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Lifetime international cricket ban for future match-fixers?

miandadrules

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How many feel that the PCB should enforce a lifetime ban for anyone caught spot/match fixing for now on?

I realise everyone has a right to earn a living and a return to domestic cricket is reasonable but to play for Pakistan is a privilege. Once a player betrays a nation's trust I can't see how they can be give such a responsibility again.

This has nothing to do with past convictions, I'm talking about any infringements from now on.
 
Anyone, who is proven to be a fixer, should never play at highest level.

PCB will never come out with a policy like that. PCB backed fixers completely from the get go and even wanted to play fixers against Eng after all this came out.
 
No. The current 5 year ban for spot-fixing is just right. A case can be made for a second offence resulting in a longer ban but you don't just take away someone's bread and butter because they made one mistake.
 
No. Everyone deserves a second chance, mistakes happen.
 
you don't just take away someone's bread and butter because they made one mistake.

You can earn your bread and better in gazillion ways rather than represent your country at highest level. A CEO of a bank, who scams his customers, will never be hired back by the company to become the CEO again.

This bread and butter logic is lousy one.
 
You can earn your bread and better in gazillion ways rather than represent your country at highest level. A CEO of a bank, who scams his customers, will never be hired back by the company to become the CEO again.

This bread and butter logic is lousy one.

Please tell me a few of these gazillion ways that an 18 year old kid who hasn't finished middle school will earn enough bread for him and his family.
 
Please tell me a few of these gazillion ways that an 18 year old kid who hasn't finished middle school will earn enough bread for him and his family.

He will be in mid 23-24 year old when he could get his bread and butter by either representing his country at highest level or find some work which 99.99% of his countrymen are doing.

99.99% of Pakistani men in their 20s do all kinds of work to earn bread and butter. This bread and butter logic a lousy one.
 
You can earn your bread and better in gazillion ways rather than represent your country at highest level. A CEO of a bank, who scams his customers, will never be hired back by the company to become the CEO again.

This bread and butter logic is lousy one.

I am not sure your point will get much traction. Has been mentioned many times but people with soft corner for the fixer will toss it out everytime.

Please tell me a few of these gazillion ways that an 18 year old kid who hasn't finished middle school will earn enough bread for him and his family.

So people who dont play cricket and havent finished middle school dont get to feed families in pakistan?
 
He will be in mid 23-24 year old when he could get his bread and butter by either representing his country at highest level or find some work which 99.99% of his countrymen are doing.

99.99% of Pakistani men in their 20s do all kinds of work to earn bread and butter. This bread and butter logic a lousy one.

You mean menial jobs? 100% of those people would rather be doing something else but don't have the resources to. Most cricketers from the subcon are in the same boat if you take away their cricket. You're just hiding your insensitivity by calling it a lousy argument when it isn't. Read about some of the stories of there cricketers.
 
You mean menial jobs? 100% of those people would rather be doing something else but don't have the resources to. Most cricketers from the subcon are in the same boat if you take away their cricket. You're just hiding your insensitivity by calling it a lousy argument when it isn't. Read about some of the stories of there cricketers.

So because the jobs are menial in a country, they should let the people represent the country again.. AFTER FIXING? :yshah1


Aamir can study if he wants to. Infact, he would have if he wasnt allowed back in. Else he could have been a doodhwala (a pakistani fan's suggestion orginally), a wholesale veggie/meat seller or anything which provides income.

By all means if cricket is what he can manage, allowing him on the domestic scene only so he could earn was the best pcb could have done if they were serious. Instead they went about doing what we all know.
 
You mean menial jobs? 100% of those people would rather be doing something else but don't have the resources to. Most cricketers from the subcon are in the same boat if you take away their cricket. You're just hiding your insensitivity by calling it a lousy argument when it isn't. Read about some of the stories of there cricketers.

well it is a lousy argument.
 
People from other countries can hang their cricketers for all I care but I'm happy with how the PCB has supported Amir, Asif and Butt.

A mistake was made and they have learned their lesson. After their time is done, they are like any other cricketer in our country, in my eyes and should be treated as such.
 
People from other countries can hang their cricketers for all I care but I'm happy with how the PCB has supported Amir, Asif and Butt.

A mistake was made and they have learned their lesson. After their time is done, they are like any other cricketer in our country, in my eyes and should be treated as such.

Do you feel the same way about all convicted criminals?
 
You mean menial jobs? 100% of those people would rather be doing something else but don't have the resources to. Most cricketers from the subcon are in the same boat if you take away their cricket. You're just hiding your insensitivity by calling it a lousy argument when it isn't. Read about some of the stories of there cricketers.

So what kind of menial jobs Butt, Amir etc have been doing in the last 4 years? I have heard one giving expert comments about cricket in media to earn money. Also, many from Pakistan do get education and work.

Amir has more options than an average Pakistani to earn money. Hardly a bread and butter situation here. He can become a coach, commentator or play in leagues. All of them are not available to an average person in Pakistan. But Amir can do pretty much everything which an average Pakistani can do.

Being sympathetic is one thing but presenting it as the bread and butter situation takes it to an another level. Representing your nation at highest level is a privilege. It's not the only available option for anyone to earn bread and butter.
 
They can still continue playing domestic cricket. People have problems only when they represent the country again.
 
I hope you see the difference between murdering a man and bowling a no-ball.

One could be a crime of passion or self-defence, whilst the other is pre-meditated.

Do you feel the same way about criminals or do you feel that we should shift and change boundaries when it suits us?
 
Just to make it clear - It's fine if someone wants to see Amir or for that matter anyone proven fixer playing back. Just say so. All of us feel differently and that's fine. I have issue with when we start using bread and butter like arguments for fixers. It's stretching it too much.
 
This is my point.

Make it clear to every player from now on if you indulge in such acts you will never play for Pakistan again.

After the case of these 3 dudes No player should dare involve in any kind of fixing , but if a player does must be banned.
 
One could be a crime of passion or self-defence, whilst the other is pre-meditated.

Do you feel the same way about criminals or do you feel that we should shift and change boundaries when it suits us?

I'm talking about murder where the aggressor is the guilty party. Anyway, this is about spot-fixing and lets keep it to that.

So what kind of menial jobs Butt, Amir etc have been doing in the last 4 years? I have heard one giving expert comments about cricket in media to earn money. Also, many from Pakistan do get education and work.

Amir has more options than an average Pakistani to earn money. Hardly a bread and butter situation here. He can become a coach, commentator or play in leagues. All of them are not available to an average person in Pakistan. But Amir can do pretty much everything which an average Pakistani can do.

Being sympathetic is one thing but presenting it as the bread and butter situation takes it to an another level. Representing your nation at highest level is a privilege. It's not the only available option for anyone to earn bread and butter.

So you're okay with him becoming a coach but not playing cricket? Where is the logic in that? If he is given authority over other cricketers, do you not feel that he will corrupt them? Assuming that you do not share my view that he is genuinely guilty over his actions.
 
Bilal,

Dou you feel the same about all criminals? If not please explain why not?
 
I'm talking about murder where the aggressor is the guilty party. Anyway, this is about spot-fixing and lets keep it to that.



So you're okay with him becoming a coach but not playing cricket? Where is the logic in that? If he is given authority over other cricketers, do you not feel that he will corrupt them? Assuming that you do not share my view that he is genuinely guilty over his actions.

He genuinely guilty for what he did. I also don't assume that he will start fixing again if he comes back. I simply don't want to see any proven fixers playing at highest level again. I don't have any issue with them playing domestics or leagues. I wouldn't want my Bank's CEO back if he was guilty of scamming me. Cricketers fall in same category. I will not stop the guilty CEO to find another job at some other place but not at my bank.
 
He genuinely guilty for what he did. I also don't assume that he will start fixing again if he comes back. I simply don't want to see any proven fixers playing at highest level again. I don't have any issue with them playing domestics or leagues. I wouldn't want my Bank's CEO back if he was guilty of scamming me. Cricketers fall in same category. I will not stop the guilty CEO to find another job at some other place but not at my bank.

What other country can Amir play for, except Pakistan? If you believe that he has turned over a new leaf then there should be zero reason for you not wanting him to come back.
 
Also, it's an internal issue if a board decides to allow fixers to play in domestics. Domestics and internationals are not the same thing.
 
What other country can Amir play for, except Pakistan? If you believe that he has turned over a new leaf then there should be zero reason for you not wanting him to come back.

He can play in many T-20 leagues. Some leagues may not allow but many will allow. It's not a bread and butter issue at all.

I don't have any issue with Amir or anyone specific. I have a simple issue of youngster thinking that let's take a chance with fixing and if caught then, it's 5 years and you can be again back representing your country. Privilege of representing your nation can't be equated with bread and butter scenario. I don't have any issue with him earning bread and butter.
 
Well, I would for a self policing process that leads to fixers never being selected by the boards, rather than the Icc imposing it on the board
 
He can play in many T-20 leagues. Some leagues may not allow but many will allow. It's not a bread and butter issue at all.

I don't have any issue with Amir or anyone specific. I have a simple issue of youngster thinking that let's take a chance with fixing and if caught then, it's 5 years and you can be again back representing your country. Privilege of representing your nation can't be equated with bread and butter scenario. I don't have any issue with him earning bread and butter.

If he's the best pacer in the country then he deserves to be playing at the highest level, especially if he's turned over a new leaf like we both believe he has. Unless you want to be like a corrupt selector and hold him back because of your own moral beliefs.

A 5 year ban pretty much ended the careers of Asif and Butt and stalled the growth of Amir so I seriously doubt that any youngster would purposefully spot-fix after this.
 
If he's the best pacer in the country then he deserves to be playing at the highest level, especially if he's turned over a new leaf like we both believe he has. Unless you want to be like a corrupt selector and hold him back because of your own moral beliefs.

A 5 year ban pretty much ended the careers of Asif and Butt and stalled the growth of Amir so I seriously doubt that any youngster would purposefully spot-fix after this.

I see it as privilege and you see it as his right to represent the nation at highest level. There lies the difference in how we see this entire issue.
 
I see it as privilege and you see it as his right to represent the nation at highest level. There lies the difference in how we see this entire issue.

Yes, you're right. Agree to disagree then.
 
If he's the best pacer in the country then he deserves to be playing at the highest level, especially if he's turned over a new leaf like we both believe he has. Unless you want to be like a corrupt selector and hold him back because of your own moral beliefs.

A 5 year ban pretty much ended the careers of Asif and Butt and stalled the growth of Amir so I seriously doubt that any youngster would purposefully spot-fix after this.

Just another angle - I wouldn't want to have the best talent in nation as CEO of my bank if the CEO was scamming customers earlier. I will be perfectly happy with the second best talent. The best talent doesn't deserve the same spot back. he does have right to earn his bread and butter many other ways and I will be fine with that.
 
Just another angle - I wouldn't want to have the best talent in nation as CEO of my bank if the CEO was scamming customers earlier. I will be perfectly happy with the second best talent. The best talent doesn't deserve the same spot back. he does have right to earn his bread and butter many other ways and I will be fine with that.

Then you would be missing out and won't have as successful a bank as I do. Why would you doubt someone's integrity when you believe that they are never to scam anyone again?
 
Then you would be missing out and won't have as successful a bank as I do. Why would you doubt someone's integrity when you believe that they are never to scam anyone again?

You are thinking short term. I am thinking long term.
 
You are thinking short term. I am thinking long term.

You are overthinking it. Ever since the trio was banned, Pakistan cricket hasn't been involved in any controversy so if a 5 year ban is just as effective as a life-time one, why would you want to impose the latter?
 
You are overthinking it. Ever since the trio was banned, Pakistan cricket hasn't been involved in any controversy so if a 5 year ban is just as effective as a life-time one, why would you want to impose the latter?

Who said I was thinking about only Pakistan's cricket? I was simply thinking about international cricket.

Probability of fixing increases if a youngster can come back at the same spot after 5 years as opposed to never coming back at the same spot. The key point is probability here. It doesn't mean that it will always happen and also happen within 3-4 years.
 
Who said I was thinking about only Pakistan's cricket? I was simply thinking about international cricket.

Probability of fixing increases if a youngster can come back at the same spot after 5 years as opposed to never coming back at the same spot. The key point is probability here. It doesn't mean that it will always happen and also happen within 3-4 years.

Probability of fixing will be near zero if you just ban them from all cricket related activity and also fine them a huge sum so why not do that? 5 years is a fair punishment in my opinion.
 
Probability of fixing will be near zero if you just ban them from all cricket related activity and also fine them a huge sum so why not do that?

Individual boards should do something similar but I am not sure if legal law in each countries will allow huge sum as fine. Also, I am not sure if boards can stop all cricket related activities. Butt was seen as providing expert comment related to cricket earlier. Boards can certainly stop them to play domestics and internationals.
 
Poor OP with a limited to non-existent vision to be able to see the bigger picture.
The OP's poor tunnel vision is helplessly and desperately suggesting to catch the small fish.

Modern day cricket industry is a wild ocean where you are talking about hungry sharks and whales roaming around fiercely to make money.

Why do you think the trio got caught?
Because they were corrupt? NO !!

They got caught because they were dumb and stupid who didn't know how exactly to play this game of corruption.

Corruption on a very high level is rampant all over in the intl cricket where honesty and fair play has no value - all what matters is Money.

Even look at the English judicial system and courts. Why do you think the convicted fixers were thrown out of jail n deported to Pakistan? Where did the court order go to keep them behind bars for 5 years ??
Guess what ?? MONEY !!
Who was gonna pay the cost of keeping them in jail? The English Tax payer? No Sir !!

Would there be a more corrupt person than Srini in the cricket scene? lol look how is he untouchable and look where he stands with his yes boss prostitute Dave Richardson.

Look at IPL, the most corrupt tournament that halts the entire FTP of all Cricketting nations. Why? MONEY ??

These minor little spot fixers are nothing - there are much much bigger fish to fry.

Kunvayn Ka maindak type OP.
Wake up and smell the coffee!
 
Why future?? The likes of Amir and Asif will rightfully never play for Pak again, seems to be over for Sreesanth as well. Deep down we all know it.
 
Poor OP with a limited to non-existent vision to be able to see the bigger picture.
The OP's poor tunnel vision is helplessly and desperately suggesting to catch the small fish.

Modern day cricket industry is a wild ocean where you are talking about hungry sharks and whales roaming around fiercely to make money.

Why do you think the trio got caught?
Because they were corrupt? NO !!

They got caught because they were dumb and stupid who didn't know how exactly to play this game of corruption.

Corruption on a very high level is rampant all over in the intl cricket where honesty and fair play has no value - all what matters is Money.

Even look at the English judicial system and courts. Why do you think the convicted fixers were thrown out of jail n deported to Pakistan? Where did the court order go to keep them behind bars for 5 years ??
Guess what ?? MONEY !!
Who was gonna pay the cost of keeping them in jail? The English Tax payer? No Sir !!

Would there be a more corrupt person than Srini in the cricket scene? lol look how is he untouchable and look where he stands with his yes boss prostitute Dave Richardson.

Look at IPL, the most corrupt tournament that halts the entire FTP of all Cricketting nations. Why? MONEY ??

These minor little spot fixers are nothing - there are much much bigger fish to fry.

Kunvayn Ka maindak type OP.
Wake up and smell the coffee!

Oooh Chomsky, your going to hurt my feelings.
 
But his points were somewhat valid, perhaps you should try to refute them rather than resort to silly one liner sarcasm.

What was the actual point?

That I have a parochial view of a world where corruption is ubiquitous?

It is either being suggested that as corruption is endemic we should accept it or that we should try going after the main protagonists rather than the players.

At no point in my OP did I say anything about not going after the true money men.
 
Poor OP with a limited to non-existent vision to be able to see the bigger picture.
The OP's poor tunnel vision is helplessly and desperately suggesting to catch the small fish.

Modern day cricket industry is a wild ocean where you are talking about hungry sharks and whales roaming around fiercely to make money.

Why do you think the trio got caught?
Because they were corrupt? NO !!

They got caught because they were dumb and stupid who didn't know how exactly to play this game of corruption.

Corruption on a very high level is rampant all over in the intl cricket where honesty and fair play has no value - all what matters is Money.

Even look at the English judicial system and courts. Why do you think the convicted fixers were thrown out of jail n deported to Pakistan? Where did the court order go to keep them behind bars for 5 years ??
Guess what ?? MONEY !!
Who was gonna pay the cost of keeping them in jail? The English Tax payer? No Sir !!

Would there be a more corrupt person than Srini in the cricket scene? lol look how is he untouchable and look where he stands with his yes boss prostitute Dave Richardson.

Look at IPL, the most corrupt tournament that halts the entire FTP of all Cricketting nations. Why? MONEY ??

These minor little spot fixers are nothing - there are much much bigger fish to fry.

Kunvayn Ka maindak type OP.
Wake up and smell the coffee!

I don't always agree with you

But that was a brilliant post, could not have said it better.
 
Firstly, I believe that corruption is endemic in every cricketing nation.

Secondly, I think these players were caught and punished because it was a newspaper scam. I believe the real match fixers are protected at a high level.

Thirdly, the ICC Tribunal has to be respected: you can't have each country editing the sentences.

Fourthly, without an ICC Tribunal giving a level playing field, other countries might select protected fixers while other countries field weakened teams.
 
Even look at the English judicial system and courts. Why do you think the convicted fixers were thrown out of jail n deported to Pakistan? Where did the court order go to keep them behind bars for 5 years ??
Guess what ?? MONEY !!
Who was gonna pay the cost of keeping them in jail? The English Tax payer? No Sir !!

There are plenty of foreign nationals in British jails. Sometimes it is cheaper to keep them here than to fight a court battle to extradite them.
 
Lifetime ban. I don't care how good a player is. If you match or spot fix then you don't deserve to ever play cricket again in my eyes
 
Not many players will ever indulge in match-fixing. And those who would ever do will be in all those T20 leagues mushrooming around the world. I am pretty sure some players fixed matches, as opposed to spots, during 2010 WT20. But that was the last instance in international cricket for bookies getting fixing done.

While I suspect match might still be "decided" by mutual agreement of teams (like WWE), but these are never caught.

I dont think life bans will be a deterrent for fixers in T20 leagues. More vigilant teams would be a better alternative
 
The only angle to this I believe is deterrence.

Will imposing life bans stop players from fixing? 50-50 bet.

It will stop those who are weak of heart and scared.

Those who are strong will keep indulging it in anyways, assuming that they will never be caught.

Does 05 years of ban serve as adequate deterrence?

For the said cricketer, perhaps yes.

For others, maybe not, because we have a subjective idea of how 05 years life in isolation would be like. Anyone who is not Amir probably would be tempted again, because he wouldn't understand how 05 years could be like.


The next question is, whether someone deserves to play cricket after knowingly committing a mistake.

I would have to be harsh here, but I would say no.

It's like me misdiagnosing a case of testicular torsion, and patient losing his testicle, having my license suspended for 03 years and then arguing that I want to be doctor in the same hospital because I deserve a second chance.

Of course, I could practice in another hospital, switch jobs, do something else not related to imparting medicine, but once I have been convicted of medical malpractice and have my license suspended , I no longer have the right to represent that particular hospital (entity).

Even if I was the best urologic surgeon known to history of mankind, I would not be welcome to the hospital because of the loss of millions I caused, and the bad fame I brought to the hospital. Bad publicity, bad surgeon.

So while Amir should be free to play international or national cricket, PCB has to make a wise choice here, and avoid infamy and public disgrace in the eyes of others and choose not to select him for international assignments.

This would be PCB's prerogative.

However, knowing that they have backed fixers from the start, I highly doubt that they would go along that route.

Since they will choose to take Amir, I shall be forced to accept him.

Just like if the same hospital chooses to accept me, despite them facing public disgrace, the patients will have no option but to accept me as a urologic surgeon, even though they might not be comfortable.
 
I get the feeling most of those who want the fixers back didn't experience the pain in 2010. Either too young or not into cricket then.

If you felt that betrayal and pain it is inexplicable to let them back in.
 
Been watching Amir since his debut and I couldn't believe the news when it first came out. Then I was in the party who believed that it was a scam by... whatever newspaper did that sting.

I felt the pain but I'm not going to let my personal feelings get in the way of someone's future.
 
Been watching Amir since his debut and I couldn't believe the news when it first came out. Then I was in the party who believed that it was a scam by... whatever newspaper did that sting.

I felt the pain but I'm not going to let my personal feelings get in the way of someone's future.

You are assuming that he doesn't have a future if he doesn't get in Pakistan team.

That's a reach.

He has a future because T20 leagues will immediately accept him if he's any good.

Now don't use the future argument.

Just say you won't let your personal feelings get in the way because we desperately need talented people like him in the team to help our team win.

That would be a truer statement
:)
 
I have the same opinion for Sreesanth. So this is rubbish as usual.

You believe Sreesanth should be allowed to play???

Great.

Why not ask Lance Armstrong to pick up the bike?

And Marion Jones to start running again?

Why just sets of rules for cricketers?
 
You believe Sreesanth should be allowed to play???

Great.

Why not ask Lance Armstrong to pick up the bike?

And Marion Jones to start running again?

Why just sets of rules for cricketers?

'Cause I'm a cricket fan on the cricket section of this cricket forum, focused on a cricketer?
 
People in SC look to Cricket to forget their daily problems a getaway from the terrible things that happen in then countries.We give a lot of respect and some of us worship them we lose our sleep when they lose.We honestly pray for their performance and if in such a scenario the player forgets about all this and doesn't lose a sleep and he cheats all his fans and lets down his country he deserves at least a ban from International cricket.
 
'Cause I'm a cricket fan on the cricket section of this cricket forum, focused on a cricketer?

So your rules conveniently change for non-cricketers?

How strong your ethics are!


Strange.
 
So your rules conveniently change for non-cricketers?

How strong your ethics are!


Strange.

Where did I say anything about any rules changing? I just don't wish to discuss Armstrong in a thread about Amir. Now please only reply with something of substance.
 
I get the feeling most of those who want the fixers back didn't experience the pain in 2010. Either too young or not into cricket then.

If you felt that betrayal and pain it is inexplicable to let them back in.

Couldn't agree more.
 
Where did I say anything about any rules changing? I just don't wish to discuss Armstrong in a thread about Amir. Now please only reply with something of substance.

But we are not discussing Armstrong, but we are arguing precedent here.

The current precedent is to ban people who abuse their power and privilege to indulge in crimes.

But of course, you don't care about precedent, because you need to speak from your head.

That's okay, but your opinions don't have much substance.
 
Been watching Amir since his debut and I couldn't believe the news when it first came out. Then I was in the party who believed that it was a scam by... whatever newspaper did that sting.

I felt the pain but I'm not going to let my personal feelings get in the way of someone's future.

I knew from the start that they were guilty. Although it differs from all other fixing in that it really was a newspaper scam, but still, they fell into it all the same.

I've made it quite clear elsewhere that I think that fixing is rampant in cricket. I'm highly suspicious about Australia scoring 4 runs in the first 5 overs yesterday, particularly as Australia's current team includes two players who have been suspected of deliberate slow scoring for spread-betting purposes in the past.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...babwe-World-Cup-match/articleshow/7599775.cms

And this is the crux of the problem.

If one country goes on a moral crusade while the others ignore fixing then all that happens is that one country puts out a weakened team that loses all the time to opponents who include their best players even if they are dodgy.

Fixing has to be tackled by the entire international cricket community. There need to be identical sentencing guidelines in place, and players from one or two "moral" countries shouldn't be subject to arbitrarily different sentences.

I don't have a problem with life bans going forward, for new offences, with players from every country subject to the same conditions.
 
But we are not discussing Armstrong, but we are arguing precedent here.

The current precedent is to ban people who abuse their power and privilege to indulge in crimes.

But of course, you don't care about precedent, because you need to speak from your head.

That's okay, but your opinions don't have much substance.

Lance Armstrong was abusing outlawed drugs to gain an unfair advantage to win. And he bullied other athletes and even his masseur to enable him to keep cheating.

The three Pakistani spotfixers did not seek to gain any advantage over teammates or opponents. They did not bully or intimidate anyone else. They committed a fairly banal but criminal act which had no impact upon the games in question, and they were (rightly) heavily punished in terms of prison and long suspensions.

Their action was not comparable to Armstrong's. Their action was more comparable to a sportsman wearing unauthorised clothing because they have been paid to do so.

I exceeded the speed limit in my car today. That does not mean that I should be treated like a murderer. If I was caught I might have been rightly punished, but not to the same punishment tarif as a murderer.
 
But we are not discussing Armstrong, but we are arguing precedent here.

The current precedent is to ban people who abuse their power and privilege to indulge in crimes.

But of course, you don't care about precedent, because you need to speak from your head.

That's okay, but your opinions don't have much substance.

There is one Pakistani cricketer who does fit the Lance Armstrong precedent of breaking the rules to gain an unfair advantage over his opponents.

But it is not Asif or Amir or Butt.

It is Saeed Ajmal.

The three spotfixers made no attempt to gain an advantage in the field. But Ajmal chucked his way to countless international scalps, even though his current failure to get his arm extension below 15 degrees proves that he was cheating all along, because he can't amend his action to bowl legally.
 
Where did I say anything about any rules changing? I just don't wish to discuss Armstrong in a thread about Amir. Now please only reply with something of substance.

Thread is not about Anur.
 
Life ban please. It may surely affect some players badly, but it will ensure that no other players spoil themselves or the game in future. To save an entire village, one evil man can be sacrificed. If you save that one evil man, the entire village will be destroyed.
 
No. The current 5 year ban for spot-fixing is just right. A case can be made for a second offence resulting in a longer ban but you don't just take away someone's bread and butter because they made one mistake.

One mistake?

Given what happened to Amir and Asif there is no excuse for ignorance.

Life bans.
 
There is one Pakistani cricketer who does fit the Lance Armstrong precedent of breaking the rules to gain an unfair advantage over his opponents.

But it is not Asif or Amir or Butt.

It is Saeed Ajmal.

The three spotfixers made no attempt to gain an advantage in the field. But Ajmal chucked his way to countless international scalps, even though his current failure to get his arm extension below 15 degrees proves that he was cheating all along, because he can't amend his action to bowl legally.

I disagree.

The ICC gave Ajmal and other spinners the greenlight to bowl with their actions.
 
Lance Armstrong was abusing outlawed drugs to gain an unfair advantage to win. And he bullied other athletes and even his masseur to enable him to keep cheating.

The three Pakistani spotfixers did not seek to gain any advantage over teammates or opponents. They did not bully or intimidate anyone else. They committed a fairly banal but criminal act which had no impact upon the games in question, and they were (rightly) heavily punished in terms of prison and long suspensions.

Their action was not comparable to Armstrong's. Their action was more comparable to a sportsman wearing unauthorised clothing because they have been paid to do so.

I exceeded the speed limit in my car today. That does not mean that I should be treated like a murderer. If I was caught I might have been rightly punished, but not to the same punishment tarif as a murderer.

They didn't seek to gain advantage?

What was the reason for spot fixing then? They were doing charity work?

They spot fixed to gain personal advantage.

Only difference is Lance Armstrong, cheated to gain bicycling advantage and Tour De France records.
Marion Jones took performance enhancing drugs knowingly to win athletic medals.
The trio of Asif, Amir and Butt fixed because they :

They were naive, and didn't know what spot fixing means.
They were doing charity.
They thought everyone does it, so why not us?

But maybe the most logical reason is, all 3 knew they were doing wrong, but were getting easy money out of it.

They were doing it for personal advantage.

Just Like Armstrong did for his personal records, and Jones did for medals. Carl Lewis did for medals.

Everyone does it because they want to get some benefit.

That Lance overused his ability to bully others is irrelavant. Had he been caught doing EPO and not bullying, the life sentence would have stuck.

Just like Jones.

You commit the crime, you do the time.

They have done the time, and I agree they should be free.

But professional bodies have to draw the line between allowing such people to come back.

PCB will, some won't.

That's all there is to it.

And btw Lance Armstrong did not over speed or commit murder. Those are exceptional cases and neither athletes be it the Pakistani trio or Lance committed anything analogous to murder.
 
As for the bread and butter theory, I've already disowned it.

Professional athletes can find millions of ways to earn bread and butter.

Sreesanth and Amir can find other ways to feed themselves.

They won't starve to death on the streets of Pakistan and India, if they are disbarred from representing their respective countries.

Everyone has ability to live a life.

Yes, the quality of life might be different, but I repeat, I cannot knowingly or unknowingly ( in this case everyone knows they did it knowingly) commit and error and get my license cancelled ; stop earning 50,000 dollars a month and come back after 3 years and argue that because I made a grave error of judgment, I be given the right to earn 50,000 dollars a month again.

Precedent : Talent. I am a talented surgeon, good in my field and I need to earn the same amount of money for the same hospital again.

Chance : Hell to none. No one will take me seriously.

Amir has every chance to make a life of himself; at least those who want him back should not beat about the bush and say it's livelihood problem.

Be open and say i support cheats because

1. I love to watch cheats play cricket.
2. I am desperately bored watching my team lose.
3. Other teams cheaters also came back so why not ours.

All 3 above statements would have more weight than the useless argument that he MUST EARN HIS LIVELIHOOD AND SUPPORT HIS FAMILY BY JOINING PAKISTANI CRICKET TEAM.

Pakistan Cricket Board is not a charity organization imparting jobs to those in need.

I hope PCB for a change sticks to its guns, and lays that out on the line.
 
Too many moral warriors on this forum, who have never done anything wrong in their life.

You guys will be the first one to rub your nose in the dirt if you ever find yourself in such a position.

Mistakes happen and they paid the price for it - 5 years is massive for an athlete, when he has at best, 10-15 years at the top level. Very few cricketers can play for 20 years.

That's like ~35% of the career. Why shouldn't they be allowed to play once their ban is over?
 
Too many moral warriors on this forum, who have never done anything wrong in their life.

You guys will be the first one to rub your nose in the dirt if you ever find yourself in such a position.

Mistakes happen and they paid the price for it - 5 years is massive for an athlete, when he has at best, 10-15 years at the top level. Very few cricketers can play for 20 years.

That's like ~35% of the career. Why shouldn't they be allowed to play once their ban is over?

Will my employer rehire me once I get dismissed for stealing something in the company? Life does not give you second chances often, I would have to seek employment else where and hope my past history won't screw me up. Companies do background checking for a good reason.
 
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