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Is the stat-padding culture hurting Pakistan cricket?

We're not just talking about this game. Thread is about stat padding culture as a whole.

We all know our "big hitters" are not reliable. They are no Razzaq/Afridi. Also, Fakhar, Rizwan, Imam all play the same role in the team; i.e. set the base up. We can't have 4 players playing 40+ overs in an ODI at a strike rate of 90.

We have seen enough of Babar to know that he doesn't change the way he plays. So, let's not kid ourselves with made up scenarios.

Afridi also scored 30 ducks in ODIs. They are different players with different abilities and Shahid failed much more than he succeeded but he was glamourous so people love him.
 
Not this nonsense again.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the way Babar and Imam play ODI cricket. They are two fantastic players in this format and Pakistan is lucky to have them.

End of story.
 
Babar went from 75 (86) to 100 (113).

That's 25 runs from 27 balls, 0 boundaries.

This was point I was trying to make, just a boring selfish go slow in final part of his inns and final 10 overs of team inns.
 
There is nothing wrong with Babar scoring a 100 off 113 if others around him are hitters.

Babar has his limitations he can't hit a boundary at will. He doesn't have higher gears. Time people accept this and plan around this. Let the team have stroke players and hitters play around him and let him anchor the innings.So that the team's score doesn't suffer.
 
There is nothing wrong with Babar scoring a 100 off 113 if others around him are hitters.

Babar has his limitations he can't hit a boundary at will. He doesn't have higher gears. Time people accept this and plan around this. Let the team have stroke players and hitters play around him and let him anchor the innings.So that the team's score doesn't suffer.

That’s an extreme statement.
Babar’s SR excluding UAE is at par with Kohli, who’s played majority of his cricket in small and flat grounds of India driving Career SR up. Whereas, Babar’s career SR suffers due to a ton of games in big and slow grounds of UAE where 130-150 is par.

Babar’s SR in T20s is more than 140 in most countries. Babar’s boundary hitting is one of the best in the world. He’s not a six hitter and that’s where he lags behind his peers, but he more than makes up with boundary hitting ability.

The apparent nature to slow down before the century mark is a problem. But this is no exclusive to him or to Pakistani batsmen.
 
There is nothing wrong with Babar scoring a 100 off 113 if others around him are hitters.

Babar has his limitations he can't hit a boundary at will. He doesn't have higher gears. Time people accept this and plan around this. Let the team have stroke players and hitters play around him and let him anchor the innings.So that the team's score doesn't suffer.

Babar can't hit boundaries is a load of rubbish. In ODis now you have an extra man in the circle so any half decent batsmen has extra scope in the field to knock off boundaries due to the extra space. There are simply no excuses to slow down, imam does the same all the time.

All because of personal achievements rather then taking risks for the team.
 
Poor by Babar in the end

We needed to score 38 in last 2 overs to make up for Babar’s selfishness

I have said a million times, if our batters want to play selfishly then dont play with 8 damn batters!! We need to drop a batter and strengthen the bowling

I am not a fan of playing with 4 and a half bowlers
 
Babar slowed down in the last part to reach 100 and like most of the times got out, after scoring the 100.

How often does he score a 100 of 80 balls?

It is what it is, but he would be even better as a player / captain if he would focus less on personal scores.
 
I see no wrong . Babar, Rizwan, Imam , Fakhar are their best batters in LOI. The way they play is very much acceptable. They are doing well.
 
Pakistani fans have a new obsession: if you take single and doubles after you cross 40 or 90, you add being selfish.

PCB should instruct the batsmen to close their eyes and swing blindly and aim for 200 meter sixes as soon as they get close to personal milestones to please these fans.
 
Pakistani fans have a new obsession: if you take single and doubles after you cross 40 or 90, you add being selfish.

PCB should instruct the batsmen to close their eyes and swing blindly and aim for 200 meter sixes as soon as they get close to personal milestones to please these fans.

If these singles occur in the death overs when the team needs to be accelerating then it obviously hurts the team as those balls are practically wasted and the teams ends up with 20-30 runs short. I have always seen Sehwag bring up his centuries with boundaries and sixes and that's how it should be.
 
That is rather obvious. Babar should try to look at the older Hafeez to learn how to hit a cricket ball without losing your shape. That's the kind of approach he should be taking to hitting. More timing and placement and less brute force because he doesn't have much of it and loses shape if he tries to hit it too hard.

Hafeez credited golf for improving his power hitting base and technique. The PCB needs to push players to look into golf for helping our players with power hitting.
 
Fakhar Zaman is the only player in the line up who I would back to score a really big daddy hundred and accelerate really well towards the end of his innings once he crosses hundred.
 
Pakistani fans have a new obsession: if you take single and doubles after you cross 40 or 90, you add being selfish.

PCB should instruct the batsmen to close their eyes and swing blindly and aim for 200 meter sixes as soon as they get close to personal milestones to please these fans.

We can thank our lucky stars that PCB will do no such thing to please some statisticians
 
Pakistani fans have a new obsession: if you take single and doubles after you cross 40 or 90, you add being selfish.

PCB should instruct the batsmen to close their eyes and swing blindly and aim for 200 meter sixes as soon as they get close to personal milestones to please these fans.

What a stupid logical extreme you picked. No one said players have to blindly slog and aim for 200M sixes, you really do pick some nonsense.

The way the fielding restrictions and number of men in circle these days in ODIs, players should find it easy to accelerate as their is more scope to score boundaries.

Your silly logic is always oh fans are expecting a six to be hit every ball.

At least use a bit of common sense rather than picking some dumb extreme no asked for.
 
Pakistani fans have a new obsession: if you take single and doubles after you cross 40 or 90, you add being selfish.

PCB should instruct the batsmen to close their eyes and swing blindly and aim for 200 meter sixes as soon as they get close to personal milestones to please these fans.

Mamoon brother

How can you justify intentionally taking singles in the death overs boss? No one is saying Babar isn’t a great bat, it’s just really poor intent from a general batting perspective. Pakistan had 6 wickets in the hut at the time
 
First, the term stat padding was invented. Then the argument of runs against B, C teams. Now, it's the 20 singles in the last 20 runs.

Babar has grounded his overseas haters into the mud while Pakistan gets to No.1 in rankings and he sits at the throne.
 
This doesn't really have an impact in matches where Pakistans wins easily and the opposition is missing a number of players.

When it really matters is those matches which are close and the game goes down to the wire.
 
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This doesn't really have an impact in matches where Pakistans wins easily and the opposition is missing a number of players.

When it really matters is those matches which are close and the game goes down to the wire.

It came back to haunt them in the 5th T20i against NZ c team.

If Babar does this batting first against Australia in the Semis of a World Cup, and the Aussies chase down the runs…I would be surprised if Babar doesn’t have to take refuge in Avonsfield like Nawaz Shareef before returning to Pakistan one day
 
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The concern obviously is that it becomes a habit and crucial dot balls are played out or singles are scored when batters should be going for boundaries.
 
The concern obviously is that it becomes a habit and crucial dot balls are played out or singles are scored when batters should be going for boundaries.

It's a selfish habit all our top 4 have in odis and T20s apart from fakhar.
 
I have always held the view that to be a successful batsman you have to be somewhat selfish and I'm all for stat padding because it's part of the game.
 
Yeah T20 tons are a joke

50+ tons in ODI+ Test is what matters

While tons in tests & ODIs are more prestigious, one can argue that scoring tons in T20s is harder, because of the limited amount of overs available.
 
What a stupid logical extreme you picked. No one said players have to blindly slog and aim for 200M sixes, you really do pick some nonsense.

The way the fielding restrictions and number of men in circle these days in ODIs, players should find it easy to accelerate as their is more scope to score boundaries.

Your silly logic is always oh fans are expecting a six to be hit every ball.

At least use a bit of common sense rather than picking some dumb extreme no asked for.

Mamoon brother

How can you justify intentionally taking singles in the death overs boss? No one is saying Babar isn’t a great bat, it’s just really poor intent from a general batting perspective. Pakistan had 6 wickets in the hut at the time

The reality is that personal milestones matter. This concept that a batsman should not care for fifties and hundreds and only care for the team’s score is nonsense to be honest.

Almost every batsman in history has had a smidge of selfishness about him. Obviously, if you need 25 in the last over and you take a single of the first ball you to get to your hundred that would be unforgivable but no one does that.

However, if you are close to a milestone, it is only natural that you will become more risk-averse because you have eyes on the milestone.

Batsmen throughout history have been slowing down when approaching milestones but it has only become a thing recently to bash them for it.

Look at Kohli, Sharma etc. they do the same. From the subcontinent, Sehwag was the only odd one out who preferred to get to his milestones with sixes.

This “let’s not care about individual milestones” mentality is more of an English cricket thing post 2015 and I respect what they are doing. Their batsmen couldn’t care less if they miss out on a fifty or a hundred because they only focus on scoring quickly.

Even a master batsman like Joe Root has missed out on at least 10 Test centuries because of trying to play risky scoops close to his milestones instead of playing it safe.

However, you cannot expect everyone else to do the same. Batsmen will always want to achieve milestones. It is part of the game. They want their team to win but they also want to score runs individually.

At the end of the day, you are not only judged and remembered for being part of a winning team but you are also remembered for your individual statistics.

Please try to understand this. Most batsmen will always become more risk-averse when approaching a milestone even regardless of whether it is the death overs or not.

The only situation where they will not -or should not- slow down is if they are chasing a total and the RRR is too steep for them to not try to hit a boundary every ball. In other situations it is acceptable and expected.

“Nervous nineties” is a timeless concept in cricket. It has existed since the day the game was invented and the concept of individual milestones was established.

As per modern fans there should be no nervous nineties because a batsman shouldn’t care if he is on 99 or 29 because they only thing matters is the team score.

Unless and until you eliminate the concept of milestones, players will always want to achieve them. It is the nature of the sport and please do not try to change something that has always existed. Batsmen have always cared for and become risk-averse when approaching a milestones.

Just because one generation from one team is doing things differently it doesn’t mean it will be adopted by others and it will continue like that forever.
 
So seems Pakistan do well when he gets to his milestones

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Babar Azam has 18 ODI hundreds - Pakistan has won 14 times when he has scored a hundred in ODIs<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@SajSadiqCricket) <a href="https://twitter.com/SajSadiqCricket/status/1655127532474073089?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 7, 2023</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
If you score a hundred at a good rate and your team loses, it is not your fault. It is your teammates fault for not supporting you.

Pakistani fans should be lucky that they finally have three top-order ODI players who know how to score hundreds.

This “stats padding” term means absolutely nothing. It is a new invention.

Every quality batsman with a high average is a “stats padder” because they could all have sacrificed that average by trying to score more quickly and taking more risks.
 
If you score a hundred at a good rate and your team loses, it is not your fault. It is your teammates fault for not supporting you.

Pakistani fans should be lucky that they finally have three top-order ODI players who know how to score hundreds.

This “stats padding” term means absolutely nothing. It is a new invention.

Every quality batsman with a high average is a “stats padder” because they could all have sacrificed that average by trying to score more quickly and taking more risks.

You're spot on.
 
If you score a hundred at a good rate and your team loses, it is not your fault. It is your teammates fault for not supporting you.

Pakistani fans should be lucky that they finally have three top-order ODI players who know how to score hundreds.

This “stats padding” term means absolutely nothing. It is a new invention.

Every quality batsman with a high average is a “stats padder” because they could all have sacrificed that average by trying to score more quickly and taking more risks.

I don't think the average is what people are concerned about.

It's the taking it easy before a milestone - wasting deliveries, dot balls and singles when boundaries should be scored.

And then you lose by a couple of runs, that's the concern.
 
If you score a hundred at a good rate and your team loses, it is not your fault. It is your teammates fault for not supporting you.

Pakistani fans should be lucky that they finally have three top-order ODI players who know how to score hundreds.

This “stats padding” term means absolutely nothing. It is a new invention.

Every quality batsman with a high average is a “stats padder” because they could all have sacrificed that average by trying to score more quickly and taking more risks.
There is a balance to be struck. As a player your job is to score runs but with the greater goal of winning the game. I think PK batsman struggle to get the balance right when they bat 1st, and generally against the better teams we are 10% short( anecdotal observation).
 
@TheSultan

Please add your observations on stat padding in recent games etc
For one, Babar’s refusal to declare in the test vs SL when we had plenty on the board even before Rizwan came to the crease. And he refused to declare until Riz got a 50.

Needless - but good for stats.

Even in the last game, you’ve won the series, you could give others a chance up the order, but no - let’s never miss an opportunity in a dead rubber to pad our stats. Abdullah missed out and Saud was brought in too late.
There are enough examples of this.

Toxic, pathetic and weak culture
 
Should Pakistan's top 4 be going harder here against Nepal?
 
Babar Azam's got his 50 off 64 balls.

Hardly inspiring, but needs to kick on now!
 
Babar's last 2 innings were too slow to be called an innings under pressure. even when things are easy, babar is playing dot creating pressure on the batter at the other end.
 
Babar's last 2 innings were too slow to be called an innings under pressure. even when things are easy, babar is playing dot creating pressure on the batter at the other end.
He is doing the same today as well, scoring meaningless some soft runs without making any impact.
 
Babar got his 50 - which is good for the average and his ranking!
 
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Stat padding has been a real issue for almost a decade.

Terrible team culture.

Hayden mentioned how certain Pakistani batsmen don't like playing with targets in mind and prefer to go by "feel", which he doesn't realize means stat-padding and then hitting once they feel secure.
 
Code:
Overall figures
Player    Mat    Inns    NO    Runs    HS    Ave    BF    SR    100    50    0    4s    6s
H Klaasen (SA)    6    5    0    288    109    57.60    191    150.78    1    1    0    22    15
BKG Mendis (SL)    5    5    0    229    122    45.80    161    142.23    1    1    0    22    14
RG Sharma (IND)    5    5    0    311    131    62.20    233    133.47    1    1    1    33    17
AK Markram (SA)    6    5    0    265    106    53.00    214    123.83    1    2    0    32    4
Q de Kock (SA)    6    5    0    407    174    81.40    354    114.97    3    0    0    39    15
DA Warner (AUS)    5    5    0    332    163    66.40    302    109.93    2    0    0    33    13
DJ Mitchell (NZ)    5    4    1    268    130    89.33    248    108.06    1    1    0    20    11
DJ Malan (ENG)    5    5    0    220    140    44.00    206    106.79    1    0    0    29    5
S Samarawickrama (SL)    5    5    2    295    108    98.33    277    106.49    1    2    0    29    4
Rahmanullah Gurbaz (AFG)    5    5    0    224    80    44.80    221    101.35    0    2    0    24    8
DP Conway (NZ)    5    5    1    249    152*    62.25    247    100.80    1    0    1    30    4
R Ravindra (NZ)    5    5    1    290    123*    72.50    288    100.69    1    2    0    24    8
Mohammad Rizwan (PAK)    6    6    1    333    131*    66.60    342    97.36    1    1    0    32    5
Abdullah Shafique (PAK)    5    5    0    264    113    52.80    280    94.28    1    2    0    26    7
P Nissanka (SL)    5    5    1    243    77*    60.75    266    91.35    0    4    1    31    3
V Kohli (IND)    5    5    2    354    103*    118.00    391    90.53    1    3    0    29    6
Babar Azam (PAK)    6    6    0    207    74    34.50    262    79.00    0    3    0    19    2

Babar has lowest SR among players who have scored 200+. His SR is 79, 2nd lowest is Kohli with SR of 90. That's a big gap.
 
No one counts 50s as a great career milestone or counts them back when players are done.

Kind of silly to suggest Babar us "padding" his stats with useless 50s, I'm sure he'd rather have the ton.
 
The problem is how stubborn some of the Pakistan players are.

It's almost as if they can only play one way irrespective of conditions, opponents and team requirements.

Mickey Arthur should have been given complete authority to get rid of selfish players to teach them a lesson.
 
Babar playing for his average rather then team needs. Pathetic captain, pathetic selfish attitude
 
Babar's getting unnecessary hate.. he came in to bat with 2 early wickets and the team is all out with 3-4 overs left.
People must understand this is a very fragile line up
 
Babar's getting unnecessary hate.. he came in to bat with 2 early wickets and the team is all out with 3-4 overs left.
People must understand this is a very fragile line up
He came in at 20/1 from 4.3 overs.

He scored 50 off 65 balls.
 
Mickey Arthur should have been given complete authority to get rid of selfish players to teach them a lesson.
Well he has always said it's team first.

The players seem to think otherwise.
 
Gautam Gambhir

"Babar Azam hasn't played any impactful inning. Records and rankings are overrated. The real No.1 is the one who wins matches,”
 
Virender Sehwag "It wasn't a bad innings. Pakistan lost two early wickets and he held one end, helping the team to revive. But is Babar satisfied with just a 50? No. Any other No. 3 batter would want to take that 50 and convert it into a big score. Had he done that, Pakistan would have ended with 300-plus total. And that is where the difference is drawn. Great players don't let go of such opportunities. Babar Azam is using his form to the extent that he only keeps his place in the side," he said.
 
Playing against minnows in your home and scoring runs for fun, has made RizBar greedy about personal milestones there is no genuine match winner in this team
 
The shot Babar played on a free hit tells us that he can play aggressive cricket. Instead he chooses to play safe cricket ensuring he scores average runs and then gets out on a silly shot.
 
The shot Babar played on a free hit tells us that he can play aggressive cricket. Instead he chooses to play safe cricket ensuring he scores average runs and then gets out on a silly shot.
He also played a free hit full toss for a single all along the ground if I remember correctly.
 
How would you rate the opening partnership between Fakhar and Abdullah Shafique ?
Stat padding or a matter of limited talent ?
Too many dot balls being eaten up..
 
How would you rate the opening partnership between Fakhar and Abdullah Shafique ?
Stat padding or a matter of limited talent ?
Too many dot balls being eaten up..
Limited talent. Would have been dismissed earlier if tried to go big
 
Yesterday Shan Masood declared the inning when Mohammad Rizwan was batting at 171 and could have got his 200 in the next few overs but he declared the inning anyways.

Is this a message sent by the captain that statpadding is taking his last breath???
 
Yesterday Shan Masood declared the inning when Mohammad Rizwan was batting at 171 and could have got his 200 in the next few overs but he declared the inning anyways.

Is this a message sent by the captain that statpadding is taking his last breath???

A lot of sports reporters and fans criticizing the team management i.e. Rizwan should have been allowed to score his double century.
 
A lot of sports reporters and fans criticizing the team management i.e. Rizwan should have been allowed to score his double century.
Yeah it was not that great a move to declare. Shan could have asked rizwan to make it quick and he could have smashed those runs in the next 3-4 overs for sure.

But if we look at that declaration from another point of view, we can see that it was a clear indication that your personal milestone means nothing in front of the team's needs.
 
Pindi is the worst venue for tests.

For odi and t20 it's fine cause it's a high scoring affair but literally this pitch is a road for tests.

Pakistan has 3 days to take 20 wickets where even Australia can't achieve such a feat on pindi.

Once again fans are delusionally praising rizwan and saud. Remember what happened when England came to Pakistan and we gave them such a pitch?

All this Shan curated amazing pitches turned out to be nonsense. If anything rain made the game interesting and fun to watch as it was an even contest between bat and ball and that's where our top order got badly exposed.

What's the point of playing test here? To turn every one into Don Bradman and draw every series?
 
Yeah it was not that great a move to declare. Shan could have asked rizwan to make it quick and he could have smashed those runs in the next 3-4 overs for sure.

But if we look at that declaration from another point of view, we can see that it was a clear indication that your personal milestone means nothing in front of the team's needs.

Tbh this I suspect is the Jason Gillespie effect. You can also see Gillespie being very vocal and active in the dressing room. Australians are hard wired from a young age about the team being first priority over the individual.
 
Pindi is the worst venue for tests.

For odi and t20 it's fine cause it's a high scoring affair but literally this pitch is a road for tests.

Pakistan has 3 days to take 20 wickets where even Australia can't achieve such a feat on pindi.

Once again fans are delusionally praising rizwan and saud. Remember what happened when England came to Pakistan and we gave them such a pitch?

All this Shan curated amazing pitches turned out to be nonsense. If anything rain made the game interesting and fun to watch as it was an even contest between bat and ball and that's where our top order got badly exposed.

What's the point of playing test here? To turn every one into Don Bradman and draw every series?

Pindi consistently offers help for the seamers during the winter season in Nov - March but playing in August invites the risk that any rain, moisture will evaporate very quickly because of the heat, humidity and hence the pitch will become a flat road very quickly. Spin and reverse swing is the best formula to take wickets in Pakistan
 
Pakistan vs England 1st test on a flat road and batting paradise:

Shan Masood 151 runs of 177 balls

Saud Shakeel 82 runs of 177 balls.

Clear-cut stat padding done by said today. He put pressure on other batters today and the result is that score rate reduced significantly.
 
Pakistan vs England 1st test on a flat road and batting paradise:

Shan Masood 151 runs of 177 balls

Saud Shakeel 82 runs of 177 balls.

Clear-cut stat padding done by said today. He put pressure on other batters today and the result is that score rate reduced significantly.
Just trying to understand the term "stats padding"..... what is it? I mean, how Shan/Saud example is different from Root/Duckett example below?

1728474639137.png
 
Markram also started to statpad in the end and exposed the tail to get his 100 somehow but he ends up giving away his own wicket for 89.
 
Slowest fifties for Babar Azam in ODIs

86 balls vs NZ in Karachi, 2023
84 balls vs NED in Rotterdam, 2022
84 balls vs SL in Sharjah, 2017
82 balls vs SL in Abu Dhabi, 2017
81 balls vs NZ in Karachi, 2025
 
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