Marriage problems

[princeuk]

Hi, I created a thread a while back but cant find it anymore, wanted to start a new one.

I am a british asian and has been married 2 years, have 1 baby thus far. I married a girl from pakistan and its been a train wreck from the word go.

Now my marriage started off badly due to my wifes very arrogant attitude and disdainful attitude towards me, things improved a bit but have gone back tenfold. Things escalated when she started being rude towards my mum and dad, now noone is perfect and my dad certainly isnt but my wife has lost all knowledge of how to interact with elders and i can gurantee you they try and treat her like a princess.

It all started off as she is working now, as we are both working then my parents have to look after the wee one which is fine its what they want as they completely dot on the wee one.

now the argument all started off because my mum made 2 chappatis for me when i got back from work, i didnt start eating until my wife got back home, which was only 15 minutes after me. Now she completely lost it when she realised that only 2 chappatis were made rather than 4, my mum didnt have to as its my wife who makes chappatis for both of us however she lost it when she realised 4 werent made, its not my mums responsibility to always make the food, sometimes its my wife and besides my mum was tired after looking after the wee one.

My mum tried to speak to her but she refused to answer her back that day, this happened twice, when my mum walked into the room i could sense something was up, i got to the bottom of it and my dad found out and lost it and told her to stop acting immature, if my mum had made 2 chappatis instead of 4 she didnt have to make the 2 in the first place as she did us a favour and not as if i eat before she came, i waited for her but no my wife lost it completely.

Now i dont think she should have been upset by this and even if she was, surely its a minor issue NOT a major issue, or do people think it is?

Now its been 6 days since the incident and she doesnt even bother saying salaam to my parents, she has created anomisity in the house. I took her out for a walk and tried to resolve the issue by talking to my wife outside the home environment whereby its just me and I said you MUST say salam to my parents, you cannot ignore them. But same situation she ignores them.

And the worst thing is when she leaves to go to work she EXPECTS my mum to look after my wee 14 old month baby, my mum is more than happy for it but that doesnt mean that she should take my mum for granted. Now im sure there have been others in my situation or know of someone in this situation, not all grandparents are that generous whereby they look after the young children, they might play with them for a bit, but not necessarily look after the grandchildren 8 hours every single day for 5 days a week. this is really tough on my parents as they are old and my mum is diabetic, but my wife has a very disdainful attitude towards everything, she says that if your parents are looking after the kid they are not doing any EHSAAN on us, i am completely dumfounded. How do i counter this argument, the farz lies on me and my wife to look after the kid not my parents so i dont see how she can say such a thing but she has that stuck in her head.

How do i tackle this? im feeling really hurt as i am caught in the middle, now im not saying my family cant get it wrong but they can however my wife is doubly wrong about a lot of things and i havent even told my parents this yet she wished death on my mum and dad when she was really angry, i was so shocked by this and said to her dont you dare say anything else but she always has an answer for anything and did not feel sorry for what she said, I can gurantee you that if it were any other husband he would have thrown her out of the house but for the wee ones sake i havent done that. I get the feeling she is provoking me and my family because she has heard you get social security in this country and she will have a life of luxury whereby she can work and get benefits for the wee one if she is a lone parent, i get the feeling that she is wanting me and my family to do something negative. I am so so stuck, please help me people.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Sorry to read this brother. Living in a joint family system can be a strain for some, although the vast majority of my close mates live in some form of a joint system and are thriving.... but it sounds like your wife has other issues too.

Realistically, how hard do you want to fight for this marriage? Would you choose your parents over her? I appreciate that is a difficult question to answer but it may come down to it in this case.

My suggestion would be to tell her to get her act together but offer to move away from the joint family set up if that helps.

If deep down you know that there is a serious personality clash and things aren;t going to work out at all.....then separation isn't always a bad thing.

 

[topspin]

I won’t mince my words. I’ll say it as it is.

I only sympathise for your wife because you and your family made her live with them and expected everything would be fine.

Your mum should have made 4 x chappatis but she could apologise to your wife. That’s the least she can do.

 

[khan-92]

Salam alaikum brother although you can say it wasn't your mum fault but it is why make 2 for you & not 2 for her.
that makes your wife feel she doesn't care about her & only cares about you.
I would reccomend all people not to live with parents once you get married and expect the wife to look after your parents, it is not her job she married you not your parents.
Most problems within a marriage are caused by in-laws issues.
If I was you if you can live separately from parents then do so will make your marriage life better Insha'Allah.
If you can't be separated then tell your parents to respect her and should not do things which causes tension between yourselves.
And tell your wife she should also respect & love your parents how they look after her kid so she can work & also help around the house.
I pray this works out for you but would highly reccomend you live separately from parents if you can Insha'Allah.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

I won’t mince my words. I’ll say it as it is.

I only sympathise for your wife because you and your family made her live with them and expected everything would be fine.

Your mum should have made 4 x chappatis but she could apologise to your wife. That’s the least she can do.

I won’t mince my words. I’ll say it as it is. Based on your post you sound like a Joru Ka Ghulam.

No one is entitled to have chappatis made for them. Let alone expecting an apology for not making them.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Salam alaikum brother although you can say it wasn't your mum fault but it is why make 2 for you & not 2 for her.
that makes your wife feel she doesn't care about her & only cares about you.
I would reccomend all people not to live with parents once you get married and expect the wife to look after your parents, it is not her job she married you not your parents.
Most problems within a marriage are caused by in-laws issues.
If I was you if you can live separately from parents then do so will make your marriage life better Insha'Allah.
If you can't be separated then tell your parents to respect her and should not do things which causes tension between yourselves.
And tell your wife she should also respect & love your parents how they look after her kid so she can work & also help around the house.
I pray this works out for you but would highly reccomend you live separately from parents if you can Insha'Allah.

In this case its the parents who are looking after their kid. Thats thousands or tens of thousands pounds saved on day care.

 

[Couch Cricketer]

Your mom making chappatis for you and not for her was really passive aggressive move on your Mom's part. That move tells me a lot has happened between your mom and wife which you are not aware of or are ignoring. And your mom might not be as happy about raising the baby and your wife working as you think or making it out to be. Resulting in the friction between them. You need to talk to your mom separately not in the presence of your wife about it she might be saying she has no problem but her action that caused the current flare up indicates otherwise.

 

[offstump]

I think this goes deeper then chapatti-gate. OP, if you don’t mind sharing how old are you and your wife? Is your wife a cousin or related to you in any way? I’m also wondering what kind of relationship you have in terms of how deeply you’ve connected? Talking to your wife is more than telling her what and what not to do. It seems you back down every time she provides you with an answer, I get that sense that you’re a timid guy and your wife is more of the dominating take charge type. If she’s working then that’s a good thing no? Or would you like her to stay at home? Where does her money go, does she keep it or do you have a joint account? I’m wondering if money is part of the problem here. So many questions before anyone can give you proper advice but I do agree, if you can move out and live in your own place near your parents it may do wonders for your marriage.

 

[saeedhk]

Most Pakistani moms in my opinion are jealous of the daughter-in-law because they feel she has stolen their son and that the son's love would be divided between the wife and the mother. It is a very common phenomenon. It is pretty normal for moms to rile up, abuse, mistreat the daughter-in-law and try to drive a wedge between the couple.

I feel the best solution to this problem is that you move out; most problems would go away.

 

[Itachi]

The issue isn't chapatti. There are lots of underground issues going on.

Your mother already made a passive aggressive move by not cooking her food.

Seems like your mother is somewhat marking territories.

You are a mamma's boy right now and if you don't come out of it, it will break the marriage for sure.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

And the worst thing is when she leaves to go to work she EXPECTS my mum to look after my wee 14 old month baby, my mum is more than happy for it but that doesnt mean that she should take my mum for granted. Now im sure there have been others in my situation or know of someone in this situation, not all grandparents are that generous whereby they look after the young children, they might play with them for a bit, but not necessarily look after the grandchildren 8 hours every single day for 5 days a week. this is really tough on my parents as they are old and my mum is diabetic, but my wife has a very disdainful attitude towards everything, she says that if your parents are looking after the kid they are not doing any EHSAAN on us, i am completely dumfounded. How do i counter this argument, the farz lies on me and my wife to look after the kid not my parents so i dont see how she can say such a thing but she has that stuck in her head.

It is an Ehsaan. Your parents are not your mulaazim. You and your wife are saving money on day care. Maybe that can be an idea, show your wife how much day care costs and maybe then she can appreciate that her child is being watched by her grandparents for free.

How do i tackle this? im feeling really hurt as i am caught in the middle, now im not saying my family cant get it wrong but they can however my wife is doubly wrong about a lot of things and i havent even told my parents this yet she wished death on my mum and dad when she was really angry, i was so shocked by this and said to her dont you dare say anything else but she always has an answer for anything and did not feel sorry for what she said, I can gurantee you that if it were any other husband he would have thrown her out of the house but for the wee ones sake i havent done that. I get the feeling she is provoking me and my family because she has heard you get social security in this country and she will have a life of luxury whereby she can work and get benefits for the wee one if she is a lone parent, i get the feeling that she is wanting me and my family to do something negative. I am so so stuck, please help me people.

This is your old thread.

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?281398-New-marriage

She was calling you "Mottoo", and making condescending comments at you. Seems her behavior has not gotten better. Unfortunately no good solution for you. You have a child with her now, and divorce should only be a very very last resort.

 

[Itachi]

It is an Ehsaan. Your parents are not your mulaazim. You and your wife are saving money on day care. Maybe that can be an idea, show your wife how much day care costs and maybe then she can appreciate that her child is being watched by her grandparents for free.




This is your old thread.

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?281398-New-marriage

She was calling you "Mottoo", and making condescending comments at you. Seems her behavior has not gotten better. Unfortunately no good solution for you. You have a child with her now, and divorce should only be a very very last resort.

She's an independent girl who can take a lead and stand up on her own.

OP is very much dependent on his parents. He already started to see her as enemy and I am sure, she isn't happy with the arrangement either.

Both should sit down and have a talk about whether it can go any further. If no future, then tough choices are to be made.

Both clearly have very different personalities and isn't blending with each other. It is becoming irreconcilable differences.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Hi, I created a thread a while back but cant find it anymore, wanted to start a new one.

I am a british asian and has been married 2 years, have 1 baby thus far. I married a girl from pakistan and its been a train wreck from the word go.

Now my marriage started off badly due to my wifes very arrogant attitude and disdainful attitude towards me, things improved a bit but have gone back tenfold. Things escalated when she started being rude towards my mum and dad, now noone is perfect and my dad certainly isnt but my wife has lost all knowledge of how to interact with elders and i can gurantee you they try and treat her like a princess.

It all started off as she is working now, as we are both working then my parents have to look after the wee one which is fine its what they want as they completely dot on the wee one.

now the argument all started off because my mum made 2 chappatis for me when i got back from work, i didnt start eating until my wife got back home, which was only 15 minutes after me. Now she completely lost it when she realised that only 2 chappatis were made rather than 4, my mum didnt have to as its my wife who makes chappatis for both of us however she lost it when she realised 4 werent made, its not my mums responsibility to always make the food, sometimes its my wife and besides my mum was tired after looking after the wee one.

My mum tried to speak to her but she refused to answer her back that day, this happened twice, when my mum walked into the room i could sense something was up, i got to the bottom of it and my dad found out and lost it and told her to stop acting immature, if my mum had made 2 chappatis instead of 4 she didnt have to make the 2 in the first place as she did us a favour and not as if i eat before she came, i waited for her but no my wife lost it completely.

Now i dont think she should have been upset by this and even if she was, surely its a minor issue NOT a major issue, or do people think it is?

Now its been 6 days since the incident and she doesnt even bother saying salaam to my parents, she has created anomisity in the house. I took her out for a walk and tried to resolve the issue by talking to my wife outside the home environment whereby its just me and I said you MUST say salam to my parents, you cannot ignore them. But same situation she ignores them.

And the worst thing is when she leaves to go to work she EXPECTS my mum to look after my wee 14 old month baby, my mum is more than happy for it but that doesnt mean that she should take my mum for granted. Now im sure there have been others in my situation or know of someone in this situation, not all grandparents are that generous whereby they look after the young children, they might play with them for a bit, but not necessarily look after the grandchildren 8 hours every single day for 5 days a week. this is really tough on my parents as they are old and my mum is diabetic, but my wife has a very disdainful attitude towards everything, she says that if your parents are looking after the kid they are not doing any EHSAAN on us, i am completely dumfounded. How do i counter this argument, the farz lies on me and my wife to look after the kid not my parents so i dont see how she can say such a thing but she has that stuck in her head.

How do i tackle this? im feeling really hurt as i am caught in the middle, now im not saying my family cant get it wrong but they can however my wife is doubly wrong about a lot of things and i havent even told my parents this yet she wished death on my mum and dad when she was really angry, i was so shocked by this and said to her dont you dare say anything else but she always has an answer for anything and did not feel sorry for what she said, I can gurantee you that if it were any other husband he would have thrown her out of the house but for the wee ones sake i havent done that. I get the feeling she is provoking me and my family because she has heard you get social security in this country and she will have a life of luxury whereby she can work and get benefits for the wee one if she is a lone parent, i get the feeling that she is wanting me and my family to do something negative. I am so so stuck, please help me people.

Discuss with your wife that it’s possible that you guys can move out with the baby, or you can rent/buy a separate place for your parents.

But there are two challenges that will need to be planned and addressed.

1 You will spend half of your salary in taking care of their expenses.

2 - And she will need to spend half of her salary to take care of the cost of a babysitter/daycare if she wants to work.


Tell your parents that you want to move out on trial basis for a few months to see if that works out and makes things better? (It will be tough in the start but will get normal within a couple of months.)

If all parties agree, do it!

The problem is, there are three sides of a story.
Your side.
Their side
And the truth.

In your case, there are 4 sides of a story.

Other option is,

Start praying salah (you and your wife) with devotion, read a daily haseeth at home with your wife and discuss the virtues of practicing patience and forgiveness in the Islamic guidance.

If there is a good female tableeghi jamaat around, ask your wife to occasionally participate. Sometimes they have a good effect. A good company always does. You spend sometime with good religious scholars too.

Tell your wife and your mother to daily recite, “Lahola wallah Quwatta illah Billah”, at least 100 times a day.

Indeed it’s the satan that creates rifts between husband n wife.
Reciting this Qalima, protects against the whispers of shaitan. Guaranteed!

Also, Get marriage counseling from a good imam or a professional. (And these public forums are THE WORST POSSIBLE places to get such an advice).

Also, request your parents to forgive n forget.

Men, usually stay out of it but your dad’s indulgence indicates that your wife may have over reacted a little more then normal. Which doesn’t mean that you should start putting all blame on her and demean her. She may need the right guidance n support.
Stress from somewhere else, seems to have been let off at home.

 

[mazkhan]

It's not the job of the grandmother to cook the daughter in laws roti , a diabetic lady who is reaching old age looking after a baby is a big task in itself its not even the grabdmothers duty , both the son and daughter in law should be doing their kidhmat since paradise lies under her feet. I actually feel sorry for the grandmother and automatically think about my mother it brings tears to my eyes. You can find another wife but never another mother , brother plz look after your parents don't abandon them like most westerners do .

It seems this backhomer girl has a lot of attitude , probably thought life in the UK would be living in castle like a princess with servents at foot doing the chores , brutal reality of the UK is different its a really hard and expensive place to live and these freshies get 300volt electric shock when they come to the UK and see the reality most workplaces are brutal and dog eat dog mentality.

 

[Itachi]

If Satan can create rift between husband and wife where both party should not be blamed, why a murderer is punished since its Satan who has forced him to do it who otherwise a very kind person?

 

[Mamoon]

[MENTION=139471]princeuk[/MENTION]

I am really sorry to hear about your situation. It must be terribly difficult for you. However, it is difficult to get a clear picture and the context when you are only exposed to one-side of the story.

If we could listen to your wife, maybe she will have a completely different story.

Based on my limited and one-sided understanding of the story, it seems that your wife had a different picture in mind when she decided to get married to someone in the UK.

She thought she would be living independently with her husband and wasn’t prepared for dealing with in-laws.

I would strictly advise against divorce. Yes it would have been a reasonable solution but not when you have a kid.

You might find yourself at peace if you end this marriage, but trust me, your child will suffer forever. Divorcing your partner after having children is the most selfish act.

Have you tried consulting her parents or her brother if she has one and is old enough?

Usually, Pakistani girls who have such attitude problems have been brought up in a family where their mothers are more dominant than their fathers.

Such girls expect their husbands to be timid cats as well, because that is what they have observed in their own family.

The only suggestion that I can give you at this point is to deal with it for now, hoping that things would change in the future.

It is still early days in your married life - a lot of marriage start like this but grow into very fruitful relationships.

 

[topspin]

I won’t mince my words. I’ll say it as it is. Based on your post you sound like a Joru Ka Ghulam.

No one is entitled to have chappatis made for them. Let alone expecting an apology for not making them.

I'll be blunt with you as well. You come across as someone who is very delusional.

I never claimed nor implied that his wife is entitled to chappatis. As mentioned by another poster on this thread, OP's mother made a passive aggressive move to only cook for him. The fact that you don't understand this shows you're not the sharpest tool in the shed.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

My advice to people who want to get married, especially in a country like Britain, is to make sure that before you get married you are in a financial position to provide a separate accommodation for your partner. In that way, it makes it easier to set certain boundaries before the irreconcilable differences creeps in.
If you and your partner are both working, then the best thing you can do is to have a place of your own so that things can be normalised at some point in future. You have a small family for now so it’s not going to be too much of a problem for you to find suitable and affordable accommodation.

 

[Vegitto1]

Your wife is in the wrong. Just like it’s not your wife’s responsibility to look after your parents, it is not your mum’s responsibility to make roti for her. She can get in the kitchen (where she is suppose to be in the first place) and make it herself.

You and your parents need to put up with her for a couple of years while your kid grows up and develops a sense of right and wrong.

Don’t argue with your wife or let your parents do it in front of the child because that’s what these women want so they can play the victim in the eyes of their kids.

Once your child is 7/10 years of age you and your parents will have developed a strong bond which is unlikely to break even you dump your wife coz the child will know who was in the wrong.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

My advice to people who want to get married, especially in a country like Britain, is to make sure that before you get married you are in a financial position to provide a separate accommodation for your partner. In that way, it makes it easier to set certain boundaries before the irreconcilable differences creeps in.
If you and your partner are both working, then the best thing you can do is to have a place of your own so that things can be normalised at some point in future. You have a small family for now so it’s not going to be too much of a problem for you to find suitable and affordable accommodation.

Many women are happy living with a joint family set up.

However, the onus is on the husbands family to accommodate this set-up and make it an environment where the wife is comfortable and supported., but for this to happen the husband must man up and stamp his authority on the home. It isn't easy to do this in a society like ours where elders are right by default and that's where the problems arise....but I have seen for a fact many wives ( especially those with demanding jobs) flourish in this type of environment.

While it can be an issue in some marriages, from my experience many women make it an excuse for their behaviour. Take them from that house into their own property and similar issues with attitude towards the marriage will kick in.

The major issue I see with arranged marriages back from back home is often the lack of level footing between the couples. Men marrying back in Pakistan will expect a woman to be degree educated, good looking, respectful to parents and a good housewife, while they are working a menial job driving taxis.

The woman family agree to match for the sake of a UK passport - but when the woman gets here she is deeply frustrated at the way her life has turned out. Her sisters back home enjoy a better quality of living and the British passport has not enriched her life in any way.

I'm not saying that the above is the case for the OP but what he must do is take the bull by the horns and take control of his life. He needs to ensure that he is striving to be at his best physically and in terms of his career and he must ensure that he understands what he wants in life. It's ok to be close to your parents but you need to draw the line between being close and being overly dependent.

Sailing around aimlessly and hoping things work out wont cut it.

 

[GoUgandaCranes]

Have you tried to learn to cook and share the housework with your wife?

 

[in_cutter]

Your mother, knowing that you both were at work..should have made four roti. There is more to this than this incident.

Best solution: move out.

 

[Waq]

Please ignore any direct advice and please do what you feel is right in your heart and mind. Marriages and relationship are far too complex to get advice on a forum and there are far too much emotional, psychological, gas lighting and even younger years trauma that maybe present that we are not aware of.

There was some general advice by a poster that divorce when you have children should be a last resort and that seems sensible.

If I could give some more general advice then it takes two people with the right desire for a marriage to work. Only you two can answer this even if the other party gives a reply you don’t like, it’s necessary to know.

 

[Yossarian]

It all started off as she is working now, as we are both working then my parents have to look after the wee one which is fine its what they want as they completely dot on the wee one.
....

And the worst thing is when she leaves to go to work she EXPECTS my mum to look after my wee 14 old month baby, my mum is more than happy for it but that doesnt mean that she should take my mum for granted. .

So what is it that you want? For your wife to stop working and look after the little one?

or do you expect her to take the little one to work with her?

or perhaps get child care that you pay for?

Besides, if you're both working, why should it be solely her responsibility to look after after the child? Why not you? Similarly, if you come home from work earlier than she does, why don't you make the roti/ food? Why should she be the one to look after the child as well as do the cooking and housework, on top of going out to work, whilst you sit on your backside after coming home from work?

Unless she's a cousin, or similar, where the marriage is more of an arrangement by the parents of keeping their brothers/sisters happy by marrying off their kids to each other, it's very likely she's probably more educated than you as well as being from a wealthier background (and probably also very good looking), meaning that you wanted a good looking educated wife, compared with the options available to you here in the UK, whilst she / her parents wanted 'a UK visa' for her.

 

[Itachi]

I'll be blunt with you as well. You come across as someone who is very delusional.

I never claimed nor implied that his wife is entitled to chappatis. As mentioned by another poster on this thread, OP's mother made a passive aggressive move to only cook for him. The fact that you don't understand this shows you're not the sharpest tool in the shed.

I agree. The mother is very passive aggressive and when you deal with such kind of person, you will be bad guy even if you aren't at fault because they are master at manipulating people.

The mother will never outright fight with the daughter in law but she will find new ways to trigger her only to show that her daughter in law is unreasonable whilst behind the scenes it is her passive aggressive actions which has caused so much issues in the first place.

People here are thinking only about chapattis but my advice to those people, it is just a symptom but not the root cause of the consequences.

The mother is a bad sign in this marriage for her behavior.

 

[Itachi]

So what is it that you want? For your wife to stop working and look after the little one?

or do you expect her to take the little one to work with her?

or perhaps get child care that you pay for?

Besides, if you're both working, why should it be solely her responsibility to look after after the child? Why not you? Similarly, if you come home from work earlier than she does, why don't you make the roti/ food? Why should she be the one to look after the child as well as do the cooking and housework, on top of going out to work, whilst you sit on your backside after coming home from work?

Unless she's a cousin, or similar, where the marriage is more of an arrangement by the parents of keeping their brothers/sisters happy by marrying off their kids to each other, it's very likely she's probably more educated than you as well as being from a wealthier background (and probably also very good looking), meaning that you wanted a good looking educated wife, compared with the options available to you here in the UK, whilst she / her parents wanted 'a UK visa' for her.

On top of that, just think about it.... Instead of having a conversation with her, the guy is ranting in a random forum. The priorities are messed up.

 

[globalcitizen]

Hello. I understand you might be going through lot of stress because of this developing situation.

The worst thing you can do at this moment is not taking things in your hands and letting things drift hoping things get better, it will never get better.

You should start a communication with your wife and parents separately and understand their point of view. Then try to bring everyone together and try to resolve the differences. Both of them should understand how everyone is contributing in their own way to run the family.

Another point to remember is, don't force any opinion in an argument and try to be authoritative and don't take anybody's side and calm the situation. Never try to say even little things and exacerbate the situation it's like oxygen to fire.

And please love your wife and show unconditional love in front of others, just like you show to your parents.

Divorce and legal proceedings should not be in your mind at this stage without trying anything.

And I agree you should be ready to move out, may be rent out and still be close to your parents and look after them.

Good luck sir!

 

[sweep_shot]

Just move out. It can resolve the issues hopefully.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Now my marriage started off badly due to my wifes very arrogant attitude and disdainful attitude towards me

That right there is a major problem. It seems like she just doesn't think that much of you so it's not a great match. Not sure how you will fix that.

Living with parents must be a strain I'm sure, but on the other hand, they are looking after your kid, and that is always a headache for a young family on their own.

 

[dildilpak]

Joint families never work, period. It might have worked in the last century when women were expected to take care of elders, home & child, but not when you are married to an educated, working woman whose expectations from family is very different from your parent’s generation.

Let me be blunt here - the child is yours & your wife’s. If you think your mom is stretching herself taking care of the child, YOU should proactively put the child in a daycare, but under no circumstances your wife should be made to feel beholden to your parents for a decision you jointly took with your parents. And at the end of a long day at work, if your mother was making rotis for you & not for her DIL, the optics do look bad - imagine if the tables were turned & it was her mother treating you like an outsider.

But at the same time, your wife should also not sulk for such a small incident. Yes, people do say something in anger without actually meaning it, but one should learn to let the non-important things slide.

And OP, as others have suggested it might be better for your child’s sake if you move out - as the child gets older she/he will be affected in this toxic environment. You dont have to stay with the parents to take care of them - you can easily stay nearby in a separate house & keep an eye on them. But at a minimum, please put the child in a daycare so that nobody needs to feel obligated to the other.

 

[KingKhanWC]

OP imo ignore those advising you, you're mother may be in the wrong in any way.

As you say your parents are elderly, your wife is fortunate to come to the UK.

You can replace your wife but you cannot replace your mother. If I was in your shoes, Id tell the wife to respect the parents esp the mother or go back to the Pind & enjoy the life there.

 

[rhony]

Hire a nanny that can take care of your kid and cook. Problem solved as no one owes anything to anybody. Your wife is not wrong in expecting food when your mom is already cooking for you. At the same time, your wife shouldn't be expecting your mom to take care of the kid and also cook for both of you. That's not parents are there for. It's the last few years of their life and they should live happily without any responsibilities.

 

[dildilpak]

OP imo ignore those advising you, you're mother may be in the wrong in any way.

As you say your parents are elderly, your wife is fortunate to come to the UK.

You can replace your wife but you cannot replace your mother. If I was in your shoes, Id tell the wife to respect the parents esp the mother or go back to the Pind & enjoy the life there.

Typical desi attitude - worship the mother, berate the wife. The OPs wife is not just his wife- she is also the mother of his kid & deserves equal respect for that. Moreso when she is also
contributing to the family coffers. You might think that the OP has done a huge favor on her for bestowing on her the gift of a UK residency, but there are many girls (including my extended family) who are doing well personally & professionally even back home. That superior attitude is what sinks a marriage.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Typical desi attitude - worship the mother, berate the wife. The OPs wife is not just his wife- she is also the mother of his kid & deserves equal respect for that. Moreso when she is also
contributing to the family coffers. You might think that the OP has done a huge favor on her for bestowing on her the gift of a UK residency, but there are many girls (including my extended family) who are doing well personally & professionally even back home. That superior attitude is what sinks a marriage.

Not sure what religion you are but Muslims dont worship anyone but God. The mother is the most important after God. OP mentioned his mother is elderly and suffering from illness. Any woman who wont say Salaam to an elderly unwell woman has a disease inside her heart. If she's doing so well, why come to work in England, possibly a factory or warehouse. If Im wrong and she is working city of London, I can understand.

Its clear you'd disown your parents if your wife ordered you to do so. Others see things differently.

 

[dildilpak]

Not sure what religion you are but Muslims dont worship anyone but God. The mother is the most important after God. OP mentioned his mother is elderly and suffering from illness. Any woman who wont say Salaam to an elderly unwell woman has a disease inside her heart. If she's doing so well, why come to work in England, possibly a factory or warehouse. If Im wrong and she is working city of London, I can understand.

Its clear you'd disown your parents if your wife ordered you to do so. Others see things differently.

So if his mother is elderly, why is the OP asking him to take care of his kid & why is he letting her cook for him? If his wife is coming home tired after a long day at work, couldnt he have fixed some dinner for her? Whatever my religion might be, i wouldnt let my elderly mother be an unpaid nanny or let my wife bear the full responsibility of my child Why should his wife bear the brunt of his obligations towards his parents?

Many parents these days themselves dont want to stay with the grownup kids for this simple reason - the kids treat them as unpaid caregivers for grandkids. Better live separately & have better relations than have everybody living under a same roof in a toxic environment.

 

[khan-92]

In this case its the parents who are looking after their kid. Thats thousands or tens of thousands pounds saved on day care.

Yeah he needs to decide whats important saving marriage or saving money.

 

[KingKhanWC]

So if his mother is elderly, why is the OP asking him to take care of his kid & why is he letting her cook for him? If his wife is coming home tired after a long day at work, couldnt he have fixed some dinner for her? Whatever my religion might be, i wouldnt let my elderly mother be an unpaid nanny or let my wife bear the full responsibility of my child Why should his wife bear the brunt of his obligations towards his parents?

Many parents these days themselves dont want to stay with the grownup kids for this simple reason - the kids treat them as unpaid caregivers for grandkids. Better live separately & have better relations than have everybody living under a same roof in a toxic environment.

This is what mothers do. They will sacrifice and show love to their grandchildren. His mother and father are both looking after the child, so she can go work , save up and get her own place.

You've come from another country, living in a house owned by your in laws and you have the gual to disrepsect them by not even saying Salaam. They are also bringing up your child. You should be grateful, chill your ego and show some damn respect. Or simple, go back to Pakistan to your own parents. You must live in a different universe.

 

[Pakpak]

So what is it that you want? For your wife to stop working and look after the little one?

or do you expect her to take the little one to work with her?

or perhaps get child care that you pay for?

Besides, if you're both working, why should it be solely her responsibility to look after after the child? Why not you? Similarly, if you come home from work earlier than she does, why don't you make the roti/ food? Why should she be the one to look after the child as well as do the cooking and housework, on top of going out to work, whilst you sit on your backside after coming home from work?

Unless she's a cousin, or similar, where the marriage is more of an arrangement by the parents of keeping their brothers/sisters happy by marrying off their kids to each other, it's very likely she's probably more educated than you as well as being from a wealthier background (and probably also very good looking), meaning that you wanted a good looking educated wife, compared with the options available to you here in the UK, whilst she / her parents wanted 'a UK visa' for her.

Absolutely this. The entitlement is hilarious. Joint systems are a recipe for disasters and in my experience of people who I know it has failed more times than it has worked. The making 2 rotis and not 4 means there are previous events of bad blood which we don't know about.

Also if there is a joint system and both parents do work it shouldn't be unreasonable for the saas susr to keep an eye on the baby. If they are unwilling or don't want to then maybe OP and his wife shouldn't both work or spend some money towards day care. I mean these are pretty obvious solutions.

 

[Pakpak]

I never claimed nor implied that his wife is entitled to chappatis. As mentioned by another poster on this thread, OP's mother made a passive aggressive move to only cook for him.

Yup this as well. She knew it would hit the wrong buttons, which is why there is more to this one sided story OP is telling us.

 

[dildilpak]

This is what mothers do. They will sacrifice and show love to their grandchildren. His mother and father are both looking after the child, so she can go work , save up and get her own place.

You've come from another country, living in a house owned by your in laws and you have the gual to disrepsect them by not even saying Salaam. They are also bringing up your child. You should be grateful, chill your ego and show some damn respect. Or simple, go back to Pakistan to your own parents. You must live in a different universe.

Lets us be clear - the OP didnt do a favor on a Pakistani girl by marrying her - he married her because he wanted to. His wife alone is not obliged to her in-laws, they BOTH are - and if thats creating a bad blood, either they can get a daycare/nanny or one of the OP or wife can mutually decide to quit job & take care of the baby. But the lady is definitely not more obliged than the OP.

The lady definitely needs to learn some respect for elders but the OP too has definitely some antiquated ideas of what a working woman’s role should be in a home.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Absolutely this. The entitlement is hilarious. Joint systems are a recipe for disasters and in my experience of people who I know it has failed more times than it has worked. The making 2 rotis and not 4 means there are previous events of bad blood which we don't know about.

Also if there is a joint system and both parents do work it shouldn't be unreasonable for the saas susr to keep an eye on the baby. If they are unwilling or don't want to then maybe OP and his wife shouldn't both work or spend some money towards day care. I mean these are pretty obvious solutions.

I think everyone is reading too much into this. Its hardly manual labour to come home and make fresh rotis for yourself even if your husband had some made for him. To me it seems the wife is looking for excuses to fall out.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Lets us be clear - the OP didnt do a favor on a Pakistani girl by marrying her - he married her because he wanted to. His wife alone is not obliged to her in-laws, they BOTH are - and if thats creating a bad blood, either they can get a daycare/nanny or one of the OP or wife can mutually decide to quit job & take care of the baby. But the lady is definitely not more obliged than the OP.

The lady definitely needs to learn some respect for elders but the OP too has definitely some antiquated ideas of what a working woman’s role should be in a home.

We dont know the background of this marriage.

What we do know is she is living in her in laws house. Clearly they dont have their own place and are working towards it. If in future your daughter in law moved in with you, I assume you would at the least expect respect and for her to talk to you in a civilised manner. When you live in someone elses house, you are obliged to respect the owners. Crying over two chappaties and then not talking is disrepect.

 

[ElRaja]

i may be in the minority here, but taking your word for the situation your wife sounds like a load of hassle. i think rather than take a softly softly approach you should have set out boundaries early on when it came to her disrespecting your parents.

people often test boundaries and see how much they can get away with, and you sound like a rather non-confrontational and timid man, and women in particular find that really hard to respect, and the way u describe things that sounds like the case.

if she knew she was moving into a joint family system then she has nothing to complain about, unless you lied to her about it before the marriage. now u have a kid and that complicates things, but lets be real here, growing up in a loveless bitter household isnt a particularly great upbringing.

 

[NodusTollens]

Issue is not that your mom is entitled to take care of your wife but rather that she is expected to treat daughter-in-law as her own daughter and no different than you once your wife leaves her family and your family takes responsibility for her.

Your wife would probably expect that your mother would either pamper both of you on occasion or pamper neither of you. If she dotes on you without doing the same to her, it will obviously cause a rift.

Your mother didn't do anything wrong and was just consciously pampering you but I can understand why your wife felt offended.

 

[Gayle_Force]

IMO the problem is joint family system, it just doesn't work especially in western countries. If you really do want this marriage to work than start finding a path to moving out of your parents home. There is simply no other way of resolution.

 

[Pakpak]

I think everyone is reading too much into this. Its hardly manual labour to come home and make fresh rotis for yourself even if your husband had some made for him. To me it seems the wife is looking for excuses to fall out.

Yes but my point is there is more to the story than 2 & 4 rotis.

Noone in his house likes each other by looks of it so the start of this all isn't rotis. Its more deep rooted and we only have OPs word for it.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Yes but my point is there is more to the story than 2 & 4 rotis.

Noone in his house likes each other by looks of it so the start of this all isn't rotis. Its more deep rooted and we only have OPs word for it.

Its likely there are deeper issues.

But regardless of any past, when you live in someone elses house, you respect them. No ifs for buts, or move out in the morning into a hotel. She cant have it both ways.

 

[Gayle_Force]

How do i tackle this? im feeling really hurt as i am caught in the middle, now im not saying my family cant get it wrong but they can however my wife is doubly wrong about a lot of things and i havent even told my parents this yet she wished death on my mum and dad when she was really angry, i was so shocked by this and said to her dont you dare say anything else but she always has an answer for anything and did not feel sorry for what she said, I can gurantee you that if it were any other husband he would have thrown her out of the house but for the wee ones sake i havent done that. I get the feeling she is provoking me and my family because she has heard you get social security in this country and she will have a life of luxury whereby she can work and get benefits for the wee one if she is a lone parent, i get the feeling that she is wanting me and my family to do something negative. I am so so stuck, please help me people.

That doesn't make much sense as she would not need you or your family to do something negative in order to get social security as a single parent (assuming you're the higher income earner). Reading your story, it seems pretty clear that you are viewing everything through your and your parent's lens and may have not given enough consideration to what your wife might be feeling or going through (the chapatis were not the problem, there is an underlying issue).

 

[in_cutter]

The roti incident is petty tbh

So far from what I have seen in Asian households, mother-daughter in law relationships are always sour.

 

[topspin]

I agree. The mother is very passive aggressive and when you deal with such kind of person, you will be bad guy even if you aren't at fault because they are master at manipulating people.

The mother will never outright fight with the daughter in law but she will find new ways to trigger her only to show that her daughter in law is unreasonable whilst behind the scenes it is her passive aggressive actions which has caused so much issues in the first place.

People here are thinking only about chapattis but my advice to those people, it is just a symptom but not the root cause of the consequences.

The mother is a bad sign in this marriage for her behavior.

Yup this as well. She knew it would hit the wrong buttons, which is why there is more to this one sided story OP is telling us.

Exactly and I'm struggling to understand why some cannot look beyond the 2 x missed out rotis. It is the intent and bad blood that is apparent between the mother and the wife of the OP.

I agree that it is more than likely that there is more to this story than the one stated by the OP.

But going by the information given, since that's all we can go by, the mother has to apologise or make amends. I would strongly advise OP to persuade his her to do this even if she's totally innocent in all this.

Living with in-laws is always going to be problematic in the 21st century, and I get told every time "so and so is having problems with his wife at home because of the animosity between her and his parents". The reality is it's difficult to make it work.

The way I see it you can't expect to treat your wife justly if you make her live with your parents especially in today's world.

 

[Gayle_Force]

Its likely there are deeper issues.

But regardless of any past, when you live in someone elses house, you respect them. No ifs for buts, or move out in the morning into a hotel. She cant have it both ways.

Its not clear from the OP that she is willingly living in the joint family system.

 

[Gayle_Force]

Exactly and I'm struggling to understand why some cannot look beyond the 2 x missed out rotis. It is the intent and bad blood that is apparent between the mother and the wife of the OP.

I agree that it is more than likely that there is more to this story than the one stated by the OP.

But going by the information given, since that's all we can go by, the mother has to apologise or make amends. I would strongly advise OP to persuade his her to do this even if she's totally innocent in all this.

Living with in-laws is always going to be problematic in the 21st century, and I get told every time "so and so is having problems with his wife at home because of the animosity between her and his parents". The reality is it's difficult to make it work.

The way I see it you can't expect to treat your wife justly if you make her live with your parents especially in today's world.

I would refrain from making either person apologize as it will likely make things worse in the relationship, just my two cents. But yea the best thing would be to find a path to moving out.

 

[from_da_lost_dim3nsion]

Bro I got the solution to your problems. Go save your marriage .

 

[KingKhanWC]

Its not clear from the OP that she is willingly living in the joint family system.

This is the UK, nobody can FORCE anyone to live anywere. By the sounds of the OP, she wears the trousers not him. Seems just a bitter person.

The more I think about this , I would urge the OP to get divorced now , marry someone who has manners and respect. It wont be easy after a couple of more kids. Plenty of fish in the sea. as they say.

 

[in_cutter]

This is the UK, nobody can FORCE anyone to live anywere. By the sounds of the OP, she wears the trousers not him. Seems just a bitter person.

The more I think about this , I would urge the OP to get divorced now , marry someone who has manners and respect. It wont be easy after a couple of more kids. Plenty of fish in the sea. as they say.

Wow. Not the best advice is it? In Islam, divorce is the last resort. You are overreacting. All they need to do is move out. As others have pointed out, the roti incident was petty by the mother.

 

[dildilpak]

This is the UK, nobody can FORCE anyone to live anywere. By the sounds of the OP, she wears the trousers not him. Seems just a bitter person.

The more I think about this , I would urge the OP to get divorced now , marry someone who has manners and respect. It wont be easy after a couple of more kids. Plenty of fish in the sea. as they say.

Dont think you are married or have kids else you would have never given this suggestion - why would you condemn a child to live in a split family? You want the guy to forsake his child to please his parents?

There is probably more to this story than meets the eye - we have only heard from the guy’s point of view, but not his wife’s. Maybe the wife has genuine issues with the MIL or maybe not. As a modern educated woman she might have real issues adjusting with trafditional inlaws who might have hoped for a typical, docile daughter in law. Condemning a woman just because she doesnt fit your mold of an Islamic wife is rather archaic.

 

[Gayle_Force]

Wow. Not the best advice is it? In Islam, divorce is the last resort. You are overreacting. All they need to do is move out. As others have pointed out, the roti incident was petty by the mother.

Thats a bit extreme imo and trust me even if OP finds another person it will likely reach the same situation within two years. Western societies are not meant for joint family living. The best solution is to find a way to move out for sure for everyone's sake.

 

[Vegitto1]

Whatever you do, don’t abandon your parents. You can get another wife, you can have more kids but you can never get another mother or father.

 

[Rana]

Move out. Pay for childcare at a nursery who keep the child 9-6. This is affordable with 2 decent wages.

On a personal note, I feel kind of annoyed that your mum made 2 rotis just for you. I can understand she was tired but then she should not have just cooked for you and left the girl to feed herself

 

[Stewie]

That’s a very typical Pakistani In-laws behavior for some cases.

They will make food for you but not your wife.

They will make food for their daughter and her husband but they won’t do it for their daughter in law, and yet when they talk to others they claim she is like their daughter. Truth is, she will never be their daughter, and they will never be her parents in her eyes no matter how hard they try.

Our women (sometimes men as well) are sometimes not refined enough to deal with these situations. These issues are the hottest selling drama topics in Pakistan (go figure) haha.

Nobody is a saint in such situations. Best option is to keep your parents and wife separately if you can. If not, just deal with these issues as they arise. With a young kid, if you divorce you will be worse off.

 

[in_cutter]

Whatever you do, don’t abandon your parents. You can get another wife, you can have more kids but you can never get another mother or father.

So it’s ok to get another wife & effectively abandon the kid just like that? By moving out, he won’t be abandoning he’s parents.

 

[Stewie]

It’s so easy to say such things. Kids lives are ruined through divorce. A ridiculous notion. In Islam, a daughter in life is not obligated to take care of her in laws and neither are the in laws obligated to take care of their daughter in law or grand children. In a joint system, it’s all a matter of compromise. She should not have thrown a fit over this but at the same time, the saas shouldn’t be such a typical saas.

Stay together, try to make it work.

 

[Realromeo]

The problem is you, you are letting this happening. Tell your mother and wife both to cut this out. Also man up OP.

 

[offstump]

There just aren’t enough details here to provide proper advice. OP, if you can’t handle this yourself seek professional help or marriage counselling. One thing that’s clear to me is you aren’t communicating effectively with your wife, nobody on this forum is going to provide you with silver bullet advice that will solve all your problems overnight. Only you and your wife can solve your problems, together.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

This is the UK, nobody can FORCE anyone to live anywere. By the sounds of the OP, she wears the trousers not him. Seems just a bitter person.

The more I think about this , I would urge the OP to get divorced now , marry someone who has manners and respect. It wont be easy after a couple of more kids. Plenty of fish in the sea. as they say.

Terrible advice.

First, the wife should NOT have to live with the mans parents as per Islam.

Second, the son is RESPONSIBLE for all provision of food to all family members. The wife is NOT there to cook chapatis and make the mans stomach full. As per Islam, if a man marries a woman, he is OBLIGATED to feed her.

3. Respect is necessary I agree but it works both ways. We dont know the semantics of this relationship and you have word one side or the story and have assumed that wife is at FAULT without even hearing the other side from her.

4. It is the SONS responsibility to take care of his parents. The wife DOES NOT EVEN HAVE TO MAKE ONE CUP OF TEA for his parents as per Islam. She can do it it, out of her goodness but its not OBLIGATED on her.

5. The wife should be ENTITLED to an INDEPENDENT place if they both can afford it and as per Islam shouldnt have to live WITH HIS PARENTS.

6. She married him, not his parents.

Let me remind you, this is the rights of Islam about women.

This is not the desi Pakistani culture you are enforcing here by trying to force male dominance and potential divorce.

Just a terrible advice mate.

 

[dildilpak]

Terrible advice.

First, the wife should NOT have to live with the mans parents as per Islam.

Second, the son is RESPONSIBLE for all provision of food to all family members. The wife is NOT there to cook chapatis and make the mans stomach full. As per Islam, if a man marries a woman, he is OBLIGATED to feed her.

3. Respect is necessary I agree but it works both ways. We dont know the semantics of this relationship and you have word one side or the story and have assumed that wife is at FAULT without even hearing the other side from her.

4. It is the SONS responsibility to take care of his parents. The wife DOES NOT EVEN HAVE TO MAKE ONE CUP OF TEA for his parents as per Islam. She can do it it, out of her goodness but its not OBLIGATED on her.

5. The wife should be ENTITLED to an INDEPENDENT place if they both can afford it and as per Islam shouldnt have to live WITH HIS PARENTS.

6. She married him, not his parents.

Let me remind you, this is the rights of Islam about women.

This is not the desi Pakistani culture you are enforcing here by trying to force male dominance and potential divorce.

Just a terrible advice mate.

Agree with you.

And OP you have to understand- your mom’s act of not making rotis for all of you except her DIL can be easily interpreted by anyone as excluding her from your family circle. The poor lady could have had a bad day at work just like we all do & instead of understanding her frustrations, you guys seem to be ganging up on her to make her feel obligated to your mother for taking care of her grandchild, which i am sure your mom is doing voluntarily & not because her DIL asked her to do so. All your sympathies seem to be towards your ageing mother & none towards your wife who is probably trying to balance her home, her baby & office duties the best she can.

If you wanted someone to take care of parents, child, home, etc you should have married a typical girl- not an educated, working woman. And if you chose to marry a working woman, dont try to enforce your antiquated ideas of desi parental obligation on her - you want your parents to take a break, YOU should go & put your child in the daycare.

There seems to be a huge trust deficit in your relationship with your wife - your thinking that she is out to dump you for social security benefits indicate that. You definitely need professional counseling to overcome that deficit - after all your child’s fate hangs in the balance. Good luck.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

A lot of Pakistani women from well to do families raised in Pakistan tend to be very spoiled and entitled. However, I don’t want to cast judgement on your wife without hearing her side of the story. Like someone said above, if you didn’t have a child I would advise you to divorce, but because you have such a small child I urge you to try your best to make the marriage work. At this point, perhaps your best option is to move out with your wife and child after talking to your parents. If finances are an issue then maybe you can rent a place to start since you’ll still have this current place to fall back on. Your child can still see his/her grandparents a lot and maybe the relationship between your parents and wife will get better with time and distance apart.

 

[sindhiboy]

It's not the job of the grandmother to cook the daughter in laws roti , a diabetic lady who is reaching old age looking after a baby is a big task in itself its not even the grabdmothers duty , both the son and daughter in law should be doing their kidhmat since paradise lies under her feet. I actually feel sorry for the grandmother and automatically think about my mother it brings tears to my eyes. You can find another wife but never another mother , brother plz look after your parents don't abandon them like most westerners do .

It seems this backhomer girl has a lot of attitude , probably thought life in the UK would be living in castle like a princess with servents at foot doing the chores , brutal reality of the UK is different its a really hard and expensive place to live and these freshies get 300volt electric shock when they come to the UK and see the reality most workplaces are brutal and dog eat dog mentality.

Ive heard of similar cases in my family friends circle. A new wife moving to europe with her husband and becoming disappointed with the way of life because of the smaller house, no domestic servants. The disappointment leads to divorce before moving back to pakistan.

Its expected for an average middle class household in pakistan to have servants and maids. Middle class europeons dont hire any domestic workers and at times even do the plumbing and electrician work themselves.
Pakistanis overestimate the standard of living in the west, especially in europe.

 

[emranabbas]

Does your wife have indefinite stay in UK? If she hasn't if I was you I would ship her back to Pakistan.

 

[Ryw]

Does your wife have indefinite stay in UK? If she hasn't if I was you I would ship her back to Pakistan.

On first available flight.
I completed your Sentence, how can she disrespect elders and pretend it as a norm.

 

[sindhiboy]

Ive just gone through the posts in the the original thread.I feel very sorry for OP. Also shocked at the posters still supporting the wife in this situation

 

[Yossarian]

I think everyone is reading too much into this. Its hardly manual labour to come home and make fresh rotis for yourself even if your husband had some made for him. To me it seems the wife is looking for excuses to fall out.

What a load of garbage.
If he comes home from work before she does, why doesn't he make the rotis instead of sitting on his 4rse waiting for her to come home from work and make the rotis. I'm betting he's some uneducated ***** (who went to school yes in the UK, like all kids do, but didn't learn anything), with some low paid menial job, but managed to land himself an intelligent, educated wife from Pakistan, and now expects her to look after the baby, do the cooking, cleaning and other housework, as well as going out to work.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

This is the UK, nobody can FORCE anyone to live anywere. By the sounds of the OP, she wears the trousers not him. Seems just a bitter person.

The more I think about this , I would urge the OP to get divorced now , marry someone who has manners and respect. It wont be easy after a couple of more kids. Plenty of fish in the sea. as they say.

Plenty more fish in the sea, but you have to be able to fish to get them. A lot of guys who get married in Pakistan do it because they can get a wife they would never be able to get here, so when you say plenty more fish in the sea, maybe choose a wife a bit more plain, a bit more docile who doesn't think so much of herself. This one's probably a looker who the OP wouldn't normally be able to attract without the UK passport.

 

[Yossarian]

Plenty more fish in the sea, but you have to be able to fish to get them. A lot of guys who get married in Pakistan do it because they can get a wife they would never be able to get here, so when you say plenty more fish in the sea, maybe choose a wife a bit more plain, a bit more docile who doesn't think so much of herself. This one's probably a looker who the OP wouldn't normally be able to attract without the UK passport.

This was obviously a marriage were both of them married each other not because of their attraction towards each other as individuals, but because they both offered each other what would normally be out of their reach considering their own circumstances. Him obtaining a good looking, educated, girl from an 'upmarket' background in Pakistan, and she obtaining visa-ticket for a life in the West.

At least she's knuckled down, got a job and is going out to work (as well as probably cleaning, cooking and looking after the baby when she gets home) whilst he sits around on his backside after coming home from work.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

This was obviously a marriage were both of them married each other not because of their attraction towards each other as individuals, but because they both offered each other what would normally be out of their reach considering their own circumstances. Him obtaining a good looking, educated, girl from an 'upmarket' background in Pakistan, and she obtaining visa-ticket for a life in the West.

At least she's knuckled down, got a job and is going out to work (as well as probably cleaning, cooking and looking after the baby when she gets home) whilst he sits around on his backside after coming home from work.

Yeah, plus KKWC is saying to send her back to the pind, but more than likely she's not from the pind. She might well be well educated and normally out of OP's league, but the chance to come to the UK is seen as attractive.

I'm not having a go at the OP, but really this is not a good match if she's got so little respect for him from the start as he has said himself. It's a shame there's a kid involved, otherwise would probably be better to part ways and marry someone who will be willing to live with the parents and maybe somewhat plain and virtuous. I am sure there are plenty out there, you don't have to go for the ones who look like models.

 

[Pakpak]

On first available flight.
I completed your Sentence, how can she disrespect elders and pretend it as a norm.

Would you say the same if your mother did that?


Your posts come across as someone who is an incel with a deep hatred towards women. Pathetic

 

[Yossarian]

Yeah, plus KKWC is saying to send her back to the pind, but more than likely she's not from the pind. She might well be well educated and normally out of OP's league, but the chance to come to the UK is seen as attractive.

I'm not having a go at the OP, but really this is not a good match if she's got so little respect for him from the start as he has said himself. It's a shame there's a kid involved, otherwise would probably be better to part ways and marry someone who will be willing to live with the parents and maybe somewhat plain and virtuous. I am sure there are plenty out there, you don't have to go for the ones who look like models.

Divorce is a virtual certainty at some point given what he's posted. It may not happen for a few years yet. There may even be periods of harmony. They may even have more kids (I'm betting he's still demanding his conjugal rights and sowing his oats regularly despite the disharmony). But divorce WILL take place, perhaps when the kid(s) is/are a bit older and started school.

On balance, my sympathies are with her. Even after a divorce, it will be easier for him to find another wife (probably from Pakistan again) and move on with his life.

Whilst in her case, being a mother and a divorcee, it will be far more difficult. And that's without even taking into account that she's a desi/Asian girl, on her own in a foreign land, with her parents/family back home in Pakistan. For her, getting married again, as a desi divorcee and a mother, is going to be extremely difficult (unless, by then, she's obtained UK citizenship, and gets a husband from Pakistan - who, just as her originally, is after a UK-visa and life in the West).
On top of it all, the 'shame' her divorce will bring to her family in Pakistan will taint them for the rest of their lives too.

 

[Ahmad-GERMANFC]

So marriage has had issues and been a train wreck from the get-go but you still have a baby? It didn’t occur to you to sort all these problems out first before bringing a baby into the mix. You had a baby ASAP

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Terrible advice.

First, the wife should NOT have to live with the mans parents as per Islam.

Second, the son is RESPONSIBLE for all provision of food to all family members. The wife is NOT there to cook chapatis and make the mans stomach full. As per Islam, if a man marries a woman, he is OBLIGATED to feed her.

3. Respect is necessary I agree but it works both ways. We dont know the semantics of this relationship and you have word one side or the story and have assumed that wife is at FAULT without even hearing the other side from her.

4. It is the SONS responsibility to take care of his parents. The wife DOES NOT EVEN HAVE TO MAKE ONE CUP OF TEA for his parents as per Islam. She can do it it, out of her goodness but its not OBLIGATED on her.

5. The wife should be ENTITLED to an INDEPENDENT place if they both can afford it and as per Islam shouldnt have to live WITH HIS PARENTS.

6. She married him, not his parents.

Let me remind you, this is the rights of Islam about women.

This is not the desi Pakistani culture you are enforcing here by trying to force male dominance and potential divorce.

Just a terrible advice mate.

I'm afraid that when marriage is described in the legal and religious technicalities that you have described then it is doomed.

Marriage isn't about enforcing your legal/religious rights. It's about working together to build a better life.

I mean if my wife evoked a religious principle saying she wouldn't want to make my mum a cup of tea because it's not religiously mandated, I'd think she had suffered a bump in the head.

Similarly if I feel like i am OBLIGATED to ensure my wife's stomach is full ( rather than wanting her to be happy and comfortable because I love her) then I'd probably be a bit nuts.

Your advice is unfortunately equally terrible.

Marriages are built on respect, tolerance and love. These can all be achieved via an arranged marriage also. Marriages are not successful after attempting to enforce rights to property or making demands based on scripture. Unfortunately in our culture we consider it a transactional arrangement where every give and take is recorded.

A loveless and respectless marriage will not succeed if you are living in a joint system or a house of your own that is the size of Buckingham Palace.

However, respect needs to start from a process of self respect. OP should aim to become the best husband he can be physically and in terms of career. Unfortunately no woman respects someone that is docile and timid.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Im not his biggest fan but OP should listen to some talks by Jordan Peterson. Hopefully it will spark some fire in his belly.