Is India the most unsafe place for tourists in the world? The gang rape of a Brazilian tourist in state of Jharkhand has led to widespread outrage

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

I remember you saying that prostitution was considered a good thing in the dharmic system and a service to society. This is in stark contrast to the Islamic and Victorian systems mentioned in this thread.

Do you think under Modis tenure we will see an increase in this service to society?

Just a fact here, Prostitution is legal in India. You cannot solicit or advertise the sexual services in public, which are criminal acts. Same criminal tag applies to pimping and organized setups for Prostitutions like Brothels.

If we are going to religious angle, Lets be very clear on the validation and justification sexual slavery in Islam.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I'm not sure where or where not it is legal just wondering if steering the country back to it's dharmic roots via prostitution will help reduce sexual crimes.

You yourself have acknowledged it was thought to reduce crimes in ancient times. Will it be tried again?

Prostitution per say isn't illegal in India.

And what has Dharma got to do here?

Before taking shots at another religion think about your own.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

The religious angle has already been taken previously in the thread regarding purdah and turks. I am not sure you both think I am having a pop when I am just looking at the other side of the coin.

The sexual repression has been attributed to two invading philosophies that have removed the traditional culture ( I have called it dharmic because its what you guys call in other threads) which was sexually liberal and allowed/encouraged prostitution which was felt to reduce sexual crimes.

Now we have a political party in power that is focused on removing aspects of what it sees as invading culture and restoring traditional culture.

It is a simple question that got you both unnecessarily riled up and making my questions seem bigoted.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Just a fact here, Prostitution is legal in India. You cannot solicit or advertise the sexual services in public, which are criminal acts. Same criminal tag applies to pimping and organized setups for Prostitutions like Brothels.

If we are going to religious angle, Lets be very clear on the validation and justification sexual slavery in Islam.

If there was a thread on lets say the sexual abuse of domestic workers in Muslim countries then the bolded would be a reasonable topic of discussion.

Have a read through this thread yourself - this is the line of debate

Centuries ago, sex was not a taboo. With the Turkish conquests, the morality seems to have massively tilted towards conservatism.

Its not due to Turkish rule alone. Of course there will be other factors. The transition of India from a open society to conservative one coincides with the Turkic rule.

Its not Mughals fault. That would be stupid. But the purdah system where women are hidden from man's sight is a product of Mughal rule. There can be several reasons for the rape including drinking, p0rn, drugs etc. Patriarchy adds fuel to the fire where women are treated inferior.


Why not?
Mughals captured women and made them sex slaves, subjecting them to rape.


This is true only to a certain extent. A very open Indian society where sex was not seen as a taboo but as an essential part of life, both for procreation and enjoyment changed into a purdah system post Islamic rule.

But that's only partially responsible for the conservative society we live in. Don't forget we were ruled by a Victorian colonial power who were no less.

And what stopped India from going back to its roots and not make sex a taboo. The society needs reform.

I'm genuinely perplexed about where my comments about going back to roots entail, and keeping up this line of debate has been portrayed as taking a " religious" angle. Its you lot that say India was different before the invasions. its you lot that call this mythical ancient India as Dharmic and its you lot that say openness and prostitution is an anthithesis to sexual violence. Yet when I ask when you are going to return to these days of openness you get annoyed.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

The religious angle has already been taken previously in the thread regarding purdah and turks. I am not sure you both think I am having a pop when I am just looking at the other side of the coin.

The sexual repression has been attributed to two invading philosophies that have removed the traditional culture ( I have called it dharmic because its what you guys call in other threads) which was sexually liberal and allowed/encouraged prostitution which was felt to reduce sexual crimes.

Now we have a political party in power that is focused on removing aspects of what it sees as invading culture and restoring traditional culture.

It is a simple question that got you both unnecessarily riled up and making my questions seem bigoted.

Haven't gone through the old posts in the thread! But felt the post was directed at an unnecessary angle.
Sexual repression has been worse in Islamic set ups, that doesn't mean other cultures have been any shining examples ever.
With regards to sexual violence, between different cultures, no matter what culture you pick, it will be pot calling the kettle black.

If we look at the objective stats and studies. Legalization of prostitution and removal of stigma of sex work does reduce sexual violence in general. Removal of social stigma is the more critical aspect here.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Haven't gone through the old posts in the thread! But felt the post was directed at an unnecessary angle.
Sexual repression has been worse in Islamic set ups, that doesn't mean other cultures have been any shining examples ever.
With regards to sexual violence, between different cultures, no matter what culture you pick, it will be pot calling the kettle black.

If we look at the objective stats and studies. Legalization of prostitution and removal of stigma of sex work does reduce sexual violence in general. Removal of social stigma is the more critical aspect here.

How is an unnecessary angle? The thread topic is India and the sentiment from Indians seems to be historic India was fine before it was polluted with the philosophies of the invaders.

If you think it works and that the Islamic and Victorian system were worse why doesn't the ruling party bring back this part of the traditional culture?

There is no angle to this it's a straight forward question.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

How is an unnecessary angle? The thread topic is India and the sentiment from Indians seems to be historic India was fine before it was polluted with the philosophies of the invaders.

If you think it works and that the Islamic and Victorian system were worse why doesn't the ruling party bring back this part of the traditional culture?

There is no angle to this it's a straight forward question.

Here, Just because something was better in the past doesnt mean that's something to aspire to in modern context. We have better systems that we can aim to be. Your wording has a certain fixation of misdirecting the discussion.

Its a basic "straw man" fallacy latching onto time and time again.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Here, Just because something was better in the past doesnt mean that's something to aspire to in modern context. We have better systems that we can aim to be. Your wording has a certain fixation of misdirecting the discussion.

Its a basic "straw man" fallacy latching onto time and time again.

Show me where the straw man is and where the inappropriate wording is?

Come on. Step up to the plate instead of hiding behind throwing accusations. What is wrong in my question ? First it was anti religion now it is a straw man.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

Show me where the straw man is and where the inappropriate wording is?

Come on. Step up to the plate instead of hiding behind throwing accusations. What is wrong in my question ? First it was anti religion now it is a straw man.

I responded in similar vein which your post #80 is and it got instantly delete brother. I had just flipped the religions and the culture.
I think i will avoid the conversation, it will just get me banned.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I responded in similar vein which your post #80 is and it got instantly delete brother. I had just flipped the religions and the culture.
I think i will avoid the conversation, it will just get me banned.

Why would you respond in a similar vein but flip the religion? The thread topic is India, and the sentiment amongst some Indians is that sexual violence is a result of invading philosophies.


Once again here is the thread trajectory

1 - Rape in India
2 - Partly attributed to Mughals and Victorian cultures of sexual repression.
3 - Claim that traditional culture doesn't have these elements of repression.
4 - Question asking whether a return to traditional ( I called it Dharmic) culture is now on the cards and do you think elements of it particularly around sexual liberation would help.

What contribution would flipping the religions for some weird reason make to this discussion? Your side has already put forward the theory that sexual violence in India can be attributed to the Islamic faith. What exactly are you flipping the cultures around for? Stick to the topic and tell me where my post is a straw man. - "And what stopped India from going back to its roots and not make sex a taboo. The society needs reform."

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Indian society is a strong word to be used.

Some sick kids did it and they should be treated as adults. They cannot pretend like 7th graders and feign innocence in court. They did one of the worst crimes ever and they should serve in prison for the rest of their lives.

What is the legal age a person can be considered an adult in India?

 

[BouncerGuy]

Mystery surrounds US woman found starving and chained to tree in India

Mystery surrounds an American woman who was found chained to a tree "screaming" in a forest in the western Indian state of Maharashtra.

Lalita Kayi, 50, was discovered a week ago in the dense forests of Sindhudurg district after her cries for help were heard by shepherds. They alerted the police who sawed off the chain and rescued her.

Ms Kayi, who appeared completely emaciated, was taken to hospital. Her physical health has since improved and, on Friday, she was moved to a psychiatric facility for further treatment, doctors treating her told the BBC.

In a written statement to the police, she has alleged that her husband "chained her and left her in the forest to die without food or water".

Police say they are looking for her husband in the southern state of Tamil Nadu on the basis of information she provided them.

But seven days after Ms Kayi was rescued, there is still no clarity on who she is, how she came to be in the forest, who tied her to the tree, and why.

Pandurang Gawkar, a cow herder who found her last Saturday, told BBC Marathi that he had taken his cattle to graze in the forest when he heard "a woman screaming loudly".

"The sound was coming from the forest on the side of the mountain. When I went there, I saw that one of her legs was tied to a tree. She was screaming like an animal. I called other villagers and the local police."

Police said that on her they found a copy of her passport, which stated that she was an American citizen, and her Aadhaar card - a unique ID for Indians - with her home address in Tamil Nadu.

They said she also had a mobile phone, a tablet and 31,000 rupees ($370; £290) in her possession - which allowed them to rule out theft as a motive.

Locals say that it was the woman's good fortune that the shepherd picked a spot near her to graze his flock that day. The forest she was discovered in is vast and she otherwise could have gone for days without anyone hearing her cries for help.

Police initially took her to a local hospital before moving her to a hospital in the neighbouring state of Goa.

Dr Shivanand Bandekar, dean of Goa Medical College, told The Indian Express newspaper that she had some wounds on her leg and that she appeared to be suffering from a mental health condition.

"We do not know for how long she did not eat, but her vital signs are stable," Dr Bandekar said.

On Friday, the woman's physical health had improved enough to be moved to a psychiatric hospital in Ratnagiri district of Maharashtra state.

"Currently, her health is stable," hospital superintendent Dr Sanghamitra Phule told BBC Marathi.

"She is taking medication, eating, and interacting with people. If she wants something, she can communicate it. She only knows English."

According to the police, Ms Kayi was a ballet dancer and yoga practitioner in America - some reports say specifically Massachusetts - and moved to India about 10 years ago to study yoga and meditation in Tamil Nadu.

It was there that she met her husband - in some media reports, police have called him Satish. Police say they believe at some point she fell out with her husband.

Some reports say that she stayed in a hotel in Goa for two days and then travelled to Mumbai city, India's financial capital.

But there is no clarity surrounding when or how she then ended up in the forest where she was discovered last week.

Ms Kayi, who was initially unable to speak, communicated with the police and doctors by scribbling notes on a pad. Through them she blamed her husband for tying her to the tree and claimed that she had gone without food and water for 40 days.

She also claimed that she had been given an "injection for extreme psychosis" which locked her jaw and prevented her from drinking water, and that she had to be provided nutrition intravenously.

"I am a victim and survived. But he ran away from here," she alleged.

Police say they have been unable to verify these claims and believe it is unlikely that someone would survive without food or water for so long.

They have registered a case of attempted murder against her husband and have dispatched teams to Tamil Nadu, Goa and Maharashtra to investigate the matter further. Her husband is yet to be traced by the police and hasn't made any statements to the media.

Police say they are also looking for clues in the mobile phone and the tablet they found on the woman.

The US embassy in Delhi - which media reports say has been "exerting pressure on the police to speed up the investigation" - has refused to comment on the case.

A spokesperson told the BBC that it could not respond to inquiries "due to the US Privacy Act", which governs the dissemination of private information.

BBC

 

[Hikaru]

I responded in similar vein which your post #80 is and it got instantly delete brother. I had just flipped the religions and the culture.
I think i will avoid the conversation, it will just get me banned.

Good call on avoiding the conversation. As for the topic, it's sad but people need to realise India isn't a country with half a dozen yearly tourists, there's 10 million of them annually. Indians face crime abroad and foreigners are likely to face crime in India too.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Another unfortunate rape incident but this time with a local doctor
====

Kolkata doctor’s murder: Civic police volunteer of Kolkata Police arrested​

Under criticism from several quarters on the law and order situation in the State, Chief Minister Mamata Banerjee on Saturday (August 10, 2024) said that she has no hesitation in handing over the probe to an independent agency if the family so demands.

Speaking to a Bengali television news channel ABP Ananda, the Chief Minister said she will hand over the probe to another agency if family so desires. Ms. Banerjee also added that the case should be tried by a fast track court.

A 31-year-old lady doctor was found dead at R. G. Kar Medical College and Hospital on Friday morning (August 9, 2024). The doctor, a post graduate trainee was on the night shift and had retired to a seminar room of the health facility at about 2 a.m.

Commissioner of Kolkata Police Vineet Kumar Goyal said there are signs of sexual assault on the body of the victim. “Case has been started under charges of rape and murder,” Mr. Goyal said. “If there are any demands from the family that the probe be handed over to an independent agency, we have no problem,” the Commissioner said, adding that the Kolkata Police was conducting investigation in a transparent manner.

“The investigation was carried out through-out the night, we have found several evidences and on the basis of these evidences, we have arrested one person,” he said

When asked about the accused being associated with the Kolkata Police as a civic police volunteer, Mr. Goyal said, “For us he is a criminal of the highest order and which deserves highest punishment”.

He added that CCTV cameras in the hospital has confirmed his presence at the hospital and accused had no business of being at the scene of the crime at such an odd hour. The family members of the deceased doctor had said that hospital was unable to provide security to their daughter. The father of the doctor alleged that initially the administration tried to hush up the incident but later under pressure of protesting doctors, the police has arrested one person.

According to police sources, the accused Sanjay Roy was seen in a CCTV footage near the seminar hall of the third floor of the hospital building. A wireless headphone which the accused was wearing was found near the body which the accused was seen wearing in the CCTV camera.

BJP State president Sukanta Majumdar said that administration is trying to hush up the incident and the party workers are protesting to ensure that probe is handed over to an independent agency.

Source: The Hindu

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Another unfortunate rape incident but this time with a local doctor
====

Kolkata doctor’s murder: Civic police volunteer of Kolkata Police arrested​

Under criticism from several quarters on the law and order situation in the State, Chief Minister Mamata Banerjee on Saturday (August 10, 2024) said that she has no hesitation in handing over the probe to an independent agency if the family so demands.

Speaking to a Bengali television news channel ABP Ananda, the Chief Minister said she will hand over the probe to another agency if family so desires. Ms. Banerjee also added that the case should be tried by a fast track court.

A 31-year-old lady doctor was found dead at R. G. Kar Medical College and Hospital on Friday morning (August 9, 2024). The doctor, a post graduate trainee was on the night shift and had retired to a seminar room of the health facility at about 2 a.m.

Commissioner of Kolkata Police Vineet Kumar Goyal said there are signs of sexual assault on the body of the victim. “Case has been started under charges of rape and murder,” Mr. Goyal said. “If there are any demands from the family that the probe be handed over to an independent agency, we have no problem,” the Commissioner said, adding that the Kolkata Police was conducting investigation in a transparent manner.

“The investigation was carried out through-out the night, we have found several evidences and on the basis of these evidences, we have arrested one person,” he said

When asked about the accused being associated with the Kolkata Police as a civic police volunteer, Mr. Goyal said, “For us he is a criminal of the highest order and which deserves highest punishment”.

He added that CCTV cameras in the hospital has confirmed his presence at the hospital and accused had no business of being at the scene of the crime at such an odd hour. The family members of the deceased doctor had said that hospital was unable to provide security to their daughter. The father of the doctor alleged that initially the administration tried to hush up the incident but later under pressure of protesting doctors, the police has arrested one person.

According to police sources, the accused Sanjay Roy was seen in a CCTV footage near the seminar hall of the third floor of the hospital building. A wireless headphone which the accused was wearing was found near the body which the accused was seen wearing in the CCTV camera.

BJP State president Sukanta Majumdar said that administration is trying to hush up the incident and the party workers are protesting to ensure that probe is handed over to an independent agency.

Source: The Hindu

Several BJP workers held a protest march in Kolkata over the rape and murder of the trainee doctor at the RG Kar Medical College and Hospital on Wednesday

The workers demanded justice for the doctor and her family members and also demanded extreme punishment for the accused.

The march began from College Square in the city and ended at the RG Kar Medical College and Hospital.

Source: IndiaToday

 

[oatmeal]

The police flubbed the case because the accused was working for them in a contractual post and tried to cover it up by cremating her body so fast, what was the need to cremate so quickly. And initially they told the parents it was suicide. I am usually not in favour of giving everything to the CBI but in this case it was needed because the state police lost the confidence due to their actions

Then the state government massively misstepped by assigning the principal who resigned to another college immediately. what was the hurry.

The accused should get the maximum punishment possible