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Is Rohit Sharma an ODI ATG?

M

Majestic

Tape Ball Regular
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Runs
489
A failure in test but ODI reveals a different story. 5000+ runs, 17 hundreds and Averages 56 as an opener. He also has got 3 scores of 200+ and in total 5 scores of 150+.

Overall, an average of 46 at a Strike Rate of 87. Do you think he is an ATG in ODI and where will you rank among greatest Indian ODI players of all-time?
 
An Indian great in ODIs, but not an ATG material irrespective of what stats say.

Among the Indian batsmen, I would say, in order:-

Tendulkar
Kohli
Dhoni
Ganguly
Yuvraj
Sehwag
Dhawan

These names are ahead.
 
Nope, he might get there in future but his stats have far too many holes. His median is very low compared to mean (means inconsistency). Also his stats in SEN isn't very good.
 
He has made a massive impact on the ODI game, so I don’t think it is out of question if he finishes his career well.
 
If he can continuously keep it up for another 2-3 years, we can have some sort of discussion about it.

At the moment, he is insanely talented, so its not above him to keep going and carve a niche as an ODI ATG as he ends his career.
 
A couple of more years of this and a good show in WC19 would certainly put him in the league of ODI ATGs.
 
Joseph Gomes said:
Nope, he might get there in future but his stats have far too many holes. His median is very low compared to mean (means inconsistency). Also his stats in SEN isn't very good.
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Can you show me the data for this? Because I think that what you are saying is wrong.
 
Joseph Gomes said:
Nope, he might get there in future but his stats have far too many holes. His median is very low compared to mean (means inconsistency). Also his stats in SEN isn't very good.
Click to expand...

He has exceptional stats in England, while NZ numbers too aren't bad.

South Africa is the only country where he looks clueless.
 
Joseph Gomes said:
Seems like I did a mistake there. Not sure why he is so bad in SAF.
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Think it has something to do with England and NZ having the flattest pitches in the world whereas in South Africa you can still get good rewards if you bowl the right areas.

Disclaimer : This is not a criticism of Rohit.
 
the_outsider said:
Can you show me the data for this? Because I think that what you are saying is wrong.
Click to expand...

Mean vs median difference would make sense only if compared to other great batsmen. Otherwise for most top cricketers median will always be less than mean, as good cricketers when they cross 15-20 end up scoring 50s. I am sure @joseph_gomes didn't check it for other batsmen. Would like to see median vs mean difference for Lara, I am sure it would be one of the highest.

Btw I am not contesting whether or not RG is ATG as I am kinda indifferent to it.
 
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Not yet but if he has 4-5 good years he will be one.

Tendulkar has 18k runs. Anyone with a claim on ATG status must at least score half the runs at least.
 
Joseph Gomes said:
Seems like I did a mistake there. Not sure why he is so bad in SAF.
Click to expand...

Sharma ji has actually inflated his stats by bashing Bangladesh in England twice and his one hundred in SA came this year on an absolute flat SC type of pitch with no bounce at all. His 91 of 119 balls vs Pak in CT 2017 wasn't all that good because he was tuk-tuking for a good part of that match, which is why Yuvraj with a score of 53 of 31 balls was the one who eventually got the M.O.M and not Rohit.

Pitches are mostly flat these days but still there are some games where you will find conditions a bit testing for batsmen and Rohit has failed on those conditions most of the times.

He is a country great in ODIs due to the fact that he can really go to sixth gear but for ATG, the benchmark is higher. Smashing Ban, SL and third string Aus attack is not enough for ATG level.
 
Ab Fan said:
Sharma ji has actually inflated his stats by bashing Bangladesh in England twice and his one hundred in SA came this year on an absolute flat SC type of pitch with no bounce at all. His 91 of 119 balls vs Pak in CT 2017 wasn't all that good because he was tuk-tuking for a good part of that match, which is why Yuvraj with a score of 53 of 31 balls was the one who eventually got the M.O.M and not Rohit.

Pitches are mostly flat these days but still there are some games where you will find conditions a bit testing for batsmen and Rohit has failed on those conditions most of the times.

He is a country great in ODIs due to the fact that he can really go to sixth gear but for ATG, the benchmark is higher. Smashing Ban, SL and third string Aus attack is not enough for ATG level.
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Rohit Sharma's trouble against the moving ball in ODIs has been grossly overstated, probably due to his red ball game clouding the judgement of the observer.

Even back in the early days, I remember him scoring a fantastic 50 on a green mamba pitch against SA in the 07WC against the likes of Pollock and Ntini.

In the CB series in 2008 he was great again. This was when he was 20-21 years old, btw.

And it is completely false to say that he only does well in flat pitches with no bounce and seam. One look at his record in Australia and NZ will show that. He scored a 171* at Perth, of all places. 'Nuf said.
 
Joseph Gomes said:
Avg in Eng - 44
Avg in NZ - 35
Avg in SAF- 28
Click to expand...

Like [MENTION=146612]BlackShadow[/MENTION] said this are wrong figures.

But even so, you're still showing me mean figures. I thought your argument was about median. Do you have those numbers?
 
the_outsider said:
Rohit Sharma's trouble against the moving ball in ODIs has been grossly overstated, probably due to his red ball game clouding the judgement of the observer.

Even back in the early days, I remember him scoring a fantastic 50 on a green mamba pitch against SA in the 07WC against the likes of Pollock and Ntini.

In the CB series in 2008 he was great again. This was when he was 20-21 years old, btw.

And it is completely false to say that he only does well in flat pitches with no bounce and seam. One look at his record in Australia and NZ will show that. He scored a 171* at Perth, of all places. 'Nuf said.
Click to expand...

I have followed his career and I only care of my own judgement. That 171 was against a mediocre Australian attack on a patta where he scored that many runs facing 163 balls. It was one of those matches where Sharma ji started so slowly that it eventually costed his team 20-25 runs. If he had paced his inning better, India would have got 20-25 runs more and as a result, they won't have lost that match.

In some way or other, he was one of the reasons why India lost that match. So, a very good inning but not a great one.
 
Ab Fan said:
I have followed his career and I only care of my own judgement. That 171 was against a mediocre Australian attack on a patta where he scored that many runs facing 163 balls. It was one of those matches where Sharma ji started so slowly that it eventually costed his team 20-25 runs. If he had paced his inning better, India would have got 20-25 runs more and as a result, they won't have lost that match.

In some way or other, he was one of the reasons why India lost that match. So, a very good inning but not a great one.
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Sorry man but that makes no sense.

The next highest score was 91 by Kohli at a SR of 90. No other batsman even scored 20. And the bolwing lineup was not bad. Only Starc was missing. Hazlewood, Paris, etc were all playing.

And AUS won that game in the 50th over. We lost that game because of our bowlers. It's crazy to blame the defeat on the batsman who scored 60% of the team's runs.
 
Impactful knocks at the WC and another 2/3 years of consistency should be enough for him to earn ATG ODI status.
 
A good world cup and a good series in SA should get him there. Averaging 55 as an opener is insanely good.
 
He needs a World cup and couple of years more of consistency. He is close to ATG.
 
He is right up there now.

Batting average 48+

22 ODI centuries

Clutch player!

One of the most dangerous batsmen ever.
 
fighting all alone in this match. What a player! If he gets in, he is very dangerous.
 
Definitely an ODI ATG. His record as an opener has been phenomenal in last 5 years or so.
 
100%. One good WC and he will be a tier 1 ATG and will be among top 6 ODI batsman of all time as well.

Viv
Tendulkar
Kohli
ABD
Ponting
Rohit
Dhoni
 
There is nothing called ODI ATG....you become great by only performing well in test cricket. Having said that, Sharma along with Dhawan are the best white ball openers in the world.
 
Indian ATG ODI batsman for sure. But not ATG world level.
ATG level is Kohli, Sachin, Viv Richards, Ponting etc.
Don't compare stats because this era is so much more batting friendly.
 
Minnowbasher said:
Indian ATG ODI batsman for sure. But not ATG world level.
ATG level is Kohli, Sachin, Viv Richards, Ponting etc.
Don't compare stats because this era is so much more batting friendly.
Click to expand...

How much more? Rohit averages around 11 points more than Sachin as a opener (59 vs 48). Surely that's enough to offset the difference in batting conditions?
 
Minnowbasher said:
Indian ATG ODI batsman for sure. But not ATG world level.
ATG level is Kohli, Sachin, Viv Richards, Ponting etc.
Don't compare stats because this era is so much more batting friendly.
Click to expand...

You don't need to compare stats to older players. You need to compare stats to peer. Nobody comes close to Rohit as opener in ODIs. He is in a completely different league to other openers currently.
 
He could finish as one. Great player. Improved massively in last few years
 
I think he will finish as an ODI great. When in form, he's literally unstoppable.
 
Almost there I will say. Brilliant peak, 2013-2018, i.e, 6 years now.
 
Indian ODI XI all-time: -

Sachin
Rohit
Kohli
Ganguly/Azharuddin
Yuvraj
Dhoni(C/wkt)
Kapil
Kumble
Kuldeep
Zaheer
Bumrah
 
Rohit has gone through one of the greatest peaks ever. The guy is superhuman. Wonder when he will decline.
 
Ab Fan said:
He averages 20 in ODIs.
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I think his point is that Kuldeep has barely played enough ODI's to be considered for an all time XI, especially for a nation with such rich cricketing history!
 
hadi123 said:
I think his point is that Kuldeep has barely played enough ODI's to be considered for an all time XI, especially for a nation with such rich cricketing history!
Click to expand...

We never had a high quality ODI spinner. The best we have put up are Kumble and Harbhajan. Kuldeep has got 4-fers in England and South Africa.
 
Needs to survive over number 1 from Amir first, like I keep seeing it happen all the time before we raise his credentials as a potential/ODI ATG. :P
 
He's a complete ODI player. There's not many better hitters when set. Can absolutely destroy any bowler once he gets his eye in
 
Ab Fan said:
We never had a high quality ODI spinner. The best we have put up are Kumble and Harbhajan. Kuldeep has got 4-fers in England and South Africa.
Click to expand...

Has to do with novelty factor. Eng played him well after a few games. He's good but not ATG yet
 
rhony said:
Has to do with novelty factor. Eng played him well after a few games. He's good but not ATG yet
Click to expand...

England played him well in final ODI but still its a long process. He has had a dream start and hasn't been exposed by anyone. Doing well for India and certainly this bowling has strengthened by the addition of Bumrah and Kuldeep only.
 
With 23 ODI centuries already he definitely stands right among the best ones.

He now has more centuries than Saurav Ganguly.
 
I guess I haven't been following stats for a long time now as I'm getting older but I think it's crazy that he has 8000 runs and I've only seen him bat on less than a handful of occasions! He will most certainly finish as ATG status statistically for ODIs - in the past there is no way that I would have seen so little of the career of a batsman with >8000 runs - even if he is from another team!

It's probably down to the fact that he hasn't played against Pakistan as much as the old Indian ATGs and as a Pakistani I'm much more likelier to rate players who perform against us.
 
Can any batsman in this era be termed atg when the game is so heavily tilted in the batsmans favour?
All these greats would not be so great if they played in the 80s and 90s.
sachin, ganguly, inzi, anwar etc are far superior to kohli, rohits, babars etc!
 
Captain caveman said:
GIVEAWAY:
When todays atg's cant handle amir, what chance would they have against AKRAM!
Click to expand...

Amir in terms of achievements is still a nobody. Irfan Pathan literally has a way better career.

Can’t use a couple of spells in favourable conditions and with added tournament/scoreboard pressure to put down someone’s achievements over years and years of cricket.

23 centuries don’t come just like that and like someone already mentioned Rohit already put him in place in the Asia Cup.
 
Yes. I will have him ahead of Jayasuriya and Gilchrist in my all-time ODI XI.
 
He is a v good player but is suspect against left arm inswing and is also a very shaky starter in general... He looks like a rookie for first 10/12 balls...

However once set, he is a delight to watch, the double hundreds are a testimony to that...
 
zulfiqar said:
I guess I haven't been following stats for a long time now as I'm getting older but I think it's crazy that he has 8000 runs and I've only seen him bat on less than a handful of occasions! He will most certainly finish as ATG status statistically for ODIs - in the past there is no way that I would have seen so little of the career of a batsman with >8000 runs - even if he is from another team!

It's probably down to the fact that he hasn't played against Pakistan as much as the old Indian ATGs and as a Pakistani I'm much more likelier to rate players who perform against us.
Click to expand...

Wait a second guys.. looking at the bangla vs nz scorecard.. Ross Taylor has almost identical stats to Rohit Sharma. We have a lot of ODI ATGs it seems...

Ross: 8k runs at 48.5 with 20 centuries
 
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MP2011 said:
Lol, at least see complete innings before commenting on it.
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zulfiqar said:
Wait a second guys.. looking at the bangla vs nz scorecard.. Ross Taylor has almost identical stats to Rohit Sharma. We have a lot of ODI ATGs it seems...

Ross: 8k runs at 48.5
Click to expand...

Ross has been phenomenal over the years and especially in last few.

Rohit’s stats should be seen with a filter post he switched to he openers role. He’s averaging 60 as an opener.
 
The game has changed so much.

I have never seen such high averages at such high strike rates among so many different players across all the teams.

In the old days, Saeed Anwar had an oustanding record, averaging just under 40 at a s/r of 80+. That was unusual back then. Now it would be almost bad. But Anwar was far superior to many batsmen averaging in the mid 40s to 50s today.
 
So I was intrigued and did a quick search of all batsmen with 8000+ runs in ODIs. There are a total of 31 players, of which only 5 are still active (span includes 2019):

Chris Gayle with 10201 runs @38.2
MS Dhoni with 10534 runs @50.64
Ross Taylor with 8087 runs @ 48.71
Rohit Sharma with 8132 runs @48.11
Virat Kohli with 10861 runs @59.34

I think it's quite fair to say that one batsman stands out as an ODI legend (Virat Kohli) while the rest are probably going to be good enough to qualify as ATGs if they somewhat maintain their stats. Plus, the fact that there are "only" 31 players total in the history of the game to have scores 8k runs, it automatically puts these batsman in an elite tier of players, especially statistically.

On the other hand, if you want to rate these players without the tunnel-vision of just statistics, it's fair to say that MS Dhoni stands out as someone who has achieved the most - contributing more directly to a WC win, providing India with a finisher (along with Yuvraj Singh who is also on this list of 8k+ players), and also being a captain.

I'd say that if the other guys on that list want to be legends, they need to do something more: lead their teams to championships or play when the chips are down, etc. This includes Kohli too which reflects what I've heard from Indian cricket fans (friends/coworkers).
 
freelance_cricketer said:
Amir in terms of achievements is still a nobody. Irfan Pathan literally has a way better career.

Can’t use a couple of spells in favourable conditions and with added tournament/scoreboard pressure to put down someone’s achievements over years and years of cricket.

23 centuries don’t come just like that and like someone already mentioned Rohit already put him in place in the Asia Cup.
Click to expand...
You've misunderstood my post!
Amir is inferior to akram but causes these atg of todays problems, akram would have destroyed them!
I was trying to explain that stats are pointless when the game has been tilted so much in favour of batsman!
lol Irfan better than amir!
 
geraltofrivia said:
Amir was manhandled in Dubai by Rohit the last two times they met but I am sure you have conveniently erased that from your memory.
Click to expand...
I am not having a rohit vs amir contest!
Yes rohit has got the better of a declining amir of late, but theres no arguing amir of the past has caus
 
Captain caveman said:
I am not having a rohit vs amir contest!
Yes rohit has got the better of a declining amir of late, but theres no arguing amir of the past has caus
Click to expand...
Caused him significant problems and got him out cheaply.
Howevever, this is not my point.
If amir can trouble him, then akram would of destroyed him. Players like ganguly are far superior than rohit. Just easy times for batsman these days.
 
Captain caveman said:
You've misunderstood my post!
Amir is inferior to akram but causes these atg of todays problems, akram would have destroyed them!
I was trying to explain that stats are pointless when the game has been tilted so much in favour of batsman!
lol Irfan better than amir!
Click to expand...

Irfan is actually better than Amir. Nothing to laugh about it. Amir takes what 9 wickets in 10 games lol. He’s not achieved in anything in cricket apart from a 5 year ban which he will be remembered for and that’s about it.

It’s interesting how you are reading too much into one odd Amir spell with score board pressure and English conditions and complete overlooking everything Sharma has done in years against the best of bowlers Amir is not even part of.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Not a bad way to start your ICCCWC2019 Rohit Sharma. He opens in my all time ODI eleven.</p>— ian bishop (@irbishi) <a href="https://twitter.com/irbishi/status/1136314553845846021?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 5, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
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