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Leaked email suggested Virat Kohli had “frequently” worked behind the scenes against Anil Kumble

topspin said:
No they were involved but Imran Khan was the one behind this.

Anyway even if what you are saying is true, I've exposed your double standards. Kohli is a "snake" for getting rid of Kumble, but Imran Khan accepted the captaincy role after "snakey behaviour" (to paraphrase what you would say) by his team mates including his cousin Majid. This makes him a snake as well going by your logic.

Truth is neither of them are snakes because they did it for the sake of their team. If I had green tinted specs, I guess I would also resort to snake calling towards Indian players as well. Your hatred for Kohli is actually pathetic.
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Why are you even saying things that even you, yourself are not sure about? I have read enough from credible people to know that the senior players were the ones behind Miandad's ousting.

And no, that is by no means comparable to Kohli's behavior for the simple fact that Imran wasn't even involved in Miandad's removal.

Problem with you is that you are intent on looking at things in black and white. I don't hate Kohli. On the contrary, I actually think he is the best batsman in the world and there is no one I enjoy watching bat more. But these actions exhibit a truly ego-maniacal side about his character and the lengths to which he is willing to go to ensure his grip on the team. And you know what, even that is understandable. But going behind Kumble's back, secretly sending messages to the BCCI CEO: that is low.

You can call me any number of things but atleast I'm not a blind supporter willing to condone any kind of behavior. You should also stop comparing Imran to Kohli because unlike, Kohli, Imran -- for good or bad -- was always forthright and could never be accused of going behind anyone's back.
 
topspin said:
This was never about point scoring and there's no shame of being wrong because we all have and I have no shame to say myself included.

The reason why I brought that up the Asia Cup and Sarfraz's captaincy is because you claimed my judgement was clouded when I disagreed with your claim "leave behind a dangerous precedent", which I felt was a bit rich coming from someone who has claimed time and time again that Sarfraz is a better captain. After his recent failings in the Asia Cup, drawn Aus and lost NZ tests, we know that this couldn't be any further from the truth. If you compare the two on how they lead, one leads by example and sets the right standards of fitness, practice and diet routines whereas the other has become content on CT success. So again I must emphasise this has nothing to do with point scoring.

So I would like to know why is he bound to set a bad precedent? other than an isolated incident involving Kumble, which I feel was the right thing to do by Kohli and BCCI.

We know Virat is far from perfect as captain but truth be told as Pakistan fans we would bite our hand off to have him as skipper of our side, even if he was a half decent batsman! The hate he's getting here like "he's a snake" from substandard posters is just pathetic really.
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Never called him a snake, as I don’t really care enough about Indian cricket or Virat Kohli to call him such names. Obviously the banter did go overboard before the Asia Cup, but our team couldn’t even compete with India which really shoved our comments right down our throats rather brutally.

However, I believe a captain taking on the coach and the board’s decisions, making them bow down to his demands is setting a dangerous precedent. Kohli is a once-in-a-generation player, so he is getting away with it. But we wouldn’t be kind on any other captain as we are with him here tbh. Even if decent captains such as du Plessis, Morgan, Root etc would have attempted this, we would have launched into them and so would have their own fans. You can’t just go “my way or the high-way” when you are captaining your national team on an international forum. The next Indian captain, who might not be as talented as Kohli, might attempt this and things might take an ugly turn.

I’m not saying whether Kumble or Shastri are the right choice. That is for Indian fans to decide. But Kohli should have respected the decision of the board and ofcourse four legends of Indian cricket, and not got Kumble kicked off in humiliating fashion.
 
happydavy said:
Kohli is a better and more ambitious captain than Imran and Ranatunga. Imran for all his PPers fanbase won 4 matches outside Asia in 10 years. Kohli is doing that in one year, so gimme a break about Imran's captaincy. Imran was a defensive captain who started the bad trend of putting up phatta please in Pakistan where draw was the priority than winning.
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This is the kind of response I can expect from someone who doesn't know squat about Pakistan cricket and probably just googled his record before writing this comment.

Because if you did you would know, that Imran was actually an aggressive captain. He only went defensive when he felt the side had a very low probability of winning. As captain, besides winning the WC, he won in India where most teams in the world did not win. He won in England. But perhaps most importantly, he drew in West Indies when even drawing a test match against them seemed damn near impossible. And that was a series Pakistan could very easily have won had it not been for some horrendous umpiring.

Please don't compare Kohli to Imran because Kohli has accomplished nothing as compared to him. For one thing, Imran didn't have the luxury of playing 80% of his matches as captain at home. Nor was he lucky enough to play meek oppositions like the Australian side without Smith and Warner or the feeble Windies side of today. West Indies back then were the giants of the game and teams were literally scared of facing their fast-bowlers.

I would even say, Kohli has accomplished nothing yet as captain overseas. His team lost in South Africa and got hammered in England. Winning in Australia would be a major achievement but he hasn't actually accomplished that yet.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
This is the kind of response I can expect from someone who doesn't know squat about Pakistan cricket and probably just googled his record before writing this comment.

Because if you did you would know, that Imran was actually an aggressive captain. He only went defensive when he felt the side had a very low probability of winning. As captain, besides winning the WC, he won in India where most teams in the world did not win. He won in England. But perhaps most importantly, he drew in West Indies when even drawing a test match against them seemed damn near impossible. And that was a series Pakistan could very easily have won had it not been for some horrendous umpiring.

Please don't compare Kohli to Imran because Kohli has accomplished nothing as compared to him. For one thing, Imran didn't have the luxury of playing 80% of his matches as captain at home. Nor was he lucky enough to play meek oppositions like the Australian side without Smith and Warner or the feeble Windies side of today. West Indies back then were the giants of the game and teams were literally scared of facing their fast-bowlers.

I would even say, Kohli has accomplished nothing yet as captain overseas. His team lost in South Africa and got hammered in England. Winning in Australia would be a major achievement but he hasn't actually accomplished that yet.
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For someone who claims to know so much of history should actually check the scorecard of only match Imran won in West Indies. No Richards and the bowling attack consisted of rookies with 2 bowlers having played less than 10 test matches. There have been 10s of captains who have won series and matches abroad, that's how test cricket always has been played. An Indian captain Ajit wadekar won 2 series IN West Indies and IN England in a span of 4 months, Imran cudnt dream of getting anywhere close to that achievement. So don't tell me Imran did something which was extraordinary.

Imran Khan captainrd more than 50% of his matches at home and drew more than 50% of the matches he captained and if that's not defensive captaincy then I don't know what would it be. You can keep on believing what you want to believe, in the long run stats reveal much more than they hide.
 
Some of the names that have applied for the post are Mike Hesson,Gibbs,Whatmore,owais Shah. Gary Kirsten is reportedly interested and has enquired about the job.

Edulji wants to bypass these people and appoint Powar.

Btw Mithali Raj is Captain of Indian Women ODI team. So this captain having a say card wont work for Eduljee.This Eduljee lady has single handedly destroyed bcci.
 
happydavy said:
For someone who claims to know so much of history should actually check the scorecard of only match Imran won in West Indies. No Richards and the bowling attack consisted of rookies with 2 bowlers having played less than 10 test matches. There have been 10s of captains who have won series and matches abroad, that's how test cricket always has been played. An Indian captain Ajit wadekar won 2 series IN West Indies and IN England in a span of 4 months, Imran cudnt dream of getting anywhere close to that achievement. So don't tell me Imran did something which was extraordinary.

Imran Khan captainrd more than 50% of his matches at home and drew more than 50% of the matches he captained and if that's not defensive captaincy then I don't know what would it be. You can keep on believing what you want to believe, in the long run stats reveal much more than they hide.
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History remembers Imran as an aggressive captain who drastically changed the direction of Pakistan cricket. Not everything revolves around stats even if you may have fooled yourself into believing that. Few captains have a legacy as iconic as his and any number of draws cannot change that. Infact, if anything they show that he simply hated losing. His name also happens to be mentioned in the same breath as Steve Waugh, Allan Border and Clive Lloyd and besides making Pakistan into a world-class side and evolving into the greatest all-rounder in the world he also groomed legends and led Pakistan to a WC win that seemed un-achieveable at the get-go.

So again, draws on-paper mean nothing because Imran has an enduring legacy that is immortalized by his tenure as captain. This is just like asking people who the greatest fast-bowler of all-time is. Anderson has the most wickets but people will likely mention the names of McGrath, Akram, Steyn and many more before they can even think about mentioning Anderson.

This is why legacy also holds weight and in Imran's case it actually happens to be both a great record and a very memorable legacy as captain.
 
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RedwoodOriginal said:
Why are you even saying things that even you, yourself are not sure about? I have read enough from credible people to know that the senior players were the ones behind Miandad's ousting.

And no, that is by no means comparable to Kohli's behavior for the simple fact that Imran wasn't even involved in Miandad's removal.

Problem with you is that you are intent on looking at things in black and white. I don't hate Kohli. On the contrary, I actually think he is the best batsman in the world and there is no one I enjoy watching bat more. But these actions exhibit a truly ego-maniacal side about his character and the lengths to which he is willing to go to ensure his grip on the team. And you know what, even that is understandable. But going behind Kumble's back, secretly sending messages to the BCCI CEO: that is low.

You can call me any number of things but atleast I'm not a blind supporter willing to condone any kind of behavior. You should also stop comparing Imran to Kohli because unlike, Kohli, Imran -- for good or bad -- was always forthright and could never be accused of going behind anyone's back.
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Okay since you're quick on your fingers to bring out the snake jibes let me ask you are Zaheer Abbas, Majid Khan and the other player named also snakes for what they did in Miandad axed as skipper? - or does it logic just apply to Kohli and other non-Pakistanis. This will be a good test of your impartiality because I'm not gonna buy any of the cheap talk such as "no one I enjoy watching bat more", until I can establish what you stand for.

I'll call out Kohli as I see it but in this instance I've already explained to another poster as to why Kumble wasn't the right fit for the role, if you see my earlier posts in re: Pujara. So yeah nice try calling me a blind supporter.
 
Usman Chadda said:
Never called him a snake, as I don’t really care enough about Indian cricket or Virat Kohli to call him such names. Obviously the banter did go overboard before the Asia Cup, but our team couldn’t even compete with India which really shoved our comments right down our throats rather brutally.

However, I believe a captain taking on the coach and the board’s decisions, making them bow down to his demands is setting a dangerous precedent. Kohli is a once-in-a-generation player, so he is getting away with it. But we wouldn’t be kind on any other captain as we are with him here tbh. Even if decent captains such as du Plessis, Morgan, Root etc would have attempted this, we would have launched into them and so would have their own fans. You can’t just go “my way or the high-way” when you are captaining your national team on an international forum. The next Indian captain, who might not be as talented as Kohli, might attempt this and things might take an ugly turn.

I’m not saying whether Kumble or Shastri are the right choice. That is for Indian fans to decide. But Kohli should have respected the decision of the board and ofcourse four legends of Indian cricket, and not got Kumble kicked off in humiliating fashion.
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Never implied or accused you of calling him a snake.

The problem is we can't take one example of a rift between captain and coach and make a generalisation that this sets a bad precedent for the future when you have no awareness of the circumstances.

I know for a fact that they were at opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of tactical preferences and cricketing philosophy shall we say. Now if that is the case and you can't make it work. The duo are not a good fit working together, so one inevitably has to be discarded. Why should Kohli have to give up captaincy to accomodate him as coach when he's the biggest asset in the set up?
 
This isn't really newsworthy. Everybody knows Kohli snaked Kumble. However this is sports, at the end only result matters, not emotions and feelings. As long as Kohli is successful, this is completely irrelevant. General people do not care about conflicts, they only remember victories and legacies.

With that being said, Kohli is as unlikable as it gets, I personally detest people like him and avoid at all costs. I do not hope he fails at his work (I don't believe in cursing), however if he does get in similar situation, you can blame it on karma. No sympathies for guys like him.
 
Joseph Gomes said:
This isn't really newsworthy. Everybody knows Kohli snaked Kumble. However this is sports, at the end only result matters, not emotions and feelings. As long as Kohli is successful, this is completely irrelevant. General people do not care about conflicts, they only remember victories and legacies.

With that being said, Kohli is as unlikable as it gets, I personally detest people like him and avoid at all costs. I do not hope he fails at his work (I don't believe in cursing), however if he does get in similar situation, you can blame it on karma. No sympathies for guys like him.
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He wanted another coach, so he got the change made. What's to dislike about that?
 
Joseph Gomes said:
This isn't really newsworthy. Everybody knows Kohli snaked Kumble. However this is sports, at the end only result matters, not emotions and feelings. As long as Kohli is successful, this is completely irrelevant. General people do not care about conflicts, they only remember victories and legacies.

With that being said, Kohli is as unlikable as it gets, I personally detest people like him and avoid at all costs. I do not hope he fails at his work (I don't believe in cursing), however if he does get in similar situation, you can blame it on karma. No sympathies for guys like him.
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You speak of personally disliking people “like him” when you haven’t even met the guy. On the other hand, people who have met him, speak highly of him and don’t have a negative thing to say about him.

Don’t pretend to dislike someone you already dislike under the guise of him being a “bad” guy....
 
cricketjoshila said:
Some of the names that have applied for the post are Mike Hesson,Gibbs,Whatmore,owais Shah. Gary Kirsten is reportedly interested and has enquired about the job.

Edulji wants to bypass these people and appoint Powar.

Btw Mithali Raj is Captain of Indian Women ODI team. So this captain having a say card wont work for Eduljee.This Eduljee lady has single handedly destroyed bcci.
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How exactly are the match fixer Gibbs and two bit nobody owais Shah better than powar, ofcourse if someone like a Kirsten or whatmore are interested give it to them ahead of Powar.
 
Sachin136 said:
He wanted another coach, so he got the change made. What's to dislike about that?
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Kohli took underhanded methods to dispose Kumble, since he couldn't do it fairly. I don't care as long as Kohli achieves wins for the team. But what goes around, comes around. Kohli should be wary when he loses his touch as a captain, or loses his form.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
History remembers Imran as an aggressive captain who drastically changed the direction of Pakistan cricket. Not everything revolves around stats even if you may have fooled yourself into believing that. Few captains have a legacy as iconic as his and any number of draws cannot change that. Infact, if anything they show that he simply hated losing. His name also happens to be mentioned in the same breath as Steve Waugh, Allan Border and Clive Lloyd and besides making Pakistan into a world-class side and evolving into the greatest all-rounder in the world he also groomed legends and led Pakistan to a WC win that seemed un-achieveable at the get-go.

So again, draws on-paper mean nothing because Imran has an enduring legacy that is immortalized by his tenure as captain. This is just like asking people who the greatest fast-bowler of all-time is. Anderson has the most wickets but people will likely mention the names of McGrath, Akram, Steyn and many more before they can even think about mentioning Anderson.

This is why legacy also holds weight and in Imran's case it actually happens to be both a great record and a very memorable legacy as captain.
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Ok so when stats doesn't support you, they doesn't matter. He is legend for you and yes he won a WC92 for Pakistan but stats clearly shows he is an avg captain. When it comes to mentioned in the same breath as Steve Waugh, Allan Border and Clive Lloyd then sorry none of them considered him in their best test X11 a post mention in PP thread itself. And yes stats matter even though they don't support you.
 
I think Kohli is an average captain but when you compare him to Sarfraz he looks the next coming of Brearly.

The way Williamson declared with only a lead of 273 runs and gave Pakistan an outside sniff of winning is probably the sweet spot of checking ingenuity as a captain and had "Williamson" been captaining India, India would have won both the tours of SA and England.

BUT one thing about Kohli which stands out is his desire to get better and learn.

I can almost guarantee, Kohli will improve as a captain in the next 2 years to establish a dream legacy unless something drastically wrong happens.

The reason BCCI probably gave him a rope is because they want to see what his vision is for the team. But trust me, he won't stick around like Sarfraz iand BCCI will sack him long before he comes to our captain's level.
 
Mr. Cricket said:
Ok so when stats doesn't support you, they doesn't matter. He is legend for you and yes he won a WC92 for Pakistan but stats clearly shows he is an avg captain. When it comes to mentioned in the same breath as Steve Waugh, Allan Border and Clive Lloyd then sorry none of them considered him in their best test X11 a post mention in PP thread itself. So yes stats matter even though they don't support you.
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Who remembered Ajit Wandekar until he passed away earlier this summer? Yet he won a series in ENG and WI's in the same year.

Imran might not have been an all-conquering captain but he is widely regarded as the greatest Pakistani captain and his only contemporary in Asia might be Ganguly.

He led a team of bickering and back-biting semi-politician cricketers and ensured a fit and able unit to compete against everyone. He led them to their first series wins in ENG and IND. His was the only team that competed against the WI and drew three series home and away.

He masterminded the 92' WC Cup victory, brought forward Wasim, Waqar, Mushtaq, Inzimam, Anwar, set the standard practice of reverse swing in order and transcended cricket with influence that catered its way into high society.

He had his shortcomings; lost a Test to SL, had a decent W/L record (keep in mind this was the 80's when draws were a lot more common than nowadays), and ball-tampering accusations later on.

His legacy on cricket can be seen today where he essentially used it as a platform for politics, something others are trying to follow.
 
True , he can do better in Eng and SA but again he learns from his mistake and this makes him best . I follow him from his 1st match and he improve a lot with time and always learn from his mistake. I bet he will become one of the best captain of India.
 
Mr. Cricket said:
True , he can do better in Eng and SA but again he learns from his mistake and this makes him best . I follow him from his 1st match and he improve a lot with time and always learn from his mistake. I bet he will become one of the best captain of India.
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He already IS the best captain of India only trailing Ganguly.

He could have easily won the SA series if he swallowed his ego whole and selected the right players.

The ENG series showcased that although the gap between the two sides was small, it nonetheless proved to be enough to ensure a 1-4 drubbing.

This AUS series would be a great achievement but it will only cover the tracks as I believe he could be capable of so much more as a leader. If he learns to accept not everyone is as talented or admires the game as much as he does, the sky is the limit for him.
 
nah MS dhoni is still better than him with WC,WC T20 and Champion Trophy win. Kohli just started , he has 4-5 year to set his legacy. And I believe he is not egoist but rather arrogant, it's your hate which can't differentiate .
 
Kumble already knew this. Do you think Kumble would have been so naive to think that Kohli would have ousted him without any support from BCCI management? Of course not. And would Kohli have gotten all this support from BCCI leadership without talking to them? And when he spoke to BCCI leadership about his concerns, right or wrong, should he have copied Kumble as well?

C'mon, at least think analytically before getting a thread to 2 pages and going!!!!
 
TheSensible said:
You speak of personally disliking people “like him” when you haven’t even met the guy. On the other hand, people who have met him, speak highly of him and don’t have a negative thing to say about him.

Don’t pretend to dislike someone you already dislike under the guise of him being a “bad” guy....
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10000 times THIS.

Lot of people are just hating him, just for sack off hating him without much substance. You hate someone personally this much when that person has destroyed your life.

People are just too much behind screen.
 
India is doing a lot better under Ravi Shastri compared to Anil Kumble. Also I don’t know if it’s similar like Bangladesh, the captain has more say than the Coach. Kohli is a legendary batsman who is also a World Cup hero, He knows how to run his team.
 
ManFan said:
Who remembered Ajit Wandekar until he passed away earlier this summer? Yet he won a series in ENG and WI's in the same year.

Imran might not have been an all-conquering captain but he is widely regarded as the greatest Pakistani captain and his only contemporary in Asia might be Ganguly.

He led a team of bickering and back-biting semi-politician cricketers and ensured a fit and able unit to compete against everyone. He led them to their first series wins in ENG and IND. His was the only team that competed against the WI and drew three series home and away.

He masterminded the 92' WC Cup victory, brought forward Wasim, Waqar, Mushtaq, Inzimam, Anwar, set the standard practice of reverse swing in order and transcended cricket with influence that catered its way into high society.

He had his shortcomings; lost a Test to SL, had a decent W/L record (keep in mind this was the 80's when draws were a lot more common than nowadays), and ball-tampering accusations later on.

His legacy on cricket can be seen today where he essentially used it as a platform for politics, something others are trying to follow.
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Boss u can remember people for wotever reasons u want to, the rest of the world doesn't have to think like you. I am sure Pakistanis like you hold Imran in highest esteem but that doesn't mean others have to agree to it. That doesn't me I don't have biases, I rate Kapil more than Imran because what Kapil achieved at 25, Imran did at 37. But to objective fans, performances matter more than poetry, and Kohli as a captain, has already achieved more in test cricket than imran. Now u can out any spin around it, facts won't change
 
happydavy said:
Boss u can remember people for wotever reasons u want to, the rest of the world doesn't have to think like you. I am sure Pakistanis like you hold Imran in highest esteem but that doesn't mean others have to agree to it. That doesn't me I don't have biases, I rate Kapil more than Imran because what Kapil achieved at 25, Imran did at 37. But to objective fans, performances matter more than poetry, and Kohli as a captain, has already achieved more in test cricket than imran. Now u can out any spin around it, facts won't change
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Kapil won the world cup with a really weak team, quite possible the weakest ever team to lift a world cup
Imran's team had several ATG Pakistani players like Wasim, Miandad, Imran, Inzamam, Sohail..
 
Who cares as long as the results keep coming in? It’s all unnecessary drama.
 
Oligochaetes said:
Kapil won the world cup with a really weak team, quite possible the weakest ever team to lift a world cup
Imran's team had several ATG Pakistani players like Wasim, Miandad, Imran, Inzamam, Sohail..
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Inzamam was an ATG in 92'? He isn't even an ATG now. Amir Sohail an ATG? Seriously?
 
Muhammad10 said:
Wait, what? Never heard of this before. Got a reliable source?
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For Pakistan's supporters, still savouring their team's success in the West Indies earlier in the year, there was disappointment at Imran Khan's decision not to play in the series as a protest over the timing of the tour. In his view, the weather in Pakistan at that time of the year was too hot for cricket.
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http://www.espncricinfo.com/wisdenalmanack/content/story/153519.html

Before the series had started, and eventually lost amid all of the controversy, was an equally unflattering look for Pakistan cricket when superstar captain Imran Khan basically took one look at the weather forecast and hit the snooze button, bypassing the Australian visit altogether. Miandad felt he could handle the heat and was temporarily handed the captaincy.
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https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2014/oct/28/the-joy-of-six-australian-tours-of-pakistan

The great players can get away with a lot. A lesser player would have been in trouble for pulling a stunt like this, but not Imran.

I am not condoning this behavior, but players like Imran, Kohli etc. have earned the right to be bigger than the team, a cliched statement that does not apply to them.
 
Kumble reminds me of Waqar as a coach - A power hungry coach who wants a Yes man to be his on field captain. Fortunately for India they have the greatest batsmen ever Virat kohli against a guy a like kumble. Its easy to choose between the two but kumble will be supported by ex-players and jealous SRT fans.
 
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aukhan said:
Kumble reminds me of Waqar as a coach - A power hungry coach who wants a Yes man to be his on field captain. Fortunately for India they have the greatest batsmen ever Virat kohli against a guy a like kumble. Its easy to choose between the two but kumble will be supported by ex-players and jealous SRT fans.
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If you like kohli so be it. There is no need to compare kumble with anyone.
His character was of the high standard that he did not utter a single word on social media or in press.
 
Hitman said:
Inzamam was an ATG in 92'? He isn't even an ATG now. Amir Sohail an ATG? Seriously?
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I think the point is simple that Kapil's achievement of winning the world cup is perhaps bigger than Imran's because Kapil did it with a much weaker team and he defeated WI twice in the WC while Imran lost to half the teams he played against in the WC. It's not about putting anyone down or not to say one can't have favorites, but few PPers want that everyone should agree whatever delusional image they have of Imran Khan. Imran was a great player and may be a great captain from Pakistan's perspective but there have been several better captains who have achieved significantly more than Imran as a captain.
 
aukhan said:
Kumble reminds me of Waqar as a coach - A power hungry coach who wants a Yes man to be his on field captain. Fortunately for India they have the greatest batsmen ever Virat kohli against a guy a like kumble. Its easy to choose between the two but kumble will be supported by ex-players and jealous SRT fans.
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Totally agree with this assessment.
 
Usman Chadda said:
Never called him a snake, as I don’t really care enough about Indian cricket or Virat Kohli to call him such names. Obviously the banter did go overboard before the Asia Cup, but our team couldn’t even compete with India which really shoved our comments right down our throats rather brutally.

However, I believe a captain taking on the coach and the board’s decisions, making them bow down to his demands is setting a dangerous precedent. Kohli is a once-in-a-generation player, so he is getting away with it. But we wouldn’t be kind on any other captain as we are with him here tbh. Even if decent captains such as du Plessis, Morgan, Root etc would have attempted this, we would have launched into them and so would have their own fans. You can’t just go “my way or the high-way” when you are captaining your national team on an international forum. The next Indian captain, who might not be as talented as Kohli, might attempt this and things might take an ugly turn.

I’m not saying whether Kumble or Shastri are the right choice. That is for Indian fans to decide. But Kohli should have respected the decision of the board and ofcourse four legends of Indian cricket, and not got Kumble kicked off in humiliating fashion.
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Very good post. Some posters are pointing out that Imran did this too but being purely objective what Imran did wasn't good long term for Pakistan cricket either. He set a precedent which Wasim tried to emulate and we ended up with a decade of in fighting and underperformance as a result because of which Pakistan cricket suffered. No captain should be given carte blanche as to what to do with a team. There should always be checks and balances and Kohli shouldn't be blindly supported.
 
happydavy said:
I think the point is simple that Kapil's achievement of winning the world cup is perhaps bigger than Imran's because Kapil did it with a much weaker team and he defeated WI twice in the WC while Imran lost to half the teams he played against in the WC. It's not about putting anyone down or not to say one can't have favorites, but few PPers want that everyone should agree whatever delusional image they have of Imran Khan. Imran was a great player and may be a great captain from Pakistan's perspective but there have been several better captains who have achieved significantly more than Imran as a captain.
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You forgot to mention the main factor how Pakistan won that World Cup ..... Rain Gods. India won that World Cup without any external factors favoring them, and defeated the then defending champion West Indies twice in that tournament.
 
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topspin said:
Okay since you're quick on your fingers to bring out the snake jibes let me ask you are Zaheer Abbas, Majid Khan and the other player named also snakes for what they did in Miandad axed as skipper? - or does it logic just apply to Kohli and other non-Pakistanis. This will be a good test of your impartiality because I'm not gonna buy any of the cheap talk such as "no one I enjoy watching bat more", until I can establish what you stand for.

I'll call out Kohli as I see it but in this instance I've already explained to another poster as to why Kumble wasn't the right fit for the role, if you see my earlier posts in re: Pujara. So yeah nice try calling me a blind supporter.
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They clearly were. Zaheer and Majid in particular were great batsmen but that kind of jealousy and behavior by senior players was very poor to see. They wanted the captaincy for the wrong reasons.
 
Mr. Cricket said:
Ok so when stats doesn't support you, they doesn't matter. He is legend for you and yes he won a WC92 for Pakistan but stats clearly shows he is an avg captain. When it comes to mentioned in the same breath as Steve Waugh, Allan Border and Clive Lloyd then sorry none of them considered him in their best test X11 a post mention in PP thread itself. And yes stats matter even though they don't support you.
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Imran Khan was easily the biggest sportsman to come out of South Asia, just ask anyone who was alive during that era: Indian, Pakistani or otherwise. And almost all greats speak of him as the greatest all-rounder the game has ever seen along with Garfield Sobers. I've heard ex-Australian legends talk about how good a captain he was and there are plenty of videos on YouTube of these short interviews. So only you and a few others Indian posters are the ones oblivious of his enduring legacy as a cricketer.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
They clearly were. Zaheer and Majid in particular were great batsmen but that kind of jealousy and behavior by senior players was very poor to see. They wanted the captaincy for the wrong reasons.
Click to expand...

Ok fair enough, I'm glad you're consistent with your reasoning.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Imran Khan was easily the biggest sportsman to come out of South Asia, just ask anyone who was alive during that era: Indian, Pakistani or otherwise. And almost all greats speak of him as the greatest all-rounder the game has ever seen along with Garfield Sobers. I've heard ex-Australian legends talk about how good a captain he was and there are plenty of videos on YouTube of these short interviews. So only you and a few others Indian posters are the ones oblivious of his enduring legacy as a cricketer.
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He was named captain in Dickie Bird's (ATG umpire) World XI. 4 drawn series in WI against possibly the greatest team to have graced the sport. Yes he has loads of draws because it was an era of drawn test matches. It is unfair to compare his record statistically with more modern captains, by that logic Misbah in tests > Imran Khan in tests but we know it doesn't work like that.

Any stats bully can look at someone's captaincy record and come up with their ignorant conclusions when they have no awareness of the context.

Imran Khan was without a doubt in tests the greatest Captain to come from Asia. In LOIs it is Dhoni.

I predict Kohli to match IK once he has won a WC and go on to lead India to a new golden era which will begin after they've mauled the Aussies at their backyard, creating history as the first Asian side to win on Aussie soil.
 
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topspin said:
He was named captain in Dickie Bird's (ATG umpire) World XI. 4 drawn series in WI against possibly the greatest team to have graced the sport. Yes he has loads of draws because it was an era of drawn test matches. It is unfair to compare his record statistically with more modern captains, by that logic Misbah in tests > Imran Khan in tests but we know it doesn't work like that.

Any stats bully can look at someone's captaincy record and come up with their ignorant conclusions when they have no awareness of the context.

Imran Khan was without a doubt in tests the greatest Captain to come from Asia. In LOIs it is Dhoni.

I predict Kohli to match IK once he has won a WC and go on to lead India to a new golden era which will begin after they've mauled the Aussies at their backyard, creating history as the first Asian side to win on Aussie soil.
Click to expand...

Kohli has to win a WC and series in England and South Africa to be considered among the greats. He has the best opportunity any Asian team has had to win in Australia which he should not squander. But I think he should be hopeful of accomplishing these goals with time because India are playing more cricket than ever, the 2023 WC is in their backyard and Kohli also has imo the best Indian bowling attack yet. I know the bar is very low but the current attack has the potential to take wickets on any surface, something past Indian attacks have not.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Imran Khan was easily the biggest sportsman to come out of South Asia, just ask anyone who was alive during that era: Indian, Pakistani or otherwise. And almost all greats speak of him as the greatest all-rounder the game has ever seen along with Garfield Sobers. I've heard ex-Australian legends talk about how good a captain he was and there are plenty of videos on YouTube of these short interviews. So only you and a few others Indian posters are the ones oblivious of his enduring legacy as a cricketer.
Click to expand...

I am not dimisnishing anyone leagacy . You can see stats and it's shows his performace as captain. If he is truely best as u metion then evry India should know about his legacy. Most Indian knew and respect Akram as compare to Imran. We should prioratize stats rather than emotion . He is to pakistan like sachin to us , God on their own country.
 
Kohli should find a way to get on with whoever the coach is. He is representing India so he shouldn't worry about the coach. But at the end of the day you know BCCI will back him over any coach.
 
Mr. Cricket said:
I am not dimisnishing anyone leagacy . You can see stats and it's shows his performace as captain. If he is truely best as u metion then evry India should know about his legacy. Most Indian knew and respect Akram as compare to Imran. We should prioratize stats rather than emotion . He is to pakistan like sachin to us , God on their own country.
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So you speak for all Indians now?

Also, you're wrong. Imran is and was way bigger here than Wasim ever was.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
So you speak for all Indians now?

Also, you're wrong. Imran is and was way bigger here than Wasim ever was.
Click to expand...

I am talking about the new generation and people awareness. Yes, Wasim Akram is more respected and known in India than Imran(not sure after he become PM).

I never say Imran is not bigger than Wasim in your country. Read my post I say he is a godly figure in Pakistan as Sachin in India.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
So you speak for all Indians now?

Also, you're wrong. Imran is and was way bigger here than Wasim ever was.
Click to expand...

Well u seem to believe that u speak for entire south asia, so what's the harm if someone speaks for entire India? For most indians and rest of the world, Wasim > Imran as player and Kohli > Imran as captain! Now you have 2 options - you could cry your lungs out that your favorite Imran not being recognised or simply accept the reality that people could have different opinions about cricketers, but it shouldn't bother you.
 
The problem is the person who leaked this - they should be taken to task.
 
happydavy said:
Well u seem to believe that u speak for entire south asia, so what's the harm if someone speaks for entire India? For most indians and rest of the world, Wasim > Imran as player and Kohli > Imran as captain! Now you have 2 options - you could cry your lungs out that your favorite Imran not being recognised or simply accept the reality that people could have different opinions about cricketers, but it shouldn't bother you.
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I can only laugh at your misconceptions and lack of awareness. Most people wouldn't even count Kohli as the best captain in the world right now. As captain, he is a poor man's Ponting. Has the benefit of captaining a pretty good side which masks his tactical deficiencies but there are still times when he comes across as very tactically inert. I'm sure he will become a better captain in time but rn du Plessis and Williamson are far better captains of their respective teams.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I can only laugh at your misconceptions and lack of awareness. Most people wouldn't even count Kohli as the best captain in the world right now. As captain, he is a poor man's Ponting. Has the benefit of captaining a pretty good side which masks his tactical deficiencies but there are still times when he comes across as very tactically inert. I'm sure he will become a better captain in time but rn du Plessis and Williamson are far better captains of their respective teams.
Click to expand...

Yes same du Plessis whose is defeated by kohli team in ODI by 5-1 and in T20 2-1 in their home ground.
By going with your way that kohli has advantage of having good side than kapil dev is GOAT captain bcz he won us WC with weakest Indian side whereas imran has good player in team when they won WC.
 
All those criticizing Kohli need to understand that it's not a fair world where everyone is treated equally. There are always alpha males like Kohli who are treated differently because what they achieve is significantly superior to others. And it's not restricted to cricket, it happens in all professions. In competitive streams like law or banking, star performers are given privileges not meant for others and that's bcoz a law firm or a bank works on the fees that they make and not whether employees are treated equally. The fees in cricket is victories or runs or wickets and the ones who earn higher fees will have a disproportionately bigger say.

If Kohli doesn't want Kumble then regardless of how unfair it may seem, Kumble has to go. And mind you, Kohli is not some random brat, you could criticize his batting or captaincy but you can't question his dedication or motivation to win. Plus there's a generation gap between how Kumble and Kohli think. When Kumble became captain in 2007, he had released a vision document for team and one of the 8 points in the document was - "If a senior player is rested or is injured and a junior player who replaces him scores a century, then junior player will still be required to sit out once the senior player is fit". This was his mindset about seniors and juniors as it's some family business where the elder son will get the throne. It just shows how fundamentally different those 2 people were, and one of them had to go. I don't like Shastri one bit and Kohli for his own good needs a better coach, but I am still ok with useless Shastri (Chief Happiness Manager) than headmaster Kumble.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I can only laugh at your misconceptions and lack of awareness. Most people wouldn't even count Kohli as the best captain in the world right now. As captain, he is a poor man's Ponting. Has the benefit of captaining a pretty good side which masks his tactical deficiencies but there are still times when he comes across as very tactically inert. I'm sure he will become a better captain in time but rn du Plessis and Williamson are far better captains of their respective teams.
Click to expand...

You should laugh because u seemed quite worked up in your previous posts. Kohli may be poor man's Ponting but Imran was a poorer man's Kohli. 20% overall win record and 4 victories outside Asia in 10 years of captaincy, is something that you could be proud of but pls don't expect others to join your party.
 
I hope all these kohli is a great captain folk are watching the game and how kohli and shastri's selections have lost us the game before lunch on first day, poor man's Ponting more like poor man's tendulkar.
 
Mr. Cricket said:
Yes same du Plessis whose is defeated by kohli team in ODI by 5-1 and in T20 2-1 in their home ground.
By going with your way that kohli has advantage of having good side than kapil dev is GOAT captain bcz he won us WC with weakest Indian side whereas imran has good player in team when they won WC.
Click to expand...

du Plessis played only the first match of that series, he was injured and Aiden Markram captained South Africa in his absence. But yes, du Plessis was captain when South Africa ran over India in the test series.
 
We wanted Anil Kumble to continue but he wanted to quit after his fallout with skipper Virat Kohli: Laxman

VISAKHAPATNAM: BCCI's Cricket Advisory Committee member and batting legend VVS Laxman Friday said the their panel wanted Anil Kumble to continue as India's coach but the former captain was bent on quitting after his fallout with skipper Virat Kohli last year.

Reflecting on the tumultuous phase that gripped Indian cricket during last year's Champions Trophy, Laxman said the episode left a "bitter taste in the mouth".

"I don't think Kohli crossed the line. We at the CAC thought Anil should continue as coach but he thought the right decision was to quit and move ahead. It left a bitter taste in the mouth," Laxman said at the 'India Today South Conclave'.

The CAC, comprising Laxman, Sachin Tendulkar and Sourav Ganguly, picked Kumble as national coach in 2016.

However, the appointment didn't quite work out as Kumble and Kohli's difference of opinions spiralled into a full-blown public fallout which culminated into Kumble stepping down.

The former captain went on to say that his relationship with Kohli had become untenable.

"What I did not like was the way he was getting bad press during the Champions Trophy. The CAC wanted Anil to continue and the entire episode was very unfortunate, Laxman said.

"I always tell people CAC are not marriage counsellors. We were tasked with selecting the best possible job. We did a very elaborate process - unfortunately, Virat Kohli and Anil Kumble did not work out," he added.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...r-virat-kohli-laxman/articleshow/67194268.cms
 
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