What's new

Is Alastair Cook an all-time great?

Is Alastair Cook an all-time great?

  • Total voters
    14
Cook's advantage as well as disadvantage over the years has been England playing way too much test cricket. It's helped him accumulate so much in such a short time but at the expense of a not so impressive average. Him being the opener makes things all the more difficult for him. So much better when you're out of form and there's not a lot of cricket going on.

A Kumar Sangakkara gets out of a disastrous foreign tour without much impact on his statistics after having only played 2 tests. For Cook, these big series are usually 4-5 tests long. Being out of form takes a massive toll on his statistics by the end of the tour. His gigantic double hundreds are a reminder of the legend that still lives in him.
 
James said:
An England great and a very good Test batsman. I don’t think the last handful of flops has any impact on his legacy. Just last year he got two double tons! - one at home, and then one in Australia (possibly against a tampered ball lol). It does seem as if his eyes are going though, and he does not seem to have the motivation or hunger to open anymore. I would play him down the order and see how that goes.
Click to expand...

That's brutal :))
 
freelance_cricketer said:
Cook was monstrous in the triumphant Ashes & Indian tours in 2010, 2012 respectively.
Click to expand...

Yes that's one Ashes series out of 7 he's played in that you could say he put in a good performance. What about the other 6?

He's a decent player of spin on the whole especially for an English opening batsman. But he hasn't got the technique to face decent pace bowlers.

His 12000 runs have come through cashing in against weaker attacks, grafting and working hard to make the odd score against decent attacks (among many failures) and playing so many tests per year as an England player.

I can't think of a single strong pace attack that he has dominated consistently. Shouldn't even be in the discussion as an ATG. I rate him as slightly better than Strauss.
 
I'd argue it's better to get a 4-5 test series over a 2 test series since you get a chance to acclimatise.

A player like Sangakkara went to a place like Australia rarely and only got 2 tests. The warm ups aren't great quality and by the time you get used to conditions the series is over.

Also it's those big test series that allow you to forge your reputation. Sangakkara only got a chance to play 5 tests in Australia and averaged 60 over those 5 tests but no one really remembers him.

Someone like Cook has played 20 tests in Australia, which gives him a chance to get more notice and attention. He only did well in one series there but he's remembered forever for that and allowed for failures in other series where the Aus attacks were much stronger.
 
Cook is nowhere near ATG. Since when standards of ATG fell so low? His average is just good enough for national great.

Anybody would score 12k runs if they played 150+ tests. ATG is not a cheap throwaway term, it's reserved for legends like Gavaskar, Viv Richards, Tendulkar etc. Putting Cook's name beside those giants is an insult to them
 
LegendAli said:
I question even being a England great at this point, what a terrible tailender he's been for the past three years.

You're calling him an England great, because?...
​
Click to expand...

I would take a guess that it doesn't take much to be an England great compared to other countries. :P

If the mediocre Atherton and the middling Vaughan are considered greats out there, why not Cook who is clearly a rung above them?
 
Varun said:
I would take a guess that it doesn't take much to be an England great compared to other countries. :P

If the mediocre Atherton and the middling Vaughan are considered greats out there, why not Cook who is clearly a rung above them?
Click to expand...

Let's wait for him to respond, waiting to hear it.
 
Cook should retire now. I dont see him surviving more now, maybe take one home series to call it off.

An English great.
 
LegendAli said:
I question even being a England great at this point, what a terrible tailender he's been for the past three years.

You're calling him an England great, because?...
​
Click to expand...

Averaged 42.33 (3 not outs) in 2016, and 47.31 (1 not out) in 2017. Hasn't been brilliant, but not tailendersque either.
 
Hitman said:
Averaged 42.33 (3 not outs) in 2016, and 47.31 (1 not out) in 2017. Hasn't been brilliant, but not tailendersque either.
Click to expand...

He scored a double hundred vs WI and one in Ashes 4th test last year on a really flat dull wicket in Melbourne. Apart from that, he didnt do anything. Think he should retire now. His eyes are gone and there is no way he can perform against any of top 6 oppositions unless he is served a phatta.
 
Ab Fan said:
He scored a double hundred vs WI and one in Ashes 4th test last year on a really flat dull wicket in Melbourne. Apart from that, he didnt do anything. Think he should retire now. His eyes are gone and there is no way he can perform against any of top 6 oppositions unless he is served a phatta.
Click to expand...

That's why I said he wasn't brilliant, but not tailendersque either.
 
Surely Cook is the worst batsman to score more than 10k run in tests? If only all other batsmen had the opportunity to play 150+ tests
 
Hitman said:
Mahela Jayawardene was worse, an absolutely horrible FTB.
Click to expand...

Jayawardene might be meek overseas. But at home and generally on turning pitches he is a match winner against every bowler. Cook even at his best needs support at other end and he sucks against good bowlers at home too.
 
Yes. Opening in England is as tough as it gets. He has a mountain of runs and many iconic knocks home and away. He is a 2nd tier ATG.
 
bujhee kom said:
Yes. Opening in England is as tough as it gets. He has a mountain of runs and many iconic knocks home and away. He is a 2nd tier ATG.
Click to expand...

Tell me these iconic knocks either home and away. Give me 5 that were made against a decent bowling attack that were not on roads.
 
WengerOut said:
Jayawardene might be meek overseas. But at home and generally on turning pitches he is a match winner against every bowler. Cook even at his best needs support at other end and he sucks against good bowlers at home too.
Click to expand...

Jaya was brilliant at home, I'll agree with that. But absolutely dreadful away from home.
 
CricketTruth said:
Tell me these iconic knocks either home and away. Give me 5 that were made against a decent bowling attack that were not on roads.
Click to expand...

You will simply state x attack was poor or y track was flat. He has bossed series in India and Aust. That alone elevates him.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
bujhee kom said:
Yes. Opening in England is as tough as it gets. He has a mountain of runs and many iconic knocks home and away. He is a 2nd tier ATG.
Click to expand...

If Cook is ATG then throw the ATG term to trash can please. Every Tom, Dick, Harry and Cook being ATG makes the term meaningless
 
bujhee kom said:
You will simply state x attack was poor or y track was flat. He has bossed series in India and Aust. That alone elevates him.
Click to expand...

Well why don't you actually try prove me wrong then using facts?

As I said before he's a good player of spin but doesn't play decent pace bowling well - hence only 1 ashes series out of 7 where he has done well.

His occasional good performance against decent attacks usually come in a series where he struggles.
Check this out from a few years back.

https://www.thefulltoss.com/england-cricket-blog/alastair-cook-and-tough-runs/
 
Bump! Cook has 12,000 test runs and has won series in Australia and India. A very likeable character as well.

Why so much hate around?
 
I think time has come for him to call it off particularly after the series against India because he is not the same batsmen any more and also his reflexes seems to have gone.

A great test career nevertheless. An England Batman in many ways. Always makes a comeback and stood up due to willpower and determination.
 
Majestic said:
Bump! Cook has 12,000 test runs and has won series in Australia and India. A very likeable character as well.

Why so much hate around?
Click to expand...

Because English media compares him to the likes of Tendulkar. Cook is possibly the 2nd worst batsman to score 10k+ runs after Mahela Jayawardena.
 
Joseph Gomes said:
Because English media compares him to the likes of Tendulkar. Cook is possibly the 2nd worst batsman to score 10k+ runs after Mahela Jayawardena.
Click to expand...

It's also very likely Tendulkar wouldn't do as well as Cook as an opener in English conditions his average is similar to a 50+ average of a middle order batsmen on slow favourable Asian wickets.
 
Cook averages almost 52 as an opener in Asia and UAE it's likely he would be the best ever opener in Asia had he played most of his cricket here.
Opening in England SA New Zealand in seaming swinging conditions hasn't helped his average and it's unlikely Tendulkar Lara Ponting and others could do much better in similar circumstances.
 
Cric1234 said:
It's also very likely Tendulkar wouldn't do as well as Cook as an opener in English conditions his average is similar to a 50+ average of a middle order batsmen on slow favourable Asian wickets.
Click to expand...

In England, he averages 54.31 with 4 centuries.
 
Cook is a naturally opening batsmen. He was good in seeing of new ball and had the temperament to survive long. SRT wasn't a test opener by nature. He suited the best at 4.

A player should be judged on what they did over the years in their career not on what they could have done. So, these ifs and buts dont go along well.

Cook is an excellent test batsmen but feel a 45 average is doing justice to the callibre of a player he was.

Among the contemporaries, I put YK, KP, Amla, ABD and Clarke ahead of him.
 
Cric1234 said:
That's as a middle order batsman not an opener had he played as many matches as Cook as an opener in England it's unlikely he could do a lot better.
Click to expand...

Same could be said about Viv Richards. He averages 64.28 in England. Maybe he would have averaged 40 in England if he opened the innings.
 
You can add 5 runs to Cook's average for being an opener, sinceopeners can't boost average with not outs. But not more than that. Cook's RPI is still lower than Tendulkar. And the English conditions are terrible excuse, Cook grew up in England and batred his entire life playing in English conditions. Cook not having a good average in England is a failure.

Great batsman but not ATG in anyway. Far too many failures, a career is much more than just a handful of memorable innings. Consistency is the biggest requirement for ATGs.
 
If you are not ranked #1 in your entire career in any format for a single day, you don't deserve to be an ATG.
 
Hitman said:
Same could be said about Viv Richards. He averages 64.28 in England. Maybe he would have averaged 40 in England if he opened the innings.
Click to expand...

Viv is a different era not as easy to compare Sehwag and Hayden in recent times didn't do well in England Smith did but his average is 41 in SA another tricky place for opening batsmen.
 
Great batsman but not an ATG. There has been a clear difference in quality between Cook and the likes of Amla, Sangakkara and Khan.

He's more comparable to de Villiers, KP and Clarke.
 
Nowhere near especially with his current slump he might end up avging below 45 in this era of batsmen
 
153 straight tests. Thats a staggering achievement. Speaks volumes about this guys consistency and fitness.
 
Joseph Gomes said:
He has done nothing in LOIs. Wouldn't even get chance in England C team now
Click to expand...

I don’t disagree with you on this, but the quality of his ODI output is not what we are discussing here - we are discussing longevity.

You replied to a post about his longevity, saying 153 Tests was less impressive given that he only plays one format, however I pointed out that he hasn’t always played one format i.e. he played LOIs for a long time.

(On closer inspection, he played LOIs from 2006-2014, so given that he has played Tests from 2006 onwards, 8 of his 14 consecutive Test-playing years have been multi-formatted.)

So, on that basis, do we need to re-examine your assertion that playing 153 consecutive Tests is less impressive because Alistair Cook only plays one format?
 
James said:
I don’t disagree with you on this, but the quality of his ODI output is not what we are discussing here - we are discussing longevity.

You replied to a post about his longevity, saying 153 Tests was less impressive given that he only plays one format, however I pointed out that he hasn’t always played one format i.e. he played LOIs for a long time.

(On closer inspection, he played LOIs from 2006-2014, so given that he has played Tests from 2006 onwards, 8 of his 14 consecutive Test-playing years have been multi-formatted.)

So, on that basis, do we need to re-examine your assertion that playing 153 consecutive Tests is less impressive because Alistair Cook only plays one format?
Click to expand...

Cook has played 90 ODIs in 8 years, which is a pretty low volume. Here are the players with most matches from 2006-2014. Cook is not in top 30. He's not even in top 5 for England.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...6;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

Not saying it's not an achievement, but it's not impressive considering his workload. Other players play far more cricket, and travel as well.
 
Good player at times has been world class but not ATG. Most of these english players will break wickets and runs records due to the sheer volume of cricket they play.
 
He is still world-class IMO, played an outstanding innings at Lord’s amongst a disastrous England batting card.
 
A boring but effective accumulator.

Definitely England's best test batsmen in the modern era alongside KP.

KP is better when considering all formats though.
 
WOW the standards sure have fallen low, posters above are actually serious?
 
Yes how could a cricketer who has played 154 consecutive Tests, scored 32 centuries, and has accumulated 12000+ runs at an average of 46 as an opener, possibly be rated? Throw him on the scrap heap.
 
No, not an ATG because ATG status in my view is not only about the runs.

However, he is a modern great.

As an opener, I would rate him below Smith and Sehwag and above Hayden.

As an overall batsman, he is well better than the likes of Sangakkara and Kallis and marginally ahead of Amla.

He is also better than Kohli at this stage, though there is enough to suggest Kohli is on his way to punching his way through the ATG ranks in the future.
 
pillionrider said:
No, not an ATG because ATG status in my view is not only about the runs.

However, he is a modern great.

As an opener, I would rate him below Smith and Sehwag and above Hayden.

As an overall batsman, he is well better than the likes of Sangakkara and Kallis and marginally ahead of Amla.

He is also better than Kohli at this stage, though there is enough to suggest Kohli is on his way to punching his way through the ATG ranks in the future.
Click to expand...

Cook > Kallis, Amla and Sanga? Truly one of the most ridiculous things I've read this week. The cherry on the cake is the implication than Sehwag > Kallis, Amla and Sanga as well.

Let's totally ignore away records.
 
Amla is unnecessarily overrated by [MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION]. Can you explain how he is an ATG? I know you didnt mention here but you do consider him one.

He doesn't possess longevity and neither does he has any great batting average. He has done well against some very good bowlers but none were all-time greats and neither was any attack an all-time great quality one.
 
For me, Cook is an all time great. Just look at his stats. With those stats how can you not consider him an all time great.
 
He is one of the greatest openers in history, Indians always will try and belittle him because they are afraid he will break Sachins record. Don't worry little fellas, that record is safe; don't let it get in the way of appreciating what a great opener Cook is.
 
shaz619 said:
He is one of the greatest openers in history, Indians always will try and belittle him because they are afraid he will break Sachins record. Don't worry little fellas, that record is safe; don't let it get in the way of appreciating what a great opener Cook is.
Click to expand...

That is the raw truth. They are so insecure.
SRT wasn't even the top test bat of his era - Lara was. Lara dominated attacks and has impact records not just longevity based ones. If SRT loses the runs record his groupies have lost half of their song sheet. Cook is an ATG opener.
 
PakWarrior said:
For me, Cook is an all time great. Just look at his stats. With those stats how can you not consider him an all time great.
Click to expand...

That's the whole point. His stats are good but nowhere near ATG. He averages 45 in an era where there are so many batsman who average over 50. 45 is not good enough to be ATG, especially when it includes cashing in against weaker attacks and in most cases failing against decent pace attacks.

If he was Pakistani he would have only had the chance to play half the tests and would have 6000 runs.
 
James said:
Yes how could a cricketer who has played 154 consecutive Tests, scored 32 centuries, and has accumulated 12000+ runs at an average of 46 as an opener, possibly be rated? Throw him on the scrap heap.
Click to expand...

You can add 5+ points to his average when comparing to middle order batsmen from the sub continent he's done very well most openers in England have fallen by the wayside playing 200 tests will definitely have more value than Sachins 200.
 
CricketTruth said:
That's the whole point. His stats are good but nowhere near ATG. He averages 45 in an era where there are so many batsman who average over 50. 45 is not good enough to be ATG, especially when it includes cashing in against weaker attacks and in most cases failing against decent pace attacks.

If he was Pakistani he would have only had the chance to play half the tests and would have 6000 runs.
Click to expand...

I disagree on all counts. We are unnecessarily getting technical on his stats for stats sake.

I consider him an all time great. This is just my opinion and I respect yours.
 
James said:
Yes how could a cricketer who has played 154 consecutive Tests, scored 32 centuries, and has accumulated 12000+ runs at an average of 46 as an opener, possibly be rated? Throw him on the scrap heap.
Click to expand...

He is decent. Wouldnt want him there batting if we need to get a move on and win the test. Solid defensive batsman though.
 
Bilal7 said:
Great batsman but not an ATG. There has been a clear difference in quality between Cook and the likes of Amla, Sangakkara and Khan.

He's more comparable to de Villiers, KP and Clarke.
Click to expand...

Khan, Sanga, Amla, KP , AB, Clarke all fall into the same category. Cook is in a category little lower than them.
 
Cric1234 said:
You can add 5+ points to his average when comparing to middle order batsmen from the sub continent he's done very well most openers in England have fallen by the wayside playing 200 tests will definitely have more value than Sachins 200.
Click to expand...

Don't agree at all. By the same logic you can add 5 points to Jimmy Anderson's bowling average making him a mediocre bowler.
 
He is in the top 10 greatest openers of all time; that definitely makes him an all-time great.

Those who think he is lucky because England play a lot of Tests should note the struggles of the other English openers since the retirement of Strauss, and how some of the English players like Swann, Trott and Prior etc. have suffered due to fatigue.

He is the most prolific non-Asian batsman in Asia, and he has scored runs in every country, including Man of the Series Awards in Australia and India, something very few players can boast about.

One of the great of the games by any measure. He has a weakness against top quality pace, but if you micro-analyze, you will find holes in every career.

Lara is considered one of greatest players of spin ever, but he was rubbish in India, and there are other examples.

He hasn’t been consistent over the last few years, but regardless of how his career ends, his legacy is already established.

Unfortunately, he is the last of his kind because of Test cricket’s bleak future. No player will play 150+ Tests, let alone consecutively.
 
Last edited:
I personally rate Cook highly, no matter what people say, for me he will always be a tough wall that has yet to be broken. And an English great.
 
Mamoon said:
He is in the top 10 greatest openers of all time; that definitely makes him an all-time great.

Those who think he is lucky because England play a lot of Tests should note the struggles of the other English openers since the retirement of Strauss, and how some of the English players like Swann, Trott and Prior etc. have suffered due to fatigue.

He is the most prolific non-Asian batsman in Asia, and he has scored runs in every country, including Man of the Series Awards in Australia and India, something very few players can boast about.

One of the great of the games by any measure. He has a weakness against top quality pace, but if you micro-analyze, you will find holes in every career.

Lara is considered one of greatest players of spin ever, but he was rubbish in India, and there are other examples.

He hasn’t been consistent over the last few years, but regardless of how his career ends, his legacy is already established.

Unfortunately, he is the last of his kind because of Test cricket’s bleak future. No player will play 150+ Tests, let alone consecutively.
Click to expand...

Do you also consider Amla an ATG? He was a top order batsmen as well and has better avg and SR.
 
CadPakFan said:
I personally rate Cook highly, no matter what people say, for me he will always be a tough wall that has yet to be broken. And an English great.
Click to expand...

Everyone considers him an England great. Nobody can deny that but I feel he needs to do a bit more for ATG status in tests. His failures in limited overs doesn't help either although English fans didnt really cared that much but it goes against him.
 
No. He isn’t close to being a great of the game, let alone ATG. He is an England great for they have been rubbish for the most part. He is rather too defensive and puts pressure on the rest of the line up
 
Last edited:
Well - he's about to retire, so no better time to reignite the debate. Added a poll, get your votes in!
 
Fantastic cricketer. Gets my respect and he is an inspiration for many of us.

ATG?? No, falls well short IMO. Being unsuccessful in ODIs doesn't help either.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

S
Grading the all-time great Test batters: A Tier-Based System
Replies
2
Views
115
Hikaru
Hikaru
N
Why Steve Smith is still the undisputed second greatest Test batter of all time?
2 3 4
Replies
258
Views
4K
BouncerGuy
BouncerGuy
M
How Important is Saud Shakeel for Pakistan against South Africa? 🏏
Replies
2
Views
118
TheSultan
T
Buffet
All time great away series for pacers against top sides
Replies
69
Views
2K
aboveandbeyond
A
mominsaigol
Are Yashasvi Jaiswal and Rishabh Pant the next hype machines for India?
2 3 4
Replies
285
Views
10K
DTrump
D
Back
Top