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Comparison between Babar Azam, Sachin Tendulkar & Virat Kohli at the same point in their ODI careers

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Comparison between Babar Azam, Sachin Tendulkar & Virat Kohli at the same point in their ODI careers

Touted as a challenger to the ‘Fab Four’, the 28-year-old Babar has made 1,454 runs in 21 ODIs at an average of 76.52 with six hundreds since the start of 2020. No other batter from a Full Member country has made more runs or hundreds in this period, and no one else with at least 200 ODI runs averages more. His current form is an extension of his consistency as he vies for a place among the legends – how close is he to the two greatest ODI batters from India?

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*Babar turned 28 in October last year. This article takes into account Tendulkar’s and Kohli’s stats till they turned 29.

In terms of average, Babar is ahead. However, what is interesting is the number of games that Kohli, currently 34, and Tendulkar played before they turned 29 – more than double and triple that of Babar, respectively.

Pakistan’s calendar is not as packed as India’s, and the fact that Kohli juggled the demands of all three formats along with the IPL, maintained full fitness and averaged over 55 in ODIs is commendable. He also made 32 hundreds – getting to the landmark once every six innings. Babar has taken fewer innings for a century – he gets to three digits once every 5.4 innings.

Tendulkar, on the other hand, belonged to a different generation where run-scoring was arguably tougher and with average innings scores not as high as they are currently. Tendulkar, by virtue of debuting earlier, played nearly 300 ODIs by the age of 28, scoring a hundred every nine innings. Tendulkar also took his time to find his feet, with a promotion to opening bringing about a dramatic change in fortune. His first century came in his 79th game. From that point until his 29th birthday, his century per innings ratio is only slightly below Kohli’s.


Thus, by the age of 28 Babar surges ahead with regards to average and the number of innings taken for a hundred but a lighter schedule, which allows him more time to mend his body after tiring tours, is a factor that cannot be ignored either.

How Babar vs Sachin vs Kohli compare after the same number of years in ODIs
Tendulkar made his debut when he was 16 years old and gained huge experience in the next 12 years. Babar made his debut when he was 20 and Kohli when he was 19. When calculating the stats of the players till the age of 28, the important factor of additional years of experience on the circuit was not considered. So, we take into account the records after a certain number of years as well.

Babar has currently played close to eight years of ODI cricket, making his debut against Zimbabwe in May 2015. He averaged 38.33 in his first year before his average rose and he started getting noticed by the world. We have considered Kohli and Tendulkar’s records exactly eight years after their respective ODI debuts.

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Once again, the difference in the number of games between the two India batters and Babar is evident. Tendulkar’s average was below 40 for nearly the first half of his career. Tendulkar made 12 hundreds in his first eight years – and added 37 more till he retired.

As far as Babar v Kohli is concerned, the former edges ahead as far as the average is concerned, scoring nearly 10 runs more in every game. Babar also manages a fifty-plus knock every 1.8 innings, as compared to Kohli, who took 2.8 innings for a knock of 50 or more.

In the first eight years of their careers, Babar averaged 79 at home in the 15 games that he played in Pakistan and 55.67 when touring (including neutral venues). Tendulkar averaged 45.47 at home in his first eight years, which fell to 34.61 away. Kohli, on the other hand, scored at 54.69 in India and maintained an average of 49.63 away.

In run chases, Babar’s average of 58.15 with seven hundreds in 50 innings is astounding, but Kohli takes the lead here, averaging 61.22 with 15 hundreds in the first eight years, in 91 innings. Tendulkar, on the other hand, averaged 39.01 in run chases till 18 August 1997, with five of his 12 hundreds coming in the second innings.

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Babar has the highest aggregate after 93 innings in the history of ODI cricket. Michael Bevan has the highest batting average after 93 innings – 62.21 – and Babar is not far behind. No other batter has made more hundreds than Babar after 93 innings.

Kohli has the third-most number of centuries after 93 innings – 13 – with Hashim Amla in second place. Only five batters have made more than 4,000 runs and have an average of over 50 after 93 innings (Babar and Kohli are joined by Amla, Joe Root and Vivian Richards) and undoubtedly it is a reputed list to be a part of. The fact that Babar has managed to surpass the legends of the game speaks volumes about his potential.

Tendulkar found the going tough in his initial days as an ODI batter, but there are numerous other factors to consider when taking his feats into consideration.

Source Wisden
 
The difference in number of ODIs is staggering - ODI cricket peaked from 90s to early 2010s, but T20 cricket has completely sabotaged the format over the last 5-6 years.

This has certainly hurt Babar because ODIs are comfortably his best format, he should have had 150+ matches by now which means a lot more hundreds by this stage of his career.
 
Top 5 Asian ODI batsman of all-time:

1. Sachin Tendulkar
2. Virat Kohli
3. MS Dhoni
4. Rohit Sharma/Kumar Sangakkara
5. Babar Azam

Honourable mention - Jayasuriya, Anwar, Z Abbas, Yuvraj, Inzy
 
Touted as a challenger to the ‘Fab Four’, the 28-year-old Babar has made 1,454 runs in 21 ODIs at an average of 76.52 with six hundreds since the start of 2020. No other batter from a Full Member country has made more runs or hundreds in this period, and no one else with at least 200 ODI runs averages more. His current form is an extension of his consistency as he vies for a place among the legends – how close is he to the two greatest ODI batters from India?

BNLoVr2.png


*Babar turned 28 in October last year. This article takes into account Tendulkar’s and Kohli’s stats till they turned 29.

In terms of average, Babar is ahead. However, what is interesting is the number of games that Kohli, currently 34, and Tendulkar played before they turned 29 – more than double and triple that of Babar, respectively.

Pakistan’s calendar is not as packed as India’s, and the fact that Kohli juggled the demands of all three formats along with the IPL, maintained full fitness and averaged over 55 in ODIs is commendable. He also made 32 hundreds – getting to the landmark once every six innings. Babar has taken fewer innings for a century – he gets to three digits once every 5.4 innings.

Tendulkar, on the other hand, belonged to a different generation where run-scoring was arguably tougher and with average innings scores not as high as they are currently. Tendulkar, by virtue of debuting earlier, played nearly 300 ODIs by the age of 28, scoring a hundred every nine innings. Tendulkar also took his time to find his feet, with a promotion to opening bringing about a dramatic change in fortune. His first century came in his 79th game. From that point until his 29th birthday, his century per innings ratio is only slightly below Kohli’s.


Thus, by the age of 28 Babar surges ahead with regards to average and the number of innings taken for a hundred but a lighter schedule, which allows him more time to mend his body after tiring tours, is a factor that cannot be ignored either.

How Babar vs Sachin vs Kohli compare after the same number of years in ODIs
Tendulkar made his debut when he was 16 years old and gained huge experience in the next 12 years. Babar made his debut when he was 20 and Kohli when he was 19. When calculating the stats of the players till the age of 28, the important factor of additional years of experience on the circuit was not considered. So, we take into account the records after a certain number of years as well.

Babar has currently played close to eight years of ODI cricket, making his debut against Zimbabwe in May 2015. He averaged 38.33 in his first year before his average rose and he started getting noticed by the world. We have considered Kohli and Tendulkar’s records exactly eight years after their respective ODI debuts.

rMBBTNK.png


Once again, the difference in the number of games between the two India batters and Babar is evident. Tendulkar’s average was below 40 for nearly the first half of his career. Tendulkar made 12 hundreds in his first eight years – and added 37 more till he retired.

As far as Babar v Kohli is concerned, the former edges ahead as far as the average is concerned, scoring nearly 10 runs more in every game. Babar also manages a fifty-plus knock every 1.8 innings, as compared to Kohli, who took 2.8 innings for a knock of 50 or more.

In the first eight years of their careers, Babar averaged 79 at home in the 15 games that he played in Pakistan and 55.67 when touring (including neutral venues). Tendulkar averaged 45.47 at home in his first eight years, which fell to 34.61 away. Kohli, on the other hand, scored at 54.69 in India and maintained an average of 49.63 away.

In run chases, Babar’s average of 58.15 with seven hundreds in 50 innings is astounding, but Kohli takes the lead here, averaging 61.22 with 15 hundreds in the first eight years, in 91 innings. Tendulkar, on the other hand, averaged 39.01 in run chases till 18 August 1997, with five of his 12 hundreds coming in the second innings.

wa6fGMv.png


Babar has the highest aggregate after 93 innings in the history of ODI cricket. Michael Bevan has the highest batting average after 93 innings – 62.21 – and Babar is not far behind. No other batter has made more hundreds than Babar after 93 innings.

Kohli has the third-most number of centuries after 93 innings – 13 – with Hashim Amla in second place. Only five batters have made more than 4,000 runs and have an average of over 50 after 93 innings (Babar and Kohli are joined by Amla, Joe Root and Vivian Richards) and undoubtedly it is a reputed list to be a part of. The fact that Babar has managed to surpass the legends of the game speaks volumes about his potential.

Tendulkar found the going tough in his initial days as an ODI batter, but there are numerous other factors to consider when taking his feats into consideration.

Source Wisden

If Babar had played as many games as the others, there would be no debate
 
Didn't realise he had an ODI average of 59!!

Wow!

I guess its because of all the T20s in the last 2 years that I never looked at this
 
The lack of ODI cricket will hurt Babar's legacy. A shame because he could have gone down as statistically the best. I hope he is able to near 10K by the end of his career. Has the potential to have way more than 10K but Pakistan is too obsessed with T20 cricket and there are leagues happening all the time now. Cricket is not the same anymore.
 
The format where he is charging toward ATG status.

Can still do it in t20s, but needs to change up his strategy and approach in it big time.
 
Kohli was surrounded by other great players. So did Tendulkar.

Babar has to do the heavy lifting on his own (his teammates are generally inconsistent).

So, that's one disadvantage Babar has.
 
It's actually incredible that Kohli improved his stats from this point onwards and was averaging 60 from 200+ innings striking at over 90.
 
Undoubtedly, securing victories in tournaments holds significant importance, but it's also crucial to acknowledge the significance of individual skill and performance. Babar Azam, for instance, is already making substantial strides in achieving success through his exceptional individual capabilities.
 
Levels ahead of the rest, Babar is vastly superior to any Batsman India have ever produced in ODI’s especially
Stats dont always tell the truth. By 29 Kohli:

- had scored a unbeaten 100 while having to chase down 320 in 40 overs.
- had scored 2 100s both of which scored against AUS taking only around 55 balls for his century while chasing mammoth 350+ scores. Was unbeaten in both matches with IND winnin them.
- had scored 183 against pakistan while successfully chasing 330 runs
- Kohli had 2 100s against pakistan. One of which was a WC 100.

Babar can only dream about some of these feats. Babar would find it difficult to score a 50-55 ball 100 in t20 let alone ODI. Chasing 320 down in 40 overs is another remarkable feat that requires skill and nerves.
 
Tendulkar from a different era, Kohli and Babar from a different era with changed rules. That way even Imam Ul Haq averages more than Viv Richards.
 
Babar has got runs , but has not created the impace Kohli made.

This WC babar can reach that level but he needs to fire his team to Finals at least and score big runs.
 
Tom Moody:

“He [Babar] does remind me very much of Virat Kohli, the way he goes about his business. He plays authentic cricket shots. He seems to understand, read the game very well, which Kohli has done for over a decade. He is a good chaser as well like Virat Kohli has proven to be over many many years. So, there's so much likeness between the two and I wouldn't go as far as saying that Virat is gonna have a better Asia Cup than Babar Azam, but they both can have equal pressure on them and it's gonna be a delight to watch them both bat because they are box office,”

“Well, the captaincy for any captain in any Asian team is always a very challenging one. The microscope is very much on every single captain and every single move and suddenly you've got so many experts out there when you do make a move that maybe not be the right move at the time but I think that he's still dealing with the growing pressures of captaincy there's no question of that.

"So, you know, he'll only continue to get better. He is also got around him, I mentioned the experience of this Pakistan side now he's also got a lot of experience around him and a lot of players that have been in captaincy roles whether that be in franchise cricket or in their domestic cricket, so he's got a lot of strong leadership pillars around which I'm sure he'll draw upon,”

Sanjay Manjrekar:

“Yes, both very good players. One obviously in his prime younger but coming to these kind of platform we want to say Virat Kohli and see with the format that we have here not the T20 format, Asia Cup this time round you might just see a bit Babar Azam and maybe show his place as well"
 
Most Centuries with 100+ SR in their 1st 19 ODI Centuries

19 - AB Devilliers
15 - David Warner
14 - Virat Kohli
13 - Brian Lara
12 - Rohit Sharma
11 - Sanath Jayasuriya
9 - M Jayawardene
8 - Babar Azam
8 - K Sangakkara
8 - Hashim Amla
8 - T Dilshan
7 - Sachin Tendulkar
7 - Herschelle Gibbs
7 - Ross Taylor
7 - Ricky Ponting
6 - Chris Gayle
5 - Saeed Anwar
5 - Sourav Ganguly
 
I think what goes against Babar is that ODI cricket is dying and outside WCs it has little or no meaning. Babar is a top player, he is comfortable in chases than setting totals. Both him and Kohli have had the advantage of few Ind PK Matches and the pressure that comes with the rivalry. Tendulkar faced mostly top PK attacks and that goes to his credit
 
different era, odi batting is a lot easier than the start of tendus career, tendu will always be the odi behemoth by the sheer weight of numbers, if your going on impact then viv is the odi goat, with kohli second.

also given the asian focus on this forum, dean jones gets lost in the conversation too, but between viv and tendu he was pbly the best odi batsman.

babar is the greater Pakistani odi bat of all time, babar is a great of this era, but if anyone thinks he would have averaged 60 odd in the 90s, then that's just delusion. hes pbly a top 5 all time odi batsman with kohli, viv, tendu and dean jones with de Villiers and bevan somewhere in the mix too.

tendu
babar
kohli
viv
jones
de villers (wk)
bevan

would be a great top 7 with 3 part time bowlers to boot
 
*Babar consistently making ODIs his bread and butter

The cricket world: I take issues with this format :ravi
 
different era, odi batting is a lot easier than the start of tendus career, tendu will always be the odi behemoth by the sheer weight of numbers, if your going on impact then viv is the odi goat, with kohli second.

also given the asian focus on this forum, dean jones gets lost in the conversation too, but between viv and tendu he was pbly the best odi batsman.

babar is the greater Pakistani odi bat of all time, babar is a great of this era, but if anyone thinks he would have averaged 60 odd in the 90s, then that's just delusion. hes pbly a top 5 all time odi batsman with kohli, viv, tendu and dean jones with de Villiers and bevan somewhere in the mix too.

tendu
babar
kohli
viv
jones
de villers (wk)
bevan

would be a great top 7 with 3 part time bowlers to boot
Good post, agreed with your list
 
There are somei nnings of Kohli which Babar is yet to play. The innings Kohli played against prime Malinga , and chased an impossible total , was one of a kind stand out innings. Babar needs to play such innings to be on same level. He is scoring runs , but not creating that kind of impact.
 
There are somei nnings of Kohli which Babar is yet to play. The innings Kohli played against prime Malinga , and chased an impossible total , was one of a kind stand out innings. Babar needs to play such innings to be on same level. He is scoring runs , but not creating that kind of impact.
When you compare Babar to Kohli at the age of 28 after 102 innings it's evident that Babar is significantly ahead and on the right path.
 
When you compare Babar to Kohli at the age of 28 after 102 innings it's evident that Babar is significantly ahead and on the right path.
The opposition that Kohli faced was also different.

You expect Babar to treat Malinga in prime like that ? If Babar does that and win such games , he will certainly be on the same level.
 
The opposition that Kohli faced was also different.

You expect Babar to treat Malinga in prime like that ? If Babar does that and win such games , he will certainly be on the same level.
no doubt about kohli he is one of the best but if u compare him with babar so yeah he is chasing him well.. one of the great inning he played against india in 2021 t20 world cup where he shown his class.
 
no doubt about kohli he is one of the best but if u compare him with babar so yeah he is chasing him well.. one of the great inning he played against india in 2021 t20 world cup where he shown his class.
Today if Kohli retires , he still will be GOAT in ODI , same cannot be said about Babaar , yes he has the potential , how much he will realize that is to be seen.
 
At least in the shorter formats in his peak, Kohli was an amazing chaser. The match was never over until Kohli was out.
He was able to switch gears very quickly without slogging.

Babar on the other hand also chases well but the difference between the two IMO is that Babar leaves the finish right to the end thereby applying additional (and sometimes unnecessary) pressure to the rest of the team.
 
The lack of ODI cricket will hurt Babar's legacy. A shame because he could have gone down as statistically the best. I hope he is able to near 10K by the end of his career. Has the potential to have way more than 10K but Pakistan is too obsessed with T20 cricket and there are leagues happening all the time now. Cricket is not the same anymore.

I don't think the lack of games should harm his ODI legacy at all. He could end up with 150 or more ODI games under his belt so I can't see that being a knock on him at all.

The bigger harm to his legacy is his lack of test cricket, which might stop him from having an average of 50 or more.
 
I don't have edit permissions (and still can't post with a review, cmon guys lol!) so this is the other bit I wanted to say:

With the dearth of ODI matches in recent times, Babar's legacy will become very much that of the very best international footballers...how good is he in tournament play? So far, the answer is pretty good. If this world cup goes to plan and he scores heavily and helps win games, he could be verging on being a great tournament player.
 
Babar is not a match winner.

Once he will start winning games against big teams than we might compare him with Khli and Tendulkar.
 
no doubt about kohli he is one of the best but if u compare him with babar so yeah he is chasing him well.. one of the great inning he played against india in 2021 t20 world cup where he shown his class.
How is chasing 150 odd a great innings? He had rizwan too at the other end. Has babar played a knock like Kohli played in 2022 t20 WC against Pakistan where Kohli took India home from 32-4? Also he is yet to score an ODI 50 against India.
 
This is why I say stats mislead, Sachin played in an era where reverse swing was lethal, powerplay brought even balance between the bat and ball, and odi tours were serious, and people played full strength teams rather then just waiting to play full strength until tournaments.

Also easier restrictions on wides, bouncers and in an era where chucking and ball tampering were pretty easy to get away with.

Getting to 270 use to be extremely hard.

Now imam on stats looks to be better then gilchrist and hayden lol 😂😂.

Theirs a reason babar averages only 28 against India, man can't play kuldeep or bumrah.

Imagine of Bobby had to play in am era with one new ball only, and dealt with the likes of Warne, Glenn mcgrath etc.

Bobby would be toast. Also as for kohli, he plays in the same era as babar but he comes strong in clutch situations consistently and bullies Pakistan like theirs no tmr. Bobby is yet to do that minus his iconic innings against NZ.
 
This is why I say stats mislead, Sachin played in an era where reverse swing was lethal, powerplay brought even balance between the bat and ball, and odi tours were serious, and people played full strength teams rather then just waiting to play full strength until tournaments.

Also easier restrictions on wides, bouncers and in an era where chucking and ball tampering were pretty easy to get away with.

Getting to 270 use to be extremely hard.

Now imam on stats looks to be better then gilchrist and hayden lol 😂😂.

Theirs a reason babar averages only 28 against India, man can't play kuldeep or bumrah.

Imagine of Bobby had to play in am era with one new ball only, and dealt with the likes of Warne, Glenn mcgrath etc.

Bobby would be toast. Also as for kohli, he plays in the same era as babar but he comes strong in clutch situations consistently and bullies Pakistan like theirs no tmr. Bobby is yet to do that minus his iconic innings against NZ.

Come on bro.
Bobby B would average 40+ in Tendulkar era alongside Mark Waugh
 
Come on bro.
Bobby B would average 40+ in Tendulkar era alongside Mark Waugh
Babar would Average around 30 considering gilchrist avg 35/36 lol. But no one looks at gilchrist and says he has a trash avg or looks at santh jaysuria's avg.

People have no clue on how difficult it was to bat in that era.

Viv Richards was the coach of quetta gladiators and he literally considered the new era a joke when he was interviewed.

He straight up laughed that theirs a bouncer rule cause in his era bowlers use to bowl 6 bouncers an over to him. In tendulkars's era, the wides were further apart so bowlers could get away with bowling extremely wide lines to the batsmen, it was harder to play later on in the innings as well because 1 new ball meant as the ball got softer and older it was just harder to hit in general.

Tendulkar's era is ironically a 100x easier them viv's and sunny's era, since in that era their wasn't even a boundary line, meaning hitting a 4 meant hitting all the way to the fence lol.

Babar would Average round about 20 in viv's era and around 35 and a 77 SR in Sachin's era. Rn he avg 57 and 89SR but imam avg 51 and 82, really shows how it's eased up.

Someone like de Villiers who is proper class avg 53 and SR 103 lol, Kohli averaged 90 during chasing at his peak with a 113 SR lol.

The current era is easier, and a class batsmen like kohli and de Villiers clearly show how ATG's act in this era.

Not Bobby. Bobby would be avg in the modern era just like he is avg now.

Babar is a good batsmen but even atm quinton, Root, Malan, Devon Conway, rohit sharma, Gill etc etx all these lads are superior.

Heck rn, Rizzu is superior to babar on current form lol. Peak babar > Rizzu but he isn't anywhere close to Gill even at peak, let alone kohli. Tendulkar era he'd be okay, viv era he'd get eaten alive.
 
Come on bro.
Bobby B would average 40+ in Tendulkar era alongside Mark Waugh

To put Into perspective

Viv's/Sunny's era

- Bats were razor thin so timing was key for anything.
- Unlimited bouncers allowed something Joel Garner abused daily
- Very very generous width lines so bowlers could bowl wide to the batsmen and unless it was too far down legside, slightly down leg side didn't mean wide
- Lack of camera quality meant alot of chucking, ball tampering would happen and many bowlers use to do it
- Field restrictions were a joke, weird field settings such as placing legside slips and then bowling on the legside 😂😂, something that is illegal today.
- One new ball only, so reverse swing at the back end as well.
- No boundary circle, so boundary meant all the way to the fence for a 4, or hit over the fence for a 6.

^^ With all this nonsense no wonder batsmen were seen as bunnies. Its insane viv avg 47 and 86 SR during this era and no one else except sunny and zaheer came close, everyone else was stuck in lower to high 20's and SR's were like 56 to 63 lol. I saw viv's highlights, his timing is crazy.

Tendulkar's era

- Heavier bats now, so easier to time and edges now can do to boundaries, so can miss hits.
- one bouncer per over only( Only rule that's harder then the current era)
- improved camera quality but still possible to ball tamper and chuck, someone like saeed ajmal wouldn't get caught in this era, but it's now more difficult to ball tamper and chuck.
- PP rules more balanced to give even balance to bat and ball in the game.
- one new ball only
- boundary circle
- The wides are still extremely extremely generous.

Current era

- Bat quality slightly improved but not much difference.
- 2 bouncers per over
- current camera quality and rules have made it impossible to chuck and ball tamper now, you'd get caught ASAP.
- PP rules are a joke, Opening PP is so easy to abuse, Middle is easy to take singles lol.
- 2 new balls so hardly any revrse swing and ball is easy to smack later on, bazzball is now possible and 300 and 400's are easier to achieve. 300 on par now.
- Boundary circle
- The wides are right, Anything down the legside is considered a wide even if the batsmen can play it and anything slightly over the line is a wide now whereas you had to be > the 2nd line in tendulkar and viv's era.

^^ So yes current era is much much easier to bat.

Don't even get me started on the Don bradman era, where bowlers started throwing 180kph wata's into the batsmens body and faces 😂😂. When bodyline was being abused, and before its ban batsmen couldn't barely avg 10.

How bradman still managed to avg 55 even with the bodyline is beyond me, that guy truly was the god of cricket lol, Since even Sachin and biv wouldn't avg more then 10 if someone threw wata's at your face 😂😂.
 
To put Into perspective

Viv's/Sunny's era

- Bats were razor thin so timing was key for anything.
- Unlimited bouncers allowed something Joel Garner abused daily
- Very very generous width lines so bowlers could bowl wide to the batsmen and unless it was too far down legside, slightly down leg side didn't mean wide
- Lack of camera quality meant alot of chucking, ball tampering would happen and many bowlers use to do it
- Field restrictions were a joke, weird field settings such as placing legside slips and then bowling on the legside 😂😂, something that is illegal today.
- One new ball only, so reverse swing at the back end as well.
- No boundary circle, so boundary meant all the way to the fence for a 4, or hit over the fence for a 6.

^^ With all this nonsense no wonder batsmen were seen as bunnies. Its insane viv avg 47 and 86 SR during this era and no one else except sunny and zaheer came close, everyone else was stuck in lower to high 20's and SR's were like 56 to 63 lol. I saw viv's highlights, his timing is crazy.

Tendulkar's era

- Heavier bats now, so easier to time and edges now can do to boundaries, so can miss hits.
- one bouncer per over only( Only rule that's harder then the current era)
- improved camera quality but still possible to ball tamper and chuck, someone like saeed ajmal wouldn't get caught in this era, but it's now more difficult to ball tamper and chuck.
- PP rules more balanced to give even balance to bat and ball in the game.
- one new ball only
- boundary circle
- The wides are still extremely extremely generous.

Current era

- Bat quality slightly improved but not much difference.
- 2 bouncers per over
- current camera quality and rules have made it impossible to chuck and ball tamper now, you'd get caught ASAP.
- PP rules are a joke, Opening PP is so easy to abuse, Middle is easy to take singles lol.
- 2 new balls so hardly any revrse swing and ball is easy to smack later on, bazzball is now possible and 300 and 400's are easier to achieve. 300 on par now.
- Boundary circle
- The wides are right, Anything down the legside is considered a wide even if the batsmen can play it and anything slightly over the line is a wide now whereas you had to be > the 2nd line in tendulkar and viv's era.

^^ So yes current era is much much easier to bat.

Don't even get me started on the Don bradman era, where bowlers started throwing 180kph wata's into the batsmens body and faces 😂😂. When bodyline was being abused, and before its ban batsmen couldn't barely avg 10.

How bradman still managed to avg 55 even with the bodyline is beyond me, that guy truly was the god of cricket lol, Since even Sachin and biv wouldn't avg more then 10 if someone threw wata's at your face 😂😂.
Sunny G was a dud for the most of his odi career with the exception of last 2/3 years. All the Indian fans here like Bhaijaan & around the globe will tell you this. By the time he truly mastered on how to properly construct an odi innings he was in mid 30's & basically was finished. It was Srikant, Kapil, Sandeep, Yashpal, Dilip & later Azhar who always had to do the heavy lifting. He is the undisputed test goat(opener) but in odi's it's almost the opposite.
You mentioned Sunny G along with Viv & Abbas who obviously were the top dogs of that era. But David Gower, Alan Lamb, Salim Malik, Azharuddin, Srikant, Dean Jones, Martin Crowe, Greg Chappell, Desmond Hayens,Gordon Greenidge, Clive Loydd, Javed Miandad; I can assure you each of these men were better odi players than Sunny G & had more impact, won more matches. I didn't watch at least half of them, but ask any old timers around here, I am certain they will more or less say the same thing.
 
Sunny G was a dud for the most of his odi career with the exception of last 2/3 years. All the Indian fans here like Bhaijaan & around the globe will tell you this. By the time he truly mastered on how to properly construct an odi innings he was in mid 30's & basically was finished. It was Srikant, Kapil, Sandeep, Yashpal, Dilip & later Azhar who always had to do the heavy lifting. He is the undisputed test goat(opener) but in odi's it's almost the opposite.
You mentioned Sunny G along with Viv & Abbas who obviously were the top dogs of that era. But David Gower, Alan Lamb, Salim Malik, Azharuddin, Srikant, Dean Jones, Martin Crowe, Greg Chappell, Desmond Hayens,Gordon Greenidge, Clive Loydd, Javed Miandad; I can assure you each of these men were better odi players than Sunny G & had more impact, won more matches. I didn't watch at least half of them, but ask any old timers around here, I am certain they will more or less say the same thing.

I don't know anything about the old era bro, very limited knowledge. I just know their were certain greats but viv was considered the top dog of that era. Or at the very least is the most popular.

Lastly ik the rules of the era and have seen viv highlights so I do know having an avg of 40+ and a SR of 80+ is crazy in that era. Its basically other worldy since someone like kohli would avg like 30 with 65SR. Babar wouldn't even be averaging 25 lol
 
Sunny G was a dud for the most of his odi career with the exception of last 2/3 years. All the Indian fans here like Bhaijaan & around the globe will tell you this. By the time he truly mastered on how to properly construct an odi innings he was in mid 30's & basically was finished. It was Srikant, Kapil, Sandeep, Yashpal, Dilip & later Azhar who always had to do the heavy lifting. He is the undisputed test goat(opener) but in odi's it's almost the opposite.
You mentioned Sunny G along with Viv & Abbas who obviously were the top dogs of that era. But David Gower, Alan Lamb, Salim Malik, Azharuddin, Srikant, Dean Jones, Martin Crowe, Greg Chappell, Desmond Hayens,Gordon Greenidge, Clive Loydd, Javed Miandad; I can assure you each of these men were better odi players than Sunny G & had more impact, won more matches. I didn't watch at least half of them, but ask any old timers around here, I am certain they will more or less say the same thing.


Gavaskar hands the greatest batsman of the 1970s till mid 1980s in the only format that mattered at that time - Test cricket

Nobody took ODIs seriously untill 1992 World Cup went colourful
 
I don't know anything about the old era bro, very limited knowledge. I just know their were certain greats but viv was considered the top dog of that era. Or at the very least is the most popular.

Lastly ik the rules of the era and have seen viv highlights so I do know having an avg of 40+ and a SR of 80+ is crazy in that era. Its basically other worldy since someone like kohli would avg like 30 with 65SR. Babar wouldn't even be averaging 25 lol
Then you shouldn't have claimed Sunny G as one of the best of his era🙂, as not even his most adherent admirers would generally claim this.
As for your argument regarding Kohli, Babar & other modern greats & their adaptability in the 80/90's. That's a very complex & dynamic discussion. You can't just simply reach to a conclusion with someone like Kohli that he would end up with 30/65 stats. I don't particularly like the guy for various reasons but can't deny his overall impact & greatness. You have to keep in mind that Kohli has a nerve of still & an extremely tough guy. So there's a strong possibility he would adapt & end up having figures similar to Abbas. Basically second best after Viv, as no one is beating him, simply none. I similarly see Kohli having figures similar to Anwar, Waugh or Lara in the 90's as in the second best after Sachin. With Babar its extremely difficult to predict. He is talented, gifted with astute timing, but mentally so fragile. Very rarely I have seen such a prolific run scorer chocking so much under pressure. Then you take his usual issues against both spin & quality pace(not trundlers). I shudder to think this guy surviving the gazillion of legendary pace in those ultra pace friendly decades. Similarly if he can't handle jobbers like Rashid /Mujib on flatter tracks I don't know what he would have done against Warne, Murali, Kumble on more spicier tracks. He wouldn't be a great of his era if he was playing then, that I am pretty certain.
 
Gavaskar hands the greatest batsman of the 1970s till mid 1980s in the only format that mattered at that time - Test cricket

Nobody took ODIs seriously untill 1992 World Cup went colourful
I am not so certain about that & not even interested on indulging an argument regarding this. If odi's weren't taken seriously then why did people celebrate the glories of 83 & 85 with such pomp? or why did that Javed sixer created so much controversy & heartbreak? Nonetheless the point was whether he was a great odi batsman or not, which he wasn't. It's a bit like when t20 first arrived, not many people took it seriously but that doesn't mean we should ignore all the great performances in initial years from Gayle, Hayden, Gambhir, Yuvraj, Gibbs, Afridi, Dilshan etc just because the format was yet to be accepted wholeheartedly. Ponting flopped on that format & Sachin was kept away from the team, that doesn't mean much to their overall legacy. But it certainly means they were not good enough for that format, which is exactly what applied to Sunny G regarding odi.
 
Then you shouldn't have claimed Sunny G as one of the best of his era🙂, as not even his most adherent admirers would generally claim this.
As for your argument regarding Kohli, Babar & other modern greats & their adaptability in the 80/90's. That's a very complex & dynamic discussion. You can't just simply reach to a conclusion with someone like Kohli that he would end up with 30/65 stats. I don't particularly like the guy for various reasons but can't deny his overall impact & greatness. You have to keep in mind that Kohli has a nerve of still & an extremely tough guy. So there's a strong possibility he would adapt & end up having figures similar to Abbas. Basically second best after Viv, as no one is beating him, simply none. I similarly see Kohli having figures similar to Anwar, Waugh or Lara in the 90's as in the second best after Sachin. With Babar its extremely difficult to predict. He is talented, gifted with astute timing, but mentally so fragile. Very rarely I have seen such a prolific run scorer chocking so much under pressure. Then you take his usual issues against both spin & quality pace(not trundlers). I shudder to think this guy surviving the gazillion of legendary pace in those ultra pace friendly decades. Similarly if he can't handle jobbers like Rashid /Mujib on flatter tracks I don't know what he would have done against Warne, Murali, Kumble on more spicier tracks. He wouldn't be a great of his era if he was playing then, that I am pretty certain.
I didn't, @Bhaijaan told me he was so I said okay.

I said 1974 to 1994 was viv era bro.

He disagreed and I'm not gonna debate a topic I have limited knowledge about.
 
How is chasing 150 odd a great innings? He had rizwan too at the other end. Has babar played a knock like Kohli played in 2022 t20 WC against Pakistan where Kohli took India home from 32-4? Also he is yet to score an ODI 50 against India.
How is chasing 160 odd on the final ball due to a controversial no ball and getting bowled on a free hit is a great inning?
 
How is chasing 160 odd on the final ball due to a controversial no ball and getting bowled on a free hit is a great inning?
Because he took the team from 34-4. from here Pakistan bolwing should have defended 160 irrespective of the controversial no-ball. World's best bowling lineup of Pakistan needed to defend 48 of 3 overs and he scored bulk of those 48 runs. haris was taken for 2 6s when 28 runs was needed of 8 balls. If this is not a great innings then I dont know what is.
 
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Because he took the team from 34-4. from here Pakistan bolwing should have defended 160 irrespective of the controversial no-ball. World's best bowling lineup of Pakistan needed to defend 48 of 3 overs and he scored bulk of those 48 runs. "Local Boy" haris was taken for 2 6s when 28 runs was needed of 8 balls. If this is not a great innings then I dont know what is.
Lol , Haris hardly played 4,5 matches and bowled less than 20 overs at the G before that match. If chasing down 152 by 10 wickets in a pressure game can't be tagged as one of the greatest innings by the both openers, chasing down 160 odd with a controversial no ball and getting cleaned bowled on a free hit surely isn't either. :)
 
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Lol @ local boy, Haris hardly played 4,5 matches and bowled less than 20 overs at the G before that match. If chasing down 152 by 10 wickets in a pressure game can't be tagged as one of the greatest innings by the both openers, chasing down 160 odd with a controversial no ball and getting cleaned bowled on a free hit surely isn't either. :)
How does being bowled on a free hit even matter. Babar fans are strange, your boy could never chase 28 of 8 against India in a wc. Babar is the king of soft, meaningless runs.
 
How does being bowled on a free hit even matter. Babar fans are strange, your boy could never chase 28 of 8 against India in a wc. Babar is the king of soft, meaningless runs.
How come it doesn't matter? Babar makes winning by 10 wickets soft and treats as a minnow, reason why he isn't scoring runs against minnows these days.
 
Lol , Haris hardly played 4,5 matches and bowled less than 20 overs at the G before that match. If chasing down 152 by 10 wickets in a pressure game can't be tagged as one of the greatest innings by the both openers, chasing down 160 odd with a controversial no ball and getting cleaned bowled on a free hit surely isn't either. :)
Did you start watching cricket from yesterday? Giving out, not out, wides, no-balls are part of the game. Some times they go in your favour some times not. Yesterday we had 2 controversial outs given by 3rd umpire. That can't be a reason for defeat. Pakistan had India by the scruff of the neck at 32-4 and shudn't have even brought the match till the last over in which Nawaz even bowled 2 wides apart from the full toss. As for getting bowled on free-hit he played the wide hoick just because he knew he wouldn't be out even if bowled or caught. How does that diminish his innings? Can you really equate chasing 152 with dew in Dubai and chasing 160 on MCG with 4 quick wickets? If yes, hatsoff to you.
 
The poor kid is under tremendous pressure.

My advise to him at this point is bro forget about stats and go Afridi on the opposition for a year or so.
 
If chasing down 152 by 10 wickets in a pressure game can't be tagged as one of the greatest innings by the both openers, chasing down 160 odd with a controversial no ball and getting cleaned bowled on a free hit surely isn't either. :)
Maybe next time you should start including how badly Kohli has batted in the nets to try and run him down.
 
They are not strange. They simply lie to themselves. In other words, they are dishonest with themselves.

Babar’s entire career is a fluke. Such an insanity to compare him to Kohli & Tendulkar. Actually, Babar isn’t even the top 5 Pakistani ODI batsmen, which says a lot because Pakistani hasn’t produced a world class ODI batsman that consistently performs on the big stage after Saeed Anwar.
 
Babar’s entire career is a fluke. Such an insanity to compare him to Kohli & Tendulkar. Actually, Babar isn’t even the top 5 Pakistani ODI batsmen, which says a lot because Pakistani hasn’t produced a world class ODI batsman that consistently performs on the big stage after Saeed Anwar.
These are the stats of babar for the world cup 2019 where he scored runs with an average of 67.71, and remember that was his first mega event.

1697761249935.png
 
These are the stats of babar for the world cup 2019 where he scored runs with an average of 67.71, and remember that was his first mega event.

View attachment 137898

This confirms what we are saying. His only standout inning, a century against NZ, came at a strike rate of 79. Even in the 2019, Babar failed to step up when the team needed him, hence why Pakistan didn’t do well in the 2019 WC. Same story in the two T20 WCs since 2019. When the chips are down, Babar hides.
 
These are the stats of babar for the world cup 2019 where he scored runs with an average of 67.71, and remember that was his first mega event.

View attachment 137898
Thank you for posting the innings by innings lists. I must say it’s kind of funny how some of his worst performances were against Afghanistan, West Indies, Sri Lanka, and his best ones were against the top teams like England, New Zealand, and South Africa. People always make up the idea that Babar scores all his runs against bad opposition 😂 the truth seems to be that he plays even better when facing the top teams
 
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This confirms what we are saying. His only standout inning, a century against NZ, came at a strike rate of 79. Even in the 2019, Babar failed to step up when the team needed him, hence why Pakistan didn’t do well in the 2019 WC. Same story in the two T20 WCs since 2019. When the chips are down, Babar hides.
This is revisionism. 79 was a perfectly acceptable strike rate on the pitch. The pitch was tricky and slow and Babar out batted Guptill, Williamson, and Ross Taylor to carry us, almost single handedly, to a win against either the best or second best team in the entire tournament.
 
This direct comparison will give nothing. Shubman Gill will look better than everyone after 37 matches. 64 average at a strike rate of 102 with already 6 centuries. Tendulkar played in a completely different era, in completely different position for the best part of his career. The approach, bat, thought process, attitude everything was back then. Gill has started. once he attains peak he is going to have crazy high impact numbers. Already has a 200.
 
Stats alone are meaningless without context. I bet Babar has played a lot of his cricket against minnows or against the C, D teams of the top 4-5 teams in comparison to Kohli.

People are missing this point. Kohli has missed around 19 matches in the last 2 years. Rohit missed 25 matches. Gill alone missed 15 matches. Babar missed 0 matches including all the matches against Netherlands. So when he is suddenly up against teams with full strength even on a flat deck he is struggling to enforce so much so opponent ended up sharing the uncomfortable truth about them. In 2023 Rizwan > Babar let alone Kohli/Rohit et al. I think there is incessant obsession with comparing him with top players and building a brand. This is like building a brand for Amla. Not even gifted ABDv had this kind of hype.
 
People are missing this point. Kohli has missed around 19 matches in the last 2 years. Rohit missed 25 matches. Gill alone missed 15 matches. Babar missed 0 matches including all the matches against Netherlands. So when he is suddenly up against teams with full strength even on a flat deck he is struggling to enforce so much so opponent ended up sharing the uncomfortable truth about them. In 2023 Rizwan > Babar let alone Kohli/Rohit et al. I think there is incessant obsession with comparing him with top players and building a brand. This is like building a brand for Amla. Not even gifted ABDv had this kind of hype.

I would like the captaincy to be taken away from Babar and for brand nonsense to stop with him.

I would like to see if he can drastically improve his batting if he plays purely as a player.

The captaincy and the powers he had in the last 3-4 years has halted his progress.
 
I would like the captaincy to be taken away from Babar and for brand nonsense to stop with him.

I would like to see if he can drastically improve his batting if he plays purely as a player.

The captaincy and the powers he had in the last 3-4 years has halted his progress.

Brand building is very common in the subcontinent. They have bot accounts that incessantly run these comparisons just to keep him relevant. After 20 matches Rassie van der Dussen's ODI average was like 80 at a strike rate of 85. Even early this year Van der Dussen ODI average was like 71 at a strike rate of 90. You don't see comparisons like R Van der Dussen, after 35 matches comparison with Kohli. Kohli earned this King tag after years of consistency and jaw-dropping individual knocks. Even in his worst form, he could produce a gem like 82 at MCG. He can retire right now and retire as an ATG in LOIs. There is an aura about guys like Kohli, Sachin. Nothing to take away from Babar, but this comparison is rather artificial and forced. It does more harm than help. He is forced to live upto it so he is worried more about average than strike rate i guess. If he is too consume with batting average i am sure youngsters like Gill will overtake him very soon.
 
Not even close.

Both Kohli and Sachin are far better and more well-rounded ODI batsmen.
 
Kohli was surrounded by other great players. So did Tendulkar.

Babar has to do the heavy lifting on his own (his teammates are generally inconsistent).

So, that's one disadvantage Babar has.
Babar chose this path.
 
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