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Is Virat Kohli on the brink of ATG status in Tests subject to his litmus test in England?

Abdullah719 said:
No need for the sweeping generalisations and rude comments, this thread was started by a Pakistan fan too :shh

There is a reason for doubting his ability to score in England and that showed in the way he played initially during his innings. He struggles against the moving ball and the Dukes has always been a challenge for him.

However, he's taken full advantage of the chances given to him to turn it around and play a stunning knock.
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Both die hard Kohli fans and haters are hardly the sharpest tools in the box and debate tends to step a couple of levels down towards the facebook comments section. But objectively speaking he hasn't been perfect at all nor is he someone who can never be criticised like many would have you believe but at the same time he is isn't appreciated for what he is because many either overly rate him or under rate him, but if you look beyond it all he's a batsman who had struggled to find his feet early on at the highest level and would then turn things around thanks to his immense hard work / dedication; this knock in a way was a great reflection of his career, in this moment he's the worlds best and it's only a matter of time before he cements his status as an all time great.
 
Bubby said:
you think or u wish
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I think means, it is my gut feeling. It doesn't mean I am against Kohli or want him to fail. Love the batter. But I think there is just so much a human body can take, he has been playing consistently for 10 years now at such a high intensity, sooner or later, there comes a time when the body starts to betray the person, regardless of how fit one is. Over 200 Odi's and 60 Tests plus crazy hectic schedule of India plus physically draining trials of IPL(almost 2 month tournament) and mental challenges of leading a cricket crazy nation like India is bound to take a toll on the guy.
 
Hasan123 said:
Lol only deluded,bitter ,and biased Pakistan fans didn't think he would score in England.
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As a fellow Pakistani fan it's breath of fresh air to hear someone who not only supports his side but acknowledges cricketing excellence. Kohli has a huge fan base in Pakistan but I feel we;re one of the few who enjoys his batsmanship and seeing his succeeding at what he does best, which is a shame really.

No suprise that the likes of [MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION] and his other haters have gone hiding. If he had failed, I'm sure they would have come out of their caves.
 
Abdullah719 said:
Kohli isn't a God, he is not perfect. That's all I am saying. The way he batted for the first hour or so, it looked like it might be a repeat of 2014. But people who were expecting him to fail didn't take his mental toughness into account, there is no one in the world who is better.

Regarding swing, it's usually the most extravagant in England due to the combination of the overhead conditions and the Dukes' ball, you rarely find that anywhere else in the world.

He can be a legend without performing in England even, I wasn't referring to that. I wasn't even talking about Kohli being great or not, my point was that people are allowed to have different opinions and they can be proven wrong in future, it doesn't mean that they are idiots and only bias can make them come to that conclusion. If [MENTION=143023]SarfiBabarHaris[/MENTION] was active these days, he would have acknowledged the quality of this knock.
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God hasnt been coming out to bat you see. Hence no one is perfect.But seems here the yardstick to judge Indians is far stricter than it is for other players. The reason being bias or in some case bitterness and rarely hatred. H
 
shaz619 said:
Both die hard Kohli fans and haters are hardly the sharpest tools in the box and debate tends to step a couple of levels down towards the facebook comments section. But objectively speaking he hasn't been perfect at all nor is he someone who can never be criticised like many would have you believe but at the same time he is isn't appreciated for what he is because many either overly rate him or under rate him, but if you look beyond it all he's a batsman who had struggled to find his feet early on at the highest level and would then turn things around thanks to his immense hard work / dedication; this knock in a way was a great reflection of his career, in this moment he's the worlds best and it's only a matter of time before he cements his status as an all time great.
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With all due respect I remember during those past few years as a spectator on this forum, that you were one of the staunchest of the anti-Kohli brigade, so I find it a bit ironic that you feel the need to have a dig at your former fellow Kohli haters.
 
shaz619 said:
Both die hard Kohli fans and haters are hardly the sharpest tools in the box and debate tends to step a couple of levels down towards the facebook comments section. But objectively speaking he hasn't been perfect at all nor is he someone who can never be criticised like many would have you believe but at the same time he is isn't appreciated for what he is because many either overly rate him or under rate him, but if you look beyond it all he's a batsman who had struggled to find his feet early on at the highest level and would then turn things around thanks to his immense hard work / dedication; this knock in a way was a great reflection of his career, in this moment he's the worlds best and it's only a matter of time before he cements his status as an all time great.
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His showed his vulnerability early on with wickets falling around him. His partnership with no.10 and no.11 showed the other side of Kohli. 92 runs tail made 6 out of it. He was absolutely dominating during that phase. Many of these scratchy innings are scratchy right through the innings. This is not one of those innings.
 
cricketjoshila said:
God hasnt been coming out to bat you see. Hence no one is perfect.But seems here the yardstick to judge Indians is far stricter than it is for other players. The reason being bias or in some case bitterness and rarely hatred. H
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I'm a Pakistan fan and although I don't always agree with your far right opinions on some issues - I'm with you on this one.

Not only with Kohli but the yardstick for players such as Faheem and Hardik Pandya are very different despite the former having achieved a lot more in his short career thus far.
 
Like I've said for years and years. He will put this silly argument away in style.

Anyone that doesn't see his class is blind and today's innings says it all.
 
He changed it in first chance only, lol. Should have failed a bit more to keep up the fun.
 
He is carrying India’s Test batting and part-carrying India’s LOI batting. The rest of the batters in this Indian batting line-up are poor and will get exposed further in this test series
 
As a Pakistan fan, I want the Indian team to fail but it is impossible to downplay Kohlis brilliance. He is a one man army standing up to the English bowlers wheras his compatriots are failing.

Let’s hope he gets out for a duck in the next innings though!
 
as-95 said:
As a Pakistan fan, I want the Indian team to fail but it is impossible to downplay Kohlis brilliance. He is a one man army standing up to the English bowlers wheras his compatriots are failing.

Let’s hope he gets out for a duck in the next innings though!
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Why would Pakistani fans want the Indian team to fail? How does that help Pakistan team? :)
 
ATG (GOAT level) in ODIs and on his way to be an ATG in Tests too. Even a lot of Kohli haters will find it hard to argue against that.
 
topspin said:
As a fellow Pakistani fan it's breath of fresh air to hear someone who not only supports his side but acknowledges cricketing excellence. Kohli has a huge fan base in Pakistan but I feel we;re one of the few who enjoys his batsmanship and seeing his succeeding at what he does best, which is a shame really.

No suprise that the likes of [MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION] and his other haters have gone hiding. If he had failed, I'm sure they would have come out of their caves.
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Thank you brother. I don't care what the players nationally is, if they perform I will appreciate them. I said 2 years ago Kohli would score in England.

I'm not on this forum to make friends. On here to discuss cricket and give my honest opinion.
 
The best of his time. By scoring in England in these conditions and getting on top of Anderson, he has answered every question thrown at him now.
 
If he can take India home tomorrow then safe to say he's over his England struggles!
 
hadi123 said:
If he can take India home tomorrow then safe to say he's over his England struggles!
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That's a bit too much to ask don't you think? It's like saying if Wasim got Pak wins in Aus he is ATG.

Only thing Kohli can do is score runs..not every innings though.
 
Hasan123 said:
Thank you brother. I don't care what the players nationally is, if they perform I will appreciate them. I said 2 years ago Kohli would score in England.

I'm not on this forum to make friends. On here to discuss cricket and give my honest opinion.
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Yep you were spot on, you could see even as early as England's last tour to India that he had made the adjustments required to adapt to the swinging ball. He's played so well in this test that as a lover of the game and thus good cricket, I would want to see him on the winning side.
 
He’s shown everyone why he’s regarded as one of the best.

Just sit back with the popcorn and watch the glory reel in tomorrow.
 
Winning it tomorrow would put the exclamation point on a wonderful reply to his critics.
 
topspin said:
With all due respect I remember during those past few years as a spectator on this forum, that you were one of the staunchest of the anti-Kohli brigade, so I find it a bit ironic that you feel the need to have a dig at your former fellow Kohli haters.
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I criticised him for sure, that don't make me a hater like most, these days you can only say 100% positive things about someones favourite player from the opposide side of an argument to be considered objective lmao If I hated him I'd still be criticising even when credit is earned which many are still doing and the OP was written prior to this knock by me as well. And like I said both die hard fans and haters are as bad as each other.
 
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jnaveen1980 said:
His showed his vulnerability early on with wickets falling around him. His partnership with no.10 and no.11 showed the other side of Kohli. 92 runs tail made 6 out of it. He was absolutely dominating during that phase. Many of these scratchy innings are scratchy right through the innings. This is not one of those innings.
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To be honest scratchy or not it is besides the point as long as you do the job for your team, asthetics are overly rated. In that phase of his innings how many batsman in the world today would find it easy vs a rampaging English seam attack ? We've had a dry summer and yes it's not a green wicket but in England the first session of the innings is always tough and wickets were falling around him to. He's a naturally attacking player and isn't the best technically when dealing with lateral movement, but what he displayed was a lot of toughness to stay at the crease despite those flaws and cashed in towards the end.
 
Another good innings. Kohli haters can't use the "he's rubbish in England" excuse anymore.
 
Another excellent knock today. Unlucky to miss out on a hundred.
 
Kohli has already spanked 337 runs at the halfway mark.

To give you some perspective of his achievement. This is already the 12th highest total score made by an Indian batsman in a single series against England in England. The top Indian batsman is "The Wall" Dravid with 602 runs in a 4 match series.

123.jpg

With 5 possible innings left, Can Kohli overtake Dravid?
 
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Usman Chadda said:
This guy is literally carrying India right now. Shades of Tendulkar in the 90s.
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Yea, Tendulkar had smacked 428 runs in 5 innings in England in 1996. You can check the below link to see what the others did in that same series. This was I think the series when Dravid and Ganguly made their debut and henceforth reduce that burden on Tendulkar.

https://bit.ly/2wefKWj
 
hadi123 said:
Another good innings. Kohli haters can't use the "he's rubbish in England" excuse anymore.
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I notice [MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION] hasn't been online of late. :91:

With Amla being below par as well, I hope he's alright.
 
Every tom dick and harry has scored in England. So it was foolish to think Kohli won't score there. Having said that he scored his runs under toughest circumstances. Conditions, quality of bowling, pressure situation everything was stacked against him. He stood up being the highest scorer in 3 out of 5 the innings. He showed lot of character.
 
Oligochaetes said:
Kohli has already spanked 337 runs at the halfway mark.

To give you some perspective of his achievement. This is already the 12th highest total score made by an Indian batsman in a single series against England in England. The top Indian batsman is "The Wall" Dravid with 602 runs in a 4 match series.

View attachment 83402

With 5 possible innings left, Can Kohli overtake Dravid?
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What is his overall avg in england?
 
There is a good chance for Kohli to even beat Dravid's record given the start he's got.
 
Comparing his runs to 96 or 2002 is a bit of an insult tbh. Much flatter pitches in those series.

How many Asian batsmen have been the top scorer (from either team) in a 3(+) test match series in South Africa, Australia or England?
 
Virat has already shut his critics with his exploits after the first 3 Tests. He has looked compact and has played brilliantly against swinging ball. I don't think anyone will question his credentials as a world class player anymore.
 
giri26 said:
Virat has already shut his critics with his exploits after the first 3 Tests. He has looked compact and has played brilliantly against swinging ball. I don't think anyone will question his credentials as a world class player anymore.
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Virat was a world class player back in 2012. He is already an ATG of the game and a potential GOAT contender (all formats combined). All he needs is a match winning century in elimination rounds of World Cup.
 
Whatever the averages I think he has made some seriously tough runs and proven he can play in English conditions. England certainly won't be a black mark against him.

Should he get another score or two and India somehow get back into this series (I'd say that even if thy lose the series, if they go into that last test with a series draw still possible they can hold their head high) then his reputation won't just be stable, he will definitely be another step up that atg ladder.
 
He can score 5 double tons from here onwards but if India can't win matches then all of these runs are meaningless in the end. At the moment, he is the only world-class test batsman that India have. Vijay and Pujara are past their best, and the others were never world-class to begin with. Kohli needs to make sure his runs win his team games, and not just inflate his average.
 
From the evidence of the last few tests, it looks like Kohli is better in England than in South Africa or Australia.
 
AssassinatedDevil said:
He can score 5 double tons from here onwards but if India can't win matches then all of these runs are meaningless in the end. At the moment, he is the only world-class test batsman that India have. Vijay and Pujara are past their best, and the others were never world-class to begin with. Kohli needs to make sure his runs win his team games, and not just inflate his average.
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I don't understand this logic. Cricket is a team game, more so in the test format. A batsman can't really win test matches on his own, in limited overs they can. In tests no matter how well you bat your bowlers need to take 20 wickets. Or are you expecting him to take wickets as well. How was his brilliant century in the first test meaningless because India narrowly lost the game? Given how difficult the conditions were, it was as good an innings as you'd see.
 
Varun said:
From the evidence of the last few tests, it looks like Kohli is better in England than in South Africa or Australia.
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I don't think so. Kohli has improved immensely since the last time he played in England but he loves the Australian conditions. I think he loves to bat in Australia more than in India. In Australia there's not much lateral movement, but there's extra pace and bounce. Kohli doesn't mind it. Australian pitches are the best in the world to bat on if you can play extra pace off the wicket, better than turners in India. South Africa is a mix of Australia and England.
 
AssassinatedDevil said:
He can score 5 double tons from here onwards but if India can't win matches then all of these runs are meaningless in the end. At the moment, he is the only world-class test batsman that India have. Vijay and Pujara are past their best, and the others were never world-class to begin with. Kohli needs to make sure his runs win his team games, and not just inflate his average.
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Ok, I really need to understand this post. When a batsman scores runs where does the runs go? To his own score or the team score? I find this post completely baffling, unless you are suggesting Kohli should score 400 alone every innings in such swinging conditions and then take 10 wickets each innings to make sure his team wins. Because otherwise this post makes zero sense
 
AssassinatedDevil said:
He can score 5 double tons from here onwards but if India can't win matches then all of these runs are meaningless in the end. At the moment, he is the only world-class test batsman that India have. Vijay and Pujara are past their best, and the others were never world-class to begin with. Kohli needs to make sure his runs win his team games, and not just inflate his average.
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You do realize that a batsman can't win test matches, right? Whether India wins or not doesn't affect Kohli's performance in any way.
 
Joseph Gomes said:
You do realize that a batsman can't win test matches, right? Whether India wins or not doesn't affect Kohli's performance in any way.
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Choro, yaar. These are the same fans who would rate Inzamam higher than Sachin since 26 of his 25 centuries came in wins.
 
Indiafan said:
Ok, I really need to understand this post. When a batsman scores runs where does the runs go? To his own score or the team score? I find this post completely baffling, unless you are suggesting Kohli should score 400 alone every innings in such swinging conditions and then take 10 wickets each innings to make sure his team wins. Because otherwise this post makes zero sense
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Being a PP veteran I am sure you would remember that the similar logic was used back in the day to discredit Tendulkar's runs.
It fell into disuse after he retired due to the absence of any other contemporary Indian legend but now that Virat has made his way towards the ATG podium, the same old excuse of 'whats the point of scoring when your team loses' has miraculously made a comeback.

Expect it to remain in highlight in the future as Virat cements his legacy further.
 
TM Riddle said:
Being a PP veteran I am sure you would remember that the similar logic was used back in the day to discredit Tendulkar's runs.
It fell into disuse after he retired due to the absence of any other contemporary Indian legend but now that Virat has made his way towards the ATG podium, the same old excuse of 'whats the point of scoring when your team loses' has miraculously made a comeback.

Expect it to remain in highlight in the future as Virat cements his legacy further.
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Pretty sure India losing because of Tendulkar is a meme, not a serious topic. Only time I remember India losing because of Tendulkar was Asia Cup 2012.
 
Joseph Gomes said:
Pretty sure India losing because of Tendulkar is a meme, not a serious topic. Only time I remember India losing because of Tendulkar was Asia Cup 2012.
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You have no idea how seriously people used to pursue the topic when he was scoring like a champion.
It was common to see this logic thrown in once the other guy had exhausted all his arguments.
 
Best batsman in the world and environment friendly. Backed him from the start, good work Chiku.

Ever since I saw him score that 47 in IPL when he was 21 chasing an insane target knew he had some extra talent.
 
Players with far less skill and talent have scored runs in England, it was only a matter of time before he set that record straight.

Although, I'm not a fan of using one country as a stick to beat any player. Almost every bowler/batsman has one or few countries where they don't perform to their best but that doesn't take away from their quality. This place has a habit of using arbitrary criteria to discredit players, I remember when he was piling on runs in SA in January in LOIs. Someone took a sample size of him not scoring enough in WC Knockouts which I thought was just absurd.

Take aside the nationality and enjoy when players of Kohli's quality are playing at peak of their powers.
 
One of the all time greats for sure right now in my view after these stellar performances in England
 
Kohli confirmed as a all time great.

His conversion rate after reaching 50 is only behind Bradman, and since he made his first test century in Adelaide he has never had 3 successive 50s without converting one to a three-figure score.

He is an elite batsman and easily among the all-time greats of the game, there is no doubt now. Yes, I don't like him or his attitude but you have to give credit to a player who is the only elite batsmen in his team and that too captain.

He has rescued India a number of time and if India can win this series coming from 2-0 down he will be a legend.

Just have a look at these stats, he is greater than Tendulkar.

http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/Batting/BattingConvRate.asp?Stat=1
 
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He’s batted brilliantly so far in this series but needs to carry on . If he finishes with an average below 40 in England then no he won’t be .
 
Until he goes through a bad patch and averages 30 somewhere and experts here will call him an FTB or other such juvenile term.
 
KingKhanWC said:
He’s batted brilliantly so far in this series but needs to carry on . If he finishes with an average below 40 in England then no he won’t be .
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You trolling or what? Ponting averages 25 in India, is he not an ATG? Lara averages 33 in India and 36 in NZ. Viv averages tail enderish 19 in NZ.
 
Virat Kohli overtakes Steve Smith, Steve Waugh to reach 3rd in list of skippers with most Test tons

Ahead of India's ongoing tour of England, the main talking point was if and how captain Virat Kohli would be able to banish the ghosts of 2014 and deal with the English bowling that he could only score 137 runs off in 10 innings.

However, if the Test series so far is anything to go by, it is certain that Kohli has risen to the challenge.He scored a fighting ton in the team's first match of the series at Edgbaston, recording a magnificent 149 as the rest of the batting order folded around him in what will certainly rank as one of the most memorable knocks in Kohli's career. At Lord's, he was unable to cross the half-century mark but came back in Nottingham in fine fashion and slammed 97 and 103 in the two innings, asserting his credentials as the best batsman in the world.

His century in the second innings saw him reach another massive landmark as he moved ahead of a number of iconic names in the sport to reach third spot in the players to have most centuries in Test cricket as captain. Kohli's effort at Trent Bridge saw him reach 16 tons as skipper, overtaking the likes of Alan Border, Steve Smith and Steve Waugh - all of them with 15 each.

Leading the list is none other than former South Africa captain and opening batsman Graeme Smith, who has 25 centuries to his name as skipper and a total of 27 in his career. He is followed by the legendary Ricky Ponting, who captained Australia from 2004 to 2010 and recorded 19 centuries in all as captain of the Australian team.

Kohli was appointed captain of the Indian team in 2014 and since then, he has captained them in 38 matches. He has scored 3896 runs in the process at an average of 66.03, which features 16 tons and eight half centuries.

https://www.timesnownews.com/sports...st-of-skippers-with-most-test-hundreds/272672
 
Virat has 440 runs in this series with 2 tests to go. :vk2. Considering the conditions, this is phenomenal.

Second best is Bairstow with 206 runs. Pandya of all people is the second highest Indian scorer with 160 runs.
 
Oligochaetes said:
Virat has 440 runs in this series with 2 tests to go. :vk2. Considering the conditions, this is phenomenal.

Second best is Bairstow with 206 runs. Pandya of all people is the second highest Indian scorer with 160 runs.
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He's completely outclassed Root on his home turf.
 
If all his catches were taken, he would be averaging 15 on this tour.
 
kingusama92 said:
He's completely outclassed Root on his home turf.
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Root was outclassed in India as well where Virat scored loads of runs. Root has fallen away over the last couple of years in Tests. He struggled to convert starts in Australia earlier this year and is struggling to do so at home as well.
 
Joseph Gomes said:
You trolling or what? Ponting averages 25 in India, is he not an ATG? Lara averages 33 in India and 36 in NZ. Viv averages tail enderish 19 in NZ.
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Viv wasnt playing on flat tracks against average bowlers .

England produces the most balanced conditions for bat & ball . Ok take another 5 off . If Kohli averages less than 35 in England in his whole career hes not an ATG test bat imo. Happy now ?
 
KingKhanWC said:
Viv wasnt playing on flat tracks against average bowlers .

England produces the most balanced conditions for bat & ball . Ok take another 5 off . If Kohli averages less than 35 in England in his whole career hes not an ATG test bat imo. Happy now ?
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Viv scored plenty on flat tracks against average bowlers. His highest averages are against England and India who were hardly the strongest attacks of his time...didn't have to face the strongest attack of his time because he was playing in it.

Also the team wasn't as dependent on Viv as it's on Kohli. I can think of 3 series right of the bat where WI won away from home despite Viv being rubbish, Kohli doesn't have that luxury. Kohli is scoring runs under way more pressure than Viv.
 
Dead Ball said:
Viv scored plenty on flat tracks against average bowlers. His highest averages are against England and India who were hardly the strongest attacks of his time...didn't have to face the strongest attack of his time because he was playing in it.

Also the team wasn't as dependent on Viv as it's on Kohli. I can think of 3 series right of the bat where WI won away from home despite Viv being rubbish, Kohli doesn't have that luxury. Kohli is scoring runs under way more pressure than Viv.
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Good post. But we can only compare after kohli's career is done. If he declines like how Amla and cook have declined then in not sure if we can rate him that highly.
 
KingKhanWC said:
Viv wasnt playing on flat tracks against average bowlers .

England produces the most balanced conditions for bat & ball . Ok take another 5 off . If Kohli averages less than 35 in England in his whole career hes not an ATG test bat imo. Happy now ?
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Viv started off well was averaging over 60 in the first part of his career he steadily declined Kohli is steadily improving throughout his career and might become the first great batsman in history to average over 50 in tests and ODIs.
 
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