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Indian Army Chief warns Pakistan, says will choose the time and place to retaliate

i cant believe how stupid people are being here!
dont u guys realize that this is the ploy of the pakistani army to stage another coup
spike up tensions at the border,build up anti-india rheoteric and stage protests in the form of tahir ul qadri.qadri is nothing but a pawn in the hands of army
do even any pakistani's know that this year will be the last year of kayani as General of pak army?
perfect symptoms of a coup!!even after so many coup take overs pakistani's dont realize this:facepalm:
 
Read what i said again.

PoW and Army are 2 different things.

Sirjee, 1000 is about the size of force commanded by a Major/ Lt Col. You do know that Lt Gen Niazi was one of the Prisoners of War after he surrendered along with the entire Eastern Command. Don't tell me he was deputising as a major at the time.
 
i cant believe how stupid people are being here!
dont u guys realize that this is the ploy of the pakistani army to stage another coup
spike up tensions at the border,build up anti-india rheoteric and stage protests in the form of tahir ul qadri.qadri is nothing but a pawn in the hands of army
do even any pakistani's know that this year will be the last year of kayani as General of pak army?
perfect symptoms of a coup!!even after so many coup take overs pakistani's dont realize this:facepalm:

All we want is Lance Naik Hemrajs head back.... And a promise that they will punish the people involved in committing this barabaric act... How hard it can be... Pakistan just needs to accept it, esquire the matter with full honesty and punish the people involved....
Instead all it did was call it a baseless unfounded allegation and take it as a opportunity to drag UN in Kashmir...

And about Army Coup, civilaian government... Its their internal issues along with Uncle Sam and British Masters... Pakistan is just a neibghbouring country for us.
Hamari itani aukaat nahi ki ham oonake khidkiyon mein jhaanke...
 
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How stupid is that demand?

You guys won't accept the "honesty" of the investigation until its findings agree with your version of the story. There is no justification for India to reject an independent investigation. Clearly India has something to hide.

As far as I am concerned the Pakistani rangers need to be supplied with sniper riffles.
 
Situation is simple. India can't do anything.

Its pathetic really. If I was Indian I'd be ashamed that my country is impotent to act.
 
All we want is Lance Naik Hemrajs head back.... And a promise that they will punish the people involved in committing this barabaric act... How hard it can be... Pakistan just needs to accept it, esquire the matter with full honesty and punish the people involved....
Instead all it did was call it a baseless unfounded allegation and take it as a opportunity to drag UN in Kashmir...

And about Army Coup, civilaian government... Its their internal issues along with Uncle Sam and British Masters... Pakistan is just a neibghbouring country for us.
Hamari itani aukaat nahi ki ham oonake khidkiyon mein jhaanke...

sorry but we've stuck it on a pike outside president hosue so you cant have it. Youll have to sort a visa out and go and get it from zardari.

Stupidity and propaganda from india continues! we didnt behead him and dont have the bloody head. I suggest you check your own army holdalls!!

More propaganda brought to you by the people who gave us the unknown group and the fake terrorists from lahore. Plz
 
sorry but we've stuck it on a pike outside president hosue so you cant have it. Youll have to sort a visa out and go and get it from zardari.

Stupidity and propaganda from india continues! we didnt behead him and dont have the bloody head. I suggest you check your own army holdalls!!

More propaganda brought to you by the people who gave us the unknown group and the fake terrorists from lahore. Plz

:20: All ten of them should be given medals for putting it on the pike by Zardari. What a logic..... :facepalm:

Just to refresh your memory, it was absolute denial that we got from Pakistan immediately after Mumbai 2008.... Only later it backtracked on it... Foot in the mouth.....
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/04/world/asia/04mumbai.html
or
http://tribune.com.pk/story/289642/ajmal-kasab-should-be-hanged-malik/
Finally its their opinion that matters and viewed as fact.. Not a baseless statement like yours on PP... :snack:

So, My dear friend, on this case as well, I wouldn't be that judgmental....
 
again to all: why India refuse to have an idepedent investigation by UN.
 
:20: All ten of them should be given medals for putting it on the pike by Zardari. What a logic..... :facepalm:

Just to refresh your memory, it was absolute denial that we got from Pakistan immediately after Mumbai 2008.... Only later it backtracked on it... Foot in the mouth.....
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/04/world/asia/04mumbai.html
or
http://tribune.com.pk/story/289642/ajmal-kasab-should-be-hanged-malik/
Finally its their opinion that matters and viewed as fact.. Not a baseless statement like yours on PP... :snack:

So, My dear friend, on this case as well, I wouldn't be that judgmental....

What about killing your own and blame it on pakistan on multiple occasion, bring in UN investigator......
 
Let me refresh

Malegaon blast, , India blames Pakistan
Turns out it was Lieutenant Colonel Srikant and Swami Aseemanand

Samjohta Express, India blames Pakistan
Turns out it was Lieutenant Colonel Srikant and Swami Aseemanand

Mecca Masjid Bombing, India blames Pakistan
Then backtracks and says probably RSS

Pune blast, India blames foreign elements
Turns out it was the Bhatkal brothers or Indian Mujahidin

Malegaon blast II, India blames Pakistan
Turns out to ABVP
 
Dude I am with you when you calling for peace as war only harms the common people of both our countries. The problem is not the killing but beheading, which is a war crime. Some section of Indian media do sensationalize things, I agree, but we know where to look and what to read, I am sure the escalation will come down once the head of martyred soldier Lance Naik Hemraj is returned, then they can have a flag meeting and discuss whose fault it is and whom to punish, key is returning the severed head of our soldier to his family, its a big thing dude.

Indians killing their own soldier is just another conspiracy, don't go down that line, no army does that. This is like 3rd beheading in the last 2 years.

The only thing we know for sure is India started it. Rest are all consipiracy theories, especially beheading unless they have proper evidence.
 
India does not gain anything by firing at Pakistanis soldiers.
Its Pakistani soldiers who fire at Indian troops to secure infiltrators.
 
Latest from the Indian army spokesperson:

Indian and Pakistani armed forces agreed to defuse tension on LOC issue.

Finally a good and sensible move.
 
Because it's a bilateral matter. Why is it so difficult to understand?

Are you that illogical?

Where in the world is a murderer allowed to do his own investigations? How will the murderer say "yeah, it's my fault, i killed the person and here is the evidence supporting my investigations"?

Hence why a UN investigation should be allowed and India shouldn't be scared if they didn't do it but it would seem India is responsible, hence why they are not agreeing to UN investigation.
 
Jai Singh, the martyr’s brother, who is also on a hunger strike, also sounded a note of doubt. “What was brought to us was a body covered in white sheet. Now it could be anyone’s body. We were not allowed to see what was inside,” he said, highlighting that he has spent his childhood with Hemraj and knew that he had a mole on the back.

“I would have checked it but they didn’t allow me to do that,” he added.


what kind of army doesnt even let the deads own relatives see the body before burial/cremation? something to hide perhaps?
 
Because it's a bilateral matter. Why is it so difficult to understand?

so bilateral matter:

one say, you did, other say you did it, and this turn most of you in keyboard soldiers, it is bilateral syndrome, you are right.
 
Then why did they kill first?

The question is who started firing first, not who started killing first. Its obvious pak soldiers open fire to secure a way for infiltrators who in turn do all sort of terrorist acts in Kashmir.
 
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so bilateral matter:

one say, you did, other say you did it, and this turn most of you in keyboard soldiers, it is bilateral syndrome, you are right.

Two words for you. SHIMLA ACCORD. This was signed after 1971 war and inked by Indira Gandhi and Bhutto. It basically laid the framework that any future Indo-Pak relation issues would be driven by this accord. You can look it up if you like.
 
In last 4- 5 days their has been so much in Pakistan that i couldnt believe it was all coincidence...Heard the interview of FM Hina Khar.... This is what I could make..

American are after some haqqani network... Or atleast they want network to become friendly to them....
Their is some report which is coming sooon in Pakistani parliament that might implicate Haqqani network, Kayani and ISI as band of brothers...
Kayani has to threaten Zardari so that he can get the clean chit or may be ensure relationship isnt broken with the network (Whatever kayani thinks is in his/Pakistan 's interest).... America has to ensure Pakistani Army stop supporting Haqqanis...
What happens next
India to fire at Pakistani soldiers, America/Kayani (unlikely to affect India) probably America/Kayani managed to provoke India.... So special forces behead one of our soldiers. Now who ordered these special forces i cant figure out (kayani or America via Pakistan)... Apparently similar beheading of Indian Army happened in 2011 but this time news was leaked to Indian media....



HaIn the mean time Qadari backed by kayani reaches in Islamabad...Bomb blasts and Hazara unrest...SC orders arrest of Pakistani premier... All the while Hina barters a deal with Americans about what goes in the report and Pakistan response towards American War on terror. American probably dont want kayanis resignation (they will wait) but definitely want PA to distance Haqqani. Pakistan dont want sever its ties with Haqqanis but promises not to use against Americans.. Job Done....

Feel sorry for the 5 jawans killed and 120+ deaths of Shias.
 
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Singham said:
Two words for you. SHIMLA ACCORD. This was signed after 1971 war and inked by Indira Gandhi and Bhutto. It basically laid the framework that any future Indo-Pak relation issues would be driven by this accord. You can look it up if you like
Eight words for you "Stop mindlessly reproducing soundbites from the Indian media"

(ii) That the two countries are resolved to settle their differences by peaceful means through bilateral negotiations or by any other peaceful means mutually agreed upon between them. Pending the final settlement of any of the problems between the two countries, neither side shall unilaterally alter the situation and both shall prevent the organization, assistance or encouragement of any acts detrimental to the maintenance of peaceful and harmonious relations.
Pakistan is requesting the "any other peaceful means".

Also stop hiding behind this stupid bilateral argument. How does the resolve anything? To resolve the matter we need an investigation which both countries are satisfied with. This investigation obviously cannot be lead by Pakistan or India. Pakistan has already completed their investigation.

Also India isn't exactly living by the agreement when they refuse to discuss Kashmir.

Both Governments agree that their respective Heads will meet again at a mutually convenient time in the future and that, in the meanwhile, the representatives of the two sides will meet to discuss further the modalities and arrangements for the establishment of a durable peace and normalization of relations, including the questions of repatriation of prisoners of war and civilian internees, a final settlement of Jammu and Kashmir and the resumption of displomatic relations.

Also
(II) Both Governments will take all steps within their power to prevent hostile propaganda direcdted against each other.

Both countries will encourage the dissemination of such information as would promote the development of friendly relations between them;


Don't bring up the shimla accord if your country can't live upto it.
 
In last 4- 5 days their has been so much in Pakistan that i couldnt believe it was all coincidence...Heard the interview of FM Hina Khar.... This is what I could make..

American are after some haqqani network... Or atleast they want network to become friendly to them....
Their is some report which is coming sooon in Pakistani parliament that might implicate Haqqani network, Kayani and ISI as band of brothers...
Kayani has to threaten Zardari so that he can get the clean chit or may be ensure relationship isnt broken with the network (Whatever kayani thinks is in his/Pakistan 's interest).... America has to ensure Pakistani Army stop supporting Haqqanis...
What happens next
India to fire at Pakistani soldiers, America/Kayani (unlikely to affect India) probably America/Kayani managed to provoke India.... So special forces behead one of our soldiers. Now who ordered these special forces i cant figure out (kayani or America via Pakistan)... Apparently similar beheading of Indian Army happened in 2011 but this time news was leaked to Indian media....



HaIn the mean time Qadari backed by kayani reaches in Islamabad...Bomb blasts and Hazara unrest...SC orders arrest of Pakistani premier... All the while Hina barters a deal with Americans about what goes in the report and Pakistan response towards American War on terror. American probably dont want kayanis resignation (they will wait) but definitely want PA to distance Haqqani. Pakistan dont want sever its ties with Haqqanis but promises not to use against Americans.. Job Done....

Feel sorry for the 5 jawans killed and 120+ deaths of Shias.

So why is india refusing to have UN investigation? Because amreeka told them not to?
 
president of the UN Security Council is from pakistan.So pakistan foreign minister wanted a UN investigation to use this opportunity to highlight the kashmir issue
 
Eight words for you "Stop mindlessly reproducing soundbites from the Indian media"


Pakistan is requesting the "any other peaceful means".

Also stop hiding behind this stupid bilateral argument. How does the resolve anything? To resolve the matter we need an investigation which both countries are satisfied with. This investigation obviously cannot be lead by Pakistan or India. Pakistan has already completed their investigation.

Also India isn't exactly living by the agreement when they refuse to discuss Kashmir.

Both Governments agree that their respective Heads will meet again at a mutually convenient time in the future and that, in the meanwhile, the representatives of the two sides will meet to discuss further the modalities and arrangements for the establishment of a durable peace and normalization of relations, including the questions of repatriation of prisoners of war and civilian internees, a final settlement of Jammu and Kashmir and the resumption of displomatic relations.

Also
(II) Both Governments will take all steps within their power to prevent hostile propaganda direcdted against each other.

Both countries will encourage the dissemination of such information as would promote the development of friendly relations between them;


Don't bring up the shimla accord if your country can't live upto it.

I understand Pakistan's eagerness take Kashmir issue to UN level and globalize it. It will never happen. Esp. what happened after 9/11. Western world have different view towards terrorism. Try ur might. It will not succeed.
 
hain jee? why not? happens everywhere else for identification! except in thsi case where they obviously want to hide something! who knows who they cremated?

We don't hide anything dude. Its pakistan's so called barbaric military which is hiding a soldier's head. Watch this video and learn how Indian army treated pak soldier's dead body after we won our land.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IS8cKBgNsOI
 
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Ok, so India can' t go to UN, now what are they going to do beside whinge in media?
 
I understand Pakistan's eagerness take Kashmir issue to UN level and globalize it. It will never happen. Esp. what happened after 9/11. Western world have different view towards terrorism. Try ur might. It will not succeed.

Not kashmir issue, beheading of the soldier, two totally different issue
 
and where did Pakistan want UN investigators to investigate? come again?

Of course at moon, but if i am UN investigator i would start where the soldier was beheaded, wouldn't waste my time and money to travel the moon.
 
Of course at moon, but if i am UN investigator i would start where the soldier was beheaded, wouldn't waste my time and money to travel the moon.
P M of india believed in strong bilateral ties with pakistan.He showed faith in pak civilian goverment even after mumbai terrorist attack.Pakistans call for a UN investigation without any meaningful bilateral talks also surprised him
 
You f-ucking a-hole. The terrorist acts your army is doing in Kashmir. Do you have any idea? If you are a wee bit human you would condemn your god damn army.

I can use the same language u use dude. Watch ur language or get abused by the same language. As far as our Army is concerned, If pak stops exporting terrorism to kashmir, Indian army would be withdrawn without a doubt.
 
Of course at moon, but if i am UN investigator i would start where the soldier was beheaded, wouldn't waste my time and money to travel the moon.

Great job figuring it out. Now all you have to do is figure-out whats the Indian policy in allowing a third party into Kashmir? + how many beheading(s) happened from 2011 and who did it? best of luck.
 
Guys please keep the chat civil - inappropriate language and abuse towards other members will not be tolerated!
 
Great job figuring it out. Now all you have to do is figure-out whats the Indian policy in allowing a third party into Kashmir? + how many beheading(s) happened from 2011 and who did it? best of luck.

figuring out? it is basic knowledge when it comes to investigation, but thanks for your approval i guess. Indian Policy, shouldn't you be blaming Indian government for this, why blame Pakistan if Indian policy will not to allow to have UN investigator to investigate, clearly either side will blame each other and deny any verdict that blame each other, so again, why is India refusing to have UN investigator to investigate? is it because they have something to hide. Not having UN present in Kashmir is understandable because Indian Army has to hide its atrocities such as rape, killing of young and innocents, but if India claim that Pakistani has beheaded these soldiers, why not bring UN, and if it has been happening since 2011 then India has a strong case to prove the world Pakistani army is involved. Now why wouldn't India media bring this up in every program, this has all the recipe for Indian media to gain some viewers, this is a win win situation for India unless they have something to hide.
 
figuring out? it is basic knowledge when it comes to investigation, but thanks for your approval i guess. Indian Policy, shouldn't you be blaming Indian government for this, why blame Pakistan if Indian policy will not to allow to have UN investigator to investigate, clearly either side will blame each other and deny any verdict that blame each other, so again, why is India refusing to have UN investigator to investigate? is it because they have something to hide. Not having UN present in Kashmir is understandable because Indian Army has to hide its atrocities such as rape, killing of young and innocents, but if India claim that Pakistani has beheaded these soldiers, why not bring UN, and if it has been happening since 2011 then India has a strong case to prove the world Pakistani army is involved. Now why wouldn't India media bring this up in every program, this has all the recipe for Indian media to gain some viewers, this is a win win situation for India unless they have something to hide.

UN investigation is a ruse, next thing you know Pakistan will call for UN peacekeeping force citing this very case. <-> this is the answer for your neverending loop question, 1000th time?
Indian army don't use rape as a tactics & unlike other countries, it doesn't behead enemy soldiers like some barbaric 7th century militia. <-> this is a propaganda piece included because you included such things about Indian army in your post above

Proof? what more proof you want than the grieving family of martyred Lance Naik Hemraj? You know we tried this way with Mumbai attacks, you know how it went?

Indian army and all of India is just asking Pakistan army to return the head of martyred Lance Naik Hemraj, thats all, we don't want to prove the world Pakistan army is involved in such & such things, thats not our job.
 
Tension has been diffused, all to be forgotten soon. Well done Congress for diverting our attention to this for 2 weeks.
 
UN investigation is a ruse, next thing you know Pakistan will call for UN peacekeeping force citing this very case. <-> this is the answer for your neverending loop question, 1000th time?
Indian army don't use rape as a tactics & unlike other countries, it doesn't behead enemy soldiers like some barbaric 7th century militia. <-> this is a propaganda piece included because you included such things about Indian army in your post above

Proof? what more proof you want than the grieving family of martyred Lance Naik Hemraj? You know we tried this way with Mumbai attacks, you know how it went?

Indian army and all of India is just asking Pakistan army to return the head of martyred Lance Naik Hemraj, thats all, we don't want to prove the world Pakistan army is involved in such & such things, thats not our job.

If India is 100% sure that Pakistani military had committed those crime then how can Pakistani military call UN peace keeping force, it will be India if India is willing to call them.

interesting, so you are saying that those in Kashmir who has been raped by Indian army are lying? why not believe them? just because they are kashmiri so they are liar? or Pakistani army dressed up as Indian and raped those poor innocent women? pick one, or you can add more options and pick those.

grieving family does not proof that Indian soldier was beheaded by Pakistani military, it only proof that they have emotions, i think you have failed to understand what proof is, and how it is applied in different situation.

lets see if you can make little bit more sense in your next post. good luck
 
looks like this thread has a war of its own going on
BTW on TV last night their was a debate between a Indian army man and a Pakistani admiral i didn't watch t but i heard things got quite heated .
 
So, u expect to not fire back if they are shot at?


According to indian newspapers it was india who created the drama after they lost the cricket series

Pakistan has it's soldiers dying left, right and centre at the moment, due to blatant terrorism, indian soldiers fire first on innocent kashmiris too, it's not like they don't have a track record for it
 
If India is 100% sure that Pakistani military had committed those crime then how can Pakistani military call UN peace keeping force, it will be India if India is willing to call them.
As I said the whole 'involving UN in Kashmir' is a ruse. Why not offer to investigate on its own, you know the first thing Pakistan did was sending its envoys to EU, USA and called for UN investigation, its all pre-planned.

interesting, so you are saying that those in Kashmir who has been raped by Indian army are lying? why not believe them? just because they are kashmiri so they are liar? or Pakistani army dressed up as Indian and raped those poor innocent women? pick one, or you can add more options and pick those.

I am saying less no. of rape happened in Kashmir than in any other part of the world. This is just a propaganda piece usually written for/by those Jihadi warriors, beheaders, to embolden youth and brainwash them into committing atrocities inside Indian territory. Indian army never order/ordered its men to rape its own citizens, its never been done in our history and am sure will never be done. Individuals who are responsible for the crime have been punished, we are not the one in denial. Now if you want to talk more about this propaganda, I suggest you to open a new thread or re-open one of the countless threads about this.

grieving family does not proof that Indian soldier was beheaded by Pakistani military, it only proof that they have emotions, i think you have failed to understand what proof is, and how it is applied in different situation.

So you need a video recording, HD maybe?

Let me tell you a story, two soldiers went to patrol one of the most volatile borders where its not possible for common men or women to enter, those two soldiers got killed and one got beheaded. Now if UN investigator wants to find proof, he/she must investigate Pakistan generals quarters and army camps, probably the severed head is hanging there as a trophy!!

lets see if you can make little bit more sense in your next post. good luck
All we ask for is our soldier's head back. Pakistan is the ones keep bringing Kashmir in to this, they are the ones playing it in international media.
 
Looks like Pak have agreed to investigate this matter. That's a positive.
 
In 2000 Indian army killed 37 sikhs and blamed Pakistan. Nanak Singh who survived told the media that after killing them they shouted Hindu slogans and were drunk. They did all this just before Clinton visit to prove the point.

And winning 4 wars is biggest BS ever. lol

What the hell man!!!!! :facepalm:
You are blabbering the same thing again and again. GIVE US JUST 1 CREDIBLE PROOF.
I can show you dozens sources (many neutrals also from RIANOVOSTI/ BBC about those incidents and the Lashkars aka terrorists. Please STF...U or else we Indians can also start saying the same about the countless bomb blasts throughout Pakistan.
 
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The level of maturity shown by Congress is miles better than that of the Army, Media and the main opposition party.
Whatever statement Army makes is what government want them to make... And It is Congress government....
But I am still unsure who and why the news was leaked to media....
 
All we ask for is our soldier's head back. Pakistan is the ones keep bringing Kashmir in to this, they are the ones playing it in international media.

So if india commit crime it is propaganda against india regardless of how much evidence is there, and they call us conspiracy nutts, lets see if you can try again, good luck.
 
The question is who started firing first, not who started killing first. Its obvious pak soldiers open fire to secure a way for infiltrators who in turn do all sort of terrorist acts in Kashmir.

It is obvious that India should stop exporting their own terrorism by directly shooting at civilians on the line of control, disturbing people's lives and routines, stop using the excuse of infiltrators trying to cross over when they are very much trigger happy soldiers just itching to shoot. Pak army has every rights to retaliate against this form of terrorism.

I am not even talking about mortar fire, this is purely intentional and indiscriminate firing using small arms and automatic weapons against the civilian population from where Indian armed forces sit in their high vantage bunker posts and continuously prey upon their latest victims.

Whilst you may read it in the news about civilians being killed, most of you will brush it off as another victim of crossfiring but being there and seeing it for myself, this is definitely terrorism which doesn't get broadcasted on to the news. Why is it when they can clearly see where Pakistani forward posts are that they start shooting at people's homes, transports and of course civilians which are miles away from those posts?

Just hope one day neutral reporters or locals start showing the ground realities rather than the war mongering rubbish that is spurted out by the Indian media.

Thank god it hasn't escalated otherwise it's the locals on both sides of the LOC that suffer the most.
 
Well, I think Indian media and posters are so desperate for the rest of the world to believe the following:

India = always truthful and innocent like a newborn (maybe it should become a universal constant) ....
 
http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?283606

Cheap Logomachy
How reports on border skirmishes have skimmed details for sensation
SHIVAM VIJ

When the Pakistan foreign office summoned the Indian deputy high commissioner to protest against the killing of one of its soldiers on January 6 in an unprovoked cross-border raid, New Delhi said nothing much had happened. The Indian army had merely opened fire to thwart an infiltration attempt from the Pakistani side. An infiltration attempt at the height of snow, and in the midst of a diplomatic thaw? The Pakistani army is at it again, the Indian media concluded, they scuttle peace every time. “Pakistan violates ceasefire, yet again,” said Mail Today.

On the morning of January 8, there was another incident. This time, India said two of its soldiers had been killed in a cross-border raid. Pakistan denied it. Curiously, the Indian media went to town with the word “beheading” in the headlines; but the reports did not give details of the decapitation—no official quote, no name of the beheaded soldier and so on.

A statement issued by Rajesh K. Kalia, spokesman for the Indian army’s Northern Command, called it “yet another grave provocation”. But many headlines ignored the “yet another”. Kalia’s statement said: “Two soldiers, Lance Naik Hemraj and Lance Naik Sudhakar Singh, laid down their lives while fighting the Pak troops.” But, take note, it did not make any mention of the bodies being mutilated or beheaded.

So how was the media going to town with reports of mutilation or beheading? The Hindu attributed it to “sources”. NDTV’s defence correspondent attributed the information to “senior army sources”, and the Hindustan Times to “a top army official not wishing to be named”. This report said the headless body was that of Lance Naik Sudhakar Singh; it later turned out to be Hemraj Singh. A PTI report named its source: Brig J.K. Tiwari, deputy commander of the 25th Division. According to Tiwari, “one head was severed and another body was beheaded. It (the head of a jawan) has not been recovered... probably, they have taken it along with them”. (Was the severing of a head different from a beheading? Was one person beheaded, or two? Never mind the details.) The missing head, the report said, was of Lance Naik Sudhakar Singh.

You cannot blame the media for this confusion, which lasted at least two days, because there was no official word. But at least one reporter, Dean Nelson of the London Telegraph, thought it important to call up the Indian army’s chief spokesperson, G.L. Narasimhan, who said one body had been mutilated but he could not confirm if there was a beheading.

I looked for official confirmation of the beheading in, for instance, the defence minister’s statement on January 9 but there was none. By evening that day, Reuters quoted Kalia, saying there was no beheading. On the same day, Pakistan asked the United Nations to investigate the January 6 incident and asked India to also seek an investigation of the January 8 incident to prove the charges it was levelling. But India refused. By January 10, Indian army officers were talking about the beheading on TV news but there still was no official statement.

It was only after Pakistan officially pointed out that India hadn’t officially said that a soldier had been beheaded that Col Jagdeep Dahiya, a spokesman for the defence ministry, issued a statement: “It is clarified that Pakistan has quoted the initial press release given by the spokesman of Indian army’s Northern Command, on 08 Jan 2012, when the details of the incident were still not clear.... Subsequently, on the same day, the Indian army made a statement that the body of one soldier was mutilated. Both these statements were made based on information available at the time of making those statements...it is reiterated that the body of one soldier was found mutilated and beheaded, the body of [the] second soldier was also mutilated.” It went on to say that earlier statements did not mention the decapitation because there wasn’t enough clarity. In other words, it took the Indian defence establishment four days to confirm whether or not a soldier was beheaded.

The best confirmation of the beheading could have been from the unfortunate family of the soldier. But the media downplayed why the family of Lance Naik Hemraj Singh sat on hunger strike. A report in The Hindu quoted his brother: “What was brought to us was a body covered in a white sheet. Now, it could be anyone’s body! We were not allowed to see what was inside,” he said, highlighting that he had spent his childhood with Hemraj and knew that his brother had a mole on the back. “I would have checked it, but they didn’t allow me to do that.”

What does all this say about the Indian defence establishment? It first told us of the decapitation by letting the news slip out through anonymous sources; then, it refused to confirm whether there had been a decapitation; then again, it said there had been a decapitation; and once again said there wasn’t one before denying its denial. The media did not question the establishment on its tying itself up in knots.

News reports—this time from unnamed civilian sources—that gave an alternative narrative did not have much of an impact on the war-mongering on TV news, which some say is itself becoming a national security hazard. The Hindu’s grandmother story was the most important of these narratives. The report said that a grandmother who crossed the LoC to be with her family raised alarm bells on the Indian side and the Indian army started building observation bunkers in violation of the 2003 ceasefire agreement. This was the root cause of the escalation of tension on the LoC. Various details proferred in this story were denied by the defence ministry but not this part: “Last year...two Indian soldiers were beheaded in an attack on a forward position by a Border Action Team (of Pakistan).” Indian special forces responded by targeting a Pakistani forward post, killing several soldiers, said the report, and, by the account of one military official, which The Hindu could not corroborate independently, beheaded two. Saikat Datta’s report in the DNA said that it was the Indian army that started this round of hostilities, and by now, everybody had forgotten the claim that militant infiltration was responsible for the January 6 incident.

Buried inside a report by Shishir Gupta in the Hindustan Times was the claim that two Indian soldiers were beheaded in July 2011 and “three months later, heads of three Pakistani soldiers went missing, with Islamabad lodging a protest with New Delhi.” Don’t you love it that while Indian soldiers are beheaded, Pakistani soldiers’ heads go “missing”—as though they detach themselves from the bodies of the soldiers and just disappear? The report also claimed that similar beheadings (of Indian soldiers) and heads going missing (of Pakistanis) had taken place in 2000, 2003 and 2007. When Admiral Lakshminarayan Ramdas (retd), former chief of the Indian navy, tried to say on Barkha Dutt’s show on NDTV that the Indian army has also beheaded Pakistani soldiers, he was cut short by Dutt. But in 2001, Dutt had herself written that she had seen a head displayed as a war trophy by the Indian army during the Kargil war in 1999. Two other journalists were not shy of recalling similar experiences: Sankarshan Thakur of The Telegraph (on his website) and Harinder Baweja of the Hindustan Times on Twitter.

If these incidents happen so often, why did anonymous sources in the Indian army decide to use the defence correspondents to make it seem like an unprecedented provocation from Pakistan? There is little doubt that the beheading of a soldier, and the taking away of his head as a war trophy is sickening and outrageous and every such incident should come to light. But it should also remind us of the brutalities of war, and that the LoC is a ceasefire line where hostilities have merely been halted until the next battle; that the two armies stand eye-to-eye there because of the Kashmir dispute; that Jammu and Kashmir is not a settled question. Such thoughts are apparently anti-national. And bad for TRPs.
 
Well, I think Indian media and posters are so desperate for the rest of the world to believe the following:

India = always truthful and innocent like a newborn (maybe it should become a universal constant) ....

Issue between us now is kashmir.Our armed forces don't fire at each regularly at each other in other border areas.Pakistan can prove indian media wrong by presenting sufficient evidence in front of world media.I hadn't seen pak civilian goverment or army providing any evidence to media to prove indian forces actually violated the cease fire agreement
 
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It would be like opening the gates of Hell for themselves...We have more Mullahs,Mujaheddin,Taliban,Lashkars than our military.....It would be better for them not to tease us...There is no dearth of talent here when it comes to fight...
 
It would be like opening the gates of Hell for themselves...We have more Mullahs,Mujaheddin,Taliban,Lashkars than our military.....It would be better for them not to tease us...There is no dearth of talent here when it comes to fight...
Aren't these guys causing enough troubles with in pakistan with the help of CIA,MOSSAD,RAW
 
Well, I think Indian media and posters are so desperate for the rest of the world to believe the following:

India = always truthful and innocent like a newborn (maybe it should become a universal constant) ....

Says someone who comes from a country where all attacks in the US and India are termed as staged drama by the majority.
 
All we ask for is our soldier's head back. Pakistan is the ones keep bringing Kashmir in to this, they are the ones playing it in international media.

I think getting that wont do anything for either country and infanct if Pakistan still has it then it will raise more tensions. It's best both countries move and work out something which makes sure that these useless clashes don't happen anymore and people don't die on either side.
 
Says someone who comes from a country where all attacks in the US and India are termed as staged drama by the majority.

If you closely watch american media and a lot of videos on youtube (in the past), you would see a lot of americans believed that 9/11 was inside job. and of course some one like you would rather not to believe it. couple of things for the india:

1. india is 10 X pakistan - so should not worry in any way (logically)

2. if india wants to taken as the super power of that region, then has to act like one - should have big heart and mind and take some practical actions- which india lacks big time
 
Issue between us now is kashmir.Our armed forces don't fire at each regularly at each other in other border areas.Pakistan can prove indian media wrong by presenting sufficient evidence in front of world media.I hadn't seen pak civilian goverment or army providing any evidence to media to prove indian forces actually violated the cease fire agreement

jan 6th by all accounts if you don't count the construction work around charonda before then
 
Aren't these guys causing enough troubles with in pakistan with the help of CIA,MOSSAD,RAW

Yep,there are different players,with different motives,few ones who are responsible for bomb blasts,suicide attacks are supported by agencies and most are anti-America and anti-India.......Indians would be more stupid to avert their attention towards themselves...

This is one thing at which we are most talented....:2gunsfiri
 
Issue between us now is kashmir.Our armed forces don't fire at each regularly at each other in other border areas.Pakistan can prove indian media wrong by presenting sufficient evidence in front of world media.I hadn't seen pak civilian goverment or army providing any evidence to media to prove indian forces actually violated the cease fire agreement

Pakistan should never prove anything to the Indian media. There are so many lies and anti-Pakistan propaganda being dished out regularly it will be totally pointless even if they wanted to prove something as it will be twisted to suit Indias agenda and position.

The BBC clearly reported who started the latest skirmish. Now was any of this at least debated and reported in the Indian news media ? Of course not.

Pakistan army has some rogue elements, no doubt they may have started some skirmishes in the past but I never ever hear or read any Indian criticising thier army or the crimes commited by thier security/police services in Kashmir.

Its one thing to be patriotic but another to be so blind by nationalism you close your ears or eyes to any criticism you don't like to hear or read.
 
Don't be too sentimental no one is stupid in this world to ever give body without head in order to invite fighting. That's a propaganda whether you agree with or not?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
 
Indian army even said no to the option of UN to investigate the matter. Why?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
 
The beheading of an Indian soldier on the LoC and the mutilation of another were undoubtedly unacceptable and unpardonable. This was barbaric behaviour. The anger and revulsion it’s provoked is understandable. There’s no denying that. However, there’s one question we need to ask but
mainly failed to raise. Have we ever been guilty of similar behaviour ourselves?

From what I can tell the answer seems to be yes. On the 10th, The Hindu reported that last year, during a skirmish at Karnah, “Indian Special Forces responded by attacking a Pakistani forward post, killing several soldiers, and by the account of one military official which The Hindu could not corroborate independently, beheaded two.”

What makes this claim credible is that it’s reported by military sources who not only ought to know but would not denigrate the reputation of Indian soldiers.

Alas, there’s more evidence. This time from eye-witnesses.

In her ‘Confessions of a War Reporter’, published in June 2001 by Himal, a well-known Nepalese magazine, Barkha Dutt recounted how she witnessed a decapitated Pakistani soldier’s head at Kargil. This is what she wrote: “I had to look three times to make sure I was seeing right … “Look again,” said the army colonel, in a tone that betrayed suppressed excitement. This time, I finally saw. It was a head, the disembodied face of a slain soldier nailed onto a tree. “The boys got it as a gift for the brigade,” said the colonel, softly, but proudly.”

Harinder Baweja, the editor (Investigation) of this paper, witnessed something similar. This is the account from her book A Soldier’s Diary, Kargil — The Inside Story: “The experiences of 18 Garhwal show another side of the war … one of them took out his knife and slit the head of a Pakistani soldier in one stroke. The head was sent to Brigade Headquarters at Drass and pinned to a tree trunk … the enemy head, a grisly trophy, became an exhibition piece. Major General Puri came down from Mughalpura to see it. Other officers dropped in to Brigade Headquarters to take a look. So did some journalists … it was there pinned on the tree for anyone who could bear to look at it.”

So is this proof that Indian soldiers, both in the recent past and during Kargil, have done to Pakistanis what they did to our jawans last week? The Hindu report is clearly not proof.

On the other hand, what Barkha and Harinder saw seems like it. They are eye-witnesses. They’re highly regarded journalists. They have a reputation for telling the truth. More importantly, they have no reason to lie.

However, my intention is not to establish moral equivalence between Indian and Pakistani soldiers, although some might come to that conclusion. It’s to ask why did the media, other than The Hindu, not point this out? You can’t argue it was irrelevant information. More importantly, it would have put a different complexion on the decapitation of our soldiers. And, certainly, it would have tempered the furious discussions on television.

As journalists we owe our audience not just the truth but both sides of it when that’s pertinent. To not be evenhanded is to leave them half-informed.

In this instance, we whipped up passions when we should have helped audiences realise the LoC is a tough place, where brutal actions often happen and both sides retaliate in equally gruesome ways.

When tempers cool and time lends perspective, our audience won’t forgive us for half-truths.


http://www.hindustantimes.com/News-Feed/KaranThapar/The-lines-of-control/Article1-995289.aspx

the holy bharti army has a history of beheading pakistani soldiers ...REPORTED BY THERE OWN NEWS PAPER

its amazing how every indian channel i tune into is busy brainwashing the public to hate pakistan ..it has become there favorite past time ...anti pakistan dogs can bark at pakistan for as along as they can ..fact is pakistan is here to stay :anwara
 
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Pakistan should never prove anything to the Indian media. There are so many lies and anti-Pakistan propaganda being dished out regularly it will be totally pointless even if they wanted to prove something as it will be twisted to suit Indias agenda and position.
I can assume only one thing from your post that pak civilian goverment or army is showing unwillingness to share the details with media.Its not that easy to twist reports with proper evidence.

The BBC clearly reported who started the latest skirmish. Now was any of this at least debated and reported in the Indian news media ? Of course not.
Do you have any idea about the exact source of BBC report ?
 
^some lines:

In her ‘Confessions of a War Reporter’, published in June 2001 by Himal, a well-known Nepalese magazine, Barkha Dutt recounted how she witnessed a decapitated Pakistani soldier’s head at Kargil. This is what she wrote: “I had to look three times to make sure I was seeing right … “Look again,” said the army colonel, in a tone that betrayed suppressed excitement. This time, I finally saw. It was a head, the disembodied face of a slain soldier nailed onto a tree. “The boys got it as a gift for the brigade,” said the colonel, softly, but proudly.”

Wow.
Truth is that BOTH armies are immoral, and that's the very foundation of an Army, so BOTH sides should stop the irrational jingoistic chest-thumping.
 
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^^^ no, indian army can not indulge in propaganda, false flag, lies, they are the most pure army, they are the largest democracy in the world, democratic army never commit crimes.
 
If that report of Hindustan times is correct and a Pakistani soldier was beheaded, why didn't Pakistan never raised it as an issue then? Don't they care abt pak soldiers and their headless bodies?
 
I have said it for many years that the Indian media is by far the worst in the world, their sensational attacks misguide the Indian public about Pakistan. I remember after the Asia cup final one of their channels showed clips of the war of 1971 and said the Bangladeshis were crying because they saw this match as a revenge of 1971.
 
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