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Is the Pakistan fans love-affair with the Babar Azam and Mohammad Rizwan partnership over?

Is the Pakistan fans love-affair for Babar Azam and Mohammad Rizwan partnership over now?


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MenInG

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This time last year, Babar and Rizwan were the talk of the town - no fault could be found in what they did. I suppose the 152/0 did bring a lot of happiness in our lives.

But since then, things have steadily gone downhill for the partnership and hate for many has replaced the satisfaction of seeing them bat together.

So, what has happened to make this so and how will can love-affair be reignited again, or is it over?
 
Babar kept a low profile and quietly destroyed careers of other openers

Rizwan just became too big headed.
 
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To start with T20 is not the priority & talk of the town now.

Pakistan has to prepare for 2 upcoming ICC Tournaments

1) ICC World Test Championship final at OVAL JUNE 2023, for that Pakistan has to beat New zealand and England 2-0,2-0 in upcoming test series.

2) ODI World Cup in india. 50 over world cup has proper legacy. Babar & Rizwan do not open in Test matches and neither in ODI’s.

This Babar/Rizwan T20 opening debate will come into picture in early 2024, as June 2024 T20 wc will take place.

Focus of ICC ***** to WTC & ODI WC

T20 is no longer a priority till 2024.
 
Yeah any intelligent fans knew you can't have 2 selfish accumulators as openers. Unfortunately cost us 3 trophies before we learnt.
 
To start with T20 is not the priority & talk of the town now.

Pakistan has to prepare for 2 upcoming ICC Tournaments

1) ICC World Test Championship final at OVAL JUNE 2023, for that Pakistan has to beat New zealand and England 2-0,2-0 in upcoming test series.

2) ODI World Cup in india. 50 over world cup has proper legacy. Babar & Rizwan do not open in Test matches and neither in ODI’s.

This Babar/Rizwan T20 opening debate will come into picture in early 2024, as June 2024 T20 wc will take place.

Focus of ICC ***** to WTC & ODI WC

T20 is no longer a priority till 2024.

We are not in contention for either of those 2. Are Test team is minnow level.
 
To start with T20 is not the priority & talk of the town now.

Pakistan has to prepare for 2 upcoming ICC Tournaments

1) ICC World Test Championship final at OVAL JUNE 2023, for that Pakistan has to beat New zealand and England 2-0,2-0 in upcoming test series.

2) ODI World Cup in india. 50 over world cup has proper legacy. Babar & Rizwan do not open in Test matches and neither in ODI’s.

This Babar/Rizwan T20 opening debate will come into picture in early 2024, as June 2024 T20 wc will take place.

Focus of ICC ***** to WTC & ODI WC

T20 is no longer a priority till 2024.

Why? Do you want people to forget so they go under the Radar and sneak back in a year later as if their cover hasn’t been blown?!
 
We are not in contention for either of those 2. Are Test team is minnow level.

So what are we good at ?

We are minnow in Tests

We are minnow in ODIs

We are not good in T20’s

Any format we are good ? Or half decent ?
 
To start with T20 is not the priority & talk of the town now.

Pakistan has to prepare for 2 upcoming ICC Tournaments

1) ICC World Test Championship final at OVAL JUNE 2023, for that Pakistan has to beat New zealand and England 2-0,2-0 in upcoming test series.

2) ODI World Cup in india. 50 over world cup has proper legacy. Babar & Rizwan do not open in Test matches and neither in ODI’s.

This Babar/Rizwan T20 opening debate will come into picture in early 2024, as June 2024 T20 wc will take place.

Focus of ICC ***** to WTC & ODI WC

T20 is no longer a priority till 2024.
We are a mediocre Test and ODI team, absolutely no hope for either formats as we just do not have the players to be successful in those two formats.

Our T20I team is competitive in international cricket, and they really messed up a good opportunity this World Cup.
 
Why? Do you want people to forget so they go under the Radar and sneak back in a year later as if their cover hasn’t been blown?!

I think correct me if i am wrong

Do Babar and Rizwan open in Tests or ODI’s ?

We need to move on to upcoming icc events. Cant be stuck in present or history.

Accountability can be done sure. Sack babar from captaincy.
 
We are a mediocre Test and ODI team, absolutely no hope for either formats as we just do not have the players to be successful in those two formats.

Our T20I team is competitive in international cricket, and they really messed up a good opportunity this World Cup.

Real opportunity missed was against Sir Matthew Wade. Home ground home conditions. You take Sir Matthew Wade catch you roll over kiwiz you win the world cup in Dubai.

You missed that chance and since then it is all hope
 
Well you don't stop liking your players because they have a poor WC. But they are public figures and should expect alot stick now.

The main reason for Pakistan's flop show in this WC is the opening pair. They have done great in past, but they have completely bottled it here. Rizwan's poor technique was exposed here, but Babar is completey out of form.

Now, if Pakistan don't make it to semis and Australia don't do that either, you can expect these batters to come out and say " Look, Australia, the champion team struggled playing at home, so if we didn't get to semi final, that can also happen".

This excuse will be lame.
 
I think correct me if i am wrong

Do Babar and Rizwan open in Tests or ODI’s ?

We need to move on to upcoming icc events. Cant be stuck in present or history.

Accountability can be done sure. Sack babar from captaincy.

Well then discuss that on other threads related to those subjects

No one is buying your deflection tactics here

They will be grilled for the wrongs they have done. The con has been exposed
 
We are a mediocre Test and ODI team, absolutely no hope for either formats as we just do not have the players to be successful in those two formats.

Our T20I team is competitive in international cricket, and they really messed up a good opportunity this World Cup.

Pakistan are a good ODI side. And getting better every series. Test cricket is a different matter altogether. Pakistan have been consistently mediocre since 1999 . They might improve there as well. But that fornat requires a lot more than just ability
 
So what are we good at ?

We are minnow in Tests

We are minnow in ODIs

We are not good in T20’s

Any format we are good ? Or half decent ?

Apart from Tests 2012 to 2016 we have been a medicore team in all formats apart from the odd success since 2006.
 
Pakistan are a good ODI side. And getting better every series. Test cricket is a different matter altogether. Pakistan have been consistently mediocre since 1999 . They might improve there as well. But that fornat requires a lot more than just ability

We were decent from 2012 to 2016 under Misbah.
 
Well you don't stop liking your players because they have a poor WC. But they are public figures and should expect alot stick now.

The main reason for Pakistan's flop show in this WC is the opening pair. They have done great in past, but they have completely bottled it here. Rizwan's poor technique was exposed here, but Babar is completey out of form.

Now, if Pakistan don't make it to semis and Australia don't do that either, you can expect these batters to come out and say " Look, Australia, the champion team struggled playing at home, so if we didn't get to semi final, that can also happen".

This excuse will be lame.
Babar and Rizwan both struggled with the pace and bounce, also did not help that we had two games out of four at Perth. Said it before the Zimbabwe game that we will struggle against Muzarabani and Ngrava, and they did.
 
Looks like they created a myth without Pakistan the team is toast by playing 50% of the deliveries faced by Pakistan. Basically on an average other 9 batsmen got 60 deliveries to face.
 
yeah [MENTION=2016]Rana[/MENTION] fight admirably for the truth and it finally prevail.

There's nothing prevailing about it, neither there's much truth behind it. They have hit a bad form in this world cup and that's about it. They both have been the run machines for Pakistan when others were barely contributing and they have done it for a long while. Pakistani fans have such a short term memory, perhaps the reason why our cricket is usually in shambles as this mentality runs from fans to board.

Rizwan is fine in opening, but Babar ideal spot is 1 down.
 
Before the beginning of the tournament, most of you were cheerleading for this duo to open the batting for many years to come... well well well ... look how quickly the tide has turned.

The lesson to learn here folks is to be objective. A number of green tinted posters had their heads in the clouds after feasting against B and C string attacks in meaningless bilateral T20Is. A prominent example of this was when Pakistan chased 200+ to secure a 10 wicket win.

On paper that's perfect but if you cannot accomplish big totals against first string bowlers then it means nothing especially if you can't even beat Zimbabwe.

But it serves us right for having a timid captain in place.

One of the reasons why Pakistan is failing at cricket because no one in Pakistan actually understands the game. Pakistanis don’t know how to think objectively and are simply unable to understand the importance of professionalism and work ethic.

The reality is Babar wouldn't be good enough to play for England, Australia, New Zealand and India. Rizwan is what DK is for India, a specialist wicketkeeper without the ugly helmet.
 
Masood and Haris to open. 3rd Babar. 4th Ifti. 5th Rizwan 6th Shadab. 7th Nawaz for the next game. Off course the order can get changed depending on the fall of wickets and runs needed for pinch hitting. This will not happen though under Babar and this management.
 
Babar is fine to open with a guy like fahkar or Haris


Since rizwan has openeded his stats have been amaIng but babar and more importantly Pakistan has suffered
 
So what are we good at ?

We are minnow in Tests

We are minnow in ODIs

We are not good in T20’s

Any format we are good ? Or half decent ?

Just wait till ICC announce the World Cup in the new 5 overs format in a few years time , ICC World Five5.

Pakistan will be a force to reckon with in that format, as Pakistani batsmen are among the worlds best at scoring quickfire 15s and 20s.

Umar Akmal could come back too, good old days.
 
Masood and Haris to open. 3rd Babar. 4th Ifti. 5th Rizwan 6th Shadab. 7th Nawaz for the next game. Off course the order can get changed depending on the fall of wickets and runs needed for pinch hitting. This will not happen though under Babar and this management.

Masood on what merit ?
 
This time last year, Babar and Rizwan were the talk of the town - no fault could be found in what they did. I suppose the 152/0 did bring a lot of happiness in our lives.

But since then, things have steadily gone downhill for the partnership and hate for many has replaced the satisfaction of seeing them bat together.

So, what has happened to make this so and how will can love-affair be reignited again, or is it over?

What can Pakistan fan do?

In the last 40 years, I think THE ONLY opening partners that had some little substance, were Saeed Anwar and Amir Sohail.

Otherwise, we NEVER had anyone who was actually worthy of opening the batting innings. NEVER!

I think we never will..


So whether it's Babar and Rizwa or X and Y ... doesn't make a difference.
 
There's nothing prevailing about it, neither there's much truth behind it. They have hit a bad form in this world cup and that's about it. They both have been the run machines for Pakistan when others were barely contributing and they have done it for a long while. Pakistani fans have such a short term memory, perhaps the reason why our cricket is usually in shambles as this mentality runs from fans to board.

Rizwan is fine in opening, but Babar ideal spot is 1 down.

Yeah bilaterals against C sides are a good gauge of a player.

Not tournament finals and World Cups.

Thats why they are good.
 
We are a mediocre Test and ODI team, absolutely no hope for either formats as we just do not have the players to be successful in those two formats.

Our T20I team is competitive in international cricket, and they really messed up a good opportunity this World Cup.

Our ODI team is perfectly fine with a settled Imam, Fakhar and Babar the top of the order. I would also argue that Nawaz, Shadab and Khushdil are better 50 over players than 20 over ones..
 
No one has been able to provide a convincing argument as to WHO should replace Babar / Rizwan as openers in T20’s (based on facts and logic)

AND PLEASE NO FIXERS!!!
 
Yeah bilaterals against C sides are a good gauge of a player.

Not tournament finals and World Cups.

Thats why they are good.

By your logic - should Rohit and Rahul also be dropped if they are struggling in World Cups
 
By your logic - should Rohit and Rahul also be dropped if they are struggling in World Cups

Are you telling me Babar/Rizwan have gears, capability to play high octane aggressive cricket like KL, Rohit, Warner, Finch, Butler? That too against the world’s best bowlers?

Be honest and fair
 
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Your an old and sensible poster

I don’t like to go hard at your kind

You’ve seen enough cricket. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt that you have

Are you telling me Babar/Rizwan have gears, capability to play high octane aggressive cricket like KL, Rohit, Warner, Finch, Butler? That too against the world’s best bowlers?

Be honest and fair

I’m not saying that - I’m arguing that it is unfair to drop your openers after a few bad games even if it is in the WC.

To answer your question Rohit has not played an “explosive” innings in a long time
 
I’m not saying that - I’m arguing that it is unfair to drop your openers after a few bad games even if it is in the WC.

To answer your question Rohit has not played an “explosive” innings in a long time
Whether he has or not is besides the point

That’s India’s problem anyways. RizBab are our problem. We deal with our problem and not look at what’s not going right for others as the excuse.

The truth is, if you give all of these ‘out of form’ openers their form back…they will do extraordinary things which RizBab are ‘incapable’ of doing as openers. This is the essential truth which I have been fighting tooth and nail for here! They are just not those guys! It’s the God honest truth which you people have been in denial for or purposely/intentionally are dishonest about!
 
Both have had a disappointing tournament so far.

The biggest gripe for many seems to be that neither have so far dropped down the order to allow others a chance at the top of the innings.

It will be interesting to see what happens after this World Cup regarding the opening slots in T20Is for Pakistan.
 
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They will both statpad in the next bilateral series and it will all be forgotten. All said and done they are the only two high class batsmen in our team and they will just have better performance than others. For them to be really challenged, we need to find genuine high class explosive batsmen.
On a separate note, what a tragedy this tournament has been for Babar’s legacy. He doesn’t get the same Test match opportunities in SENA countries because Pak plays so few tests and so won’t ever get a chance to prove his test credentials. That just leaves ODIs and T20s and he needs to have dominant performances in World Cups to create a legacy for himself. This one is gone. Probably has three more WCs while he is at his peak.
 
There's nothing prevailing about it, neither there's much truth behind it. They have hit a bad form in this world cup and that's about it. They both have been the run machines for Pakistan when others were barely contributing and they have done it for a long while. Pakistani fans have such a short term memory, perhaps the reason why our cricket is usually in shambles as this mentality runs from fans to board.

Rizwan is fine in opening, but Babar ideal spot is 1 down.

This People conveniently have forgot that the middle order was non existent till this world cup and rizbabar were the only ones contributing and now all of a sudden they are the axis of evil

Form is temporary quality isnt Theyll be back better than before Its only a matter a time
 
They have had 2 WCs and they have done well in one and failed in the other. Both need to be rested and others need to be tried. There is no point playing the 2 guys when outside the WCs, the T20s have no value( unless we play Ind)
 
I still believe Babar belongs at the top of the order and can score quickly while opening in Australia. He's just been caught in his worst patch since 2018 in NZ. He has shots on either side of the wicket to make use of the ball coming on to the bat nicely.

Rizwan, I had feared might not enjoy Australian conditions because of relative limitations in his arsenal coupled with his short height and him not being very good at hooks and cuts.
 
I’m not saying that - I’m arguing that it is unfair to drop your openers after a few bad games even if it is in the WC.

To answer your question Rohit has not played an “explosive” innings in a long time

Few bad games??
Baber has failed totally in 6 Asia cup matches, 5 out of 7 games in England series, 3 out of 5 games in NZ tri series and is miserable in ongoing WC
Rizwan's innings are highly inconsequential and least impactful. When Pakistan bats first he plays up to 15th overs and never plays match making or winning innings, it always requires extraordinary efforts from bowlers to defend the set target. When Pak bats 2nd he plays too slow, it requires extraordinary innings from someone from middle order to chase the target like Nawaz did in Asia cup against India or couple of matches Haider / Nawaz won in NZ tri series including final.

Both Babar & Rizwan are very much required in T20 team but as professional cricketers they should improve their game as their current batting style is hurting entire team in longer run. That's why Pakistan hasn't won big tournament / bilateral series. Also, they should allow others to develop their game at the top by not playing every single match or should come down the order
 
I’m not saying that - I’m arguing that it is unfair to drop your openers after a few bad games even if it is in the WC.

To answer your question Rohit has not played an “explosive” innings in a long time


He is our non playing captain lol His runs are bonus for India at this point. But if he clicks in one of the match that is going to be impactful. He loves Australian grounds. highest sixes by a non Aussie player in Aussieland in the history.
 
The reason our cricket will most probably not improve because majority of the fans are fickle and extremely biased. Whilst everyone has their personal liking and dislikings it is important to notice some patterns and acknowledge them especially those people who watch matches live on tv and do not only bring up the stats without any context.

In the last 2 years, Babar and Rizwan were extremely successful as an opening pair when we were chasing targets. Whenever we had to chase higher targets, Babar and Rizwan were forced to bat at higher strike rates and provided better innings most of the times. Yes they failed some of the times too and importantly on crucial occasions. Even today, if Pakistan is batting 2nd, 90% of the time Pakistan will chase targets if one of them bats deep. Chasing has never been Pakistan's strength but Babar and Rizwan bring some kind of preference to it. This really excited alot of fans because at that time we could not imagine chasing above 150. We lost Zimbabwe match because they both got out early and these kind of embarrassing defeats will come further if we remove players like Babar and Rizwan from the team altogether. One thing is clear one of them should definitely go one down now but removing any one of them just because of certain hatred from fans is going to create that unpredictable game back which won't allow us to win anything for next few years more.
Babar and Rizwan were poor batting first always. If they bat long batting 1st, most of the times the final score will be par. This allows the better teams to chase par targets in crucial matches ( Pak vs Aus rewinds). Pak Vs South Africa is another example that all players feel less pressure batting 1st on the pitch and they perform better. Perhaps our batting order should always be more aggressive when we bat 1st and Babar and Rizwan both should not open. Instead 3 or 4 if openers get out early would be fine otherwise one of them would be enough and all other power hitters can come in. Only this way Pakistan can be world beaters if they have players for all situations. If we have all hitters and strike rate players then we will have poor matches too and chances of collapses would also be high.

Therefore, it is my request to Pak fans to stop being fickle and do not totally discard Babar or Rizwan as batsmen. They are still your most trusted batsmen but it is true we need them to stabilise innings when needed. Opener's role is to attack upfront but if both openers lose wickets in powerplay then we need stability. There is a stat that if teams lose 3 or more wickets in powerplay especially batting 1st they lose very high percentage of times. We also need to understand that Pakistan vs South Africa was an anomoly. Very less times Pakistan will make such a great comeback from 43 for 4 and it is true for all teams actually.
 
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There's nothing prevailing about it, neither there's much truth behind it. They have hit a bad form in this world cup and that's about it. They both have been the run machines for Pakistan when others were barely contributing and they have done it for a long while. Pakistani fans have such a short term memory, perhaps the reason why our cricket is usually in shambles as this mentality runs from fans to board.

Rizwan is fine in opening, but Babar ideal spot is 1 down.

Well written and great post.

If i am Babar and Rizwan i am very tempted to take a long break from the format after this WC. And then start the timer to see how long it takes before people start begging us to return.

The disrespect they've been shown by our own former cricketers and media has been astonishing. Every success of theirs is met with excuses, every failure met with unnerving glee.

It's time to show everyone the hard way what they really bring to the side.
 
Yeah bilaterals against C sides are a good gauge of a player.

Not tournament finals and World Cups.

Thats why they are good.

I am sure World Cup 2021 cannot be considered bilateral. England bowlers are also mostly same that played against Pakistan (Wood, Woakes, Curran, Adil, Moeen), and so are New Zealand bowlers except Lockie. Form is temporary both are class players and will come good again, but Pakistan do need one dynamic opener and should have tried different players including Haris last few series they played.
 
Babar and Fakhar should open. Muhammad Haris should come in at #3.

Rizwan should be a floater.
 
I am sure World Cup 2021 cannot be considered bilateral. England bowlers are also mostly same that played against Pakistan (Wood, Woakes, Curran, Adil, Moeen), and so are New Zealand bowlers except Lockie. Form is temporary both are class players and will come good again, but Pakistan do need one dynamic opener and should have tried different players including Haris last few series they played.

Form is temporary

Incompetence and not being cut for the role is permanent

You don’t get it do you Premi? RizBab can score 100-0 in 14 overs

That’s still rubbish. They are rubbish T20 openers regardless of stats and averages
 
I am sure World Cup 2021 cannot be considered bilateral. England bowlers are also mostly same that played against Pakistan (Wood, Woakes, Curran, Adil, Moeen), and so are New Zealand bowlers except Lockie. Form is temporary both are class players and will come good again, but Pakistan do need one dynamic opener and should have tried different players including Haris last few series they played.

In that series, Babar scored c.40% of his runs in that one game where they chased 200+. Wood and Woakes did not play so him and Rizwan treated themselves against a severely depleted pace attack.
 
If there is no need for him, he can bat at #7 or #8 (maybe even lower). If there is a bad collapse, he can come in early.

His main job is keeping.

Now you're making sense.

He is our specialist wicket keeper and our version of DK. Just like how India utilise him, we should bat him at 8 in order to hide his embarrassing technique on the offside.
 
Now you're making sense.

He is our specialist wicket keeper and our version of DK. Just like how India utilise him, we should bat him at 8 in order to hide his embarrassing technique on the offside.

Just goes to show, Misbah was an absolute fool for replacing Sarfaraz for the sake of it and completely unbalancing our side for no reason whatsoever
 
Just goes to show, Misbah was an absolute fool for replacing Sarfaraz for the sake of it and completely unbalancing our side for no reason whatsoever

Rizwan is no upgrade on Sarfraz as a batsman but he's definitely a far superior wicket keeper. As batsmen they're both mediocre. It's a shame that we produce the worst wicket-keeper batsmen. Even Zimbabwe, Afghanistan and Bangladesh produce more competent batsmen from their best wicket keepers.

Where Misbah totally messed up is letting Rizwan open and lull him into a false sense of security by insisting that him and Babar can bat at a run a ball during the powerplay.

This is why we need a competent overseas coach who can destroy the Misbah school of thought.

Our white ball cricket has regressed immensely after replacing him with Mickey. He would never allow Babar and Rizwan to operate like this even if they were opening together under his management.

Kudos to you for being the very first on PP to spot how unsustainable this opening duo really is.
 
Even if we were to arrange 7 x T20Is against Nepal with RizBar scoring a ton each for themselves in the series, the green tinted hype brigade will somehow forget the 2021 WT20 SF, Asia Cup Final and the 2022 WT20 tournament.

Too many of our gullible fans buy into the hype of their own players after feasting against B and C string bowling attacks.

It reeks of small team mentality from our players and fans. Misbah is to be blamed for bringing about this mentality.
 
People going on about b and c string bowling attacks forget we had our own shaheen not playing because of injury and fakhar

Playefs get injured or are rested That is a fact of life to say Babar and Riz cant play good pacers is a joke and totally disrespectful

These guys have multiple test and odi centuries against the likes of Aus Eng Sth Africa etc

Lets not insult them Babar has been the best thing thats happened to pakistan cricket in the last decade

People have short memories They deserve the likes of Akmal junior and Senior and the comedy and drama that came with them
 
Masood on what merit ?
Masood on what merit ?

What has Merit got to do in Pakistan?

Anyhow, Rizwan is fine on low bounce surfaces. His legside hacks, though ugly yet effective, work on such surfaces. NOT in AUSTRALIA. Anyone with a little understanding of cricket could foresee it. He has not been getting time and required bounce to step outside off and swat the ball. His built is unsuitable for such tracks.
Shan Masood is there whether you like him or not (unfortunately). He has height to play bounce and technique to play short ball. First 6 overs will not only give him time to settle (We will be one down in those overs anyways knowing the frequency of failure of openers on these tracks). Provide him license to attack. While there is field restriction, he has higher survival chances. We will get tested by short balls if we managed to beat BD and Ind loses to Zim - you never know. IFFFF we get to the SF, we WILL lose our regular openers in the first 6 overs whether it is Eng, NZ, or AU (less likely to go thru like us) since we will get peppered by short balls. BD cannot test us much with short stuff. However, if Babar and Rizwan open and more than likely succeed against BD pop gun attack (barring Taskin), we will be back to square one. If we go through to SF with current opening pair, then may GOD have mercy on us. Too much I have in my head, not much time. Thanks.
 
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People going on about b and c string bowling attacks forget we had our own shaheen not playing because of injury and fakhar

Playefs get injured or are rested That is a fact of life to say Babar and Riz cant play good pacers is a joke and totally disrespectful

These guys have multiple test and odi centuries against the likes of Aus Eng Sth Africa etc

Lets not insult them Babar has been the best thing thats happened to pakistan cricket in the last decade

People have short memories They deserve the likes of Akmal junior and Senior and the comedy and drama that came with them

If I could take the two talented, gifted Akmal bros today over Shan, Rizwan, Khushdil and Haider…I would in a heartbeat

Akmal batting gene was gifted whether you like it or not
 
Rizwan is no upgrade on Sarfraz as a batsman but he's definitely a far superior wicket keeper. As batsmen they're both mediocre. It's a shame that we produce the worst wicket-keeper batsmen. Even Zimbabwe, Afghanistan and Bangladesh produce more competent batsmen from their best wicket keepers.

Where Misbah totally messed up is letting Rizwan open and lull him into a false sense of security by insisting that him and Babar can bat at a run a ball during the powerplay.

This is why we need a competent overseas coach who can destroy the Misbah school of thought.

Our white ball cricket has regressed immensely after replacing him with Mickey. He would never allow Babar and Rizwan to operate like this even if they were opening together under his management.

Kudos to you for being the very first on PP to spot how unsustainable this opening duo really is.

Literally everything about this post and others you've made are pure fantasy.

I would like to ask though. Instead of dreaming up imaginary situations which have never happened, are you able to do something revolutionary and actually back up your statements?

I'm particularly interesed in the 'run a ball' powerplay claim. Please evidence this.
 
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I believe it should be over. More times than not, and especially in the crucial games that Pakistan have played in the past year, RizBar have not taken full toll of the PP.

Moving forward post-WC, Babar needs to bat at 3 and Fakhar needs to open with Rizwan. I know he did well at 3 vs SA but I think Mohammad Haris should bat at 4 as when he'd come out to bat, most likely he'll be with Babar more times than not and with Babar at the other end, Haris will feel comfortable to play his shots.

My XI post-WC:
Riz
Fakhar
Babar
Haris
Iftikhar
Shadab
Nawaz
Wasim/Imad (if extra spinner required)
Shaheen
Naseem
Rauf
 
No. Opening in Australia has been difficult for everyone, not just Babar and Rizwan. These two are still the best opening pairing in the world, not just Pakistan, and they deserve a far longer rope than this.

The next world cup will be in the West Indies and the USA and those pitches should suit Babar and Rizwan much better. Both these guys are just coming into their peak and they have the potential to get better.

Breaking this partnership this early will be an emotional reaction with zero upside. The only reason Rizwan was made to open in the first place was that none of our other openers were any good.

There is also the fact that if you don't have them open, you can't play them anywhere else. Both of them need the powerplay to get their innings off to a good start and then they bat long through the middle overs before getting their eye in and going on the charge at the death. Batting either of them at #3 robs them of their best gameplan and will lead to mediocre results.

Let's use the next two years to develop a middle order. Mohammad Haris had a good innings so he shouldb be given more chances at #3. Iftikhar has finally come good and become a good #4. Find a couple more middle-order batsmen and we have a great team.
 
One of most boring dull partnerships in t20 cricket . Fans got excited with Harris because Pakistan haven’t been used to such Fireworks . Clearly Pakistan doesn’t need this conservative pair . As we saw they might win you bilateral but will fail at big tournaments
 
If I could take the two talented, gifted Akmal bros today over Shan, Rizwan, Khushdil and Haider…I would in a heartbeat

Akmal batting gene was gifted whether you like it or not

Talent and gifted are overated

Talent without hard work brains and dedication is nothing

For all their "talunt" these guys were terrible professionals and were poor performers and rightly nowhere to be seen now

Give me a rizwan and babar anyday over these two
 
No. Opening in Australia has been difficult for everyone, not just Babar and Rizwan. These two are still the best opening pairing in the world, not just Pakistan, and they deserve a far longer rope than this.

The next world cup will be in the West Indies and the USA and those pitches should suit Babar and Rizwan much better. Both these guys are just coming into their peak and they have the potential to get better.

Breaking this partnership this early will be an emotional reaction with zero upside. The only reason Rizwan was made to open in the first place was that none of our other openers were any good.

There is also the fact that if you don't have them open, you can't play them anywhere else. Both of them need the powerplay to get their innings off to a good start and then they bat long through the middle overs before getting their eye in and going on the charge at the death. Batting either of them at #3 robs them of their best gameplan and will lead to mediocre results.

Let's use the next two years to develop a middle order. Mohammad Haris had a good innings so he shouldb be given more chances at #3. Iftikhar has finally come good and become a good #4. Find a couple more middle-order batsmen and we have a great team.

I can revisit all the posts where RiZBab fans argued that Australia would suit their batting more after their lethargic batting in UAE during Asia cup

Next RizBab fans would argue they are better suited to play on Venus or Neptune.
 
I can revisit all the posts where RiZBab fans argued that Australia would suit their batting more after their lethargic batting in UAE during Asia cup

Next RizBab fans would argue they are better suited to play on Venus or Neptune.

Form is temporary Many players have underwhelmed in this world up doesnt mean they are bad players

Riz and Babar will be back
 
Form is temporary Many players have underwhelmed in this world up doesnt mean they are bad players

Riz and Babar will be back

Yes

InshaAllah they will be back doing whatever they want for their franchises in PSL, no bearing whatsoever on the national side.
 
Yes

InshaAllah they will be back doing whatever they want for their franchises in PSL, no bearing whatsoever on the national side.

They ll be playing for the national team despite what you hope and wish for

Pakistan doesnt have the quality in personell to drop and replace their best batsman and best wk batsman
 
They ll be playing for the national team despite what you hope and wish for

Pakistan doesnt have the quality in personell to drop and replace their best batsman and best wk batsman

Harris is as good a keeper as Rizwan, and a far more dynamic top order player

Rizwan will be no one, Harris will be the one who creates history
 
Harris is as good a keeper as Rizwan, and a far more dynamic top order player

Rizwan will be no one, Harris will be the one who creates history

Rizwan already did

152/0.

Remember that game which filled us with so much joy?
 
Rizwan already did

152/0.

Remember that game which filled us with so much joy?

It was a lifetime ago. If they are great, they won’t be getting so much flak as they are now.
 
There were some who questioned the logic of two anchors opening the innings from the start. No other T20I team adopts this approach for good reason, but Pakistan's team management arrogantly believed they found a magic formula.

To be fair, it worked against modest attacks in inconsequential bilaterals, and above all in the 2021 World Cup streak ending victory vs India which bought them a lot of grace.

However their limitations were evident in crunch games - AUS SF (batting too slowly on a belter), Asia Cup final, decider vs ENG, and NZ tri-series final to name a few. Repeatedly in chases they'd leave the crease with the RRR higher than when they entered putting huge pressure on an already fragile middle order, despite enjoying the field restrictions. Together their PP RPO is little over 7 - amongst the lowest in world. Now this World Cup has exposed them totally.

Teams have exploited Rizwan's lack of footwork to balls outside off and reliance on legside scoring shots. Rizwan's pre-WC record in AUS (T20s - avg 15 at 90; ODIs - avg 17 at 62) also should've rang alarm bells about his suitability to open.

Babar is a more infuriating case. Easily the most gifted batsman of his generation who can dominate attacks but shows zero intent to do so, and stays in comfort zone of orthodox batting. He's developed every aspect of his game except powerhitting, as if it's something beneath him. His stubborn insistence to open has actively cost us games, and it's high time we hire a hardnosed foreign coach to challenge Babar on his selfishness and poor decisions.
 
I think one of them should make way for an explosive opener...but considering what they have done over the last 2 years I'm not gonna make it my life's ambition to slag 'em off at every opportunity I get ... like a toilet break.

Looking at the talent of Pak T20 side or the lack of it, what excuses the naysayers are gonna come up when the changes fail to deliver?
 
There were some who questioned the logic of two anchors opening the innings from the start. No other T20I team adopts this approach for good reason, but Pakistan's team management arrogantly believed they found a magic formula.

To be fair, it worked against modest attacks in inconsequential bilaterals, and above all in the 2021 World Cup streak ending victory vs India which bought them a lot of grace.

However their limitations were evident in crunch games - AUS SF (batting too slowly on a belter), Asia Cup final, decider vs ENG, and NZ tri-series final to name a few. Repeatedly in chases they'd leave the crease with the RRR higher than when they entered putting huge pressure on an already fragile middle order, despite enjoying the field restrictions. Together their PP RPO is little over 7 - amongst the lowest in world. Now this World Cup has exposed them totally.

Teams have exploited Rizwan's lack of footwork to balls outside off and reliance on legside scoring shots. Rizwan's pre-WC record in AUS (T20s - avg 15 at 90; ODIs - avg 17 at 62) also should've rang alarm bells about his suitability to open.

Babar is a more infuriating case. Easily the most gifted batsman of his generation who can dominate attacks but shows zero intent to do so, and stays in comfort zone of orthodox batting. He's developed every aspect of his game except powerhitting, as if it's something beneath him. His stubborn insistence to open has actively cost us games, and it's high time we hire a hardnosed foreign coach to challenge Babar on his selfishness and poor decisions.

Sorry but this isnt entirely true They havent been exposed. In some games theyve just got out early like the eng decider which can happen to anyone

You fail to point out these openers have been part of and played major roles in several of pakistans highest t20 scores If they were selfish or limited with little intent that wouldnt have been the case

Rizs record in aus maybe modest but the sample size is too small for alarm bells to be ringing

In this world cup many players have struggled this doesnt mean they are exposed or selfish Statements like that are totally below the belt

Yes all of our players need challenging and keeping on their toes so their fitness, practice, strategy, form and intent are aligned with the team goals including riz and babar

They should all be challenged to make better decisions on the pitch

Babar and Rizwan dont need singling out in this respect
 
This People conveniently have forgot that the middle order was non existent till this world cup and rizbabar were the only ones contributing and now all of a sudden they are the axis of evil

Form is temporary quality isnt Theyll be back better than before Its only a matter a time

Yeah, and the argument is that they only performed in bilaterals. Are not those bi-lateral series were also international matches. If all those series have so much of less importance than better play an A team in them. And apart from the last game nothing special came from the middle order and usually they performs only once in a blue moon. Even in the last asia cup and last t20 world cup it was the openers who performed consistently, middle order was non-existent.
 
It was a lifetime ago. If they are great, they won’t be getting so much flak as they are now.

Humaree zuban mai isko nashukra-pun kehtay hain.

NO it was in this lifetime and we all were very proud of that time and Inshallah that time will come again

They are not great but they aren't as bad as you make it out in every other post.
 
Humaree zuban mai isko nashukra-pun kehtay hain.

NO it was in this lifetime and we all were very proud of that time and Inshallah that time will come again

They are not great but they aren't as bad as you make it out in every other post.

They are not bad but they are not great either

I have nothing to gain from two 40+ averaging batsman being booted out of two opening positions besides the will and determination of my team doing the right thing, the right approach to match the best teams in the world! I would go after anyone who isn’t playing this game in the right approach. In case you haven’t noticed, I have already singled out the future RizBab mentality openers and have done a great service to this nation and it’s fans by trying my best for us to not repeat this mistake.

Also, how is it Na shukri when it is criticism of these two, but the RizBab fans are constantly demeaning, belittling players of the past who have won the World Cup for us?? Just go through the Kamran v Rizwan thread. Where does ‘na shukri’ go then?
 
They are not bad but they are not great either

I have nothing to gain from two 40+ averaging batsman being booted out of two opening positions besides the will and determination of my team doing the right thing, the right approach to match the best teams in the world! I would go after anyone who isn’t playing this game in the right approach. In case you haven’t noticed, I have already singled out the future RizBab mentality openers and have done a great service to this nation and it’s fans by trying my best for us to not repeat this mistake.

Also, how is it Na shukri when it is criticism of these two, but the RizBab fans are constantly demeaning, belittling players of the past who have won the World Cup for us?? Just go through the Kamran v Rizwan thread. Where does ‘na shukri’ go then?

Topic is Rizwan and Babar.

You are free to make that statement there.

My problem with this constant criticism of Rizwan and Babar is that it seems to think that by removing them we will win the next World Cup.

It's a convenient way to paper over cracks.
 
Topic is Rizwan and Babar.

You are free to make that statement there.

My problem with this constant criticism of Rizwan and Babar is that it seems to think that by removing them we will win the next World Cup.

It's a convenient way to paper over cracks.

Paper over the cracks is the reason why they exist as openers in this side. Rizwan’s whole career as a T20 opener was because of Misbah ul Haq putting a paper over a crack which he created by ousting Sarfaraz Ahmed as a Captain and Middle order batsman, and guess what? It created the biggest crack we have seen in the history of our team with the constant failures of the middle order in the short span of a year or so!

Pakistan has two years now. The preparation for the next World Cup starts tomorrow (once we are out).

The blue print needs to change.

1. Identity the openers who will target 60 in the powerplay

2. Identity the batsmen capable of batting 3-6 now

3. Identify your lower order and bowlers now.

*Rizwan and Babar have no business whatsoever in no.1!
 
Yeah, and the argument is that they only performed in bilaterals. Are not those bi-lateral series were also international matches. If all those series have so much of less importance than better play an A team in them. And apart from the last game nothing special came from the middle order and usually they performs only once in a blue moon. Even in the last asia cup and last t20 world cup it was the openers who performed consistently, middle order was non-existent.

See the point is pakistan has major issues in all depts of the game but shifting the whole malaise onto riz babar is short sighted and will not help correct the shortcomings of the others

The bowlers- theyve underperformed for months Be it the asia cup final against sri lanka or against india and zimbabwe ij this world cup Several times pakistan have had the opposition on the ropes but failed to close the game letting it drift to the point where teams have posted defendable totals or won games chasing they had no business winning
The lack of yorkers at the death has been telling, with only the likes of M Waseem actually targeting the stumps at the death


Middle order - Throughout the last yr the middle order have failed to show up at the party. Asif Ali Haider Khushdil have failed terribly at every opportunity to the point they are out of the team
This failure has meant that babar has had to turn to a shan masood who isnt a t20 player and giving shadab and nawaz more responsibility with the bat which has sometimes worked and sometimes now
The middle options remains terrible and pakistan are still a couple of players short in this regard

The fielding for a while now had been terrible with catches spilt, fielders colliding and misfields costing games Tbh theyve been pretty good this world cup but still in a game of fine margins they are badly lacking and behind other teams in fielding awareness ie palming the ball back from it going for a six or boundary catches where throwing the ball back into play

Yes babar and Riz need challenging on their strike rates but when a team has so many holes as mentioned above its not entirely fair to single out players and put all the blame on one or two of them
 
Sorry but this isnt entirely true They havent been exposed. In some games theyve just got out early like the eng decider which can happen to anyone

You fail to point out these openers have been part of and played major roles in several of pakistans highest t20 scores If they were selfish or limited with little intent that wouldnt have been the case

Rizs record in aus maybe modest but the sample size is too small for alarm bells to be ringing

In this world cup many players have struggled this doesnt mean they are exposed or selfish Statements like that are totally below the belt

Yes all of our players need challenging and keeping on their toes so their fitness, practice, strategy, form and intent are aligned with the team goals including riz and babar

They should all be challenged to make better decisions on the pitch

Babar and Rizwan dont need singling out in this respect

1) Zaz I'm sorry if my language against these two seems harsh recently but surely you can understand fans' anger and frustration that we're on the verge of a group stage exit of the World Cup.

T20 World Cups represent our best chance of winning a World Cup. The best side doesn't always win, you just need a well timed run. Therefore you can't expect a much vaunted opening pair sitting high in ICC rankings who haven't performed to evade criticism - especially when this pair was touted as a strength by its management.

2) I mentioned Babar and Rizwan's successes in my second paragraph. However I also explained some of those were against modest attacks including those big chases you refer to. The 203 chase vs SAF in 2021 came after their key bowlers left for IPL.

Their attack that day: Linde, Hendricks, Williams, Shamsi and Magala.

The 199 chase vs ENG came without their key pacers Mark Wood. Yes you can only play what's in front of you, but you can't deny their records were partly inflated by this.

3) Senior players have a responsibility to lead by example and place the team's interests ahead of theirs. Babar's refusal to bat at 3 however has imbalanced the side. To not try different opening pairs in inconsequential matches and give others confidence shows a captain unwilling to step out of his comfort zones.
 
Paper over the cracks is the reason why they exist as openers in this side. Rizwan’s whole career as a T20 opener was because of Misbah ul Haq putting a paper over a crack which he created by ousting Sarfaraz Ahmed as a Captain and Middle order batsman, and guess what? It created the biggest crack we have seen in the history of our team with the constant failures of the middle order in the short span of a year or so!

Pakistan has two years now. The preparation for the next World Cup starts tomorrow (once we are out).

The blue print needs to change.

1. Identity the openers who will target 60 in the powerplay

2. Identity the batsmen capable of batting 3-6 now

3. Identify your lower order and bowlers now.

*Rizwan and Babar have no business whatsoever in no.1!

You cant blame the failure of players on others
Haider Ali Khushdil or Asif Ali have to take responsibilty for their own poor to awful performances These guys have failed in every aspect of play whether it be technique, game awareness or actual IQ

Its stupid shortsighted to keep banging on about two players when the team has more holes in it than the titanic

You can keep dreaming about getting 60 in the power play But the fact is and which you seem to be in denial about the fact that pakistan doesnt have world beating openers you wish who will get these scores and like many have said before the games isnt played over 6 overs but 20
 
Funnily enough, the only Pakistani batsmen to come out of the World Cup with any credit is Chacha!
 
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