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Is it fair to call Joe Root a "Home Track Bully"?

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SLcric123

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He has played 80 tests till now and has got over 6500 runs at an average just under 50 with 15 hundreds.

However, over 38 tests, he has just 4 hundreds away from home. His contemporaries, in comparison, have below number of hundreds away from home: -

Virat Kohli 14 in 42 tests
Steven Smith 10 in 35 tests
Kane Williamson 11 in 38 tests

He still averages a decent 42 away from England and Wales but hasn't been able to make any major impact in India, Australia, UAE and New Zealand.

Discuss!
 
Series defining performances in South Africa negate the assumption he is a home track bully.
 
SLcric123 said:
He has played 80 tests till now and has got over 6500 runs at an average just under 50 with 15 hundreds.

However, over 38 tests, he has just 4 hundreds away from home. His contemporaries, in comparison, have below number of hundreds away from home: -

Virat Kohli 14 in 42 tests
Steven Smith 10 in 35 tests
Kane Williamson 11 in 38 tests

He still averages a decent 42 away from England and Wales but hasn't been able to make any major impact in India, Australia, UAE and New Zealand.

Discuss!
Click to expand...

Averaging 42 away is decent.
So no, he isn't a home track bully
 
You only become HTB if your away average is < 40. England has inconsistent batting anyway so his centuries wouldn't have much impact either unless whole team clicks (as it did against the mediocre SL).
 
He's one of the best batsmen in the world, so of course he can't be a HTB but yes, his batting has dropped since assuming the captaincy and England can't afford to lose their best player because of the captaincy. Would like to see someone else replace Root as captain but I doubt the ECB will do so in a massive year for English cricket. I think Root's form will decide how long he keeps the Test captaincy.
 
barah_admi said:
Series defining performances in South Africa negate the assumption he is a home track bully.
Click to expand...

If Kohli had scored a grand total of 4 hundreds away from home you won't stop complaining about it. But can't expect anything better than you.
 
He is a good batsman. May be his peak is over. Used to be extremely consistent. His conversion is a problem even in England. A must for English side inspite of his form given the pathetic top order.
 
Not at all, he is an all-condition player. His issue is lapse of concentration or mental strength. He scores a breezy 50,looks great but then a sudden lapse of focus and he throws his wicket.

He hasn't done anything of note in Australia but still averages a very fine 38 there. So, he keeps getting starts but fails to convert big. That's his only issue.

Definitely an England great in all formats of the game and no reasons to dis-qualify him from from the fab four if you keep Kohli, Smith and Williamson in it.
 
Rahul1 said:
If Kohli had scored a grand total of 4 hundreds away from home you won't stop complaining about it. But can't expect anything better than you.
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You always make a lot of claims you never back up.
 
Ab Fan said:
Not at all, he is an all-condition player. His issue is lapse of concentration or mental strength. He scores a breezy 50,looks great but then a sudden lapse of focus and he throws his wicket.

He hasn't done anything of note in Australia but still averages a very fine 38 there. So, he keeps getting starts but fails to convert big. That's his only issue.

Definitely an England great in all formats of the game and no reasons to dis-qualify him from from the fab four if you keep Kohli, Smith and Williamson in it.
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I think more so than lack of concentration, it may be the back condition he suffers from which is holding him back.
 
Hmm, I would call Trescothick a HTB (50 average in England, 35 away) but not Root.
 
barah_admi said:
I think more so than lack of concentration, it may be the back condition he suffers from which is holding him back.
Click to expand...

Don't think so. He has this issue of lapse of concentration which is why he bats so brilliantly for his 70 but throws his wickets eventually. England playing lots of tests doesn't help either.

An England great but won't call him ATG unless he starts dominating again.
 
Ab Fan said:
Don't think so. He has this issue of lapse of concentration which is why he bats so brilliantly for his 70 but throws his wickets eventually. England playing lots of tests doesn't help either.

An England great but won't call him ATG unless he starts dominating again.
Click to expand...

What don't you think? He has a back conditions which requires him to often use painkillers during a test match. It is just a fact.
 
SLcric123 said:
He has played 80 tests till now and has got over 6500 runs at an average just under 50 with 15 hundreds.

However, over 38 tests, he has just 4 hundreds away from home. His contemporaries, in comparison, have below number of hundreds away from home: -

Virat Kohli 14 in 42 tests
Steven Smith 10 in 35 tests
Kane Williamson 11 in 38 tests

He still averages a decent 42 away from England and Wales but hasn't been able to make any major impact in India, Australia, UAE and New Zealand.

Discuss!
Click to expand...

Please mention their averages too for a fairer comparison?

People are jumping on Root for his low scores in the Windies but some of the balls he faced were unplayable, Kohli, Smith or even Bradman would have been cleaned up by them. Cricket is not a simple game of numbers.
 
Not an HTB, but not good enough away from home to be even close to an ATG when he retires.

Going by country, he averages 38 in Australia, 25 in Bangladesh, 26 in NZ, and 38 in SL. He does have a very good record in India, SA, and the UAE though.
 
KingKhanWC said:
Please mention their averages too for a fairer comparison?

People are jumping on Root for his low scores in the Windies but some of the balls he faced were unplayable, Kohli, Smith or even Bradman would have been cleaned up by them. Cricket is not a simple game of numbers.
Click to expand...

2 of his dismissals this series were to great deliveries, but there is no such thing as a ball that would get any batsman in the world out.
 
Sachin136 said:
2 of his dismissals this series were to great deliveries, but there is no such thing as a ball that would get any batsman in the world out.
Click to expand...

Let me guesss Kohli would have slapped them for four? :sachin

They were unplayble, every commie said the same so please explain in detail how he could have played those two deliveries in a better way?
 
Robert said:
Hmm, I would call Trescothick a HTB (50 average in England, 35 away) but not Root.
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Definitely not HTB. Sure he looked like a deer caught in the headlights against Mitch Johnson in that one series. Overall he has played well everywhere. When batsman goes through a slump technique helps them get back. LEt us see how he comes back. After Ausstralian series his average has come from 53.28 to 48.97. That is a 5 point dip. Players peak at 30. So age is on his side. He can come back strong. All good batsmen go through a slump
 
Not an HTB. He still averages well in two of the toughest countries to play in in India and South Africa. He is going through a real tough time with the bat but not a HTB.
 
Seems harsh to call him that. You don't average 42 away from home, make a big impact in South Africa and also be considered one of the best batsmen in the world and be a HTB.

I think the captaincy needs to be given to someone else, Root won't admit that he should resign from that position but we all know that it's not helped anything. He should focus on purely getting into form with the bat.
 
His away record is not relevant to call him HTB. You can be decent, good or great away and yet be called a HTB. You could be HTB and ATB as well.

His record is not great enough to at home to be called HTB. He is not a bully in any conditions.
 
I was in the stadium when Joe Root scored 254 runs against Pakistan. He ist by far the best English player.
 
Karl said:
I was in the stadium when Joe Root scored 254 runs against Pakistan. He ist by far the best English player.
Click to expand...

That was at home on a flat Old Trafford pitch and England piled on nearly 600 runs! Hence the term 'Home track bully'.

Nope, not the best batsman since he's been made captain. The following tour of England, Pakistan won the first test and England was in a precarious position in the second test, 4 or 5 down till Buttler made 80no and England made 363.

This is simply tests alone, take the limited overs and Root doesn't even deserve a slot in the side.
 
shortbread said:
That was at home on a flat Old Trafford pitch and England piled on nearly 600 runs! Hence the term 'Home track bully'.

Nope, not the best batsman since he's been made captain. The following tour of England, Pakistan won the first test and England was in a precarious position in the second test, 4 or 5 down till Buttler made 80no and England made 363.

This is simply tests alone, take the limited overs and Root doesn't even deserve a slot in the side.
Click to expand...

Mate he scored 2 consecutive hundreds against Ind. He more than deserves his spot in LOI
 
Ab Fan said:
What do you think should be England batting lineup going ahead?
Click to expand...

The openers are the problem. Burns looks halfway ok but Jennings must be dropped. Dunno who to include - maybe Roy. Bairstow is a good ODI opener but I would drop him from the test side. He gets bowled too often to bat up the order and is not the best keeper.

Denly has done enough to be picked against Ireland, but I might bring back Bell. He was dropped far too early.

I would take the captaincy off Root as we desperately need his run power back, and give it to the quietly impressive Buttler.

Stokes six, Foakes seven and Moeen eight, though I would promote Moeen under some circumstances.
 
Robert said:
The openers are the problem. Burns looks halfway ok but Jennings must be dropped. Dunno who to include - maybe Roy. Bairstow is a good ODI opener but I would drop him from the test side. He gets bowled too often to bat up the order and is not the best keeper.

Denly has done enough to be picked against Ireland, but I might bring back Bell. He was dropped far too early.

I would take the captaincy off Root as we desperately need his run power back, and give it to the quietly impressive Buttler.

Stokes six, Foakes seven and Moeen eight, though I would promote Moeen under some circumstances.
Click to expand...

So, no Bairstow, Root at 4 and Buttler at 5?
 
Robert said:
Certainly not this day.
Click to expand...

Haroon786 said:
Wouldn't be so sure right now, eh? :kp
Click to expand...

Against a depleted West Indies attack when the team is in a strong position. The fighting 50s from Stokes and Buttler were the more valuable innings.

Root fans can clutch straws and go waxlyrical over these far few in between innings. He's no more a game changer like Williamson or Kohli.

Root needs to be relieved of captaincy in order for him to get back to his batting best. Or we'll see a one half decent knock every series in order to quench the thirst for die hard fans while the team loses another away series.
 
shortbread said:
Against a depleted West Indies attack when the team is in a strong position. The fighting 50s from Stokes and Buttler were the more valuable innings.

Root fans can clutch straws and go waxlyrical over these far few in between innings. He's no more a game changer like Williamson or Kohli.

Root needs to be relieved of captaincy in order for him to get back to his batting best. Or we'll see a one half decent knock every series in order to quench the thirst for die hard fans while the team loses another away series.
Click to expand...

Hmm, so fifties are better than centuries? 120 away is “half-decent”? A bloke averaging 50 isn’t as good as a bloke averaging below 40?
 
Robert said:
Hmm, so fifties are better than centuries? 120 away is “half-decent”? A bloke averaging 50 isn’t as good as a bloke averaging below 40?
Click to expand...

Depends on when and where it was scored. England won the 3rd test by 230 runs odd, a hundred or a double century makes no difference. Root walked out to bat when England had a good lead, there was no pressure. Root's average has fallen to 40 since captaincy. If this is oblivious to everyone then fine, but this will keep costing the side.

Bravo's 200 ball 50 in the second test is a far more worthwhile innings than the Root century.
 
Definitely not. He is sadly a half-century fiend though, not enough of his innings are converted into tons.
 
shortbread said:
Depends on when and where it was scored. England won the 3rd test by 230 runs odd, a hundred or a double century makes no difference. Root walked out to bat when England had a good lead, there was no pressure. Root's average has fallen to 40 since captaincy. If this is oblivious to everyone then fine, but this will keep costing the side.

Bravo's 200 ball 50 in the second test is a far more worthwhile innings than the Root century.
Click to expand...

But who is the better England batter than Root? Even averaging 40 as skipper he is the best.
 
Ivan not calling Root htb but there is a case you can still average 42 and can be called htb, example Sehwag, average around 45 in 52 test match with 10 hundreds ( Root only 4 in 38) and most people called sehwag Htb
 
shortbread said:
Against a depleted West Indies attack when the team is in a strong position. The fighting 50s from Stokes and Buttler were the more valuable innings.

Root fans can clutch straws and go waxlyrical over these far few in between innings. He's no more a game changer like Williamson or Kohli.

Root needs to be relieved of captaincy in order for him to get back to his batting best. Or we'll see a one half decent knock every series in order to quench the thirst for die hard fans while the team loses another away series.
Click to expand...

Yeah sure his record is probably not anywhere near the likes of Smith and Kohli but he's definitely decent and able to bat well away from home aside from his conversion issues.
 
Terrible away hundred yesterday, scoring at the same rate as Gayle. Never even hit any sixes.
 
Robert said:
Terrible away hundred yesterday, scoring at the same rate as Gayle. Never even hit any sixes.
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Strong Hundred, but what were West Indies doing in the field yesterday? Ashley Nurse these days cant catch a flu even!
 
Rana said:
Strong Hundred, but what were West Indies doing in the field yesterday? Ashley Nurse these days cant catch a flu even!
Click to expand...

England did the basics yesterday, catching better and running between the wickets.
 
Robert said:
Wouldn’t know as {Robert} =/= {English fans}.

There are a lot of JAMODI fans on PP however, and Root has scored a century away.
Click to expand...

Well I remember you , specifically, saying that Jamodis don't matter. Or is that malleable when it comes to English cricketers - depending on whatever format they are actually performing in ? :misbah
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Well I remember you , specifically, saying that Jamodis don't matter. Or is that malleable when it comes to English cricketers - depending on whatever format they are actually performing in ? :misbah
Click to expand...

It's the same on Reddit too. English suddenly love ODIs more than tests lol
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Well I remember you , specifically, saying that Jamodis don't matter. Or is that malleable when it comes to English cricketers - depending on whatever format they are actually performing in ? :misbah
Click to expand...

No. Of course I like to see England win in whatever format but would give up every LO win for more test series victories. I will always hold tests to be the gold standard.

That’s by-the-by, as Root has just scored away centuries in two successive innings.
 
shortbread said:
He's not even the best batsman in the England squad.
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And now? Scored over half the runs in the innings. Head and shoulders above everyone else in an away match. Second double century away.
 
He bullies weak attacks. And kudos to him for that. But just like Cook, he has never negotiated a strong pace attack.
 
Robert said:
And now? Scored over half the runs in the innings. Head and shoulders above everyone else in an away match. Second double century away.
Click to expand...

He has somewhat underachieved after starting with bang ....but he can still catch up
 
As [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] once asked.. Do runs against Sri Lanka count.
This has to be one of the worst bowling attacks around anything less than double for batsmen of Roots class is a failure.
 
Averages 50+ in India, South Africa, UAE (Vs Pak) and West Indies...... 60+ in Sri Lanka.

Close to 40 in Australia and New Zealand.

This shouldn't even be a question. :inti
 
Although I have to say the current SL attack is as bad as they come.

Whatever happened to Akila Dananjaya!
 
hoshiarpurexpress said:
As [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] once asked.. Do runs against Sri Lanka count.
This has to be one of the worst bowling attacks around anything less than double for batsmen of Roots class is a failure.
Click to expand...

This pitch is turning quite alot and he played out tricky deliveries. Was a very good innings
 
Mesozoic said:
Averages 50+ in India, South Africa, UAE (Vs Pak) and West Indies...... 60+ in Sri Lanka.

Close to 40 in Australia and New Zealand.

This shouldn't even be a question. :inti
Click to expand...

The thing is he has played alot of tests on flat pitches.

2016 india tour had roads were 400 and 500 scores were easily made.

2017 ashes in Australia also had very flat pitches.

Root always struggles when there is alot seam and swing movement.
 
He is not a home track bully. The fact he gets to 50 so often shows it is not conditions that phase him.
 
sindhiboy said:
The thing is he has played alot of tests on flat pitches.

2016 india tour had roads were 400 and 500 scores were easily made.

2017 ashes in Australia also had very flat pitches.

Root always struggles when there is alot seam and swing movement.
Click to expand...

Doesn't matter as they still came away from home. Maybe call him a "flat track bully" then I dunno.

And even that would be wrong as the wickets in England, where he plays/has played half of his tests, are not flat by any means.
 
NO.

A very characteristic Joe Root hundred(double) today.
Effortlessly caressing the ball around, easy strike rotation.
 
sindhiboy said:
The thing is he has played alot of tests on flat pitches.

2016 india tour had roads were 400 and 500 scores were easily made.

2017 ashes in Australia also had very flat pitches.

Root always struggles when there is alot seam and swing movement.
Click to expand...

A strange statement, given that he plays half his tests in England on seaming decks against bowlers armed with the Duke ball and averages 50 there.
 
Back to back three 180+ away from home

It seems like root saw this thread before catching the flight to lanka
 
Joe looks like he is beginning to approach the peak of his powers to me. His footwork is beautiful, he’s batting like a dream and he is seeing the nut like a beachball.

30 is the perfect age for him to be coming into his best years.

Hopefully for England’s sake this purple patch lasts long enough for them to find some decent players, who can eventually begin to pick up the mantle when Root begins to lose some form. Joe can’t average 100 forever.
 
Top player. If he played for a subcontinent team, he could have scored 10,000 ODI runs too at average over 50. But he has set test cricket as his priority and has done really well. All- conditions all format batsman.
 
Joe Root is unreal man.

Get Joe. Get England.

But you won't be able to get Joe.

Honestly, the best test batsman in the world on form.

He is on a totally different planet right now lol.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Most runs against India in Test cricket:<br><br>2555 Ponting at an average of 54.36<br>2431 A Cook average of 47.66<br>2344 C Lloyd average of 58.60<br>2228 J Miandad at an average of 67.51<br>2171 S Chanderpaul average of 63.85<br>2049 M Clarke average of 53.92<br>2010 J Root average of 57.42<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1426242033036013570?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 13, 2021</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
No he is Englands best batsmen way ahead of the rest.
Internationally one of the current eras best.

Not sure of his captaincy though.
 
One of the best batsmen ever and certainly’s England greatest ever.

I really don’t want to hear anyone claim that Graham Thorpe and Mike Atherton as well as the pre War era batsmen like Hobbs and Hutton were better batsmen than Joe Root.

That is absolutely nonsense.

1. Joe Root
2. Kevin Petersen
3. Up for debate
 
Mamoon said:
One of the best batsmen ever and certainly’s England greatest ever.

I really don’t want to hear anyone claim that Graham Thorpe and Mike Atherton as well as the pre War era batsmen like Hobbs and Hutton were better batsmen than Joe Root.

That is absolutely nonsense.

1. Joe Root
2. Kevin Petersen
3. Up for debate
Click to expand...

Ask every England cricket fan and they’ll tell you that they’ve never seen a better batsman than KP in all 3 formats of the game.
 
SLcric123 said:
He has played 80 tests till now and has got over 6500 runs at an average just under 50 with 15 hundreds.

However, over 38 tests, he has just 4 hundreds away from home. His contemporaries, in comparison, have below number of hundreds away from home: -

Virat Kohli 14 in 42 tests
Steven Smith 10 in 35 tests
Kane Williamson 11 in 38 tests

He still averages a decent 42 away from England and Wales but hasn't been able to make any major impact in India, Australia, UAE and New Zealand.

Discuss!
Click to expand...

Would you like to have such a “home track bully” in YOUR current test team?
 
YousafTheBeast said:
Ask every England cricket fan and they’ll tell you that they’ve never seen a better batsman than KP in all 3 formats of the game.
Click to expand...

Well, yes, certainly in ODIs and T20s, KP is our greatest cricketer by miles. Particularly because he played in mostly a dismal era for English limited overs cricket and racked up some impressive numbers, also being named player of the tournament when England won their first World Cup (in T20s).

But even though he was a world class batsman, there is still some potential for KP in Test cricket that will remain unfulfilled. His consistency in the latter half of his career deteriorated — he went from averaging 52 (which is a number that is more representative of his talent), to low 40s, to ultimately 47 as his career average.

Although comparatively speaking a very high average in English Test cricket history, 47 is is at least 3 points too low in terms of KP’s standards. He should have been, as a minimum, a 50-averaging player. And, he finished on 8,000 Test runs, when he should have scored at least 10,000.

KP also arguably stuffed it up in some important series, where he had been partying too much in the buildup and in the end didn’t really turn up on the tour, not being able to contribute his usual trademark big hundred with his signature unorthodox shots.

And the myriad behavioural, emotional, difficult to manage, blown captaincy stuff which has all been widely documented obviously contributed to his overall slightly melancholy career outcomes.

Personally I would still say that, across all three formats and as an overall package, KP rates at the very top amongst England batters. But Joe Root could well go past him, given time, both in terms of talent and output (and he already has in terms of professionalism).
 
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