Kumar Sangakkara is not an all-time great

[Ab Fan]

I know this will come as a surprise for everyone. But I believe if someone like Kumar Sangakkara is an ATG, then so is Pakistani legend Younis Khan.

For clarification, let us analyze the performance of both home and away in test format. While it is quite clear that both batsmen had fair share of issues during their first five years of career when there were still a good amount of ATGs playing around.

However, over their career, both have smashed teams and scored tons for fun at home against every single opposition. They are pretty much equal at home conditions IMO. So, let us analyze their away performance:-

Australia:-

While Sangakkara's 192 at Hobart was a legendary knock, Younis Khan has done very well in Australia too. His 87 against McGrath and Warne in 2003 shielded the beard who finally managed to put bat on bowl in that series and scored a 111. Years later, he again showed up with bat, albeit in a dead rubber, but against a high quality bowling attack of Starc, Hazlewood and Lyon and scored a 175. So, we can say both have done equally well. 1-1.

England:-

In England however, Younis beats Sangakkara quite easily. Sanga averages 44 and had scored one hundred but Younis smashed two big hundreds in that country with the latter being one of his all-time best knock. So, Younis wins in England. 2-1.

New Zealand:-

Here Sangakkara wins no doubt. No need for explanation. Sanga 2-2 Younis.

South Africa/Windies:-

Both have performed underpar in these two countries barring one knock in SA. So, both loses and scoreline remains same.

Now with this, we come to Asia:-

While Sangakkara has given the hammering of lifetime to Pakistan, Younis has also given hammering of lifetime to we Indians and hence we have a special place in our heart for him. However, Sangakkara failed in India while in comparison, Younis has done very well in Sri Lanka too. So, I believe Younis has an edge in Asia while it is equivalent outside Asia.

Both have done their share of weak bashing and has got plenty of tons in kitty.

So, can we conclude that if Younis Khan, who is widely recognised as not an ATG, then Kumar Sangakkara is also a non ATG or is it that since he is a Pakistani, he cant be an ATG? The thread is restricted to tests only.

Discuss!

 

[Ab Fan]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION], [MENTION=141114]Hasan123[/MENTION], [MENTION=726]ChiefDestroyer[/MENTION]

 

[babajee]

YK isn’t an ATG? Whaaat.

 

[Ab Fan]

YK isn’t an ATG? Whaaat.

Many consider him inferior to even Inzamam.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

People don't consider YK an ATG because he was atrocious in ODIs. Sanga is an ATG in ODIs and also in Tests. YK is definitely a test ATG but not overall ATG.

 

[hk031992]

Sanga was better vs pace, or atleast looked more comfortable vs pace, that's why people rank him higher.

 

[Hasan123]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION], [MENTION=141114]Hasan123[/MENTION], [MENTION=726]ChiefDestroyer[/MENTION]

He is an ATG for me. Carried his batting line up. Scored consistently. Comfortable vs pace and spin. Has some good knocks overseas and performed in tests and ODIs.

 

[Ab Fan]

He is an ATG for me. Carried his batting line up. Scored consistently. Comfortable vs pace and spin. Has some good knocks overseas and performed in tests and ODIs.

Then Younis is also a test ATG?

Carried his batting lineup single-handedly without having Murali in his corner.

Scored consistently.

Has good knocks everywhere.

Looked comfortable against pace before he turned 35 and yet played a great knock in Oval.

 

[Hasan123]

Then Younis is also a test ATG?

Carried his batting lineup single-handedly without having Murali in his corner.

Scored consistently.

Has good knocks everywhere.

Looked comfortable against pace before he turned 35 and yet played a great knock in Oval.

No because he looked poor versus lateral movement and he was not a great player of pace at all.

 

[Ab Fan]

No because he looked poor versus lateral movement and he was not a great player of pace at all.

He was not a great player of pace, yet he performed equally well as Sangakkara outside Asia. Shouldn't we rate players on basis of performance?

And what if he looked poor vs lateral movement? Mr. 360° player looks like he is the second coming of Viv Richards even when he scores a 30 odd but yet he throws his wicket time and time. At the end, what matters is whether Younis get the job done? Does he? yes.

Hence, a test ATG.

 

[Hasan123]

He was not a great player of pace, yet he performed equally well as Sangakkara outside Asia. Shouldn't we rate players on basis of performance?

And what if he looked poor vs lateral movement? Mr. 360° player looks like he is the second coming of Viv Richards even when he scores a 30 odd but yet he throws his wicket time and time. At the end, what matters is whether Younis get the job done? Does he? yes.

Hence, a test ATG.

You are entitled to your opinion. Majority of the cricketing world won't rate Younis as an ATG.

 

[cricketjoshila]

You are entitled to your opinion. Majority of the cricketing world won't rate Younis as an ATG.

YK is not a ATG. But Sanga is borderline.

 

[Hitman]

Sanga is a borderline great of the game. YK is a Pakistani great, much like Inzamam.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Sanga is ATG.

Yoni is not.

 

[cr7great]

yonius khan was bigger match winner than sangakara

 

[ethan hunt]

How do sachin and sangakarra compare statistically ?

 

[Hitman]

How do sachin and sangakarra compare statistically ?

One averages 51 away from Asia, the other averages 44 odd away from Asia.

 

[Rahul1]

Sangakkara is an ATG without a doubt.

Lol at mentioning Younis as an ATG.

 

[ethan hunt]

One averages 51 away from Asia, the other averages 44 odd away from Asia.

Can you do a country and teamwise breakdown ?

 

[Rishta Aunty]

Sanga is an ATG for sure, and Younis is one (just about) in Tests too. Younis' main problem is that he never had an Aura that great batsman do. That combined with how inelegant he was, means that he's constantly underrated. For example, most people would think of even someone like Laxman over him because of the Aura he had against Australia in particular and the incredible elegance of his play.

One point though, Sanga is definitely a great but people go by stats way too much with him. His 57 odd average was butressed by an incredibly purple patch after 2013 where Test match batting became much easier. Scoring runs in the late 90's and early 00's was much much harder than in the 2010's. Nonetheless he's going to be in contention for most great teams.

 

[Bhaijaan]

They are both not ATGs. Kumar however was a much superior overall batsman. His numbers are superior, did it in all formats, the sheer size of his achievements also dwarf Yoni's.

Having said Yoni will always be the better human being which is what matters the most to your Bhaijaan.

 

[Ab Fan]

Looks like we can conclude Yoni as a test ATG given most posters consider Sangakkara as test ATG too.

I agree Sanga is ATG because he has done well in odis too but Yoni is also a test ATG atleast.

 

[Chrish]

SC folks are obsessed 'ATG' tag..

 

[BunnyRabbit]

The way I see it is when Younis would get himself in, he would make it count and score a 100 more often than not when he would play himself in. But the times, he wouldn't do so, he would fall cheaply.
For Sangakkara, he also made it count, but he would more often than not scored fifties as well even when he wasn't in full control.
So Younis' failures more often than not would hurt Pakistan team, while even in relative failure Sangakkara would score a 50 or 60.

 

[blackanhyellow]

Neither Sanga or YK are ATGs.

But like in the Dravid thread, if there is tiers of ATGs, all three Dravid, YK, and Sanga are second tier all time greats.

All have phenomenal test records and have played match winning knocks, as well has had good knocks in most places they toured. Were also exceptional at home.

Dravid > Sanga > YK but all three should be in the same classification of second tier ATGs.

 

[Shutdown Corner]

One averages 51 away from Asia, the other averages 44 odd away from Asia.

But Sachin's 51 away was rarely against the home teams' best attack of that time. There was always a bowler or two missing.

 

[Shutdown Corner]

YK averages over 50 in AUS and ENG. Averages 75+ in India and 40+ in NZ. Only country his average is a little low is in SA at 32. I'd say thats good enough to be in the ATG classification, granted he's in the 2nd tier of ATGs.

 

[CricFan2012]

He was not a great player of pace, yet he performed equally well as Sangakkara outside Asia. Shouldn't we rate players on basis of performance?

And what if he looked poor vs lateral movement? Mr. 360° player looks like he is the second coming of Viv Richards even when he scores a 30 odd but yet he throws his wicket time and time. At the end, what matters is whether Younis get the job done? Does he? yes.

Hence, a test ATG.

Younis has milked the spinners big time when he's played overseas while pacers have kept economy rates of 2, plus hasn't been consistent there unlike Sanga

 

[Mirpur express]

Last 30 years only 2 leftys better then Sanga Lara & Gilli.. he is on par with Hayden Anwar

 

[Sachin136]

Neither Sanga or YK are ATGs.

But like in the Dravid thread, if there is tiers of ATGs, all three Dravid, YK, and Sanga are second tier all time greats.

All have phenomenal test records and have played match winning knocks, as well has had good knocks in most places they toured. Were also exceptional at home.

Dravid > Sanga > YK but all three should be in the same classification of second tier ATGs.

Disagree with that. Dravid and Sangakkara are both easily ATGs (but below Sachin, Lara, etc) and a clear cut above Younis.

Younis just hasn't done enough overseas. While Sangakkara hasn't done a lot either, he didn't fail at least.

Last 30 years only 2 leftys better then Sanga Lara & Gilli.. he is on par with Hayden Anwar

Sangakkara as a test batsman is extremely far ahead of Gilchrist.

 

[Buffet]

Sanga was gun in the test and good enough in the ODI. An ATG for me.

 

[blackanhyellow]

Disagree with that. Dravid and Sangakkara are both easily ATGs (but below Sachin, Lara, etc) and a clear cut above Younis.

Younis just hasn't done enough overseas. While Sangakkara hasn't done a lot either, he didn't fail at least.



Sangakkara as a test batsman is extremely far ahead of Gilchrist.

YK averages 50 in Aus (Dravid averages 42)

YK averages 50 in England (Sanga averages 41)

YK averages 32 in South Africa (Dravid averages 29)

If you take into account all away test series where subcontinental batsmen are known to be poor in (England, Aus, New Zealand, and South Africa) here are their respective averages:

Dravid - 49
YK - 44
Sanga - 46

Yk's average goes down here because he didnt do very well in New Zealand, where as Dravid did much better.

Dravid no doubt played some very impactful knocks overseas, perhaps more memorable than some of the ones Younis played. But still YK was no failure overseas, not sure how you come up with that conclusion.

 

[PakLFC]

Duleep Mendis is an all time great Sri Lankan. Youtube shows him hitting sixes for fun! Sanga came way after the great man, he's just a Mendis wannabe

 

[Justcrazy]

Sangakara was good even in his last few games , younis was forced to retire.

 

[Arham_PakFan]

Sanga is an ATG because of his performances in tests.

 

[Ab Fan]

Sanga is an ATG because of his performances in tests.

Younis is also an all-time great because of his performance in tests too.

 

[SLcric123]

Sanga is ATG without any shadow of doubt.

 

[HuzaifaE]

They're both ATGs in my book so I think this entire thread just falls on its face right from the start.

 

[Ab Fan]

They're both ATGs in my book so I think this entire thread just falls on its face right from the start.

The general consensus and perception is that Younis is even inferior to Inzamam, let alone Sanga. However, I also consider either both as ATGs or if not then neither of two are.

 

[UN talkz]

Both ATGs in Tests; Sanga slightly ahead of YK

 

[UN talkz]

Sangakara was good even in his last few games , younis was forced to retire.

Please check his scores in last 5 Tests

 

[Red Devil]

Both ATGs.

 

[Red Devil]

Many consider him inferior to even Inzamam.

Not really, most will put YK ahead as a Test bat.

 

[Arham_PakFan]

Younis is also an all-time great because of his performance in tests too.

Ah,I meant because of his(Sanga's) performances in tests and ODI's both.I consider Younis to be a test great.But Sanga is rated higher because of his performance across formats.

 

[SL_Fan]

He was not a great player of pace, yet he performed equally well as Sangakkara outside Asia. Shouldn't we rate players on basis of performance?

And what if he looked poor vs lateral movement? Mr. 360° player looks like he is the second coming of Viv Richards even when he scores a 30 odd but yet he throws his wicket time and time. At the end, what matters is whether Younis get the job done? Does he? yes.

Hence, a test ATG.

YK outside the SC

Sanga outside the SC overall and when not keeping

 

[SL_Fan]

YK in the SC

Sanga in the SC overall and when not keeping

 

[SL_Fan]

Both careers spanned around the same period. It took YK a fair while to get to the 750 mark and from there on he hardly rated above 850. Whereas Sanga was fairly quick off the mark and then dropped off a bit post mid 2006 after giving up keeping he only ever dropped below the 800 mark for a few days due to an injury lay-off. Other than that maintained a rating of over 850 on average for the most part close to a decade straight. Also in terms of top rankings YK was rated number one just briefly in 2009 whereas Sanga held the top spot for well over 800 days. All in all bit of a gap there for mine.


Test ratings - Red lines represent 800 and 850 rating points and the Blue line YK’s peak rating

 

[SL_Fan]

How do sachin and sangakarra compare statistically ?

In Tests as specialist bats apart from the hype machine nothing much in it actually.


Test ratings - Red lines represent 800 and 850 rating points and the Blue line Sachin’s peak rating

Sanga

Rating of over 850 on average for close to a decade straight (65% of career)
Spent around 3 years under 750 (20% of career) and the rest 750-800 (around 2 years - 15% of career)

Sachin

Rating of around 850 on average for around 6 years all up (25% of career)
Spent around 10 years under 750 (40% of career) and the rest 750-800 (around 8 years total - 35% of career)

 

[Adijazz1706]

In Tests as specialist bats apart from the hype machine nothing much in it actually.


Test ratings - Red lines represent 800 and 850 rating points and the Blue line Sachin’s peak rating

Sanga

Rating of over 850 on average for close to a decade straight (65% of career)
Spent around 3 years under 750 (20% of career) and the rest 750-800 (around 2 years - 15% of career)

Sachin

Rating of around 850 on average for around 6 years all up (25% of career)
Spent around 10 years under 750 (40% of career) and the rest 750-800 (around 8 years total - 35% of career)

Interesting comparison,

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

In Tests as specialist bats apart from the hype machine nothing much in it actually.


Test ratings - Red lines represent 800 and 850 rating points and the Blue line Sachin’s peak rating

Sanga

Rating of over 850 on average for close to a decade straight (65% of career)
Spent around 3 years under 750 (20% of career) and the rest 750-800 (around 2 years - 15% of career)

Sachin

Rating of around 850 on average for around 6 years all up (25% of career)
Spent around 10 years under 750 (40% of career) and the rest 750-800 (around 8 years total - 35% of career)

Come on... Are ratings the criteria now,
Sanga's avg is 44.4 away from home while sachin's avg is 52
In terms of facing the best attacks and scoring runs against them sachin is clearly ahead.

 

[SL_Fan]

Come on... Are ratings the criteria now,
Sanga's avg is 44.4 away from home while sachin's avg is 52
In terms of facing the best attacks and scoring runs against them sachin is clearly ahead.

Wth you mean ratings the criteria

It's only what the most objective and thorough measurement out there when it comes to comparing players’ performance during similar time periods. Certainly takes a lot more factors and variables into account than just some simple comparison of averages and what not.

Test Match Rankings

For a batsman, the factors are:

Runs scored
Ratings of the opposing bowling attack; the higher the combined ratings of the attack, the more value is given to the batsman’s innings (in proportion)
The level of run-scoring in the match, and the team’s innings total; an innings of 100 runs in a match where all teams scored 500 is worth less than 100 runs in a match where all teams were bowled out for 200. And if a team scores 500 in the first innings and 200 in the second innings, a century in the second innings will get more credit than in the first innings (because the general level of run scoring was higher in the first innings)
Out or not out (a not out innings receives a bonus)
The result. Batsmen who score highly in victories receive a bonus. That bonus will be higher for highly rated opposition teams (i.e. win bonus against the current Australia team is higher than the bonus against Bangladesh.)

 

[SL_Fan]

But hey since you are after averages and attacks etc here ya go.

 

[Adijazz1706]

But hey since you are after averages and attacks etc here ya go.

Definitive and final
Just sticky these pics on the cricket homepage so we won't get such threads again

 

[SL_Fan]

Definitive and final
Just sticky these pics on the cricket homepage so we won't get such threads again

Yeah one heck of an analysis piece that one. The guy used weighted average to determine the strengths of the attacks batsmen in the 10k club faced going through all of their innings one by one (hopefully updates it now that YK has also joined the exclusive club). He also found out the median for all Tests by going through and doing the same for all Test matches in order to divide them into stronger and weaker attacks. Must have taken ages. Respek!

 

[Ab Fan]

YK outside the SC

Sanga outside the SC overall and when not keeping

Welcome back [MENTION=132270]SL_Fan[/MENTION] ! Came up with a bang. Well done.

Coming to the point, Sanga kept gloves till 2005 when he hasn't established himself as a world class batsmen.It was around 2006 that he hit his peak. As a result,his period of peak days coincided with the period he started playing as a specialist batsmen and since then there was no stopping for him. I dont think his numbers in first five years affected because of keeping constraint but because he was still evolving as a batsmen.

However, I believe he is an ATG batsmen in tests but at the same time, Younis is also an ATG in test format.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Anyone with over 20k runs is an ATG.

 

[SLcric123]

Sanga has always been perceived as a bigger batsmen than Younis. He is ATG.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

These stats should shut all haters up: Kumar Chokshanada Sangakkara is an All Time Great.

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aO3BLDDIFA

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Anyone with over 20k runs is an ATG.

Not Jayawardena

 

[SL_Fan]

Welcome back [MENTION=132270]SL_Fan[/MENTION] ! Came up with a bang. Well done.

Coming to the point, Sanga kept gloves till 2005 when he hasn't established himself as a world class batsmen.It was around 2006 that he hit his peak. As a result,his period of peak days coincided with the period he started playing as a specialist batsmen and since then there was no stopping for him. I dont think his numbers in first five years affected because of keeping constraint but because he was still evolving as a batsmen.

However, I believe he is an ATG batsmen in tests but at the same time, Younis is also an ATG in test format.

Cheers buddy haha. Btw even in his early years he actually averaged close to 60 against the top teams when he wasn’t keeping. Hence the move to lighten his workload and find another keeper. Obviously keeping in Tests and batting one down is a massive workload for anyone. Also if you look at the ratings he did get off to a flier before dropping off a bit. Reached a 800+ rating within a couple of years. If you compare that with Sachin’s ratings for example it took him around 5 years to get there.


Sanga vs Top 7 up to mid 2006 when not keeping (ie when he was predominantly a wk/bat)

 

[Sidilicious]

He is an ATG, but not in the tier of Sachin, Lara etc. And it is ridiculous to only look at stats when he was not keeping. Doesn’t matter if he was keeping or not all stats matter. Might as well then discard those where YK struggled, or discard Ponting in India, or Sachin’s when he had his tennis elbow.

 

[Sidilicious]

Also the bowling faced by the likes of Sanga and co at their peak in late 00s and early 10s is nowhere is comparable to what Lara and Tendlya faced in the 90s.

Lara will remain the greater left handed batsman (greatest actually), whatever stats one may put forward.

 

[Sidilicious]

Cheers buddy haha. Btw even in his early years he actually averaged close to 60 against the top teams when he wasn’t keeping. Hence the move to lighten his workload and find another keeper. Obviously keeping in Tests and batting one down is a massive workload for anyone. Also if you look at the ratings he did get off to a flier before dropping off a bit. Reached a 800+ rating within a couple of years. If you compare that with Sachin’s ratings for example it took him around 5 years to get there.


Sanga vs Top 7 up to mid 2006 when not keeping (ie when he was predominantly a wk/bat)

If you are removing the stats of Sanga in his first few years when he was new to the sport, why not do the same for Sachin and Younis? Removing his stats when he was keeping is just a poor excuse.

 

[SL_Fan]

If you are removing the stats of Sanga in his first few years when he was new to the sport, why not do the same for Sachin and Younis? Removing his stats when he was keeping is just a poor excuse.

If you read the post I replied to it was specifically about his performance as a wk/bat vs specialist bat during the early years. Quite clearly he was a much better batsman with the lighter workload whether it be his early years or later on. So not sure what you are going on about. No where has any stats been removed. Earlier as well both the overall and his numbers when not keeping were posted.

 

[Ab Fan]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION], now that you are back on PP, I would like to know your views on this.

Younis is a test all-time great as proved. Views?

 

[Lefthanded]

The likes of Ponting, Dravid, and other all time greats of his era have chosen Sanga in their public all-time XIs or picked him out specially as among the best batsmen they’ve seen/played against.

I tend to rate the views of greats who have played with and against contemporary greats, views higher than spectators.

No offense intended though.

 

[Mercurial]

He is not an ATG. His average seems highly inflated, in a sense that he bashed weaker sides more. This doesn't take away his achievements, respect for him, but he is not an ATG, never considered him an ATG.

 

[Lefthanded]

A comparison with Sachin for anyone but Lara in the modern game [maybe Kohli when he retires] is foolish. Longer career, played more matches in a ten year period because he played for India, not SL who got about two-thirds of away matches compared to top Test nations in the same period.

And none of the greats who are compared to SL were all-time greats. Hence, it makes sense to judge Sanga when he played as a specialist batsman, when he played 77 Tests. Supremely fit, retired at 37-38 but most think he could've easily played for a couple more years. He was rarely injured.

Players can't choose how many Tests matches other boards want them to play abroad, so faulting him for fewer away matches is like blaming Ronald McDonald for McDonald's not having a bigger menu.

So as a specialist batsman, he averages 52 in England after 10 Tests, 2 centuries, 5 fifties.

Two tours to Australia where he only played 3 Tests combined he averages 80 including that sublime knock in Hobart where he was Lara like one-man against XI.

3 Tests/5 innings in India, averaged 48 with a hundred. Also, SL haven’t done well in IND.

4 Tests in NZ, averaged 80 with 3 centuries.

Only SA/WI is where his record is disappointing, but he only played 3 in SA, Tests averaging 30, but at least 1 century. And only 2 Tests in the WI where he only scored 1 fifty, and averaged 23.

The problem is that SL weren’t rated highly enough to tour the top Test nations often or were given as many matches as the undisputed all-time greats.

In UAE he averages 62 over 6 Tests, with 2 centuries [including a double], and 4 fifties.

In BANG his averaged is 95.

29 away Tests, 59 average. 42 home Tests, averaged almost 70.

Love YK, and don't think it's a competition but respected as YK was, but Sanga is near universally hailed in the cricketing community.

Sanga was the batsman of his generation, and few people could play as well as he did in England and Australia.

 

[Adijazz1706]

Sanga bashing minnows
Sanga vs Bangladesh 95 avg
Sachin vs Bangladesh 136 avg

Sanga as specialist bat, 86 matches 67 avg
Home 47 matches 70 avg
Away 39 matches 62 avg
Against Bangladesh
If these aren't ATG numbers, I don't know what can be

 

[Square Drive]

Sanga is an ATG.

Younis is borderline.

You can't just solely consider poor player of pace etc. but ignore things such as 4th innings stats, where Younis was a beast.

 

[AFM]

Any Pakistani would consider Sanga an ATG. Always scored mountains of runs against us. Never seen anyone so at ease against peak Ajmal.

 

[Slog]

Lol why are Indians so insistent on ensuring that Kumar Sangakarra isn't seen as an all time great!

Such insecurity!

 

[Ab Fan]

Lol why are Indians so insistent on ensuring that Kumar Sangakarra isn't seen as an all time great!

Such insecurity!

Suggest you to go through the post first.

 

[Mamoon]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION], now that you are back on PP, I would like to know your views on this.

Younis is a test all-time great as proved. Views?

Younis is not an ATG. He was a very good Test batsman but with an inflated record due to shielding himself from tough tours for many years. He barely stepped outside of Asia for nearly a decade, and his struggles against quality pace and swing bowling meant that he largely remained in the shadows of the great batsmen of his era.

He made his debut in 2000, but he could not establish himself till 2005 because he was repeatedly exposed by bowlers of the ilk of McGrath, Warne, Pollock, Donald, Ambrose, Walsh etc. He was little more than an Asad Shafiq in that era, but he filled his boots in the 2006-2009 period due to scoring big runs on flat Asian wickets, and his prowess against spin can obviously not be undermined.

I remember his debut in 2000 when he scored a hundred against Muralitharan. You could see that he had exceptional quality against spin.

He had a few good overseas tours up till 2007, but he was largely overshadowed by MoYo. A lot of people consider MoYo to be a inferior batsman, but when both of them played together, you could see that MoYo was a class above in terms of pure batsmanship.

One doesn't have to look further than Melbourne 2004, England 2006 and the Cape Town Test in 2006 to realize that MoYo was a better player. Those are the type of knocks that Younis did not have the skills to play.

However, he was a better player of spin and with a much better work ethic, but Younis was always one step below Inzamam and MoYo, and I do not care what the numbers tell me, since I watched all three. Younis came to his own only when those two retired, and he was the only Test class batsman in the country Misbah was nothing more than a decent batsman.

He missed out on the 2009-2010 overseas tour cycle, but he had his opportunity in the last 4 years of his career. However, he failed on the two tough pitches in South Africa, and he failed in 14 out of his 17 innings in England, Australia and New Zealand in 2016.

On the other hand, Sangakkara is definitely an ATG in my view. I would argue that he has surpassed Dravid and Miandad with the way he finished his career, and I would only put him behind Tendulkar and Gavaskar
as the greatest Asian batsmen. However, Kohli would be at the top of the list by the time he retires.

Younis was pretty much a poor man's Sangakkara. Almost as good against spin, but largely inferior against other types of bowling. Sangakkara has bashed minnows a lot, but he has also played some might knocks against the top teams. His innings in Australia in 2007 is alone with more than most of Younis' knocks in big countries, and there are other examples too.

 

[Ab Fan]

Younis is not an ATG. He was a very good Test batsman but with an inflated record due to shielding himself from tough tours for many years. He barely stepped outside of Asia for nearly a decade, and his struggles against quality pace and swing bowling meant that he largely remained in the shadows of the great batsmen of his era.

He made his debut in 2000, but he could not establish himself till 2005 because he was repeatedly exposed by bowlers of the ilk of McGrath, Warne, Pollock, Donald, Ambrose, Walsh etc. He was little more than an Asad Shafiq in that era, but he filled his boots in the 2006-2009 period due to scoring big runs on flat Asian wickets, and his prowess against spin can obviously not be undermined.

I remember his debut in 2000 when he scored a hundred against Muralitharan. You could see that he had exceptional quality against spin.

He had a few good overseas tours up till 2007, but he was largely overshadowed by MoYo. A lot of people consider MoYo to be a inferior batsman, but when both of them played together, you could see that MoYo was a class above in terms of pure batsmanship.

One doesn't have to look further than Melbourne 2004, England 2006 and the Cape Town Test in 2006 to realize that MoYo was a better player. Those are the type of knocks that Younis did not have the skills to play.

However, he was a better player of spin and with a much better work ethic, but Younis was always one step below Inzamam and MoYo, and I do not care what the numbers tell me, since I watched all three. Younis came to his own only when those two retired, and he was the only Test class batsman in the country Misbah was nothing more than a decent batsman.

He missed out on the 2009-2010 overseas tour cycle, but he had his opportunity in the last 4 years of his career. However, he failed on the two tough pitches in South Africa, and he failed in 14 out of his 17 innings in England, Australia and New Zealand in 2016.

On the other hand, Sangakkara is definitely an ATG in my view. I would argue that he has surpassed Dravid and Miandad with the way he finished his career, and I would only put him behind Tendulkar and Gavaskar
as the greatest Asian batsmen. However, Kohli would be at the top of the list by the time he retires.

Younis was pretty much a poor man's Sangakkara. Almost as good against spin, but largely inferior against other types of bowling. Sangakkara has bashed minnows a lot, but he has also played some might knocks against the top teams. His innings in Australia in 2007 is alone with more than most of Younis' knocks in big countries, and there are other examples too.

First of all, we should not compare Moyo to Younis Khan as far as tests are concerned. Moyo doesn't even have one-tenth of mental strength YK has.

While I do agree that Moyo's best against pace was better than YK's best against pace but yet overall, YK has delivered more or as much of a performance as Moyo has done in his whole career against pace. We should not conclude facts on basis of YK performance in last few years of his career when he was 37-38.

A young Younis Khan in his 4th series in NZ showed his ability against quality seam in Auckland with a brilliant 149 and 91 leading his team to a victory. For all the hype Yousuf gets for his inning in Melbourne 2004 which came after YK did the hardwork, he failed in every other inning of that series while in contrast, unestablished and young Younis was the best Pakistani batsmen in that series overshadowing peak Moyo . Younis also had excellent series in England 2006, New Zealand 2011 and the way he dominated Australia in 2014 tour at home was stuff of god. He averaged 156 in that series. Even on his last leg, he produced a sublime knock of 218 at Oval and drew the series.

All these excluding his mastery against spin and the fact that he was Bradmanesque in India(another big country) where Sangakkara and Moyo failed. He played the legendary Murali really well too.

Now coming back to Sangakkara, I agree he is better and a bonafide ATG(more so when we consider his added gloves work), but Younis is also a borderline ATG as far as tests are concerned and better than anyone who debuted after Sangakkara in the longer format till now(not considering Smith because he is just halfway).

And no, Sangakkara inning at Hobart doesnt make up for everything YK did outside Asia.

 

[Rahul1]

I can't believe we are still having this argument. Sangakkara is an atg, Younis is not even close to being one.

 

[Ted123]

Both Younis and Sanga are ATGs. Snaga is better in one-days and is overall better.

 

[Hawkeye]

Yes, he isn't.

 

[Cric1234]

In the second half of his career he's the 2nd best ever batsman but the first half puts a bit of doubt whether he's an ATG still is due to being a decent WK batsman to start of with and becoming the best batsman statistically of the modern era in the last 10 years.
It's like Sarfraz being a decent test batsman then becoming the best batsman after dropping the gloves such a thing hasn't been done before and it's unlikely to be repeated anytime soon.

 

[New Yorker]

Of course he is an ATG. With 938 he has the 7th highest ICC score of all time, quite a bit ahead of Sachin Tendulkar, for instance, and also ahead of YK. And yet, YK scored 100s at a quicker rate than even the great Sanga.