
Haris 32
Fawad 35
Rizwan 28
Faheem 26
Shaheen 20
Naseem 17
Zafar 25
Abbas 30

How that heck is that a young side? Remember some of these players are at least 1/2 years older. Only Naseem and Shaheen can be considered young, even then they are getting a lot of exposure which players of that age don’t get.

Just stop making excuses and admit we aren’t good enough and won’t be for a while.

We are not good enough I made that very clear but in terms of experience at international level this team has too many who are still establishing themselves and not played say 50 games yet?

How many times kholi has used the words like we have played enough cricket and understand how to win etc? because most of their core players have played over 300 games and he knows that counts.

 

[JaDed]

Pakistan have won 2 series in NZL post 2000, and drawn 2 as well, India have only won 1 series in NZL post 2000 and lost the other 3, so Pak has been much better in NZL. Overall in SENA, India is slightly ahead. Check the link I have posted above.

In that logic when did Pak last win a test series in Eng? Shouldn’t winning count?

 

[MMHS]

I am talking about experience with an exception of Azhar who has done a decent job how many matches have other player? Specially the bowling attack? You win nothing with kids and no experience.

PAK plays fewer Tests, therefore you’ll never get a PAK side with 7-8 players having played 50+ Tests. But, these are well aged players with years of FC experience. Take the last Test in NZ - this was the official age and tentative FC experience (years)

1. Shan 30/10+ years
2. Abid 32/around 12
3. Azhar 35/15+
4. Haris 31/10+
5. Fawad 35/15+
6. Rizwan 30/12+
7. Faheem 27/almost 10
8. Yasir 35/15+
9. Shaheen 21/2+
10. Abbas 31/10+
11. Naseem 17/1

Judge yourself ....

 

[szrana007]

In that logic when did Pak last win a test series in Eng? Shouldn’t winning count?

Yes winning counts, and post 2000 Pakistan have won 4 tests in NZL and lost 5. India have only won 1 test in NZL and lost 5 in the same period. Series wise it isn't even close, Pak have won 2 series and also drew 2 series in NZL. India have won 1 series and lost 3 series in the same period.

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...span;team=6;team=7;template=results;type=team

 

[JaDed]

Yes winning counts, and post 2000 Pakistan have won 4 tests in NZL and lost 5. India have only won 1 test in NZL and lost 5 in the same period. Series wise it isn't even close, Pak have won 2 series and also drew 2 series in NZL. India have won 1 series and lost 3 series in the same period.

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...span;team=6;team=7;template=results;type=team

Then winning series is what counts and India is better than Pak in Eng in that logic..

 

[szrana007]

Then winning series is what counts and India is better than Pak in Eng in that logic..

Pakistan have drawn 3 series in England post 2000. India have won 1 series and drawn 1 series in England in the same period. Pakistan have won more matches in England than India in the same period though. For series, If you use the standard 2-1-0 scale ( 2 points for series win, 1 point for drawn series and 0 point for a series loss) while determining the total points, then both India and Pakistan have the same number of points i.e. 3, but Pakistan has won more matches than India, so they should be rated higher.

 

[JaDed]

Pakistan have drawn 3 series in England post 2000. India have won 1 series and drawn 1 series in England in the same period. Pakistan have won more matches in England than India in the same period though. For series, If you use the standard 2-1-0 scale ( 2 points for series win, 1 point for drawn series and 0 point for a series loss) while determining the total points, then both India and Pakistan have the same number of points i.e. 3, but Pakistan has won more matches than India, so they should be rated higher.

Ok fine Pak is rated higher in Eng,NZ which other country should Pak be rated higher in incl Windies, Lanka, Home, Aus, SA basically other majority?

 

[Hasan123]

We are not good enough I made that very clear but in terms of experience at international level this team has too many who are still establishing themselves and not played say 50 games yet?

How many times kholi has used the words like we have played enough cricket and understand how to win etc? because most of their core players have played over 300 games and he knows that counts.

But by the time most of these players who haven’t played 50 tests play 50 tests, they will be nearly 40 lol. They have a lot of experience in first class cricket. The “young team” excuse doesn’t wash with me.

 

[szrana007]

Ok fine Pak is rated higher in Eng,NZ which other country should Pak be rated higher in incl Windies, Lanka, Home, Aus, SA basically other majority?

In Aus and WI, India has been much better than Pak in the last 2 decades. I would add SA too, but both Pak and Ind are yet to win a series there. India has a good chance to win a series in SA though. SL is close though, India recently have won twice there, but since 2000, Pak has 3 series wins in SL to India's 2 series wins. In Eng, NZ and SL, Pak should be rated higher. In Aus, SA and WI, India is much better.

 

[Napa]

In Aus and WI, India has been much better than Pak in the last 2 decades. I would add SA too, but both Pak and Ind are yet to win a series there. India has a good chance to win a series in SA though. SL is close though, India recently have won twice there, but since 2000, Pak has 3 series wins in SL to India's 2 series wins. In Eng, <b>NZ</b> and SL, <b>Pak should be rated higher.</b> In Aus, SA and WI, India is much better.

Would be true if cricket was only about batting. However, bowling also counts. Currently NZ 433/3 with no end in sight.

 

[Oxfordchamp]

In Aus and WI, India has been much better than Pak in the last 2 decades. I would add SA too, but both Pak and Ind are yet to win a series there. India has a good chance to win a series in SA though. SL is close though, India recently have won twice there, but since 2000, Pak has 3 series wins in SL to India's 2 series wins. In Eng, NZ and SL, Pak should be rated higher. In Aus, SA and WI, India is much better.

since 2000,

india in srilanka: won 8 lost 6 win/loss ratio : 1.33
pakistan in srilanka: won 5 lost 6 w/l ratio : 0.833

 

[I think therfore I am]

India would brown wash them anywhere in the world. Forget their batting, the Indian bowling attack would rip them to shreds. Never thought I would ever say that

 

[ufcfan]

Indian test batting is poor

 

[Indiafan]

Indian test batting is poor

Yes but we are still managing to score 300+ against the likes of Cummins, Starc and Hazlewood. I dont think we will have much issues against Pak attack. Pink ball might cause some problems though

 

[Pakhs]

PAK plays fewer Tests, therefore you’ll never get a PAK side with 7-8 players having played 50+ Tests. But, these are well aged players with years of FC experience. Take the last Test in NZ - this was the official age and tentative FC experience (years)

1. Shan 30/10+ years
2. Abid 32/around 12
3. Azhar 35/15+
4. Haris 31/10+
5. Fawad 35/15+
6. Rizwan 30/12+
7. Faheem 27/almost 10
8. Yasir 35/15+
9. Shaheen 21/2+
10. Abbas 31/10+
11. Naseem 17/1

Judge yourself ....

They either lack FC experience or test experience. Age is irrelevant if you have not actually played enough. Look at the bowling attack lol. Your point is correct they dont play enough test cricket to be good at it specially overseas they will stay competitive in Pakistan and win most things even with this lack of experience.

 

[Pakhs]

But by the time most of these players who haven’t played 50 tests play 50 tests, they will be nearly 40 lol. They have a lot of experience in first class cricket. The “young team” excuse doesn’t wash with me.

Look at the bowling attack they did not play even 2 years of full FC season before being drafted in international cricket with an exception of Abbas who was the architect of Pakistan last meaningful test series win against Australia. Batting is doing better than bowling only because its slightly more experienced.

 

[Hasan123]

Look at the bowling attack they did not play even 2 years of full FC season before being drafted in international cricket with an exception of Abbas who was the architect of Pakistan last meaningful test series win against Australia. Batting is doing better than bowling only because its slightly more experienced.

Naseem should definitely be learning his trade in domestic cricket and can be counted as young. But the rest of the team has enough experience. The excuse of the team being young is a joke.

 

[Mahee]

Pakistan will beat India 10 out of 20 times in test cricket....they will play like a beast when it comes to playing against India....Shaheen would end Kohli's career, which is actually a good thing IMO.

 

[King_Kohli]

Pakistan will beat India 10 out of 20 times in test cricket....they will play like a beast when it comes to playing against India....Shaheen would end Kohli's career, which is actually a good thing IMO.

This is like Vadivelu end Mahes baabu's Career.


What is meaning of baabu?