Is Shivnarine Chanderpaul a Test ATG and going by his FC runs should he still be playing for WI?

[yasir_shah_fan]

Out of all the batsman that average 50+ in test cricket where does Shivnarine Chanderpaul rank? such as MoYo, Younis Khan and etc given that he isn't in the league of Tendulkar, Lara, ponting,Dravid, Sanga etc when it comes to batsman who played during his time.

Going by his mediocre averages against pace and spin (both around 30-35), he bumped his test average with large number of not out scores and with a very low SR, he wasn't an impact player so in my view his average and number of hundreds obscure his actual calibre. For instance there are several players who have weaker stats than him who average 45-50 like Clarke, KP, Inzy and etc. You don't hear Shiv named alongside these calibre of players. Furthermore as a player did he just play for his average and was selfish with his slow style of batting?

Or

Could it just be we haven't taken great notice because he isn't aesthetically pleasing? To average over 50 in the following countries is a very good achievement:

In England averaged 66.62 @ SR 47
In India averaged 52 @ SR 49
In West Indies 58.37 @ SR 41.95 (Darren Bravo averages under 30 at home)

In addition to make 30 test hundreds in your whole career you must have something special to have that kind off longevity to have 164 test caps. No Pakistan player has anywhere near that amount.

Second part of this Discussion

Should he still be playing for WI? I feel it's very harsh he didn't get a farewell but watching him last year go 10-12 tests averaging around 20 showed he was well past it. Has to be said he seemed like a very stubborn individual who had no intentions of calling his test retirement, felt like he had to be forced out.

On the other hand, he's churning more runs than virtually any other batsman in their FC set up, so on merit one could say he's better than some of the existing batsman in the current XI (Samuels comes to mind). He's also the same age as Misbah, could argue his age isn't a barrier if he's scoring runs at domestic level on some poor wickets...

There is has been a conspiracy surrounding his test axing where he was removed from selection to prevent him from breaking Brian Lara's record. Do you this an open secret or just mere speculation?

 

[Markhor]

Given the frailty of the West Indies batting lineup over the years, I'm not surprised by Shiv's low SR. He's had little support from the other batsmen post-Lara. He's an eyesore to watch but his consistency is remarkable.

Yes he had a blip in form in his last 11 innings yet Marlon Samuels, another senior batsman, has been given a free ride in Test cricket for so long despite his poor form in recent years.

I think WI should've given him the rest of the 2015 home summer, allowing him to play the two home tests v Australia before coming to a decision. His exit wasn't handled well given Shiv's service to WI cricket.

 

[Ab Fan]

When you play for a weak team, its important to move up the order and lead the responsibility.

Chanderpaul never moved up order and preferred to come when chips were down.He lacked impact with bat as he didn't took the initiative in a weaker team.

I guess he avgs below 40 in 3 countries too.Anyways, still don't rate him much.

He is like AB/COOK in tests and Dravid in odis.

A great player at best.

 

[jusarrived]

Not enough impact innings , it does not matter how weak your team is every batsmen gets an opportunity to play some innings to win or draw matches for his team , infact you could argue the opportunities to be a standout is more in weaker teams . Chandra just hasnt played enough quality innings .

 

[90MPH]

A very good Test bat but that was about it.

He didn't protect the tail enough and was playing for himself at times.

I remember one poster compared him to Javed Miandad and another claimed (Joshila) that he was indeed better than Miandad.

What a joke, there is a time and place for comedy

 

[Ellipsism]

My first memories of watching Chanderpual bat was in 2004, he tired down the bowlers with his resistance rather than elegant stroke making, frustrating fans whom were anticipating typically flamboyant calypso cricket, but made a huge impression on me with his sheer force of will, concentration and patience.

Back then, Chanderpaul was already regarded as a senior member of the West Indies team. At that time and still today the Windies are trying to rebuild their team after the glory days in 80's and 90's. The rebuilding process was a disaster: of the eleven players that featured in that particular test only Chanderpaul played in Gros Islet.

And yet Chanderpaul has frequently been labelled as selfish. A few have accused him of batting for his personal gain i.e for his statistics/overall record etcetera, and not for the good will of the team. His batting style is cautious and defensive, but those qualities were extremely useful especially for a team notoriously prone to implode in bulk. On countless occasions Chanderpaul has been able to stabilise the innings and act as a rock for the West Indies Test Team. In the gloomiest decade for West Indies test cricket, Chanderpaul's batting has been the only constant; the only assured fixture (in terms of batting) in the team. Chanderpual may not be the most aesthetically pleasing, he may not be in the mould of previous West Indian greats: he is unique and just because he doesn't tend to have the same charisma or in other words charm about his batting as some previous West Indian greats doesn't mean doesn't deserve his place among the Sobers, Richards or the Lara's.

Chanderpaul's batting style is not solely the reason he was given the selfish tag. In 2012, Lara criticised Chanderpaul for not moving up the order to withhold a more senior role. ESPNcricinfo senior correspondent George Dobell echoed those criticisms saying that Kirk Edwards, who was batting at No.3 at the time, did not have the technique or the capability to bat that high up, especially in English conditions when the ball is swinging.

I personally believe in what Dobell said about Edwards, but incorrect about Chanderpaul. When England toured India back in 2012, the technical deficiencies of the Indian top order were badly exposed by the new ball skills of Broad and Anderson. India's top four at that time had no prior experience in English conditions and Pujara and Kohli, touted as the perfect replacements of Tendeulkar and Dravid, were being made fools. Sri Lanka are still searching for the replacements of Jayawardene and Sangakarra. Chanderpaul was performing a vital role at No.5, but by giving ample opportunities to younger players to gain experience in the higher positions, he was preparing the side for the time he wouldn't be around any longer.

There is a lot to admire about the un-fazed, unflappable style of Chanderpaul's batting. When he would reach a significant landmark i.e a 50 or 100 he would raise his bat politely knowing that his job was merely starting and for someone averaging near 53 in test cricket that was indeed true.

In 2011, when India had won the World Cup Kohli made an eloquent and beautiful speech which read "Sachin Tendulkar has carried Indian cricket on his shoulders for 21 years. So it was fitting we carried him on his shoulders after this win.” Chanderpual had single handedly carry West Indies cricket for 23 years. He continued carrying West Indian cricket until it all ended in 2015.

If Chanderpaul were a selfish player he would be sitting on a private island posting pictures of himself on Instagram at the age of 35 avoiding the debacles between the players and the WICB.

Chanderpaul may have well had selfish aspects to his game and that is because he knew his value in the team, however Chanderpaul cannot be labeled as a selfish human being.

It may have not been a fairy tale ending for Chanderpaul but that does not negate all that he is done for West Indies cricket. So yes, Chanderpaul is definitely a West Indian great and is up there with the elite category of players.

Chanderpaul didn't need West Indies cricket (especially considering the way the WICB treated players) but West Indies cricket needed Chanderpaul.

 

[Convict]

No and no

 

[Hasan123]

No he's not atg. Just behind the 2nd tier of test batsmen

 

[Robert]

When you play for a weak team, its important to move up the order and lead the responsibility.

This. He should have been at #3 to shore up the weak WO batting line, but he chose to hide down at #5 behind lesser players. I never felt that WI were going to win when he scored a century, because he took too long.

 

[Navdeep Srivastava]

This. He should have been at #3 to shore up the weak WO batting line, but he chose to hide down at #5 behind lesser players. I never felt that WI were going to win when he scored a century, because he took too long.

I can understand if some one don't want to play no.3 but number 4 is your best position for best batsman and Shiv denial to play even at no.4 was really sometimes baffling to me

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

447 runs in last 5 FC matches with a match winning 143 in last Guyana win. Averaging 75 with the bat.

WICB need to call him back for one series atleast. Their middle order is struggling badly. Pakistan won't have any 145+ kph pacer to trouble him. Infact Chanderpaul would have faces 145 kph pacers in last 5 Fc matches.

Lara wants Chanderpaul to break his record of most Test runs by West Indian batsman.

The most inept Cricket board needs to shun off ego and resoect their legend with a proper send off. On merit and current form and fitness he should be the first player to be picked for series against Pakistan.

Come on WICB.

 

[Markhor]

Legend's still got it.

Alas he's announced his international retirement so its too late.

You'd think his style of batting would be ideal for the slow, low wickets of the UAE. The series might've been a lot closer had he'd been on the tour.

 

[FlickedOffHips]

Legend's still got it.

Alas he's announced his international retirement so its too late.

You'd think his style of batting would be ideal for the slow, low wickets of the UAE. The series might've been a lot closer had he'd been on the tour.

yes. they need him more than ever now they've kicked darren bravo out. we basically have a WI 3rd XI out there these days- this current lot would get hammered by SL, and that's saying something.
if the board had any sense, they could arrange this series to be his farewell one.

 

[JaDed]

of West Indies.

 

[Bilal7]

of West Indies.

Poor man's Dravid, actually. Both were stodgy batsman, who were hard to dismiss but rarely would take the game away from the opponent, especially in the case of Chanderpaul.

No, he's not an ATG but he is a great batsman and should be mentioned alongside the Cooks, KPs, Inzamams, Clarkes and Yousufs of the world. Seeing how we're facing the Windies next, I don't think he should play international cricket again.