Is the concept of Muslim Ummah [nation] dead?

[Champ_Pal]

Every scripture sir. Now you can try and put a modern twist on how varna are not to be taken literally. Bhagwad Gita clearly tells how karma dictate what caste , animal or gender a person is born as. A person's duties are determined by his or her caste and status.
Don't worry all religions put their modern twist to keep themselves relevant.

There are many non-Hindus converting to Hinduism and nobody has a caste. Hinduism is not rigid. It has undergone several changes and scriptures keep getting updated and newer ones are added.

Most of the Hindu scriptures are written down only in the last 1000 years. Prior to that they are all orally transmitted. Hinduism as we see today is pretty young. Younger than Islam. It is Brahminism. A marriage between old Vedic religion and mainland Indian local beliefs with many principles of Buddhism and Jainism incorporated in it.

Hinduism can be updated and modified unlike Abrahamic religions which are immutable. There is a space for everything in Hinduism. Its just an umbrella term for thousands of local beliefs in India.

 

[Saanji]

There are many non-Hindus converting to Hinduism and nobody has a caste. Hinduism is not rigid. It has undergone several changes and scriptures keep getting updated and newer ones are added.

Most of the Hindu scriptures are written down only in the last 1000 years. Prior to that they are all orally transmitted. Hinduism as we see today is pretty young. Younger than Islam. It is Brahminism. A marriage between old Vedic religion and mainland Indian local beliefs with many principles of Buddhism and Jainism incorporated in it.

Hinduism can be updated and modified unlike Abrahamic religions which are immutable. There is a space for everything in Hinduism. Its just an umbrella term for thousands of local beliefs in India.

1. Scriptures getting updated?? Really? You are just re enforcing and validating my point.
Just because you in your modern perspective doesn't mean the millions of hindus actually believe that. You won't be having caste based matrimonial sites if that were the case.
Caste system is the defining and most permanent feature of the Indian sub continent. An uncomfortable inconvenient truth but it's the truth.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Every scripture sir. Now you can try and put a modern twist on how varna are not to be taken literally. Bhagwad Gita clearly tells how karma dictate what caste , animal or gender a person is born as. A person's duties are determined by his or her caste and status.
Don't worry all religions put their modern twist to keep themselves relevant.

Name me a veda that describes castw system

 

[Saanji]

Name me a veda that describes castw system

.. dude are you seriously going to go down this rabbit hole ?

 

[cricketjoshila]

.. dude are you seriously going to go down this rabbit hole ?

Name me the veda that mentions caste system by birth?

 

[Saanji]

Name me the veda that mentions caste system by birth?

You are making the same argument which Muslims say about the outdated teachings in Islam.
1. Are vedas the end and be of all Hinduism?
There is mention of varnas in vedas. Manu smriti has been corner stone for Hinduism for centuries if not millenia.
2. I will ask you a different question since you want to stick to vedas. Tell me where in vedas does it tell how to convert a non -Hindu to Hindu? Quote me the actual shloka.
Are fresh converts eligible for reservation? No Then here you have it, they belong to the upper caste as per the Indian law.
If they are eligible for reservation, they belong to scheduled castes category.
Modern Indian law recognises the caste system, so let's not try to pretend it doesn't exist magically.

 

[cricketjoshila]

You are making the same argument which Muslims say about the outdated teachings in Islam.
1. Are vedas the end and be of all Hinduism?
There is mention of varnas in vedas. Manu smriti has been corner stone for Hinduism for centuries if not millenia.
2. I will ask you a different question since you want to stick to vedas. Tell me where in vedas does it tell how to convert a non -Hindu to Hindu? Quote me the actual shloka.
Are fresh converts eligible for reservation? No Then here you have it, they belong to the upper caste as per the Indian law.
If they are eligible for reservation, they belong to scheduled castes category.
Modern Indian law recognises the caste system, so let's not try to pretend it doesn't exist magically.

Manu Smriti is only one of the Dharamashastras and they have been dated between 1CE to 12th century. The other Dharamashastras Yagnavalkya Smriti and Narada Smriti are dated during the same time period.

The other Dharamashastras differ from Manusmriti on a number of points.

So during the same period Manusmriti was compiled, there was no consensus on the laws.

There is no concept of conversion in Sanatan Dharma.

What Indian law recognises has nothing to do with what is Dharma.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Someone needs to tell the UFC fighters that the concept of Ummah is dead, every one of them took time out to dedicate their victory to victims in Palestine to huge roars from the crowd.

 

[Aham Brahmasmi]

Name me a veda that describes castw system

Check Garuda Purana where it describes the death and the next happenings. It also mentions caste system and how the good or bad deeds in one birth decides the life in next birth and also the caste as per deeds.

 

[Justcrazy]

On a people to people level it's not dead at all. With Ijtimai prayers, special duas at Jummah and protests everywhere - the invasion of Gaza has seen Muslims of all backgrounds come together. Wish I could say the same about leaders of Muslim countries

You should not be worried. History shows that falsehood can rule for certain time but it will eventually perish. Also , all these things have been recorded in hadeeth . Islam will spread through out the world one day , this is destiny , and NO power in the world can stop that.

Allah says , they plan and Allah also plan , Allah plan will prevail.

 

[Justcrazy]

How does science have anything to do with books written 200 years after the prophet died...

Anyways keep doing you... i love how muslims claim who is not muslim. When it clearly states in the quran only allah knows...

Are you real? You do not even understand what does science of Hadeeth meaning and you are rejecting hadeeth? To reject something you have to know about that thing, without even knowing anything about that you making sweeping statements !!!

Only Allah knows what ? Complete the sentence

 

[Justcrazy]

So you believe all hadeeth? And who made you the judge of whos muslims or whos not? Are you god? Humble yourself.

Have you even read all the hadeeths? There are 1000s which one is right which one is wrong? There is only one Quran...

No I do not believe in all hadeeth.

Individually you cannot call someone as disbeliever , but if someone rejects basic tenents of Islam he is out of fold of Islam. Without Hadeeth , you cannot implement Islam.

The point is not 1000 or 1 million hadeeth , my statement was on who completely rejects hadeeth. If you reject you need to have reason for that.

Only one Quran , who transmitted that Quran to you ? Did the angel reveal that to you?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Check Garuda Purana where it describes the death and the next happenings. It also mentions caste system and how the good or bad deeds in one birth decides the life in next birth and also the caste as per deeds.

Purana and not vedas.

Check Garuda Purana where it describes the death and the next happenings. It also mentions caste system and how the good or bad deeds in one birth decides the life in next birth and also the caste as per deeds.

Garuda purana describes the concept of Karma and rebirth and its fruits and many other concepts over 15000 verses.

It doesn't describe varna system as seen and practised by some.

 

[Aham Brahmasmi]

Purana and not vedas.


Garuda purana describes the concept of Karma and rebirth and its fruits and many other concepts over 15000 verses.

It doesn't describe varna system as seen and practised by some.

Yeah but the caste system gets mentioned there.

 

[Saanji]

Someone needs to tell the UFC fighters that the concept of Ummah is dead, every one of them took time out to dedicate their victory to victims in Palestine to huge roars from the crowd.

They need to establish their UAE citizenship .
What will the do with the Dirhams.. ??

 

[Justcrazy]

Then they are not following the scriptures. It is funny how some religions try to put a modern spin on their values to stay relevant.
Caste is the fundamental core of Hindu scriptures.
"Fluid till 6th century " i dont know where you get that, mahaveer and buddha got their large following as they rejected some of the ills of caste system in 6th century BC brother. Get your facts right.
Atleast Islam doesn't pretend to do that and stays rooted to its Arabic medieval past staunchly.

Hindus in India majority do not follow any scriptures . The basically call themselves as Hindus like a cultural thing. Mostly politicians from RSS and its child parties use Hinduism as a tool and instigate illiterate hindus to gain power. To be honest apart from Islam , there is No major religion which has its jurisprudence applied practically now in present world , and that is why most people hate Islam.

 

[Justcrazy]

Every scripture sir. Now you can try and put a modern twist on how varna are not to be taken literally. Bhagwad Gita clearly tells how karma dictate what caste , animal or gender a person is born as. A person's duties are determined by his or her caste and status.
Don't worry all religions put their modern twist to keep themselves relevant.

Gita is a book of philosophy , its not jurisprudence book , quoting from there is intellectual dishonesty .

 

[Aham Brahmasmi]

Hindus in India majority do not follow any scriptures . The basically call themselves as Hindus like a cultural thing. Mostly politicians from RSS and its child parties use Hinduism as a tool and instigate illiterate hindus to gain power. To be honest apart from Islam , there is No major religion which has its jurisprudence applied practically now in present world , and that is why most people hate Islam.

Basically Hinduism is just a way of life. There aren't any specific rules that you need to follow to be a Hindu. It basically teaches you that God is omnipresent. You can see God in every living thing, not to harm any living being and to do good to all.

 

[Saanji]

Gita is a book of philosophy , its not jurisprudence book , quoting from there is intellectual dishonesty .

How easy it is to change goalposts .
Seriously bro, you are going to somehow prove that Hinduism and caste system are delinked??
Talking about intellectual dishonesty of highest order here.

 

[Justcrazy]

Basically Hinduism is just a way of life. There aren't any specific rules that you need to follow to be a Hindu. It basically teaches you that God is omnipresent. You can see God in every living thing, not to harm any living being and to do good to all.

If there is No specific rules to be followed , why I see dead bodies being burned , why not buried , why do married couple go around Agni seven times , why not 6 or 8 times etc .

 

[Justcrazy]

How easy it is to change goalposts .
Seriously bro, you are going to somehow prove that Hinduism and caste system are delinked??
Talking about intellectual dishonesty of highest order here.

Caste system is integral part of hinduism , which we can see practically as well.
But Gita is not a book to be used for this. It is a part of ithihas ( history ) .

I am sure you can find caste system mentioned in other scriptures.

 

[Aham Brahmasmi]

If there is No specific rules to be followed , why I see dead bodies being burned , why not buried , why do married couple go around Agni seven times , why not 6 or 8 times etc .

Those are rituals , rules and rituals are different. Rituals are macro management whereas rules are micro management. Hope you got the difference sir .

 

[Justcrazy]

Name me a veda that describes castw system

Why you rejecting Purans ?

 

[Champ_Pal]

1. Scriptures getting updated?? Really? You are just re enforcing and validating my point.
Just because you in your modern perspective doesn't mean the millions of hindus actually believe that. You won't be having caste based matrimonial sites if that were the case.
Caste system is the defining and most permanent feature of the Indian sub continent. An uncomfortable inconvenient truth but it's the truth.

Caste is a strong feature of Hinduism, but it is slowly getting thrown to the bin with so many inter-caste marriages happening in the past few decades.
Hinduism can be updated unlike Islam or Judaism. You have your fundamental tenets. Hinduism does not have it.

Below are Hindu beliefs and nicely quoted by the website - https://www.hinduamerican.org/blog/12-things-you-need-to-know-about-hinduism/

1) Hinduism is at least 5000 years old​

2) The Vedas are one of Hinduism’s many primary religious texts​

3) Hinduism is one of four ‘Dharmic’ or ‘Indic’ traditions​

4) Hinduism sees the Divine present in all existence​

5) The nature of the Divine is understood in different ways in different lineages​

6) Hinduism worships the Divine in both male and female, animal form​

7) Hindus pray to different aspects of the Divine​

8) Hindus use images in worship to make the infinite comprehensible to the human mind​

9) Hindus believe the soul is eternal and is reborn in different forms​

10) Hindus believe we each have four goals in life​

11) There are four paths to Moksha​

12) Hinduism acknowledges the potential for truth in other religions​

Brahmins imposed caste system with the help of Rulers and land lords. Initially it was based on a person's aptitude. But later on it became by birth. Caste system is evil and rightfully it is slowly getting related to history with each passing generation. With education, it will slowly die off. Caste is not important in Hinduism now. People still cling on to it as it gives them identity and a sense of communal security.

 

[Justcrazy]

Those are rituals , rules and rituals are different. Rituals are macro management whereas rules are micro management. Hope you got the difference sir .

Whether you call it rule or regulations , those are what people follow , there is no difference in those . Point is they consider it part of religion and follow that, so it is organised in nature .

 

[Champ_Pal]

Purana and not vedas.


Garuda purana describes the concept of Karma and rebirth and its fruits and many other concepts over 15000 verses.

It doesn't describe varna system as seen and practised by some.

How can you trust Garuda Purana which was written in 15th century? It copies so many things from Abrahamic beliefs.

Modern Hinduism is completely made up. Every little local cultural elements got incorporated into Hindu umbrella and a story was made to give it legitimacy.

 

[Justcrazy]

Caste is a strong feature of Hinduism, but it is slowly getting thrown to the bin with so many inter-caste marriages happening in the past few decades.
Hinduism can be updated unlike Islam or Judaism. You have your fundamental tenets. Hinduism does not have it.

Below are Hindu beliefs and nicely quoted by the website - https://www.hinduamerican.org/blog/12-things-you-need-to-know-about-hinduism/

1) Hinduism is at least 5000 years old​

2) The Vedas are one of Hinduism’s many primary religious texts​

3) Hinduism is one of four ‘Dharmic’ or ‘Indic’ traditions​

4) Hinduism sees the Divine present in all existence​

5) The nature of the Divine is understood in different ways in different lineages​

6) Hinduism worships the Divine in both male and female, animal form​

7) Hindus pray to different aspects of the Divine​

8) Hindus use images in worship to make the infinite comprehensible to the human mind​

9) Hindus believe the soul is eternal and is reborn in different forms​

10) Hindus believe we each have four goals in life​

11) There are four paths to Moksha​

12) Hinduism acknowledges the potential for truth in other religions​

Brahmins imposed caste system with the help of Rulers and land lords. Initially it was based on a person's aptitude. But later on it became by birth. Caste system is evil and rightfully it is slowly getting related to history with each passing generation. With education, it will slowly die off. Caste is not important in Hinduism now. People still cling on to it as it gives them identity and a sense of communal security.

This article is mere statements without any source or references.

 

[Justcrazy]

How can you trust Garuda Purana which was written in 15th century? It copies so many things from Abrahamic beliefs.

Modern Hinduism is completely made up. Every little local cultural elements got incorporated into Hindu umbrella and a story was made to give it legitimacy.

There are many hindu scriptures , purans are one of them. Which Scriptures you consider to be right ?

 

[Champ_Pal]

Whether you call it rule or regulations , those are what people follow , there is no difference in those . Point is they consider it part of religion and follow that, so it is organised in nature .

No one follows Hinduism and caste system to the core man.
Brahmins are supposed to beg for food, not own any land or property and their primary job is to teach scriptures and philosophy. They cannot eat meat and should strictly follow the traditions. Nobody does that in modern India.
Kshatruyas are rulers. They can eat meat and their primary duty is to fight to protect Dharma.
Vyshyas are only supposed to be traders.
Shudras are supposed to be landlords, agriculturalists and hardworking jobs.

No one follows the above nonsense in modern India. But they are still Hindus.

Can you stop praying 5 times a day, eat forbidden food and believe all religions are equally true and still be a Muslim? You do not have that freedom. There lies the difference.

 

[Champ_Pal]

This article is mere statements without any source or references.

That is what Hinduism is in a nutshell for all Hindus.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Hindus in India majority do not follow any scriptures . The basically call themselves as Hindus like a cultural thing. Mostly politicians from RSS and its child parties use Hinduism as a tool and instigate illiterate hindus to gain power. To be honest apart from Islam , there is No major religion which has its jurisprudence applied practically now in present world , and that is why most people hate Islam.

Can you list out the scriptures that are to be followed and are not followed by majority of 105cr Hindus?

To be honest no one hates Islam, its the act of some Muslims that are disliked by many people.

Is there any religion which in modern times which prescribes death penalty for leaving that religion? And followers of that religion regularly tries to convert others?

Is there a religion, whose followers in India when in majority tried to stop Temples from taking out processions? And High court had to get involved?

Was there an attempt by a religious community in London to declare certain areas as belonging to their religion? And they tried to implement extra constitutional laws and police had to intervene and take them to task?

And are these acts sanctioned by the religion or are these acts of a few people?

Stop trying to be an expert on sanatsn.you don't know anything about it.

 

[Justcrazy]

Can you list out the scriptures that are to be followed and are not followed by majority of 105cr Hindus?

To be honest no one hates Islam, its the act of some Muslims that are disliked by many people.

Is there any religion which in modern times which prescribes death penalty for leaving that religion? And followers of that religion regularly tries to convert others?

Is there a religion, whose followers in India when in majority tried to stop Temples from taking out processions? And High court had to get involved?

Was there an attempt by a religious community in London to declare certain areas as belonging to their religion? And they tried to implement extra constitutional laws and police had to intervene and take them to task?

And are these acts sanctioned by the religion or are these acts of a few people?

Stop trying to be an expert on sanatsn.you don't know anything about it.

It's not my job to list out your scriptures , it's the Hindu people's job , who claim to be Hindus and want to present hindu ideology to the world. Those who claim their religion is the oldest have found temples and stones everywhere , right from inside Mosques , to Kaba , to Taj Mahal. Maybe even on the Moon.

I am only speaking what I see .

Acts of Muslims ? Those very acts you will find in every other religion. Those acts are not part of Islam. Islam is Not complicated at all. It does not say to do anything which is against society as a whole , yes there will be certain things which will be against individuals.

The temple issue I could not understand , I have no knowledge of .

The Uk issue I know. Those people should follow shariah themselves first before implementing it . They themselves do several things against shariah. To be honest Muslims themselves are against sharia laws. They pick and choose.
If they have suggestions in changing bye laws etc , they need to have their representatives talk with local administration. In a Non Islamic country you cannot stop sale l or consumption of alcohol or consent sex etc .

The best way is to educate people about its damaging consequences to people.

I never claimed to be an expert. What I write you people can refute and that is exactly what you are doing.

 

[Justcrazy]

No one follows Hinduism and caste system to the core man.
Brahmins are supposed to beg for food, not own any land or property and their primary job is to teach scriptures and philosophy. They cannot eat meat and should strictly follow the traditions. Nobody does that in modern India.
Kshatruyas are rulers. They can eat meat and their primary duty is to fight to protect Dharma.
Vyshyas are only supposed to be traders.
Shudras are supposed to be landlords, agriculturalists and hardworking jobs.

No one follows the above nonsense in modern India. But they are still Hindus.

Can you stop praying 5 times a day, eat forbidden food and believe all religions are equally true and still be a Muslim? You do not have that freedom. There lies the difference.

Its not freedom , it is lack of intent and inherent believe that Hinduism has no basis , all this claim is superficial.

 

[Justcrazy]

That is what Hinduism is in a nutshell for all Hindus.

How , one person writes this and it becomes Hinduism in nutshell for all Hindus !!!!

 

[Champ_Pal]

There are many hindu scriptures , purans are one of them. Which Scriptures you consider to be right ?

Most of the scriptures were written in the last 1000 years. Obviously influenced by invaders from North West. There are no manuscripts of any of Hindu literature prior to 1000 AD. Most of the languages we see today are given grammer and much of its vocabulary around 900-1200 AD. Everything is pretty new. A lot has happened with the Islamic invasion in the 8th century by Arabs. I believe when Brahmins got kicked out of North West India, they moved towards mainland India and created the modern Hindu religion.

Rama of Ramayana and Krishna of Mahabharata are just ordinary humans and people equated them to have God like Characteristics. Eventually they got deified and called Avatar of Vishnu.

I agree Hinduism is complicated and that is why I am a huge critic of Hindu and my views are borderline atheist. To me, if you realize that divinity is within yourself and look inward rather than Sky to attain salvation, then you are a Hindu.

 

[Champ_Pal]

How , one person writes this and it becomes Hinduism in nutshell for all Hindus !!!!

Bro, no one recites Caste System Manthras in the morning and evening man. Caste has just become a group identity now. A group of people doing certain kind of Jobs were given a caste identity. There are thousands of castes in India. But according to Hindu scriptures there are only 4 castes. Just shows how stupid the whole thing is.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

They need to establish their UAE citizenship .
What will the do with the Dirhams.. ??

Did you even watch the fights? Most of the stars are already well established and earning big money in the west. Your boy Anush Jubli got his clock cleaned by some no hoper 3rd rate yank in the prelims.

 

[Saanji]

Did you even watch the fights? Most of the stars are already well established and earning big money in the west. Your boy Anush Jubli got his clock cleaned by some no hoper 3rd rate yank in the prelims.

Did you watch jubli fight or just read the results and coming here to harp about it. He owned the first two rounds, got overwhelmed in last. And looking at his performance he is no ufc material and I don't think he will go further.

Chamaev gave up his Swedish citizen to become UAE citizen. Dagestanis have a huge love in UAE. It's their home bout basically.

please comeback with better knowledge ,

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Did you watch jubli fight or just read the results and coming here to harp about it. He owned the first two rounds, got overwhelmed in last. And looking at his performance he is no ufc material and I don't think he will go further.

Chamaev gave up his Swedish citizen to become UAE citizen. Dagestanis have a huge love in UAE. It's their home bout basically.

please comeback with better knowledge ,

You need to stop with this charade of posting as a Sikh before we take this any further. Jubli is not a Sikh as far as I know. I did watch the fight in full and he started off with some nice techniques but his no mark opponent sensed his weakness and just smashed him through brute force.

But back to the point, do you need to see videos of the UFC fighters declareing their allegiance to the Ummah?

 

[Justcrazy]

Most of the scriptures were written in the last 1000 years. Obviously influenced by invaders from North West. There are no manuscripts of any of Hindu literature prior to 1000 AD. Most of the languages we see today are given grammer and much of its vocabulary around 900-1200 AD. Everything is pretty new. A lot has happened with the Islamic invasion in the 8th century by Arabs. I believe when Brahmins got kicked out of North West India, they moved towards mainland India and created the modern Hindu religion.

Rama of Ramayana and Krishna of Mahabharata are just ordinary humans and people equated them to have God like Characteristics. Eventually they got deified and called Avatar of Vishnu.

I agree Hinduism is complicated and that is why I am a huge critic of Hindu and my views are borderline atheist. To me, if you realize that divinity is within yourself and look inward rather than Sky to attain salvation, then you are a Hindu.

So you agree that Vedas are most significant book of Hinduism , and most of it are not in real form. I mean there are very few original manuscripts available.

What you said about Ram and Krishna , that is also my own view. I do believe such persons lived at one point of time , but were humans. A lot of wrong things were attributed to them.

But I think Hindus do not negate looking at sky , they do believe in swarg and Narak , infact beleive that Indra rules over Indralok.

 

[Justcrazy]

Bro, no one recites Caste System Manthras in the morning and evening man. Caste has just become a group identity now. A group of people doing certain kind of Jobs were given a caste identity. There are thousands of castes in India. But according to Hindu scriptures there are only 4 castes. Just shows how stupid the whole thing is.

Those castes are based on families , these caste is based on birth .

 

[Saanji]

You need to stop with this charade of posting as a Sikh before we take this any further. Jubli is not a Sikh as far as I know. I did watch the fight in full and he started off with some nice techniques but his no mark opponent sensed his weakness and just smashed him through brute force.

But back to the point, do you need to see videos of the UFC fighters declareing their allegiance to the Ummah?

1. When and where did anyone claim jubli is a Sikh. I responded to your taunt as him losing and being an Indian.
2. You can stop the charade of knowing anything about UFC.
3. I watch UFC matches and post match interviews where many talked about peace in Middle East. If there is something else I do not know.

 

[Sir-fraz]

Are you real? You do not even understand what does science of Hadeeth meaning and you are rejecting hadeeth? To reject something you have to know about that thing, without even knowing anything about that you making sweeping statements !!!

Only Allah knows what ? Complete the sentence

Who is muslim...

 

[Sir-fraz]

No I do not believe in all hadeeth.

Individually you cannot call someone as disbeliever , but if someone rejects basic tenents of Islam he is out of fold of Islam. Without Hadeeth , you cannot implement Islam.

The point is not 1000 or 1 million hadeeth , my statement was on who completely rejects hadeeth. If you reject you need to have reason for that.

Only one Quran , who transmitted that Quran to you ? Did the angel reveal that to you?

Does it say in the Quran use the hadeeth? No.

no i personally no not follow any organized religion. They have been corrupted to the core. Just business' now.
Im just stating what the Quran says. It says it is complete. If that is the case why would someone need the hadeeth?

I believe in God, Allah, the creator, the one etc... whatever name people use...

 

[Justcrazy]

Does it say in the Quran use the hadeeth? No.

no i personally no not follow any organized religion. They have been corrupted to the core. Just business' now.
Im just stating what the Quran says. It says it is complete. If that is the case why would someone need the hadeeth?

I believe in God, Allah, the creator, the one etc... whatever name people use...

First of all since you are insisting on Quran only , please tell me how was Quran transmitted to you , were you present there when Quran was revealed ?

Please answer this question , after that we will see what Quran is saying.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Did you watch jubli fight or just read the results and coming here to harp about it. He owned the first two rounds, got overwhelmed in last. And looking at his performance he is no ufc material and I don't think he will go further.

Chamaev gave up his Swedish citizen to become UAE citizen. Dagestanis have a huge love in UAE. It's their home bout basically.

please comeback with better knowledge ,

lol, he's a bum. Agreed. Wont get anywhere near top 10 let alone belt.

As for the topic, the Ummah doesnt mean a United Nations of Muslims with a military group. ITs simply means a community of Muslims. This will exist even if there are two sets of Muslims in the world.

 

[Bewal Express]

As Muslims we hurt when other Muslims are hurting. Our govts are complicit in their pain and therein lies the problem. Not a single Muslim govt cares one jot for Muslims in their own country or in other countries.

 

[JaDed]

As Muslims we hurt when other Muslims are hurting. Our govts are complicit in their pain and therein lies the problem. Not a single Muslim govt cares one jot for Muslims in their own country or in other countries.

If this is the logic then why would non-Muslims trust Muslims to do the right thing when its Muslims-Non-Muslims?(please don’t answer that it’s coz religion and righteous path, those things can be manipulated)

Ummah isn’t dead but this is the reason why Zionists or Ummah as a global citizen I’m very wary of.

I ve spoken against castes , Zionism and Ummah seem very similar to me.

 

[Bewal Express]

If this is the logic then why would non-Muslims trust Muslims to do the right thing when its Muslims-Non-Muslims?(please don’t answer that it’s coz religion and righteous path, those things can be manipulated)

Ummah isn’t dead but this is the reason why Zionists or Ummah as a global citizen I’m very wary of.

I ve spoken against castes , Zionism and Ummah seem very similar to me.

I don't really care for non Muslims trusting us or not. That isn't my problem. I always look to do the right thing and will always condemn violence by Muslims on non Muslims and vice versa but my experience is that when any conflicts happen, the non Muslim govts, along with Muslim govts take one side and the Muslims at large take another side.

 

[Ml12345]

Muslim Ummah is needed now more than ever. Muslims need to unite to fight all evil forces across the world. Just imagine a combined Muslim army. No Hindu, Jew or Christian will dare to mess with them. All Muslim countries will be so safe and prosperous. Unfortunately, people from most of the Muslim countries don't like their own countries and want to go to the western countries who they otherwise hate, and once they go there, they want to convert those countries to just like their own country

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Muslim Ummah is needed now more than ever. Muslims need to unite to fight all evil forces across the world. Just imagine a combined Muslim army. No Hindu, Jew or Christian will dare to mess with them. All Muslim countries will be so safe and prosperous. Unfortunately, people from most of the Muslim countries don't like their own countries and want to go to the western countries who they otherwise hate, and once they go there, they want to convert those countries to just like their own country

I know this is dripping with hate-fuelled sarcasm, but the last line does need to at least be considered. It's not really the subject of the OP, but why would Muslims want to convert their new homes into copies of the country which they have left? If they wanted that, why would they have left their own countries in the first place?

 

[Ml12345]

I know this is dripping with hate-fuelled sarcasm, but the last line does need to at least be considered. It's not really the subject of the OP, but why would Muslims want to convert their new homes into copies of the country which they have left? If they wanted that, why would they have left their own countries in the first place?

This is the part I have always wondered about but unfortunately it's true.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

This is the part I have always wondered about but unfortunately it's true.

Yes you have made a statement which seems contradictory, but have not offered any reason why it would be so.

 

[RexRex]

As Muslims we hurt when other Muslims are hurting.

Maybe you should start hurting when non-muslims are hurting as well. They too were created by the God you worship.

 

[Ml12345]

Maybe you should start hurting when non-muslims are hurting as well. They too were created by the God you worship.

I had that exact feeling when I read this comment

 

[Bewal Express]

Maybe you should start hurting when non-muslims are hurting as well. They too were created by the God you worship.

I do, looking at how Christians in Ind also pains.

 

[Bewal Express]

Muslim Ummah is needed now more than ever. Muslims need to unite to fight all evil forces across the world. Just imagine a combined Muslim army. No Hindu, Jew or Christian will dare to mess with them. All Muslim countries will be so safe and prosperous. Unfortunately, people from most of the Muslim countries don't like their own countries and want to go to the western countries who they otherwise hate, and once they go there, they want to convert those countries to just like their own country

But Ind is doing well according to you guys, but they are running to every corner of the World. Why is that? You are even running to Muslim countries like UAE, Saudi etc. Where is your ghairat man

 

[Champ_Pal]

So you agree that Vedas are most significant book of Hinduism , and most of it are not in real form. I mean there are very few original manuscripts available.

What you said about Ram and Krishna , that is also my own view. I do believe such persons lived at one point of time , but were humans. A lot of wrong things were attributed to them.

But I think Hindus do not negate looking at sky , they do believe in swarg and Narak , infact beleive that Indra rules over Indralok.

Vedas are significant books for less than 10% of Hindus man. Many Hindus reject Vedas. Their significance is only restricted to Brahmins who still regard them highly. Low caste people who form the bulk of Hindu population don't give 2 hoots about Vedas. They do not even know how many books of Vedas are there.

Hinduism has a concept of Avatar. Any person who exhibits extraordinary characteristics are given the status of an Avatar. By praying to these people, a Hindu is basically praying to the attributes of Almighty. Of course the meaning of all of that is long gone. Now Hindus think that they are literal Gods.

Swarg and Narak is a 15th century concept in Hinduism. Lord Indra the supreme God of Devas was made a living joke and he is shown enjoying the dances of Apsaras(heavenly angels). Such brutal corruption. No one questions these nonsense writings in Hinduism. There is no authority to control what goes in and out of the religion. That is why I do not consider Hinduism as a religion. It is just an umbrella of various Indian beliefs. In the past 100 or so years, Hinduism has transformed into an organized religion much like Islam or Christianity. That is the only way it could survive their onslaught.

 

[Champ_Pal]

But Ind is doing well according to you guys, but they are running to every corner of the World. Why is that? You are even running to Muslim countries like UAE, Saudi etc. Where is your ghairat man

Its all about Money. You have to be educated and smart enough to become rich in India. Even then, people encounter lot of hurdles. So we run to foreign lands (Educated ones to West and semi literate or illiterate to Middle East).

 

[Bewal Express]

Its all about Money. You have to be educated and smart enough to become rich in India. Even then, people encounter lot of hurdles. So we run to foreign lands (Educated ones to West and semi literate or illiterate to Middle East).

But you guys sre running to Muslim countries. The guy that taunted Muslims needs to persuade his fellow countrymen to show some ghairat

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

In the past 100 or so years, Hinduism has transformed into an organized religion much like Islam or Christianity. That is the only way it could survive their onslaught.

Pretty much an admission that they were right all along then by that logic. Not that I agree with it, but it does explain how a supposedly higher form of thought could go hurtling backwards in a matter of a few decades.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Pretty much an admission that they were right all along then by that logic. Not that I agree with it, but it does explain how a supposedly higher form of thought could go hurtling backwards in a matter of a few decades.

Adapt or Perish.

 

[Ml12345]

But Ind is doing well according to you guys, but they are running to every corner of the World. Why is that? You are even running to Muslim countries like UAE, Saudi etc. Where is your ghairat man

This is what happens when you get overtaken by hate and don't read the post carefully

 

[Ml12345]

But you guys sre running to Muslim countries. The guy that taunted Muslims needs to persuade his fellow countrymen to show some ghairat

People have been going to foreign countries to earn their livelihood for generations, nothing wrong with that. I was talking about what they do when they go there. Thoda thanda ho ke padho aur jawaab do to kuchh dhang ka likh paoge.

 

[Bewal Express]

People have been going to foreign countries to earn their livelihood for generations, nothing wrong with that. I was talking about what they do when they go there. Thoda thanda ho ke padho aur jawaab do to kuchh dhang ka likh paoge.

You can write anything you like. Your beghairati needs to be exposed. Get your fellow countrymen to get out of Muslim countries if you are so desperate for Muslims to be out of other countries.

 

[IAJ]

Alhamdulillah it’s alive and kicking. This is era of information, the digital age, the new media age, and in regard to the war against Palestine the muslims are doing a great job by spreading the words against Israeli operession. And this is one of the reasons why Israel still not have gone into Gaza.

Many big muslim leaders were a bit quite in the beginning but with the preassure from the people they have also started condemning the war Crimes.

Actually muslims are very strong, but something is holding them back.
MBS has shown his power to US a couple of times, Erdogan has also done this.

 

[uberkoen]

So if something is not found in Quran , it is false?

Quran is the book given to Muslims for guidance. It is the only book we need for guidance. Everything else is superficial and prone to errors, human misjudgment and bias and as such if something is not in the Qur'an then there is no truth to it.

 

[uberkoen]

Those who reject Hadeeth completely are not Muslims.

lol who issued this fatwa and on what basis? The books of hadith are majorly flawed and have so many errors in them

 

[shortbread]

In terms of verbal ferociousness, yes pretty much united, One statement after the other condemning Israel's atrocities.... but that's about it. In terms of action, ie. reality, nada! For this to happen the two biggest Muslim powers ie. Saudi and Iran need to reconcile and develop a strong relationship. Once they surpass this (impossible) hurdle, a quad grouping of Saudi, Iran, Indonesia and Turkey can lead the muslim world.

 

[cricketjoshila]

It's not my job to list out your scriptures , it's the Hindu people's job , who claim to be Hindus and want to present hindu ideology to the world. Those who claim their religion is the oldest have found temples and stones everywhere , right from inside Mosques , to Kaba , to Taj Mahal. Maybe even on the Moon.

I am only speaking what I see .

Acts of Muslims ? Those very acts you will find in every other religion. Those acts are not part of Islam. Islam is Not complicated at all. It does not say to do anything which is against society as a whole , yes there will be certain things which will be against individuals.

The temple issue I could not understand , I have no knowledge of .

The Uk issue I know. Those people should follow shariah themselves first before implementing it . They themselves do several things against shariah. To be honest Muslims themselves are against sharia laws. They pick and choose.
If they have suggestions in changing bye laws etc , they need to have their representatives talk with local administration. In a Non Islamic country you cannot stop sale l or consumption of alcohol or consent sex etc .

The best way is to educate people about its damaging consequences to people.

I never claimed to be an expert. What I write you people can refute and that is exactly what you are doing.

So you don't know which scriptures should be followed by Hindus but you are giving judgement on how Hindus are not following Hinduism.

Please mind your own religion, Hindus know how to follow their religion and don't need to explain it to others since others have little knowledge of how Sanatan works.

So you agree that certain Muslims act in a way that may be disliked by non Muslims and are against Islam. So the dislike is towards those people and not Islam.

Regards to the temple issue:

Allowing religious intolerance not good for a secular country: Madras HC

CHENNAI: The Madras High Court has said allowing religious intolerance is not good for a secular country and 'resistance' by one religious group, if reciprocate

www.newindianexpress.com

More such incidents are happening.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Muslims are divided into so many sects like Christians. They can never be united as interpretations vary vastly.

Alhamdulillah it’s alive and kicking. This is era of information, the digital age, the new media age, and in regard to the war against Palestine the muslims are doing a great job by spreading the words against Israeli operession. And this is one of the reasons why Israel still not have gone into Gaza.

Many big muslim leaders were a bit quite in the beginning but with the preassure from the people they have also started condemning the war Crimes.

Actually muslims are very strong, but something is holding them back.
MBS has shown his power to US a couple of times, Erdogan has also done this.

Which country is supporting Hamas man? Outside of Iran who are Shia and Qatar who funds Hamas, there is no Muslim country that really is helping Hamas. Every Arab nation is silent. Muslim nations in subcontinent are a joke.

United Ummah can only exist when there is a Caliphate. The concept of Caliphate is dead and buried 10,000 feet under the ground.

 

[Stewie]

Ummah was always supposed to be a brotherhood of faith and not political. So in that term it is alive and well. and its expanding through preaching.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Ummah was always supposed to be a brotherhood of faith and not political. So in that term it is alive and well. and its expanding through preaching.

Brotherhood in faith can be applied to Christians too. If there is no political aspect to it, then Ummah is more like a support group. People join in a chatroom or a closed room and vent out their frustrations and problems. No real solutions to any issues.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Brotherhood in faith can be applied to Christians too. If there is no political aspect to it, then Ummah is more like a support group. People join in a chatroom or a closed room and vent out their frustrations and problems. No real solutions to any issues.

Solutions come only when the time and conditions are conducive. Look at what the people of Jewish faith went through in the early 20th century, they also had to vent frustrations and problems, but they held their faith and eventually their homeland was achieved. That is the whole point of faith, it doesn't bend or break every time the wind blows a little rough.

In any case, in Abrahamic faith the afterlife is the biggest consideration, the Musalman is meant to live this life in order to achieve success in the hereafter.

 

[Stewie]

Brotherhood in faith can be applied to Christians too. If there is no political aspect to it, then Ummah is more like a support group. People join in a chatroom or a closed room and vent out their frustrations and problems. No real solutions to any issues.

It is a support group. Masjids are the center of community where one can seek help and people suport each other whether it is through financial assistance, training, advice, etc. At least thats how the Muslim comunity operates in the US.

It can get political when it needs to. For instance, the presidential candidates seek our votes and come and their people come talk to us selling us their crap. LOL

I think thats how it was intended to be honestly. The caliphate was more of a political concept but the concept of Ummah is largely non political.

 

[Justcrazy]

Quran is the book given to Muslims for guidance. It is the only book we need for guidance. Everything else is superficial and prone to errors, human misjudgment and bias and as such if something is not in the Qur'an then there is no truth to it.

So , according to your wisdom , you can get all the things necessary in life from Quran , without referring anything to hadeeth books?

 

[Justcrazy]

lol who issued this fatwa and on what basis? The books of hadith are majorly flawed and have so many errors in them

We will come to this discussion, firstly we need to see whether hadeeth are important or is not necessary in Islam , so answer my above post. Than You.

 

[Justcrazy]

So you don't know which scriptures should be followed by Hindus but you are giving judgement on how Hindus are not following Hinduism.

Please mind your own religion, Hindus know how to follow their religion and don't need to explain it to others since others have little knowledge of how Sanatan works.

So you agree that certain Muslims act in a way that may be disliked by non Muslims and are against Islam. So the dislike is towards those people and not Islam.

Regards to the temple issue:

Allowing religious intolerance not good for a secular country: Madras HC

CHENNAI: The Madras High Court has said allowing religious intolerance is not good for a secular country and 'resistance' by one religious group, if reciprocate

www.newindianexpress.com

More such incidents are happening.

I do not follow Hinduism , so I cannot say which ones Hindus should follow. I can only read and quote from that. A hindu who claims to be hindu should know which are they supposed to follow.

In social media people have the right to discuss about hinduism , and yes you should have a problem if I misspell something , if I do not , then there is no reason for you to tell me to mind my own business. When Hindu leaders speak about Ghar wapsi , why are they not minding own business? Your leaders are presenting something to me , so I have right to ask questions about that.

If you claim to be sanatani , then you should be able to tell me where I am wrong.

If the dislike is towards Muslims only as a person and not towards Islam , then why they are speaking against the religion itself ? I can show you many videos where they abusing Islamic personalities , Quran and Allah ?

You should treat a bad person as a bad person , whether the person is Hindu , Muslim , atheist , Christian etc.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I do not follow Hinduism , so I cannot say which ones Hindus should follow. I can only read and quote from that. A hindu who claims to be hindu should know which are they supposed to follow.

In social media people have the right to discuss about hinduism , and yes you should have a problem if I misspell something , if I do not , then there is no reason for you to tell me to mind my own business. When Hindu leaders speak about Ghar wapsi , why are they not minding own business? Your leaders are presenting something to me , so I have right to ask questions about that.

If you claim to be sanatani , then you should be able to tell me where I am wrong.

If the dislike is towards Muslims only as a person and not towards Islam , then why they are speaking against the religion itself ? I can show you many videos where they abusing Islamic personalities , Quran and Allah ?

You should treat a bad person as a bad person , whether the person is Hindu , Muslim , atheist , Christian etc.

No one presented anything to you. Ghar wapasi is to counter the conversion activities of Muslims and Christian missionaries. Its a counter movement. And its only for people whose ancestors were hindu.

The dislike is because those Muslims claim to do it in the name of Islam. And there are not enough people countering it.

 

[Farhan The Man]

Alhamdulillah it’s alive and kicking. This is era of information, the digital age, the new media age, and in regard to the war against Palestine the muslims are doing a great job by spreading the words against Israeli operession. And this is one of the reasons why Israel still not have gone into Gaza.

Many big muslim leaders were a bit quite in the beginning but with the preassure from the people they have also started condemning the war Crimes.

Actually muslims are very strong, but something is holding them back.
MBS has shown his power to US a couple of times, Erdogan has also done this.

What?!?!?

muslims doing a great job in digital age.
israel not going into gaza due to ummah pressure.
MBS. erdogan, showing almighty power to US.

Much hyperbole from another pakistani with a western passport. Unwilling to surrender western comforts, and placating words to soothe bruised ego.