Indians - What is YOUR opinion on the caste system?

[Slog]

What do you think of it as it exists currently?

What do you think of the role it played historically? Do you think it was justified system in prior times?

Why do you think Hindus came to accept it? How did it even come up?

 

[PakLFC]

The question should be what does Hinduism say about the caste system? Who made the Brahmins special people and in a position to look upon other Hindu's like Adivasis and Shudras as being lesser human beings? Why can someone not be a born Brahmin or convert to one?

 

[TM Riddle]

1) These days it mostly exists in and around the rural areas. Among Urban populace, it's mostly restricted to making sure your kids marry within your caste but even that's changing these days with more and more city folks giving it up and embracing modernity.
If not for politicians and vote bank, caste system(as practiced historically) would have been dead in India by now.
Now Untouchablity is a completely different thing though and I believe these days it's rare to find it's cases even in the villages with more and more stringent laws coming up.

2) Well for that you would have to go back to it's genesis and how it evolved gradually to acquire it's current form.
The early vedic society was a pastoral one with elements of egalitarianism and equality present even though there are hymns and prayers in Rigveda emphasising the importance of a boy child. It was broadly based on clan system with family or kula being the basic unit.
This was the time where Agriculture Production wasn't optimal and thus cities were virtually non existent. Trade was probably minimal and Barter was the mode of exchange and cattle an important unit of value.
Though slavery existed as suggested by Rigveda it hadn't acquired the hereditary overtones as we were to see later in the case of Shudras.
Now although the word Varna is mentioned in Rigveda it probably didn't mean it in the way we perceive it now.
The words 'Kshatriya' and 'Brahman' occur but the words 'Vaishya' and 'Shudra' are absent.
Thus there was an absence of strict social hierarchy and there was an existence of an element of social mobility.

The emergence of Monarchy slowly began to change the character of the early era tribal society. While some communities retained their tribal character, others were making the transition towards the statehood. Larger political units were formed through the coalescing of the tribes. This exalted the supremacy of King as well as the Brahmans who became the close advisors and confidents of Kshatriyas.

Thus it was the beginning of a class structure in which social groups had different degrees of access to productive resources.

Varna was partly an ideology that reflected the increasing social differentiation of the times. It was even more an ideology that justified this differentiation from the pov of the elite groups. In dividing society into four hereditary strata, this ideology defined social boundaries , roles, status and ritual purity. Members of the four varnas were supposed to have different innate characteristics which made them naturally suited to certain occupations and social rank.
This was the beginning of Varnashram system which later evolved into caste system of today.

India since time immemorial had been subjected to attacks from the Invaders from the NW passes .
These Invaders who were mostly from Central Asia in the beginning decided to make the country their home and with time got assimilated into India's rich and composite cultur adopting the prevailing social customs and practices. Thus Kings and their kin among them got admitted into Kshatriya caste while others were integrated into the lower ones. With more and more people coming coupled with the diversification of trade and professions, new social groups came to emerge which weren't traditionally part of the Varnashram system but were part of the larger Hindu fold nonetheless. This led to the origin of many 'castes' who didn't find a place in the traditional Varna system and were later 'squeezed in' inside for the lack of better word. With passing of time, it became even more complex with only remnants of the old system left now.

Regarding the acceptance part you have to understand that it was a gradual process and didn't happen overnight.
Think of it like slavery. The slaves had it as bad as shudras and yet it continued.

The justification part is bit tricky. The early system was characterised by social mobility with people moving up and down the order. It was only in the later times that it got rigid and acquired hereditary status. I believe caste system as such was fine for it's era. It was more or less manifestation of tribal nature of early human society.
What I do find problematic is Untouchablity, a complete abhorrent practice having no place in the modern society no matter how you try to justify it in any manner.

Hope that helps.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Caste system is a great system to make a society function efficiently. The flaw that got introduced into this great system was that it became hereditary. It should be fluid, only based on the individual's traits not his parentage.

 

[JaDed]

Caste system is a great system to make a society function efficiently. The flaw that got introduced into this great system was that it became hereditary. It should be fluid, only based on the individual's traits not his parentage.

What difference would that make? Now the world has many professions makes no sense to have it whatsoever esp not in India.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Caste system is a great system to make a society function efficiently. The flaw that got introduced into this great system was that it became hereditary. It should be fluid, only based on the individual's traits not his parentage.

Then it wouldn't be a caste system. I read your first line and thought wow, someone is actually going to have the cojones to stick up for a code of living that is very much still prevalent in India but then you bottled it. The caste system is much respected in India and Pakistan, we need to understand why so we can see what the appeal is.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Then it wouldn't be a caste system. I read your first line and thought wow, someone is actually going to have the cojones to stick up for a code of living that is very much still prevalent in India but then you bottled it. The caste system is much respected in India and Pakistan, we need to understand why so we can see what the appeal is.

As usual you enter a discussion without being informed.

The caste system is actually one which is decided by the traits of the person and not the occupation of the parents. There is a famous verse from Rig Veda which proves it.

This system got polluted during the Gupta Age.

Feel free if you want to learn more and I will provide the detailed evidence.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

As usual you enter a discussion without being informed.

The caste system is actually one which is decided by the traits of the person and not the occupation of the parents. There is a famous verse from Rig Veda which proves it.

This system got polluted during the Gupta Age.

Feel free if you want to learn more and I will provide the detailed evidence.

I am sure there are lots of apologists who will tell us about the purity of the original caste system, and I will accept you at your word, but we are talking about reality today, and the mutated caste system is very much alive, although perhaps not as vibrant as it was in the past. For that I think some credit has to go to interaction with the ruling empires of the Mughals and the British where the old social norms were disrupted, and now in the 21st century, western philosophies have supplanted them.

 

[CricketCartoons]

I am sure there are lots of apologists who will tell us about the purity of the original caste system, and I will accept you at your word, but we are talking about reality today, and the mutated caste system is very much alive, although perhaps not as vibrant as it was in the past. For that I think some credit has to go to interaction with the ruling empires of the Mughals and the British where the old social norms were disrupted, and now in the 21st century, western philosophies have supplanted them.

Prove that caste system was hereditary (you can't).
I never denied that it got corrupted.

Caste system was the original meritocracy, propounded by the true Sanatan Dharma. It was superior to the Islamic way of classifying humans, where muslims were superior to dhimmis who were superior to the kafirs. It was tragic that the best form of human classification, the caste system, was corrupted due to the greed of hindus.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Prove that caste system was hereditary (you can't).
I never denied that it got corrupted.

Caste system was the original meritocracy, propounded by the true Sanatan Dharma. It was superior to the Islamic way of classifying humans, where muslims were superior to dhimmis who were superior to the kafirs. It was tragic that the best form of human classification, the caste system, was corrupted due to the greed of hindus.

Why would I need to prove the caste system to the people who live it? We in Britain have to explain, democracy, bad weather, chicken tikka masala and embarrassing football results for the national team. The caste system is your domain, so by all means enlighten us.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Why would I need to prove the caste system to the people who live it? We in Britain have to explain, democracy, bad weather, chicken tikka masala and embarrassing football results for the national team. The caste system is your domain, so by all means enlighten us.

It is a start that you concede that you don't have knowledge of the caste system. Then I suggest you show some humility when asking to be enlightened instead of passing off statements on a topic you are not an expert on. Or wait for those who have some academic grounding on this topic to join this discussion so that you can ride their coattails.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It is a start that you concede that you don't have knowledge of the caste system. Then I suggest you show some humility when asking to be enlightened instead of passing off statements on a topic you are not an expert on. Or wait for those who have some academic grounding on this topic to join this discussion so that you can ride their coattails.

I don't recall ever claiming to be a scholar of caste system, you can go back to my first post where I specifically said we need to understand why the caste system is so respected in India and Pakistan. That in itself suggests I don't understand it and would appreciate some insight from those who live there on what it brings. Since you are an authority on the subject, by all means educate us.

 

[troodon]

It started off where people could move from one layer to the other based on their qualities. A scholarly person could become a Brahmin. A well built person could be a Kshatriya etc.

At some point, the abiulity to move from one caste to another was stopped. The creamy Caste layer started exploiting the people in the lower strata.

Caste system has no meaning in modern society of India. A Brahmin serves in the army, A Dalit can be CEO and a Teacher, A kshatriya can be a businessman and a Vysya can be a sports person.

Caste system had some utility when it started off, then it was exploited for hundreds of years by Upper Caste and now the time has come to dump it in garbage can.

Something that is centuries old cannot go away just like that. But it is good to see many inter caste marriages happening at least in big cities. I myself know several inter caste marriages and many involving Brahmins.

 

[Hitman]

Things are far better now in my state. Back in my parents's days things were absolutely horrible in the society. I won't even go into details the things I've heard out of embarrassment. Of course there wasn't violence but there was gross discrimination.

Thankfully my generation doesn't seem to care about the caste system. Forget about the caste system, my generation has seen dozens and dozens of Hindu-Muslim marriages. It's no longer uncommon now.

 

[CricketCartoons]

I don't recall ever claiming to be a scholar of caste system, you can go back to my first post where I specifically said we need to understand why the caste system is so respected in India and Pakistan. That in itself suggests I don't understand it and would appreciate some insight from those who live there on what it brings. Since you are an authority on the subject, by all means educate us.

No point educating someone who doesn't have an open mind and only wants to malign my religion.

But my religion teaches me to be kind to my enemy so I will continue. Social stratification is a natural outcome of any society. The west divides a society through economic status, because money is the real god in a capitalist society. But Sanatan Dharma groups people based on the value they bring to the society and it puts knowledge at the highest level. Teachers get a higher status compared to warriors who get higher status compared to singers and dancers. But todays westernized world puts these singers and dancers as demigods while teachers are one of the most underpaid class. India needs to go back to the caste system in its original pure pristine and divine form and be a lesson to the rest of the world.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

No point educating someone who doesn't have an open mind and only wants to malign my religion.

But my religion teaches me to be kind to my enemy so I will continue. Social stratification is a natural outcome of any society. The west divides a society through economic status, because money is the real god in a capitalist society. But Sanatan Dharma groups people based on the value they bring to the society and it puts knowledge at the highest level. Teachers get a higher status compared to warriors who get higher status compared to singers and dancers. But todays westernized world puts these singers and dancers as demigods while teachers are one of the most underpaid class. India needs to go back to the caste system in its original pure pristine and divine form and be a lesson to the rest of the world.

Capitalism gives more worth to singers and dancers, if India wants to lead the world in economic reform, how will it subdue capitalism and the natural value it places on entertainers? Are you thinking of reapplying the old values where caste would have aided in reducing the worth of dancers and singers?

 

[Abdul]

I know Jatts take pride in themselves.

 

[JaDed]

I know Jatts take pride in themselves.

That's a mild way of saying it they pretty much glorify caste to a big extent.

 

[CricketCartoons]

That's a mild way of saying it they pretty much glorify caste to a big extent.

If I say my mom is the best mom, don't know why others should feel intimidated or insulted. Everyone is free to glorify what is their own.

 

[TM Riddle]

That's a mild way of saying it they pretty much glorify caste to a big extent.

You had issues with Rajputs but the Jatts take it to a whole new level.

 

[Abdul]

That's a mild way of saying it they pretty much glorify caste to a big extent.

I don't mind though. I'm good with all of them barring freshies.

 

[big_gamer007]

People can give excuses and try to prove that 100 million years ago it was the best thing ever but fact is it is we live in present and not past.. In present it is a totally outdated system which is being used by politicians for their own gains and our public is so stupid and selfish that they don’t understand it and get used..

 

[JaDed]

You had issues with Rajputs but the Jatts take it to a whole new level.

Yes they do, worst is being a Punjabi their terribly loud songs are played in every wedding I go to.

Luckily for me after a drink I forget about caste and jus get into it so as not becoming a party pooper.

 

[CricketCartoons]

People can give excuses and try to prove that 100 million years ago it was the best thing ever but fact is it is we live in present and not past.. In present it is a totally outdated system which is being used by politicians for their own gains and our public is so stupid and selfish that they don’t understand it and get used..

Please give me another form of social stratification which is more meritorious than the original caste system of Sanatan Dharm.

 

[JaDed]

I don't mind though. I'm good with all of them barring freshies.

You being good has nothing to do with the social damage they have caused an imbalance that would take so long to rectify itself.

 

[PakLFC]

I must have been a wasp in my previous life stinging many people otherwise would have been a billionaire in this one!

 

[Slog]

Bump.

Would like to hear views of current posters

 

[CricketCartoons]

Caste system is fine, and I am proud of my caste. As long as all castes keep to themselves and don't meddle in other castes.

 

[Lurker_Ind]

Caste system is not that bad if it was fluid and people can jump from one to another easily. Rigid Caste system is a brutal way of marginalizing a section of the society based on their birth. It has no place in this day and age.

India only bans caste discrimination. What needs to be banned and outlawed is Caste system itself.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Caste system is not that bad if it was fluid and people can jump from one to another easily. Rigid Caste system is a brutal way of marginalizing a section of the society based on their birth. It has no place in this day and age.

India only bans caste discrimination. What needs to be banned and outlawed is Caste system itself.

Even rigid caste system is fine. Why should people move from one caste to another. There is religion based discrimination also, so should religion be outlawed?

 

[JaDed]

Caste system is fine, and I am proud of my caste. As long as all castes keep to themselves and don't meddle in other castes.

Rajputs(assumption) are obviously not going to have issue with castes, I wish there are massive tax benefits for inter caste marriage.. only one language Indians understand unless that of force like Russian/Chinese.

Yes religion should be outlawed as well.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Rajputs(assumption) are obviously not going to have issue with castes, I wish there are massive tax benefits for inter caste marriage.. only one language Indians understand unless that of force like Russian/Chinese.

Yes religion should be outlawed as well.

Anyone who has issues with their caste are free to get out of it. Why expect equal treatment from other castes. The govt has the duty to treat everyone equally. Private citizens are well within their right to discriminate. if I own a well, it is private property and I only want people of my caste to have access to it. What is wrong with it?

 

[JaDed]

Anyone who has issues with their caste are free to get out of it. Why expect equal treatment from other castes. The govt has the duty to treat everyone equally. Private citizens are well within their right to discriminate. if I own a well, it is private property and I only want people of my caste to have access to it. What is wrong with it?

Because history, just like you always say its important to know religious history of SC.. historical discrimination by castes cannot be ignored... why should Rajputs,Jats,Brahmins be allowed to hold any sway!
Hindu "renaissance" cannot be complete with downtrodden caste being promoted to top and uppercaste promoted downward in terms of financial and educational reservation in Govn jobs more than what it is now and even in politics.

 

[Lurker_Ind]

Even rigid caste system is fine. Why should people move from one caste to another. There is religion based discrimination also, so should religion be outlawed?

People should be able to move because a Dalit can be educated in Vedas and become a priest. A Brahmin can be good at business and become a Vysya. A Vysya can be well built and become a Kshatriya. You cannot limit them to their traditional jobs just because they are born into that family. Thats silly and nonsensical.

I am advocating for religions to be outlawed too. Caste, sectarianism, denomination are just an intra religious nonsense used for further discrimination.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Caste system is not that bad if it was fluid and people can jump from one to another easily. Rigid Caste system is a brutal way of marginalizing a section of the society based on their birth. It has no place in this day and age.

India only bans caste discrimination. What needs to be banned and outlawed is Caste system itself.

Rajputs(assumption) are obviously not going to have issue with castes, I wish there are massive tax benefits for inter caste marriage.. only one language Indians understand unless that of force like Russian/Chinese.

Yes religion should be outlawed as well.

Why dont younger Indians just have inter case marriages? Why should government pay?

Or better why dont Upper caste Hindus stop identifying themselves as upper caste? Like if you are not a priest, dont call yourself Brahmin. If you are not a soldier dont call yourself a Rajput.

Or do what Muslims do, just view case as as a male line biradari. For example Muslims can have surnames like Butt (Brahmin), and Janjua (Rajput). But there is no extra social prestige for those surnames. Social prestige is based on your socio economic status, and marriages are done on families of equal wealth.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

People should be able to move because a Dalit can be educated in Vedas and become a priest. A Brahmin can be good at business and become a Vysya. A Vysya can be well built and become a Kshatriya. You cannot limit them to their traditional jobs just because they are born into that family. Thats silly and nonsensical.

I am advocating for religions to be outlawed too. Caste, sectarianism, denomination are just an intra religious nonsense used for further discrimination.

Is there a law stopping a dalit from referring to himself as a Brahmin?

 

[JaDed]

Why dont younger Indians just have inter case marriages? Why should government pay?

Or better why dont Upper caste Hindus stop identifying themselves as upper caste? Like if you are not a priest, dont call yourself Brahmin. If you are not a soldier dont call yourself a Rajput.

Or do what Muslims do, just view case as as a male line biradari. For example Muslims can have surnames like Butt (Brahmin), and Janjua (Rajput). But there is no extra social prestige for those surnames. Social prestige is based on your socio economic status, and marriages are done on families of equal wealth.

My father's family has no caste bias , we marry outside caste including yours truly can't say the same about mother's side..even if its out of caste its usually among "upper castes".

Even if you don't care about caste, it comes into picture during arranged marriages.. probably 90% of them do arranged marriages..to be in society.

Its parental pressure and they feel pressure from extended family, similar to religion.

 

[Lurker_Ind]

Why dont younger Indians just have inter case marriages? Why should government pay?

Or better why dont Upper caste Hindus stop identifying themselves as upper caste? Like if you are not a priest, dont call yourself Brahmin. If you are not a soldier dont call yourself a Rajput.

Or do what Muslims do, just view case as as a male line biradari. For example Muslims can have surnames like Butt (Brahmin), and Janjua (Rajput). But there is no extra social prestige for those surnames. Social prestige is based on your socio economic status, and marriages are done on families of equal wealth.

Nobody really does their caste jobs anymore. Everyone is into secular jobs these days. But they love their caste tag and are proud of it. Some even sing songs on it glorifying their castes.
Inter Caste marriages are on the rise here. Just in my friends circle, I know many couples who are inter caste. But most are married to other upper castes.

I only have 2 examples of people marrying Dalits. One is a Kapoor Girl married to a Karnatake Dalit man and the other is a Brahmin Girl married to a UP Dalit man. Marrying Dalits is a bit too rare.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Because history, just like you always say its important to know religious history of SC.. historical discrimination by castes cannot be ignored... why should Rajputs,Jats,Brahmins be allowed to hold any sway!
Hindu "renaissance" cannot be complete with downtrodden caste being promoted to top and uppercaste promoted downward in terms of financial and educational reservation in Govn jobs more than what it is now and even in politics.

Dicrimination is based on many things: ethnicity, religion, race, gender. so should all these markers be banned? Why should one ethnicity be "allowed" to control something?

Btw I agree that govt should treat everyone equally and give the marginalized an extra helping hand to bring to mainstream. But it does not apply to private citizens. I am well within my right to engage with only people of my religion/ethnicty/caste. Nothing wrong with it.

 

[JaDed]

Is there a law stopping a dalit from referring to himself as a Brahmin?

Should that be for religious discrimination as well? Will you do that in USA?

 

[CricketCartoons]

People should be able to move because a Dalit can be educated in Vedas and become a priest. A Brahmin can be good at business and become a Vysya. A Vysya can be well built and become a Kshatriya. You cannot limit them to their traditional jobs just because they are born into that family. Thats silly and nonsensical.

I am advocating for religions to be outlawed too. Caste, sectarianism, denomination are just an intra religious nonsense used for further discrimination.

Caste is not about profession anymore. People from every caste take up many non traditional professions. So your point is outdated and obsolete.

 

[CricketCartoons]

My father's family has no caste bias , we marry outside caste including yours truly can't say the same about mother's side..even if its out of caste its usually among "upper castes".

Even if you don't care about caste, it comes into picture during arranged marriages.. probably 90% of them do arranged marriages..to be in society.

Its parental pressure and they feel pressure from extended family, similar to religion.

You marry outside of caste, it is your right. But no need to shame and cry discrimination for those who marry in their own castes. castes are endogamous. Next you will say that muslims practice cultural apartheid by preferring to marry with only muslims. We marry with whom we share a common bonding and culture. Nothing wrong or discriminatory about it. if your family marries outside caste, nothing great (or bad) about it either.

 

[JaDed]

You marry outside of caste, it is your right. But no need to shame and cry discrimination for those who marry in their own castes. castes are endogamous. Next you will say that muslims practice cultural apartheid by preferring to marry with only muslims. We marry with whom we share a common bonding and culture. Nothing wrong or discriminatory about it. if your family marries outside caste, nothing great (or bad) about it either.

I'll shame every upper caste person that glorifies caste , its my right because there is a historical context to it.

 

[CricketCartoons]

I'll shame every upper caste person that glorifies caste , its my right because there is a historical context to it.

no one is contesting that you dont have the right to speak anything. if that is your argument that people of certain castes dominated people of some other castes, then society has always been divided between haves and have nots. Not the job or duty of the haves to take care of the have nots. the govt should help the weaklings and the lazy ones, not job of private citizens who are enjoying the fruits of power and hard work.

 

[Slog]

Caste system is not that bad if it was fluid and people can jump from one to another easily. Rigid Caste system is a brutal way of marginalizing a section of the society based on their birth. It has no place in this day and age.

India only bans caste discrimination. What needs to be banned and outlawed is Caste system itself.

Is caste system an important part of Hinduism?

 

[Slog]

Nobody really does their caste jobs anymore. Everyone is into secular jobs these days. But they love their caste tag and are proud of it. Some even sing songs on it glorifying their castes.
Inter Caste marriages are on the rise here. Just in my friends circle, I know many couples who are inter caste. But most are married to other upper castes.

I only have 2 examples of people marrying Dalits. One is a Kapoor Girl married to a Karnatake Dalit man and the other is a Brahmin Girl married to a UP Dalit man. Marrying Dalits is a bit too rare.

Can you fake your castes? For eg If I am a Dalit then what is stopping me from calling myself one of the upper castes? Is caste put somewhere on a birth certificate or some ID?

 

[Slog]

Nobody really does their caste jobs anymore. Everyone is into secular jobs these days. But they love their caste tag and are proud of it. Some even sing songs on it glorifying their castes.
Inter Caste marriages are on the rise here. Just in my friends circle, I know many couples who are inter caste. But most are married to other upper castes.

I only have 2 examples of people marrying Dalits. One is a Kapoor Girl married to a Karnatake Dalit man and the other is a Brahmin Girl married to a UP Dalit man. Marrying Dalits is a bit too rare.

One of my good Indjan friends parents are making his life difficult and against him marrying his Girlfriend because she is of higher caste than them. Everything else is perfect like standing of family, ethnicity etc etc.

However interestingly the girls parents are totally fine with it. I always used to think higher caste people would have issue with lower caste and it wouldn’t be the case other way around

 

[CricketCartoons]

One of my good Indjan friends parents are making his life difficult and against him marrying his Girlfriend because she is of higher caste than them. Everything else is perfect like standing of family, ethnicity etc etc.

However interestingly the girls parents are totally fine with it. I always used to think higher caste people would have issue with lower caste and it wouldn’t be the case other way around

You were under the wrong impression. all castes, lower or upper, are endogamous.

 

[Bigboii]

One of my good Indjan friends parents are making his life difficult and against him marrying his Girlfriend because she is of higher caste than them. Everything else is perfect like standing of family, ethnicity etc etc.

However interestingly the girls parents are totally fine with it. I always used to think higher caste people would have issue with lower caste and it wouldn’t be the case other way around

the lower caste guy is rich right?

 

[Slog]

the lower caste guy is rich right?

No to be honest both are similar socio economic background. The guy and his family are US citizens tho and while the girl lives in US she is on a visa. But I doubt that’s a huge difference maker in this case tbh since she has good career in US and her parents are well to do in India.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

No to be honest both are similar socio economic background. The guy and his family are US citizens tho and while the girl lives in US she is on a visa. But I doubt that’s a huge difference maker in this case tbh since she has good career in US and her parents are well to do in India.

Maybe they think she will divorce once she gets green card?

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

My father's family has no caste bias , we marry outside caste including yours truly can't say the same about mother's side..even if its out of caste its usually among "upper castes".

Even if you don't care about caste, it comes into picture during arranged marriages.. probably 90% of them do arranged marriages..to be in society.

Its parental pressure and they feel pressure from extended family, similar to religion.

Nobody really does their caste jobs anymore. Everyone is into secular jobs these days. But they love their caste tag and are proud of it. Some even sing songs on it glorifying their castes.
Inter Caste marriages are on the rise here. Just in my friends circle, I know many couples who are inter caste. But most are married to other upper castes.

I only have 2 examples of people marrying Dalits. One is a Kapoor Girl married to a Karnatake Dalit man and the other is a Brahmin Girl married to a UP Dalit man. Marrying Dalits is a bit too rare.

Well intermarriage is the best way to get rid of the caste system, and at least more Indians are starting to do that. Within a few generations of intermarriage, no one will care anymore about who was Brahmin and who was Dalit.

Like in Pakistan we can have people with surname of Chauhan, and Ghauri in the same city. No one will care if they get married. Heck most people wont even know the Kings who had those surnames who fought 900 years ago.

 

[JaDed]

Well intermarriage is the best way to get rid of the caste system, and at least more Indians are starting to do that. Within a few generations of intermarriage, no one will care anymore about who was Brahmin and who was Dalit.

Like in Pakistan we can have people with surname of Chauhan, and Ghauri in the same city. No one will care if they get married. Heck most people wont even know the Kings who had those surnames who fought 900 years ago.

About 1 billion population, assuming 80% are still following caste(rural areas esp) , the change will take decades to happen on its own.

I have similar issue with religion..

 

[Slog]

Maybe they think she will divorce once she gets green card?

Lol I highly doubt that. It’s a caste issue

 

[CricketCartoons]

Lol I highly doubt that. It’s a caste issue

agarwal don't marry maheshwari or khandelwal. upper castes also don't marry among themselves. caste is just a broad cateogory, there are many jaats in a caste, and they also don't intermarry, no matter what the financial status.

 

[CricketCartoons]

About 1 billion population, assuming 80% are still following caste(rural areas esp) , the change will take decades to happen on its own.

I have similar issue with religion..

What identities you want people to retain, as you want religion and caste to disappear? Some identities are biological while some are social constructs, but they all are important markers. If a white wants to marry a white (ceteris paribus), would you want race to be abolished as well?

 

[JaDed]

What identities you want people to retain, as you want religion and caste to disappear? Some identities are biological while some are social constructs, but they all are important markers. If a white wants to marry a white (ceteris paribus), would you want race to be abolished as well?

Assuming religion is unified across among right wings, I think there shouldn't be any issue inter caste marriage.
High Tax incentives for inter caste marriages.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Assuming religion is unified across among right wings, I think there shouldn't be any issue inter caste marriage.
High Tax incentives for inter caste marriages.

Be careful what you ask for. It is the caste divisions which are keeping a check on BJP, the party you hate the most.

 

[pillionrider]

I am well within my right to engage with only people of my religion/ethnicty/caste. Nothing wrong with it.

I'm sure most people would be happy if you followed through with this

 

[pillionrider]

Can you fake your castes? For eg If I am a Dalit then what is stopping me from calling myself one of the upper castes? Is caste put somewhere on a birth certificate or some ID?

One of the most entertaining situations for me is to witness a Brahmin meeting another Brahmin stranger - the way the conversation moves, the questions that are asked to decipher the kinship, all this done slyly without openly asking the question - you a Brahmin?

Regarding your question, I suppose it is possible, though very hard. For example when Brahmin kids are admitted to a Brahmins-only hostel, they are tested in shlokas at the very basic and more rigorous tests. You could argue that a dalit could learn all this (finding someone to teach is a different beast though). Racial profiling won't work because the mythical belief that Brahmins are fair-skinned is not true. Then there is the issue of gotras. It becomes very hard to pull off, but not impossible with the right training

But above all, the Dalit trying to outwit Brahmins would have to be an atheist, because there is so much bad karma etc that would be thrown into the mix for pulling off such a deed.

According to legend there are plenty of cases of great and famous non-Brahmin rishis and even avataras of Gods who weren't born Brahmin. Not that all this would matter to someone who is born upper caste.

If you are born with some privilege, why would someone want to forsake it. It's a rare person who would do that. And that sums up the story of caste in India. I can't see how it would go away anytime as long as religion is around.

 

[pillionrider]

^^
The above assumes the Dalit has managed to get his birth/caste certificate all changed which can be arranged with a lot of money. Not sure about how much it would cost to make a leap from Dalit to Brahmin or even some other upper caste.

I knew a guy in college who went the other way around. He paid and got himself changed from a Backward Tribe to a Scheduled Caste or Tribe, not sure. To help him get a better Engineering seat

With all this said, just want to add, the reality in India today is - it's the non-Brahmin upper castes, who in practice, illtreat the Dalits the worst. But with the volume knob of Brahmin voices being turned up under the BJP, this could change.

 

[Pakpak]

^^
The above assumes the Dalit has managed to get his birth/caste certificate all changed which can be arranged with a lot of money. Not sure about how much it would cost to make a leap from Dalit to Brahmin or even some other upper caste.

I knew a guy in college who went the other way around. He paid and got himself changed from a Backward Tribe to a Scheduled Caste or Tribe, not sure. To help him get a better Engineering seat

With all this said, just want to add, the reality in India today is - it's the non-Brahmin upper castes, who in practice, illtreat the Dalits the worst. But with the volume knob of Brahmin voices being turned up under the BJP, this could change.

What caste is Modi himself? Does caste play any role in elections?

 

[CricketCartoons]

^^
The above assumes the Dalit has managed to get his birth/caste certificate all changed which can be arranged with a lot of money. Not sure about how much it would cost to make a leap from Dalit to Brahmin or even some other upper caste.

I knew a guy in college who went the other way around. He paid and got himself changed from a Backward Tribe to a Scheduled Caste or Tribe, not sure. To help him get a better Engineering seat

With all this said, just want to add, the reality in India today is - it's the non-Brahmin upper castes, who in practice, illtreat the Dalits the worst. But with the volume knob of Brahmin voices being turned up under the BJP, this could change.

Dalits are not one monolith. There are various jatis, which have their own enmity between them. the jatavs (chamaar) are against the pasis. In the end it is all about fighting for resources. When jatavs occupy the lions share of SC reservations, other dalit jatis resent them. They don't intermarry either. Those who says castes should go away, should go and ask jatavs, pasis and khatiks what would they like to identify as without caste.

 

[sweep_shot]

Caste system is very discriminating and shocking. All humans are equal.

 

[JaDed]

Caste system is very discriminating and shocking. All humans are equal.

Religion is the future caste system once world evolves. Guess supporting Chinese Communism is the only way ahead to change society

 

[JaDed]

^^
The above assumes the Dalit has managed to get his birth/caste certificate all changed which can be arranged with a lot of money. Not sure about how much it would cost to make a leap from Dalit to Brahmin or even some other upper caste.

I knew a guy in college who went the other way around. He paid and got himself changed from a Backward Tribe to a Scheduled Caste or Tribe, not sure. To help him get a better Engineering seat

With all this said, just want to add, the reality in India today is - it's the non-Brahmin upper castes, who in practice, illtreat the Dalits the worst. But with the volume knob of Brahmin voices being turned up under the BJP, this could change.

I know 2 and one of them was my cousin, and inspite of that still didn't manage to get admission in college on merit it was that bad!!!

Haven't spoken to him for 10 years now.

 

[pillionrider]

What caste is Modi himself? Does caste play any role in elections?

He is not upper caste Not sure what he is exactly.

But to me he seems like a wannabe-Brahmin in the last 5-6 yeas. The way his appearance has changed over the years, is like someone trying hard to give himself a Brahmin look. Before he came to power, many actually thought he was Brahmin. Though that didn't really have much of a role to play in his victory. His biggest fanbase is among the Brahmins who're aware he's not one of them.

Caste has had a massive role over the years. There have been parties who win in different states playing the caste or linguistic card. To a certain extent I'm ok with that, since India is not homogeneous, and so long as something exists, you need a voice to represent it. Or else, a larger, more powerful voice can erode it - and not exactly in a way that's nice.

What the BJP have so far been successful in doing is consolidating the Hindu vote and convincing Hindu lower castes that they give a damn about them. There are different organisations working around the country in this regard. The RSS for years have been working in villages enlisting lower castes - some dalits got a rude shock several years into their activism when upper caste leaders refused to eat their offered food. But too little, too late.

Then there are myriad organisations working hard along the coast and among tribals specifically, teaching them Sanskrit and convincing them they're worthy, equal Hindus. I personally have a family member involved in one such group. But it's all hogwash since they don't really think of their audience as equals.

Sometimes I feel hopeless about the future. But then I look at the average Hindu and am reassured that - there's only so much religion, a Hindu can run on. At some point, he just wants to settle down, have his meals, look to his family needs and sleep in peace. And that gives some hope.

 

[pillionrider]

I know 2 and one of them was my cousin, and inspite of that still didn't manage to get admission in college on merit it was that bad!!!

Haven't spoken to him for 10 years now.

For being so useless?

 

[JaDed]

For being so useless?

Naw he is a Model now.. but we grew apart.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

Caste system is fine, and I am proud of my caste. As long as all castes keep to themselves and don't meddle in other castes.

I'm intrigued as the concept is fine. It's the proliferation of the 'middle class' emerging from Punjab, the Jaat. Is it traditionally poor farmers or affluent landowners?

 

[King_Kohli]

As several Indians have pointed out in the past, this wretched problem is not unique to Hindus, at least in India. It's there among the Christian community too.

Do Pakistani Muslims have a similar issue. Who is considered superior?


SOURCE

In my village few people converted to Christianity, the form a group and pray within their premises.
The don't mingle with other low caste Christians and they don't go their churches.

I raised by my grandma who is converted Christian, I used to go church every weekend.
My grandma passed during my college days. My parents are Hindus' but not religious, visit temples once or twice in year.
Myself I am not practicing Christianity but believe Jesus and Hinduism.

My Aunt ,BIL and few other relatives are now strict Christians but they dont go churches where low caste people attend.

Now there are many changes in society, intercaste marriages on rampage.
Parents are accepting , majority of people welcoming.

 

[Abdullah719]

“Due To Caste”: Woman Panchayat Leader Made To Sit On Floor For Meeting

Spoiler

Chennai: A photograph showing an elected woman panchayat leader sitting on the floor during a meeting she ought to preside over - while others sit on chairs - has sparked outrage in Tamil Nadu and exposed deeply entrenched discriminative practices in the southern state.
The District Collector in Tamil Nadu’s Cuddalore, where the incident took place, has suspended the panchayat’s secretary for failing to inform the authorities and has ordered a probe.

The woman seen in the photograph that was widely circulated on social media is the President of the Therku Thittai village panchayat and belongs to the Adi Dravida community, a Scheduled Caste. She was elected to her post - a reserved seat - last year.

“Because of my caste the Vice President does not let me preside over meeting. He did not even let me hoist the flag. He made his father do it. Although I was cooperating with the upper castes all these months, it is going overboard now,” she said.

The Vice President of, who is currently on the run, is to be arrested and charged under the SC/ST (Prevention of Atrocities) Act.

Despite laws banning untouchability and caste-based discrimination, these are still practiced across Tamil Nadu, with restrictions on cooking utensils and crockery (“upper castes” refuse to eat food prepared by the “lower castes” or use plates and glasses they use) and dressing among others.

In many villages there are also designated areas for Scheduled Castes to live and they are not allowed wear footwear when they pass through areas where the “upper castes” live. In the past many have been caught on camera carrying slippers in their hands in those areas.

Until a decade ago three reserved village panchayats - Pappapatti, Keeripatti and Nattarmangalam in Madurai district - had no Scheduled Caste candidates contesting out of fear of the dominant castes’ backlash.

Those who dared to contest and win were forced to resign, making a mockery of the electoral reservation system to politically empower men and women from oppressed communities.
Women from these communities continue to be sexually abused.

In Tuticorin district there have even been reports of dogs adopted by members of the oppressed communities being forced to stay away from those adopted by the “upper castes”.

There are also separate cremation grounds.

The Scheduled Caste communities are politically divided and are not strong vote bank. The Dravidian political parties in the state are unwilling to crackdown on these atrocities as the “upper castes” are, by contrast, a strong vote bank.

https://www.ndtv.com/tamil-nadu-new...ader-made-to-sit-on-floor-for-meeting-2308070

 

[Kroll]

So what caste are our PP'ers from the Hindu community on here, and how do you feel about it? Has it or does it affect you in any way?

PS: Sorry if already answered as I haven't looked through the thread.