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India vs South Africa | 3rd Test | Nagpur | Nov 25-29, 2015 | Match Thread

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MMHS said:
6 down, so far 4 missed chances & these batsmen scored almost 450 in 50 overs.

@SIF - do you still believe that these days, batsmen are chasing 300 for their "himmat"?
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Buddy...you have to quote me by my name [MENTION=134809]sensible-indian-fan[/MENTION]

Or else I won't know if I am not active in the threads.

You are comparing apples and oranges here. Haha....can't even believe you are using this test to make an argument for that. Mindset change in ODIs is real. Of course, it was aided by ease of conditions too but I have seen teams crumbling in pattas in ODIs chasing 300.
 
Aman said:
Loving cricket like this.

Batsmen have to earn their runs.
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Batsmen have to give an arm and a leg for each run here. This is almost as bad as the pitches in Australia, with the batsmen being the victims for a change.
 
Bilal7 said:
Batsmen have to give an arm and a leg for each run here. This is almost as bad as the pitches in Australia, with the batsmen being the victims for a change.
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Batsmen over time will improve and will be able to score runs here, it's just because they're so unaccustomed to these conditions that they've struggled.
 
Aman said:
Batsmen over time will improve and will be able to score runs here, it's just because they're so unaccustomed to these conditions that they've struggled.
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They won't get better. Refer to MMHS' post. These kinds of pitches will breed Afridi style batsmen who hit out or get out.
 
Pantani said:
They won't get better. Refer to MMHS' post. These kinds of pitches will breed Afridi style batsmen who hit out or get out.
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79 all out.

There's only one way from there.

You've gotten use to scores of 400 and 500, but a score of 200 is a good effort here.

Heck a 20 or 30 here is already more valuable than a 100 on a road in Aus or NZ.
 
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street cricketer said:
And so do Aussies whenever they tour India. That's not the point. The Australian decks were always flat since the inception of drop in pitches, making batting slogfests like the Aus NZ series.
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I'm sorry for being snarky. But the same thing of course applies for India, if India made flat pitches when Australia toured then the quality of the series would become better because Australia would stand a chance of at least drawing a game or two, as India did in Australia in 2003/04 and 2014/15 thanks to the flat pitches. Flat pitches are not necessarily awful for cricket, if you ask me the worst thing about cricket is one sided results and they happen mostly when one team prepares a surface which favours their style of bowlers (i.e. either a wicket too far in favour of fast bowlers or spin bowlers).
 
Aman said:
79 all out.

There's only one way from there.

You've gotten use to scores of 400 and 500, but a score of 200 is a good effort here. Heck a 20 or 30 here is already more valuable than a 100 on a road in Aus or NZ.
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So instead of 79 or 215, they would make 250 all out in 50 overs and the match will still finish inside 3 days. Playing on pitches like these will produce Afridi's not Cook's.
 
Aman said:
Batsmen over time will improve and will be able to score runs here, it's just because they're so unaccustomed to these conditions that they've struggled.
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The Indian batsmen have been playing here their entire life and only a few shots from Jadeja got them to a respectable total on this track. Heavily in favor of the bowlers, which is nice to see, but this should not become as prevalent as roads are in Australia.
 
Pantani said:
So instead of 79 or 215, they would make 250 all out in 50 overs and the match will still finish inside 3 days. Playing on pitches like these will produce Afridi's not Cook's.
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Afridi's won't last long here, they may get 1 or 2 slogs away but they'll eventually end up bowled or stumped.

Proper application and technique is required, you need to be decisive and need to be able to pick up lengths well i.e. watch the ball closely - with that, you can be successful here.
 
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Bilal7 said:
Batsmen have to give an arm and a leg for each run here. This is almost as bad as the pitches in Australia, with the batsmen being the victims for a change.
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These are pitches with 250 par score, nothing wrong with it. Even this poor Indian team has got closer to that score while South Africa hasn't even looked like scoring 100 runs.
 
Bilal7 said:
The Indian batsmen have been playing here their entire life and only a few shots from Jadeja got them to a respectable total on this track. Heavily in favor of the bowlers, which is nice to see, but this should not become as prevalent as roads are in Australia.
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Coz they are rubbish.
 
Aman said:
Afridi's won't last long here, they may get 1 or 2 slogs away but they'll eventually end up bowled or stumped.

Proper application and technique is required, you need to be decisive and be able to pick up lengths wells i.e. watch the ball closely - with that, you can be successful here.
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I remember the Australia tour of India in 2013, Phil Hughes faced something like 80 balls against spin over the course of that series, scoring a grand total of 0 runs and losing his wicket 4 or 5 times. Tuk-tuk does not work on rank turners unless you are an amazing, Cook-tier batsman at tuk-tuking.
 
LastManstanding said:
Coz they are rubbish.
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Then the obvious solution is to prepare pitches which mask their rubbishness, no? That will make for a better standard of cricket. Imagine India of the '70s if they had to play on greentops all the time with their spin quartet; or India of the '90s opening the bowling with Saurav Ganguly, having to play on greentops all the time. That would make for awful cricket and the team better equipped for the conditions would win in a landslide all the time.
 
Pantani said:
I'm sorry for being snarky. But the same thing of course applies for India, if India made flat pitches when Australia toured then the quality of the series would become better because Australia would stand a chance of at least drawing a game or two, as India did in Australia in 2003/04 and 2014/15 thanks to the flat pitches. Flat pitches are not necessarily awful for cricket, if you ask me the worst thing about cricket is one sided results and they happen mostly when one team prepares a surface which favours their style of bowlers (i.e. either a wicket too far in favour of fast bowlers or spin bowlers).
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India doesnt have bounce like Aus, so if you prepare flat wickets every match is going to be a draw.
 
Pantani said:
Then the obvious solution is to prepare pitches which mask their rubbishness, no? That will make for a better standard of cricket. Imagine India of the '70s if they had to play on greentops all the time with their spin quartet; or India of the '90s opening the bowling with Saurav Ganguly, having to play on greentops all the time. That would make for awful cricket and the team better equipped for the conditions would win in a landslide all the time.
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Why?

They are international players and should be able to play on all sorts of surfaces.
 
LastManstanding said:
Coz they are rubbish.
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No, they are not. Kohli, Rahane, Pujara, Vijay are all good batsman but on these pitches, you just can't do anything to survive. The pitches should be balanced.

Zak_Fan said:
These are pitches with 250 par score, nothing wrong with it. Even this poor Indian team has got closer to that score while South Africa hasn't even looked like scoring 100 runs.
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The par score here is 200 in the first innings and 150 in the second. This shouldn't become common because it favors the bowlers excessively.
 
Then some of our Indian friends have the audacity to compare Ashwin and Shah's records in Asia. Please, Shah would probably be averaging under 20 if his home matches were played on such pitches.
 
Bilal7 said:
No, they are not. Kohli, Rahane, Pujara, Vijay are all good batsman but on these pitches, you just can't do anything to survive. The pitches should be balanced.



The par score here is 200 in the first innings and 150 in the second. This shouldn't become common because it favors the bowlers excessively.
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So India has scored above par all innings while South Africa hasn't even touch half that?

Wasn't this Indian side supposed to be horrible against spin? How come they scored above par for the track all the time?
 
Bilal7 said:
No, they are not. Kohli, Rahane, Pujara, Vijay are all good batsman but on these pitches, you just can't do anything to survive. The pitches should be balanced.



The par score here is 200 in the first innings and 150 in the second. This shouldn't become common because it favors the bowlers excessively.
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Same bastmen got out to Moen Ali and Lyon on not so helpful pitches for spinners. Do you really think you can use them as yardstick anymore? Batsmen like Dravid, Ganguly, Sehwag and Laxman would have made mockery of this attack.
 
Pantani said:
I'm sorry for being snarky. But the same thing of course applies for India, if India made flat pitches when Australia toured then the quality of the series would become better because Australia would stand a chance of at least drawing a game or two, as India did in Australia in 2003/04 and 2014/15 thanks to the flat pitches. Flat pitches are not necessarily awful for cricket, if you ask me the worst thing about cricket is one sided results and they happen mostly when one team prepares a surface which favours their style of bowlers (i.e. either a wicket too far in favour of fast bowlers or spin bowlers).
Click to expand...

No need to apologise mate, just a sports convo.

I'm not comparing respective teams' abilities here. I'm comparing pitches.

Flat decks no doubt offer equal contests, but more often end in tame draws, like the Perth match recently. India drew last 2 matches because they were extremely flat and would've done so at Adelaide if they had decided to drop anchor. But Gabba had a bit of a spice in it and the match was great eventhough India lost. An another 50 runs in the 2nd innings by India, then things would've been very difficult for the Aussies on that pitch.

Personally, I don't prefer green tops and rank turners either. Pitch can be greenish or turning but not like wimbledon lawns or roland garros courts. I prefer pitches which have everything in it, obviously with pitch similar to the home conditions. But pitches shouldn't be polarized so much and be under prepared so much.

However, my point is, green tracks and rank turners are infinitely better than batathons on flat decks, which mostly end in dull draws. Atleast these give out results and will test the skill of the opposition and will also make any good performance by the visiting team infinitely more valuable (like Rahane's ton at Lords or Sanga's at NZ). However you can't say the same thing about the flat decks.
 
Zak_Fan said:
So India has scored above par all innings while South Africa hasn't even touch half that?

Wasn't this Indian side supposed to be horrible against spin? How come they scored above par for the track all the time?
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Yes, India has gotten the par score in all their innings. This Indian side is not great against spin but they are facing Harmer, Elgar and Tahir, that is why they've gotten enough runs in both tests. Winning the toss has also been very helpful.

LastManstanding said:
Same bastmen got out to Moen Ali and Lyon on not so helpful pitches for spinners. Do you really think you can use them as yardstick anymore? Batsmen like Dravid, Ganguly, Sehwag and Laxman would have made mockery of this attack.
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That is all speculation. Amla and de Villiers are excellent players of spin too and despite the fact that one of them is in terrible form, they shouldn't be getting out for binary scores.
 
Bilal7 said:
The par score here is 200 in the first innings and 150 in the second. This shouldn't become common because it favors the bowlers excessively.
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The first innings par score is 250-300. Did you watch the first days play ?
Vijay, Kohli, Rahane and Jadeja lost their wickets to Morkel & Rabada, not the spinners.
 
Bilal7 said:
Yes, India has gotten the par score in all their innings. This Indian side is not great against spin but they are facing Harmer, Elgar and Tahir, that is why they've gotten enough runs in both tests. Winning the toss has also been very helpful.

[/B]

That is all speculation. Amla and de Villiers are excellent players of spin too and despite the fact that one of them is in terrible form, they shouldn't be getting out for binary scores.
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No they are not. Scoring runs asgainst spinners on green tops or flat decks is different from scoring runs on spinning tracks. Excellent players of spin will find a way to score runs on rank turners.

And if you dont believe me watch how Laxman played Warne in 2001.
 
Bilal7 said:
Yes, India has gotten the par score in all their innings. This Indian side is not great against spin but they are facing Harmer, Elgar and Tahir, that is why they've gotten enough runs in both tests. Winning the toss has also been very helpful.

[/B]

That is all speculation. Amla and de Villiers are excellent players of spin too and despite the fact that one of them is in terrible form, they shouldn't be getting out for binary scores.
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I disagree. India literally threw away most of the important wickets this match. Besides, Morkel started our downfall, not the spinners.

Also, I disagree about the toss. Indian had South African batsmen struggling even on a Bangalore surface where 400 seemed like the par score, South Africa batted first there.

So far, both the teams have made pitches look a lot worse than they actually are.
 
Well done to India, haven't been able to watch the match but going by the score it has been a great bowling performance. But I must say RSA's time at the top might be over for a while yet and I know some people are blaming it being a rank turner but even then to be skittled for 79 is just not good enough for the top ranked team. Although in saying that they won't be top ranked for long looking at their current side. They are in full rebuild mode.
 
If a peak-form Steyn was playing, him & Morkel would have bowled out this Indian side below 150 with the reverse swing on offer.

Even though I was cheering India, Steyn's reverse swing spell in Nagpur was a treat to watch. He just destroyed India with a 7-fer.
 
Abhilash93 said:
If a peak-form Steyn was playing, him & Morkel would have bowled out this Indian side below 150 with the reverse swing on offer.

Even though I was cheering India, Steyn's reverse swing spell in Nagpur was a treat to watch. He just destroyed India with a 7-fer.
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He's not the same steyn anymore
 
LastManstanding said:
No they are not. Scoring runs asgainst spinners on green tops or flat decks is different from scoring runs on spinning tracks. Excellent players of spin will find a way to score runs on rank turners.

And if you dont believe me watch how Laxman played Warne in 2001.
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Spinning tracks are not the same as rank-turners. These guys have scored massive runs in Asia so it goes without saying that they are excellent players of spin.

Abhilash93 said:
The first innings par score is 250-300. Did you watch the first days play ?
Vijay, Kohli, Rahane and Jadeja lost their wickets to Morkel & Rabada, not the spinners.
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Yes, I did. Morkel bowled excellent and Rabada offered him good support. They used pace and reverse-swing to get the job done. It doesn't matter who took the wickets.
 
Zak_Fan said:
I disagree. India literally threw away most of the important wickets this match. Besides, Morkel started our downfall, not the spinners.

Also, I disagree about the toss. Indian had South African batsmen struggling even on a Bangalore surface where 400 seemed like the par score, South Africa batted first there.

So far, both the teams have made pitches look a lot worse than they actually are.
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Kohli got out to his established weakness outside off-stump, Rahane was trying to be aggressive but paid for it. However, it would be wrong to say that they threw away their wickets. They were all at see against Harmer and Elgar once again looked like a specialist spinner. You can thank the pitch for that.

India won the toss and bowled first, South Africa would have also liked to bowl first there, according to their captain. I've seen the Bangalore test being used as an example of the toss being irrelevant but it is laughable to say so. The skies were overcast and any team would have loved to bowl first and make use of the conditions.

India did get to 80/0 but they never batted against South Africa's pace attack on an overcast morning. I assure you that they would have been dismissed for 200 or less again, had rain not interrupted play.
 
Bilal7 said:
Kohli got out to his established weakness outside off-stump, Rahane was trying to be aggressive but paid for it. However, it would be wrong to say that they threw away their wickets. They were all at see against Harmer and Elgar once again looked like a specialist spinner. You can thank the pitch for that.

India won the toss and bowled first, South Africa would have also liked to bowl first there, according to their captain. I've seen the Bangalore test being used as an example of the toss being irrelevant but it is laughable to say so. The skies were overcast and any team would have loved to bowl first and make use of the conditions.

India did get to 80/0 but they never batted against South Africa's pace attack on an overcast morning. I assure you that they would have been dismissed for 200 or less again, had rain not interrupted play.
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Oh please bhai, now you are not even making sense.

Ashwin and Jadeja made use of the overcast skies and pitch with no-cracks? :facepalm:
 
Wow just tuned it looks like Saffers don't even want to be competitive.
 
Thankfully, I'm going on holiday and don't have to watch this any more :)))

Well played India. The ODI series was fun, the tests... not so much.
 
Zak_Fan said:
Oh please bhai, now you are not even making sense.

Ashwin and Jadeja made use of the overcast skies and pitch with no-cracks? :facepalm:
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I am giving you reasons about why India were 80/0; they didn't get exposed to the most difficult conditions on that first day. Had South Africa won the toss, they would have bowled first and the Indian batting would be in trouble. Understand?

Abhilash93 said:
So you did not watch the match yesterday!



Thats the problem with following on CI. You make an impression that may not always be entirely accurate.
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What is wrong with you? I watched the match, like I've already said.
 
Bilal7 said:
I am giving you reasons about why India were 80/0; they didn't get exposed to the most difficult conditions on that first day. Had South Africa won the toss, they would have bowled first and the Indian batting would be in trouble. Understand?



What is wrong with you? I watched the match, like I've already said.
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I could smell Rahane's nervousness 50 metres away in the stadium. He was looking scared ever since the start of the session, not aggresive at all. He had also edged the previous ball which fell short.
 
Big shock to the Saffers here, they used to be competitive on these pitches and they are getting killed. Good to see variety in pitches so I'm not going to hate on India for it, but I will say just LOL when anyone compares Ashwin's Test records. I reckon at least half of his wickets are from bowling on utter minefields.
 
Abhilash93 said:
I could smell Rahane's nervousness 50 metres away in the stadium. He was looking scared ever since the start of the session, not aggresive at all. He had also edged the previous ball which fell short.
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Rank turner but atrocious shots by SA batsmen.
 
Abhilash93 said:
I could smell Rahane's nervousness 50 metres away in the stadium. He was looking scared ever since the start of the session, not aggresive at all. He had also edged the previous ball which fell short.
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This. Rahane was so fidgety and unsure throughout that little innings. Morne was doing great with his new found (?) ability to reverse the ball (never seen him do that before)
 
What on earth is going on out there?
I've never seen anything like this, no contest between bat and ball. Bowlers have dominated this series. What a shame.
 
Random Aussie said:
Big shock to the Saffers here, they used to be competitive on these pitches and they are getting killed. Good to see variety in pitches so I'm not going to hate on India for it, but I will say just LOL when anyone compares Ashwin's Test records. I reckon at least half of his wickets are from bowling on utter minefields.
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Don't say it out loud because the Indians will get upset. They make fun of Australian batsmen for filling their shoes of runs at home but fail to acknowledge that their bowlers are doing the same thing with wickets.
 
This is downright pathetic. I'm all for home teams preparing pitches that aid their strengths, but this is taking it way too far.
 
We allowed the last 4 to add 90 runs which is were this game was lost. At 125/6 we should have wrapped it up 160 or so. Game of small margins, needed Steyn desperately.
A no ball cost us the 1st test as well. Twice we've allowed the tail to post 40+ runs from precarious positions in low scoring contests. [MENTION=97523]Buffet[/MENTION] how're you doing? :)
 
soso_killer said:
We allowed the last 4 to add 90 runs which is were this game was lost. At 125/6 we should have wrapped it up 160 or so. Game of small margins, needed Steyn desperately.
A no ball cost us the 1st test as well. Twice we've allowed the tail to post 40+ runs from precarious positions in low scoring contests.
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Tahir's wayward bowling in particular, on a very helpful conditions here didn't help SA much either. I felt he bowled way too many full tosses and pressure releasing deliveries at batsmen.
 
Bilal7 said:
Kohli got out to his established weakness outside off-stump, Rahane was trying to be aggressive but paid for it. However, it would be wrong to say that they threw away their wickets. They were all at see against Harmer and Elgar once again looked like a specialist spinner. You can thank the pitch for that.

India won the toss and bowled first, South Africa would have also liked to bowl first there, according to their captain. I've seen the Bangalore test being used as an example of the toss being irrelevant but it is laughable to say so. The skies were overcast and any team would have loved to bowl first and make use of the conditions.

India did get to 80/0 but they never batted against South Africa's pace attack on an overcast morning. I assure you that they would have been dismissed for 200 or less again, had rain not interrupted play.
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Do you have any clue what you're talking about?

Everyone including your god :amla was wondering why kohli opted to bowl that day and were berating him for the decision. Lol at overcast conditions, it was Ashwin and Jadeja who bailed him out from that decision. It's hilarious the extent you go to justifying the poor performance of Protea batsmen at Bangalore. Even the most one eyed parochial saffer fan wouldn't give out excuse for that performance. Only ABD played a good knock on a pitch that stayed true.
 
If Tahir doesn't get a bag full of wickets this innings I say ship him back to SA and play Piedt instead
 
If we end up scoring a 250 or so here it'll make a mockery of South Africa's batting 'effort'.
 
Mathew Hayden:

"@HaydosTweets: No this is not pitch tampering it is just called over prepared It is good to see turn just not so early https://t.co/vRs9fWbLXe"
"@HaydosTweets: We are saying the same thing, I am happy for wickets or runs to be scored but conditions must fair. https://t.co/WAELzmXDsV"
"@HaydosTweets: Quality of the wicket....I am a bit jet lagged but if I didn't know any better I would think I am watching day 6 https://t.co/iSi8mvwzKx"

Rubbish pitch really, a neutral bemoaning the deck.
 
Saffer_XIII said:
If Tahir doesn't get a bag full of wickets this innings I say ship him back to SA and play Piedt instead
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IIRC, Piedt did well in the recent SA A tour of India. Harmer OTOH, seems to be getting better with his control/flight/length (occasional half trackers not accounted for).
 
"@HaydosTweets: How disappointing it is to see the quality of Test Cricket reduced to what we are witnessing #INDvsSA [MENTION=45893]ST[/MENTION]arSportsIndia #justnotcricket"
 
Hope Matty Hayden stays consistent when Australia score 500/1 at the end of first day on Perth/MCG/SCG with warner and burns scoring a double ton each against the poor windies.
 
"@anandvasu: I’m sure the ICC chairman wants sporting pitches where Tests last 5 days. Perhaps he was overruled by the BCCI president. #INDvSA"
LOL the irony
 
soso_killer said:
What on earth is going on out there?
I've never seen anything like this, no contest between bat and ball. Bowlers have dominated this series. What a shame.
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What about that 50 all outs that SA dishes out to the visiting teams every now and then dude?
 
Yes the pitch is a bit over the top with its spin friendliness. A tall fast bowler being reduced to an off spinner is saddening. But the bottom line is our batting was shambolic. Amla, Du Plessis and Elgar got themselves out. We just looked timid out there. We've never been dominators but we've always showed grit. None of that here.
 
soso_killer said:
We allowed the last 4 to add 90 runs which is were this game was lost. At 125/6 we should have wrapped it up 160 or so. Game of small margins, needed Steyn desperately.
A no ball cost us the 1st test as well. Twice we've allowed the tail to post 40+ runs from precarious positions in low scoring contests. [MENTION=97523]Buffet[/MENTION] how're you doing? :)
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Don't rub it more man. So sad to see no one was able to score runs. Yah, it's a rank turner, but I have seen the likes of Kallis/SRT/VVS etc making runs on rank turners.

Agree that, we allowed too many runs after taking taking 6 wickets. Extra 80 runs were too much on this pitch. We missed Steyn too much.
 
Don't know why SA are using their pacers here. It's futile. I'm perplexed as to why they aren't using Elgar and Tahir, even in the 1st innings. Tahir has basically played this match as a nightwatchman.
 
Pujara is growing in confidence against all bowlers now.

Some really good shots from him (back to back boundaries)
 
street cricketer said:
Don't know why SA are using their pacers here. It's futile. I'm perplexed as to why they aren't using Elgar and Tahir, even in the 1st innings. Tahir has basically played this match as a nightwatchman.
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Poor from Amla here. If giving runs is an issue then a bowler shouldn't be playing in this test.

Not giving regular bowler overs is ridiculous on rank turner.
 
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