IPL franchise owners openly being allowed to discriminate in non-Indian leagues?

[nish_mate]

In England, a place where law, order & clean water are valued very highly, the British Raj will not approve these draconian practices for too long.

Thames water and OFWAT would disagree on the water bit

 

[sithb]

That equivalence doesn’t hold. England has the right to enforce its laws in its land.

So if their national policy dictates that Russians cannot play, it’s EXACTLY as India not allowing Pakistanis to playing the IPL.

If one is wrong, so is the other

The argument is about a foreign third party (IPL owners) enforcing THEIR (India’s) country’s policies in England.

All that said, proving that there is discrimination by IPL owners will not be straight forward.

Fair point. I agree.

 

[sithb]

Looking at the players that have been retained so far , there are only three teams who probably need spinners.

Birmingham already have Rehan Ahmed. One other team has an overseas slot filled by Santner. I don't see teams going spin heavy although one more spinner would be nice.

There are only 2 overseas slots left for the franchises. It's not the same as the IPL where the squad goes upto 8 overseas players and the 4 overseas players in the team rule.

It would only be the all-rounders who would be picked from Pakistan. And at that point , with the approach that Pakistani cricketers approach T20 , who would pick them ?

From a sporting perspective. There probably is an unwritten agreement by the Indian led franchises to avoid picking Pakistani players but there seems to be some sporting rationale to justify that as well.

 

[sithb]

The point is that Pakistani cricketers aren't banned from the IPL technically ,they can put their names up for the auction. Franchises just aren't picking them.

It's a thin line. I am not defending the franchises here. Just playing a devil's advocate.

 

[rpant_gabba]

Interesting. How are these different?

From my time in the US, when I was in a position to recruit individuals, we were specifically briefed by legal that religion, race, and nationality could not be grounds for non- selection. Foreign citizens, if they had legal work permits, were included in this. The Civil Rights Act and the Immigration Act were cited but it was a long time ago.

Of course you had to be able to prove discrimination which was very difficult. So just because someone says it’s discrimination isn’t enough, you need to show it.

and some how I always got majority of resumes which seemed to mattch the "backgound" of the recruiter.

 

[BouncerGuy]

STAY ON TOPIC ABOUT IPL OWNERS

 

[cricketjoshila]

Correct.

Bhakts need to understand their discrimination is unlikely to work outside of India (particularly in the West). They shouldn't try to bite more than they can chew.

Go and cry a river

 

[cricketjoshila]

and some how I always got majority of resumes which seemed to mattch the "backgound" of the recruiter.

That’s inherent bias

 

[cricketjoshila]

That equivalence doesn’t hold. England has the right to enforce its laws in its land.

So if their national policy dictates that Russians cannot play, it’s EXACTLY as India not allowing Pakistanis to playing the IPL.

If one is wrong, so is the other

The argument is about a foreign third party (IPL owners) enforcing THEIR (India’s) country’s policies in England.

All that said, proving that there is discrimination by IPL owners will not be straight forward.

IPL owners are not third party they have majority stake in these teams and unless the law says Pakistanis have to be compulsorily hired, no laws is being broken.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Birmingham phoenix isn’t owned by indians why don’t they hire pakistanis?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Investing millions does not necessarily Means you can do whatever you like. There is protocols you have to follow as well. This is not India FYI.

Those protocols don’t say compulsory hiring of Pakistanis, this isn’t psL fyi

 

[sithb]

Birmingham phoenix isn’t owned by indians why don’t they hire pakistanis?

They already have Rehan Ahmed. Why do they need one more spinner? And then to have to cut their overseas quota. They only have 2 overseas spots to fill.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Ipl owners will be smart if they pick a saffer black giy in the auction for their foreign quota, good luck to anyone who wants that black guy replaced by a Pakistani, and the reason for hiring a saffer is striaght forward the owners have a good working with csa due to sa20 and hence they want to work with a organisation they are familiar w

 

[cricketjoshila]

Correct.

Bhakts need to understand their discrimination is unlikely to work outside of India (particularly in the West). They shouldn't try to bite more than they can chew.

You didn’t realise how little Bangladesh matter in cricket

 

[Rana]

Birmingham phoenix isn’t owned by indians why don’t they hire pakistanis?

Why don’t all 8 franchises agree to hire anyone without discrimination?

Dimagh main itna gobar kyun bhara hua hai? How is this hard to understand??

 

[Cryin Out Loud]

IPL owners are not third party they have majority stake in these teams and unless the law says Pakistanis have to be compulsorily hired, no laws is being broken.

First, IPL owners are operating in a foreign country. I was pointing out the fallacy in arguing that just because the English Premier League disallows Russian players in England, IPL owners can disallow Pakistani players in England.

Second it’s definitely not how the law works. The law forbids workplace discrimination, including non-hiring, on grounds of Nationality. That’s all that is needed in the wording, without specifying if that nationality is Pakistani or Ethiopian.

 

[sithb]

Who are the Pakistani spin bowling all-rounders who are absolutely knocking the doors down and who the franchises have to go for a bidding war ?

 

[sithb]

First, IPL owners are operating in a foreign country. I was pointing out the fallacy in arguing that just because the English Premier League disallows Russian players in England, IPL owners can disallow Pakistani players in England.

Second it’s definitely not how the law works. The law forbids workplace discrimination, including non-hiring, on grounds of Nationality. That’s all that is needed in the wording, without specifying if that nationality is Pakistani or Ethiopian.

And again. Very tough to prove. It's not as if Pakistani cricketers are breaking barriers and being the best in the world types

 

[rpant_gabba]

IPL owners are not third party they have majority stake in these teams and unless the law says Pakistanis have to be compulsorily hired, no laws is being broken.

I think you have an opportunity to take a different tack on your posts. I share your sentiment on most of the topics. I do think think that you can reach for a different "spice" the posts, you don't have to set things on fire in order to deal with a situation.

A quieter cleaner option would be tie a huge rock and encourage them to jump in the water. quiet. clean. gets the job done.

 

[Cryin Out Loud]

And again. Very tough to prove. It's not as if Pakistani cricketers are breaking barriers and being the best in the world types

Yes that is absolutely true.

We are all faffing around having a theoretical discussion because it will be tough to prove in practice.

But if these franchises hire no Pakistani player this year and the next and the next, well things will get interesting.

 

[Rana]

Yes that is absolutely true.

We are all faffing around having a theoretical discussion because it will be tough to prove in practice.

But if these franchises hire no Pakistani player this year and the next and the next, well things will get interesting.

I think Public outrage and pressure in England has its impact when it comes to such things.

There was no legal basis to cancel away fans from entering Aston Villa for the Macabi Haifa game. This news breaking out on BBC and being picked up by seasoned English press journalists and England cricketers is a big deal. They are not having it. It doesn’t matter what legal clause the new owners try to hide behind, the British Public won’t have it.

 

[gibsyhesperis]

IPL owners are not third party they have majority stake in these teams and unless the law says Pakistanis have to be compulsorily hired, no laws is being broken.

Incorrect.
They don’t own the majority stakes in the teams — only in Manchester Giants where RSPG have a 70% stake.
In the other franchises the stake from the IPL owners is up to 49% with the counties holding the majority
eg for MI London, Reliance own 49% with Surrey holding 51%.
So you are wrong here.

The issue will be whether any potential employer can be shown to have discrimated in hiring practices.
This tends to be hard to prove, but was a route take by Indian doctors who came to the U.K. in the 70s….the position from GP practices at that time was that they were not as good, or well trained, as English trained doctors and that there language skills were poor.
This is why at that time many Indian doctors ended up working in poor areas in the U.K. where English doctors did not want to work.
Times changed as have equality laws.

Under U.K. law if it can be proven that discrimination has occurred it is an offence — whilst this will be difficult to prove, as the majority of the franchises are English county owned they will not want the bad publicity and opprobrium that will inevitably ensue.

 

[Cryin Out Loud]

Incorrect.
They don’t own the majority stakes in the teams — only in Manchester Giants where RSPG have a 70% stake.
In the other franchises the stake from the IPL owners is up to 49% with the counties holding the majority
eg for MI London, Reliance own 49% with Surrey holding 51%.
So you are wrong here.

The issue will be whether any potential employer can be shown to have discrimated in hiring practices.
This tends to be hard to prove, but was a route take by Indian doctors who came to the U.K. in the 70s….the position from GP practices at that time was that they were not as good, or well trained, as English trained doctors and that there language skills were poor.
This is why at that time many Indian doctors ended up working in poor areas in the U.K. where English doctors did not want to work.
Times changed as have equality laws.

Under U.K. law if it can be proven that discrimination has occurred it is an offence — whilst this will be difficult to prove, as the majority of the franchises are English county owned they will not want the bad publicity and opprobrium that will inevitably ensue.

If indeed the counties own the majority in most of the franchises, then not only does the blame (for non- recruitment) get shared, I don’t see how they can blame Indians for it. And I don’t know if such a policy will be allowed in the first place.

Great post by the way, thanks for the data.

 

[sithb]

The Leeds county is totally owned by sun TV right now

 

[just a fan]

First, IPL owners are operating in a foreign country. I was pointing out the fallacy in arguing that just because the English Premier League disallows Russian players in England, IPL owners can disallow Pakistani players in England.

Second it’s definitely not how the law works. The law forbids workplace discrimination, including non-hiring, on grounds of Nationality. That’s all that is needed in the wording, without specifying if that nationality is Pakistani or Ethiopian.

Mhmm! Maybe you can try lecturing more Indian fans about your perceived discrimination & laws and see if that helps

 

[cricketjoshila]

I think you have an opportunity to take a different tack on your posts. I share your sentiment on most of the topics. I do think think that you can reach for a different "spice" the posts, you don't have to set things on fire in order to deal with a situation.

A quieter cleaner option would be tie a huge rock and encourage them to jump in the water. quiet. clean. gets the job done.

You can’t beat around the bush

Ambani has a 100 bn dollar business in India hanging by the thread. If he hires a Pakistani player, will he save 100bnusd or a few millions invested in ecb league,

If ecb makes hiring Pakistanis compulsory most Indian investors will go away, rather than risk their billion dollar businesses. Just look what happened to malabar gold and diamond company

 

[sweep_shot]

IPL owners can be in big trouble if they try to discriminate same way they discriminate in India.

UK is not a jungle like India.

ECB need to be firm and let IPL owners know what's acceptable and what's not.

 

[Rana]

ECB need to be firm and let IPL owners know what's acceptable and what's not

This is where the ECB failed until the BBC spoilt the plot for them. Like Cricket South Africa, the ECB were hoping this would just pass by quietly

 

[Rana]

All of this exposes the sheer hypocrisy of South Africa’s so called equality on race issues lol

No one in South Africa cared when Pakistanis were being discriminated against in their money grabbing league

At least, the English public can call a spade a spade!

 

[gibsyhesperis]

You can’t beat around the bush

Ambani has a 100 bn dollar business in India hanging by the thread. If he hires a Pakistani player, will he save 100bnusd or a few millions invested in ecb league,

If ecb makes hiring Pakistanis compulsory most Indian investors will go away, rather than risk their billion dollar businesses. Just look what happened to malabar gold and diamond company

This is confusing.

Are you suggesting that the Indian government would be so petty that they would punish an individual because a franchise in a foreign country , in which he had a stake, but was not a majority owner, hired a Pakistani ?

If that is what you are intimating, that rather smacks of a dictatorial regime rather than the world’s largest democracy ….

 

[sweep_shot]

This is confusing.

Are you suggesting that the Indian government would be so petty that they would punish an individual because a franchise in a foreign country , in which he had a stake, but was not a majority owner, hired a Pakistani ?

If that is what you are intimating, that rather smacks of a dictatorial regime rather than the world’s largest democracy ….

@cricketjoshila writes like he is in charge of BCCI/GOI/RAW.

The way he writes, one would think government of India consults him before deciding something.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Yes that is absolutely true.

We are all faffing around having a theoretical discussion because it will be tough to prove in practice.

But if these franchises hire no Pakistani player this year and the next and the next, well things will get interesting.

They can keep hiring players from the same country every year and say we want continuity, unless there’s a law that says Pakistanis players have to be hired, the teams have to infinite number of ways to to not hire one while having a legally viable excuse

 

[cricketjoshila]

This is confusing.

Are you suggesting that the Indian government would be so petty that they would punish an individual because a franchise in a foreign country , in which he had a stake, but was not a majority owner, hired a Pakistani ?

If that is what you are intimating, that rather smacks of a dictatorial regime rather than the world’s largest democracy ….

Government doesn’t need to public sentiment will be enough to cause irreparable damage to the brand

There’s nothing dictatorial about not letting funds from india go into funds of a hostile country

 

[Rana]

Government doesn’t need to public sentiment will be enough to cause irreparable damage to the brand

There’s nothing dictatorial about not letting funds from india go into funds of a hostile country

What a stupid argument

So what about the millions of pounds earned by Pakistani players in English county, Hundred and league cricket in the past being used as tax money back home in Pakistan?

So the English Government was funding Pakistan proxy wars???

 

[gibsyhesperis]

Government doesn’t need to public sentiment will be enough to cause irreparable damage to the brand

There’s nothing dictatorial about not letting funds from india go into funds of a hostile country

England is a “hostile country” ?

 

[Ball Blazer]

Good to see English media and players raising their voices for this senseless discrimination

 

[Rana]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2024949077838909618

 

[Rana]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2025164542687469998

This is a misleading piece/take

The ECB could well deflect all this if the non-Indian owned franchises bid for Pakistan players and use that as their guise of an “inclusive” league.

It won’t solve the core issue though. The fact that the franchises with Indian ownership have successfully executed their plan to disqualify Pakistani cricketers will still be there.

 

[Varun]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2025164542687469998

This is a misleading piece/take

The ECB could well deflect all this if the non-Indian owned franchises bid for Pakistan players and use that as their guise of an “inclusive” league.

It won’t solve the core issue though. The fact that the franchises with Indian ownership have successfully executed their plan to disqualify Pakistani cricketers will still be there.

What if they say they aren't hiring Pakistani players for team combination reasons? How will you prove otherwise?

 

[Rana]

What if they say they aren't hiring Pakistani players for team combination reasons? How will you prove otherwise?

Because the BBC leak suggests they are not hiring them for team combination

 

[rpant_gabba]

Because the BBC leak suggests they are not hiring them for team combination

Is the plan to present BBC leaks as evidence court?

 

[rpant_gabba]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2025172318683566189

 

[HitWicket]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2025172318683566189

The amount of people completely missing the point is staggering (although it's not surprising from disgusting racist lowlifes like this). If Pakistani's don't get picked up because of their availability/ability that's no problem. The problem is ECB officials stating that half the teams won't even consider certain players on the basis of their nationality because of their racism, which is illegal.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I think Public outrage and pressure in England has its impact when it comes to such things.

There was no legal basis to cancel away fans from entering Aston Villa for the Macabi Haifa game. This news breaking out on BBC and being picked up by seasoned English press journalists and England cricketers is a big deal. They are not having it. It doesn’t matter what legal clause the new owners try to hide behind, the British Public won’t have it.

And Indian public won’t have Indian companies hiring Pakistani cricketers, we all know where these ipl owners get their money from, if today they bend and hire pakistanis in uk, tommorow similar media elements will demand they do the same in sa20 and il20


If put under pressure these guys are more likely to walk out than hiring pakistanis

The hundred will then lose millions in investments and will remain a poor league, uk public can then watch as many Pakistanis as they want

 

[Rana]

And Indian public won’t have Indian companies hiring Pakistani cricketers, we all know where these ipl owners get their money from, if today they bend and hire pakistanis in uk, tommorow similar media elements will demand they do the same in sa20 and il20

What happens in SA is not the concern of British public

The British public have voiced their concern on what matters to them.

 

[cricketjoshila]

England is a “hostile country” ?

Pakistan is a hostile country and giving money to to Pakistanis will have serious public backlash for these guys and their companies, i am not exaggerating, just google about what malabar gold and diamond company faced for hiring a Pakistani

 

[Rana]

Pakistan is a hostile country and giving money to to Pakistanis will have serious public backlash for these guys and their companies

Well then quite honestly, they (the Indian owners) should F off from England.

Tournament prize money won by a team with Pakistan players will be used for tax in Pakistan. English money that comes through funding from Indian owners paying membership fees.

 

[rpant_gabba]

Pakistan is a hostile country and giving money to to Pakistanis will have serious public backlash for these guys and their companies, i am not exaggerating, just google about what malabar gold and diamond company faced for hiring a Pakistani

dude, seriously work on a different angle.

 

[Local.Dada]

Well then quite honestly, they (the Indian owners) should F off from England.

Tournament prize money won by a team with Pakistan players will be used for tax in Pakistan. English money that comes through funding from Indian owners paying membership fees.

Why can’t a Pakistani conglomerate invest and not hire a single Indian player ? I would have 0 issues with it.

It’s a private franchise, you can’t have a gun to their head to pick a player.

Let’s say I am an owner, I will say I want to hire Boult ahead of Shaheen as I think Boult is better. What can anyone do about it?

 

[rpant_gabba]

The amount of people completely missing the point is staggering (although it's not surprising from disgusting racist lowlifes like this). If Pakistani's don't get picked up because of their availability/ability that's no problem. The problem is ECB officials stating that half the teams won't even consider certain players on the basis of their nationality because of their racism, which is illegal.

so is this actual ECB officials stating this or Pak players agents spreading rumors? I know Pak and its diaspora are saints and would never resort such things.

 

[Rana]

Why can’t a Pakistani conglomerate invest and not hire a single Indian player ? I would have 0 issues with it.

Do Indian posters have a daily quota of how much Backwas they should spurn in a day on the internet?

 

[Local.Dada]

Do Indian posters have a daily quota of how much Backwas they should spurn in a day on the internet?

What bakwas? A private company can hire who the hell they want. What’s so complicated about it. If they are discriminating Pak players after hiring them by all means it is discriminatory but hiring is a personal choice. Also BBC’s opinions have 0 value, what is this 1930 colonial era? 0 Fs are given.

 

[Rana]

No more discussion with Indian posters who are promoting racism and discrimination in England.

Go and take your toilet mentality back to India where it belongs!

 

[HitWicket]

What bakwas? A private company can hire who the hell they want. What’s so complicated about it. If they are discriminating Pak players after hiring them by all means it is discriminatory but hiring is a personal choice. Also BBC’s opinions have 0 value, what is this 1930 colonial era? 0 Fs are given.

No it's not. If you're refusing to consider hiring someone on the basis of their nationality then that is a crime.

 

[rpant_gabba]

No it's not. If you're refusing to consider hiring someone on the basis of their nationality then that is a crime.

prove it. take it to court.

Do Pak citizens even have standing to challenge the teams? Who has the authority to initiate any action against the team?

 

[Local.Dada]

No it's not. If you're refusing to consider hiring someone on the basis of their nationality then that is a crime.

How will you prove the bias? There is no official policy or documentation. The management will just pick players on their combo and choice and budget. Court of law doesn’t work on your perception. You think billion dollar companies (not talking about the franchises) won’t have the legal workaround for it?

 

[Rana]

How will you prove the bias?

We won’t bother to prove it, jaa! Continue with your backwas mentality!

 

[rpant_gabba]

How will you prove the bias? There is no official policy or documentation. The management will just pick players on their combo and choice and budget. Court of law doesn’t work on your perception. You think billion dollar companies (not talking about the franchises) won’t have the legal workaround for it?

you are talking to a brainless numbskull who swore WCA has major influence in ICC and that IPL revenues should be regarded part of ICC distribution to BCCI.

I suggest keeping your messages short as there is no intelligent reciever on the other end

 

[HitWicket]

How will you prove the bias? There is no official policy or documentation. The management will just pick players on their combo and choice and budget. Court of law doesn’t work on your perception. You think billion dollar companies (not talking about the franchises) won’t have the legal workaround for it?

As I've said before, the fact ECB officials are telling agents that the teams in question won't consider Pakistani players makes it pretty clear that's been communicated to them at some point.

 

[jnaveen1980]

March 12th is the auction day. let us wait. That is 3 weeks out

 

[ameer219]

Those protocols don’t say compulsory hiring of Pakistanis, this isn’t psL fyi

This isn't IPL FYI. You still have to follow the hiring practices in alignment of England laws which is bigger than cricket.

 

[HitWicket]

prove it. take it to court.

Do Pak citizens even have standing to challenge the teams? Who has the authority to initiate any action against the team?

It would have to be someone who has been discriminated again (or someone working on their behalf).

The Cricket Regulator also have jurisdiction to launch private investigations into any discrimination cases in English cricket.

 

[Local.Dada]

As I've said before, the fact ECB officials are telling agents that the teams in question won't consider Pakistani players makes it pretty clear that's been communicated to them at some point.

Then ECB should ban those franchises and not take their money based on official communication and proof as it violates British labor law. Let’s see how that will work out.

 

[rpant_gabba]

It would have to be someone who has been discriminated again (or someone working on their behalf).

The Cricket Regulator also have jurisdiction to launch private investigations into any discrimination cases in English cricket.

Given that there were 0 Pak players picked last year and not exactly history of many Pak players in the Hundred, what exactly would be the reason for thew cricket regulator to launch an investigation?

Assuming, they do, it would be easy defence of PCB not honoring contracts, Pak players are tied to PCB ergo Pak players don't honor contracts on top of being **** players.

 

[Rana]

It would have to be someone who has been discriminated again (or someone working on their behalf).

The Cricket Regulator also have jurisdiction to launch private investigations into any discrimination cases in English cricket.

As if ECB can afford another investigation after Azeem Rafique

 

[Varun]

Because the BBC leak suggests they are not hiring them for team combination

Leaks and hearsay won't stand the test in any court of law.

 

[Rana]

Leaks and hearsay won't stand the test in any court of law.

So how did Azeem Rafiq win his case against Yorkshire?

 

[Varun]

So how did Azeem Rafiq win his case against Yorkshire?

Because of solid proof and testimonies by relevant individuals.

 

[rpant_gabba]

Because of solid proof and testimonies by relevant individuals.

I'm sure they are counting on you out to step up on their behalf.

 

[cricketjoshila]

We won’t bother to prove it, jaa! Continue with your backwas mentality!

Phir thread khol ke kitna ro ra ha hai

 

[cricketjoshila]

Because of solid proof and testimonies by relevant individuals.

Who are the relevant individuals here? A unknown agent a unknown ecb official?

 

[Varun]

Who are the relevant individuals here? A unknown agent a unknown ecb official?

Nobody. Hence, this won't pass the test in any court of law.