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Is it just me or does this Australian attack look very weak?

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waleed88

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Starc, Hazelwood, Bird and Lyon..

Compare this to the attack of any of the other teams it looks very weak..

Or the Australian attacks of yesteryear

I haven't seen anything special from either one of them.. most of our wickets have been gifted to them, it will be interesting to play against them with a normal Kookabura not under lights

Starc has pace but he is wayward.. He doesn't frequently bowl those big banana swingers, and he does give the odd hit me ball

Hazelwood and Bird barely hit the 140kph mark..

Nathan Lyon is a good offspinner, but our batsmen barely struggle against off spinners unless they are mystery

People say this is the weakest Australian side in a while..

I'm just pointing out we have made an ordinary Aussie attack look outstanding..
 
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Hazlewood is currently as good as anyone in the world.

Starc is ferocious too and has all skills and talent a world class bowler has.

The combo of Starc-Hazlewood is currently the deadliest pacer combo going around ahead of Anderson-Broad..No way you can call it a weaker Aussie attack.Hazle doesn't have pace but great control which works for him.

Both can become ATG bowler in the future.

Lyon is good in Australian conditions.
 
Ab Fan said:
Hazlewood is currently as good as anyone in the world.

Starc is ferocious too and has all skills and talent a world class bowler has.

The combo of Starc-Hazlewood is currently the deadliest pacer combo going around ahead of Anderson-Broad..No way you can call it a weaker Aussie attack.Hazle doesn't have pace but great control which works for him.

Both can become ATG bowler in the future.

Lyon is good in Australian conditions.
Click to expand...

We'll find that out when they play on flat tracks... Australia isn't the only country in the 'world' that gives out certificates for the 'best ever'
 
Just in. Glenn McGrath was nothing special because he barely hit the 140 kmph mark.
 
waleed88 said:
We'll find that out when they play on flat tracks... Australia isn't the only country in the 'world' that gives out certificates for the 'best ever'
Click to expand...

If Warner and Smith only score runs on flat tracks how can Hazlewood and Starc never bowl on flat tracks?
 
They rolled Pakistan yesterday, so they must have something about them.
 
GLORY OF '92 said:
Haha. Yes Starc and Hazelwood are deadliest new ball Test pair in history.
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They are, at the very least , on par with any other fast bowling pair in the world right now imo. The standards arent very high these days but other fast bowlers might just beat them due to being more experienced.
 
Yeah it's just you. Hazlewood and Starc are probably the best opening pair in the world right now.
 
FYI: James Patterson who can walk into any team in the world and displace their best bowler is still just waiting in the wings
 
Don't go by the speed,Hazlewood bowls good line and length and his height does the rest,agree somewhat on Starc though more like hit the deck hard kind of bowler not as threatening as with the white ball,probably can try to do what MJ did.Bird is decent but will be replaced if someone remotely good comes along,Lyon has been decent this test.
 
Hazlewood is good.

Starc has been average, our batsmen have gifted some wickets to him.

But on this forum people don't go by the actual performance. They'll just go "zomg it's Starccc dayem what a fearful bowler ATG!!".

That hasn't been the case in this match at least.

Amir and Hazlewood have comfortably been the best skilled pacers this match.

They know how to move the ball, the way Amir moved it both ways deciving Smith repeatedly was brilliance.

Hazlewood has been earning his wickets with that nagging line and slight movement too.
 
Pantani said:
They rolled Pakistan yesterday, so they must have something about them.
Click to expand...

They only rolled 'Pakistan' yesterday.. there must be something 'mediocre' about them

Their true test was against SA.And they duly failed to live up to their reputation
 
Convict said:
If Warner and Smith only score runs on flat tracks how can Hazlewood and Starc never bowl on flat tracks?
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Australia is not the only place in the world where cricket takes place.. Srilanka proved how mediocre Aus is in foreign conditions.. 3-0 it was
 
Convict said:
Just in. Glenn McGrath was nothing special because he barely hit the 140 kmph mark.
Click to expand...

Hazelwood is not Mcgrath, and I agree on the fact that Hazelwood is the most threatening of the lot..

Starc is just too wayward to be a new ball bowler
 
They are so bad that Starc has 133 wickets@28 , Hazlewwod has 97 wickets@25 and early in his career Bird has 24 wickets@27!!

In comparison bowling averages of their counterparts are - Amir 81 wickets@32, Wahab 70 wickets@33 and Rahat Ali 58 wickets@37 !

If Aus are weak, wonder what will you call Pak bowling as.
 
ShoonyaSifar said:
They are so bad that Starc has 133 wickets@28 , Hazlewwod has 97 wickets@25 and early in his career Bird has 24 wickets@27!!

In comparison bowling averages of their counterparts are - Amir 81 wickets@32, Wahab 70 wickets@33 and Rahat Ali 58 wickets@37 !

If Aus are weak, wonder what will you call Pak bowling as.
Click to expand...

Is a cricketing side that cannot win in Home conditions/ Foreign conditions.. where can they win exactly please tell me..

If they are getting outperformed by Philander and Rabada.. then you should seriously doubt their credentials
 
waleed88 said:
Starc, Hazelwood, Bird and Lyon..

Compare this to the attack of any of the other teams it looks very weak..

Or the Australian attacks of yesteryear

I haven't seen anything special from either one of them.. most of our wickets have been gifted to them, it will be interesting to play against them with a normal Kookabura not under lights

Starc has pace but he is wayward.. He doesn't frequently bowl those big banana swingers, and he does give the odd hit me ball

Hazelwood and Bird barely hit the 140kph mark..

Nathan Lyon is a good offspinner, but our batsmen barely struggle against off spinners unless they are mystery

People say this is the weakest Australian side in a while..

I'm just pointing out we have made an ordinary Aussie attack look outstanding..
Click to expand...

Think of it this way.

If the Australian attack is that weak and ordinary how come we were on the ropes at 97-8.

And think of it another way.

If our attack is better how come Australia piled up 429 runs in the first innings and romped to 200-5 at RR of 4 an over in 2nd innings while we are slaving away at 70-2 in 40 overs again in 2nd innings.

It may look ordinary to you, but it gets the job done.

Let's discuss the attack again after the 3 tests are over to gauge a true picture.
 
waleed88 said:
Is a cricketing side that cannot win in Home conditions/ Foreign conditions.. where can they win exactly please tell me..

If they are getting outperformed by Philander and Rabada.. then you should seriously doubt their credentials
Click to expand...

Philander and Rabada are a notch above all the bowlers in world cricket today.

They make Amir seem a pedestrian and average bowler.

Not a fair comparison.
 
Haz95 said:
But Mitchell Starc took an 11fer in Sri Lanka?
Click to expand...

Two separate things...

Can Warner and Smith bat on flat conditions? Yes... did they guide their team to victories? Yes at home, no away from home

Are Starc and Hazelwood good bowlers for all conditions? Yes/No?... At home they get outperformed by Rabada and Philander..

Away from home they have been generally poor, personal performance has been good.. but not been good enough to lead their team to victory
 
Dr_Bassim said:
Philander and Rabada are a notch above all the bowlers in world cricket today.

They make Amir seem a pedestrian and average bowler.

Not a fair comparison.
Click to expand...

Isn't Rabada just a recent introduction?

Starc has been playing around since 2012 if I remember correctly, this should be his peak..

Bowling friendly conditions seem to bring the worse out of him..

Hazelwood bowls in a channel and he's the best of the Australian lot..

Lyon is an offspinner, but not the best offspinner in the world

Bird is an unknown quantity
 
Dr_Bassim said:
Think of it this way.

If the Australian attack is that weak and ordinary how come we were on the ropes at 97-8.

And think of it another way.

If our attack is better how come Australia piled up 429 runs in the first innings and romped to 200-5 at RR of 4 an over in 2nd innings while we are slaving away at 70-2 in 40 overs again in 2nd innings.

It may look ordinary to you, but it gets the job done.

Let's discuss the attack again after the 3 tests are over to gauge a true picture.
Click to expand...

I feel NZ have a more threatening unit in comparitive terms..

NZ bowled consistently for 60-70 overs from both ends..

Henry, Boult, Southee, (the new guy ) Grandhomme, and then the spinners.. its a more balanced unit
 
Dr_Bassim said:
Philander and Rabada are a notch above all the bowlers in world cricket today.

They make Amir seem a pedestrian and average bowler.

Not a fair comparison.
Click to expand...

Lol. Talk about being biased dr. Saaab.

Rabada on current form is slightly better than Amir. I'll give you that.

Rabada is better than Amir and Starc atm. Yes.

However he's not leagues above. Form keeps varying. But on skill set, Starc is the lowest among Rabada and Amir.

Accept it.
 
Starc and Hazelwood are world class
 
waleed88 said:
Is a cricketing side that cannot win in Home conditions/ Foreign conditions.. where can they win exactly please tell me..

If they are getting outperformed by Philander and Rabada.. then you should seriously doubt their credentials
Click to expand...

Did you even watch/follow how Starc bowled in Sri Lanka?
 
waleed88 said:
Isn't Rabada just a recent introduction?

Starc has been playing around since 2012 if I remember correctly, this should be his peak..

Bowling friendly conditions seem to bring the worse out of him..

Hazelwood bowls in a channel and he's the best of the Australian lot..

Lyon is an offspinner, but not the best offspinner in the world

Bird is an unknown quantity
Click to expand...

Rabada is the most talented potential ATG bowler in the world today along with Starc.

Hazlewood is good but Philander averages under 20 if i am not wrong in swinging conditions. Amir averages 31 in comparison.

Bird is new we don't know much but Lyon is as better in Australia as any other spinner.
 
Hawkeye said:
Lol. Talk about being biased dr. Saaab.

Rabada on current form is slightly better than Amir. I'll give you that.

Rabada is better than Amir and Starc atm. Yes.

However he's not leagues above. Form keeps varying. But on skill set, Starc is the lowest among Rabada and Amir.

Accept it.
Click to expand...

Bias is considering Amir better than Starc even after averaging 30 plus in NZ in most bowler friendly conditions.

Why don't you wait for both their careers to be over and then see where each ends up.
 
waleed88 said:
Was it a match winning performance?
Click to expand...

It wasn't match winning because the batsmen could not bat.

Would you criticize Amir if he took a 10 fer but your team got bundled out for 150 odd all the time?
 
Dr_Bassim said:
Bias is considering Amir better than Starc even after averaging 30 plus in NZ in most bowler friendly conditions.

Why don't you wait for both their careers to be over and then see where each ends up.
Click to expand...

Umm, we're talking about the current match.

And overall skill-set (not stats).
 
Hawkeye said:
Umm, we're talking about the current match.

And overall skill-set (not stats).
Click to expand...

Overall skill set Starc is far ahead

Come back when Amir wins us an ODI World Cup
 
Hawkeye said:
Umm, we're talking about the current match.

And overall skill-set (not stats).
Click to expand...

Skill set is used to defend a bowler if stats don't show him in a rosy light.

Current match both were equivalent and I already said that in other thread.

In THIS thread OP is talking about Australian attack being weaker than ALL THE OTHER TEAMS.

Yes or No?

If yes, where does that leave Pakistan attack?
 
Slog said:
Overall skill set Starc is far ahead

Come back when Amir wins us an ODI World Cup
Click to expand...

Again irrelevant. It's a Test match where Amir has been ahead of him, and just behind Hazlewood.
 
The way Azhar and Sami batted today before the lights came on, I'm confident our batsmen can make runs against this attack.

Hazlewood is threatening, but the other two not as much and the batsmen should be able to cope.

The question is, can the others follow the way Sami and Azhar played?
 
Barragan said:
The way Azhar and Sami batted today before the lights came on, I'm confident our batsmen can make runs against this attack.

Hazlewood is threatening, but the other two not as much and the batsmen should be able to cope.

The question is, can the others follow the way Sami and Azhar played?
Click to expand...

But can they make 490 to win the match over 2 days?

I am also confident of making runs.

Just not confident that they can get them all.
 
Hawkeye said:
Again irrelevant. It's a Test match where Amir has been ahead of him, and just behind Hazlewood.
Click to expand...

Over the past six months do you seriously think Amir has been anywhere near Starc, all formats considered?
 
Dr_Bassim said:
Skill set is used to defend a bowler if stats don't show him in a rosy light.

Current match both were equivalent and I already said that in other thread.

In THIS thread OP is talking about Australian attack being weaker than ALL THE OTHER TEAMS.

Yes or No?

If yes, where does that leave Pakistan attack?
Click to expand...

Pakistani attack is far behind... however Amir vs Starc comparison is where I feel Amir is ahead of Starc in terms of consistency and bowling in a channel with the new ball

What kind of a fast bowler bowls bouncers with the new ball? There has to be lack of common sense if that ploy is being applied.. that is Mitchell Starc for you
 
waleed88 said:
Pakistani attack is far behind... however Amir vs Starc comparison is where I feel Amir is ahead of Starc in terms of consistency and bowling in a channel with the new ball

What kind of a fast bowler bowls bouncers with the new ball? There has to be lack of common sense if that ploy is being applied.. that is Mitchell Starc for you
Click to expand...

Your original post said Australian attack is weakest of all teams.

Now you are claiming Pakistan is weaker ? :13:

Amir vs Starc debate has been laid to rest in the other thread. Both were equal in this match. If you are biased, you are more likely to pick one or the other in this match.

But Starc still has the ability to change it with a match-winning performance. Amir's time has passed for this match though.
 
Slog said:
Over the past six months do you seriously think Amir has been anywhere near Starc, all formats considered?
Click to expand...

As far as new ball swing goes.. Amir has been gun barrel straight, Starc gets the odd ball to jag but the rest of the time he doesn't make batsmen play.. instead he bowls it short and wide or bowls bouncers.. then he comes up and swears a couple of things.. this pseudo aggression doesn't work for his baby face..

However atleast Amir makes an effort to swing it and bowls a proper channel unlike Starc
 
I won't call Aussie attack weak. Starc-Hazlewood duo is up there with Rabada and Steyn, and the other pacers too are comparable to Amir and Wahab.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
Your original post said Australian attack is weakest of all teams.

Now you are claiming Pakistan is weaker ? :13:

Amir vs Starc debate has been laid to rest in the other thread. Both were equal in this match. If you are biased, you are more likely to pick one or the other in this match.

But Starc still has the ability to change it with a match-winning performance. Amir's time has passed for this match though.
Click to expand...

Yess my bad... I feel Indian, NZ and SA attacks are better than Australians at the moment..

Then Australia, and after that Pakistan
 
Slog said:
Over the past six months do you seriously think Amir has been anywhere near Starc, all formats considered?
Click to expand...

No, over the past six months Amir wasn't as good, neither at his peak.
 
I would put English attack on par with the Pakistani attack.. Broad and Anderson look finished, Woakes and Stokes (when he is fit) are the future.. Moeen Ali and Adil Rasheed are the weak spots of the attack
 
Dr_Bassim said:
But can they make 490 to win the match over 2 days?

I am also confident of making runs.

Just not confident that they can get them all.
Click to expand...

If this team gets 490 runs in two days I will bring my office in the USA cake on monday to celebrate.
 
I agree with the OP, in that Aussies have an above average attack that's all nothing exceptional. Josh Hazlewood is a very good bowler and Starc is a decent pacer in tests but far from being the best, James Pattinson if fit would definitely be the best Aussie bowler.

Its simply ordinary batting by the Pakistani middle order that is making them look exceptional not to mention they were tested in difficult conditions under lights.
 
I think it's an honest attack, but to expose it we have to at deep. Which we haven't, so we lose bragging rights.
 
Yes man, Wahab and Rahat are world beaters. But Starc, Hazlewood and Bird are just average. It's ridiculous how much we overrate our own players because of some hidden potential that only we can see. Rahat and Wahab for all their talent and ability have had average careers while all of their three pacers have been effective. None of them is weak or even average. It is a world class pace attack. Lyon is nothing exceptional but he has overperformed and he is the best they have had post-Warne. Even he has not been very easy for our batsmen. So no, they are not weak. They had us at 67/8, give them some credit. Don't just call it our batsmen's mistakes. They have to be tight to even force those mistakes. When our bowlers take wickets, I never see anyone saying 'hey man our bowlers were average, the opposition just threw it away'.
 
Why PPers think that Aus pace attack is weak. It looks good to me with Aus opening bowlers walking into pretty much every team right now.
 
waleed88 said:
Two separate things...

Can Warner and Smith bat on flat conditions? Yes... did they guide their team to victories? Yes at home, no away from home

Are Starc and Hazelwood good bowlers for all conditions? Yes/No?... At home they get outperformed by Rabada and Philander..

Away from home they have been generally poor, personal performance has been good.. but not been good enough to lead their team to victory
Click to expand...

Hazlewood got more wickets than Rabada and Philander though

Just because Australia's batting is weak doesn't mean Hazlewood and Starc aren't good
 
waleed88 said:
Starc, Hazelwood, Bird and Lyon..

Compare this to the attack of any of the other teams it looks very weak..

Or the Australian attacks of yesteryear

I haven't seen anything special from either one of them.. most of our wickets have been gifted to them, it will be interesting to play against them with a normal Kookabura not under lights

Starc has pace but he is wayward.. He doesn't frequently bowl those big banana swingers, and he does give the odd hit me ball

Hazelwood and Bird barely hit the 140kph mark..

Nathan Lyon is a good offspinner, but our batsmen barely struggle against off spinners unless they are mystery

People say this is the weakest Australian side in a while..

I'm just pointing out we have made an ordinary Aussie attack look outstanding..
Click to expand...


It's you - if the bowlers remain healthy. What Aussies are missing a 35 overs tight bowler, so that Starc can run flat out for 18 overs a day at max. Bird will do fine in AUS/SAF/NZ/ENG, while Josh is as good as anyone there with new ball. So, basically it's just one hole to fill - Lyon is inferior than the blonde (that is now, when the blonde is almost 50 - still can serve better with 4 weeks training).

In India, Smith will have to bowl 15 overs at least, Aussies will need Lyon & the lefti spinner (got injured in SRL) to perform better than Bhai, Bhai pair + Starc/Josh has to be in supreme physical condition - it won't be that bad attack, particularly, if they bat first.

If I were Aussie selector, I would have rested Starc/Josh pair from PAK ODI (Cummins, Bird as well - unnecessary risk - AUS A can do the 5-0 job; if PAK wins an odd game, it'll be an upset win, doesn't matter who bowls for Aussies). In fact, if it goes to 2-0 by SCG, I'll rest that pair for 3rd Test as well.
 
I think it is just you. Aussie attack is quite strong.
Also, you are saying that Aussies attack was outplayed by SA attack. That is because SA attack is very strong as well.
 
If Australian attack is weak, what does it say about Pakistani batsmen who were tottering at 67/8 in the first innings?
 
If the Aussie attack is weak then I don't even know what the Pakistani attack is.

One thing I noticed was Starc's pace is DOWN. He was operating in the 135kph range. Maybe he realized that you only need to go at 50% effort to dismiss our useless batsmen.
 
waleed88 said:
They only rolled 'Pakistan' yesterday.. there must be something 'mediocre' about them

Their true test was against SA.And they duly failed to live up to their reputation
Click to expand...

They did ok against South Africa, it was the batting which was exposed
 
Against SAF, AUS attack failed only twice, or may be 2.5 times - once De Kok took SAF to 240 from 34/4; partial failure, 2nd time JP played a blinder with Elgar to take the match out of Aussie reach; 3rd time they allowed Bavuma & Kok to take the game away from 150/5 or so. These are partial failure, because they created the platform - at least at WACA 1st innings & at Hobart. AUS lost for losing 10/89 (from 150+/0 !!!), 10/85.
 
waleed88 said:
We'll find that out when they play on flat tracks... Australia isn't the only country in the 'world' that gives out certificates for the 'best ever'
Click to expand...

What is left to find out?

Starc ran through SL attack on flat decks in SL. They lost there because of lack of quality spinner. Lyon is good in Australia but not outside Aus.

Hazlewood is as good as anyone in the world bar Rabada.

Australia losing games away from home is more due to the fact that their batsmen struggle vs spin or swing and hence they have lost in Asia and in England.

Anderson and Broad haven't run through sides in Asia. I back Starc/ Hazle to do so when they play next time in Asia although they might still lose due to inability of quality spin playing batsmen.
 
300/6 chasing 491... with 2 potential ATGs bowling.. I'd say there are causes for concern for the Aussies.. Starc has bowled rubbish besides that one delivery to Sarfaraz.. going at 3.4 an over on a day 4 pitch...

If not for the physique I would think this is Rahat Ali bowling
 
Lyon has proved a huge liability, and even after seeing how Pakistan has struggled against Woakes and Grandhomme in their previous foreign tour matches, they still opted for an offspinner (as a 4th bowler) against a side who plays them very well.. There should be questions asked of Smith's captaincy.. this match was walk away after we were 171/5... Aussies will win this match but they've let this go more close than they should
 
This is a Pakistani side who have probably scored their highest 4th innings total in Australia for a while.. shame
 
waleed88 said:
This is a Pakistani side who have probably scored their highest 4th innings total in Australia for a while.. shame
Click to expand...

Shows the mental strength of the Pakistan team and I think Misbah deserves credit

Our 90s and 2000s batsmen had bigger names but they were chicken hearted
 
Its a flat pitch.... don't judge bowlers on this....

Pak batsmen failed their team in first innings, they should have played better after 2 NZ tests and a four day warm up
 
leg-side-flick said:
Its a flat pitch.... don't judge bowlers on this....

Pak batsmen failed their team in first innings, they should have played better after 2 NZ tests and a four day warm up
Click to expand...

NZ pitches had nothing similar to these pitches.. NZ pitches had more grass and less carry... this is a completely different challenge altogether...
 
waleed88 said:
NZ pitches had nothing similar to these pitches.. NZ pitches had more grass and less carry... this is a completely different challenge altogether...
Click to expand...

Thats what I am saying, They should have batted better... the way Australia did by scoring some 700 runs for 15 wickets
 
They are weak. It's just that Pakistan would make the Zimbabwe attack look unplayable.
 
pillionrider said:
Yes they are weak.

The one Kohli feasted on was superior.
Click to expand...

hahahaha
Harris was better than Bird def
But Starc and Hazelwood are better as a combination than Johnson and Sidle

Infact if you look at it statistically Starcand Hazelwood are among the best for Australia
 
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