Indian Women's ODI WC 2025 glory in hindsight: Was 'pitch doctoring' the reason why their Men counterpart failed to replicate same success in 2023?

[The Bald Eagle]

Indian women started the tournament as firm favorites alongside Australian team but lost the steam midway with three consecutive losses. Things had gone so bad that even die hard Indian fans started to throw in the towel and show white flags. But unlike any other Indian team in an ICC tournament in 21st century, the Indian women side showed heart and managed to turn their fortunes by beating a strong Australian women side and consequently emerged as the tournament winners in the end.

Although, home advantage certainly helps, but the question arise why the men side failed to emulate the same success in 2023. That side had more veterans in it's buildup. And unlike their women counterpart, they managed to forge their way into the final unbeaten. But in contrast, instead of getting the better of the opposition in the final they literally surrendered. Despite getting some controversial decisions in their favor.

So the bottom line is did Indian men failed because of their pitch doctoring as affirmed by Indian cricketers themselves including Mohammed Kaif or was it any other factor that led to their demise in a first home ODI final since 2011?

And just because of this, everyone will fondly remember Indian women ODI title triumph despite average journey to knock out stage. While majority will recall India's dominant campaign to ODI final 2023 in bitter words despite a flawless campaign.

 

[Devadwal]

Op forget Indian men's won back to back ICC trophy since 2023 World Cup.

ICC trophy won by Indian team's in last 17 month's -3

ICC trophy won by Pakistan teams In entire cricketing history -3

This should be talk why so called land of Pacers become minnow day by day.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Op forget Indian men's won back to back ICC trophy since 2023 World Cup.

ICC trophy won by Indian team's in last 17 month's -3

ICC trophy won by Pakistan teams In entire cricketing history -3

This should be talk why so called land of Pacers become minnow day by day.

Hahah...you could discuss that in relevant thread...stop derailing the topic man...and just FYI the answer is so obvious...it's the same guy holding back your trophy

 

[sithb]

Didn't need to doctor the pitch and should have kept the finals in Mumbai.

 

[Devadwal]

Hahah...you could discuss that in relevant thread...stop derailing the topic man...and just FYI the answer is so obvious...it's the same guy holding back your trophy

There is more than dozens thread about World Cup 2023 so obviously knowing your history it's a troll Thread which deserved that epic reply n

 

[Devadwal]

Didn't need to doctor the pitch and should have kept the finals in Mumbai.

Mumbai cricketing atmosphere is best in the india. No doubt about it n

 

[sithb]

Always of the opinion that the bigger cities should be hosting the finals.

Mumbai , Kolkata , Chennai , Delhi

The semis should be in cities like Hyderabad Chennai Bangalore

But then modi govt with all things pointing to the red neck state called Gujarat

 

[Devadwal]

@Rajdeep We should host the 2026 World T20 final not at the Panoti Narendra Modi Stadium but at Wankhede or Eden Gardens.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Guys please refrain from offensive language

 

[The Bald Eagle]

And yeah you guys need to play your natural game, by doctoring pitches you fall in the trenches dig for others

@Rajdeep We should host the 2026 World T20 final not at the Panoti Narendra Modi Stadium but at Wankhede or Eden Gardens.

 

[Devadwal]

And yeah you guys need to play your natural game, by doctoring pitches you fall in the trenches dig for others

It was not pitch doctoring as Rohit gave us flying start but mental midget KL Played like a test match and rest of batters didn't performed under pressure. We were good position until Virat Kohli wickets. 147/3 in 28 overs .

 

[The Bald Eagle]

It was not pitch doctoring as Rohit gave us flying start but mental midget KL Played like a test match and rest of batters didn't performed under pressure. We were good position until Virat Kohli wickets. 147/3 in 28 overs .

O yes, it was bottling, Modi factor too brother...not denying that...Also plz putting all the blame on KL, what did your chew gum guy did?

 

[sithb]

The 2023 world cup loss was gutting.

But I tend to think it's more a case of law of averages finally catching up.

Didn't need to do the pitch tampering though and it was mildly satisfying to see the Gujarati power party getting spoilt too.

 

[Devadwal]

Anyway we are already broke the jinx and won multiple trophy in next 2 years.

Till 2031 World Cup , there will be 8 ICC tournament and india likely to win minimum 4 more trophy.


ICC T20 World Cup 2026 ( India , Lanka)

ICC World Cup 2027 ( South Africa, Zimbabwe) 50-50

WTC final 2027 ( England)

ICC Men's T20 World Cup 2028( Australia,NZ)

ICC Champions Trophy 2029( india)

WTC final 2029 ( England)

ICC T20 World Cup 2030( England)

ICC World Cup 2031 ( India , Bangladesh)

 

[Devadwal]

O yes, it was bottling, Modi factor too brother...not denying that...Also plz putting all the blame on KL, what did your chew gum guy did?

Sky is / was naver a ODI player , selection of sky was pathetic so I don't blame him.

 

[Devadwal]

Prime Minister Narendra Modi likely to meet India’s Women Cricket Team on Wednesday after their historic World Cup win.

 

[Vikram1989]

Anyway we are already broke the jinx and won multiple trophy in next 2 years.

Till 2031 World Cup , there will be 8 ICC tournament and india likely to win minimum 4 more trophy.


ICC T20 World Cup 2026 ( India , Lanka)

We have olympics too.gold for men's .Atleast silver in womens

 

[harshjoshi87]

@Rajdeep We should host the 2026 World T20 final not at the Panoti Narendra Modi Stadium but at Wankhede or Eden Gardens.

Finally one thing that i agree with @Devadwal.

Final should be played at Wankhede, Eden Gardens, Chepauk or even Bangalore. Why force the final into a non cricket centre like Ahmedabad.

Ahmedabad used to be non-panauti, we won the 2011 WC qf vs Australia, Srinath's 6-20 vs South Africa in 1996 test match, many memories there.

Hope better sense prevails & BCCI dosen't schedule the 2026 T20 WC final at Ahmedabad.

 

[harshjoshi87]

Anyway we are already broke the jinx and won multiple trophy in next 2 years.

Till 2031 World Cup , there will be 8 ICC tournament and india likely to win minimum 4 more trophy.


ICC T20 World Cup 2026 ( India , Lanka)

ICC World Cup 2027 ( South Africa, Zimbabwe) 50-50

WTC final 2027 ( England)

ICC Men's T20 World Cup 2028( Australia,NZ)

ICC Champions Trophy 2029( india)

WTC final 2029 ( England)

ICC T20 World Cup 2030( England)

ICC World Cup 2031 ( India , Bangladesh)

2 T20 World Cups in 2028

ICC T20 World Cup 2028 in Australia-New Zealand

Olympics T20 tournament 2028

 

[harshjoshi87]

It was not pitch doctoring as Rohit gave us flying start but mental midget KL Played like a test match and rest of batters didn't performed under pressure. We were good position until Virat Kohli wickets. 147/3 in 28 overs .

India should have made 290-300 just like yesterday, they could have won easily. But destiny had other plans.

Plus India played on the black soil pitch in the final when they could have easily made the wicket like the one in Chennai league match vs Australia.

Anyways victories in 2 back to back ICC tournaments after that night plus the one yesterday has somewhat healed that pain.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Indian women started the tournament as firm favorites alongside Australian team but lost the steam midway with three consecutive losses. Things had gone so bad that even die hard Indian fans started to throw in the towel and show white flags. But unlike any other Indian team in an ICC tournament in 21st century, the Indian women side showed heart and managed to turn their fortunes by beating a strong Australian women side and consequently emerged as the tournament winners in the end.

Although, home advantage certainly helps, but the question arise why the men side failed to emulate the same success in 2023. That side had more veterans in it's buildup. And unlike their women counterpart, they managed to forge their way into the final unbeaten. But in contrast, instead of getting the better of the opposition in the final they literally surrendered. Despite getting some controversial decisions in their favor.

So the bottom line is did Indian men failed because of their pitch doctoring as affirmed by Indian cricketers themselves including Mohammed Kaif or was it any other factor that led to their demise in a first home ODI final since 2011?

And just because of this, everyone will fondly remember Indian women ODI title triumph despite average journey to knock out stage. While majority will recall India's dominant campaign to ODI final 2023 in bitter words despite a flawless campaign.

The claims of Mohammed Kaif regarding pitch doctoring

"I was there for three days. Rohit Sharma and Rahul Dravid inspected the pitch every day for 3 days ahead of the final. They stood beside the pitch for an hour every day. I saw the pitch change its colour. There was no watering the pitch, no grass on the track. India wanted to give Australia a slow track. This is the truth, even if people don't want to believe it," Kaif said.

"The feeling was that Australia had Pat Cummins, and Mitchell Starc, so India wanted to give a slow pitch, and that was our mistake. Many people say that curators do their own thing and we don't influence - that is rubbish. When you are moving around the pitch - you have to say just two lines - please don't put water, just reduce the grass. This happens. That is truth. And it should be done. You are playing at home. And we did it a little too much,"

"Cummins took the learning from Chennai that batting is tough at the start in a slow match. Nobody fields first in a final, but Cummins did. We messed up while doctoring the pitch,"

India 'doctored' 2023 World Cup final pitch: Mohammed Kaif's bombshell charge

Former India cricketer Mohammed Kaif has alleged that India doctored the ODI World Cup Final pitch against Australia in Ahmedabad. Kaif alleged that he saw the pitch changing colour in the lead up to the final.

www.indiatoday.in

 

[sithb]

It was pitch doctoring. Didn't need to get done.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Let the women have their moment without comparisons to mens cricket.

 

[big_gamer007]

People are over thinking too much, Indian men’s team lost the finals to Australia for one and only one reason “pressure”.

Had it been a bilateral or group stage match, we would have beaten Australia 8 out of 10 times on the same pitch, same ground, same crowd with the form both teams were in. It’s just that the pressure of finals is too much for Indian players and Australians in general are born and raised differently when it comes to performance in sports.

Only people with 0 clue about sports and not having played sports at any competitive level in desi environment will fail to understand this basic reason.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Mumbai is a lucky venue. 2011, 2025 both won at Mumbai. In 2023 India was hurt by loss of Pandya more than expected. Women team also lost second highest run getter of the tournament. They were forced to bring in inconsistent out of form Shafali. SHe produced the best innings and bowling of her career in the final. Destiny you could say. 2023 Indian team was far superior to Australia. But loss one player completely upset the balance.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Indian women started the tournament as firm favorites alongside Australian team but lost the steam midway with three consecutive losses. Things had gone so bad that even die hard Indian fans started to throw in the towel and show white flags. But unlike any other Indian team in an ICC tournament in 21st century, the Indian women side showed heart and managed to turn their fortunes by beating a strong Australian women side and consequently emerged as the tournament winners in the end.

Although, home advantage certainly helps, but the question arise why the men side failed to emulate the same success in 2023. That side had more veterans in it's buildup. And unlike their women counterpart, they managed to forge their way into the final unbeaten. But in contrast, instead of getting the better of the opposition in the final they literally surrendered. Despite getting some controversial decisions in their favor.

So the bottom line is did Indian men failed because of their pitch doctoring as affirmed by Indian cricketers themselves including Mohammed Kaif or was it any other factor that led to their demise in a first home ODI final since 2011?

And just because of this, everyone will fondly remember Indian women ODI title triumph despite average journey to knock out stage. While majority will recall India's dominant campaign to ODI final 2023 in bitter words despite a flawless campaign.

We have won 3 back to back ICC titles now and you are still stuck in 2023.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Mumbai is a lucky venue. 2011, 2025 both won at Mumbai. In 2023 India was hurt by loss of Pandya more than expected. Women team also lost second highest run getter of the tournament. They were forced to bring in inconsistent out of form Shafali. SHe produced the best innings and bowling of her career in the final. Destiny you could say. 2023 Indian team was far superior to Australia. But loss one player completely upset the balance.

To be honest, you guys are attaching to much weight to Pandya's absence...but the fact is Australia chased it in 42 or something overs
So that wasn't the real issue...the main issue was India's failure to rotate strike mid way and inability to get Travis out. He was in a ruthless mood that day.

Even after getting smith wicket, although controversially...India couldn't bounce back. That was the end of the game for you. And by the way Dube streak also ended recently so don't know how long Pandya alone would have rescued you.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

We have won 3 back to back ICC titles now and you are still stuck in 2023.

Hahah...so just one question for you... Personally I think you are satisfied now. Especially after yesterday's laurel

Thread 'As an Indian cricket team fan, are you satisfied now?'

Jul 13, 2024

China had a century of humiliation before eventual rise. India on the other hand in the realm of cricket had a decade of humiliation ie (2014-May 2024) but like China 'acche dins' have arrived from them.

First they won the ICC T20 WC 2024 after a surreal choke from the best chokers in the world and now they have won WCL 2024. So are these glories enough to wipe the bitter taste of defeats like WC Final 2014, CT 2017, CWC 2019, WTC 2021, WTC 2023 and most importantly CWC 2023 at home or the appetite for more as jay shah mentioned is the only cure for the erstwhile decade of heartbreak...

• The Bald Eagle
• Replies: 229
• Forum: Cricket

 

[harshjoshi87]

People are over thinking too much, Indian men’s team lost the finals to Australia for one and only one reason “pressure”.

Had it been a bilateral or group stage match, we would have beaten Australia 8 out of 10 times on the same pitch, same ground, same crowd with the form both teams were in. It’s just that the pressure of finals is too much for Indian players and Australians in general are born and raised differently when it comes to performance in sports.

Only people with 0 clue about sports and not having played sports at any competitive level in desi environment will fail to understand this basic reason.

Gill & an inform Iyer got out cheaply in the 2023 final. Their role alongwith Rohit was to go after the bowling. Kohli, Rahul were the anchors. Also people forget about the dew & Ahmedabad having smaller boundaries inspite of being the bigger ground. Also any team batting second under lights will win in sub-continent.

Sri Lanka won in '96 at Lahore
India won in '11 at Mumbai
Australia won in '23 at Ahmedabad

 

[saimayubera]

Now that Indian women have won the world cup, Pakistan women’s minnow status is more stark.

Same with Pakistan men’s - they were happy getting kicked out in group stages as long as India was losing in the KOs.

Now that both India men’s and women’s are winning, Pakistanis have nowhere left to hide and have to come to terms with the fact that they have a Bangladesh level team.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Now that Indian women have won the world cup, Pakistan women’s minnow status is more stark.

Same with Pakistan men’s - they were happy getting kicked out in group stages as long as India was losing in the KOs.

Now that both India men’s and women’s are winning, Pakistanis have nowhere left to hide and have to come to terms with the fact that they have a Bangladesh level team.

Although you are derailing the thread but it's true, PCT are now not even a shadow of their older self. As Bazid Khan said we need 5 to 6 years even with the right system and unfortunately that right system can't come in place until political figures leave PCB

 

[The Bald Eagle]

@Rajdeep We should host the 2026 World T20 final not at the Panoti Narendra Modi Stadium but at Wankhede or Eden Gardens.

@Rajdeep you still have the time...to select Chief guest and venue

 

[jnaveen1980]

To be honest, you guys are attaching to much weight to Pandya's absence...but the fact is Australia chased it in 42 or something overs
So that wasn't the real issue...the main issue was India's failure to rotate strike mid way and inability to get Travis out. He was in a ruthless mood that day.

Even after getting smith wicket, although controversially...India couldn't bounce back. That was the end of the game for you. And by the way Dube streak also ended recently so don't know how long Pandya alone would have rescued you.

Proof. In the 5 ICC games that Australia played against India with pandya they lost all 5 of them. He elongated the batting. He elongated the bowling. India having longer tail means they play cautiously. It is the biggest factor. In 2024 final he was the one who dismissed Klassen. He is a street smart bowler. That is his home ground too. On tacky surfaces he is better than others.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Proof. In the 5 ICC games that Australia played against India with pandya they lost all 5 of them. He elongated the batting. He elongated the bowling. India having longer tail means they play cautiously. It is the biggest factor

Ok let's see how long this proof remains relevant... personally I am expecting the meltdown of Pandya myth in ICC tournaments in SENA in future

 

[sweep_shot]

The amount of blatant perks India receive, their "wins" don't feel as great as wins of other teams (Australia, England etc.).

Not all wins are equal.

 

[Hellion]

Although you are derailing the thread but it's true, PCT are now not even a shadow of their older self. As Bazid Khan said we need 5 to 6 years even with the right system and unfortunately that right system can't come in place until political figures leave PCB

Even in the past, it's not like PCT was some great tournament team

 

[Devadwal]

Indian team's achievement in 2025

Won the Champions Trophy
Won the Asia Cup.
Won the Women's World Cup.

Pakistan team's achievement in the last 5 years according to Pakistan fans like @Rana @mominsaigol @The Bald Eagle

152-0.
Australia won the World Cup.
Sahibzada Farhan hits Bumrah for sixes.
Mohsin Naqvi stole the trophy

 

[saimayubera]

The amount of blatant perks India receive, their "wins" don't feel as great as wins of other teams (Australia, England etc.).

Not all wins are equal.

Bangladesh doesn’t even win

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Indian team's achievement in 2025

Won the Champions Trophy
Won the Asia Cup.
Won the Women's World Cup.

Pakistan team's achievement in the last 5 years according to Pakistan fans like @Rana @mominsaigol @The Bald Eagle

152-0.
Australia won the World Cup.
Sahibzada Farhan hits Bumrah for sixes.
Mohsin Naqvi stole the trophy

Hahah...good for you otherwise you can reproduce the story of decade of hum...... IYKWIM

Tbh, women wc achievement is greater than others in the sense that you didn't manipulate or tweak things much this tournament. A first controversy free triumph after long long time.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Ok let's see how long this proof remains relevant... personally I am expecting the meltdown of Pandya myth in ICC tournaments in SENA in future

5-0 against Aussies is a substantial sample. He creates a massive impact in terms of strategy, team balance. India would have gone with Ashwin on that slow pitch who has wood over Aussies instead of siraj. India went with 8 batsmen in wt20 2024. They promoted Axar and he was the crucial batsman in the final. Depth was compromised with 4 tailenders. So they needlessly played slow as SKY looks like a.isfit for. OdI

 

[saimayubera]

Indian team's achievement in 2025

Won the Champions Trophy
Won the Asia Cup.
Won the Women's World Cup.

Pakistan team's achievement in the last 5 years according to Pakistan fans like @Rana @mominsaigol @The Bald Eagle

152-0.
Australia won the World Cup.
Sahibzada Farhan hits Bumrah for sixes.
Mohsin Naqvi stole the trophy

Pakistan has won NOTHING this decade, either gender.

No ICC tournaments.

No Asia Cups.

No SENA tests.

Bangladesh/SL have managed a few of them lol.

Even last Asian Games, both Pakistani men and women failed to medal.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Even in the past, it's not like PCT was some great tournament team

No, uptill 2011 PCT were ahead of India..making it regularly to ICC tournament knockouts.

 

[Sachin fan]

Bangladesh doesn’t even win

You give Bangladesh a walkover in every match and they will still end up on the losing side.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

5-0 against Aussies is a substantial sample. He creates a massive impact in terms of strategy, team balance. India would have gone with Ashwin on that slow pitch who has wood over Aussies instead of siraj. India went with 8 batsmen in wt20 2024. They promoted Axar and he was the crucial batsman in the final. Depth was compromised with 4 tailenders. So they needlessly played slow as SKY looks like a.isfit for. OdI

I think brother big gamer has given the best explanation, it was their day. Pandya no doubt is great but has been part of 2 massive ICC tournament losses against Pakistan and here we are talking about Aussies side that clicked at right time

People are over thinking too much, Indian men’s team lost the finals to Australia for one and only one reason “pressure”.

Had it been a bilateral or group stage match, we would have beaten Australia 8 out of 10 times on the same pitch, same ground, same crowd with the form both teams were in. It’s just that the pressure of finals is too much for Indian players and Australians in general are born and raised differently when it comes to performance in sports.

Only people with 0 clue about sports and not having played sports at any competitive level in desi environment will fail to understand this basic reaso

 

[saimayubera]

No, uptill 2011 PCT were ahead of India..making it regularly to ICC tournament knockouts.

Naah they weren’t.

Pakistan have been poor in the 2000s in general.

2003, 2007 first round knockout in WC.

Also lot of cts didn’t make semis.

Pakistan has never had more tournaments than India. Were tied from 92-02 but apart from that India have always held more trophies throughout history.

 

[Red-Indian]

Proof. In the 5 ICC games that Australia played against India with pandya they lost all 5 of them. He elongated the batting. He elongated the bowling. India having longer tail means they play cautiously. It is the biggest factor. In 2024 final he was the one who dismissed Klassen. He is a street smart bowler. That is his home ground too. On tacky surfaces he is better than others.

I've tried to erase that final from memory but at the time, I remember we saw Pandya's injury as a blessing in disguise. It allowed us to play Shami who was in stunning form all the way to the final.

Even if Pandya was fit for the final, I'm not sure we could've accommodated him. No way were we going to drop Shami so that left Siraj who was also in excellent form in the leadup to the tournament. That leaves Jadeja and Kuldeep who couldn't be dropped on a slow pitch.

As someone said, it was a combination of nerves in final, the toss and some bad decisions on the pitch. Hurts but given the deluge of success since then, it seems petty to obsess over the one that got away

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Naah they weren’t.

Pakistan have been poor in the 2000s in general.

2003, 2007 first round knockout in WC.

Also lot of cts didn’t make semis.

Pakistan has never had more tournaments than India. Were tied from 92-02 but apart from that India have always held more trophies throughout history.

How come? May be I am missing some stats and I haven't brought the T20I format yet where PCT were regular semi finalists.

 

[Devadwal]

No, uptill 2011 PCT were ahead of India..making it regularly to ICC tournament knockouts.

Again wrong , here are some real fact about cricket World cup.

Semifinal played by Pakistani team in this century -1
Semifinal played by Kenya in this century -1
Semifinal played by indian women's team in This century -5( 2000,2005,2009,2017 amd 2025 )

More details about indian women's .
Runner up - 2
Champion -1

Indian women's achivement In this century>>>> bigger than Pakistan cricket

 

[jnaveen1980]

I think brother big gamer has given the best explanation, it was their day. Pandya no doubt is great but has been part of 2 massive ICC tournament losses against Pakistan and here we are talking about Aussies side that clicked at right time

Pakostan match losses are aberration Against Aussies he is a different beast. Check his stats against them

Im ODIs

Pandya averages 53 at. 112 strike rate

In T20s

Pandya averages 58 at 162 strike rate

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Wow these stats look amazing but again, Pandya has a great average against Pakistan too

Pakostan match losses are aberration Against Aussies he is a different beast. Check his stats against them

Im ODIs

Pandya averages 53 at. 112 strike rate

In T20s

Pandya averages 58 at 162 strike rate

 

[RexRex]

Phoolish Dravid asked for a dead sticky pitch and India men's team got what they deserved in 2023 for overthinking it.

 

[jnaveen1980]

I've tried to erase that final from memory but at the time, I remember we saw Pandya's injury as a blessing in disguise. It allowed us to play Shami who was in stunning form all the way to the final.

Even if Pandya was fit for the final, I'm not sure we could've accommodated him. No way were we going to drop Shami so that left Siraj who was also in excellent form in the leadup to the tournament. That leaves Jadeja and Kuldeep who couldn't be dropped on a slow pitch.

As someone said, it was a combination of nerves in final, the toss and some bad decisions on the pitch. Hurts but given the deluge of success since then, it seems petty to obsess over the one that got away

No people don't understand the value of ice cool pandya in a final. He makes things happen like he did in wt 2024 final. He was the one who blasted England in2022 semi-final when others were tuk taking. He is the biggest x factor in such games

 

[The Bald Eagle]

No people don't understand the value of ice cool pandya in a final. He makes things happen like he did in wt 2024 final. He was the one who blasted England in2022 semi-final when others were tuk taking. He is the biggest x factor in such games

And what was the result??

 

[jnaveen1980]

And what was the result??

Others played far worse to make his contribution irrelevant. His presence at his home ground would have been a massive impact on Indias game play. His record against Aussies only reinforces this.

 

[Savak]

The other team has also come to play and the other team was an ATG Cricketing Nation in Australia. If there is anyone capable of routinely challenging India it is only Australia and they were the better team on that day. Enough of the conspiracy theories.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Phoolish Dravid asked for a dead sticky pitch and India men's team got what they deserved in 2023 for overthinking it.

Toss plays a role on such pitches. India expected Australia to bat first like they always do . But they play a lot of IPL. Their knowledge about black soil pitch and redsoil pitch is as good as India. They didn't fall for it. If it were red soil batting first is an advantage. Also in 2011 final India chased with ease. So batting under lights is preferred.

 

[Independent Observer]

India would have gone with Ashwin on that slow pitch who has wood over Aussies instead of siraj.

Ashwin was available for selection for the World Cup final, wasn't he? He wasn't picked by the selectors for the final?

 

[jnaveen1980]

Ashwin was available for selection for the World Cup final, wasn't he? He wasn't picked by the selectors for the final?

India played Ashwin int the first match against Aussies. Then played sleectively

 

[Independent Observer]

India played Ashwin int the first match against Aussies. Then played sleectively

That was his last ODI game, bro. He wasn't selected at all after that one game. So he was overlooked by the selectors themselves.

 

[Rajdeep]

OP still can’t seem to forget the 2023 World Cup. It was probably the last day of happiness for him.

Since then, India has won one T20 World Cup, one Champions Trophy, one Women’s World Cup, drawn the Test series in England, and — last but not least — handed Pakistan three consecutive thrashings in the Asia Cup.

But, but… the 2023 World Cup final, right? The same tournament where India absolutely dominated his own team at the Narendra Modi Stadium and was the best side throughout the event. It just came down to one bad day in the final and that can happen to anyone. But OP is still crying about it.

 

[saimayubera]

How come? May be I am missing some stats and I haven't brought the T20I format yet where PCT were regular semi finalists.

Like I said Pakistan have never had more trophies than India.

92-02 was 1-1.

Otherwise India always in the lead.

Also India has won all three ICC trophies as well as Asia Cup before Pakistan.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

OP still can’t seem to forget the 2023 World Cup. It was probably the last day of happiness for him.

Since then, India has won one T20 World Cup, one Champions Trophy, one Women’s World Cup, drawn the Test series in England, and — last but not least — handed Pakistan three consecutive thrashings in the Asia Cup.

But, but… the 2023 World Cup final, right? The same tournament where India absolutely dominated his own team at the Narendra Modi Stadium and was the best side throughout the event. It just came down to one bad day in the final and that can happen to anyone. But OP is still crying about it.

Hahah ...you have forgotten about my flagship spoiler threads and a Guillotine

 

[Hellion]

No, uptill 2011 PCT were ahead of India..making it regularly to ICC tournament knockouts.

And won how many ? Also they were reaching KO's in ODI World Cups consistently only until '99

 

[The Bald Eagle]

And won how many ? Also they were reaching KO's in ODI World Cups consistently only until '99

But still better than India, Head to head record speaks, ofcourse you were lucky in WCs but overall your ICT was inferior to PCT in all aspects.

 

[Hellion]

But still better than India, Head to head record speaks, ofcourse you were lucky in WCs but overall your ICT was inferior to PCT in all aspects.

So now it's all about luck. Also '99 was 26 years ago.

 

[jnaveen1980]

That was his last ODI game, bro. He wasn't selected at all after that one game. So he was overlooked by the selectors themselves.

But on that tacky pitch at the start against Head he would have been handy. India could have scored more with him.

 

[jnaveen1980]

OP still can’t seem to forget the 2023 World Cup. It was probably the last day of happiness for him.

Since then, India has won one T20 World Cup, one Champions Trophy, one Women’s World Cup, drawn the Test series in England, and — last but not least — handed Pakistan three consecutive thrashings in the Asia Cup.

But, but… the 2023 World Cup final, right? The same tournament where India absolutely dominated his own team at the Narendra Modi Stadium and was the best side throughout the event. It just came down to one bad day in the final and that can happen to anyone. But OP is still crying about it.

Before the match even Australian fans had 0 hope after India decimated 9 teams in first round and NZ in semis. They even dominated Australia in the first match. One of those days .

 

[Mockingbird]

It was not complete pitch doctoring - Ahmedabad was a completely bat 2nd wicket due to the dew factor; we lost the toss & heavy dew set in later.

Mumbai too has dew (we saw that in the match against Australia), but yesterday due to rain and all dew set in very late and by then SA didn’t have many batters left. The Indian women were lucky in that sense because if dew had set in earlier, it was game over for them.

Cant really predict these things.

 

[jnaveen1980]

It was not pitch doctoring - Ahmedabad was a completely bat 2nd wicket due to the dew factor; we lost the toss & heavy dew set in later.

Mumbai too has dew (we saw that in the match against Australia), but yesterday due to rain and all dew set in very late and by then SA didn’t have many batters left. The Indian women were lucky in that sense because if dew had set in earlier, it was game over for them.

Cant really predict these things.

2023 world cup final Black soil pitch
2025 world cup final red soil.pitch

It was an epic blunder to go with that pitch. It brought Aussies into the equation big time. Toss win was an added advantage.

 

[saimayubera]

But still better than India, Head to head record speaks, ofcourse you were lucky in WCs but overall your ICT was inferior to PCT in all aspects.

No they weren’t.

You can’t be lucky in so many world cups.

Not only did Pakistan never have more ICC trophies/asia cups then India, India also won series in NZ, Eng, WI many many years earlier.

H2H “speaks” only because it is speaking when Pak were stronger.

Pak did not play India in the late 60s-early 70s when India won away series in England, WI and NZ.

 

[harshjoshi87]

2023 world cup final Black soil pitch
2025 world cup final red soil.pitch

It was an epic blunder to go with that pitch. It brought Aussies into the equation big time. Toss win was an added advantage.

Better to start d/n matches at 12.30 pm which takes out the dew factor completely, but our administrators won't agree.

 

[harshjoshi87]

No they weren’t.

You can’t be lucky in so many world cups.

Not only did Pakistan never have more ICC trophies/asia cups then India, India also won series in NZ, Eng, WI many many years earlier.

H2H “speaks” only because it is speaking when Pak were stronger.

Pak did not play India in the late 60s-early 70s when India won away series in England, WI and NZ (understandable cause India had just broken Pakistan into two then).

Pak has positive head to head record because of all those fixed matches by D gang & Azhar in Sharjah. Take those games out & India leads in head to head. Btw India is trailing only by 8 now in h2h.

 

[Katwalindian]

Now that Indian women have won the world cup, Pakistan women’s minnow status is more stark.

Same with Pakistan men’s - they were happy getting kicked out in group stages as long as India was losing in the KOs.

Now that both India men’s and women’s are winning, Pakistanis have nowhere left to hide and have to come to terms with the fact that they have a Bangladesh level team.

Bangladesh level or not ...all it need is couple of good days and luck to win the trophy......

 

[Katwalindian]

Anyway we are already broke the jinx and won multiple trophy in next 2 years.

Till 2031 World Cup , there will be 8 ICC tournament and india likely to win minimum 4 more trophy.


ICC T20 World Cup 2026 ( India , Lanka)

ICC World Cup 2027 ( South Africa, Zimbabwe) 50-50

WTC final 2027 ( England)

ICC Men's T20 World Cup 2028( Australia,NZ)

ICC Champions Trophy 2029( india)

WTC final 2029 ( England)

ICC T20 World Cup 2030( England)

ICC World Cup 2031 ( India , Bangladesh)

You win all If its in dubai.....I will even bet my house on it.

 

[Devadwal]

You win all If its in dubai.....I will even bet my house on it.

We have won two ICC Trophy in England, one in South Africa , one in WI , One in UAE, one in India.

 

[saimayubera]

Bangladesh level or not ...all it need is couple of good days and luck to win the trophy......

Naah. Couple of good days is just two wins.
Need to win a lot more. That isn’t luck.

Even CT requires 4/5 wins.

WCs need 6/7 wins at least.

 

[saimayubera]

We have won two ICC Trophy in England, one in South Africa , one in WI , One in UAE, one in India.

One in SL

Another in India (women’s)

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Dry black soil pitches are the worst because there's a big difference when dew sets in and it gets much easier to bat

It's not like Motera cannot produce better pitches. When England toured earlier this year, it was a very good surface.

 

[sweep_shot]

Men's team didn't get to face choker South Africa. They faced Australia. So, they lost.

If Indian ladies team were facing England instead of South Africa, they probably would've lost also.

Facing South Africa in final generally means you have won since South Africa can't handle KO pressure.

 

[Katwalindian]

Naah. Couple of good days is just two wins.
Need to win a lot more. That isn’t luck.

Even CT requires 4/5 wins.

WCs need 6/7 wins at least.

Icc trophy is overrated...It doesn't show the whole picture....like I rate india 2023 performance better than 2011.....