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Is there an unhealthy obsession by Pakistan management to play all-rounders in ODI games?

Salman Butt speaking during a TV SHOW:
“Abrar Ahmed was the standout bowler in the last match—visiting batters couldn’t read him at all. Then he was benched in the next game. Why? Everyone’s asking the same thing. It’s this obsession with playing all-rounders—your coach seems more interested in experimenting than understanding conditions. Yesterday, there was wind, rain, and no chance of dew, yet he chose to bowl first after winning the toss. Today, in bright sunshine—when dew is actually likely—he again chose to bat first. Who’s guiding him on these basic decisions? The captain? The coach?”

“Every match sees two or three changes that have no relevance to the pitch. And about fast bowling—you talk about pace, but their pacer took six wickets bowling consistently above 140 kph. Our pacers bowl three slower balls per over and average around 130. There are fitness issues, too. We’re simply not prepared to compete with world-class athletes.”

“This is a crisis. You’re not equipped to face elite-level competition. Your best chance is to play on slow, low-grip wickets like Bangladesh does. On hard or bouncy tracks, we’re exposed—and no one’s working to fix that. We talk the most about power-hitting, yet just line up our players next to someone like Quinton de Kock and compare physiques. Our players don’t look like athletes. Who’s training them? What kind of power-hitting drills are they doing? Underarm routines?”

“Your physio is running fielding drills. Your batting coach is someone who’s never scored a fifty or a hundred. Irrelevant people are doing jobs they’re not qualified for. Take Babar Azam—he’s been struggling against left-arm spin for years. His front leg gets stuck; he doesn’t sweep, doesn’t charge. Who’s guiding him? The coach with no career stats?”
 
BouncerGuy said:
Salman Butt speaking during a TV SHOW:
“Abrar Ahmed was the standout bowler in the last match—visiting batters couldn’t read him at all. Then he was benched in the next game. Why? Everyone’s asking the same thing. It’s this obsession with playing all-rounders—your coach seems more interested in experimenting than understanding conditions. Yesterday, there was wind, rain, and no chance of dew, yet he chose to bowl first after winning the toss. Today, in bright sunshine—when dew is actually likely—he again chose to bat first. Who’s guiding him on these basic decisions? The captain? The coach?”

“Every match sees two or three changes that have no relevance to the pitch. And about fast bowling—you talk about pace, but their pacer took six wickets bowling consistently above 140 kph. Our pacers bowl three slower balls per over and average around 130. There are fitness issues, too. We’re simply not prepared to compete with world-class athletes.”

“This is a crisis. You’re not equipped to face elite-level competition. Your best chance is to play on slow, low-grip wickets like Bangladesh does. On hard or bouncy tracks, we’re exposed—and no one’s working to fix that. We talk the most about power-hitting, yet just line up our players next to someone like Quinton de Kock and compare physiques. Our players don’t look like athletes. Who’s training them? What kind of power-hitting drills are they doing? Underarm routines?”

“Your physio is running fielding drills. Your batting coach is someone who’s never scored a fifty or a hundred. Irrelevant people are doing jobs they’re not qualified for. Take Babar Azam—he’s been struggling against left-arm spin for years. His front leg gets stuck; he doesn’t sweep, doesn’t charge. Who’s guiding him? The coach with no career stats?”
Click to expand...


Another point raised by Atiq... What is hesson thinking??

https://twitter.com/x/status/1986689707917431077
 
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Unfair on Nawaz and Faheem. The so called specialists Talat and Naseem can be thrown out instead.
 
Both the T20 & ODI sides are filled to the brim with fake allrounders. No one would have any issue if they were genuine allrounders but Shaheen type allrounders have totally ruined Pakistan cricket and the PCB management is to blame.
 
Kianig89 said:
Saim and Nawaz fall in that genuine category, the rest are exaggeration and fans hyperbole
Click to expand...
That’s not true. Faheem is a genuine all rounder. Talat needs runs for sure. Pak need to decide very quickly what to fix first.
A) the bowling ie bowl to a plan and not just throw the ball hope for the best
B) all rounders. Can they contribute with both bat and ball
C) the batting can they play straight when the ball is seaming and gripping and then go for big shots.

At the moment all three are lacking and this lack of trust and ability makes them pick all rounders. Infact Pak are very much like new Zealand 20 years ago.
 
Pakistan does not have any true genuine all rounder. These are bits and pieces kind of players, under pressure they will not perform.
 
Justcrazy said:
Pakistan does not have any true genuine all rounder. These are bits and pieces kind of players, under pressure they will not perform.
Click to expand...
That’s not true. Nawaz and Faheem have recently been contributing. Saim and agha have been fantastic with bat and ball. These guys need backing.

Talat for sure needs runs. Jamal too needs to perform. But they can’t perform sitting in the benches.

Pak have a long way to go for sure but they are on the right track.

It’s the fast bowling that’s a real worry. They are not world class right now so it magnifies all the other weak links.
 
Abid Z said:
That’s not true. Nawaz and Faheem have recently been contributing. Saim and agha have been fantastic with bat and ball. These guys need backing.

Talat for sure needs runs. Jamal too needs to perform. But they can’t perform sitting in the benches.

Pak have a long way to go for sure but they are on the right track.

It’s the fast bowling that’s a real worry. They are not world class right now so it magnifies all the other weak links.
Click to expand...
Agha...?
 
It’s fine.
The fast bowling is not up to standards. Nadeem has been very poor and Haris shouldn’t be anywhere near team.

Give chances to some proper bowlers like Salman Mirza, Abbas Afridi ect.
 
In modern day white-ball you need a deep batting order and atleast 6 bowling options. There is nothing wrong with the approach, but obviously the skill-level of the players is a different story.
 
Abid Z said:
That’s not true. Nawaz and Faheem have recently been contributing. Saim and agha have been fantastic with bat and ball. These guys need backing.

Talat for sure needs runs. Jamal too needs to perform. But they can’t perform sitting in the benches.

Pak have a long way to go for sure but they are on the right track.

It’s the fast bowling that’s a real worry. They are not world class right now so it magnifies all the other weak links.
Click to expand...
Brother genuine allrounders are rare in the world.

Faheem needs to do more .
In OD after 28 innings he averaged 14 with the bat, in bowling he averaged 46. This is not a genuine all rounder. He has no strong suit.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
In modern day white-ball you need a deep batting order and atleast 6 bowling options. There is nothing wrong with the approach, but obviously the skill-level of the players is a different story.
Click to expand...

You cannot artificially create such depth , you need proper players .

You cannot play saim , Aga , Faheem and ask 30 overs from them , and have batting till 9 , that is not going to work.
 
Justcrazy said:
You cannot artificially create such depth , you need proper players .

You cannot play saim , Aga , Faheem and ask 30 overs from them , and have batting till 9 , that is not going to work.
Click to expand...
You are talking about players and a process.
The players are lacking For now. They will develop. They are doing ok for now agha Faheem Saim have all contributed

But All bowlers must contribute with bat. Even broad has a hundred , even Cummins can bat. There are examples through Pakistan history when bowlers had to bat and save a match. Right now we don’t have that so a few all rounders is a cushion.
 
Abid Z said:
That’s not true. Faheem is a genuine all rounder. Talat needs runs for sure. Pak need to decide very quickly what to fix first.
A) the bowling ie bowl to a plan and not just throw the ball hope for the best
B) all rounders. Can they contribute with both bat and ball
C) the batting can they play straight when the ball is seaming and gripping and then go for big shots.

At the moment all three are lacking and this lack of trust and ability makes them pick all rounders. Infact Pak are very much like new Zealand 20 years ago.
Click to expand...
But NZ of 20 yrs ago also had specialist roles.

Like Astle, McMillan were there to bat. And Dion Nash, Vettori to bowl 10 ovs each.

They were not so good at their main jobs as other intl peers and to help team would contribute in their secondary skills. But atleast they knew what their main job was and that if they continuously were bad at it they would be dropped irrespective of secondary skill contri

Here with guys like Talat, Khusdil god knows what they are there in team to do. Sometimes by mistake they do something useful with bat or ball and they buy extension for themselves
 
NZ of 20 yrs ago

McCullum
Vincent
Fleming
McMillan
Styris
Cairns
Oram
Vettori
N.McCullum
Bond
Tuffey
==========
This team is definitely better than current Pakistan ODI team
 
pratiktc said:
But NZ of 20 yrs ago also had specialist roles.

Like Astle, McMillan were there to bat. And Dion Nash, Vettori to bowl 10 ovs each.

They were not so good at their main jobs as other intl peers and to help team would contribute in their secondary skills. But atleast they knew what their main job was and that if they continuously were bad at it they would be dropped irrespective of secondary skill contri

Here with guys like Talat, Khusdil god knows what they are there in team to do. Sometimes by mistake they do something useful with bat or ball and they buy extension for themselves
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Exactly. It’s an approach that can work and been tried before. Yes have specialists in roles and an all rounder or two who can command a place either as a batter or bowler. This would be ideal.

We have none of that. We don’t have bowlers who can command a place in any world 11. And we neither have batters who can walk into any team.

So at least have a middle order that can contribute with either so we can get to par scores.
To get to par scores you need contributions from the lower order. That’s a dependable insurance strategy and it’s worked for New Zealand South Africa in the past.
Of course if Pak had at least two out and out wicket taking fast bowlers they would need fewer all rounders. But they don’t.

Of the all rounders Pak have most are spinners which is fine in subcontinent.

the seam all rounders Pak have Faheem, Talat, amir Jamal well they need work. This is a specialist position. We have not been able to fill since Razzaq. Having both Talat and Faheem is unnecessary
 
Kianig89 said:
NZ of 20 yrs ago

McCullum
Vincent
Fleming
McMillan
Styris
Cairns
Oram
Vettori
N.McCullum
Bond
Tuffey
==========
This team is definitely better than current Pakistan ODI team
Click to expand...
Thank God you didn’t name Italy’s 2002 Football team and claim it’s better than the current Pakistan cricket team!
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
In modern day white-ball you need a deep batting order and atleast 6 bowling options. There is nothing wrong with the approach, but obviously the skill-level of the players is a different story.
Click to expand...
It is good to have options but we have 7-8 bowling options so much so that in many cases Faheen or Nawaz don't bowl. Rather than creating depth this makes the tail come in too early.

In the last ODI match we could have dropped still retained flexibility but dropped Faheem( or Haris Rauf) and Hussain Talat for batters.

It's a similar story in T20 ( arguably worse at times).
 
The inconsistencies in selection has basically not allowed any allrounder to get hold of his position in Pakistan team, everybody has been in and out.

Amir Jamal, Abbas Afridi, Khusdil Shah, M.Nawaz, Faheem, Agha & Saim
 
DeadlyVenom said:
It is good to have options but we have 7-8 bowling options so much so that in many cases Faheen or Nawaz don't bowl. Rather than creating depth this makes the tail come in too early.

In the last ODI match we could have dropped still retained flexibility but dropped Faheem( or Haris Rauf) and Hussain Talat for batters.

It's a similar story in T20 ( arguably worse at times).
Click to expand...
Because you select your 11 before the toss. What if the spinners had to bowl 2nd under dew?

If bowling first if you have Rauf on a bad day spraying it around you need control from spinners and people like Faheem. Say what you want about medium pace trundlers but they are not as expensive as spray gun Harris. Wasim is wayward too. So we are talking about control v wickets. It’s an option. I’m not saying it’s good long term but there we are.

The 4 main batters need to score and score big. That’s another problem.
 
Quality allrounders are play a major role in limited over cricket. They gives perfect balance to team combination :kp
 
Abid Z said:
Because you select your 11 before the toss. What if the spinners had to bowl 2nd under dew?

If bowling first if you have Rauf on a bad day spraying it around you need control from spinners and people like Faheem. Say what you want about medium pace trundlers but they are not as expensive as spray gun Harris. Wasim is wayward too. So we are talking about control v wickets. It’s an option. I’m not saying it’s good long term but there we are.

The 4 main batters need to score and score big. That’s another problem.
Click to expand...
Bowlers should be able to cope with some condition changes. You can't pick 8 options because you are scared of an off day.
 
RyanRyan10 said:
Faheem Ashraf, Mohammad Nawaz and Asif Afridi

Pakistan have 3 top class limited formats allrounders
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Faheem Ashraf with 14 and 13 batting average & bowling AVG of 46 and 24 in ODI and T20 respectively.

Mohammad Nawaz with 20 and 18 batting average & bowling AVG of 35 and 23 in ODI and T20 cricket.

These are not stats of real allrounder but Fraud.

And who is Abbas Afridi ? Lol

:klopp :kp
 
DeadlyVenom said:
Bowlers should be able to cope with some condition changes. You can't pick 8 options because you are scared of an off day.
Click to expand...
Well I count 5 all rounders currently. Saim, Nawaz , agha, Talat, Faheem. So that’s a mix of those who are mainly bowlers or batters. It’s not over doing it.

Look back at score cards of late 1990’s early 2000’s. Because you had genuine strike bowlers you could have azhar, aqib and Razzaq alongside Afridi so it wasn’t always that different. Of course they were swapped around but there was competition for the seaming all rounder spot. Naturally Razzaq rose above all others because he could do both but he never scored over 50 for about 2 years in odi’s nor did he get more than a couple of wickets. He was very much a work in progress till the 1999 World Cup and very much supplementary to fast bowlers who could afford to be wayward as the rest could maintain control.

Faheem is exactly on par as record shows. Talat is exactly like azhar. The guy that was storming the records in uk early 2000 was Yasir Arafat couldn’t get a game. Azhar and Razzaq were the preferred choices. One more a batter the other more an all rounder.

The situation is not so different but we are lacking wicket taking bowlers. I think that will change soon though. I think Abbas Afridi looks good and Wasim Jnr too.
 
Devadwal said:
Faheem Ashraf with 14 and 13 batting average & bowling AVG of 46 and 24 in ODI and T20 respectively.

Mohammad Nawaz with 20 and 18 batting average & bowling AVG of 35 and 23 in ODI and T20 cricket.

These are not stats of real allrounder but Fraud.

And who is Abbas Afridi ? Lol

:klopp :kp
Click to expand...
Faheem was the PoS against SA in t20i series

Abbas Afridi won the PoT in the Hong Kong 6s. Was the PoM in both the Semifinals and the finals.
 
RyanRyan10 said:
Faheem was the PoS against SA in t20i series

Abbas Afridi won the PoT in the Hong Kong 6s. Was the PoM in both the Semifinals and the finals.
Click to expand...
Who care about hongkong six. Talk about real cricket here.

I showed you Faheem's stats and these stats are not for an all-rounder but Fraud allrounder.

:kp
 
Devadwal said:
Who care about hongkong six. Talk about real cricket here.

I showed you Faheem's stats and these stats are not for an all-rounder but Fraud allrounder.

:kp
Click to expand...
I think he’s being factual Faheem has been doing ok recently. He’s not world class by any means. Averages are not the only yard stick. You also look at performance , the tight lines a bowler bowls, the sticking it out in tough situations all those qualitative issue that can’t be captured by stats.
 
Abid Z said:
I think he’s being factual Faheem has been doing ok recently. He’s not world class by any means. Averages are not the only yard stick. You also look at performance , the tight lines a bowler bowls, the sticking it out in tough situations all those qualitative issue that can’t be captured by stats.
Click to expand...
He is performing alright recently but let's see he can it do for longer period of time. :kp
 
At present Saim and Agha are in proper all rounder category, rest of the lot are fake allrounder, bogus allrounder or TTF allrounder
 
Devadwal said:
He is performing alright recently but let's see he can it do for longer period of time. :kp
Click to expand...
Well that’s true of any cricketer. But Pak are doing two things. They are developing a batting all rounder Talat they are trying to develop SSA batting.

So actually I see competition between SSA Faheem and Talat but right now Faheem is making himself useful so is winning that little spot. How long for depends. I think for once Pak are not thinking short term and have the England series in mind where Faheem will actually be quite useful. (Saves going back to Abbas for the middle overs).
 
I think one or two allrounders are ok to give balance to the side. Nawaz and Fahim are fine and they have saved our skin a few times, but picking eg Talat when you know 95% of the time he won’t bowl is an exercise in futility.

And even is Saim is decent with the ball, his batting is so critical to this team that there is no reason to give him such a prominent role in the bowling.
 
Abid Z said:
You are talking about players and a process.
The players are lacking For now. They will develop. They are doing ok for now agha Faheem Saim have all contributed

But All bowlers must contribute with bat. Even broad has a hundred , even Cummins can bat. There are examples through Pakistan history when bowlers had to bat and save a match. Right now we don’t have that so a few all rounders is a cushion.
Click to expand...
So by that logic why the batters must not contribute with the ball?
 
One of the best Pakistan odi sides had Razzaq , Azhar Mahmood , Afridi as allrounders not to mention Wasim Akram who could be very capable with the bat himself.

There will always be a case for allrounders in cricket. The problem is skill level.
 
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