Is Javed Miandad the world's second greatest batsman and Asia's No.1 of his era?

[Ab Fan]

It's Your Thinking

It is the general consensus and that's why no one rates Javed better than Gavaskar, not just Indians.

 

[Napa]

Easily ahead of Gavasker when you factor in ODIs and not many will rate Chappell and Border as superior batsmen. You are definitely allowed to disagree though.

Any sort of attention to Gavaskar's ODI record is silly as India actually played its first ODI more than 3 years after Gavaskar's debut.

 

[Mute Witness]

People tend to down play Javed's greatness due to his ordinary average against the West Indies, but that's a very narrow lens to view things. Javed's true genius lied in clutch performances. His World cup record is phenomenal, and his ability to chase was the best in its time. Critics talk of an inflated home record, but he was key in Pakistan securing away Test Series victories in India, England and oh so nearly the mighty West Indies. More often than not, Javed scored when it mattered, including match winning knocks in the Semi Final and Final of a World cup. Even that six(with paper thin bats, instead of these hammers) was the last bowl of a tournament final, against arch rivals and then world champions, while hunting down the target with a number eleven at the other end. As clutch as they come. Across formats Javed was a force, and for that he is worthy of great recognition.

 

[Monsee]

Any sort of attention to Gavaskar's ODI record is silly as India actually played its first ODI more than 3 years after Gavaskar's debut.

What in the world does that supposed to mean or matter? This way, all those who were in Indian W T20 team in 2007, should we not look at their T20 careers as well?

After Gavaskar scored a century (finally) in his last ODI innings against NZ, I have seen some Indians in past, debate that when he wanted to, he could play the shots as well!

Anywho, he had a fairly long career in ODI's (not as long as his famous 36* innings in 1975 WC though), and it was pretty dull and drab...so, if one makes a comparison of the two batsmen while looking at both Tests and ODIs...Miandad comes out head and shoulders ahead!

 

[Napa]

What in the world does that supposed to mean or matter?

It means that ODIs became popular and respected much later than Gavaskar started playing cricket. It is not something he developed his game around.

This way, all those who were in Indian W T20 team in 2007, should we not look at their T20 careers as well?

T20s are a lot closer to ODIs than either format is to Tests. The approach to Tests is entirely different. In Tests you put the highest price on your wickets, and run rate is largely irrelevant.

Anyway, any comparison of Miandad with any other batsman should take into account his 78.1 average at home and 38.0 average abroad before the introduction of neutral umpires, after which his average at home fell to 39.9. Other than Pakistanis, this is a factor for everybody (especially Australians and Indians) when they rate Miandad, and saying things like "my land, my rules" made it pretty blatant.

 

[Darkrai]

Miandad never knew how it felt to be not a legend, because his average never went below 50. He played with mortals. It took some ATG many matches to score 100s or get that average above 50, but Miandad began as a legend and retired as a legend...enough said.

 

[Hawkeye]

Miandad never knew how it felt to be not a legend, because his average never went below 50. He played with mortals. It took some ATG many matches to score 100s or get that average above 50, but Miandad began as a legend and retired as a legend...enough said.

Not many can claim to have that good batting performances.

Average never dropping below 50.

And that too in one of the toughest eras for modern batting.

 

[leg-side-flick]

Javed Miandad........ Tiger at Home, Lamb abroad..... Lamb with a attitude, I must add....

 

[ex-q-zit]

Viv Richards has grown up playing those fast bowlers day in and day out. Doubt if playing against the w Indies bowlers would have made a dent to his stats

 

[Abdullah Rabbani]

Viv Richards has grown up playing those fast bowlers day in and day out. Doubt if playing against the w Indies bowlers would have made a dent to his stats

Then he finish as Greg Chappel,
One more thing sunil gavasker have 62 sr in odi he is miles behind than javed

 

[mystical man]

Yes after Viv Richard's he stand's 2nd best batsman of his era as overall in test and odi we have seen many batsman who are specialist of one format limited batsman are great in both format's,

His counterpart's are hyped so much than him but records are different when they stand in two formats, he have many exceptional records that made him best 2nd batsman of his era...

Youngest batsman to score test century on debut that time 19 yeras and 119 day's.
Youngest batsman to score double century at 19 years and 140 day's.
Only player average over 50 throughout Test career.
Scored 1083 runs in 33 matches @ average of 43.32 in Six World Cup tournaments.
Holds the world record for the maximum number of consecutive half centuries in One Day Internationals - 9.
5th most double hundreds in test history - 6 DH.
Double centuries against 5/7 of the teams has played against.

TEST 124 Matches, 8832 runs @ 52.57, 23 centuries and 43 fifties, six ducks. A best of 280*.

Average 58.21in home away 46.38 in Tests

ODI 233 Matches, 7381 runs @ 41.70 , 8 centuries and 50 fifties. A best of 135.

Average 47.05 in home away 40.70 in ODI

Average Counterpart's Of That Era.

Viv Richard's Test: 50.2 ODI: 47.0
Sunil Gavaskar Test: 51.5 ODI: 35.1
Allan Border Test: 50.6 ODI: 30.6
Greg Chappel Test: 53.9 ODI: 40.2
Geoffrey Boycott Test: 47.7 ODI: 36.1
Ian Botham Test: 33.5 ODI: 29.2
David Gower Test: 44.2 ODI: 30.8
Graham Gooch Test: 43.6 ODI: 37.00
David Lloyd Test: 42.5 ODI: 40.7
D Haynes Test: 42.3 ODI: 41.4
Martin Crowe Test: 45.4 ODI: 38.5
Gordon Greenidge Test: 44.7 ODI: 44.3
Zaheer Abbas Test: 44.8 ODI: 47.6
Glenn Turner Test: 44.7 ODI: 47.0
M Amarnath Test: 42.5 ODI: 30.5


We Don't Need To Compare Of Different Era Players But Comparing With There Counterpart's Tell How They Good Are.

After This Stat's What Your Thinking Of World's 2nd Best Batsman And Asia's No1 ???

Javed Miandad King , Street Fighter, Warrior, Champion And Don...

From Miandad to Babar we can see the level And extent to which Pakistan cricket has regressed completely...

 

[Buffet]

It means that ODIs became popular and respected much later than Gavaskar started playing cricket. It is not something he developed his game around.



T20s are a lot closer to ODIs than either format is to Tests. The approach to Tests is entirely different. In Tests you put the highest price on your wickets, and run rate is largely irrelevant.

Anyway, any comparison of Miandad with any other batsman should take into account his 78.1 average at home and 38.0 average abroad before the introduction of neutral umpires, after which his average at home fell to 39.9. Other than Pakistanis, this is a factor for everybody (especially Australians and Indians) when they rate Miandad, and saying things like "my land, my rules" made it pretty blatant.

What's the average at home and away for his peers before neutral umpires came in picture?

 

[Bilal7]

It means that ODIs became popular and respected much later than Gavaskar started playing cricket. It is not something he developed his game around.



T20s are a lot closer to ODIs than either format is to Tests. The approach to Tests is entirely different. In Tests you put the highest price on your wickets, and run rate is largely irrelevant.

Anyway, any comparison of Miandad with any other batsman should take into account his 78.1 average at home and 38.0 average abroad before the introduction of neutral umpires, after which his average at home fell to 39.9. Other than Pakistanis, this is a factor for everybody (especially Australians and Indians) when they rate Miandad, and saying things like "my land, my rules" made it pretty blatant.

This is a silly argument and actually makes Gavasker look worse. Plenty of players from his era adapted their game to become fantastic ODI players, Gavasker not being able to do the same makes him less adaptable than those players.

ODIs and T20s are just as similar today as tests and ODIs were in Gavasker's time. He simply did not have the tools to succeed in ODIs and therefore, is slightly behind Miandad - both formats considered.

 

[Bilal7]

Miandad's home average should be lower but his away average should be higher. Biased umpires were definitely a thing and hurt Pakistan when they went overseas, just like they hurt teams that came to Pakistan. This is why Imran campaigned to introduce neutral umpires to the sport.

 

[Napa]

What's the average at home and away for his peers before neutral umpires came in picture?

Gavaskar was 49 at home and 51 away:

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...s;type=batting

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...s;type=batting

 

[Napa]

This is a silly argument and actually makes Gavasker look worse. Plenty of players from his era adapted their game to become fantastic ODI players, Gavasker not being able to do the same makes him less adaptable than those players.

ODIs and T20s are just as similar today as tests and ODIs were in Gavasker's time. He simply did not have the tools to succeed in ODIs and therefore, is slightly behind Miandad - both formats considered.

Gavaskar's contemporaries were Gooch, Border, Chappell and Richards. And if you go back a bit you could also include Boycott and Lloyd. Other than Richards, none of these batsmen really did anything notable in ODIs. Gavaskar's ODI avg was 35, these gentlemen all hovered around 35 with the exceptions being Border with 31 and Chappell with 40. Richards was an exception, he was not a classical Test batsmen who put a high value on his wicket, instead he attacked the bowlers. So the transition to ODIs was natural for him. Richard's mentality was okay for very strong WI side in Tests, but India's weakness against pace and lack of penetrative bowling meant that Gavaskar's dogged defense at the top of the innings was vital for India.

Miandad's home average should be lower but his away average should be higher. Biased umpires were definitely a thing and hurt Pakistan when they went overseas, just like they hurt teams that came to Pakistan. This is why Imran campaigned to introduce neutral umpires to the sport.

Respect IK for doing so.

 

[Monsee]

It means that ODIs became popular and respected much later than Gavaskar started playing cricket. It is not something he developed his game around.



This also means, he was slow to react to the demands of the modern game, something others like Zaheer, Imran etc. were easily able to do so...so his lack of adaptability is being appreciated here by you, noiice!





T20s are a lot closer to ODIs than either format is to Tests. The approach to Tests is entirely different. In Tests you put the highest price on your wickets, and run rate is largely irrelevant.

Anyway, any comparison of Miandad with any other batsman should take into account his 78.1 average at home and 38.0 average abroad before the introduction of neutral umpires, after which his average at home fell to 39.9. Other than Pakistanis, this is a factor for everybody (especially Australians and Indians) when they rate Miandad, and saying things like "my land, my rules" made it pretty blatant.

Anyone, other than Indians, will also take in to acct that Midnadad was on his last legs around the time neutral umpires came in to the fore; barely played what 3-4 more years of tests and also survived a life threatning injury as well (hit by Lilleee in an exhibition match (I think) right near the side of his head). He was out of the game for a while and all!

But then again, as an Indian, you hear one person say it, and it is against a Pakistani great; it becomes your favorite acitivity to go demean him.

 

[Monsee]

Javed Miandad........ Tiger at Home, Lamb abroad..... Lamb with a attitude, I must add....

Mianda's Stats giving a shut up call to you and your fellow clue less Indian fans:


Career averages:
Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave 100 50 0
Overall 1976-1993 124 189 21 8832 280* 52.57 23 43 6 Profile
Opposition Home 1976-1993 64 103 8 4351 271 45.80 9 26 6

If you take out SriLanka out of the above filtered ones, his average actually goes up to 47.12.

Now do you want any other minnows removed e.g. India?

P.S. Did not remove Zimbabwe since they were a pretty good team against whom India could not win a series till the later years of Dravid/tendulkar

 

[Monsee]

Also, to add to the above post, to all the Clueless Brigade, Miandad played a total of (earth shattering noise in back ground) 12 tests after the introduction of Neutral Umpires in 1989; this out of a grand total of 124 does not give anyone a clear indication that his stats dipped due to the neutral umpires. It more logically points to the fact that he was on his last legs and introduction of neutral umpires just aided his down fall a bit because let's face it, even to this day, if a home umpire ends up officiating, he will definitely be more sympathetic to hisfellow countrymen

 

[Napa]

Anyone, other than Indians, will also take in to acct that Midnadad was on his last legs around the time neutral umpires came in to the fore; barely played what 3-4 more years of tests and also survived a life threatning injury as well (hit by Lilleee in an exhibition match (I think) right near the side of his head). He was out of the game for a while and all!

Wrong on multiple counts. Neutral umpires were introduced in 1987. Miandad played his last Test in 1993. Also, he was hardly on his "last legs". His average abroad actually went up with neutral umpires.

You haven't addressed the discrepancy between the differences in his averages at home and abroad pre-neutral umpires.

But then again, as an Indian, you hear one person say it, and it is against a Pakistani great; it becomes your favorite acitivity to go demean him.

If a guy says "my land, my rules" and players from multiple countries complain about him, then these facts enter into a conversation about him.

This also means, he was slow to react to the demands of the modern game, something others like Zaheer, Imran etc. were easily able to do so...so his lack of adaptability is being appreciated here by you, noiice!

There is no point in comparing Zaheer who scored 7.5 K runs in 140 international matches to Gavaskar who scored 13.2 K runs in 233 international matches. Also, Zaheer's Test average abroad was 37 compared to Gavaskar's 52. Add 5 to Gavaskar for being an opener and it is obvious that Zaheer and Gavaskar belong in different categories.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...;home_or_away=2;template=results;type=batting

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...;home_or_away=2;template=results;type=batting

Also IK had an average of 33 in ODIs, so I am not sure what you are trying to prove by mentioning him.

 

[Napa]

Also, to add to the above post, to all the Clueless Brigade, Miandad played a total of (earth shattering noise in back ground) 12 tests after the introduction of Neutral Umpires in 1989; this out of a grand total of 124 does not give anyone a clear indication that his stats dipped due to the neutral umpires. It more logically points to the fact that he was on his last legs and introduction of neutral umpires just aided his down fall a bit because let's face it, even to this day, if a home umpire ends up officiating, he will definitely be more sympathetic to hisfellow countrymen

Neutral umpires were first used in the Lahore Test played in Nov 1986, not 1989. All the "facts" that you mention based on this are therefore wrong.

Name calling like "Clueless Brigade" is only a sign that you are unable to address the arguments presented which are based on numbers.

 

[Napa]

Wrong on multiple counts. <b>Neutral umpires were introduced in 1987.</b> Miandad played his last Test in 1993. Also, he was hardly on his "last legs". His average abroad actually went up with neutral umpires.

You haven't addressed the discrepancy between the differences in his averages at home and abroad pre-neutral umpires.



If a guy says "my land, my rules" and players from multiple countries complain about him, then these facts enter into a conversation about him.



There is no point in comparing Zaheer who scored 7.5 K runs in 140 international matches to Gavaskar who scored 13.2 K runs in 233 international matches. Also, Zaheer's Test average abroad was 37 compared to Gavaskar's 52. Add 5 to Gavaskar for being an opener and it is obvious that Zaheer and Gavaskar belong in different categories.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...;home_or_away=2;template=results;type=batting

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...;home_or_away=2;template=results;type=batting

Also IK had an average of 33 in ODIs, so I am not sure what you are trying to prove by mentioning him.

*Neutral umpires were introduced in Nov, 1986. They were not used when England and Australia visited next, but were used again when India visited.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/511175.html

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/team/series_results.html?class=1;id=7;type=team

 

[Monsee]

Neutral umpires were first used in the Lahore Test played in Nov 1986, not 1989. All the "facts" that you mention based on this are therefore wrong.

Name calling like "Clueless Brigade" is only a sign that you are unable to address the arguments presented which are based on numbers.

Here you go, game, set, match...there was a reason why I used the above name:

Since 1986 till the end of his career in 1993, Miandad played 23 tests at home with only 6 played with Neutral Umpires, rest were officiated by Pak umpires (both of them).

Funny thing is that home umpires gave him out LBW 5 times, yes 5 times in 17 tests (oh my God what happened to the so-called "my land, my rules" idiotic narrative introduced by some lying Indian players)? Must be the same genes as the ones who came up with the 'Baap Baap hota hai' lie as well!

In those 6 matches against WI and India, that were officiated by neutral Umpires, he batted in 9 innings only and guess what, Sky fell through because he was out LBW only one time (must be Pakistani Umpires with getup as Neutrals) in 9 innings. He scored 424 runs in 9 innings with an average of 47.11. 6 Tests against a huge sample of home tests is not significant enough to warrant any assumptions about his failures.

Ok, what other theories you need to come up with next, Neutral Umpires were actually robots controlled by PCB or something?

 

[Napa]

Here you go, game, set, match...there was a reason why I used the above name:

Since 1986 till the end of his career in 1993, Miandad played 23 tests at home with only 6 played with Neutral Umpires, rest were officiated by Pak umpires (both of them).

<b>Funny thing is that home umpires gave him out LBW 5 times, yes 5 times in 17 tests (oh my God what happened to the so-called "my land, my rules" idiotic narrative introduced by some lying Indian players)?</b> Must be the same genes as the ones who came up with the 'Baap Baap hota hai' lie as well!

In those 6 matches against WI and India, that were officiated by neutral Umpires, he batted in 9 innings only and guess what, Sky fell through because he was out LBW only one time (must be Pakistani Umpires with getup as Neutrals) in 9 innings. He scored 424 runs in 9 innings with an average of 47.11. 6 Tests against a huge sample of home tests is not significant enough to warrant any assumptions about his failures.

Ok, what other theories you need to come up with next, Neutral Umpires were actually robots controlled by PCB or something?

You are probably too thick to understand that the umpires knew the game was up when the captain of their home team was himself taking the lead in replacing them. Those with a very shallow understanding of human nature believe that humans will keep acting in the same fashion as the situation changes.

Miandad's average actually went up abroad during the same period. Also I see you studiously ignore addressing the discrepancy between 78 at home and 38 abroad.

 

[Ab Fan]

Miandad was an ATG but an average of 29 vs WI, the best team of his era, means he wasn't really an undisputed top tier ATG like Gavaskar.

Gavaskar has a better away average, played as an opener, better average outside Asia and has dominated WI both home and away. He also has longevity, played some legendary innings all his career and hence, there is no doubt that he was a tier above Miandad. There is not much in it to debate about.

Among the batsmen from the 80s, Viv is a tier 1, Gavaskar and Greg a tier 1.5, Miandad and AB a tier 2. I rate AB higher between the two due to his away performance and the fact that he was such a great man under crisis and the way he led a weak team was phenomenal. However, both are tier 2 as batsmen IMO.

Performance against best team is not everything but it is what seperates Donald and Pollock from McGrath, Ambrose and Wasim and same applies here.

 

[Napa]

Among the batsmen from the 80s, Viv is a tier 1, Gavaskar and Greg a tier 1.5,

Gavaskar finished his career with more runs, more centuries and a higher average than Richards. Add the fact that he was an opener which counts for about 5 more runs, and he faced better bowlers than Viv (who didn't have to face the WI pacers).

Viv only outperforms Gavaskar in S/R and was a better ODI batsman. Gavaskar was significantly better in Tests.

 

[Ab Fan]

Gavaskar finished his career with more runs, more centuries and a higher average than Richards. Add the fact that he was an opener which counts for about 5 more runs, and he faced better bowlers than Viv (who didn't have to face the WI pacers).

Viv only outperforms Gavaskar in S/R and was a better ODI batsman. Gavaskar was significantly better in Tests.

Perhaps the SR and fear factor is the reason Viv is rated higher than Gavaskar. I don't believe in these seperate rating of tests and ODIs. It is what they brought up as a batsmen whatever format it be.

 

[Abdullah Rabbani]

Miandad was an ATG but an average of 29 vs WI, the best team of his era, means he wasn't really an undisputed top tier ATG like Gavaskar.

Gavaskar has a better away average, played as an opener, better average outside Asia and has dominated WI both home and away. He also has longevity, played some legendary innings all his career and hence, there is no doubt that he was a tier above Miandad. There is not much in it to debate about.

Among the batsmen from the 80s, Viv is a tier 1, Gavaskar and Greg a tier 1.5, Miandad and AB a tier 2. I rate AB higher between the two due to his away performance and the fact that he was such a great man under crisis and the way he led a weak team was phenomenal. However, both are tier 2 as batsmen IMO.

Performance against best team is not everything but it is what seperates Donald and Pollock from McGrath, Ambrose and Wasim and same applies here.

When talk about overall format's Among the batsmen from the 80s, Viv is a tier 1, Javed and Greg a tier 1.5 because they are good in both formats, Then Gavaskar and AB a tier 2 poor in odis miles behind then tier 1 and 1.5...

Don't talk about just test's those player are rated high who are good in all fomats...

 

[Napa]

Perhaps the SR and fear factor is the reason Viv is rated higher than Gavaskar.

While fans may cringe at the sight of an opposing batsman hitting sixes, for a bowler who isn't mentally weak a batsman who averages 50 is not to be feared any more than one who averages 51. I mean, the bowlers know at the end of the day it is the total runs scored which counts and not how many boundaries were hit.

I remember Richards launching into Madan Lal in the WC 1983 final. The Indian fans were devastated for a while, but Madan Lal kept plugging away and had the last laugh and the trophy in his closet the next day.

 

[Ab Fan]

When talk about overall format's Among the batsmen from the 80s, Viv is a tier 1, Javed and Greg a tier 1.5 because they are good in both formats, Then Gavaskar and AB a tier 2 poor in odis miles behind then tier 1 and 1.5...

Don't talk about just test's those player are rated high who are good in all fomats...

Okay. You have a fine point but using this logic, won't you rate AB de Villiers a superior batsmen to Allan Border, Steve Waugh and Rahul Dravid since former is only a level below the three in tests but miles ahead in ODIs? Or even from two similar eras, ie., Dean Jones a better batsmen than Allan Border??

 

[Ab Fan]

While fans may cringe at the sight of an opposing batsman hitting sixes, for a bowler who isn't mentally weak <B>a batsman who averages 50 is not to be feared any more than one who averages 51</B>. I mean, the bowlers know at the end of the day it is the total runs scored which counts and not how many boundaries were hit.

I remember Richards launching into Madan Lal in the WC 1983 final. The Indian fans were devastated for a while, but Madan Lal kept plugging away and had the last laugh and the trophy in his closet the next day.

Disagree with this. Brian, Sachin or Ricky averages 51-53-52 over their career as compared to Jacques who averages 55, but I know as a bowler who would they fear more. Averages don't mean everything.

 

[Ab Fan]

Okay. You have a fine point but using this logic, won't you rate AB de Villiers a superior batsmen to Allan Border, Steve Waugh and Rahul Dravid since former is only a level below the three in tests but miles ahead in ODIs? Or even from two similar eras, ie., Dean Jones a better batsmen than Allan Border??

And ABD is from current era, where tests are going down while ODIs upping. So, present AB > older AB??

 

[Abdullah Rabbani]

Okay. You have a fine point but using this logic, won't you rate AB de Villiers a superior batsmen to Allan Border, Steve Waugh and Rahul Dravid since former is only a level below the three in tests but miles ahead in ODIs? Or even from two similar eras, ie., Dean Jones a better batsmen than Allan Border??

Bro on the start of thread i mentioned don't compare player's of different era compare with there counterparts of that era give result how good they are.

Why i can't compare AB De Villiers with kohli or hashim amla and rahul with m yousaf , d jones a very good batsman of odis but played not much tests compare to steve waugh

 

[Ab Fan]

Bro on the start of thread i mentioned don't compare player's of different era compare with there counterparts of that era give result how good they are.

Why i can't compare AB De Villiers with kohli or hashim amla and rahul with m yousaf , d jones a very good batsman of odis but played not much tests compare to steve waugh

Dean Jones actually was one of the best odi batsmen of his era and a very good test batsmen.Anways, if you say same era, then even there if we use the logic, Greenidge will be better than Border? Both from same era,Greenidge a great test batsmen and a great ODI batsmen. Border low tier ATG batsmen but mediocre ODI player.

It is closer but I an sure you are getting the point. It applies to many such examples and for same era as well.

 

[Napa]

Disagree with this. Brian, Sachin or Ricky averages 51-53-52 over their career as compared to Jacques who averages 55, but I know as a bowler who would they fear more. Averages don't mean everything.

Numbers mean everything to bowlers, like I said at the end of the day the bowler only cares about the total runs scored against him, not whether the runs came as singles or boundaries. This absolutely has to be true as a win or a loss is determined by total runs, not boundaries scored.

The reason Jacques may not get the same respect as, say SRT, is that he scored a lot of runs against weaker teams but wasn't all that great against stronger teams. The strong teams SRT and Jacques played the most against were Australia and England (39 and 32 and 29 and 31 Tests respectively). Jacques averaged 43 against these 2, whereas SRT averaged 54.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...orderby=default;template=results;type=batting

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...=1;opposition=2;template=results;type=batting

 

[Abdullah Rabbani]

Dean Jones actually was one of the best odi batsmen of his era and a very good test batsmen.Anways, if you say same era, then even there if we use the logic, Greenidge will be better than Border? Both from same era,Greenidge a great test batsmen and a great ODI batsmen. Border low tier ATG batsmen but mediocre ODI player.

It is closer but I an sure you are getting the point. It applies to many such examples and for same era as well.

I rate greenidge very high but don't know why people not

 

[Ab Fan]

Numbers mean everything to bowlers, like I said at the end of the day the bowler only cares about the total runs scored against him, not whether the runs came as singles or boundaries. This absolutely has to be true as a win or a loss is determined by total runs, not boundaries scored.

The reason Jacques may not get the same respect as, say SRT, is that he scored a lot of runs against weaker teams but wasn't all that great against stronger teams. The strong teams SRT and Jacques played the most against were Australia and England (39 and 32 and 29 and 31 Tests respectively). Jacques averaged 43 against these 2, whereas SRT averaged 54.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...orderby=default;template=results;type=batting

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...=1;opposition=2;template=results;type=batting

I didn't mean singles or boundaries, but how fast those runs came.

There are few players only who take the game away in one session and Viv was one.

 

[Napa]

I didn't mean singles or boundaries, but how fast those runs came.

There are few players only who take the game away in one session and Viv was one.

I would say that Gavaskar's lesser S/R and therefore longer innings (as measured by the number of balls faced) was invaluable for India as it protected the middle order from the new ball. The lack of an opener who could wear down the opening bowlers was felt acutely by India in their recent tours of SA and England.

In Test cricket (the only format Gavaskar prepared for in his formative years), it didn't matter if you scored a century in one session or two. So I do not see any great benefit to "who take the game away in one session".

 

[Hitman]

Here you go, game, set, match...there was a reason why I used the above name:

Since 1986 till the end of his career in 1993, Miandad played 23 tests at home with only 6 played with Neutral Umpires, rest were officiated by Pak umpires (both of them).

Funny thing is that home umpires gave him out LBW 5 times, yes 5 times in 17 tests (oh my God what happened to the so-called "my land, my rules" idiotic narrative introduced by some lying Indian players)? Must be the same genes as the ones who came up with the 'Baap Baap hota hai' lie as well!

In those 6 matches against WI and India, that were officiated by neutral Umpires, he batted in 9 innings only and guess what, Sky fell through because he was out LBW only one time (must be Pakistani Umpires with getup as Neutrals) in 9 innings. He scored 424 runs in 9 innings with an average of 47.11. 6 Tests against a huge sample of home tests is not significant enough to warrant any assumptions about his failures.

Ok, what other theories you need to come up with next, Neutral Umpires were actually robots controlled by PCB or something?

It's always better to check the facts before making a fool out of yourself. It were the Aussie players whom Miandad said that, and it's Steve Waugh who mentions that in his autobiography, not some Indian player.

 

[MenInG]

# Miandad made his international debut during Pakistan's One-Day International (ODI) match against West Indies in June 1975.

# He received his maiden cap for Pakistan in the longest format of the game during a Test match against New Zealand in October 1976.

# Miandad's ODI career spanned from 1975 to 1996 in which he appeared in 233 ODIs and scored 7,381 runs at an average of 41.70.

# Meanwhile, the former Pakistan batsman appeared in 124 matches in the longest format of the game, notching up 8,832 runs at an average of 52.57.

# Miandad's highest Test score of 280 came against arch-rivals India in 1983 in Hyderabad. It was one of his six double centuries--which is the most scored by any Pakistan batsman.

# Miandad finished as the highest run-scorer in the World Cups with a total of 1,083 runs from 35 ODIs he played at the prestigious event at an average of 43.32.

# The former Pakistan batsman also retired from the game as the the highest run-scorer for the country in Test cricket before being overtaken by Younis Khan.

# Miandad continues to remain second highest-scorer for Pakistan till date. He also has the best average among those having scored more than 3,000 Test runs.

# The former Pakistan coach, who was one of the shining light for Pakistan in their World Cup winning campaign in 1992, became the first cricketer to feature in six editions of the showpiece event.

# He is currently the sixth highest run-scorer for his country in the 50-over format of the game.

# Miandad had led Pakistan in 34 matches, winning 14 of them while losing six.

# He also became the youngest player to score double century in Test cricket when he smashed a blistering knock of 208 runs against New Zealand in 1976 at the age of 19 years and 140 days.

https://zeenews.india.com/cricket/h...es to remain second,more than 3,000 Test runs.

 

[therealAB]

Viv and Chappell are both better all format players
Gavaskar and Border are both better st test cricket

 

[jeetu]

Top Test Batsman's record during Miandad's span (1976-1993)
Overall
[table=width: 500, class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Player [/td][td]Span [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Runs [/td][td]Ave [/td][td]100 [/td][td]50 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]GS Chappell (AUS) [/td][td]1976-1984 [/td][td]50 [/td][td]4233 [/td][td]54.97 [/td][td]13 [/td][td]18 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Javed Miandad (PAK) [/td][td]1976-1993 [/td][td]124 [/td][td]8832 [/td][td]52.57 [/td][td]23 [/td][td]43 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]IVA Richards (WI) [/td][td]1976-1991 [/td][td]111 [/td][td]8069 [/td][td]52.05 [/td][td]23 [/td][td]44 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SM Gavaskar (INDIA) [/td][td]1976-1987 [/td][td]108 [/td][td]8655 [/td][td]51.51 [/td][td]29 [/td][td]36 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]AR Border (AUS) [/td][td]1978-1993 [/td][td]151 [/td][td]10878 [/td][td]51.07 [/td][td]27 [/td][td]62 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]MA Taylor (AUS) [/td][td]1989-1993 [/td][td]50 [/td][td]4044 [/td][td]48.72 [/td][td]12 [/td][td]22 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]CH Lloyd (WI) [/td][td]1976-1985 [/td][td]64 [/td][td]4173 [/td][td]48.52 [/td][td]10 [/td][td]24 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Zaheer Abbas (PAK) [/td][td]1976-1985 [/td][td]61 [/td][td]4013 [/td][td]47.77 [/td][td]10 [/td][td]18 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]G Boycott (ENG) [/td][td]1977-1982 [/td][td]45 [/td][td]3535 [/td][td]47.77 [/td][td]10 [/td][td]16 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]MD Crowe (NZ) [/td][td]1982-1993 [/td][td]67 [/td][td]4850 [/td][td]47.08 [/td][td]15 [/td][td]16 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Shoaib Mohammad (PAK) [/td][td]1983-1993 [/td][td]42 [/td][td]2622 [/td][td]46.82 [/td][td]7 [/td][td]12 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]RB Richardson (WI) [/td][td]1983-1993 [/td][td]72 [/td][td]5282 [/td][td]46.74 [/td][td]15 [/td][td]24 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]DM Jones (AUS) [/td][td]1984-1992 [/td][td]52 [/td][td]3631 [/td][td]46.55 [/td][td]11 [/td][td]14 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]DC Boon (AUS) [/td][td]1984-1993 [/td][td]84 [/td][td]6156 [/td][td]46.28 [/td][td]18 [/td][td]27 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]RA Smith (ENG) [/td][td]1988-1993 [/td][td]45 [/td][td]3237 [/td][td]46.24 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]22 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]CG Greenidge (WI) [/td][td]1976-1991 [/td][td]101 [/td][td]7176 [/td][td]46 [/td][td]18 [/td][td]32 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]AH Jones (NZ) [/td][td]1987-1993 [/td][td]34 [/td][td]2600 [/td][td]45.61 [/td][td]7 [/td][td]8 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]M Azharuddin (INDIA) [/td][td]1984-1993 [/td][td]58 [/td][td]3650 [/td][td]45.06 [/td][td]12 [/td][td]12 [/td][/tr]
[/table]

Away
[table=width: 500, class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Player [/td][td]Span [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Runs [/td][td]Ave [/td][td]100 [/td][td]50 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]AR Border (AUS) [/td][td]1979-1993 [/td][td]67 [/td][td]5279 [/td][td]57.38 [/td][td]14 [/td][td]28 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]IVA Richards (WI) [/td][td]1976-1991 [/td][td]63 [/td][td]4933 [/td][td]53.61 [/td][td]12 [/td][td]30 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]M Amarnath (INDIA) [/td][td]1976-1986 [/td][td]37 [/td][td]3008 [/td][td]51.86 [/td][td]9 [/td][td]17 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]MA Taylor (AUS) [/td][td]1989-1993 [/td][td]24 [/td][td]2013 [/td][td]49.09 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]12 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SM Gavaskar (INDIA) [/td][td]1976-1986 [/td][td]50 [/td][td]3920 [/td][td]49 [/td][td]13 [/td][td]16 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]DI Gower (ENG) [/td][td]1978-1991 [/td][td]52 [/td][td]3777 [/td][td]46.06 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]20 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Javed Miandad (PAK) [/td][td]1976-1993 [/td][td]64 [/td][td]4351 [/td][td]45.8 [/td][td]9 [/td][td]26 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]CH Lloyd (WI) [/td][td]1976-1985 [/td][td]40 [/td][td]2466 [/td][td]44.83 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]14 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]DM Jones (AUS) [/td][td]1984-1992 [/td][td]23 [/td][td]1587 [/td][td]44.08 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]7 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]CG Greenidge (WI) [/td][td]1976-1990 [/td][td]55 [/td][td]3967 [/td][td]44.07 [/td][td]10 [/td][td]17 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]MD Crowe (NZ) [/td][td]1983-1993 [/td][td]36 [/td][td]2479 [/td][td]43.49 [/td][td]7 [/td][td]9 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]HA Gomes (WI) [/td][td]1976-1987 [/td][td]37 [/td][td]2167 [/td][td]42.49 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]9 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Saleem Malik (PAK) [/td][td]1983-1993 [/td][td]33 [/td][td]1709 [/td][td]40.69 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]11 [/td][/tr]
[/table]

From stats it looks like Miandad was 4th best test batsman of his era. I'll put him behind Border , Viv and Gavaskar who like Miandad played over 100 test matches from 1976 to 1993 and still maintained great record.

 

[jeetu]

Best ODI players during Javed Miandad's era (1975-1996)

[table=width: 600, class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Player [/td][td]Span [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Runs [/td][td]Ave [/td][td]SR [/td][td]100 [/td][td]50 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]IVA Richards (WI) [/td][td]1975-1991 [/td][td]187 [/td][td]6721 [/td][td]47 [/td][td]90.2 [/td][td]11 [/td][td]45 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]BC Lara (WI) [/td][td]1990-1996 [/td][td]107 [/td][td]4394 [/td][td]45.77 [/td][td]77.7 [/td][td]9 [/td][td]29 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]CG Greenidge (WI) [/td][td]1975-1991 [/td][td]128 [/td][td]5134 [/td][td]45.03 [/td][td]64.92 [/td][td]11 [/td][td]31 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]DM Jones (AUS) [/td][td]1984-1994 [/td][td]164 [/td][td]6068 [/td][td]44.61 [/td][td]72.56 [/td][td]7 [/td][td]46 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Javed Miandad (PAK) [/td][td]1975-1996 [/td][td]233 [/td][td]7381 [/td][td]41.7 [/td][td]67.01 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]50 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]DL Haynes (WI) [/td][td]1978-1994 [/td][td]238 [/td][td]8648 [/td][td]41.37 [/td][td]63.09 [/td][td]17 [/td][td]57 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SR Tendulkar (INDIA) [/td][td]1989-1996 [/td][td]134 [/td][td]4823 [/td][td]40.87 [/td][td]82 [/td][td]10 [/td][td]31 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]NS Sidhu (INDIA) [/td][td]1987-1996 [/td][td]109 [/td][td]3948 [/td][td]40.7 [/td][td]70.47 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]31 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]GR Marsh (AUS) [/td][td]1986-1992 [/td][td]117 [/td][td]4357 [/td][td]39.97 [/td][td]55.93 [/td][td]9 [/td][td]22 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]AJ Lamb (ENG) [/td][td]1982-1992 [/td][td]122 [/td][td]4010 [/td][td]39.31 [/td][td]75.54 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]26 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Saeed Anwar (PAK) [/td][td]1989-1996 [/td][td]118 [/td][td]4135 [/td][td]39 [/td][td]82.25 [/td][td]11 [/td][td]17 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]MD Crowe (NZ) [/td][td]1982-1995 [/td][td]143 [/td][td]4704 [/td][td]38.55 [/td][td]72.63 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]34 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Inzamam-ul-Haq (PAK) [/td][td]1991-1996 [/td][td]121 [/td][td]3809 [/td][td]38.09 [/td][td]74.74 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]26 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]DC Boon (AUS) [/td][td]1984-1995 [/td][td]181 [/td][td]5964 [/td][td]37.04 [/td][td]65.13 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]37 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]ME Waugh (AUS) [/td][td]1988-1996 [/td][td]124 [/td][td]4069 [/td][td]36.99 [/td][td]77.92 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]26 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]GA Gooch (ENG) [/td][td]1976-1995 [/td][td]125 [/td][td]4290 [/td][td]36.98 [/td][td]61.88 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]23 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]WJ Cronje (SA) [/td][td]1992-1996 [/td][td]100 [/td][td]2948 [/td][td]36.85 [/td][td]70.89 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]18 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]M Azharuddin (INDIA) [/td][td]1985-1996 [/td][td]232 [/td][td]6330 [/td][td]36.58 [/td][td]74.36 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]36 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]AH Jones (NZ) [/td][td]1987-1995 [/td][td]87 [/td][td]2784 [/td][td]35.69 [/td][td]57.86 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]25 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]A Ranatunga (SL) [/td][td]1982-1996 [/td][td]200 [/td][td]5425 [/td][td]35.45 [/td][td]78.88 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]34 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SM Gavaskar (INDIA) [/td][td]1975-1987 [/td][td]106 [/td][td]3044 [/td][td]35.39 [/td][td]62.02 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]27 [/td][/tr]
[/table]

Judging from stats , Viv was clearly ahead. Then there is almost a tie between Haynes and Miandad.

 

[therealAB]

Best ODI players during Javed Miandad's era (1975-1996)

[table=width: 600, class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Player [/td][td]Span [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Runs [/td][td]Ave [/td][td]SR [/td][td]100 [/td][td]50 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]IVA Richards (WI) [/td][td]1975-1991 [/td][td]187 [/td][td]6721 [/td][td]47 [/td][td]90.2 [/td][td]11 [/td][td]45 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]BC Lara (WI) [/td][td]1990-1996 [/td][td]107 [/td][td]4394 [/td][td]45.77 [/td][td]77.7 [/td][td]9 [/td][td]29 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]CG Greenidge (WI) [/td][td]1975-1991 [/td][td]128 [/td][td]5134 [/td][td]45.03 [/td][td]64.92 [/td][td]11 [/td][td]31 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]DM Jones (AUS) [/td][td]1984-1994 [/td][td]164 [/td][td]6068 [/td][td]44.61 [/td][td]72.56 [/td][td]7 [/td][td]46 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Javed Miandad (PAK) [/td][td]1975-1996 [/td][td]233 [/td][td]7381 [/td][td]41.7 [/td][td]67.01 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]50 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]DL Haynes (WI) [/td][td]1978-1994 [/td][td]238 [/td][td]8648 [/td][td]41.37 [/td][td]63.09 [/td][td]17 [/td][td]57 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SR Tendulkar (INDIA) [/td][td]1989-1996 [/td][td]134 [/td][td]4823 [/td][td]40.87 [/td][td]82 [/td][td]10 [/td][td]31 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]NS Sidhu (INDIA) [/td][td]1987-1996 [/td][td]109 [/td][td]3948 [/td][td]40.7 [/td][td]70.47 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]31 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]GR Marsh (AUS) [/td][td]1986-1992 [/td][td]117 [/td][td]4357 [/td][td]39.97 [/td][td]55.93 [/td][td]9 [/td][td]22 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]AJ Lamb (ENG) [/td][td]1982-1992 [/td][td]122 [/td][td]4010 [/td][td]39.31 [/td][td]75.54 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]26 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Saeed Anwar (PAK) [/td][td]1989-1996 [/td][td]118 [/td][td]4135 [/td][td]39 [/td][td]82.25 [/td][td]11 [/td][td]17 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]MD Crowe (NZ) [/td][td]1982-1995 [/td][td]143 [/td][td]4704 [/td][td]38.55 [/td][td]72.63 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]34 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Inzamam-ul-Haq (PAK) [/td][td]1991-1996 [/td][td]121 [/td][td]3809 [/td][td]38.09 [/td][td]74.74 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]26 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]DC Boon (AUS) [/td][td]1984-1995 [/td][td]181 [/td][td]5964 [/td][td]37.04 [/td][td]65.13 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]37 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]ME Waugh (AUS) [/td][td]1988-1996 [/td][td]124 [/td][td]4069 [/td][td]36.99 [/td][td]77.92 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]26 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]GA Gooch (ENG) [/td][td]1976-1995 [/td][td]125 [/td][td]4290 [/td][td]36.98 [/td][td]61.88 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]23 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]WJ Cronje (SA) [/td][td]1992-1996 [/td][td]100 [/td][td]2948 [/td][td]36.85 [/td][td]70.89 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]18 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]M Azharuddin (INDIA) [/td][td]1985-1996 [/td][td]232 [/td][td]6330 [/td][td]36.58 [/td][td]74.36 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]36 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]AH Jones (NZ) [/td][td]1987-1995 [/td][td]87 [/td][td]2784 [/td][td]35.69 [/td][td]57.86 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]25 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]A Ranatunga (SL) [/td][td]1982-1996 [/td][td]200 [/td][td]5425 [/td][td]35.45 [/td][td]78.88 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]34 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SM Gavaskar (INDIA) [/td][td]1975-1987 [/td][td]106 [/td][td]3044 [/td][td]35.39 [/td][td]62.02 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]27 [/td][/tr]
[/table]

Judging from stats , Viv was clearly ahead. Then there is almost a tie between Haynes and Miandad.

Why are Haynes/Miandad above Jones, Greenidge, Lara

 

[jeetu]

Why are Haynes/Miandad above Jones, Greenidge, Lara

I went with players who played long and started in 70's. Technically they are ahead, the only reason I discarded Lara and Jones that they debut much later than Miandad. Greenidge played half the number of matches. I made a mistake regarding Haynes , he was slightly ahead of Miandad in ODI's overall based on 100's.

Anyways if people rates these players above Miandad then they are not really wrong either. Its a close call.

Combining both format thread title has good merit.

 

[therealAB]

I went with players who played long and started in 70's. Technically they are ahead, the only reason I discarded Lara and Jones that they debut much later than Miandad. Greenidge played half the number of matches. I made a mistake regarding Haynes , he was slightly ahead of Miandad in ODI's overall based on 100's.

Anyways if people rates these players above Miandad then they are not really wrong either. Its a close call.

Combining both format thread title has good merit.

Ok that makes sense.
For the title, the question is whether Chappell is of the same era, as he is quite clearly above Miandad, who is quite clearly above Border/Gavaskar as all format batsmen

 

[anoop]

This is a silly argument and actually makes Gavasker look worse. Plenty of players from his era adapted their game to become fantastic ODI players, Gavasker not being able to do the same makes him less adaptable than those players.

ODIs and T20s are just as similar today as tests and ODIs were in Gavasker's time. He simply did not have the tools to succeed in ODIs and therefore, is slightly behind Miandad - both formats considered.

Thats not true . Gavaskar did up his game after Odi became famous in India. Gavaskar's for the last 56 matches(he played only 108 matches total) had an average of 45.44. Even his strike rate increased into mid 60's (similar to haynes). He was one of the best openers in Odis in 1985,86,87.

 

[jeetu]

Ok that makes sense.
For the title, the question is whether Chappell is of the same era, as he is quite clearly above Miandad, who is quite clearly above Border/Gavaskar as all format batsmen

Greg Chappell has great and pretty balanced stats. But few things do become noticible on closer inspection.
[table=width: 500, class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Record [/td][td]Span [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Runs [/td][td]Ave [/td][td]100 [/td][td]50 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]home [/td][td]1970-1984 [/td][td]55 [/td][td]4515 [/td][td]54.39 [/td][td]16 [/td][td]21 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]away [/td][td]1972-1983 [/td][td]32 [/td][td]2595 [/td][td]52.95 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]10 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]in Australia [/td][td]1970-1984 [/td][td]55 [/td][td]4515 [/td][td]54.39 [/td][td]16 [/td][td]21 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]in England [/td][td]1972-1980 [/td][td]15 [/td][td]1020 [/td][td]40.8 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]4 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]in New Zealand [/td][td]1974-1982 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]786 [/td][td]71.45 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]in Pakistan [/td][td]1980-1980 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]381 [/td][td]76.2 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]2 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]in Sri Lanka [/td][td]1983-1983 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]66 [/td][td]66 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]in West Indies [/td][td]1973-1973 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]342 [/td][td]48.85 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]2 [/td][/tr]
[/table]

He only played 32 away matches out of which 15 were against England. He also never faced WI fast bowlers in International test match. I don't value WSC stats as they were at max glorified benefit match.

I rate Gavaskar above Chappell because he played for much longer with pretty similar stats and him being opener adds extra merit. Overall they were pretty close. Chappell again is not clearly above Border as both have great merit. While Chappell has superior overall average Border played twice as much with superior Away record. Few years of International cricket Chappell lost due to WSC makes it tough to truely rate him among other legends.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Miandad was a great batsman, especially when both formats are considered. For those who want to call him best from Asia, good for you. To each their own. If not the best, he's still up there so no point arguing.

 

[therealAB]

Greg Chappell has great and pretty balanced stats. But few things do become noticible on closer inspection.
[table=width: 500, class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Record [/td][td]Span [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Runs [/td][td]Ave [/td][td]100 [/td][td]50 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]home [/td][td]1970-1984 [/td][td]55 [/td][td]4515 [/td][td]54.39 [/td][td]16 [/td][td]21 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]away [/td][td]1972-1983 [/td][td]32 [/td][td]2595 [/td][td]52.95 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]10 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]in Australia [/td][td]1970-1984 [/td][td]55 [/td][td]4515 [/td][td]54.39 [/td][td]16 [/td][td]21 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]in England [/td][td]1972-1980 [/td][td]15 [/td][td]1020 [/td][td]40.8 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]4 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]in New Zealand [/td][td]1974-1982 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]786 [/td][td]71.45 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]in Pakistan [/td][td]1980-1980 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]381 [/td][td]76.2 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]2 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]in Sri Lanka [/td][td]1983-1983 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]66 [/td][td]66 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]in West Indies [/td][td]1973-1973 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]342 [/td][td]48.85 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]2 [/td][/tr]
[/table]

He only played 32 away matches out of which 15 were against England. He also never faced WI fast bowlers in International test match. I don't value WSC stats as they were at max glorified benefit match.

I rate Gavaskar above Chappell because he played for much longer with pretty similar stats and him being opener adds extra merit. Overall they were pretty close. Chappell again is not clearly above Border as both have great merit. While Chappell has superior overall average Border played twice as much with superior Away record. Few years of International cricket Chappell lost due to WSC makes it tough to truely rate him among other legends.

I agree Chappell ** Border/Gavaskar is close. Below Gavaskar but above Border for me. However he is quite clearly above Miandad

All of the players who played WSC said it was the highest standard of cricket they played. I have soon footage and it is very competitive. There is no reason to not count it

 

[MenInG]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/OnThisDay?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#OnThisDay</a> in 1987. Javed Miandad completed one of his six double-centuries in Test cricket. During his innings of 260 at The Oval he became the first Pakistani to score 6000 runs in Test cricket <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a> <a href="https://t.co/kBCag2de6P">pic.twitter.com/kBCag2de6P</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1423917747294064644?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 7, 2021</a></blockquote>
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[Jazx]

They make nice stories, but individual moments or wins do not have long lasting impact, and neither can dominance be attributed to them. Generally, the better team will prevail, irrespective of any mental scarring.

Same was said about the Champions Trophy Final, and how this crop of Pakistani players will not be intimidated by India who will be mentally scarred the next time they play Pakistan. We saw how that panned out.

Pakistan dominated India back then simply because it had better players. Same reason why India is dominating Pakistan despite of the blip in the Champions Trophy. It had nothing to do with that six - Miandad could have had his stumps knocked over but that would not have made the Indian players of that generation superior.

Thats how stories are made and history is glorified as if nothing was more superior than that.

 

[Junaids]

I agree with them.

Miandad was quite good, but he didn’t have to face the West Indian or Pakistani (or South African) attacks and was immune to being LBW at home.

From 1977-85 he was clearly inferior to Viv Richards, Barry Richards, Clive Lloyd, Greg Chappell, Kim Hughes, Sunil Gavaskar and David Gower.

From 1985-1993 he was clearly inferior to Allan Border, Graham Gooch, Martin Crowe, Mohammad Azharuddin and Dean Jones.

Javed Miandad was a very good batsman whose figures were inflated by crooked Pakistani umpiring. And then he scored 2 centuries in the Caribbean against a rookie attack in 1988 before failing there in 1993 once those same bowlers were more experienced.

I see no reason to revise my earlier opinion.

Babar Azam and Mohammad Rizwan are better batsmen than Miandad ever was.

 

[MesonK]

A true legend and a street fighter. Babar Azam may end up as greatest Pakistani LOIs batsman but no one can touch Javed in tests.

 

[PakLFC]

He was thee difference in Pak being an average batting side to a good batting side back then. Mostly when Pak scored well it was built by a long innings by Javed. He guarded his wicket like a soldier guards the border is the highest tribute I can pay him, an incredibly difficult batsman to remove from the crease Javed was always seen as the prize wicket. Sure the likes of Gower, Chappell, Viv and Greenidge were much better stroke players where as Javed was a sheet anchor holding things together often when everything around him was collapsing. It was Viv Richards who said " “If I have to choose a batsman to bat for my life, it would be Miandad.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Kim Hughes was better than Miandad
Another lesson in Sensationalism by Junaids.

 

[shamaan]

One word Warrior