Is the loss of Salman Butt grossly underrated in comparison to Mohammad Asif and Mohammad Amir?

[mominsaigol]

Salman Butt was no boy wonder but was a decent and dependable opener in his era. He was given the captaincy because everyone thought this English speaking decent looking non controversial bloke could be a safe bet to serve Pakistan for a few good years but how wrong were we all. I believe the 2010 spot fixing scandals remains the most embarrassing and hurtful incident in Pakistan cricket history. It made Michael Holding cry on air because despite seeing everything in the 1990 and early 2000s, even he could not fathom how a young captain could influence his two premier fast bowlers including a teenager to commit such blatant cheating in that age. He’s a national traitor and although I believe in forgiveness and giving people a second chance even I feel awkward when I see him presenting his views on cricket.

The fact that people could have sympathy with him after the amount of damage he did to Pakistan cricket brand only goes to show why corruption is such a problem in this part of the world.

I mean it happened 14 years ago so people have aged, time has progressed, mentality is different.

I've seen butt talk and present his views, He isn't the same person he was in 2010 so people should move on.

But I can understand, it is weird to see him, and it'll be weird if he gets some sort of high position in PCB when he clearly does not warrant it

 

[pratiktc]

I do not like Salman Butt. He brought game into disrepute and sold his country and cricket fans out.

I personally would change channel or video if he is airing his views, but I dont begrudge him his opportunity to earn a living. For better or worse he has served his punishment and it is unfair to scorn or humiliate him today for his past misdeeds. We all know there are people who have done similiar things and who are celebrated today with everything having been swept under the carpet.

When it comes to playing capability he was limited player but he gave decent output and perhaps could have gone on to become a reasonably good Test batter in his 30s. Maybe could have reached close to the level of a Karunaratne or Elgar.

The white ball game's evolution in 2010s would have likely rendered him surplus to requirements though.

 

[shaz619]

Should have squeezed more out of him but he was toying with arguably the best team of all time in their back yard and gave Indians PTSD from the Anwar mauling’s.

In Tests he was starting to recover his form so who knows what could have been…

 

[shaz619]

After what Babar and Rizwan have done to Pakistan, I have forgiven Salman Butt

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Yes. He was better ODI opener. Bit slow but he and Yasir Hameed formed stable opening pair

In Tests, he didn't improve for so long years.

Taufeeq Umar was best Pakistani opener after Anwar.

Last 5/6 matches was bad but he looked better than Farhat, Faisal, Salman and all for Tests.

Taufeeq came back out of the blue and had a decent end to his career.

He and Saleem Elahi had a decent run together as ODI openers too if I recall correctly.

 

[Jatlahoria]

Taufeeq came back out of the blue and had a decent end to his career.

He and Saleem Elahi had a decent run together as ODI openers too if I recall correctly.

Salman Butt could still be used in a coaching, tactics role. He is a shrewd cricketer and may help with game awareness. No point neglecting him, rather he can pass on his cricketing knowledge if PCB can use it.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Salman butt has a god cricketing mind. People might not like him because of his fixing saga but he spoke some good words of wisdom and can be utilized in someway by PCB.

 

[offstump]

I see him as less of a coach and more of a consultant who can help steer the ship. As a coach he would be way too over critical, but his ideas on how to fix domestic cricket, how to make a skilled cricketer, what to focus on etc. are top notch.

 

[psyoptica]

Salman Butt was no boy wonder but was a decent and dependable opener in his era. He was given the captaincy because everyone thought this English speaking decent looking non controversial bloke could be a safe bet to serve Pakistan for a few good years but how wrong were we all. I believe the 2010 spot fixing scandals remains the most embarrassing and hurtful incident in Pakistan cricket history. It made Michael Holding cry on air because despite seeing everything in the 1990 and early 2000s, even he could not fathom how a young captain could influence his two premier fast bowlers including a teenager to commit such blatant cheating in that age. He’s a national traitor and although I believe in forgiveness and giving people a second chance even I feel awkward when I see him presenting his views on cricket.

The fact that people could have sympathy with him after the amount of damage he did to Pakistan cricket brand only goes to show why corruption is such a problem in this part of the world.

Lol people speak of the 2010 spot fixing scandal as if corruption is a novel thing in Pakistan.
Corruption is seeped into every aspect of Pakistani society, and no one not even the Pakistanis trust their fellow countrymen to be honest yet people react to the spot fixing scandal as if it is an anomaly that had happened that no one expected and every ex player in the past have been of clean character.
Get off your high horses folks. I’m not a fan of the fixing trio but leave them alone for God sake for the mistake they committed they have already paid for.
Pakistan is full of known corrupt people that cause embarrassment to the nation wvery single day. Show a bit of anger towards them as well.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

Salman butt has a god cricketing mind. People might not like him because of his fixing saga but he spoke some good words of wisdom and can be utilized in someway by PCB.

This, exactly this is the deep malaise in Pakistan cricket and other institutions. If convicted match fixers still have a welcome back so easily, what's the penalty really? Such a general acceptance of established cheats and quick amnesia after the initial shock. Where is the drive to actually cleanse the system?

After what Babar and Rizwan have done to Pakistan, I have forgiven Salman Butt

How many times was Asif caught with PEDs even before the sport fixing scandal? Honestly, the punishment for Spot fixing was exemplary because of the intense media coverage and actual criminal convictions. PCB would have otherwise let it slide.

 

[mominsaigol]

Taufeeq came back out of the blue and had a decent end to his career.

He and Saleem Elahi had a decent run together as ODI openers too if I recall correctly.

Taufeeq umar was hot garbage in odi, 22 games for pakistan as an opener and averaging 24 with 56 SR which is extremely low for even his era. His highest score of 83 was such a chore to watch, Dude took nearly 140 deliveries to get their.

 

[Hellion]

Taufeeq came back out of the blue and had a decent end to his career.

He and Saleem Elahi had a decent run together as ODI openers too if I recall correctly.

Dont remember . Elahi was dropped after 2003 World Cup. PCB favour Yasir/Farhat/Hafeez after that.

Don't think Taufeeq played much with Elahi

 

[BouncerGuy]

This, exactly this is the deep malaise in Pakistan cricket and other institutions. If convicted match fixers still have a welcome back so easily, what's the penalty really? Such a general acceptance of established cheats and quick amnesia after the initial shock. Where is the drive to actually cleanse the system?


How many times was Asif caught with PEDs even before the sport fixing scandal? Honestly, the punishment for Spot fixing was exemplary because of the intense media coverage and actual criminal convictions. PCB would have otherwise let it slide.

If convicted match fixer Mohammad Amir can play then why not Salman butt be utilized in PCB??

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

If convicted match fixer Mohammad Amir can play then why not Salman butt be utilized in PCB??

His context varied and he was punished the severest and had a lot of sympathy for his youth and such a poor background. Salman Butt basically infected the team with corruption from his position of power and people are suggesting him to be put back in powerful position.

Still, Amir should not have been allowed back and especially now. Somehow, this 2024 recall did more damage to any punishment that was dealt to cheats.

 

[BouncerGuy]

His context varied and he was punished the severest and had a lot of sympathy for his youth and such a poor background. Salman Butt basically infected the team with corruption from his position of power and people are suggesting him to be put back in powerful position.

Still, Amir should not have been allowed back and especially now. Somehow, this 2024 recall did more damage to any punishment that was dealt to cheats.

Rules should be same for every individual not matter of he is a senior or junior. Amir, Asif, and Salman paid the price for their wrong doings. Amir made a comeback and people literally cried for his comeback, why the stance change for Salman?

If Salman is serious and willing to do something good then he deserves a 2nd chance.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

Rules should be same for every individual not matter of he is a senior or junior. Amir, Asif, and Salman paid the price for their wrong doings. Amir made a comeback and people literally cried for his comeback, why the stance change for Salman?

If Salman is serious and willing to do something good then he deserves a 2nd chance.

Laws around the world take the context into account brother. Amir didnt infect others.
Salman Butt like Hansie Cronje infected and coerced others young players to commit crimes when they were captains. Thats a much much bigger crime. They were a plague to the system and no matter what heart felt apology Hansie Cronje made he was banned for life with nothing whatsoever to be done with Cricket. Butt deserves no lesser sentence than that.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Laws around the world take the context into account brother. Amir didnt infect others.
Salman Butt like Hansie Cronje infected and coerced others young players to commit crimes when they were captains. Thats a much much bigger crime. They were a plague to the system and no matter what heart felt apology Hansie Cronje made he was banned for life with nothing whatsoever to be done with Cricket. Butt deserves no lesser sentence than that.

Well, I respect your point of view. You have a strict policy and I completely understand that. My policy is also strict but I belive rules should be the same for everyone. 2nd chance is not a bad idea sometimes but we can never predict anything.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

Well, I respect your point of view. You have a strict policy and I completely understand that. My policy is also strict but I belive rules should be the same for everyone. 2nd chance is not a bad idea sometimes but we can never predict anything.

The problem with giving second chance is that you assume that it was their first crime. Salman Butt was a seasoned veteran and leader of the team, he was just caught once. and here is the argument for slight leniency for Amir, there was a considerable proof that it was his first time and forced by his seniors and he was just 18 and from such a poor background with no support. I dont have any sympathies for any seasoned player who got cheating like Asif or Butt or Azhar or Jadeja, they had been in the system long enough to understand what they were doing.

I can speculate that fixing is rife in all these franchise cricket. Apart from IPL and maybe Big Bash hardly any league makes money. How are they surviving by brutal maths of financial accounting if they were honest. and lets not forget IPL already had serious fixing scandals. We are too forgiving to the cheats.

I would love to see in cricket what Cycling did to Lance Armstrong. He is deleted from all cycling records and history. and That should be the case in cricket.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Salman was the biggest criminal at the time. he was captain of the side and it seems from the evidence that he is the one that led other players down this path.

Mohammed Asif was an incredible talent but he was the Pakistani equivalent of George Best or Paul Gasgoine. He was always going to try and bend some laws or enjoy the party life. I don't think he was too fussed about fixing in general. He just seemed like a dude that lived life on the edge

Amir we might never what could have been. However judging from his exploits in the latter stages of his career its almost certain he would have ended up fixing at some point in the future even if he hadn't been under the wings of Butt.

Salman butt has never been open about WHY he chose to fix. We would be able to learn a lot about his motivations and what drove a seemingly intelligent well educated young man down this path. It would be fascinating to understand.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Dont remember . Elahi was dropped after 2003 World Cup. PCB favour Yasir/Farhat/Hafeez after that.

Don't think Taufeeq played much with Elahi

I may have misremembered from youth. They only played 6 matches together in ODI.

 

[mominsaigol]

If convicted match fixer Mohammad Amir can play then why not Salman butt be utilized in PCB??

Amir had alot of supporting evidence in court documents.

Now whether he was speaking the truth or not is something we will never know because the lawyers are obviously on his side.

But in court he had evidence for his support which was

A) Age aka being a minor at 17( Doesn't matter if its age fudged or not)

B) He was forced by Salman butt otherwise he's never representing pakistan again and in a country with captain power where we've seen players like tayyab tahir, abrar Ahmed etc being sidelined for no reason it is 100% plausible.

C) He was the first to admit while the others 2 denied.


Now yes while it is equally likely that

A) He's age fudged.

B) He ain't innocent and wasn't forced and wanted money and was outright in cahoots with the other 2 and not a victim.

C) He wasn't the first to willingly admit, just the first that was forced to admit against his will,


The key point is that he had supporting evidence in court which was difficult to prove or argue against.


Salman butt on the other hand had zero evidence that supported his case. He literally had no supporting arguments and all the lawyers could do was advocate for a ten year ban and a reduced sentence which tbf they were succesful in doing and even reducing it. But he had no supporting arguments in court.

 

[IMMY69]

I'll never forget the press conferences after each test match in England in 2010.....

Everyone asked him why Moyo and YK weren't being selected and he kept coming up with excuses. He finally relented on Moyo but knew he had to keep YK out of the side.