Is it time for Babar Azam to relinquish T20 captaincy?

[Nasty Naz]

Wasim Akram:

"I like this T20 type of pitch. I enjoyed watching bowlers bowl bouncers and getting wickets, both sides. It was a good cricketing game that went down to the wire till the last over. Babar made one mistake. He should have had Nawaz bowl the 13th or 14th over. It was too late. You can't have a spinner in T20s bowling in the last 3 to 4 overs, especially against the likes of Ravindra Jadeja and Hardik Pandya"

What a dumb thing to say. Nawaz bowling 4th over in a row and Jadeja was sent in specifically to nullify the spinners. It would have been incredibly risky.

Either way, almost no bowler in the world is defending 7 runs with 6 balls left & 6 wickets in hand. Pakistan's best bet was running out the fast bowlers like he did to contain runs and hope to take some wickets and leave something defendable for Nawaz. Rauf gave up like 15 runs the over prior and that was the game. If he gives up 10 runs, then 12 runs is defendable.

Can blame Babar for the over-rate penalty but then again, India also had the same issue and Pakistan bowlers as well as the wicket keeper were all experiencing cramps. Tough conditions for these players to be playing in.

 

[shamaan]

Nothing wrong with his captaincy however I would have given Iftikhar 1 over when Nawaz got removed from the attack.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

The only way he could avoid this in the future is bringing on his spinner straight after the powerplay or having him bowl one or two during the powerplay if he is using 2 spinners

Everyone who understands cricket knew that bowling Nawaz’s 4th over in a row in the game would have been catastrophic. Pakistan didn’t have enough runs to take the risk

It was a tricky situation with India sending Jadeja at 4. The pitch was doing its bit for pacers and Naseem and Dhani were bowling well. The idea to go bowl 6 overs of pace upfront was justified. It's just that Haris didn't make any use of the conditions. Plus with Pandya in such pristine touch, it became really difficult to win the match.

 

[Muhammad Saad]

Babar did what he was suppose to be doing , he was expecting the pacers to remove one of Jedega or Pandya before bowling Nawaz against new batter. Totally good decision , it just the Rauf didn't use the condition well enough.

 

[shaz619]

These threads are ridiculous who is remotely going to replace him who is able to consistently hold their place in the side and number 2 can they remotely match the presence of Babar who is just too respected and admired. There is no strong alternative who is being groomed really so why even discuss this. This should be a talking point down the line when Babar will inevitably be impacted by burn out

 

[Rana]

These threads are ridiculous who is remotely going to replace him who is able to consistently hold their place in the side and number 2 can they remotely match the presence of Babar who is just too respected and admired. There is no strong alternative who is being groomed really so why even discuss this. This should be a talking point down the line when Babar will inevitably be impacted by burn out

Shadab is equally good if not a better candidate

 

[shamaan]

Shadab is equally good if not a better candidate

Shadab has fitness issues he certainly was a candidate before Babar become captain.

 

[Muhammad Saad]

Hasan Ali se dosti khatam, Khushdil is now my best friend : Babar the player destroyer!

Seriously what's wrong with Babar , he tries to give his friends confidence till the point that player's confidence shatters completely till the point of no return , will Babar realize that T20 game is a game of form ,if you are not in form , you don't deserve the spot in the playing XI ,give another player chance and out of form players gets back in form. Form is temporary and class is permanent doesn't apply in T20s.

 

[MSaad1237]

Babar as a captain deserves all the criticism in the world, only letting Nawaz bowl a single over when he has only gone for 3 runs and continuing with bowling Iftikhar and Hasnain is beyond my thought process, his field placement and taking out slips quickly when fast bowlers are in attacking mode during power plays also blows out my mind.

With the current weak middle order, our batting lineup is as good as Afghanistan's.

Khushdil and Iftikhar needs to GO!

 

[Rana]

This is a nonsense thread.No is the simple answer. Babar has captained well for PK and the team is playing with cohesion and confidence.

Never with me buddy

Bhai always knows what he is talking about

 

[Rana]

I’m afraid he seems well out of his depth. Twice in a row he has completely failed in a run chase whilst scoring a decent personal score.

-Tactically inept
-uninspiring leadership
-clueless facial expressions/sometimes lashing out against other fielders
-Hiding behind other power hitters, never taking responsibility himself to assert dominance
-Pointless, useless reviews. Not reading the game situation
-Occupying a spot as a powerplay batsman with no power game.

I think it makes no sense for him to be captaining any T20 side, anyone who wants to use him should do so hoping he selfishly gets on with his game whilst the others around him do all the hard work.

It is sad that Pakistan removed a decent T20 captain who played for the team and brought in a man who cares about himself first.

Kuch bhi nahi badla

Sab waise ka waisa hai

 

[TheSultan]

Babar is a poor captain. He is neither good as a strategist or a leader. Unfortunately I think he has a lot of power now, which is not a good thing, but it will keep him as captain.

Shadab is the natural alternative

 

[Bewal Express]

Never with me buddy

Bhai always knows what he is talking about

Babar has done a decent job. We don't have the players ans that is obvious. If he fails we lose, we have a chance when he and Riz score. And by the How is Asif these days?

 

[Rana]

Babar has done a decent job. We don't have the players ans that is obvious. If he fails we lose, we have a chance when he and Riz score. And by the How is Asif these days?

Winning more matches for Pakistan than your favourites

Love how you are clueless in most subjects

 

[Pakrodens]

Winning more matches for Pakistan than your favourites

Love how you are clueless in most subjects

Oh now Asif Ali is winning matches for Pakistan single handedly?! What was his topscore in those matches?? If the others didnt score runs, he would not be able to hit the final nails in the coffin. Did he ever won a match when nobody else scored, like the 7th match?

When did asif ali single handedly won matches like Razzaq and Shahid Afridi did once in a while?

You often say stuff which makes absolute no sense. Let me explain that, so from your logic point of view, Amir Jamal won us the 5th match? So all the others bowled their heart out was for nothing? They did nothing to leave 15 runs at the end to defend? Was it all Aamir Jamal??? NO! It was teamwork, like it was when Asif scored last winning runs.

So how can you say that Asif Ali is “winning” matches for Pakistan?

And even if he hit those winning runs, why does that count? Cause according to you all runs Rizwan and Babar have scored, are against b and c string bowlers, so how is that different for Asif??
And you want Asif to be captain of the side, goodness me, what a joke. Babar is not the best captain and not a natural leader but that would account the same for Asif ali.

 

[Rana]

Babar Azam

Your time is up

 

[greatest]

Babar Azam

Your time is up

Babar will continue...we don't have even one player with a great cricketing brain. Maybe Shan Masood, but he is too good a bloke to be a captain of Pakistan. The press will eat him up!

 

[IMMY69]

Please god yes for the sake of our cricket..

Also Saqlain and Moyo need to be shown the door

 

[reversehook]

Please god yes for the sake of our cricket..

Also Saqlain and Moyo need to be shown the door

i dont know about that choice of word, its just too Nice...

 

[Mainul]

Tendulkar wasn't a decent captain,let alone good.

England wasted a lot of investment on the captain Root.

Your best player isn't always the guy to go when captaincy is in concerns.

Pakistan should come out of comfort zone ASAP and hand over the captaincy to either of Rizwan,Shadab or Shaheen.

In my opinion,Rizwan should be the first choice for now.

 

[160KPH]

Doesnt make a difference. Our failure is a batting order thet does not click together, changing the captain wont fix that.

 

[mon858]

regardless of result in World Cup, he should not be captain in LOIs. look at his results in PSL and to-date in LOI format. he lacks strategic thinking, leadership skills, innovation, being bold/brave, imposing on opposition, getting the maximum out of individual players, bowling right bowlers at right time, willing to change batting order, etc that is really needed to captain an international (let alone domestic) T20 side.

it was a good try to move on from Sarfraz as there was no question about his place in side and he could be one captain for all formats (which you couldn't do it by choosing shadab as alternative, though Rizwan could have worked perhaps).

anyway, people need to realize things, and time to let him "groom" into leadership is over. this will have major consequences also in next world cup.

My suggestion:
1. Shadab as ODI/T20 captain, Shaheen vice-captain
(that leaves you option if at some point in future you want to give more chance to alternate keeper, but Shadab/Shaheen won't be dropped barring injury)
2. Babar can stay as Test captain, Shaheen as vice captain (just for more leadership exposure to Shaheen for future. nothing against Rizwan. we could stick with Rizwan as well, no issues).

Along with that:
1. replace current coaching staff completely
2. first identify and hire a top-tier head coach
3. let him identify and bring his team of batting and fielding coach
4. for bowling coach consider someone like Azhar Mahmood to balance things out and translating messaging to team.

One combo could be Andy Flower + foreign fielding coach + Azhar Mahmood.
Add a specialist hard-hitting batting consultant like Julian Wood at NCA to work with national and A team for 6 months of year.

 

[IMMY69]

On another note, look at how every spinner bowled on this track.
How many overs did Nawaz bowl?

 

[greatest]

Like Bob Simpson did 40 odd years ago, some ATG needs to get out off retirement and lead this side. Who knows maybe Shoaib Malik can make a comeback.

 

[Savak]

Doesnt make a difference. Our failure is a batting order thet does not click together, changing the captain wont fix that.

Babar is the one who stubbornly insisted on taking this middle order to the WC inspite of several pleas from the Chief Selector and Ramiz to have a rethink but he refused. He should put his hand up and accept responsibility.

 

[CricVet]

Some people just fail to learn: Change starts from the top. If being wise or good at something was good enough, Einstein would be made a leader. A good leader ship instills passion to success and that rare trait is a skill itself that only few can have.

 

[The_KING]

He needs to be kicked out of the T20 team, forget the captaincy. He is the worst captain in Pakistan history. Awful captain and a very overrated batsman.

 

[mon858]

regardless of result in World Cup, he should not be captain in LOIs. look at his results in PSL and to-date in LOI format. he lacks strategic thinking, leadership skills, innovation, being bold/brave, imposing on opposition, getting the maximum out of individual players, bowling right bowlers at right time, willing to change batting order, etc that is really needed to captain an international (let alone domestic) T20 side.

it was a good try to move on from Sarfraz as there was no question about his place in side and he could be one captain for all formats (which you couldn't do it by choosing shadab as alternative, though Rizwan could have worked perhaps).

anyway, people need to realize things, and time to let him "groom" into leadership is over. this will have major consequences also in next world cup.

My suggestion:
1. Shadab as ODI/T20 captain, Shaheen vice-captain
(that leaves you option if at some point in future you want to give more chance to alternate keeper, but Shadab/Shaheen won't be dropped barring injury)
2. Babar can stay as Test captain, Shaheen as vice captain (just for more leadership exposure to Shaheen for future. nothing against Rizwan. we could stick with Rizwan as well, no issues).

Along with that:
1. replace current coaching staff completely
2. first identify and hire a top-tier head coach
3. let him identify and bring his team of batting and fielding coach
4. for bowling coach consider someone like Azhar Mahmood to balance things out and translating messaging to team.

One combo could be Andy Flower + foreign fielding coach + Azhar Mahmood.
Add a specialist hard-hitting batting consultant like Julian Wood at NCA to work with national and A team for 6 months of year.

forgot to add to list of things he doesn't have: ability to go for kill and close out opposition once their 4 to 5 wickets down for low score (happened in Asia cup vs SL, India match this world cup, and to an extend even Zim was 7 down under 100 i think). for all the issues with Sarfraz, if one thing he had was constant aggression to not let anyone off the hook (not letting players give 2 or 3 when could be cut down, extras, keep slip in, extra fielder in circle, etc.)

 

[AlooGhobi]

He should have gone after the semi-final last year. Instead he was lauded for reaching that stage. Tactically inept. Not a leader.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

Gone, gone, gone

 

[Muhammad Saad]

He is egoistic and timid at the same time , the safety first approach can't win you any major tournaments and you can't keep giving chances to out of form players, well I think the Babar's time over from making plain shockingly obvious blunders again and again , I feel that this guy really lack basic intelligence let alone intelligence to be the captain of national side.

 

[Muhammad Saad]

Rizwan should be the captain as he is brave and selfless, Shahdab is tactically strong but also selfish so he won't be good captain either.

 

[Rana]

Are you by any chance from India? Babar has always been the anchor. The onus is on other batsmen to play fast like Rizwan

Doesn't make sense to remove him as a captain for national team on the basis of his team performance in PSL. If he fails to deliver in the international stage then sure. You can make a case then.

But I do think right now Rizwan is a better option.

This is a nonsense thread.No is the simple answer. Babar has captained well for PK and the team is playing with cohesion and confidence.

Didnt take the ungrateful and shameless Pakistani fans to take the knives out based on a performance in a domestic league. What do you want him to do when the rest of the team is not performing?

It's PSL, no one cares. Even Babar doesn't care, he's just there for the cash. How he performs or captains here is irrelevant.

Where

Are

You

Now!

 

[Jazx]

Clearly as a captain babar looks clueless in crunch situations. Tactically very poor and rather stiff in doing any experiments. But who is the replacement? His deputy Shadab also looks to be very limited in understanding the game. They all are mediocre in reading the games and match situation.

 

[dildilpak]

Yeah, but whom should we replace him with? Rizwan? Shah Masood?

 

[Jazx]

Yeah, but whom should we replace him with? Rizwan? Shah Masood?

Rizwan is the only contender. Masood first needs to confirm his place in team with match winning performances.

 

[wrongun]

2 years until the next WC.

Need to actually change the captain early. Give them time to grow into it.

I'd suggest Mahsood. He's going to be Yorkshire's captain so will be getting plenty of experience at it before the next WC. If you swap from Babar to RIzwan the cosy partnership just continues.

 

[ARK Rafay]

Where

Are

You

Now!

My comment is still valid.

 

[MenInG]

Kamran Akmal:

"If he considers me an elder brother, Babar Azam should quit captaincy after this World Cup. If you want him to score 25,000 runs or 22,000 runs, he should only play as a player. Otherwise, he will come under extreme pressure and his performance will go down.

"If Babar or my uncle understands this, the former should step down as captain. He should focus on his game like Virat Kohli has. He should play for long, as after him, we aren't able to see a batsman as solid as him"

"If you want him to be the captain of the team, Pakistan cricket will have to bear a big loss as he might not be around for too long (as a batter),"


Younis Khan:

"We have been talking about Babar Azam's captaincy for long. If you repeat the same mistake, it becomes your habit, maybe you can't focus. If we talk about Babar, he is a top batsman and is a good person who is down to Earth. Leadership qualities aren't there in everyone. Like Kamran Akmal said, there's no spark in his captaincy"

"Leading a club side is a different thing but when you are captaining a nation, you need to be a leader, you need to come out of your skin," Younis, who himself has led Pakistan in the past, said.

 

[mikeypbadana86]

Art of captaincy: Babar's lack of mental aspect of the game

2007 t20 world cup , Misbhah got 20+ runs off Harbhajan singh's over leading up to the last 4. Having exhausted all possible options( every bowler completing the quota of 4 overs) for the 20th over, Dhoni was left with the only option of Harbhajan singh.

Dhonis greatness always lied in his ability to not just read the game but mental aspect of team mates around and how every one is responding to pressure. One of the interviews, dhoni revelated as to how he arrived at the decision of bowling last over with JOGINDER SHARMA as opposed to harbajahn.

Dhoni checked with harbajhan whether he is confident of bowling the last over , having gone for 20 + earlier. Harbhajan was unsure. When the bowler does not have confidence, why not go with an other option?


Its clear, nawaz had gone for 20 + runs during ind vs pak. If babar did a DHONI, he would have gone ahead with iftikar? Iftikar having scored 50+ in the match would have been upbeat for the challenge having been in proper mental space. Pak would have still lost but in hindsight iftikar would have been the better choice?


In addition, all great captains are big time punters. Babar does not seem to be one always going for the safer options? Remember "RISK vs REWARD" ? Since babar does take safety options, he may not win crunch games.

 

[Jazx]

2007 t20 world cup , Misbhah got 20+ runs off Harbhajan singh's over leading up to the last 4. Having exhausted all possible options( every bowler completing the quota of 4 overs) for the 20th over, Dhoni was left with the only option of Harbhajan singh.

Dhonis greatness always lied in his ability to not just read the game but mental aspect of team mates around and how every one is responding to pressure. One of the interviews, dhoni revelated as to how he arrived at the decision of bowling last over with JOGINDER SHARMA as opposed to harbajahn.

Dhoni checked with harbajhan whether he is confident of bowling the last over , having gone for 20 + earlier. Harbhajan was unsure. When the bowler does not have confidence, why not go with an other option?


Its clear, nawaz had gone for 20 + runs during ind vs pak. If babar did a DHONI, he would have gone ahead with iftikar? Iftikar having scored 50+ in the match would have been upbeat for the challenge having been in proper mental space. Pak would have still lost but in hindsight iftikar would have been the better choice?


In addition, all great captains are big time punters. Babar does not seem to be one always going for the safer options? Remember "RISK vs REWARD" ? Since babar does take safety options, he may not win crunch games.

Very true, even i would say he could have given iftikhar one over to finish the quota of nawaz during 16th or 17th over. That would have left with option to go with all pace in the last 3-4. Babar is really stiff with his tactics and approach as a captain. Don't have any out of the box thinking.

 

[Rana]

Can’t take this torture anymore

 

[Kianig89]

BABAR needs to man up now Sf 21 Dubai, Asia Cup Final Eng Series decider and now WT20 he needs to get the act right

 

[Rana]

Congratulations to all franchises besides PZ for dodging this bullet

 

[Savak]

He is not going to improve much as a captain. The job needs to be given to someone who is more natural at the job.

Pakistan needs Babar the batsman, not the captain.

 

[AfridiRagingBull]

He needs to give it up, not a terrible captain but nowhere near good. Rizwan or Shadab are solid options.

 

[Rana]

He needs to give it up, not a terrible captain but nowhere near good. Rizwan or Shadab are solid options.

If it’s going to be Rizwan I’d rather he stays

 

[AfridiRagingBull]

If it’s going to be Rizwan I’d rather he stays

Rizwan seems more energetic, takes responsibility and can be dynamic, might make a good captain. Babar follows the same script every time. No imagination.

 

[Saj]

Well Shadab is the vice captain, so you'd think that he would be next in line to take over as skipper.

 

[Rana]

Rizwan seems more energetic, takes responsibility and can be dynamic, might make a good captain. Babar follows the same script every time. No imagination.

No.


Just no.

 

[CricVet]

Rizwan is good and experienced. He is level headed, but should know his position in the team. He is not an LOI opener unless we play cricket on dud wickets where he has time to step back and keep swatting over the leg.
Pakistan needs to make minor changes.

* Get an aggressive opening pair to take advantage of 30 yards restriction. As I suggested before the BD game to test Shan Masood and Haris as openers which might have yielded better results. After BD game. It was too late to experiment.

* Babar must be forced to come at 3 or 4

* Get a fast bowling alrounder.

 

[mon858]

he should but no way PCB will make any change at all now that they made it to final.

they may not even drop any of the failures or players who played no part like Asif, Khushdil, etc.

 

[Markhor]

Can’t take this torture anymore

He's got to go. Three winnable Cups all lost in space of a year with no lessons seemingly learned along the way.

Today there was a moment when Naseem was getting ENG to play and miss several times. Babar had to be prompted by Rizwan into bringing in a slip !

Bhai, you've only got 137 on board and Naseem is mainly an outswing bowler. There's movement on offer too. Any half decent captain shouldn't need prompting to bring in a slip !

There's also his maddening tendency of saving best bowlers for last. It backfired again, this time as Shaheen was injured while catching.

 

[JibranAnsari]

Pakistan need to build their bench strength , pakkstan need to understand that they may need to sacrifice wins in some meaningless bilaterals to make a really formidable team especially in batting department.We cant make a good batting team with rizwan and babar playing 12 overs every match. The openers will need to take risks. You cant keep hitters like sharjeel away from the team.

 

[IMMY69]

I've been a strong advocate of a change of captaincy BUT Babar's captaincy actually improved as the tournament went on. Good field placements and bowling changes...

However, we do need a better coach and a chief selector who doesn't pick tried and tested failures.
If Babar hasn't learned by now that he can keep picking these players then a strong coach and selector will hopefully take the decision out of his hands.

I'm encouraged that he had the strength to drop Asif Ali and Happy Heart but that was probably because their selections was indefensible

 

[We Bleed Green]

Absolutely yes, there is no doubt in any one mind that Babar Azam must not be T20 or ODI captain.

Babar must not ever open in T20s.

 

[Major]

I've been a strong advocate of a change of captaincy BUT Babar's captaincy actually improved as the tournament went on. Good field placements and bowling changes...

However, we do need a better coach and a chief selector who doesn't pick tried and tested failures.
If Babar hasn't learned by now that he can keep picking these players then a strong coach and selector will hopefully take the decision out of his hands.

I'm encouraged that he had the strength to drop Asif Ali and Happy Heart but that was probably because their selections was indefensible

bro i would disagree here.

Babar's captaincy has issues. He doesnt seem to bowl an extra bowler so that he has more options left. Yes, when we have high score than he is easy, but when we are fighting a low total, the guy goes with the set script and will never bend.

Nawaz being used against stokes could had helped us as it would had given us more options in overs at the end.

Also, why would you tell your players to play your natural game at MCG . That is one of the worst advice to give.

I understand our fans like terms like aggresivve cricket, playing natural game, but these things dont work everywhere.

Had Harris now played his natural game, had waseem jr and other players not tried to go for shots, we could had easily made a score of 160+

captaincy is an issue, and Babar has lost us 3 tournaments.

He is a great batsman, but captain wise he is clueless

 

[Major]

He's got to go. Three winnable Cups all lost in space of a year with no lessons seemingly learned along the way.

Today there was a moment when Naseem was getting ENG to play and miss several times. Babar had to be prompted by Rizwan into bringing in a slip !

Bhai, you've only got 137 on board and Naseem is mainly an outswing bowler. There's movement on offer too. Any half decent captain shouldn't need prompting to bring in a slip !

There's also his maddening tendency of saving best bowlers for last. It backfired again, this time as Shaheen was injured while catching.

funny thing was, Babar would place a slip for Naseem than remove it. Than he placed a slip again and he would remove it again. Finally Rizwan asked him to bring in a slip again.

 

[Rana]

I've been a strong advocate of a change of captaincy BUT Babar's captaincy actually improved as the tournament went on. Good field placements and bowling changes...

However, we do need a better coach and a chief selector who doesn't pick tried and tested failures.
If Babar hasn't learned by now that he can keep picking these players then a strong coach and selector will hopefully take the decision out of his hands.

I'm encouraged that he had the strength to drop Asif Ali and Happy Heart but that was probably because their selections was indefensible

In what ways did his captaincy improve?

-his no.3 (Harris) was a forced change and a hope that something clicks for him

-his middle order where playing musical chairs throughout the tournament and also prior to the tournament

-his own stubbornness to waste powerplay deliveries as an opener didn’t improve anything

-he picked 3 bits and pieces players in Iftikhar, Nawaz and Wasim Jr

-he was expected to pick up 6/10 points anyways in the group stages at least. It was the freak Netherlands win against SA that got him over the line.

-he was also knowingly carrying an unfit cricketer throughout the tournament whereas there were fully fit options on the bench

 

[Markhor]

funny thing was, Babar would place a slip for Naseem than remove it. Than he placed a slip again and he would remove it again. Finally Rizwan asked him to bring in a slip again.

The worrying thing is Babar's not a young captain anymore. He's led for 3 years and keeps repeating the same errors.

I maintain T20 is the hardest format for captains. The decisions come at you fast, and you can lose a game in an over so there's little margin for error.

Therefore you need a tactically adept captain who's quick on their feet. Babar however sticks to the same script regardless of situation. His batting is also being affected.

Do you see PCB making a change though ? I doubt they'll replace him with a year until ODI World Cup.

 

[Major]

The worrying thing is Babar's not a young captain anymore. He's led for 3 years and keeps repeating the same errors.

I maintain T20 is the hardest format for captains. The decisions come at you fast, and you can lose a game in an over so there's little margin for error.

Therefore you need a tactically adept captain who's quick on their feet. Babar however sticks to the same script regardless of situation. His batting is also being affected.

Do you see PCB making a change though ? I doubt they'll replace him with a year until ODI World Cup.

Depends upon what stance rameez has. Issue is these ex cricketers have made Imran khan their demi God that whatever he says it cannot be questioned.

Rameez removing babar would only happen if rameez also sees issue with his captaincy.

 

[Shafi]

Nothing will change. This final berth will damage our cricket more than anything. Now these players will be treated as hero and signboard coaches will continue for another 5 years. Ramiz needs to be sacked first.

 

[Shafi]

Depends upon what stance rameez has. Issue is these ex cricketers have made Imran khan their demi God that whatever he says it cannot be questioned.

Rameez removing babar would only happen if rameez also sees issue with his captaincy.

Ramiz proved to be more clueless than Mani to start with. Needs to be sacked ASP.

 

[HappyWarsFan]

Where

Are

You

Now!

Still agree with my original point.