Indian state criminalises religious conversions by marriage

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Quite similar to how Usman Khawaja converted his catholic wife to Islam.. However, I fear in the future with the way things are going in India, it will be the muslim women converting to hinduism, troubled times ahead indeed if you are a muslim who is against converting to another religion..

Why would Muslim women be converting to hinduism? I don't want to point out the obvious but you must have seen the trend with hindu women when they are abroad, are they normally looking for a hindu partner? What is the attraction?

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Anyone remember Dharmendra and Hema Malini converting to Islam to get married?

 

[CricketCartoons]

Why would Muslim women be converting to hinduism? I don't want to point out the obvious but you must have seen the trend with hindu women when they are abroad, are they normally looking for a hindu partner? What is the attraction?

This law is not to prevent such cases of inter faith marriage. Only to help prevent cases where the relationship is founded on fraud and deceit.

 

[Madplayer]

Just making an important distinction that this law applies to UP police and not indian police, as police is state subject. Maybe a similar law can be brought for the entire country by the central govt, but it is not in the pipeline now. There are other important things to legislate.

What other important things are there to legislate on? This is as important as it gets for BJP.

 

[Itachi]

Why would Muslim women be converting to hinduism? I don't want to point out the obvious but you must have seen the trend with hindu women when they are abroad, are they normally looking for a hindu partner? What is the attraction?

Being vegan is the new trend. Easier to do that in Hinduism than Islam.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Actually most of them are stupid. That is why a law is needed to prevent others from taking the advantage of their stupidity. This law must be hailed for protecting the most vulnerable citizens. Don't know what is the issue with those blaming the law.

Are you saying most of them Hindu women are stupid. And the evidence is that they marry a Muslim guy, (otherwise they are not stupid).
So this law is introduced to curb the stupidity of Hindu women?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Didn’t open all the links but these women must be really stupid

Such cases are coming out frequently.

 

[El Generico]

Quite similar to how Usman Khawaja converted his catholic wife to Islam.. However, I fear in the future with the way things are going in India, it will be the muslim women converting to hinduism, troubled times ahead indeed if you are a muslim who is against converting to another religion..

Is that a prediction or fantasy?

Anyways what do you mean by way the things are going? Are you admitting that your government is systematically mistreating Muslims?

 

[Romali_rotti]

Is that a prediction or fantasy?

Anyways what do you mean by way the things are going? Are you admitting that your government is systematically mistreating Muslims?

Just a prediction. Onto your second point; Prevention of illegal conversion is mistreatment ?

Muslim this Muslim that, the world doesn't only revolve around Muslims unfortunately. For a muslim a person leaving your religion is looked at as a big red flag, however when other religions do what you do, you do not like it.. The good ol muslim way: Do as we say and not as we DO...

 

[El Generico]

Just a prediction. Onto your second point; Prevention of illegal conversion is mistreatment ?

Muslim this Muslim that, the world doesn't only revolve around Muslims unfortunately. For a muslim a person leaving your religion is looked at as a big red flag, however when other religions do what you do, you do not like it.. The good ol muslim way: Do as we say and not as we DO...

You said “with the way things are going in India, you fear Muslim woman might start converting to Hinduism”. That’s why I asked what you mean by the way things are going? What is happening in India that would make Muslim especially woman leave their religion?

I won’t respond to the latter part of your post as it seems to just hateful rambling about how Muslims are hypocrites and evil. I am not sure I can say anything that would change the perceptions that your government and media has build in your about “evil Muslims”.

 

[Slog]

Such cases are coming out frequently.

Which I guess means it’s not isolated cases of
Stupidity and gullibility and rather that’s the general mental level.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Which I guess means it’s not isolated cases of
Stupidity and gullibility and rather that’s the general mental level.

I explained why its happening.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Being vegan is the new trend. Easier to do that in Hinduism than Islam.

Vegan diet has apparently been shown to contribute to a higher risk of bone fracture in the last week. Regardless, I have seen little evidence in the UK that it increases the desirability of hindu males. Would make for an interesting study to see who successful hindu women choose for partners outside of India.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Why India's most populous state passed a law inspired by an anti-Muslim conspiracy theory<a href="https://t.co/wAzWTYsnYF">https://t.co/wAzWTYsnYF</a></p>— TIME (@TIME) <a href="https://twitter.com/TIME/status/1332701176622682116?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 28, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[kabbirann]

I had lost interest in Indian politics but it's interesting how little things have changed- India is still stuck in the jahilana Hindu- Muslim stuff while it's economy continue to be go downhill.

Bewakoof logon ki bewakoof sarkar.

 

[sweep_shot]

Dumb move.

What if a person converts voluntarily?

 

[Itachi]

Dumb move.

What if a person converts voluntarily?

Showing the consent in writing to the district magistrate should suffice I guess.

 

[MenInG]

Police in India's Uttar Pradesh state have arrested a Muslim man for allegedly trying to convert a Hindu woman to Islam.

He's the first to be arrested under a new anti-conversion law that targets "love jihad" - a term radical Hindu groups use to accuse Muslim men of converting Hindu women by marriage.

The law has prompted outrage, with critics calling it Islamophobic.

At least four other Indian states are drafting laws against "love jihad".

Police in Uttar Pradesh's Bareilly district confirmed the arrest on Twitter on Wednesday.

The woman's father told BBC Hindi that he filed a complaint because the man "put pressure" on his daughter to convert and threatened her if she didn't. The woman was allegedly in a relationship with the man but got married to someone else earlier this year.

Police told BBC Hindi that the woman's family had filed a kidnapping case against the accused a year ago but the case was closed after she was found and denied the charge.

After his arrest on Wednesday, the man was sent to 14 days of judicial custody. He told reporters that he was innocent and had "no link with the woman".

The new law carries a jail term of up to 10 years and offences under it are non-bailable.

IMAGE COPYRIGHTGETTY IMAGES

What is the 'love jihad' law?

In November, Uttar Pradesh became the first state to pass a law against "forced" or "fraudulent" religious conversions.

But it might not be the last as at least four other states - Madhya Pradesh, Haryana, Karnataka and Assam - have said that they are planning to bring in laws against "love jihad". All five states are governed by the ruling Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), who have been accused of normalising anti-Muslim sentiment.

Critics have called it regressive and offensive, with many concerned that such laws will lead to misuse and harassment since "love jihad" has always been seen as a term used by fringe right-wing radical Hindu groups. It is not a term officially recognised by Indian law.

But it has dominated headlines in the last few months - in October, a popular jewellery brand withdrew an advertisement featuring an inter-faith couple after right-wing backlash accused them of promoting "love jihad".

'Our love is love, not jihad'Indian brands reckon with a new challenge: hate

And then in November, authorities accused Netflix of the same, pointing to a scene in the television series, A Suitable Boy, where a Hindu woman and a Muslim man share a kiss as the camera pans to the backdrop of a Hindu temple. Madhya Pradesh's Home Minister, Narottam Mishra, said it hurt "religious sentiments" and directed officials to look into legal action against the producer and director of the series.

Critics of the BJP say religious polarisation has increased since Prime Minister Narendra Modi first swept into power in 2014. Hindu-Muslim marriages have long attracted censure in India but the attachment of a deeper, sinister motive to them is a recent phenomenon.

 

[MenInG]

New Delhi, India – Indian police stopped an interfaith marriage in the northern state of Uttar Pradesh on Wednesday despite the consent of both families, saying they would have to seek permission of officials as part of a new anti-conversion law passed last week.

The wedding of Raina Gupta, 22, and Mohammad Asif, 24, was supposed to take place on Wednesday in the Para area of the state capital, Lucknow. The preparations were under way but before the ceremonies could begin, a police team intervened and stopped the wedding, following a complaint by a local Hindu right-wing leader, local media reported.

No case was lodged as both families agreed to postpone the wedding until they received the district magistrate’s permission, as mandated by the new law aimed at curbing forced conversion by marriage.

The governing Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) describes such marriages as “love jihad”, an unproven conspiracy theory used by its leaders and Hindu far-right groups to accuse Muslim men of converting Hindu women by marriage.

Gupta and Asif now have to wait for two months to get married.

“According to the new law, in interfaith marriages, it should be made clear henceforth that there is consent from either side prior to the wedding so that later there is no pressure and no scope for blame that forced conversion has taken place,” said Triloki Singh, an Uttar Pradesh police official.

Singh confirmed to Al Jazeera that the wedding, which the Uttar Pradesh police stopped, had consent not only from the bride and the groom but also from their families. “Yes, there was consent,” he said.

Uttar Pradesh Prohibition of Unlawful Conversion of Religion Ordinance, 2020, which was cleared by the state cabinet last week, makes religious conversion an offence, with penalties of up to 10 years in prison if found to be effected for marriage or through misrepresentation, force, undue influence, coercion, allurement or other allegedly fraudulent means.

An Indian news agency quoted Vijay Gupta, the bride’s father, saying that there was no forced religious conversion for the marriage and that both families had unconditionally given their consent to the union.

“I was unaware, until the police told us, that even after consent from all the parties, an interfaith marriage can be held only with the district magistrate’s approval,” he told IANS.

On Wednesday, a 21-year-old Muslim man was arrested by Uttar Pradesh police under the new law, the first such arrest.

Critics say the law is to target Muslims and undermines women’s agency and their right to decide who they wish to marry.

Kavita Krishnan, an activist and secretary of the All India Progressive Women’s Association, told Al Jazeera that the law is nothing but “a government-sponsored honour crime”.

“It’s a law in which you are attacking love, attacking a woman’s right to love, attacking a woman’s right to marry and deciding who she should marry – that is the real nature of the law which is why it is a government-sponsored honour crime,” Krishnan said, adding that if the law claims to protect women’s rights, then women should be able to file complaints themselves.

The BJP spokesperson Syed Zafar Islam, however, defended the law saying his party is not against interfaith marriage but against forced conversion within interfaith marriages.

Islam said that those who want to marry a person of another faith, have to “follow certain compliances”.

“They have to ensure that it’s not a forced conversion and no one has actually converted their religion based on any pressure,” he said.

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/...ting-love-jihad-law?__twitter_impression=true

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

First cows, then corona and now conversion. Can anyone see the pattern here?

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

I explained why its happening.

Its happening for two reasons.

1 - For Hindus to save face when their daughters marry a Muslim man.

2 - Because the children of those marriages are almost always raised Muslims. The more intermarraige their is the more the Muslim population will increase.

So this law has been passed which should make any Indian Muslim think 100 times before he marrys a non Muslim girl.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Its happening for two reasons.

1 - For Hindus to save face when their daughters marry a Muslim man.

2 - Because the children of those marriages are almost always raised Muslims. The more intermarraige their is the more the Muslim population will increase.

So this law has been passed which should make any Indian Muslim think 100 times before he marrys a non Muslim girl.

Even Pakistan should bring such a law. To separate the genuine interfaith marriages from the forced ones.

Give a cash reward for genuine cases to promote interfaith harmony, and punish the culprit in the forced cases.

 

[Madplayer]

Showing the consent in writing to the district magistrate should suffice I guess.

Unbelievable lol you have come out of the closet completely now. Good for you.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Unbelievable lol you have come out of the closet completely now. Good for you.

Same happens when someone wants to purchase land from a scheduled caste. They have to do to the district magistrate. This helps separate cases were the person is being forced to sell land.

Instead of prosecuting after fraud happens, such laws help is preventing them from happening.

 

[Madplayer]

Same happens when someone wants to purchase land from a scheduled caste. They have to do to the district magistrate. This helps separate cases were the person is being forced to sell land.

Instead of prosecuting after fraud happens, such laws help is preventing them from happening.

Purchasing land and marrying a person are not the same things.

I have one question which would help understand this thing better. Fraud can happen in any kind of marriage, inter-faith or not. So if people from the same community marry each other, do they also have to give it in writing that they arent being coerced into marriage?

 

[CricketCartoons]

Purchasing land and marrying a person are not the same things.

I have one question which would help understand this thing better. Fraud can happen in any kind of marriage, inter-faith or not. So if people from the same community marry each other, do they also have to give it in writing that they arent being coerced into marriage?

Of course they are not the same things. But fraud can happen in both, where one side is getting into a dealing under duress or forgery, that is the similarity.

Yes fraud can happen in many cases, but your argument is about the completeness of the law, not about it being wrong or unethical. No law can be complete.

 

[Madplayer]

Of course they are not the same things. But fraud can happen in both, where one side is getting into a dealing under duress or forgery, that is the similarity.

Yes fraud can happen in many cases, but your argument is about the completeness of the law, not about it being wrong or unethical. No law can be complete.

Fraud can happen in literally any transaction which involves two people. However, Purchasing land involves tangible factors too which isnt necessarily the case in marriages and that is the major difference here.

We are talking about fraud in marriage only. Can a law not be complete in this particular subject? Or is fraud in marriage limited to inter-faith marriages only?

 

[Itachi]

Unbelievable lol you have come out of the closet completely now. Good for you.

This is a judicial procedure. You should always respect the judicial system of a country.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Fraud can happen in literally any transaction which involves two people. However, Purchasing land involves tangible factors too which isnt necessarily the case in marriages and that is the major difference here.

We are talking about fraud in marriage only. Can a law not be complete in this particular subject? Or is fraud in marriage limited to inter-faith marriages only?

If an anti communal riots bill is presented, will you protest that people can be killed in many ways, and lynching can be done by same community people too, so the anti communal riot bill is wrong?

Give your objection to this law. It does not mention any religion, and is secular. Your point that it is not complete and does not cover all kind of marriage frauds is flawed (example in previous para).

 

[Itachi]

Fraud can happen in literally any transaction which involves two people. However, Purchasing land involves tangible factors too which isnt necessarily the case in marriages and that is the major difference here.

We are talking about fraud in marriage only. Can a law not be complete in this particular subject? Or is fraud in marriage limited to inter-faith marriages only?

Hindu marriage act and Muslim marriage act is totally different. Should we question why the law is more lenient towards Muslims than hindus?

 

[Madplayer]

If an anti communal riots bill is presented, will you protest that people can be killed in many ways, and lynching can be done by same community people too, so the anti communal riot bill is wrong?

I didnt understand this parallel which you are trying to draw. Anyone who is a part of communal riots should be punished in the same way. Thats what i am saying about fraud in marriage too.

[/QUOTE]Give your objection to this law. It does not mention any religion, and is secular. Your point that it is not complete and does not cover all kind of marriage frauds is flawed (example in previous para).[/QUOTE]

My objection is that people shouldnt be discouraged from marrying somoene they want. This new marriage law is just legal harrassment on part of the state and can be weaponised against minorities. Read up the articles mentioned above how people are being stopped from marrying each other hours before their marriage. And read up how marriages where muslims convert to hinduism are being facilitated and this "law" is ignored. so my objections are the unnecessary harrassment, the law being different for same-community marriages and also unjust application of the law.

 

[Madplayer]

This is a judicial procedure. You should always respect the judicial system of a country.

Not necessarily.

 

[Madplayer]

Hindu marriage act and Muslim marriage act is totally different. Should we question why the law is more lenient towards Muslims than hindus?

What is the leniency shown towards muslims?

 

[CricketCartoons]

I didnt understand this parallel which you are trying to draw. Anyone who is a part of communal riots should be punished in the same way. Thats what i am saying about fraud in marriage too.

Give your objection to this law. It does not mention any religion, and is secular. Your point that it is not complete and does not cover all kind of marriage frauds is flawed (example in previous para).

My objection is that people shouldnt be discouraged from marrying somoene they want. This new marriage law is just legal harrassment on part of the state and can be weaponised against minorities. Read up the articles mentioned above how people are being stopped from marrying each other hours before their marriage. And read up how marriages where muslims convert to hinduism are being facilitated and this "law" is ignored. so my objections are the unnecessary harrassment, the law being different for same-community marriages and also unjust application of the law.

People are not being discouraged from inter faith marriages. because some inter faith marriages are being based on fraud and used to force religious conversion, the state is stepping in to filter out these cases.

Indians cannot determine the gender of their child till it is born. It deprives many parents an emotional connect with the baby in the womb, as you can't even think it in terms of son or daughter. But state had to step in because some people were finding gender only to kill the girl child. State must always step in when criminal elements are doing fraud, and laws are made on data available.

I haven't heard of any case where conversion of muslim to hindu is being facilitated by this law (this law applied to UP only, so I hope you are not talking about any other state).

Many women friendly laws can be weaponised to target the groom's family, but that can never be the reason to discard the laws. Should anti dowry law be removed because some women weaponise it to settle disputes with in laws?

 

[Itachi]

Not necessarily.

We differ in this ideology then. Because I always believe that you should respect the judicial system of the country. Yes, there might be circumstances where you may believe that the judicial system has some errors and if such is the case, you'll try to rectify it through the judicial process itself via petition.

I may not agree with everything but that doesn't mean I'll disrespect it.

 

[Itachi]

What is the leniency shown towards muslims?

Without divorce, a second marriage is illegal in the Hindu marriage act (as a result of which, even if you want a divorce, people rarely go through it due to the long/tiring /expansive procedure) but not the same for Muslims.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Without divorce, a second marriage is illegal in the Hindu marriage act (as a result of which, even if you want a divorce, people rarely go through it due to the long/tiring /expansive procedure) but not the same for Muslims.

There have been many instances where people(especially hindus) have used religion for their own benefits. People like Dharmendra converted to Islam in order to marry Hema Malini and now living as a hindu.

Few years ago a politician's son from Haryana changed his name to Chand Mohammed to marry his girlfriend and then after few years he changed his name back to Chander Mohan.

Why don't they criminalise this? They are actually making fun of both religions. In my opinion these people are like 'dhobi ka kutta, na ghar ka, na ghat ka'. They have disrespected both religions.

 

[Itachi]

There have been many instances where people(especially hindus) have used religion for their own benefits. People like Dharmendra converted to Islam in order to marry Hema Malini and now living as a hindu.

Few years ago a politician's son from Haryana changed his name to Chand Mohammed to marry his girlfriend and then after few years he changed his name back to Chander Mohan.

Why don't they criminalise this? They are actually making fun of both religions. In my opinion these people are like 'dhobi ka kutta, na ghar ka, na ghat ka'. They have disrespected both religions.

If someone is exploiting the existing rules for their own benefits, there should be proceedings against it. No doubt about it.

 

[MenInG]

Within a week of the promulgation of the new law against forced and dishonest conversions in Uttar Pradesh, six FIRs have been registered under it in five districts, police officials said on Sunday. The law was promulgated through an ordinance on November 28.

Ten people, out of the 29 people booked under this new law, have been arrested in two of the cases registered in Sitapur and Bareilly districts since Wednesday, the officials said.

A senior police official said seven people have been arrested in the FIR registered with Tambaur police station of Sitapur district while one arrest was made in the first FIR registered at Devraniya police station of Bareilly district.

Meanwhile, Moradabad police on Friday arrested a Muslim man and his brother under the new law when he visited the registrar’s office to record his marriage to a Hindu woman. According to an agency report, Moradabad’s Kanth station house officer Ajay Gautam said the two men were arrested based on a complaint by the woman’s parents.

“In the Sitapur case, the FIR of the elopement of a 19-year-old girl was registered on November 26 and the provisions of new ordinance were added to it later. The girl’s father stated in the FIR that his daughter was kidnapped by a Muslim youth to compel her for marriage. He later stated that the girl was kidnapped to force her to convert her religion,” he said.

Another official at DGP headquarters said the first two cases under this law were registered in Bareilly on November 28 and 29.

Additional director general (ADG), Bareilly zone, Avinash Chandra had earlier confirmed that the first FIR was registered at Devraniya police station of Bareilly.

In the first FIR, one Tikaram Rathore of Sharifnagar village had accused Owaish Ahmad for mounting pressure on his daughter to convert her religion. The accused was booked under Indian Penal Code (IPC) sections 504 for insulting person and 506 for criminal intimidation as well as section 3/5 of the Uttar Pradesh Prohibition of Unlawful Conversion of Religion Ordinance, 2020. Ahmad was arrested on Wednesday.

The second FIR was registered at Izzat Nagar police station of Bareilly in which one Tahir Hussain and his brothers Sageer and Munna were accused of forceful religious conversion. The complaint was lodged by a woman who married Tahir around a year ago.

Another FIR under the new law was registered against 14 people in Mau district after a woman eloped with a Muslim man, who is already married. The FIR was registered against one Shabab Khan and 13 others under IPC sections 366, 506 and 3/5 of new law at Chiraiyakot police station on Tuesday.

Yet another FIR was lodged at Mansoorpur police station of Muzaffarnagar district on Thursday wherein two Muslim men were booked for allegedly trying to force a married Hindu woman to convert. They were booked under the new law as well as under sections 504 (criminal intimidation), 506 and 120 B (criminal conspiracy) of the IPC.

The new ordinance aims to check religious conversions carried out by “allurement, coercion, force, fraud, or marriage.” Violations of the law have been made cognizable and non-bailable offence.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/luck...version-law/story-P6chEgYyTPYFpRz2XBhNaJ.html

 

[waheed_sofi]

https://indianexpress.com/article/i...se-woman-gets-police-escort-in-other-7095748/
In UP, ‘love jihad’ has two faces: man jailed in one case, woman gets police escort in other
Uttar Pradesh police have recorded five cases so far in the nine days since the state’s anti-conversion law, which imposes stringent conditions on inter-faith marriages, came into force. But two of these cases, lodged within 24 hours of each other, present a sharp contrast — and show how police have wielded the new law selectively.

In Bareilly Saturday, police did not entertain the complaint of a father that his daughter had married a Hindu man after conversion. Police said they went by the woman’s testimony that she got married in September before the law came into force.

But in Moradabad Sunday, police arrested and jailed a Muslim man under the anti-conversion law despite his wife saying that they got married in July. The man’s brother was also arrested and jailed.

In Bareilly, police said they dropped the woman back at her husband’s home. In Moradabad, police said the woman has been lodged in a state protection home.

READ | Chorus in UP village: police pro-active, forced ‘love jihad’ arrest

On Saturday, Shahid Mian, the father of 22-year-old Alisha, lodged an FIR at Prem Nagar police station in Bareilly stating that his daughter had been kidnapped by three persons, including the owner of a firm where she had worked.

Besides Siddharth Saxena alias Aman (24), who married Alisha, the FIR named his sister Chanchal, who was her colleague at a private firm, and the firm’s owner Manoj Kumar Saxena. All three accused are Bareilly residents.

In the FIR, the father claimed that on December 1, his daughter left home “to collect pending dues from her office” and did not return. Finding her phone switched off, Mian said, he went to the office and met Saxena who did not provide any information.

Mian claimed that Aman used to pressure his daughter for marriage, which led to her stop going to work. He accused Manoj Kumar and Anchal of putting pressure on Alisha to marry Aman.

Station House Officer Avaneesh Kumar told The Indian Express that after the case was filed, Alisha visited the station and said that she was a major, denied the charge of kidnapping and confirmed that she had gone with Aman on her own.

“The girl told us that she married Aman at an Arya Samaj temple on September 29 and that they hid this information from her family. The girl had the marriage documents with her,” said Kumar.

READ | In name of conversion, UP ‘love jihad’ law targets inter-faith unions

Police got Alisha’s medical examination done, and got her identified by her family. On Monday, they got her statement recorded before a magistrate in which she reiterated what she told police.

Police said they did not invoke the new law because the girl’s father did not mention in his complaint that his daughter was being converted. However, Mian told The Indian Express: “The marriage could not be done without conversion. I had asked police to invoke the new law and look into the circumstances of the marriage. They were not ready to listen.”

Asked why the new law was not invoked, Circle Officer, City (Bareilly), Dileep Singh, said: “The marriage took place in September when the anti-conversion law was not in place. Besides, the girl showed proof that she got married in September.” When contacted, ASP Bareilly (City), Ravindra Kumar, said: “The girl has given a statement in court in favour of the youth.”

In Moradabad, however, police took a different course.

READ | Wedding stopped in Uttar Pradesh, groom says, ‘no talk of conversion… love enough’

On Sunday, Rashid Ali (22) was arrested in the Kanth area while he was going with Pinki (22) to get their marriage registered. Rashid’s brother Saleem Ali (25), who was accompanying them, was also arrested.

Pinki’s family, based in Bijnor, alleged in a police complaint that she was being “forcibly converted” by Rashid through marriage. But speaking to reporters, Pinki said: “I got married to Rashid on July 24. I have been living here in Kanth in Moradabad since then. I am an adult and got married to Rashid as per my wishes.”

Circle Officer (Kanth) Balram said: “The woman’s mother has alleged that Rashid deceitfully tempted her daughter Pinki to marry him and was getting her converted.”

In her complaint, Pinki’s mother Bala Devi said: “To marry my daughter, Rashid brought her to Kanth and we followed them here. Then we got to know that the youth is Muslim. He hid his identity…he was going to marry my daughter and she was made to wear a burqa.”


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Asked Monday if police had verified the woman’s claim that she married Rashid in July, the Circle Officer said: “This will be checked during investigation. The girl has so far not produced any documents of the marriage.” Her statement before a magistrate is yet to be recorded.

Rasheed and Saleem have been remanded in judicial custody for 14 days. When contacted, ADGP (Bareilly zone), Avinash Chandra, said: “I have to check under which circumstances the arrest was made by Moradabad police.”

The Uttar Pradesh Prohibition of Unlawful Conversion of Religion Ordinance, 2020, promulgated on November 28, seeks to end conversion through unlawful means. It prohibits conversion for marriage, even if it is with the consent of the individual except when prior sanction is obtained from the state. The law provides for punishment of upto 10 years in jail.

 

[Madplayer]

People are not being discouraged from inter faith marriages. because some inter faith marriages are being based on fraud and used to force religious conversion, the state is stepping in to filter out these cases.

Indians cannot determine the gender of their child till it is born. It deprives many parents an emotional connect with the baby in the womb, as you can't even think it in terms of son or daughter. But state had to step in because some people were finding gender only to kill the girl child. State must always step in when criminal elements are doing fraud, and laws are made on data available.

I haven't heard of any case where conversion of muslim to hindu is being facilitated by this law (this law applied to UP only, so I hope you are not talking about any other state).

Many women friendly laws can be weaponised to target the groom's family, but that can never be the reason to discard the laws. Should anti dowry law be removed because some women weaponise it to settle disputes with in laws?

Read this article. This is the answer to your post. Come to real world.

https://indianexpress.com/article/i...se-woman-gets-police-escort-in-other-7095748/
In UP, ‘love jihad’ has two faces: man jailed in one case, woman gets police escort in other
Uttar Pradesh police have recorded five cases so far in the nine days since the state’s anti-conversion law, which imposes stringent conditions on inter-faith marriages, came into force. But two of these cases, lodged within 24 hours of each other, present a sharp contrast — and show how police have wielded the new law selectively.

In Bareilly Saturday, police did not entertain the complaint of a father that his daughter had married a Hindu man after conversion. Police said they went by the woman’s testimony that she got married in September before the law came into force.

But in Moradabad Sunday, police arrested and jailed a Muslim man under the anti-conversion law despite his wife saying that they got married in July. The man’s brother was also arrested and jailed.

In Bareilly, police said they dropped the woman back at her husband’s home. In Moradabad, police said the woman has been lodged in a state protection home.

READ | Chorus in UP village: police pro-active, forced ‘love jihad’ arrest

On Saturday, Shahid Mian, the father of 22-year-old Alisha, lodged an FIR at Prem Nagar police station in Bareilly stating that his daughter had been kidnapped by three persons, including the owner of a firm where she had worked.

Besides Siddharth Saxena alias Aman (24), who married Alisha, the FIR named his sister Chanchal, who was her colleague at a private firm, and the firm’s owner Manoj Kumar Saxena. All three accused are Bareilly residents.

In the FIR, the father claimed that on December 1, his daughter left home “to collect pending dues from her office” and did not return. Finding her phone switched off, Mian said, he went to the office and met Saxena who did not provide any information.

Mian claimed that Aman used to pressure his daughter for marriage, which led to her stop going to work. He accused Manoj Kumar and Anchal of putting pressure on Alisha to marry Aman.

Station House Officer Avaneesh Kumar told The Indian Express that after the case was filed, Alisha visited the station and said that she was a major, denied the charge of kidnapping and confirmed that she had gone with Aman on her own.

“The girl told us that she married Aman at an Arya Samaj temple on September 29 and that they hid this information from her family. The girl had the marriage documents with her,” said Kumar.

READ | In name of conversion, UP ‘love jihad’ law targets inter-faith unions

Police got Alisha’s medical examination done, and got her identified by her family. On Monday, they got her statement recorded before a magistrate in which she reiterated what she told police.

Police said they did not invoke the new law because the girl’s father did not mention in his complaint that his daughter was being converted. However, Mian told The Indian Express: “The marriage could not be done without conversion. I had asked police to invoke the new law and look into the circumstances of the marriage. They were not ready to listen.”

Asked why the new law was not invoked, Circle Officer, City (Bareilly), Dileep Singh, said: “The marriage took place in September when the anti-conversion law was not in place. Besides, the girl showed proof that she got married in September.” When contacted, ASP Bareilly (City), Ravindra Kumar, said: “The girl has given a statement in court in favour of the youth.”

In Moradabad, however, police took a different course.

READ | Wedding stopped in Uttar Pradesh, groom says, ‘no talk of conversion… love enough’

On Sunday, Rashid Ali (22) was arrested in the Kanth area while he was going with Pinki (22) to get their marriage registered. Rashid’s brother Saleem Ali (25), who was accompanying them, was also arrested.

Pinki’s family, based in Bijnor, alleged in a police complaint that she was being “forcibly converted” by Rashid through marriage. But speaking to reporters, Pinki said: “I got married to Rashid on July 24. I have been living here in Kanth in Moradabad since then. I am an adult and got married to Rashid as per my wishes.”

Circle Officer (Kanth) Balram said: “The woman’s mother has alleged that Rashid deceitfully tempted her daughter Pinki to marry him and was getting her converted.”

In her complaint, Pinki’s mother Bala Devi said: “To marry my daughter, Rashid brought her to Kanth and we followed them here. Then we got to know that the youth is Muslim. He hid his identity…he was going to marry my daughter and she was made to wear a burqa.”


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Asked Monday if police had verified the woman’s claim that she married Rashid in July, the Circle Officer said: “This will be checked during investigation. The girl has so far not produced any documents of the marriage.” Her statement before a magistrate is yet to be recorded.

Rasheed and Saleem have been remanded in judicial custody for 14 days. When contacted, ADGP (Bareilly zone), Avinash Chandra, said: “I have to check under which circumstances the arrest was made by Moradabad police.”

The Uttar Pradesh Prohibition of Unlawful Conversion of Religion Ordinance, 2020, promulgated on November 28, seeks to end conversion through unlawful means. It prohibits conversion for marriage, even if it is with the consent of the individual except when prior sanction is obtained from the state. The law provides for punishment of upto 10 years in jail.

 

[Madplayer]

Without divorce, a second marriage is illegal in the Hindu marriage act (as a result of which, even if you want a divorce, people rarely go through it due to the long/tiring /expansive procedure) but not the same for Muslims.

Are you only talking about leniency towards muslim men?
Whats stopping hindu men from demanding that they should also be given such rights?

 

[CricketCartoons]

Read this article. This is the answer to your post. Come to real world.

Non execution of law is not the problem of the law. Many anti dowry and anti harrassment laws are misused, doesn't mean the laws are wrong.

 

[Madplayer]

Non execution of law is not the problem of the law. Many anti dowry and anti harrassment laws are misused, doesn't mean the laws are wrong.

This articles support a few of my objections which i mentioned to you last time. Weaponisation of the law to harrass the minorities and selective application of the law in order to facilitate conversion to hinduism.

 

[CricketCartoons]

This articles support a few of my objections which i mentioned to you last time. Weaponisation of the law to harrass the minorities and selective application of the law in order to facilitate conversion to hinduism.

It applies to any law. A wrong FIR can be lodged against you and you can be in police custody if someone wants to harass you. So not an argument against the law. Next you will say anti dowry laws can be weaponized against males so should be repealed.

 

[Madplayer]

It applies to any law. A wrong FIR can be lodged against you and you can be in police custody if someone wants to harass you. So not an argument against the law. Next you will say anti dowry laws can be weaponized against males so should be repealed.

The essence of what you are saying is what was followed by the Nazi party. They also exploited the legal framework like this.
There is no communal angle in dowry related cases.
That cannot be used to target and vilify one community and facilitate conversions to a paeticular religion as is already being done in this marriage law which was always presented as "anti-love jihad law". So it was demonising muslims from the get go. Dowry law should be looked at completely differently but you seem to want to compare them very badly. A communal hindutva govt cannot be trusted with any law where there is a chance to cause communal rife.

 

[Itachi]

The essence of what you are saying is what was followed by the Nazi party. They also exploited the legal framework like this.
There is no communal angle in dowry related cases.
That cannot be used to target and vilify one community and facilitate conversions to a paeticular religion as is already being done in this marriage law which was always presented as "anti-love jihad law". So it was demonising muslims from the get go. Dowry law should be looked at completely differently but you seem to want to compare them very badly. A communal hindutva govt cannot be trusted with any law where there is a chance to cause communal rife.

Your statement is actually supportive of his arguments. In the last statement, you actually echoed exactly what he wrote. I don't know why you are objecting since ultimately you belong to the same thought process.

 

[Madplayer]

Your statement is actually supportive of his arguments. In the last statement, you actually echoed exactly what he wrote. I don't know why you are objecting since ultimately you belong to the same thought process.

Kindly explain how my statement is supportive of his arguments.

 

[CricketCartoons]

The essence of what you are saying is what was followed by the Nazi party. They also exploited the legal framework like this.
There is no communal angle in dowry related cases.
That cannot be used to target and vilify one community and facilitate conversions to a paeticular religion as is already being done in this marriage law which was always presented as "anti-love jihad law". So it was demonising muslims from the get go. Dowry law should be looked at completely differently but you seem to want to compare them very badly. A communal hindutva govt cannot be trusted with any law where there is a chance to cause communal rife.

Let us get this clear. Are you against the law in its letter and spirit, or are you against the misuse of this law, and nothing against the law per se?

Do you think if Pakistan had this law, will it help case of forced inter faith marriages, or will it will prevent genuine interfaith marriages? I gave the example of Pakistan to take away the communal angle and focus on the law itself.

 

[Itachi]

Kindly explain how my statement is supportive of his arguments.

You are blaming the executioner but not the law with your last statement. Which is exactly what he was saying too where, if you are missing the law, the law shouldn't be blamed.

 

[The Viper]

How UP's New Anti-Conversion Law Is Being Used To Harass Hindu-Muslim Couples

New Delhi/Moradabad: An NDTV investigation into the case of a young Hindu woman heckled inside a police station in Uttar Pradesh by Hindutva activists because she had married a Muslim man has found multiple weak links in the case and actions against the couple.

The video of the young woman being harassed and heckled by Bajrang Dal workers, when she went to get her marriage registered on Saturday in the town of Kanth in western Uttar Pradesh's Moradabad district was viral.

The woman's husband and his brother have been arrested by the police under Uttar Pradesh's new anti-conversion laws, which prohibit fraudulent and forcible conversions, including conversion for marriage.

The law, which came into force in the form of an ordinance on November 28, is seen as giving legal teeth to the BJP's battle against so-called 'love jihad', the unproven conspiracy theory that Hindu women are being falsely enticed and converted by Muslim men.

The police claim they had to arrest the men because of a complaint filed by the woman's mother, alleging that the two men were trying to forcibly convert her daughter.

According to the law, any proposal to convert needs permission from the District Magistrate two months in advance.

In the viral video, the Bajrang Dal can be heard asking her to show the permission from the District Magistrate to convert.

But the woman told the media that she had converted and married on July 24, four months before the new anti-conversion laws came into force in the state.

She said she has been living with her husband in Kanth, about 30 kilometres from Moradabad, for about three to four months.

"I married him of my own free will. I am an adult, I'm 22," she said. On Saturday, the couple had gone to the local registrar's office to get their marriage registered.

Her husband's family shared translated copies of their Nikahnama, or marriage document, which show that the couple got married on July 24, and that woman was a "Nav Muslim" or a "New Muslim" at the time of the Nikah, indicating her conversion on that date

The First Information Report (FIR) filed by the mother says the girl was taken away on December 1, five days before the couple were brought to the police station and a case was filed. But when she spoke to us, she said that they had been looking for her daughter for over two weeks.

The woman's mother also claims in the FIR that her family found the couple on the way to a cleric's place, where the two men were trying to get her forcibly converted.

But to the media, the family claim it was the Bajrang Dal that found the couple, when they had gone to get their marriage registered.

Both the woman's brother and mother told us that they were informed about the incident by the Bajrang Dal, and that they (the Dal) even sent a car for them.

This is borne out by the local members of the Bajrang Dal.

"On 5th (of December), we got information that a Muslim boy and Hindu girl want to get married after converting. We went there and found it to be true. So we informed the police, and they took action," said Chaudhary Monu Bishnoi, the Moradabad district co-convenor, Bajrang Dal.

It is, however, unclear how the Bajrang Dal found out about the incident, giving only evasive answers when asked.

"We have our secret sources. There are workers working on this but they will never come forward," said Bishnoi.

While the police have already arrested two men in this case, despite the woman's claims that she married of her own free will, the police are yet to act against the Bajrang Dal workers seen heckling a woman.

"We haven't gotten a complaint on this yet. If we get a complaint from the girl or the mother, we will investigate," said Prabhakar Chaudhary, a senior police officer in Moradabad.

We asked the Bajrang Dal men seen in the video, whether the police had acted against them.

Bishnoi and Harsh Kumar, a Bajrang Dal worker, both of whom can be seen heckling and questioning the woman in the video, however first denied having asked the woman any questions and then said there has been no action against them yet.

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/how...im-couples-2336819?pfrom=home-ndtv_topstories

 

[Gabbar Singh]

When it comes to the important things in life like cows, so called love jihad etc Madhya Pradash is never far behind UP.


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NewsAlert?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#NewsAlert</a> | The Madhya Pradesh Cabinet approved the bill against forceful inter-faith conversions or the so-called "love jihad".<a href="https://t.co/yBAbdwDmUt">https://t.co/yBAbdwDmUt</a></p>— News18.com (@news18dotcom) <a href="https://twitter.com/news18dotcom/status/1342706495884906498?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 26, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[CricketCartoons]

Every country should have this law, so that the demography of minorities is protected and they don't get absorbed by the majority.

 

[The Viper]

Another BJP-governed Indian state plans anti-conversion law

The government in the central Indian state of Madhya Pradesh has approved a bill to prevent “forceful” religious conversions, a legislation critics say is aimed at curbing interfaith marriages.

“The bill includes a maximum punishment of up to 10 years in jail and up to 100,000 Indian rupees [$1,358] in fine, with the burden of proof virtually falling on the accused and those associated with the accused, including organisations and institutions,” state’s Home Minister Narottam Mishra told a news conference on Saturday, without elaborating.

An official statement later said “those looking to change their religion will have to notify two months ahead, failing which the marriage will be considered null and void under the new law”, which will be presented in the state assembly next week.

The Madhya Pradesh government’s move came almost a month after a similar law was passed by India’s most populous state of Uttar Pradesh. Both states are governed by Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP).

The BJP chief minister in Uttar Pradesh is a 48-year-old saffron-robed Hindu monk, Yogi Adityanath, a hardliner known for his inflammatory rhetoric against Muslims.

‘Love jihad’ laws

The legislation is being referred to as “love jihad” laws, a term used by the Hindu right wing to refer to an unproven conspiracy that Muslims are luring Hindu brides with the aim of converting them to Islam.

Falling foul of the vaguely-worded legislation is not hard. Dozens of Muslim men have been arrested – for which police need no warrant – in just a few weeks, despite interfaith marriages being a rare phenomenon in the Hindu-majority nation.

On Friday, a Muslim teenager was arrested under the new law in Uttar Pradesh’s Bijnor district after the father of his 16-year-old classmate said the boy “induced the girl to elope with him” with the “intention to marry and convert her”.

While returning from a friend’s birthday party earlier this month, the boy and the girl were attacked by a group of men and taken to the local police station.

The Muslim boy was booked under the anti-conversion law and on charges of abduction. He was also charged under sections of the Protection of Children from Sexual Offences Act, 2012.

The laws passed in the two BJP-ruled states have sent a further chill through India’s 200 million-strong Muslim minority and defenders of the country’s secular traditions, who have raised alarm about the Hindu nationalist party’s policies since it came to power in 2014 and returned with a bigger majority last year.
Nowhere is the BJP’s alleged mission of “Hindutva” – Hindu hegemony – more in evidence than in Uttar Pradesh, a vast and economically backward state of 200 million people.

While there is no credible evidence of an organised mass attempt to convert Hindu women to Islam and bring about Muslim domination, the conspiracy theory is rife in Hindutva circles and Adityanath’s government has pledged to stamp out “love jihad” with the new law.

Any relative of the bride can complain to the police, the men can be arrested on the slightest suspicion, and women are pressured into making incriminating statements, activists say.

Muslim boys do sometimes pretend to be Hindus, and there have been instances of kidnapping women on both sides.

But many right-wing Hindus think the men are not acting alone but are part of a master plan, probably financed by India’s Muslim-majority neighbour Pakistan.

Believing “love jihad” is real “would be a laughable idea if it wasn’t so dangerous”, said rights activist Harsh Mander. “What we’re witnessing … is the complete demolition of everything that the constitution promised.”

Woman suffers miscarriage

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A few weeks ago, when 22-year-old Muskan and her Muslim husband Rashid went to register their marriage in the Uttar Pradesh town of Moradabad, he ended up in jail and the young woman in a state-run shelter home.

Three months pregnant, she suffered a miscarriage.

“They knew I was pregnant. They still made me work, clean the room, putting strain on my belly,” said Muskan, who went by name Pinky when she was a Hindu. “I knew I was losing my child.”

The couple’s “crime” was the alleged violation of the anti-conversion law, which again carries a punishment of up to 10 years in jail.

Muskan, meanwhile, is back with her in-laws, still suffering medical complications. She intends to stay with Rashid, who, along with his brother, has spent two weeks behind bars before police released them as Muskan resisted pressure to incriminate him.

“I trust and love Muskan. I knew she wouldn’t make a statement against our love,” he told the AFP news agency. “I only got to know about our baby when I got out.”

Muslims ‘brainwashing our girls’

Other states governed by the BJP want to enact legislation similar to that in Uttar Pradesh and the bill passed by the Madhya Pradesh cabinet.

Egging on the government and the police are hardline Hindu groups, the most prominent being the Bajrang Dal, which is thought to have more than five million youth members nationwide.

It has been repeatedly accused of deadly sectarian violence, and is also known for hassling couples on Valentine’s Day, and intimidating Muslims and so-called low-caste Hindus accused of slaughtering cows – which are sacred in Hinduism.

“Love jihad is a reality, it is a well-thought-out strategy deployed by Muslim boys to lure Hindu girls,” Ramji Tiwari, the Bajrang Dal chief in the city of Kanpur, told AFP.

Muslims, he claimed, are “hellbent” on one day outnumbering Hindus – they currently outnumber Muslims by almost six to one – in India by “trapping and brainwashing our girls”.

Bajrang Dal now conducts “awareness campaigns”, going door-to-door telling “our mothers and sisters that they should be wary of these smooth-talking men”.

The BJP’s new mission against “love jihad” is also a blow against the right of women to choose whom they marry and an attempt to ensure they remain in “traditional” roles, activists say.

“It’s the unholy trinity of patriarchy, caste and dominant religion that has always wanted to control women’s sexuality and freedom,” lawyer and rights activist Vrinda Grover told AFP

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020...verned-indian-state-plans-anti-conversion-law

 

[guna]

Really terrible law passed by UP assembly. If a person wants to change their faith for marriage, then it is the person’s wish.
Government policing marriages is a terrible policy. I personally know many Hindus who converted to Christianity and many Christians who converted to Hinduism for the sake of marriage. Indian Government should mind its own business.

 

[kabbirann]

Women are chattel for Modi voting folks yet they will have the gall to lecture other religions on their treatment of women.

 

[MenInG]

Following the recent controversy over the alleged conversion and marriage of two Sikh girls to Muslims, All Parties Sikh Coordination Committee, a Kashmir based Sikh organization, has called for implementing Inter Caste Marriage Act and Anti-Conversion Law in Jammu and Kashmir to avoid such controversies.

“The Sikh community in Jammu and Kashmir has been living in harmony with the majority Muslim community,” the APSCC said.

“Over the years many attempts were made to create a wedge between the two communities by the vested interests. However, the nefarious designs got defeated due to the strong bond that exists between the two communities,” the APSCC said.

“Since some unfortunate incidents came to the fore in the recent past it is important that both Muslims and Sikhs maintain the communal harmony and brotherhood. The people need to remain vigilant and ensure that the congenial atmosphere does not get vitiated. Since both the communities have supported each other through thick and thin it is the responsibility of members of both communities to continue with the synergy,” the Sikh body said.

Calling for Inter Caste Marriage Act to be implemented in Jammu and Kashmir, the community leaders said, once the Act is put in practice at this place the inter-caste marriages would come to an end automatically. “This would safeguard the interests of the people belonging to different faiths and religions. The elements who want to have mileage out of such marriages would also face an inevitable defeat,” APSCC said.

“Over the years members of elite political families of Jammu & Kashmir have been indulged in inter-caste marriage but surprisingly nobody pointed fingers towards them. Whenever such an incident happens in a normal family the issue gets blown out of proportion. This needs to be analyzed and people should be vigilant so that the opportunistic politicians don’t exploit them,” the Sikh body said.

“At the same time it is also important that Anti-Conversion Law is implemented in Jammu & Kashmir. This would stop the forcible conversion of people belonging to any religion whatsoever. Friction between the different communities would also come to an end once for all as a result. There would be no tensions between the communities and all the people would live without fear,” the APSCC said.

Since Saturday Sikh community in Kashmir has been protesting in the valley, alleging that two women were ‘kidnapped, converted and married’ in Srinagar.

Manmeet Kaur, a 26-year-old Sikh woman, and 29-year-old Shahid Nazir Bhat, both residents of Srinagar’s Rainawari, fled their homes on June 21. After the woman's family filed a complaint, the police charged Bhat with kidnapping and abduction under section 366 of the IPC.

The couple surrendered before the police and subsequently were produced before the city judge Srinagar on Saturday. Manmeet rejected her family's allegation that Bhat had kidnapped her and gave a statement in favour of Bhat.

But at the time of hearing of her case, over two dozen Sikhs lodged protests outside the City Court here seeking handing over of Manmeet Kaur. They alleged she was minor and had been abducted, forcibly converted to Islam and married off to a Muslim man. That evening, Manmeet was handed over to her parents by the concerned police. Two days later, the family has married Manmeet to one Sukhbir Singh, with the decision of Panj Pyaaras. The marriage took place at 12 pm Tuesday.

The other Sikh woman at the centre of the ongoing controversy is 29-year-old Danmeet Kour, whose family alleges that she has been converted forcibly and married by Muzaffar Shaban, a Srinagar resident. But in the court, Danmeet refuted the family’s version and said that she has married Muzzafar aged 30 in 2014.

After hearing her version, the court ordered that Danmeet according to her wishes be handed over to her in-laws. Danmeet, in a viral video, said she married Muzaffar in June 2014 under the Special Marriages Act. “I converted to in 2012 and married in 2014. I am an educated and mature woman. I am aware of what my rights are under the constitution. I did marry him with my will because this is my fundamental right,” Danmeet said.

Danmeet has a master’s degree in political science and another degree in Public Administration from Indira Gandhi National Open University (IGNOU) and a Bachelors in Education. She runs her own education academy for the last five years in Srinagar.

Shaban is in detention in Srinagar under charges of abduction and is lodged in the Srinagar Central Jail for nearly a month now.

https://www.outlookindia.com/websit...e-marriage-act-and-anti-conversion-law/386741

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Manmeet Kaur, a 26-year-old Sikh woman, and 29-year-old Shahid Nazir Bhat, both residents of Srinagar’s Rainawari, fled their homes on June 21. After the woman's family filed a complaint, the police charged Bhat with kidnapping and abduction under section 366 of the IPC.

The couple surrendered before the police and subsequently were produced before the city judge Srinagar on Saturday. Manmeet rejected her family's allegation that Bhat had kidnapped her and gave a statement in favour of Bhat.

But at the time of hearing of her case, over two dozen Sikhs lodged protests outside the City Court here seeking handing over of Manmeet Kaur. They alleged she was minor and had been abducted, forcibly converted to Islam and married off to a Muslim man. That evening, Manmeet was handed over to her parents by the concerned police. Two days later, the family has married Manmeet to one Sukhbir Singh, with the decision of Panj Pyaaras. The marriage took place at 12 pm Tuesday.

Family alleges female who has married a Muslim man is a minor, that she was forcibly abducted, forcibly converted to Islam, and married against her will. And then they marry this "minor" off in two days.

You can see a picture of the girl here. Does anyone think she looks happy at being married to Sukhbir Singh? This is the real forced marriage. This is rape.

https://thekashmirwalla.com/2021/06/she-married-a-muslim-then-she-was-snatched-and-married-again/

How many times have we heard these stories? That the Muslim man has "forcibly" converted a girl to Islam. For those who believe it, maybe next time keep an open mind that, to save face these families are lying.

 

[street cricketer]

Family alleges female who has married a Muslim man is a minor, that she was forcibly abducted, forcibly converted to Islam, and married against her will. And then they marry this "minor" off in two days.

You can see a picture of the girl here. Does anyone think she looks happy at being married to Sukhbir Singh? This is the real forced marriage. This is rape.

https://thekashmirwalla.com/2021/06/she-married-a-muslim-then-she-was-snatched-and-married-again/

How many times have we heard these stories? That the Muslim man has "forcibly" converted a girl to Islam. For those who believe it, maybe next time keep an open mind that, to save face these families are lying.

I have been following the case on social media, and so I know a fair bit of information about the issue. First news broke out that a 60 year old Kashmiri muslim had abducted and married an underage mentally unstable girl from the sikh community and there was a lot of protest on the streets from the sikh community. Then next day news emerged that the girl is 26 years old and the guy is 29 years old. Then the girl was retrieved and married off to another sikh guy almost immediately. Finally the news has emerged that the girl has actually just passed 18 years of age and the guy is 29 years old and an already divorced guy with one child from previous wedlock. There has been a slew of misinformation that it was hard to know the exact details of the case until now.

Typically the muslim community is the most averse in letting the females in their community marry non muslim men. Hindus have a taboo against it but there's no hard and fast rule in their religion as it is in Islam in prohibiting marriages between muslim women and non muslim men. What I have observed in the last few days is that the Sikhs are as steadfast and firm in their conviction in not letting their women marry non sikh men as muslims and apparently, like the muslims, it's in their religious institutions to do so. There has been some bad blood between the muslims and sikhs in social media discourse over the past few days. This leaves us to the question of individual rights vs religious conservatism. The people who are arguing for the rights of the girl from the muslim community would be as averse as the sikhs if their sister or daughter were to elope and marry a hindu or sikh guy against their wishes, because such unions are prohibited in their religion. The Sikhs are doing the same here.

There are a lot of hindu muslim marriages happening in India where the groom is muslim and the bride is hindu, not all such marriages are socially boycotted. Some of them convert to islam and some of them do marriage in the special marriage act and retain their respective beliefs. Many celebrities have converted to Islam and have married muslim men and women, and they're as popular as they were before conversion. Although I'm from the south, I don't think they would be boycotted by many even in the north which is slightly more conservative as much as say if a muslim celebrity converted to hinduism (if at all it's possible within the legal framework) in Pakistan or in any muslim majority country. This above case is most definitely likely to be a case of grooming because the girl has just crossed 18 years 2 or so months before and the guy is a 29 year old divorced guy with one child, which means the divorced guy would have most definitely been in a romantic relationship with the sikh girl when she was underage.

Nobody would have an issue with such marriages if the girl is 23 years and the guy is 25 or 27. People raise issues of grooming and forced conversions in Pakistan because the girl is almost always 15-18 years and the guy is a 40 year old married guy with 2 children. Normal interfaith "love" marriages that happen between students in college or in work in India don't seem as normal in Pakistan. Why would a 15 year old girl fall head over heels for a middle aged muslim man married with 2-3 children. This requires the muslim community to think while being in the shoes of the minorities, which many find it difficult because they're so dogmatic about their belief in their religion that clouds their judgement of individual and minority rights. In the subcontinent where the tribal mentality is so rife, every such marriage is seen as one girl "lost" or "gained" to their tribe rather than from the individual and personal rights pov.

 

[street cricketer]

[MENTION=152959]hoshiarpurexpress[/MENTION] can probably give the sikh pov regarding interfaith marriages in Sikhism.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Nobody would have an issue with such marriages if the girl is 23 years and the guy is 25 or 27. People raise issues of grooming and forced conversions in Pakistan because the girl is almost always 15-18 years and the guy is a 40 year old married guy with 2 children. Normal interfaith "love" marriages that happen between students in college or in work in India don't seem as normal in Pakistan. Why would a 15 year old girl fall head over heels for a middle aged muslim man married with 2-3 children. This requires the muslim community to think while being in the shoes of the minorities, which many find it difficult because they're so dogmatic about their belief in their religion that clouds their judgement of individual and minority rights. In the subcontinent where the tribal mentality is so rife, every such marriage is seen as one girl "lost" or "gained" to their tribe rather than from the individual and personal rights pov.

Are you sure? What about the other one? Is this also a fake age?

The other Sikh woman at the centre of the ongoing storm is 29-year-old Danmeet Kour, who has been in love with her high school classmate, a 30-year-old Muslim named Muzaffar Shaban for 15 years now.

In a telephone interview with Al Jazeera, Danmeet said she married Shaban in June 2014.

“I had converted to Islam in 2012, two years before I married my boyfriend. It was the wish of both of us, no one forced me. It was my decision because the Indian constitution grants me this right to choose my partner,” she told Al Jazeera.

Danmeet, who has a master’s degree in political science, said she left home on June 6 to live with Shaban, telling her family not to look for her as she was now going to live with her husband.

But her family went to the police and the couple was traced within two hours, she said. Shaban was arrested on kidnapping charges and Danmeet handed over to her parents.

Danmeet said her family took her to Punjab, the Sikh-majority state in India’s west, where she alleged that “multiple groups met her and tried to influence her decision and forced her to give a statement against her husband”.

“I received death threats. But I told those folks in Punjab, my family and everyone else that I will only record my statement before a judge in the court,” Danmeet told Al Jazeera.

For nearly a month now, Shaban has been in a jail in Srinagar.

After her return from Punjab, Danmeet was presented to a local court on June 26 where she gave a statement saying her family had falsely charged her husband with kidnapping and she should be provided police protection.

“I just want to live with my in-laws and did not want to go back to my parents,” she told the court.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021...ges-trigger-controversy-between-muslims-sikhs

 

[street cricketer]

Are you sure? What about the other one? Is this also a fake age?






https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021...ges-trigger-controversy-between-muslims-sikhs

I know about the other case too and some leaders in the sikh community have pledged that they would get their girl back too. It's why I said in my previous post that I've learnt that the Sikhs are as dogmatic in their firm belief to not let their women marry non sikhs, as muslims are. The religious right don't care for individual rights or liberalism when it comes to interfaith marriages, be it the Sikhs or the Muslims.

For the record, I think in the case of the other girl, it's wrong to keep the muslim man in custody and the girl should be allowed to rejoin her husband. The recent development is that she has been allowed to re-join her in laws as per her wishes.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

[MENTION=152959]hoshiarpurexpress[/MENTION] can probably give the sikh pov regarding interfaith marriages in Sikhism.

As far as I know and I have seen, There have been no issues. Lot of Sikh girls and boys marry across religion, but with Hindu faith mostly. My wife is a Hindu Brahmin.

The number of Muslims in Indian Punjab are very low, And I reckon marriage with Muslim for a Sikh family will have same issues as it is for others. There are issues, plus add the angle of our beloved Sikh Gurus martyred by the Mughal Kings.

Not saying it makes it right, but in general it is the same. Like my parents telling me you can marry anyone, but not a Muslim, a bit of contradictory message.

And there are lot of Hindus in Punjab, who regularly visit Gurudwaras and do langar seva and vice versa.

Growing up, Going to a Gurdwara and to a Hindu temple meant the same thing. After 1990s, situation has been mostly peaceful. In fact, during the 84 riots we were protected by our Hindu neighbours who told us to not worry, they will not let anything happen to us.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

As far as I know and I have seen, There have been no issues. Lot of Sikh girls and boys marry across religion, but with Hindu faith mostly. My wife is a Hindu Brahmin.

The number of Muslims in Indian Punjab are very low, And I reckon marriage with Muslim for a Sikh family will have same issues as it is for others. There are issues, plus add the angle of our beloved Sikh Gurus martyred by the Mughal Kings.

Not saying it makes it right, but in general it is the same. Like my parents telling me you can marry anyone, but not a Muslim, a bit of contradictory message.

And there are lot of Hindus in Punjab, who regularly visit Gurudwaras and do langar seva and vice versa.

Growing up, Going to a Gurdwara and to a Hindu temple meant the same thing. After 1990s, situation has been mostly peaceful. In fact, during the 84 riots we were protected by our Hindu neighbours who told us to not worry, they will not let anything happen to us.

Are Sikhs against marriage with Muslim females? Or only against Sikh women marrying Muslim men?

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Are Sikhs against marriage with Muslim females? Or only against Sikh women marrying Muslim men?

Marrying to Muslim males or females,both, in general. The History and stories of Sikh Gurus and their fights with the Mughal Kings also plays a part in this prejudice.
Also, the Muslim population in Punjab is quiet Minuscule as compared to say UP/Kerala etc.. which is understandable because the new country for Muslims was just 200KM away at max. So most of them moved across.

 

[MenInG]

Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) on Saturday suggested that religious conversions should stop in the country and the ones who are denouncing their faith should publicly declare it.

The RSS, which is seen as an ideological mentor of BJP, further said that it will welcome any anti-conversion bill is passed by the Centre.

While addressing a press conference, RSS general secretary Dattatreya Hosabale said, "Conversion should be stopped and people who are converted have to announce that they have converted."

"There are people who get converted and do not disclose that they have converted. They take double benefits," he said.

When asked to give his two cents on the anti-conversion bill, he replied, "Why the minorities are opposing it is an open secret. Increasing the number by any methods, fraudulent or other such methods cannot be accepted."

Not just RSS but even Mahatma Gandhi was against such practices, he claimed.

The RSS functionary said there always is freedom for anyone to change the religion, "but what is happening today is not that."

He said former Prime Minister late Atal Bihari Vajpayee had given a call for a national debate on this issue.

Dattatreya Hosabale also claimed that more than 10 states in the country have passed the anti-conversion bill and said that in the past, various Congress state governments had passed similar bills.

"In Himachal Pradesh, the Congress government passed a resolution. Virbhadra Singh was the Chief Minister and he passed the anti-conversion bill.

In Arunachal Pradesh, it was the Congress government who did it (passed anti-conversion bill). Gegong Apang was the Chief Minister," Hosabale claimed.

 

[ex-q-zit]

Uttarakhand Passes Stricter Anti-Conversion Bill

Dehradun: Uttarakhand Assembly on Wednesday passed a stricter anti-conversion Bill making unlawful conversion a cognisable and non-bailable offence punishable with imprisonment for a term of at least three to a maximum of 10 years.

It also passed a Bill granting 30 per cent horizontal reservation to domiciled women of the state in government services. According to the Uttarakhand Freedom of Religion (Amendment) Act, 2022, apart from a prison term, any offender indulging in unlawful conversion will also be liable to be imposed with a fine of at least ₹ 50,000.

Besides, the offender may also be liable to pay compensation of up to ₹ 5 lakh to the victim.

Earlier, the punishment for unlawful conversion in the state ranged from one to seven years besides imposition of a fine. "No person shall convert, either directly or otherwise, any other person from one religion to another by use or practice of misrepresentation, force, undue influence, coercion, allurement or by any fraudulent means. No person shall abet, convince or conspire such conversion," says the Act.

Stating the objects and reasons of the Bill, Minister for Religious Affairs Satpal Maharaj said, "...under articles 25, 26, 27 and 28 of the Constitution of India, under Right to Freedom of Religion, to equally strengthen the importance of every religion, the amendment in Uttarakhand Freedom of Religion Act, 2018 is necessary to remove certain difficulties in the Act.

Meanwhile, the state assembly also passed the Uttarakhand Public Services (Horizontal Reservation for Women) Bill, 2022 granting 30 per cent horizontal reservation to domiciled women of Uttarakhand in state services.

This Bill was introduced in the House on Tuesday.

Stating its objects and reasons, Chief Minister Pushkar Singh Dhami said, "Due to the heterogeneous geographical structure of Uttarakhand, people living in remote areas of the state lead a difficult life. Especially the women of the state lead life in adverse conditions, due to which their standard of living is below the women of other states..." "Therefore in order to ensure social justice, equality of opportunity , improvement in living standards, gender equality in public planning, etc, the Bill proposes to provide 30 per cent horizontal reservation to women of Uttarakhand in state services," he said.

The assembly also passed an appropriation Bill on supplementary demands for grants amounting to ₹ 5,440.43 crore tabled in the House for the current fiscal on Tuesday before its proceedings were adjourned sine die.

NDTV

 

[Kriketer]

biggest democracy. And Indians are so vocal about humans rights in Qatar thread. Joke of a democracy

 

[cricketjoshila]

biggest democracy. And Indians are so vocal about humans rights in Qatar thread. Joke of a democracy

Neighbours giving certificate on democracy.

 

[ahsan17]

Neighbours giving certificate on democracy.

no, it's based on merit. But you of course won't understand that.

 

[cricketjoshila]

no, it's based on merit. But you of course won't understand that.

And who gave the neighbours the authority to judge merit?

Look at the democracy and freedom in your own country before commenting on others.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

And who gave the neighbours the authority to judge merit?

Look at the democracy and freedom in your own country before commenting on others.

Did Pakistanis ask for bigoted resolutions passed in neighbouring countries to be posted on a Pakistan message board? If they are going to be drop-bombed onto these forums then it's pretty stupid to expect no comments.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Did Pakistanis ask for bigoted resolutions passed in neighbouring countries to be posted on a Pakistan message board? If they are going to be drop-bombed onto these forums then it's pretty stupid to expect no comments.

What is the bigotry?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

What is the bigotry?

It will be applied by those passing judgement in the courts in line with BJP bigotry.

 

[Stewie]

This is a very subjective area. How do you know if someone married someone for other reasons but eventually wanted them to convert to his/her religion? How do you prove that someone married someone just for the sake of converting them to their religion?

Unless a device is invented that can print out someone's true intentions, this law would not work. I see troubled couples who converted, using this law to get back at their spouse/former spouse. A person can simply claim this person married me and forced me to convert and the law will find him/her guilty. Most often it will be Muslim males because its only in Islam that requires the spouse to be converted. Other religions do not have any such regulations.

 

[ahsan17]

And who gave the neighbours the authority to judge merit?

Look at the democracy and freedom in your own country before commenting on others.

Lmao that's literally not how it works. I know this is how the BJP brain works but the democracy or lack of it in one's own country doesn't mean one can't talk about democracy in another country.

You guys are the first one to talk about religious issues in Pakistan. By your own logic, who gave you the authority, and why are you commenting on religious issues in other countries given the religious issues in your own country?

 

[Stewie]

Lmao that's literally not how it works. I know this is how the BJP brain works but the democracy or lack of it in one's own country doesn't mean one can't talk about democracy in another country.

You guys are the first one to talk about religious issues in Pakistan. By your own logic, who gave you the authority, and why are you commenting on religious issues in other countries given the religious issues in your own country?

Their democracy means only they can say whatever they want, but we cannot because we are living in a dictatorship according to them. LOL.

 

[Champ_Pal]

I support this law. Conversion by marriage is so lame. You are marrying the person. Not his religion. If the other person cannot marry because of religion or caste or race, then they are not sincere in their love from the beginning itself.

This should separate true love from Jihadi/Gharwapsi types.

 

[Stewie]

I support this law. Conversion by marriage is so lame. You are marrying the person. Not his religion. If the other person cannot marry because of religion or caste or race, then they are not sincere in their love from the beginning itself.

This should separate true love from Jihadi/Gharwapsi types.

It is very idiotic to suggest that. A vast number of such conversions are non Jihadi types where the newborn Muslims are very happy with their new faiths and productive members of the society. I see such males/females all the time here in the US. If India is any different and somehow most of them are turning into JIHADI types, then perhaps that is to blame on India specific issues and should be look at more closely.

 

[Champ_Pal]

It is very idiotic to suggest that. A vast number of such conversions are non Jihadi types where the newborn Muslims are very happy with their new faiths and productive members of the society. I see such males/females all the time here in the US. If India is any different and somehow most of them are turning into JIHADI types, then perhaps that is to blame on India specific issues and should be look at more closely.

The law is only conversion for marriage. People can still follow or adopt a new religion or quit the religion completely if they want to.
Situation in US is very different to India. Most US women are pretty liberal in major cities. For them converting to a new religion or cult is not a big deal as their families are also pretty liberal. In India, even if the girl is a liberal, her parents will not be so liberal to let their child marry someone out of their preferred religion.

Such law should be there in Pakistan too. Too many Christian and Hindu girls get kidnapped and married off to some old baba and converted.