What's new

Is Younis Khan an all-time great in Test cricket?

Mistaken by Chanderpaul...He too avgs below 40 in three countries.
 
Chanderpaul is below Sanga and YK.

Everyone rates Sanga ahead of Chanderpaul and rightfully so.

I agree with you. But still Sanga case is a bit debatable. Considering both formats and WC, most would rate him an ATG.Some may not and its pretty fine with that.I don't see any problem with that. It's a bit subjective.
 
In Tests alone I don't think he's too far off. YK has played some gutsy knocks under pressure especially in the fourth innings (averages 60+). But I think what loses him points is his LOI record. IMO to be a modern-day ATG you need to also be fairly decent in LOIs as well.
 
And a batting average of less than 40 in as many as 3 test playing nations.

This more/less than 40 ave stuff is absolute nonsense. As if some 30 odd more runs in India, 40 something more runs in WI and some 60 odd more runs in SA defines a 12.5k run Test career. That sort of thinking is laughable at best. Averages 60+ in 7 of the 11 places btw. Not bad for a no3 Test bat (that too keeping wickets in a third of em) during a career spanning 15+ years eh.
 
This more/less than 40 ave stuff is absolute nonsense. As if some 30 odd more runs in India, 40 something more runs in WI and some 60 odd more runs in SA defines a 12.5k run Test career. That sort of thinking is laughable at best. Averages 60+ in 7 of the 11 places btw. Not bad for a no3 Test bat (that too keeping wickets in a third of em) during a career spanning 15+ years eh.

Depends.. If the avg goes below because of lack of form or a bit low series or if the series comes during retirement then its fine. A failure like Graeme Smith against India or Dravid vs SA or Ponting vs Ind or any such failures due to technical issues or highly bad form throughout a series shouldn't be ignored. SA is one of toughest conditions to bat. Sanga's failure seems to be justifiable .His failure vs WI doesn't make much sense to me. And his failure vs India makes sense as he wasn't good facing Ashwin or kumble in Indian conditions.
 
He's scored the most runs in Test history for Pakistan, of course he's a great when it comes to Test cricket.
 
Depends.. If the avg goes below because of lack of form or a bit low series or if the series comes during retirement then its fine. A failure like Graeme Smith against India or Dravid vs SA or Ponting vs Ind or any such failures due to technical issues or highly bad form throughout a series shouldn't be ignored. SA is one of toughest conditions to bat. Sanga's failure seems to be justifiable .His failure vs WI doesn't make much sense to me. And his failure vs India makes sense as he wasn't good facing Ashwin or kumble in Indian conditions.

His overall numbers are distorted by his wk/bat numbers. Without the gloves he has done well pretty much everywhere.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...orderby=default;template=results;type=batting
 
Younis has played a number of memorable test knocks for Pakistan, most of them resulting in wins (149 in Auckland, 267 in Banglore, 106 in Kingston, 171 in Pallekele), so he is potentially an ATG.

Younis averaged 65.80 when he last played in England in 2006. In England, he has already performed well. It is Australia where he has to score at 50+ average in the upcoming tour to be recognized as an ATG test batsman. I think he will be able to do it easily on these flat Australian pitches.
 
This more/less than 40 ave stuff is absolute nonsense. As if some 30 odd more runs in India, 40 something more runs in WI and some 60 odd more runs in SA defines a 12.5k run Test career. That sort of thinking is laughable at best. Averages 60+ in 7 of the 11 places btw. Not bad for a no3 Test bat (that too keeping wickets in a third of em) during a career spanning 15+ years eh.

I think that this topic has already been discussed to death. There is a reason why cricketers are judged on the basis of their entire career not just their happy phases.
 
Modern ATG has to be gun in one format and at least decent in another. You can't be crap in large part of cricket played in the last 30 years and then counted as an ATG.

Folks can debate about him being gun in the test format, but YK is crap in ODI format. He is simply not an ATG for me.
 
Last edited:
Has won and saved a lot more test matches than a number of cricketers unanimously considered ATGs so really don't know what the debate is about
 
Has won and saved a lot more test matches than a number of cricketers unanimously considered ATGs so really don't know what the debate is about

Yeah definitely underrated without a doubt. When he reaches that 10k Test runs mark I think he’ll finally get the recognition that he truly deserves. This year Pakistan are due to play what 4 Tests in Eng, 2 against WI in UAE, 2 in NZ and 3 in Oz. So the stage is very much set for YK to put his name up there. Defining year for him.
 
Not there yet but he should end his career as an ATG, unless he fails spectacularly, next year. A fantastic batsman and a team-man through and through, he deserves to make that grade.
 
can't measure this objectively. every player is a team-man.

I look at what his team-mates, particularly the younger ones, say about him. If a veteran is taking his time to help out a youngster then he is a team-man. Not everyone is this helpful.
 
Younis khan is an amazing test batsman. Obviously he hasn't had the opportunity to play abroad much however, his numbers in Australia, England and South Africa are still very good.

The only problem with Younis is that he's on the wrong side of 30's and from here, I believe, he will start to deteriorate and by the time he ends his career I reckon he would've played about a 120 odd tests with almost 70% of the matches played against either extremely weak opponents or on batting friendly pitches. I think that will go a long way in undermining his achievements.
 
I look at what his team-mates, particularly the younger ones, say about him. If a veteran is taking his time to help out a youngster then he is a team-man. Not everyone is this helpful.

that's tenuous.
what is fact is that he managed to alienate the whole team when he was captain.
Yes players were wrong and despicable to take oaths etc, but leadership is not just being the best player in the team (contrast Javed vs Imran). Its about carrying the team with you. Plus the nonsense he has been spewing about his place in odi's for the last year and a half.
Just your garden variety insecure Pakistani player. Nothing more nothing less.
 
that's tenuous.
what is fact is that he managed to alienate the whole team when he was captain.
Yes players were wrong and despicable to take oaths etc, but leadership is not just being the best player in the team (contrast Javed vs Imran). Its about carrying the team with you. Plus the nonsense he has been spewing about his place in odi's for the last year and a half.
Just your garden variety insecure Pakistani player. Nothing more nothing less.

He has his flaws and a big ego but that does not wipe away the time he gives to the younger players in the squad.
 
How is crickets biggest winner not a top tier ATG? :facepalm:

Does he need to play in ordinary sides for his runs to be rated more? :ponting :sachin
 
Do Afridi and Hafeez help the youngsters out as much as Younis?

I don't know, but if I had the time I could find enough quotes. As I said its subjective. Nearly every reject from the odi team is thankful on record to afridi for saving their career and keeping them in the t20 team.
 
After one good innings all the disco dance performance on the middle of the pitch in 3 prior games is forgotten?

Test career average in England is 50+

Highest run scorer @ average 48-49 in 2016 England test series.

Top scored with 218 at the Oval - one of the best hundreds by a Pakistani batsman

So keep crying
 
After one good innings all the disco dance performance on the middle of the pitch in 3 prior games is forgotten?

It is instead you who is using exception and not the rule. Those 3 games were a fluke and every good player goes through that at some point in their life. YK has 32 hundreds and close to 10,000 runs, an average of nearly 54. All that in 108 games. That's what counts instead of performance in 3 games.
 
yes, he is an atg. but a legue below of sachin,kallis, lara. he is in the same league of ponting, sanga, dravid.but among the four he will be the last.
 
A bonafide ATG. Fifth greatest batsman from the subcontinent, behind Sachin, Gavaskar, Miandad and Sangakkara.
 
Question is not whether he is a good batsman or not. If so, I would have said he is a very very good batsman. Question is if he is an all time great. For that my answer is big no. He can be called Pakistan's all time great.
 
Yes, he is.

Don't let haters fool you :yk

Man is a living legend and we'll only know his true value when he retires. He is a game-winner. His heroics in 4th innings has won us many games.

Many so called "ATGs" would be proud of his stats.
 
Last edited:
5 test matches in New Zealand and Australia are important to seal his legacy.
 
Very good stats but no he's not an ATG. Something is missing which I couldn't say for sure.
 
He is an ATG arguably but he has the chance to leave no doubt in the coming tours
 
No. he is not and thats partly not his fault.
He hasnt toured outside asia as much as some of the other ATG's have.
He has been trying to cement his legacy this year, because this year will determine whether what he has done over the last five years is not down to playing in UAE.
He nearly flunked the test in England, but credit to him for (a) recognizing that his joke of a technique needed to change if he is to play away from the UAE and (b) making England pay when he got it right.
My hope is that he remembers these lessons well when we get to ANZ.
We have a series against West Indies which i expect him to do well in, but hopefully he does not lapse to his bad habits there.

His isnt ATG but he is certainly within touching distance of miandad to be the country's best batsman.
 
No. he is not and thats partly not his fault.
He hasnt toured outside asia as much as some of the other ATG's have.
He has been trying to cement his legacy this year, because this year will determine whether what he has done over the last five years is not down to playing in UAE.
He nearly flunked the test in England, but credit to him for (a) recognizing that his joke of a technique needed to change if he is to play away from the UAE and (b) making England pay when he got it right.
My hope is that he remembers these lessons well when we get to ANZ.
We have a series against West Indies which i expect him to do well in, but hopefully he does not lapse to his bad habits there.

His isnt ATG but he is certainly within touching distance of miandad to be the country's best batsman.

Nopes he is not.I guess Miandad is under appreciated in Pakistan.YK isnt even an equal of Inzy.
 
Nopes he is not.I guess Miandad is under appreciated in Pakistan.YK isnt even an equal of Inzy.

Talking test only I assume. It gets subjective when comparing batsmen of different eras. But a successful 2016/2017 which leads to draws/wins against the stronger teams of the era, will put him on top in my view.
 
Talking test only I assume. It gets subjective when comparing batsmen of different eras. But a successful 2016/2017 which leads to draws/wins against the stronger teams of the era, will put him on top in my view.

Leave Miandad,even Inzy has a better away record than YK,and Inzy played in 90s.
 
Is Younis Khan an ATG in Test cricket?

Let's see the basic criteria for modern subcontinent batsmen to be an ATG. 40+ average in Aus, Eng, SAF and NZ is considered a pass by most people on online forums I found

Average- 53 (pass)

Has century in all countries- Yes (pass)

Away average- 50.33 (pass)

Average in Australia- 50.63 (pass)

Average in England- 50.62 (pass)

Average in New Zealand- 43.00 (pass)

Average in SAF- 32.60 (fail)

So he failed 1 out of 7. Not too bad

I don't have any more criteria for pass or fail so let's see some other special stats

Average in win- 77.30 (6th on all time list, min 20 matches, ahead of..almost everybody)

Average in away win (excluding Ban and Zim)- 108.19 (1st on all time list, min 10 matches).

He also averages more than 45 in both 3rd and 4th innings

South Africa is probably the hardest country to bat in so it's no surprise Younis Khan failed there. Only 2 players in history of subcontinent (min 5 match) has averaged more than 40 in South Africa (Laxman and yours truly, Tendulkar). Younis Khan is 5th on the list.

Only weird outlier is in West Indies where YK averages a paltry 23.44 (which makes no sense given how bad West Indies has been since 2000s, and it's the only country other than SAF where YK averages less than 40)

For me he's an ATG, the special stats sealed the deal for me.

Link for special stats

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=2;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=6;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=batting_average;qualmin1=10;qualval1=matches;result=1;template=results;type=batting

Thoughts?
 
hands down
Younis is one of the best test bats of post 2000 era in world cricket
 
He is an amazing test batsman but not ATG.

Should have played the overseas cycle last time before his reflexes went down.

A simple way to judge if someone is ATG or not is whether majority of fans consider him ATG or not.

This thread will take the usual direction though with one side vehemently calling him ATG while other vehemently denying it. With Younis Khan, there is no middle ground.

For me, his Galle knock was crazy (for the situation he came in). When you look at the scoreboard, it may not look as special considering that even Shan Masood scored in that innings but it indeed was a super duper knock. Had some of the test stars played it, we would have kept hearing about it till the end of time. His recent Oval knock was quality too which knocked the winds out of England and helped Pakistan level the series.
 
Last edited:
I think many underrate him because he's not talented enough. His record his good enough everywhere and has longevity(yes it matters otherwise even Adam Voges is an ATG) . Also has played plenty of crucial knocks under pressure. Only failed in SA and that's OK in my opinion. So yes, IMO he's an ATG.
 
The only away country where Younis Khan has a ATG record is England.

Those averages in Australia are inflated by a one off knock played in some dead rubber, long long after Australian team were at their peak. The sample size is too low.

Younis Khan is somebody who is playing Test Cricket since 2000. That was the time when Australian bowling was at its best, scoring a ton in Australia was Gold. He had the oppurnity to show his class against Mc Grath , Gillespie, Warne which he never did. So by scoring 175 *in 2016 in a dead rubber, Younis Khan inflates his average and becomes an ATG in Australia?


Indian Batsmen like Sachin, Dravid, Laxman scored tons and tons of runs against ATG Australian bowlers in Australia to earn the ATG tag, and Younis Khan does nothing against the strong Australian team and scores a 175* in a dead rubber in 2016 , and becomes an ATG?

Which ATG bowlers from Australia would rate Younis Khan? Mc Grath, Warne ? You decide it.
 
Last edited:
The only away country where Younis Khan has a ATG record is England.

Those averages in Australia are inflated by a one off knock played in some dead rubber, long long after Australian team were at their peak. The sample size is too low.

Younis Khan is somebody who is playing Test Cricket since 2000. That was the time when Australian bowling was at its best, scoring a ton in Australia was Gold. He had the oppurnity to show his class against Mc Grath , Gillespie, Warne which he never did. So by scoring 175 *in 2016 in a dead rubber, Younis Khan inflates his average and becomes an ATG in Australia?


Indian Batsmen like Sachin, Dravid, Laxman scored tons and tons of runs against ATG Australian bowlers in Australia to earn the ATG tag, and Younis Khan does nothing against the strong Australian team and scores a 175* in a dead rubber in 2016 , and becomes an ATG?

Which ATG bowlers from Australia would rate Younis Khan? Mc Grath, Warne ? You decide it.

I am not a fan of YK myself but you're nitpicking way too match.
 
The only away country where Younis Khan has a ATG record is England.

Those averages in Australia are inflated by a one off knock played in some dead rubber, long long after Australian team were at their peak. The sample size is too low.

Younis Khan is somebody who is playing Test Cricket since 2000. That was the time when Australian bowling was at its best, scoring a ton in Australia was Gold. He had the oppurnity to show his class against Mc Grath , Gillespie, Warne which he never did. So by scoring 175 *in 2016 in a dead rubber, Younis Khan inflates his average and becomes an ATG in Australia?


Indian Batsmen like Sachin, Dravid, Laxman scored tons and tons of runs against ATG Australian bowlers in Australia to earn the ATG tag, and Younis Khan does nothing against the strong Australian team and scores a 175* in a dead rubber in 2016 , and becomes an ATG?

Which ATG bowlers from Australia would rate Younis Khan? Mc Grath, Warne ? You decide it.

Scoring 175 against Starc and Hazlewood is not good enough? By the way, Dravid never scored against ATG bowlers in OZ. He scored heavily in 2003 when McWarne were not playing and on later tours. Those bowlers were not even as good as Haze/Starc. I'm sorry but this is a very biased post. Also Laxman? :))) I'm sorry but he's not in the same league as YK at all. YK is better than any test batsman we have produced apart from Sach/Gavaskar. He's on par with dravid i suppose.
 
I am not a fan of YK myself but you're nitpicking way too match.

What nitpicking? Are you telling me YK is as good a Batsman like SRT, Lara, Laxman, Dravid in Australia? Is that how cheaply you think ATG tag is earned in Australia? By scoring a huge ton in a dead rubber in 2016 while going missing in Australia from 2000-2010.

You decide.
 
Scoring 175 against Starc and Hazlewood is not good enough? By the way, Dravid never scored against ATG bowlers in OZ. He scored heavily in 2003 when McWarne were not playing and on later tours. Those bowlers were not even as good as Haze/Starc. I'm sorry but this is a very biased post. Also Laxman? :))) I'm sorry but he's not in the same league as YK at all. YK is better than any test batsman we have produced apart from Sach/Gavaskar. He's on par with dravid i suppose.

I'm biased? It's clear whose playing to the gallery here.

I was talking about Laxman's record in Australia, not in overall terms.

So, you are telling that Dravids match winning knock in 2003 was of lower quality than the one played by Younis Khan in 2016 in a dead rubber?

Younis Khans average in Australia was around 35 from 2000 till the last dead rubber which he played. Australia had already won the series, comes the dead rubber and boom.... Younis Khan inflates his average from 35 to 50 in one knock in a dead game and becomes an ATG in that country. How easy.....
 
He is an amazing test batsman but not ATG.

Should have played the overseas cycle last time before his reflexes went down.

A simple way to judge if someone is ATG or not is whether majority of fans consider him ATG or not.

This thread will take the usual direction though with one side vehemently calling him ATG while other vehemently denying it. With Younis Khan, there is no middle ground.

For me, his Galle knock was crazy (for the situation he came in). When you look at the scoreboard, it may not look as special considering that even Shan Masood scored in that innings but it indeed was a super duper knock. Had some of the test stars played it, we would have kept hearing about it till the end of time. His recent Oval knock was quality too which knocked the winds out of England and helped Pakistan level the series.

forget about ATG lets cherish this moments and mention some of his top knocks..for me...1 gilley 171 2 oval 218 3 baguluru 267 4 karachi 313 5 127 in UAE against eng 2012.......what is urs???
 
I'm biased? It's clear whose playing to the gallery here.

I was talking about Laxman's record in Australia, not in overall terms.

So, you are telling that Dravids match winning knock in 2003 was of lower quality than the one played by Younis Khan in 2016 in a dead rubber?

Younis Khans average in Australia was around 35 from 2000 till the last dead rubber which he played. Australia had already won the series, comes the dead rubber and boom.... Younis Khan inflates his average from 35 to 50 in one knock in a dead game and becomes an ATG ian that country. How easy.....

tets cricket is equally important wether dead rubber or not ..some can just dream of the knock he played there....remember he was on his last feet there..if pcb did not arrange tours there when he was at his peak then it is not younus fault...
 
He is an amazing test batsman but not ATG.

Should have played the overseas cycle last time before his reflexes went down.

A simple way to judge if someone is ATG or not is whether majority of fans consider him ATG or not.

This thread will take the usual direction though with one side vehemently calling him ATG while other vehemently denying it. With Younis Khan, there is no middle ground.

For me, his Galle knock was crazy (for the situation he came in). When you look at the scoreboard, it may not look as special considering that even Shan Masood scored in that innings but it indeed was a super duper knock. Had some of the test stars played it, we would have kept hearing about it till the end of time. His recent Oval knock was quality too which knocked the winds out of England and helped Pakistan level the series.

You mean his knock in Pallekele*

Also, going back to the OP, he will surely correct his average in WI in hos final 3 Tests.

All in all, for Tests, he is a borderline ATG for me, if not an ATG.
 
Younis khan did miss many series against strong sides at their peak and compensated later against weaker sides. He never toured in succession.
 
tets cricket is equally important wether dead rubber or not ..some can just dream of the knock he played there....remember he was on his last feet there..if pcb did not arrange tours there when he was at his peak then it is not younus fault...

Yes Test is equally important but why go missing during previous tours and when series is still alive?
 
I'm biased? It's clear whose playing to the gallery here.

I was talking about Laxman's record in Australia, not in overall terms.

So, you are telling that Dravids match winning knock in 2003 was of lower quality than the one played by Younis Khan in 2016 in a dead rubber?

Younis Khans average in Australia was around 35 from 2000 till the last dead rubber which he played. Australia had already won the series, comes the dead rubber and boom.... Younis Khan inflates his average from 35 to 50 in one knock in a dead game and becomes an ATG in that country. How easy.....

Yesyou are biased. You said the likes of dravid scored tons of runs against ATG attacks in australia whhen he didn't. Starc/Hazlewood is a better attack than anything Dravid scored against in Australia. How much did Dravid actually score against Mcwarne in 1999? i could just as easily argue that Dravid inflated his averages in australia by bashing weaker attacks and still he averages only 41! Laxman scored 1 knock against a strong OZ attack in OZ - 167 or so back in 1999. If you're gonna nitpick every record, then atleast do a fair job of it. also, YK missed a tour of OZ in 2009 because of issues with PCB. If you think a peak YK could not score in OZ then i'm afraid you're being extremely biased
 
If you take the best Asian test batsmen of all time it would be

1.Sach
2. gavaskar
3. sanga/miandad/dravid
4. YK

Lol at those putting laxman ahead.
 
To me; yes he is. But to be uniformly regarded as one, hope he scores a triple in the WI series.
 
Plenty of discussion on this already. No

Again, I ask.

Why not?

When he surprisingly meets most of the average critereas in the OP which really are a benchmark used by Asian fans to rate their batsmen.

Will be scoring scored 10 k Test runs
Tons in all countries
40+ average in countries like Australia, England, NZ.

Where do you think he's lagging?
 
YK is better than any test batsman we have produced apart from Sach/Gavaskar. He's on par with dravid i suppose.

Dravid was ahead of YK most of his career. You're comparing a batsman with average in high 50s most of his career to a player who barely managed to touch 50 most of the time.
 
Again, I ask.

Why not?

When he surprisingly meets most of the average critereas in the OP which really are a benchmark used by Asian fans to rate their batsmen.

Will be scoring scored 10 k Test runs
Tons in all countries
40+ average in countries like Australia, England, NZ.

Where do you think he's lagging?

Yeah, I am too lazy to reproduce all the arguments, there's a mega thread on this somewhere
 
Scoring 175 against Starc and Hazlewood is not good enough? By the way, Dravid never scored against ATG bowlers in OZ. He scored heavily in 2003 when McWarne were not playing and on later tours. Those bowlers were not even as good as Haze/Starc. I'm sorry but this is a very biased post. Also Laxman? :))) I'm sorry but he's not in the same league as YK at all. YK is better than any test batsman we have produced apart from Sach/Gavaskar. He's on par with dravid i suppose.

Younis Khan has only 7/34 test tons out of Asia compared to Dravid's 14/36, now do the maths. Also Dravid has won matches single handedly in SA, AUS and ENG. Laxman was offered by OZ to play for them and his innings has been chosen as the best test innings of the century. And if scoring against Starc and Hazlewood is the criteria for you then Kohli has scored against them at will, and unlike Younis he didn't faced depleted bowling attack, Kohli faced Johnson,Harris,Starc and Hazlewood.

Heck even Kohli has more test tons out of asia than Younis. SO now decide for yourself, whether Younis played less outside or simply he wasn't good outside, which one is it?:kohli
 
Yesyou are biased. You said the likes of dravid scored tons of runs against ATG attacks in australia whhen he didn't. Starc/Hazlewood is a better attack than anything Dravid scored against in Australia. How much did Dravid actually score against Mcwarne in 1999? i could just as easily argue that Dravid inflated his averages in australia by bashing weaker attacks and still he averages only 41! Laxman scored 1 knock against a strong OZ attack in OZ - 167 or so back in 1999. If you're gonna nitpick every record, then atleast do a fair job of it. also, YK missed a tour of OZ in 2009 because of issues with PCB. If you think a peak YK could not score in OZ then i'm afraid you're being extremely biased

I have utmost respect for YK as a batsman and not for his antics but if you imply that he is better than Dravid then hats off to your biased knowledge.:salute
 
Back
Top