Is Misbah-ul-Haq responsible for the destruction of Pakistan's fast bowling legacy?

[shaz619]

Look, Pakistan won and congratulations.

It was great to win at home and especially getting rid of the excess waste who have no spine or pride for playing for Pakistan.

But, how do you really feel, about 1/2 a seamer and 3 spinners doing the job?

The spin trend arose during the era of Misbah-ul-Haq.

Back in the day the likes of Wasim/Waqar ripped opposition apart, thenShoaib Akhtar complimented the attack and we witnessed the magic of Mohammad Asif.

Pakistan’s fast bowling resources were always praised and it was a matter of pride to be blessed with bowlers who instilled the fear of god in the batters eyes.

But when Misbah came along, it was all about playing it safe, batting big once and strangling the opposition with spin.

When Misbah left, he left the team in dire consequences because the fast bowling resources had completely diminished.

Now that Pakistan have won after some time with spinners, I fear that we’ve seen the last of the dying breed that was a quintessential Pakistani fast bowling attack and Misbah is to blame.

 

[shaz619]

@mominsaigol @Rana @DeadlyVenom @Markhor @James

Interested to get your thoughts

 

[gazza619]

Yeah blame everything on Misbah for what happened in the past and blame everything on Riz on whatever is happening now.

Lack of honesty and vision.

 

[mominsaigol]

@mominsaigol @Rana @DeadlyVenom @Markhor @James

Interested to get your thoughts

Misbah is a clown, Nuff said

 

[Devadwal]

No Misbah is not the reason but pakistan pacers priority are T20 League .

They don't have test cricket level fitness standards .

Naseem was not dropped due to lack of form but he was not fit enough .

 

[DeadlyVenom]

@mominsaigol @Rana @DeadlyVenom @Markhor @James

Interested to get your thoughts

I'm good with it.

UAE era was some of the best memories as a Pak fan.

We don't have the fast bowlers of old. They have no grit or stamina. You can see them in the first class set up. Our best pacer of recent times has been Abbas and he was like 75mph.

If we can replicate the UAE era and these spinner chachus can lead us to victory then so be it.

 

[Kianig89]

Misbah had some gems only to be felt neglected disapproved an underconfident.
Another important aspect was Misbah's one trick captaincy which never confidence and authority to fast bowlers.

During his time fast bowlers role was only to contain.

Wahab Riaz, Rahat Ali, Junaid Khan Umer Gul etc were all available during Misbah era yet he preferred Aizaz Cheema, Tanvir Ahmed & Imran Khan Jr

 

[Devadwal]

Pakistan fans after A lose - Let's blame Misbah

Pakistan fans after a win - Let's blame Misbah

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Test cricket has changed since the Misbah era primarily due to the advent of the WTC.

We should now be aiming to pick up maximum points at home to give us a shot for qualifying for the finals and we just need 2-3 fast bowlers in rotation to help us compete overseas occasionally and set us up for a final at Lords where anything can happen.

Our fast bowling focus should be on LOI cricket where I actually think we have decent stocks.

 

[batandballbattle]

The talent is there, they are just not willing to adapt or have lost form
Shaheen and Naseem based on all of their reputation should be our leading lights in red ball
But instead one keeps trying to find a magic ball rather than stick to hard lengths and probing channels and the others accuracy is suffering
They should be going back to the FC grindstone but in reality they'll go get their paydays in leagues and be content with being white ball regulars for a while longer

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Look, Pakistan won and congratulations.

It was great to win at home and especially getting rid of the excess waste who have no spine or pride for playing for Pakistan.

But, how do you really feel, about 1/2 a seamer and 3 spinners doing the job?

The spin trend arose during the era of Misbah-ul-Haq.

Back in the day the likes of Wasim/Waqar ripped opposition apart, thenShoaib Akhtar complimented the attack and we witnessed the magic of Mohammad Asif.

Pakistan’s fast bowling resources were always praised and it was a matter of pride to be blessed with bowlers who instilled the fear of god in the batters eyes.

But when Misbah came along, it was all about playing it safe, batting big once and strangling the opposition with spin.

When Misbah left, he left the team in dire consequences because the fast bowling resources had completely diminished.

Now that Pakistan have won after some time with spinners, I fear that we’ve seen the last of the dying breed that was a quintessential Pakistani fast bowling attack and Misbah is to blame.

Pakistan's fast-bowling culture has been in decline for a very long time. The pacers that Misbah used to select in his team; the Rahat Alis, Imran Khan Jrs, Tanvir Ahmeds et all were all performing in domestic cricket. I don't see how Misbah can be blamed for the decline of fast-bowling in this country when those were pretty much the best fast-bowlers we had at the time. Even in ODIs during that era it was all about Afridi, Ajmal and Hafeez controlling the game in the middle-overs. it was only for a short period of time that Umar Gul was successful. Misbah's strategy was a realistic one. Pakistan did not have the pace attack to challenge top teams anymore so he made the shift to spin-bowling because the conditions in Pakistan's adopted home were conducive to them. And because spin-bowling was still Pakistan's strength compared to countries like England, Australia, South Africa and New Zealand.

Fact is this, Misbah has been gone for three years and yet the Pakistan team has only gotten worse since then. How long are people going to keep blaming him rather than looking more deeply at the absolute dearth of fast-bowling talent in this country and question why it is that we can't produce a fast-bowler or batter that manages to be successful for a sustained period of time?

 

[DTrump]

Ehh. How do you win in Asia without quality spin? Yes. The quality of pace has diminished but you should not be this dismissive of spin. Qadir, Saqlain and Mushtaq were huge part of Pakistan wins before the 21st century.

Yasir Shah was instrumental in Pakistan drawing the series in England in 2016. A 10 wicket haul at Lord's and fifer at the Oval.

When Pakistan won in Sydney (1995), it was Mushtaq Ahmed who took a 9 wicket haul. Same thing happened in Durban (1998). Mushtaq was at the forefront.

People like to harp on Shoaib picking Dravid and Tendulkar B2B in 1999, it was Saqlain leading the attack with 20 wickets in 2 tests.

Pakistan's last win in South Africa. Port Elizabeth 2007. Kaneria picked up 7 wickets.

 

[SpinKing]

Wow this is such a ridiculous take

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Wow this is such a ridiculous take

Well ofocurse you of all people would say that, Mr. King. I think your opinions on spin-bowling might be a bit biased

 

[shaz619]

Pakistan's fast-bowling culture has been in decline for a very long time. The pacers that Misbah used to select in his team; the Rahat Alis, Imran Khan Jrs, Tanvir Ahmeds et all were all performing in domestic cricket. I don't see how Misbah can be blamed for the decline of fast-bowling in this country when those were pretty much the best fast-bowlers we had at the time. Even in ODIs during that era it was all about Afridi, Ajmal and Hafeez controlling the game in the middle-overs. it was only for a short period of time that Umar Gul was successful. Misbah's strategy was a realistic one. Pakistan did not have the pace attack to challenge top teams anymore so he made the shift to spin-bowling because the conditions in Pakistan's adopted home were conducive to them. And because spin-bowling was still Pakistan's strength compared to countries like England, Australia, South Africa and New Zealand.

Fact is this, Misbah has been gone for three years and yet the Pakistan team has only gotten worse since then. How long are people going to keep blaming him rather than looking more deeply at the absolute dearth of fast-bowling talent in this country and question why it is that we can't produce a fast-bowler or batter that manages to be successful for a sustained period of time?

Thanks for not getting upset with my opinion, I disagree to some extent with what you’re saying. For me the bedrock of the Pakistani Cricket has been its rich fast bowling legacy and nothing is more thrilling than a proper Pakistani quick running through a line up. I feel that you prematurely moved forward with the spin strategy, the wickets were prepared accordingly as well and I feel like that sends a big message to the talent pool available. Add to that, when Misbah did invest in fast bowlers, he ran them into the ground and very few had long careers under his captaincy, he was very poor with his management of the fast bowlers as well. It’s great Pak won but I fear you’re going to move even further away from developing a good crop of fast bowlers and I am sure Misbah’s secret consultancy on strategy is going to be extended. At the crux of it all, I just want to be entertained like in the years of yore.

 

[LordJames]

Look, Pakistan won and congratulations.

It was great to win at home and especially getting rid of the excess waste who have no spine or pride for playing for Pakistan.

But, how do you really feel, about 1/2 a seamer and 3 spinners doing the job?

The spin trend arose during the era of Misbah-ul-Haq.

Back in the day the likes of Wasim/Waqar ripped opposition apart, thenShoaib Akhtar complimented the attack and we witnessed the magic of Mohammad Asif.

Pakistan’s fast bowling resources were always praised and it was a matter of pride to be blessed with bowlers who instilled the fear of god in the batters eyes.

But when Misbah came along, it was all about playing it safe, batting big once and strangling the opposition with spin.

When Misbah left, he left the team in dire consequences because the fast bowling resources had completely diminished.

Now that Pakistan have won after some time with spinners, I fear that we’ve seen the last of the dying breed that was a quintessential Pakistani fast bowling attack and Misbah is to blame.

Your post is hard to understand so let me see if I can simplify it

1. Misbah-ul-Haq's first match as Captain was in October 2010 against South Africa in UAE
2. His last match was May 14, 2017 against West Indies at Roseau
3. Pakistan won against England at Multan on October 18, 2024

So you are saying that Misbah ensured that no Fast Bowler emerged in Pakistan during and after his retirement and if someone did emerge Misbah made sure that he he got injured or sidelined or Misbah made sure that he never got a chance to showcase his Talent?

Is that your point?

Thanks

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Thanks for not getting upset with my opinion, I disagree to some extent with what you’re saying. For me the bedrock of the Pakistani Cricket has been its rich fast bowling legacy and nothing is more thrilling than a proper Pakistani quick running through a line up. I feel that you prematurely moved forward with the spin strategy, the wickets were prepared accordingly as well and I feel like that sends a big message to the talent pool available. Add to that, when Misbah did invest in fast bowlers, he ran them into the ground and very few had long careers under his captaincy, he was very poor with his management of the fast bowlers as well. It’s great Pak won but I fear you’re going to move even further away from developing a good crop of fast bowlers and I am sure Misbah’s secret consultancy on strategy is going to be extended. At the crux of it all, I just want to be entertained like in the years of yore.

Id argue we didn't have much of a heritage.

3-4 bowlers in total. The rest were ok or average.

Where would our heritage rank alongside Windies, Australia, South Africa?

We just grew up at a time where a Pakistani bowler charging in was normal for us but if you scratch away it was just Imran, Wasim, Waqar and then Shoaib.

 

[shaz619]

Test cricket has changed since the Misbah era primarily due to the advent of the WTC.

We should now be aiming to pick up maximum points at home to give us a shot for qualifying for the finals and we just need 2-3 fast bowlers in rotation to help us compete overseas occasionally and set us up for a final at Lords where anything can happen.

Our fast bowling focus should be on LOI cricket where I actually think we have decent stocks.

I don’t think we should give up on Test cricket just yet, in the future I think the revenue generated from LOI’s, should allow for Tests to be played and safeguarded, maybe other forms will be altered but Tests iA will remain and therefore you need to develop fast bowlers for this format and ultimately such bowlers will be more equipped to succeed in other formats. Misbah wanted spinners, you won with spin now and there is a big risk of overlooking the fast bowling development.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

Id argue we didn't have much of a heritage.

3-4 bowlers in total. The rest were ok or average.

Where would our heritage rank alongside Windies, Australia, South Africa?

We just grew up at a time where a Pakistani bowler charging in was normal for us but if you scratch away it was just Imran, Wasim, Waqar and then Shoaib.

Constant churn of fast bowlers though... Zahid to Sami

 

[Kroll]

I think Misbah was more responsible for the destruction of the batting than the bowling. Asif and Amir were to blame for their own demise which left Pakistan fast bowling depleted of its best players. Gulldozer did a fine job as a white ball bowler for a while and Junaid had that epic series in India.

Since then no one has really stepped up to elite levels, or faded badly after the initial hype.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

They were still produced

The thread title is legacy.

Fast bowlers that achieve nothing are still being produced.

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

Unfortunately this test win has killed off any prospects of a fast bowling renaissance. More spinning wickets and more spinners to come.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Thanks for not getting upset with my opinion, I disagree to some extent with what you’re saying. For me the bedrock of the Pakistani Cricket has been its rich fast bowling legacy and nothing is more thrilling than a proper Pakistani quick running through a line up. I feel that you prematurely moved forward with the spin strategy, the wickets were prepared accordingly as well and I feel like that sends a big message to the talent pool available. Add to that, when Misbah did invest in fast bowlers, he ran them into the ground and very few had long careers under his captaincy, he was very poor with his management of the fast bowlers as well. It’s great Pak won but I fear you’re going to move even further away from developing a good crop of fast bowlers and I am sure Misbah’s secret consultancy on strategy is going to be extended. At the crux of it all, I just want to be entertained like in the years of yore.

I respect you and your opinion too much to be upset by it. A level of respect I don't have for certain other attention-seekers on this forum.

I agree with the sentiment. It has been sad to see the decline of fast-bowling in this country. Regardless of long-term potential Pakistan was always great at churning out raw, fast-bowling talent. However at the same time I feel spin-bowling is an essential component of being successful in Asia that should not be discounted. Even if you went back and looked at the Inzamam era, when we were fairly successful at home, you will find that it was Danish Kaneria who was our leading wicket taker at home during that period. Misbah doubled down on spin but again, he wasn't the one selecting the squad. When Rahat Ali, Ehsan Adil, Imran Khan Jr. and now, Khurram Shahzad, Mir Hamza, Mohammad Ali are your top performers in QeA Trophy cricket, you have to question where are things going wrong structurally? Franchise cricket bears some responsibility in guys like Hasnain not playing enough FC, but that still doesn't explain why enough express pacers aren't coming through the system.

Misbah's strategy was geared towards winning matches by accentuating Pakistan's strengths and making the best use of the conditioslns. And you can't say it didn't work, it led to one of most successful periods in their test history and some remarkable test match victories that I will never forget. Misbah had many flaws. Tactically he wasn't very sharp outside of his comfort zone, which was spin-friendly conditions. And tbh he got badly exposed in Australia. First as captain and then as coach. You are probably right that he is not good at understanding/using fast-bowlers either. Because there was zero logic behind throwing a completely inexperienced attack of Shaheen, Naseem and Musa Khan to the wolves in Australia in 2019. But what he understands well, he understands very well. And that's how to win in Asia.

Misbah was far from perfect but he still achieved more than any Pakistan captain in recent memory. And for that, he deserves his flowers...in my humble opinion.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I think Misbah was more responsible for the destruction of the batting than the bowling. Asif and Amir were to blame for their own demise which left Pakistan fast bowling depleted of its best players. Gulldozer did a fine job as a white ball bowler for a while and Junaid had that epic series in India.

Since then no one has really stepped up to elite levels, or faded badly after the initial hype.

If you look at Azhar Ali and Asad Shafiq's numbers during the Misbah era, everything pointed towards them being the successors to Younis and Misbah. Azhar was averaging close to 50 and had a banner year in 2016. Asad was averaging 45. It was only after Misbah and Younis retired that their careers fell off a cliff. Particularly Asad Shafiq who was averaging 37 or 38 by the time he was dropped for good.

 

[cricketAXEpert]

Look, Pakistan won and congratulations.

It was great to win at home and especially getting rid of the excess waste who have no spine or pride for playing for Pakistan.

But, how do you really feel, about 1/2 a seamer and 3 spinners doing the job?

The spin trend arose during the era of Misbah-ul-Haq.

Back in the day the likes of Wasim/Waqar ripped opposition apart, thenShoaib Akhtar complimented the attack and we witnessed the magic of Mohammad Asif.

Pakistan’s fast bowling resources were always praised and it was a matter of pride to be blessed with bowlers who instilled the fear of god in the batters eyes.

But when Misbah came along, it was all about playing it safe, batting big once and strangling the opposition with spin.

When Misbah left, he left the team in dire consequences because the fast bowling resources had completely diminished.

Now that Pakistan have won after some time with spinners, I fear that we’ve seen the last of the dying breed that was a quintessential Pakistani fast bowling attack and Misbah is to blame.

Pakistan always had a great spinner taking the pressure of the pacers. Wasim and Waqar first had the great Abdul Qadir, then Mushtaq Ahmed and then Saqlain. Then Kaneria took up the mantle. And these spinners often had a junior spinner on a turning pitch.

Then Spot fixing disaster happened. Pakistan not only lost the best pace bowling pair of Asif and Amir, they also lost Danish Kaneria (due to a different spot fixing event).

Misbah had to start with a new bowling attack that too in the dust bowls of UAE. Misbah had a decent pace bowling attack but injuries didn't let them flourish Junaid Khan got injured and was never the same afterwards. Mohd Irfan was a long shot due to his height, he couldn't last. Misbah even welcomed back Mohd Amir, once his ban was lifted. Can't blame Misbah for UAE pitches, where the ball hardly bounces waist high.

The problem is the PSL. we are using PSL to select players for all formats. for example Saim Ayub who is playing test cricket ahead of Huraira, when Huraira is better than him. We currently have Mohd Ali in the squad who can't get a wicket if his life depended on it, who lacks pace, who is 32 years old already but is in the test squad cause he had a good PSL?

Harris Rauf is a perfect example of a PSL pace bowler, all he has is pace but lacks in most other skills. Pakistan in the last few years has gone thru over a dozen pace bowlers, who all showed great promise but break down quickly and get injured. Injuries, inconsistent performance and a very short playing career are all signs that they are T20 level players in other words not good enough. T20 is entertainment (like a joke) cricket. The real cricket is Test cricket / first class. PCB needs to focus on the first class cricket and not what happens in PSL.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Pakistan always had a great spinner taking the pressure of the pacers. Wasim and Waqar first had the great Abdul Qadir, then Mushtaq Ahmed and then Saqlain. Then Kaneria took up the mantle. And these spinners often had a junior spinner on a turning pitch.
Then Spot fixing disaster happened. Pakistan not only lost the best pace bowling pair of Asif and Amir, they also lost Danish Kaneria (due to a different spot fixing event).

Misbah had to start with a new bowling attack that too in the dust bowls of UAE. Misbah had a decent pace bowling attack but injuries didn't let them flourish Junaid Khan got injured and was never the same afterwards. Mohd Irfan was a long shot due to his height, he couldn't last. Misbah even welcomed back Mohd Amir, once his ban was lifted. Can't blame Misbah for UAE pitches, where the ball hardly bounces waist high.

The problem is the PSL. we are using PSL to select players for all formats. for example Saim Ayub who is playing test cricket ahead of Huraira, when Huraira is better than him. We currently have Mohd Ali in the squad who can't get a wicket if his life depended on it, who lacks pace, who is 32 years old already but is in the test squad cause he had a good PSL?

Harris Rauf is a perfect example of a PSL pace bowler, all he has is pace but lacks in most other skills. Pakistan in the last few years has gone thru over a dozen pace bowlers, who all showed great promise but break down quickly and get injured. Injuries, inconsistent performance and a very short playing career are all signs that they are T20 level players in other words not good enough. T20 is entertainment ( like a joke) cricket. The real cricket is Test cricket / first class. PCB needs to focus on the first class cricket and not what happens in PSL.

Not enough people talk about the loss of Kaneria. I think he was really starting to evolve as a bowler by 2010. He had starting bowling a bit slower and was picking up a bunch of wickets in domestic too. And this was at a point in his career when he already had 261 test wickets. He could have taken 400+ test wickets but ended up being his own worst enemy like his cohorts.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Pakistan always had a great spinner taking the pressure of the pacers. Wasim and Waqar first had the great Abdul Qadir, then Mushtaq Ahmed and then Saqlain. Then Kaneria took up the mantle. And these spinners often had a junior spinner on a turning pitch.
Then Spot fixing disaster happened. Pakistan not only lost the best pace bowling pair of Asif and Amir, they also lost Danish Kaneria (due to a different spot fixing event).

Misbah had to start with a new bowling attack that too in the dust bowls of UAE. Misbah had a decent pace bowling attack but injuries didn't let them flourish Junaid Khan got injured and was never the same afterwards. Mohd Irfan was a long shot due to his height, he couldn't last. Misbah even welcomed back Mohd Amir, once his ban was lifted. Can't blame Misbah for UAE pitches, where the ball hardly bounces waist high.

The problem is the PSL. we are using PSL to select players for all formats. for example Saim Ayub who is playing test cricket ahead of Huraira, when Huraira is better than him. We currently have Mohd Ali in the squad who can't get a wicket if his life depended on it, who lacks pace, who is 32 years old already but is in the test squad cause he had a good PSL?

Harris Rauf is a perfect example of a PSL pace bowler, all he has is pace but lacks in most other skills. Pakistan in the last few years has gone thru over a dozen pace bowlers, who all showed great promise but break down quickly and get injured. Injuries, inconsistent performance and a very short playing career are all signs that they are T20 level players in other words not good enough. T20 is entertainment ( like a joke) cricket. The real cricket is Test cricket / first class. PCB needs to focus on the first class cricket and not what happens in PSL.

Mohammad Ali was one of the leading wicket takers in the last QeA Trophy. Saim also had a great season and scored a double ton in the final.

 

[Buffet]

One person can certainly play a part in encouraging or discouraging pacers, but I don't think one person can be reponsible for destruction of pacers in any country.

 

[Mamoon]

Look, Pakistan won and congratulations.

It was great to win at home and especially getting rid of the excess waste who have no spine or pride for playing for Pakistan.

But, how do you really feel, about 1/2 a seamer and 3 spinners doing the job?

The spin trend arose during the era of Misbah-ul-Haq.

Back in the day the likes of Wasim/Waqar ripped opposition apart, thenShoaib Akhtar complimented the attack and we witnessed the magic of Mohammad Asif.

Pakistan’s fast bowling resources were always praised and it was a matter of pride to be blessed with bowlers who instilled the fear of god in the batters eyes.

But when Misbah came along, it was all about playing it safe, batting big once and strangling the opposition with spin.

When Misbah left, he left the team in dire consequences because the fast bowling resources had completely diminished.

Now that Pakistan have won after some time with spinners, I fear that we’ve seen the last of the dying breed that was a quintessential Pakistani fast bowling attack and Misbah is to blame.

Who were the Wasim, Waqar, Shoaib and Asif that Misbah didn’t select due to his spin strategy? Please name them.

 

[shaz619]

Who were the Wasim, Waqar, Shoaib and Asif that Misbah didn’t select due to his spin strategy? Please name them.

The stocks plummeted indeed when the strategy shifted

 

[shaz619]

One person can certainly play a part in encouraging or discouraging pacers, but I don't think one person can be reponsible for destruction of pacers in any country.

You underestimate his involvement in Pakistan cricket affairs and during his time he did the fast bowling stocks no favours / there was a gross mismanagement off those resources to

 

[shaz619]

I think Misbah was more responsible for the destruction of the batting than the bowling. Asif and Amir were to blame for their own demise which left Pakistan fast bowling depleted of its best players. Gulldozer did a fine job as a white ball bowler for a while and Junaid had that epic series in India.

Since then no one has really stepped up to elite levels, or faded badly after the initial hype.

I see where you’re coming from though I don’t agree with how Misbah handled Amir post ban and I believe he was also responsible for Junaid’s short lived career, it took Sarfraz Ahmed’s urn to ressurect him like Paul Bearer use to do with the Undertaker for the Champions Trophy, what a beautiful fast bowling attack that was. That might have been the last time I enjoyed Pakistani fast bowling as a collective unit.

 

[ads101]

I don’t agree. But I think our focus should always have been spin anyway. Most countries produce players that suit their conditions. This giving them a competitive advantage.

Pakistan focused on fast bowlers. But when players from sena come over, they are more used to playing fast bowlers in conditions preferable to fast bowlers. So they are better equipped to play fast bowling. However it’s the opposite for spin where Sena are less used to playing spin on turning tracks. Which India exploit.

If we prepare a pitch to favour seamers we also inconvenience our own batsmen who are better against spin.

Even if these fast bowlers are useful when we tour, I feel knowledge of home conditions is still going to give home fast bowlers an edge.

So our strengths don’t really suit our home conditions.

If we really want to focus on fast bowling, the solution would to make all the pitches good for fast bowling thus giving practice to our batsmen. However I don’t know if that’s possible to make all the pitches like SENA ones.

 

[shaz619]

I don’t agree. But I think our focus should always have been spin anyway. Most countries produce players that suit their conditions. This giving them a competitive advantage.

Pakistan focused on fast bowlers. But when players from sena come over, they are more used to playing fast bowlers in conditions preferable to fast bowlers. So they are better equipped to play fast bowling. However it’s the opposite for spin where Sena are less used to playing spin on turning tracks. Which India exploit.

If we prepare a pitch to favour seamers we also inconvenience our own batsmen who are better against spin.

Even if these fast bowlers are useful when we tour, I feel knowledge of home conditions is still going to give home fast bowlers an edge.

So our strengths don’t really suit our home conditions.

If we really want to focus on fast bowling, the solution would to make all the pitches good for fast bowling thus giving practice to our batsmen. However I don’t know if that’s possible to make all the pitches like SENA ones.

There’s a balance which should be able to cater to all parties with the wicket, but during that Misbah/Waqar era there was little attention on reverse swing as well, you want to give the spinners something that is fine, but reverse swing is an art and so is the utilisation of the manner in which you unleash fast bowlers. Pak spinners have outplayed England’s, but look at that god damn English bowling attack in these conditions and Carse has been phenomenal, guys like Misbah and those who scribe to his vision, simply don’t think forward in this manner but am hoping that with Gillespie, maybe he wont overlook this part but we shall see

 

[Buffet]

You underestimate his involvement in Pakistan cricket affairs and during his time he did the fast bowling stocks no favours / there was a gross mismanagement off those resources to

You may have a point because now I recall he was holding a bunch of top level posts like chief selector, head coach. director and what not at the same time after his retirement as well. I don't reacall this being a norm for any international team at any time. Specially coach and cheif slector at the same time was very odd. Or may be it was director and head coach after he got rid of some head coach and then took over the coach position. I may be mixing things here, but something stood out to me at that time and I found it very weird. Lack of ethics.

So he may have a huge influence even after his retirement. During playing days, some captains have handled pacers poorly. Case in point, Dhoni. But their influence was done once they retired. In case of Misbah, he was omnipresent in PCB admin at top level.

 

[Buffet]

There’s a balance which should be able to cater to all parties with the wicket, but during that Misbah/Waqar era there was little attention on reverse swing as well, you want to give the spinners something that is fine, but reverse swing is an art and so is the utilisation of the manner in which you unleash fast bowlers.

Pakistan focused on fast bowlers. But when players from sena come over, they are more used to playing fast bowlers in conditions preferable to fast bowlers. So they are better equipped to play fast bowling. However it’s the opposite for spin where Sena are less used to playing spin on turning tracks. Which India exploit.

I think having something for all bowlers is not a bad idea. India surely has turning tracks but at the same time Shami, Bumrah, Yadav etc have picked up 280 wickets at below 25 average at home. So it's possible to have all kinds of bowlers doing well on well on same pitches. Yes, agree that you will have majority of pitches which helps spin but it does not need to be unhelpful for pacers. Not too many SENA pacers use reverse very well.

 

[Mamoon]

The stocks plummeted indeed when the strategy shifted

Pakistan under Misbah pivoted to spin dominant strategy because Amir and Asif turned out to be fixers. There was a period in between where Misbah decided to go with a pace dominant attack with Junaid and Irfan but they didn’t have the longevity due to injuries.

There was a gaping hole and the lines of Rahat Ali and others were not up to the mark until Shaheen emerged and by then Misbah had retired.

So it had nothing to do with Misbah and everything to do with the fact that Amir and Asif turned out to be frauds.

 

[ads101]

Pakistan under Misbah pivoted to spin dominant strategy because Amir and Asif turned out to be fixers. There was a period in between where Misbah decided to go with a pace dominant attack with Junaid and Irfan but they didn’t have the longevity due to injuries.

There was a gaping hole and the lines of Rahat Ali and others were not up to the mark until Shaheen emerged and by then Misbah had retired.

So it had nothing to do with Misbah and everything to do with the fact that Amir and Asif turned out to be frauds.

This was sadly a factor too.

 

[TheSultan]

Look, Pakistan won and congratulations.

It was great to win at home and especially getting rid of the excess waste who have no spine or pride for playing for Pakistan.

But, how do you really feel, about 1/2 a seamer and 3 spinners doing the job?

The spin trend arose during the era of Misbah-ul-Haq.

Back in the day the likes of Wasim/Waqar ripped opposition apart, thenShoaib Akhtar complimented the attack and we witnessed the magic of Mohammad Asif.

Pakistan’s fast bowling resources were always praised and it was a matter of pride to be blessed with bowlers who instilled the fear of god in the batters eyes.

But when Misbah came along, it was all about playing it safe, batting big once and strangling the opposition with spin.

When Misbah left, he left the team in dire consequences because the fast bowling resources had completely diminished.

Now that Pakistan have won after some time with spinners, I fear that we’ve seen the last of the dying breed that was a quintessential Pakistani fast bowling attack and Misbah is to blame.

You’ve echoed my thoughts completely.

Misbah just wanted to make us India. I’d never want that for Pakistan. We need our pace bowlers to play a role. And if our “think tank” were paying attention to England’s bowling, there is still space for good sharp reverse swing on these pitches.

 

[topspin]

Misbah certainly holds some responsibility for this when he was captain of the test side. His success up until the end of 2014 came on the back of two chuckers, Saeed Ajmal and Mohammad Hafeez.

I've said this before and I'll say it again, the guy had a substandard cricketing IQ. A prime of example of this was during the 2015/16 tour of Australia, where he bowled Yasir Shah to the ground with all the fielders on the leg-side.

So yes Misbah has certainly played a major part of Pakistan's demise in the pace bowling department.

 

[ads101]

There’s a balance which should be able to cater to all parties with the wicket, but during that Misbah/Waqar era there was little attention on reverse swing as well, you want to give the spinners something that is fine, but reverse swing is an art and so is the utilisation of the manner in which you unleash fast bowlers. Pak spinners have outplayed England’s, but look at that god damn English bowling attack in these conditions and Carse has been phenomenal, guys like Misbah and those who scribe to his vision, simply don’t think forward in this manner but am hoping that with Gillespie, maybe he wont overlook this part but we shall see

I think having something for all bowlers is not a bad idea. India surely has turning tracks but at the same time Shami, Bumrah, Yadav etc have picked up 280 wickets at below 25 average at home. So it's possible to have all kinds of bowlers doing well on well on same pitches. Yes, agree that you will have majority of pitches which helps spin but it does not need to be unhelpful for pacers. Not too many SENA pacers use reverse very well.

The problem with reverse swing is it’s not always there. Plus people cheat to produce reverse swing, even though it is possible to do it legitimately. So sometimes the cheaters will benefit more than the ones legitimately trying to produce reverse swing.

It also doesn’t help with the chucking rules, spinners have had to modify their actions. So getting the next ajmal isn’t possible.

I personally think most of our issues bowling is down to spinners. We don’t have good spinners in LOI or tests. Which is why we can’t even dominate in home conditions or prepare pitches that favour us. Our pacers tend to do pretty well when they turn up to England, but they can’t bowl in those conditions often. Shaheen, Naseem, Haris Rauf, Amir all have their merits. I think if they all were fully fit and not injury affected (or Amir younger but he can’t do much about that) it’d be a strong pace attack. But as I said before I think fitness is the biggest and most pressing problem in Pakistani cricket right now.

Guys like Bumrah are special. He’s that supreme fast bowler who is so good he’ll do well despite conditions. We’ve had fast bowlers like that before like Wasim, Waqar etc. But it’s harder to discover someone like that, it’s rare. You can’t count on it. Whilst even a half way decent spinner would be able to make use of our conditions well. And in theory should be easier to uncover. Yet we don’t have even one.

 

[topspin]

Misbah certainly holds some responsibility for this when he was captain of the test side. His success up until the end of 2014 came on the back of two chuckers, Saeed Ajmal and Mohammad Hafeez.

I've said this before and I'll say it again, the guy had a substandard cricketing IQ. A prime of example of this was during the 2015/16 tour of Australia, where he bowled Yasir Shah to the ground with all the fielders on the leg-side.

So yes Misbah has certainly played a major part of Pakistan's demise in the pace bowling department.

I would also like to add if you're primarily relying on chuckers to win you matches, it's not just a detriment to fast bowling but also a detriment to both types of bowling. This approach never bodes well for the future and now the results in recent years are there for everyone to see.

Everyone will talk about Noman Ali and Sajid Khan but the bowler who impressed me the most during this second test was Brydon Carse. He was brilliant on this wicket which wasn't a suited for the quicks.

 

[Buffet]

Guys like Bumrah are special. He’s that supreme fast bowler who is so good he’ll do well despite conditions. We’ve had fast bowlers like that before like Wasim, Waqar etc. But it’s harder to discover someone like that, it’s rare. You can’t count on it. Whilst even a half way decent spinner would be able to make use of our conditions well. And in theory should be easier to uncover. Yet we don’t have even one.

That's a good point. It's very hard to find gun pacer, but should be easier to find half decent spinners and they should be able to do well on turning tracks. They don't need to be ATG level, but having 2-3 good spinners as unit on traditional turning tracks will work more than fine.

 

[Nasty Naz]

Misbah led Pakistan through some of the worst times and lack of talent imaginable. Pakistan lost its two premier bowlers in Asif & Amir, Gul got old. Junaid came briefly, got injured and PCB lacks any ability to bring a fast bowler after an injury and then he's left with dudes like Rahat & Wahab. Turning the crap talent he had available into a formidable Test team should be lauded instead people will come up with anything to tear him down.

If you want to blame him for the poor stretch in white ball, then sure, go for it. But that's what happens when you have players like Younis/Shafiq etc playing so many ODI's and Shehzad/Akmal not becoming the stars everyone initially envisioned.

Instead of blaming a singular person for something that is not possible, blame the barely functioning system, the poor domestic setup, the horrific pitches pre-2019 which had players like Sadaf Hussain as the next coming of Mcgrath. Blame the PCB and blame the lack of good coaches, the development staff and everything that it takes to build up kids through U13's, U16's, U19's before coming into the awful domestic system.

 

[Mohraheem]

Yes he is… he is only staying so his son can get selected easily into the international side… Pcb needs to set a rule.. anyone who gets fired or quits. Should be allowed in PCB

 

[daytrader]

I'm not belieber but even if I was, it doesn't take away from the fact that you've come to a realization that we can win with spin at home. Something Misbah saw years ago. It's a trick we missed and we could've avoided the humiliation of past 3 years if some common sense was used.

The spin trend arose during the era of Misbah-ul-Haq.

Thanks for giving credit where it's due Shazzy boi. To back your claim, both the stars of the show, Sajid and Noman, debuted under the coaching of Misbah

 

[BouncerGuy]

Misbah used the spin effectively. He had a poot fast bowling group.

He might have many bad things but he really turned UAE into a spin-fortress for Pakistan.

 

[Major]

It took pakistan 2 years to win a test at home yesterday, meanwhile Misbah maintain an unbeaten streak at home as coach and as captain.

But nahi jee, Misbah is the problem

 

[Aqib_mustafa]

It took pakistan 2 years to win a test at home yesterday, meanwhile Misbah maintain an unbeaten streak at home as coach and as captain.

But nahi jee, Misbah is the problem

Misbah always went for spin tracks admit it bro

 

[Aami]

Bechara Misbah, turns up in these threads to get a bashing now and then.
.....lago raho

 

[Majestic]

Pakistan has a poor cricketing structure and the system failed to produce world class professionals who could do well consistently. The individuals in power would usually do whatever that feels best at that time as their focus will always be on winning rather than the process. That’s what Misbah did and he had his own challenges which he had to dealt, playing in UAE understanding those tracks and adapting a style of play which he seemed was the need of hour. Perhaps, he failed in executing them that well especially in white ball and that’s why he gets a blame but as a test captain and senior player he did a pretty good job.

 

[mominsaigol]

It took pakistan 2 years to win a test at home yesterday, meanwhile Misbah maintain an unbeaten streak at home as coach and as captain.

But nahi jee, Misbah is the problem

Misbah as coach also maintained the destruction of the t20 side as well as had chacha flunk 2 super overs.

Usa game makes it 3 and yes I'm counting it as Misbah is the founder

 

[Mohraheem]

Misbah has ruined Pakistan cricket! He doesn’t want to quit because he wants his son to be selected! Pure corruption is being created now’’!

 

[Mohraheem]

It took pakistan 2 years to win a test at home yesterday, meanwhile Misbah maintain an unbeaten streak at home as coach and as captain.

But nahi jee, Misbah is the problem

Misbah is the problem… Misbah already quit /fired as a coach! Now he is flying like maaaakhiii around the team so his son can come into the international side. Pirchi 2.0 . Misbah phone calls players like Fakhar, Rizwan, he changes there ability and mind set into TUKTUk. Next day they are out for 2 or 0 runs. He is doing this so the door can open for his son!

 

[The_KING]

Pakistan's fast bowling is terrible: Misbah is the problem.
Pakistan's spin bowling is terrible: Misbah is the problem.
Pakistan's openers is terrible: Misbah is the problem.
Pakistan's middle order batsmen is terrible: Misbah is the problem.
Pakistan do not have any low order power hitters: Misbah is the problem.

Honestly, Misbah haters are pathetic who blame him for everything wrong with Pakistan cricket. I never knew Misbah was so powerful.

 

[moghul]

Look, Pakistan won and congratulations.

It was great to win at home and especially getting rid of the excess waste who have no spine or pride for playing for Pakistan.

But, how do you really feel, about 1/2 a seamer and 3 spinners doing the job?

The spin trend arose during the era of Misbah-ul-Haq.

Back in the day the likes of Wasim/Waqar ripped opposition apart, thenShoaib Akhtar complimented the attack and we witnessed the magic of Mohammad Asif.

Pakistan’s fast bowling resources were always praised and it was a matter of pride to be blessed with bowlers who instilled the fear of god in the batters eyes.

But when Misbah came along, it was all about playing it safe, batting big once and strangling the opposition with spin.

When Misbah left, he left the team in dire consequences because the fast bowling resources had completely diminished.

Now that Pakistan have won after some time with spinners, I fear that we’ve seen the last of the dying breed that was a quintessential Pakistani fast bowling attack and Misbah is to blame.

Misbah destroyed Pakistan cricket not with spinners , rather with two chukkers, Saeed Ajmal and Hafeez who were later banned but not sure why their record were not expunged, should have been . As a Pakistan cricket follower I'm not proud of those wins by Pakistan on substandard UAE wickets exploits by two chuckers and that number #1 test ranking for short period of time .

 

[topspin]

Pakistan's fast bowling is terrible: Misbah is the problem.
Pakistan's spin bowling is terrible: Misbah is the problem.
Pakistan's openers is terrible: Misbah is the problem.
Pakistan's middle order batsmen is terrible: Misbah is the problem.
Pakistan do not have any low order power hitters: Misbah is the problem.

Honestly, Misbah haters are pathetic who blame him for everything wrong with Pakistan cricket. I never knew Misbah was so powerful.

Misbah fans like you part of the problem when it comes to Pakistan's demise. You tolerate this because either you don't care about the best interests of Pakistan cricket i.e. being a cult follower of Misbah or you don't understand cricket, so you don't have the ability to see the wrongs that were made by your hero.

Misbah had a substandard cricketing IQ. A good example of this is if we go back to the 2015/16 tour of Australia, he bowled Yasir Shah to the ground with all the fielders on the leg-side. Have you ever wondered why he was like this? It's because he didn't possess the innovative mind to come up good fielding placements for the pacers against the likes of Warner, Smith and etc.

Misbah destroyed the psych of Pakistan cricket in more ways than one. Firstly, he had a preference for timid kittens such as Azhar Ali and Asad Shafiq because they adhered to his passive brand of cricket. Secondly, he was proud of introducing cake cutting celebrations for all 5fers and tons even during lost causes. It was embarrassing to see the team celebrating Shafiq's Brisbane ton in a lost cause. Finally, he set a terrible precedent by prolonging his career up until his 40s because it's given our players a firm belief that they can continue to play at the highest level until they're 40. The damage is there for everyone to see. Look at Ifti, who couldn't connect any one of those three full tosses he faced during that WT20 game against India, earlier this year.

 

[aboveandbeyond]

No. The fault lies with Tait and Morkel, who were clueless especially in sub-continent conditions. They had no clear plans, nor clarity, when coaching the seamers, hence, loss of form, confidence, and pace.

 

[aboveandbeyond]

No. The fault lies with Tait and Morkel, who were clueless especially in sub-continent conditions. They had no clear plans, nor clarity, when coaching the seamers, hence, loss of form, confidence, and pace.

Also under Mickey Arthur tenure, fitness was not taken seriously.

‘Shocking’: Hafeez exposes fitness crises of Pakistan cricket team | The Express Tribune

Former captain points finger at former coaches and Babar Azam

tribune.com.pk

 

[Mohraheem]

Pakistan's fast bowling is terrible: Misbah is the problem.
Pakistan's spin bowling is terrible: Misbah is the problem.
Pakistan's openers is terrible: Misbah is the problem.
Pakistan's middle order batsmen is terrible: Misbah is the problem.
Pakistan do not have any low order power hitters: Misbah is the problem.

Honestly, Misbah haters are pathetic who blame him for everything wrong with Pakistan cricket. I never knew Misbah was so powerful.

We are proud haters! If you’re not a hater! There is a lack of Cricket Knowledge.. “that’s what Misbah fans theory is.” Misbah ko itnaaa unchaaa nahy charahooo. He is pathetic

 

[Mohraheem]

Misbah fans like you part of the problem when it comes to Pakistan's demise. You tolerate this because either you don't care about the best interests of Pakistan cricket i.e. being a cult follower of Misbah or you don't understand cricket, so you don't have the ability to see the wrongs that were made by your hero.

Misbah had a substandard cricketing IQ. A good example of this is if we go back to the 2015/16 tour of Australia, he bowled Yasir Shah to the ground with all the fielders on the leg-side. Have you ever wondered why he was like this? It's because he didn't possess the innovative mind to come up good fielding placements for the pacers against the likes of Warner, Smith and etc.

Misbah destroyed the psych of Pakistan cricket in more ways than one. Firstly, he had a preference for timid kittens such as Azhar Ali and Asad Shafiq because they adhered to his passive brand of cricket. Secondly, he was proud of introducing cake cutting celebrations for all 5fers and tons even during lost causes. It was embarrassing to see the team celebrating Shafiq's Brisbane ton in a lost cause. Finally, he set a terrible precedent by prolonging his career up until his 40s because it's given our players a firm belief that they can continue to play at the highest level until they're 40. The damage is there for everyone to see. Look at Ifti, who couldn't connect any one of those three full tosses he faced during that WT20 game against India, earlier this year.

This!!!! But again bro they won’t learn. When Pakistan is playing they are actually watching Misbah’s highlight on YouTube. They don’t watch cricket. They lack knowledge in cricket

 

[shaz619]

Pakistan's fast bowling is terrible: Misbah is the problem.
Pakistan's spin bowling is terrible: Misbah is the problem.
Pakistan's openers is terrible: Misbah is the problem.
Pakistan's middle order batsmen is terrible: Misbah is the problem.
Pakistan do not have any low order power hitters: Misbah is the problem.

Honestly, Misbah haters are pathetic who blame him for everything wrong with Pakistan cricket. I never knew Misbah was so powerful.

During his time as a player he didn’t do the fast bowling stocks any favours and he set a dangerous precedent, later he was given unforeseen control with his dual coach / selector role which his die hard fans didn’t have an issue with or his lack of ethics with taking on such a position right after being on the panel which would get rid of his predecessor. To this day he remains involved whether indirectly/directly with the players and board, we have players publicly commenting on position’s he has asked them to bat at and we act like this is all cool, he doesn’t have an official role with the team but his fans are fine with him disturbing the team when he has no right to, Pakistan Cricket is not Misbah’s baap’s team. Imagine Ole, despite leaving United was still advising players behind Ten Hag’s back….

 

[shaz619]

Misbah fans like you part of the problem when it comes to Pakistan's demise. You tolerate this because either you don't care about the best interests of Pakistan cricket i.e. being a cult follower of Misbah or you don't understand cricket, so you don't have the ability to see the wrongs that were made by your hero.

Misbah had a substandard cricketing IQ. A good example of this is if we go back to the 2015/16 tour of Australia, he bowled Yasir Shah to the ground with all the fielders on the leg-side. Have you ever wondered why he was like this? It's because he didn't possess the innovative mind to come up good fielding placements for the pacers against the likes of Warner, Smith and etc.

Misbah destroyed the psych of Pakistan cricket in more ways than one. Firstly, he had a preference for timid kittens such as Azhar Ali and Asad Shafiq because they adhered to his passive brand of cricket. Secondly, he was proud of introducing cake cutting celebrations for all 5fers and tons even during lost causes. It was embarrassing to see the team celebrating Shafiq's Brisbane ton in a lost cause. Finally, he set a terrible precedent by prolonging his career up until his 40s because it's given our players a firm belief that they can continue to play at the highest level until they're 40. The damage is there for everyone to see. Look at Ifti, who couldn't connect any one of those three full tosses he faced during that WT20 game against India, earlier this year.

We use to think Afridi was responsible for inspiring batters with terrible technique and destroying Pak batters when now, his legacy is aging so much better when you look at how relevant the cricket he played is within the modern era, while Misbah took Pakistan batting back to the late 50’s and is responsible for some truly non-sensical trends which you’ve described there, he has done considerable damage which will take a very long time to repair and you can’t do that repair job when he is still involved with the dressing room.

 

[Mohraheem]

Keep Misbah away from Pakistan…. He is creating backward defensive Tuktuk mentality

 

[mominsaigol]

We use to think Afridi was responsible for inspiring batters with terrible technique and destroying Pak batters when now, his legacy is aging so much better when you look at how relevant the cricket he played is within the modern era, while Misbah took Pakistan batting back to the late 50’s and is responsible for some truly non-sensical trends which you’ve described there, he has done considerable damage which will take a very long time to repair and you can’t do that repair job when he is still involved with the dressing room.

Afridi advocated for an attacking brand.

Misbah advocated for the opposite.

No wonder Yk told Misbah to take his pads off in 2009

 

[topspin]

We use to think Afridi was responsible for inspiring batters with terrible technique and destroying Pak batters when now, his legacy is aging so much better when you look at how relevant the cricket he played is within the modern era, while Misbah took Pakistan batting back to the late 50’s and is responsible for some truly non-sensical trends which you’ve described there, he has done considerable damage which will take a very long time to repair and you can’t do that repair job when he is still involved with the dressing room.

This is the thing, this same crowd has no issues for blaming Afridi for creating a culture of sloggers with poor defensive techniques but when Misbah took it to the other extreme, they play victim on his behalf.

Whilst Afridi should've done more with his God given talent, it's easy to forget that the Pakistan white ball team of the late 90s/early 2000s was actually well ahead of the curve. They were playing the modern game 15-20 years before it became the meta in the mid-2010s. Pakistan used Afridi as an opener which was revolutionary at the time because normally only those who could negotiate the new ball were opening the batting during that era. Also, Pakistan at the time were stacked with a deep batting line-up with plenty of hitters lower in the batting order with the likes of Razzaq, Azhar Mahmood and etc, similar to England post 2015 ODI WC, who had Adil Rashid batting at 11.

After the 2011 ODI WC, ODIs started to become an extension of T20Is. When ICC introduced two new balls in ODIs, all the other teams had changed their approach as it became a 330-350 scoring era. Whilst everyone were on board with this, the same Misbah was taking the team back to the 80s. He wanted defensive players at the top of the order and all those who could score briskly batting lower down the order. If you want to play Umar Akmal, you don't bat him at 6!

Misbah was one of the longest serving captains of Pakistan cricket and then returned as Head Coach/Chief Selector two years later. He changed the DNA and unfortunately you can't change the culture and the psyche of the team overnight.

 

[cricketAXEpert]

Ehh. How do you win in Asia without quality spin? Yes. The quality of pace has diminished but you should not be this dismissive of spin. Qadir, Saqlain and Mushtaq were huge part of Pakistan wins before the 21st century.

Yasir Shah was instrumental in Pakistan drawing the series in England in 2016. A 10 wicket haul at Lord's and fifer at the Oval.

When Pakistan won in Sydney (1995), it was Mushtaq Ahmed who took a 9 wicket haul. Same thing happened in Durban (1998). Mushtaq was at the forefront.

People like to harp on Shoaib picking Dravid and Tendulkar B2B in 1999, it was Saqlain leading the attack with 20 wickets in 2 tests.

Pakistan's last win in South Africa. Port Elizabeth 2007. Kaneria picked up 7 wickets.

Pakistan's decline in cricket has a lot to do with lack of a quality spinner. Since Yasir Shah's decline we haven't found a quality spinner. Pacer decline is due to PSL and easy money from T20 leagues.
But I must say Pakistan fans are truly unique, no other country has fans that hate their own players as much as Pak fans to do.

 

[Maliq_Mudasir]

Look, Pakistan won and congratulations.

It was great to win at home and especially getting rid of the excess waste who have no spine or pride for playing for Pakistan.

But, how do you really feel, about 1/2 a seamer and 3 spinners doing the job?

The spin trend arose during the era of Misbah-ul-Haq.

Back in the day the likes of Wasim/Waqar ripped opposition apart, thenShoaib Akhtar complimented the attack and we witnessed the magic of Mohammad Asif.

Pakistan’s fast bowling resources were always praised and it was a matter of pride to be blessed with bowlers who instilled the fear of god in the batters eyes.

But when Misbah came along, it was all about playing it safe, batting big once and strangling the opposition with spin.

When Misbah left, he left the team in dire consequences because the fast bowling resources had completely diminished.

Now that Pakistan have won after some time with spinners, I fear that we’ve seen the last of the dying breed that was a quintessential Pakistani fast bowling attack and Misbah is to blame.

When Misbah came your future Wasim and Waqar went to jail for chasing easy money. Did he have enough quality options? Misbah may be responsible for million wrongs things happened/happening with PCB, but this is certainly not one of them.

 

[imran1976]

We need wins , if spinners can do for us , than so be it - if fast bowlers can't win for us ( toa unka Achar dalna hai kya).

 

[BouncerGuy]

Misbah had a pretty horrible pace attack. Imagine rahat ali, imran khan etc. UAE pitches suited Spin so it would have never made sense to cry for a pacer legacy etc.

Lifting a test mace is no joke. He deserves the credit for it but now he should stay away from Pakistan setup.. we have moved forward or at least we should be.

 

[shaz619]

Wahab Riaz made his debut in that very series in 2010, what came of his career in Tests? how many Tests did Umar Gul play under Misbah? how were these guys managed? these are just two high profile names. Selections such as Rahat Ali, Chacha Imran Khan etc are more of a reflection on Misbah’s eye for fast bowling talent & development, in addition to his bias for players who he was friendly with (again this set the precedent for the dosti yaari culture we see today). During Imran’s reign you got Akram/Waqar, during Akram’s reign you got Zahid/Akhtar/Razzaq/Azhar, during Inzi’s you got Asif / rejuvenated Akhtar and under Butt you got Amir; the captain in Pakistan often gets credit for bringing these bowlers out of obscurity but when Misbah was made captain, and we saw very little support or investment in fast bowling you blame the available resources, if Misbah was captain during the 90’s you wouldn’t get any of those high profile quick bowlers, instead there would be three or four Chachu spinners who are due a hip replacement starting for Pak because they were Misbah’s table tennis partners from the department era pre-cricket kit burning.

 

[anikrc1]

Wahab Riaz made his debut in that very series in 2010, what came of his career in Tests? how many Tests did Umar Gul play under Misbah? how were these guys managed? these are just two high profile names. Selections such as Rahat Ali, Chacha Imran Khan etc are more of a reflection on Misbah’s eye for fast bowling talent & development, in addition to his bias for players who he was friendly with (again this set the precedent for the dosti yaari culture we see today). During Imran’s reign you got Akram/Waqar, during Akram’s reign you got Zahid/Akhtar/Razzaq/Azhar, during Inzi’s you got Asif / rejuvenated Akhtar and under Butt you got Amir; the captain in Pakistan often gets credit for bringing these bowlers out of obscurity but when Misbah was made captain, and we saw very little support or investment in fast bowling you blame the available resources, if Misbah was captain during the 90’s you wouldn’t get any of those high profile quick bowlers, instead there would be three or four Chachu spinners who are due a hip replacement starting for Pak because they were Misbah’s table tennis partners from the department era pre-cricket kit burning.

Misbah's results was the second best after Imran. Unbeaten in UAE. Series win in NZ, WI, and Srilanka. Draw in England. South Africa and Australia are the only two place he failed in. During the 90's and early 2000s Pakistan lost 2 series to Aus at home, and 1 each to SA, England, zimbabwe, srilanka and India. 7 series lost where Pakistan were the hosts.

 

[FastBowlingAllrounder]

Wahab Riaz made his debut in that very series in 2010, what came of his career in Tests? how many Tests did Umar Gul play under Misbah? how were these guys managed? these are just two high profile names. Selections such as Rahat Ali, Chacha Imran Khan etc are more of a reflection on Misbah’s eye for fast bowling talent & development, in addition to his bias for players who he was friendly with (again this set the precedent for the dosti yaari culture we see today). During Imran’s reign you got Akram/Waqar, during Akram’s reign you got Zahid/Akhtar/Razzaq/Azhar, during Inzi’s you got Asif / rejuvenated Akhtar and under Butt you got Amir; the captain in Pakistan often gets credit for bringing these bowlers out of obscurity but when Misbah was made captain, and we saw very little support or investment in fast bowling you blame the available resources, if Misbah was captain during the 90’s you wouldn’t get any of those high profile quick bowlers, instead there would be three or four Chachu spinners who are due a hip replacement starting for Pak because they were Misbah’s table tennis partners from the department era pre-cricket kit burning.

I wouldn't necessarily give Butt credit for Amir, plus Amir was banned by the time Misbah was made skipper - maybe Amir would've been Misbah's ace of pace like you said...

The one thing people overlook with Misbah's reign and all (and this is only limited to Tests, not talking about white-ball) is that he was given a very specific set of circumstances which, regardless of how bad things have been, I don't think any Test captain has been given in the past, Pakistani or not.

The pace attack and the previous skipper were sitting in jail, the last home tour had seen the visiting team get shots fired at them (relocating the team to a completely new "home" ground with new "home" conditions), followership and support for cricket kinda peaked during the T20WW'09 and was now declining rapidly due to changing domestic situation in Pakistan as well as the disappointment after the Hussey hammering and upset in the 2010 SF.

Based on the hand he was given, he played the circumstances quite well and I think any other person would have eventually adopted the same formula as him (i.e., spin to win on turning UAE surfaces). If someone else did it, we'd be sitting here saying xyz didn't develop any attacking fast bowlers.

I do agree that there were some talents he could have developed, M. Sami is one that comes to mind. But then again, would he have performed well on the barren pitches in the UAE, or was it better to get the line-and-length bowlers like Rahat and Imran Khan who held up an end while Yasir, Zulfiqar Babar, Ajmal, or whoever tore up the other end? Ultimately his strategy did get us to #1 ranked in Tests.

Now, yes, there were downsides of such a strat, including the absolute mauling received in Australia in the '17 tour, SA in 2013, and NZ in 2016 (iirc). So, in a way you're right, he didn't have any true fast bowlers to fall back on and this hurt him in overseas tours where pitches favour out-and-out quicks. Yet, he still drew in Eng and WI.

Long story short, you can never win everything and this is particularly the case when the circumstances are as dire as they were when he took the helm of the Test side. Given those circumstances, I think anyone else would have done the same thing too.

I mean, as a thought experiment, what if Akram and Waqar spot fixed their way into a UK jail and Imran was suddenly forced to play all his Tests in Dubai?

 

[FastBowlingAllrounder]

Wahab Riaz made his debut in that very series in 2010, what came of his career in Tests? how many Tests did Umar Gul play under Misbah? how were these guys managed? these are just two high profile names. Selections such as Rahat Ali, Chacha Imran Khan etc are more of a reflection on Misbah’s eye for fast bowling talent & development, in addition to his bias for players who he was friendly with (again this set the precedent for the dosti yaari culture we see today). During Imran’s reign you got Akram/Waqar, during Akram’s reign you got Zahid/Akhtar/Razzaq/Azhar, during Inzi’s you got Asif / rejuvenated Akhtar and under Butt you got Amir; the captain in Pakistan often gets credit for bringing these bowlers out of obscurity but when Misbah was made captain, and we saw very little support or investment in fast bowling you blame the available resources, if Misbah was captain during the 90’s you wouldn’t get any of those high profile quick bowlers, instead there would be three or four Chachu spinners who are due a hip replacement starting for Pak because they were Misbah’s table tennis partners from the department era pre-cricket kit burning.

Also, I think Gul started having recurring knee issues after 2012 and was in-and-out and never quite the same again. If he'd been fit and firing till, say, 2016 and Misbah refused to pick him then your point is valid but I think it's unfair to overlook the player's own form and fitness.

Also, while Misbah did what he did, I don't think that can be used as an excuse by the current captain/setup to not develop any fast bowlers.

 

[Jazx]

There is no one responsible, misbah don't have the resources so he relied on spin in uae. And whats wrong with that, he did the right thing as per the conditions. Instead of it playing 4 pacers in first test on a flat deck in multan was an absolute dumb decision. If anyone is responsible for this decline, its the fast bowlers themselves who have no idea about complete skills of fast bowling and the hard work needed to nurture themselves.

 

[IMMY69]

Combination of T20 leagues and the inherent greed of our people is probably the root cause of our fast bowling problems.

I believe during his captaincy Misbah played with the hand that he was given and did really well in the test arena. Post captaincy, the two new balls in ODI's destroyed our usual game plan of containment using spinners in the middle overs. But we do just about ok in the limited stuff because we have enough fast bowlers to do the job... but none of these guys have the skills or the patience to be great in tests, barring the odd performance here and there.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Misbah had a pretty horrible pace attack. Imagine rahat ali, imran khan etc. UAE pitches suited Spin so it would have never made sense to cry for a pacer legacy etc.

Lifting a test mace is no joke. He deserves the credit for it but now he should stay away from Pakistan setup.. we have moved forward or at least we should be.

Rahat Ali career was a disappointment. He had the potential to be a good bowler. He was tall brisk and could move the ball but had no brains.

 

[shaz619]

Also, I think Gul started having recurring knee issues after 2012 and was in-and-out and never quite the same again. If he'd been fit and firing till, say, 2016 and Misbah refused to pick him then your point is valid but I think it's unfair to overlook the player's own form and fitness.

Also, while Misbah did what he did, I don't think that can be used as an excuse by the current captain/setup to not develop any fast bowlers.

I take your point on Gul, but the mismanagement of such quicks occurred during his reign, those pitches were dead (no effort to look at how they could help pacers either) and I don’t feel Gul was used efficiently which accelerated his injuries and the rehab was non-existent, this can be extended to how he used Ajmal as well and his deteriorating action but I would say the quicks especially the high profile ones, suffered the worst because there was no common sense or forward thinking on how to get the most out of fast bowlers in the UAE.

 

[FastBowlingAllrounder]

I take your point on Gul, but the mismanagement of such quicks occurred during his reign, those pitches were dead (no effort to look at how they could help pacers either) and I don’t feel Gul was used efficiently which accelerated his injuries and the rehab was non-existent, this can be extended to how he used Ajmal as well and his deteriorating action but I would say the quicks especially the high profile ones, suffered the worst because there was no common sense or forward thinking on how to get the most out of fast bowlers in the UAE.

Hmm, I do agree. But rehab and injury-management of quicks (and other players in general) has been a chronic weakness of Pakistan as a cricket board. The problem has persisted well after Misbah's departure so I wouldn't say the blame for that rests squarely on his shoulder.

Yes, perhaps he could've done more to see how quicks can be better utilised in the UAE but at the same time I also understand and empathise with the mentality that spin was working and working exceptionally well so he simply chose to stick with that. Again, anyone else in his position would've probably done the same, otherwise it's unlikely they would've achieved the same results.

 

[Markhor]

Look, Pakistan won and congratulations.

It was great to win at home and especially getting rid of the excess waste who have no spine or pride for playing for Pakistan.

But, how do you really feel, about 1/2 a seamer and 3 spinners doing the job?

The spin trend arose during the era of Misbah-ul-Haq.

Back in the day the likes of Wasim/Waqar ripped opposition apart, thenShoaib Akhtar complimented the attack and we witnessed the magic of Mohammad Asif.

Pakistan’s fast bowling resources were always praised and it was a matter of pride to be blessed with bowlers who instilled the fear of god in the batters eyes.

But when Misbah came along, it was all about playing it safe, batting big once and strangling the opposition with spin.

When Misbah left, he left the team in dire consequences because the fast bowling resources had completely diminished.

Now that Pakistan have won after some time with spinners, I fear that we’ve seen the last of the dying breed that was a quintessential Pakistani fast bowling attack and Misbah is to blame.

I think the pivot to spin was due to UAE conditions than Misbah's preference or the spot fixing scandal. Even if Amir and Asif were available, they'd struggle to get much out of those pitches where spin is king.

Our domestic cricket was also churning out lots of decent spinners from Saeed Ajmal (chucking issues accepted), Abdul Rehman, Yasir Shah, Zulfi Cobra, Raza Hasan etc.

Don't get me wrong it could be dull watching Uncle Zulf bowl arm ball after arm ball, especially for those who grew up seeing 2Ws or Shoaib, but the results couldn't be argued with.

As for the current team, they need to find a winning formula at home and if spin is the way so be it. However there's definitely space for another seamer. It's unsustainable relying on an all-rounder with injury problems as your sole frontline pacer. Zahid Mehmood is barely a Sunday League spinner, so he can be swapped out for another seamer.