Michael Vaughan's Twitter feed after Manchester attack

[PakHammer]

Reading Michael Vaughan's twitter feed in the last couple of days has been an eye opener. Obviously upset by the tragic events in Manchester but wow this tweet. He deleted one tweet in response to an Adil Ray tweet which implied that that Moeen Ali in between test matches should ask any Muslim he does not know if they are a terrorist or not!!

Hope Moeen & Adil Rashid think twice before accepting an handshake from him let alone an interview.

 

[Arham_PakFan]

Bigoted fool.

 

[Slog]

its a sad time for native British folk

they are losing their country in front of their eyes and they can't do anything about it

 

[Markhor]

Right because if you ask someone if they're a terrorist or thinking about committing terrorism, they'll obviously admit to it.

Nice logic Michael.

Sick of this collective guilt nonsense. How am I or Moeen Ali or anyone else responsible for the actions of someone we don't know and not even from the same city ?

 

[Mamoon]

Think of it from his or the perspective of the other natives, who are quickly brushed aside as 'bigots'.

More than 90% of the terrorist attacks in the world are by Muslims, so how do you expect them to understand that Islam is not a terrorist religion? For them, the convenient justifications that Islam is a peaceful religion and the cliched statement that 'terrorists have no religion' etc. don't have any significance.

What would you think of Christianity if Christians would be causing terror all over the world in the name of religion?

It is very easy to call people 'bigots', but when you think from their perspective, this is not an easy time for them. If I was a non-Muslim, I would obviously be wary of any bearded Mullah type Muslim because I don't know what school of thought he belongs to.

It is the sad reality of Muslims and Islam in today's world and we have to embrace it. A lot of us would have had the same feelings and views if the shoe was on the other foot.

I should clarify that I am not specifically referring to this tweet which I think is quite stupid, but I'm referring to the general anti-Muslim/anti-Islam sentiment in the West.

 

[Pete Rose]

Think of it from his or the perspective of the other natives, who are quickly brushed aside as 'bigots'.

More than 90% of the terrorist attacks in the world are by Muslims, so how do you expect them to understand that Islam is not a terrorist religion? For them, the convenient justifications that Islam is a peaceful religion and the cliched statement that 'terrorists have no religion' etc. don't have any significance.

What would you think of Christianity if Christians would be causing terror all over the world in the name of religion?

It is very easy to call people 'bigots', but when you think from their perspective, this is not an easy time for them. If I was a non-Muslim, I would obviously be wary of any bearded Mullah type Muslim because I don't know what school of thought he belongs to.

It is the sad reality of Muslims and Islam in today's world and we have to embrace it. A lot of us would have had the same feelings and views if the shoe was on the other foot.

I should clarify that I am not specifically referring to this tweet which I think is quite stupid, but I'm referring to the general anti-Muslim/anti-Islam sentiment in the West.

Yes it's an extremist narrative to hold ppl to account that did not exist when the IRA was rampant in England

 

[wasimjunior]

This is a madness

 

[Robert]

Reminds me of the inner city riots of 1981 when the tabloids called on Lenny Henry to tell blacks to stop rioting. As if he was King of All Black People and could somehow control them.

I suppose Vaughan thought - Moeen is a peaceful and influential Muslim - he can intervene to stop the violence! - but Vaughan just comes across as clumsy and ignorant.

People feel angry and powerless in the face of such horror and want to help, but tweets are so immediate and go viral before the tweeter realises he has put his foot in it. Think before you press tweet!

 

[Bewal Express]

The majority of the attackers are drug crazed( Marijuana) maniacs and no amount of telling them will make an iota of difference to them. However as parents and as community members its our job to challenge the ideology that creates monsters. In our Society the usual answer is that its a Western Conspiracy and that the Muslims are totally innocent- where in fact the security services have saved 100`s of lives through their good work of stopping bombing plots. I would like the govt to openly challenge people that find the UK society not to their taste to pack their bags and go to a place which is more palatable to their tastes. I have lived in the UK all my life and i believe that we live in a tolerant and open society and this weeks horrendous murders have left me in state of shock. In my Islam our common humanity should take precedence over everything.

 

[Sherlock]

Calling them Muslims is like calling Donald Trump a Christian. He's not and nor are they with their ill-regard and hatred ensued characterisation of Western society.

The last few months with all these terror attacks one thing has really come to-the-fore and that is how these people that act on these atrocities have all "sinned". They've all drank alcohol, done drugs, and fornicated yet they see a video or an audio of something they think is against their rather pathetic and ironic "values" and they lose their collective minds.

I've grown up with the mantra if you don't follow the imam, follow the 5-pillars.

You shouldn't need someone to tell you what you should be doing. You have a brain, use it.

Stick together but also speak up against these morons.

Oh and btw, Moeen is highly respected figure in Birmingham. He's done a lot for charities ans not one person I know has anything bad to say about him.

 

[Mamoon]

Yes it's an extremist narrative to hold ppl to account that did not exist when the IRA was rampant in England

Few things to consider:

IRA were rampant in the UK; Muslim terrorists are rampant all over the globe. IRA did not specifically target innocent people; the ISIS/Muslim terrorists do. IRA had a clear political agenda, it was not purely due to religious reasons (although the Catholics played a role), unlike the ISIS.

Purely from a British perspective, the IRA was a bigger terror than the ISIS, but there are no parallels between the two from a global perspective.

 

[Syed1]

Ironically the bomber was a weed smoking, alcohol drinking, partying youth. Nothing Islamic about him, yet all Muslims are required to issue statements of apology for the whole community.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Think of it from his or the perspective of the other natives, who are quickly brushed aside as 'bigots'.

More than 90% of the terrorist attacks in the world are by Muslims, so how do you expect them to understand that Islam is not a terrorist religion? For them, the convenient justifications that Islam is a peaceful religion and the cliched statement that 'terrorists have no religion' etc. don't have any significance.

What would you think of Christianity if Christians would be causing terror all over the world in the name of religion?

It is very easy to call people 'bigots', but when you think from their perspective, this is not an easy time for them. If I was a non-Muslim, I would obviously be wary of any bearded Mullah type Muslim because I don't know what school of thought he belongs to.

It is the sad reality of Muslims and Islam in today's world and we have to embrace it. A lot of us would have had the same feelings and views if the shoe was on the other foot.

I should clarify that I am not specifically referring to this tweet which I think is quite stupid, but I'm referring to the general anti-Muslim/anti-Islam sentiment in the West.

No one is blaming anyone specific for the general anti-Muslim sentiment in the west it's understandable, but calling out an individual is completely wrong. How would you feel if Moin Khan had called on Yousuf Youhanna (when he was a Christian) to denounce the Christian nations during their attacks on Afghanistan?

 

[CricketCartoons]

Ironically the bomber was a weed smoking, alcohol drinking, partying youth. Nothing Islamic about him, yet all Muslims are required to issue statements of apology for the whole community.

So if he was a five time namazi, it was valid to expect all muslims to issue an apology?

 

[Sherlock]

I guess we'll be getting an apology note from Bush and Blair for why they kneeled and prayed in the name of Christianity when they gave the green light to kill hundreds and thousands of Iraqis and Afghanis, anytime now...

But hey, whatever.

 

[Syed1]

So if he was a five time namazi, it was valid to expect all muslims to issue an apology?

So hypothetical scenario:

A atheist goes and commits an act of terrorism. Even though he has a Christian name was born Christian, had baptism when he was born and went to Catholic school but he turned towards atheism when he grew up. Does that mean all of the Christian community should be blamed for the Atheist?

 

[s28]

Vaughan is basically a racist and war criminal enabler

'you're all the same and you have to be collectively punished'

He blocked me on twitter after I asked him what he did to 'shop' celebrated Yorkshire paedo Jimmy Savile

 

[jazbati]

Not Vaughan's fault. I feel for him. He's only expressing his anger. Could have chosen a better way but this happened in his home town I believe.

All we do is praise non Muslims who defend Muslims after these heinous attacks and attack the person by calling them bigots who shows some anger at Muslims. In between all that, forgetting everything about the attack or how to prevent these in the future.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Michael Vaughan is a known troll. Didn't know people at PakPassion take him seriously.

 

[troodon]

Ironically the bomber was a weed smoking, alcohol drinking, partying youth. Nothing Islamic about him, yet all Muslims are required to issue statements of apology for the whole community.

So a pot head was the culprit.

What has inspired him to commit this crime?

 

[Buffet]

Vaughan is a troll and his comments should be ignored.

 

[CricketCartoons]

So hypothetical scenario:

A atheist goes and commits an act of terrorism. Even though he has a Christian name was born Christian, had baptism when he was born and went to Catholic school but he turned towards atheism when he grew up. Does that mean all of the Christian community should be blamed for the Atheist?

lol, try reading again. If a practicing muslim committed the crime, should it be valid to expect all muslims to tender an apology. As you clearly raised his non islamic lifestyle to counter the demand for apology.

 

[s28]

Few things to consider:

IRA were rampant in the UK; Muslim terrorists are rampant all over the globe. IRA did not specifically target innocent people; the ISIS/Muslim terrorists do. IRA had a clear political agenda, it was not purely due to religious reasons (although the Catholics played a role), unlike the ISIS.

Purely from a British perspective, the IRA was a bigger terror than the ISIS, but there are no parallels between the two from a global perspective.

you really are ignorant; but you revel in your troll-like ignorance and everybody discounts your views so I won't bother showing you up

 

[s28]

Apparently the IRA were a bunch of nice guys who never targeted anybody

 

[Bewal Express]

So a pot head was the culprit.

What has inspired him to commit this crime?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-4539550/Is-marijuana-factor-jihadi-murders.html

 

[s28]

Important to realise most of British society is tolerant and open. Only a small minority vote for fascist or racist parties or buy fascist/racist newspapers.

So when people on twitter answered hatemongers like Piers Morgan or Michael Vaughan the RT/Like count was off the charts

 

[shaz619]

its a sad time for native British folk

they are losing their country in front of their eyes and they can't do anything about it

Not at all, we stand united. There will always be a couple of nimrods here and there but to get a better picture of the aftermath search #BritishThreatLevels on Twitter

 

[Mamoon]

No one is blaming anyone specific for the general anti-Muslim sentiment in the west it's understandable, but calling out an individual is completely wrong. How would you feel if Moin Khan had called on Yousuf Youhanna (when he was a Christian) to denounce the Christian nations during their attacks on Afghanistan?

That is why I said that I am not specifically referring to this tweet which I think is quite stupid. My general point was (and is) is that we are way too quick to label people bigots and what not because we perceive them as Islamophobic. If we take a little time to look at things from their perspective, we would realize that these are difficult times and Islamophobia to a great extent is justified considering the gifts Muslims keep giving to this world.

 

[enkidu_]

its a sad time for native British folk

they are losing their country in front of their eyes and they can't do anything about it

It's only London where exogenous populations are explicitly manifested for sociological reasons, but apparently a lot of the natives still take pride in the British Empire, perhaps they also like the multikillturalism it imposed on the rest of the world for few centuries, and thus would naturally like to enjoy it themselves (though I doubt Indian businessmen will engineer famines to kill few millions of indigenous British anytime soon.)

 

[Adil_94]

[MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION] he was like that then classmates and neighbours said in the last few years he had gotten increasingly religious and he had even been reported to an anti-terror hotline by two classmates for expressing radical views in class like saying suicide bombing is justified sometimes.

His dad was member of an Islamist opposition group to Gadaffi that fled Libya in the 90s for the U.K so he was exposed to Islamist ideology from an early age. And had spent considerable time in Libya with Islamists and Jihadists months before his attack.

It was pretty clear what motivated him it wasnt his drinking or weed smoking in his younger days. If he was still doing that we wouldnt have 20 + dead people in Manchester.

 

[shaz619]

you really are ignorant; but you revel in your troll-like ignorance and everybody discounts your views so I won't bother showing you up

He's a good poster, no need to insult my friend [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION]

Both of you make some good points but neither are immune to criticism, in this time though we should stand united; there are people who have died in our country, our people. Sure there are a number of root causes but throwing the kitchen sink at x or y serves no productive purpose regardless of your argument.

 

[last_knight]

Think of it from his or the perspective of the other natives, who are quickly brushed aside as 'bigots'.

More than 90% of the terrorist attacks in the world are by Muslims, so how do you expect them to understand that Islam is not a terrorist religion? For them, the convenient justifications that Islam is a peaceful religion and the cliched statement that 'terrorists have no religion' etc. don't have any significance.

What would you think of Christianity if Christians would be causing terror all over the world in the name of religion?

It is very easy to call people 'bigots', but when you think from their perspective, this is not an easy time for them. If I was a non-Muslim, I would obviously be wary of any bearded Mullah type Muslim because I don't know what school of thought he belongs to.

It is the sad reality of Muslims and Islam in today's world and we have to embrace it. A lot of us would have had the same feelings and views if the shoe was on the other foot.

I should clarify that I am not specifically referring to this tweet which I think is quite stupid, but I'm referring to the general anti-Muslim/anti-Islam sentiment in the West.

It depends upon one's definition of terrorism.

Palestine, Kashmir, Afghanistan, Iraq are Muslim countries and have lost hundreds of thousands of lives at the hands of oppressors.

If you think that those were not human and State Terrorism is a lesser evil. Or those were not natives from subjective nations.

People like Vaughan should be raising voice against their govts Alliance/Support for invading other countries and manipulating other nations. Otherwise it's not getting better any soon.

Btw, If one believes in current anti-Muslim sentiment, it means he/she supports massacres in Palestine, Kashmir, Iraq etc. There isn't another dimension to it.

 

[Adil_94]

But just poor comments by Vaughan esp considering he has interacted with and played with and against Muslims his whole life. Im sure he didnt expect a Pakistani player would bring a bomb onto the pitch during their encounters with England.

I get people being angry and upset but vaughan is just being stupid.

 

[Mamoon]

you really are ignorant; but you revel in your troll-like ignorance and everybody discounts your views so I won't bother showing you up

For someone who has (apparently) been brought up in the UK, you clearly don't have any understanding of the history of your own country, and considering how you address people, your education seems to be lacking as well. You might be an expert in finance, but unfortunately you don't know how to talk to people. Not to mention you can't even differentiate between a veil and a hijab.

Let me educate you very briefly to save your and my time. Unlike ISIS/Muslim terrorists, the IRA were primarily targeting important and prominent people like government officials. Just compare the number of times they have targeted the general public compared to the number of times the ISIS/Islamic terrorists have targeted the general public. The difference is quite astronomical. In addition, they were open to talks and have upheld the ceasefire. Good luck negotiating with ISIS. The difference is easy to see but I will walk you through it - the IRA was politically motivated; the ISIS is religiously motivated, which is far, far more dangerous. Once you start killing people for God rather than a piece of land, there is no way back.

Now think all of this through before you start comparing IRA with the ISIS. Run back to the Shares thread which is your field of expertise, don't expose yourself in other sections of the forum.

 

[Adil_94]

[MENTION=128087]last_knight[/MENTION] its not as simple as foreign policy. The manchester attacker was part of a family of anti Gadaffi Islamist activists. NATO helped them get what they want and get rid of Gadaffi who had crushed Islamists in Libya. Yet this guy still turned on the country that gave him and his family political asylum from the horrors of the
Gadaffi regime.

And i know plenty of Muslims who disagree with British foreign policy in the Middle East they dont blow up innocents you can channel your disagreement in many different ways.

 

[Mamoon]

It depends upon one's definition of terrorism.

Palestine, Kashmir, Afghanistan, Iraq are Muslim countries and have lost hundreds of thousands of lives at the hands of oppressors.

If you think that those were not human and State Terrorism is a lesser evil. Or those were not natives from subjective nations.

People like Vaughan should be raising voice against their govts Alliance/Support for invading other countries and manipulating other nations. Otherwise it's not getting better any soon.

Btw, If one believes in current anti-Muslim sentiment, it means he/she supports massacres in Palestine, Kashmir, Iraq etc. There isn't another dimension to it.

I absolutely agree, but people will always take religious terrorism more seriously than state/political terrorism. Unlike the U.S. and IRA, ISIS and Jihadis kill in the name of God for God. This strikes fear into the people's heart like nothing else does.

 

[Sherlock]

Maybe it'd help us all if our governments [U.S] included would stop arming factions of a segregated group to fight their battles, then when the crap hits the fan these same groups they armed come into the countries and try to decimate our way of living.

Btw that Morgan tweet is so ignorant, it's unbelievable this guy is on day-time-tv. Such an odious idiot.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

That is why I said that I am not specifically referring to this tweet which I think is quite stupid. My general point was (and is) is that we are way too quick to label people bigots and what not because we perceive them as Islamophobic. If we take a little time to look at things from their perspective, we would realize that these are difficult times and Islamophobia to a great extent is justified considering the gifts Muslims keep giving to this world.

Yes I saw your disclaimer which was added to the end of your post, but since we are talking about a specific person making a specific tweet, then how can you then make a general point in defence of it? Vaughan is a well known celebrity calling out well known international players on something they had no control over. You can't then make a general point about general Muslims and then say "oh but by the way I wasn't talking about this incident".

 

[last_knight]

[MENTION=128087]last_knight[/MENTION] its not as simple as foreign policy. The manchester attacker was part of a family of anti Gadaffi Islamist activists. NATO helped them get what they want and get rid of Gadaffi who had crushed Islamists in Libya. Yet this guy still turned on the country that gave him and his family political asylum from the horrors of the
Gadaffi regime.

And i know plenty of Muslims who disagree with British foreign policy in the Middle East they dont blow up innocents you can channel your disagreement in many different ways.

And [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] killing can never be justified. Be it suicide bombers or state inflicted. And both fuel each other. Vaughan addressing Muslim community is alright but he should have also addressed his govt.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

For someone who has (apparently) been brought up in the UK, you clearly don't have any understanding of the history of your own country, and considering how you address people, your education seems to be lacking as well. You might be an expert in finance, but unfortunately you don't know how to talk to people. Not to mention you can't even differentiate between a veil and a hijab.

Let me educate you very briefly to save your and my time. Unlike ISIS/Muslim terrorists, the IRA were primarily targeting important and prominent people like government officials. Just compare the number of times they have targeted the general public compared to the number of times the ISIS/Islamic terrorists have targeted the general public. The difference is quite astronomical. In addition, they were open to talks and have upheld the ceasefire. Good luck negotiating with ISIS. The difference is easy to see but I will walk you through it - the IRA was politically motivated; the ISIS is religiously motivated, which is far, far more dangerous. Once you start killing people for God rather than a piece of land, there is no way back.

Now think all of this through before you start comparing IRA with the ISIS. Run back to the Shares thread which is your field of expertise, don't expose yourself in other sections of the forum.

Your general premise is partially correct, but I should advise you, if you think the IRA were viewed more sympathetically by Brits because they were politically motivated and targeted govt officials, you couldn't be more wrong. The IRA were viewed as absolute scumbags attacking British heartlands and they did indeed strike terror among the civilian population. Bombs don't discriminate between politicians and the general public.

 

[Black Zero]

So if he was a five time namazi, it was valid to expect all muslims to issue an apology?

Yes (exception: weed smoking, alcohol drinking, partying muslim youth)

 

[Tera Gawaandi]

Ironically the bomber was a weed smoking, alcohol drinking, partying youth.

Above attributes and newly converts become most extremist Muslims, they have 'kar guzarne ki tammana' in their heart. Maybe this guy too had change of heart like Junaid Jamshed. They will party through youth then suddenly start lecturing you on Islam.

 

[s28]

Maybe a child can explain this to some of the less intelligent forum users

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The long view of terrorism in Britain <a href="https://t.co/ROsqEqKx1z">pic.twitter.com/ROsqEqKx1z</a></p>— Tom Wainwright (@t_wainwright) <a href="https://twitter.com/t_wainwright/status/867761850376695809">25 May 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Yossarian]

Few things to consider:

IRA were rampant in the UK; Muslim terrorists are rampant all over the globe. IRA did not specifically target innocent people; the ISIS/Muslim terrorists do. IRA had a clear political agenda, it was not purely due to religious reasons (although the Catholics played a role), unlike the ISIS.

Purely from a British perspective, the IRA was a bigger terror than the ISIS, but there are no parallels between the two from a global perspective.

"IRA did not specifically target innocent people"? What!
Try googling Enniskillen, or the Birmingham pub bombings. Just two amongst numerous examples.

Please don't make silly comments on topics you that don't have much knowledge about.

 

[Mamoon]

"IRA did not specifically target innocent people"? What!
Try googling Enniskillen, or the Birmingham pub bombings. Just two amongst numerous examples.

Please don't make silly comments on topics you that don't have much knowledge about.

Again, please compare the number of 'innocent' casualties. Perhaps I should have worded my statement better, because I did not intend to say that the IRA never killed innocent people. Perhaps the word 'specifically' caused some confusion. I don't consider myself a specialist on either IRA and ISIS/Jihadis, but I know enough to know that the latter is worse than the former from a general perspective. For the British, IRA was certainly a bigger devil.

 

[Mamoon]

Your general premise is partially correct, but I should advise you, if you think the IRA were viewed more sympathetically by Brits because they were politically motivated and targeted govt officials, you couldn't be more wrong. The IRA were viewed as absolute scumbags attacking British heartlands and they did indeed strike terror among the civilian population. Bombs don't discriminate between politicians and the general public.

I already stated in my original post that the IRA was worse for the British compared to the ISIS. However, I was taking a global view. The ISIS have created terror in a greater number of country in the name of religion. Non-British people certainly fear them more than the IRA, and that is because of their widespread network and the way they kill in the name of religion. Unlike IRA, they are not going to settle for ceasefire either. The only solution of getting rid of ISIS terrorism is to eliminate the faction from its roots.

You may be surprised to know that there quite a few people - and educated ones - in Pakistan and others places who haven't even heard of the IRA, but the same cannot be said about the ISIS and the impact they have had on the world. Again, not taking a British POV here.

 

[Mamoon]

And [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] killing can never be justified. Be it suicide bombers or state inflicted. And both fuel each other. Vaughan addressing Muslim community is alright but he should have also addressed his govt.

It cannot be, but a group of people killing people in the name of God will always create more terror than a state's foreign policy.

 

[Mamoon]

Yes I saw your disclaimer which was added to the end of your post, but since we are talking about a specific person making a specific tweet, then how can you then make a general point in defence of it? Vaughan is a well known celebrity calling out well known international players on something they had no control over. You can't then make a general point about general Muslims and then say "oh but by the way I wasn't talking about this incident".

Yes I can see that, this isn't the right thread to have a general discussion on this topic.

 

[Yossarian]

Again, please compare the number of 'innocent' casualties. Perhaps I should have worded my statement better, because I did not intend to say that the IRA never killed innocent people. Perhaps the word 'specifically' caused some confusion. I don't consider myself a specialist on either IRA and ISIS/Jihadis, but I know enough to know that the latter is worse than the former from a general perspective. For the British, IRA was certainly a bigger devil.

3,568 deaths during the conflict, of which 1,879 civilians killed and many thousands injured (by both sides).

 

[Mamoon]

3,568 deaths during the conflict, of which 1,879 civilians killed and many thousands injured (by both sides).

For ISIS, it is around 35,000, and they will not negotiate like the IRA.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I already stated in my original post that the IRA was worse for the British compared to the ISIS. However, I was taking a global view. The ISIS have created terror in a greater number of country in the name of religion. Non-British people certainly fear them more than the IRA, and that is because of their widespread network and the way they kill in the name of religion. Unlike IRA, they are not going to settle for ceasefire either. The only solution of getting rid of ISIS terrorism is to eliminate the faction from its roots.

You may be surprised to know that there quite a few people - and educated ones - in Pakistan and others places who haven't even heard of the IRA, but the same cannot be said about the ISIS and the impact they have had on the world. Again, not taking a British POV here.

If you were professing a global view then you should maybe have not started your retort to S28 with:

"For someone who has (apparently) been brought up in the UK, you clearly don't have any understanding of the history of your own country"

From that I assumed you were addressing the IRA from a British POV, and even the rest of the post seems to be from that viewpoint rather than a global one.

 

[big_gamer007]

Vaughan is a troll and his comments should be ignored.

Michael Vaughan is a known troll. Didn't know people at PakPassion take him seriously.

You think he's trolling? This is not trolling he was being serious by his comments which were due to the horrific incident in his country.. Obviously he felt upset and angered but being a public figure he should think twice before posting something..

 

[Mamoon]

.

 

[Mamoon]

If you were professing a global view then you should maybe have not started your retort to S28 with:

"For someone who has (apparently) been brought up in the UK, you clearly don't have any understanding of the history of your own country"

From that I assumed you were addressing the IRA from a British POV, and even the rest of the post seems to be from that viewpoint rather than a global one.

I was explaining to [MENTION=107620]s28[/MENTION] and [MENTION=4930]Yossarian[/MENTION] the differences between the IRA and the ISIS. ISIS have killed by far the greater number of people, they don't have a particular political agenda, and they will not settle for peace talks.

On the contrary, the IRA eventually realized after the Birmingham pub bombings that it was not the way to go. The subsequent attacks in the 1990s such as the Bishopgate Bombing were strategically planned to avoid civilian deaths.

 

[shaz619]

I was explaining to [MENTION=107620]s28[/MENTION] and [MENTION=4930]Yossarian[/MENTION] the differences between the IRA and the ISIS. ISIS have killed by far the greater number of people, they don't have a particular political agenda, and they will not settle for peace talks.

On the contrary, the IRA eventually realized after the Birmingham pub bombings that it was not the way to go. The subsequent attacks in the 1990s such as the Bishopgate Bombing were strategically planned to avoid civilian deaths.

Both deserve to be vilified for the atrocities but it can't be denied that ISIS is an entirely different beast with a scary level of derangement, they targeted BABIES! these people are sick and they tend to commit similar atrocities in places of public leisure of what's left in Iraq and Syria as well.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Vaughan has made a fool of himself. It's just as bad as Dean Jones comment regarding Amla.

He deserves all the abuse he will now get.

 

[Adil_94]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] they attacked a football cafe in Iraq last year because of their sick hateful ideology. They have no limits to who they will target. A childrens pop concert is a new low even for them.

 

[KingKhanWC]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] they attacked a football cafe in Iraq last year because of their sick hateful ideology. They have no limits to who they will target. A childrens pop concert is a new low even for them.

It's not new. According to reports for years now, IS have attacked children many times before. The same can be said of the Western governments who have killed over a million children due to their economic and military polices over the last 30 years. Half a million in Iraq alone. But I doubt Michael Vaughan will be tweeting the Prime Minister or Trump to stop their aggression too.

 

[90MPH]

I can understand his anger at the attack.

But this was an inresponsible comment.

You are talking about a very small group of Muslims that will have extreme views. And even within that small group it will be a very tiny group who will be determined and then have the knowledge and capibility to carry out such a henious terrorist attack.

Thats what happened a few days ago, somone slipped through the net. These sort of attacks can only be contained until either the netowrk and group collapses or it morphs into a different group.

Remember as soon as the IRA started negotiating a splinter group broke away and they carried on attacks. Even ISIS started from the remenants of Al qaeda in Iraq.

Its unfortunate Vaughan has started finger pointing at his own players for simplstic soloutions when the subject is very complex and there is no simple soloution to fix it.

Vaughan please think about your comments before you post them.

 

[Yossarian]

For ISIS, it is around 35,000, and they will not negotiate like the IRA.

What, you think it's some sort of competition? You started off by stating that the IRA didn't target civilians. When you're pointed in the right direction, your response is to start comparing numbers of innocent victims? Dead is dead as far as the victims and their loved ones are concerned.

You say Isis has killed around 35,000 around the world. To me the only part of that number that hits home are those killed by Isis in the UK (and perhaps those killed by Isis in Germany and France as I used to live/work there), since, on another day, that could have been me or my loved ones.

As for the IRA, lets just say that I was in Manchester city centre the day the Arndale Centre bombing took place, less than half a mile from the site of the explosion, and had passed through the Arndale Centre only 90 minutes or so previously.

 

[Mamoon]

What, you think it's some sort of competition? You started off by stating that the IRA didn't target civilians. When you're pointed in the right direction, your response is to start comparing numbers of innocent victims? Dead is dead as far as the victims and their loved ones are concerned.

You say Isis has killed around 35,000 around the world. To me the only part of that number that hits home are those killed by Isis in the UK (and perhaps those killed by Isis in Germany and France as I used to live/work there), since, on another day, that could have been me or my loved ones.

As for the IRA, lets just say that I was in Manchester city centre the day the Arndale Centre bombing took place, less than half a mile from the site of the explosion, and had passed through the Arndale Centre only 90 minutes or so previously.

I have already explained that I did not intend to convey that the IRA never killed civilians. As I said before, I did not word my statement properly. The word 'specifically' created unnecessary confusion, which I used for the sake of brevity. What I intended to convey was killing innocent people was not their primary target; they targeted a lot of prominent figures: from politicians to the military to the royal family. In addition, as I explained in my previous post, after the Birmingham pub bombing, they went out of their way in the 90's to minimize civilian damage. That is because unlike the ISIS, they had a clear objective in mind.

Secondly, I have already stated multiple times that from a British context, the IRA was certainly a bigger threat than the ISIS. Since you are British, it is obvious and natural that the global perspective on IRA and ISIS does not matter to you, because the IRA posed a bigger threat to you and your family before the ceasefire. Hence, it is not a competition, only a matter of perspective.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I was explaining to [MENTION=107620]s28[/MENTION] and [MENTION=4930]Yossarian[/MENTION] the differences between the IRA and the ISIS. ISIS have killed by far the greater number of people, they don't have a particular political agenda, and they will not settle for peace talks.

On the contrary, the IRA eventually realized after the Birmingham pub bombings that it was not the way to go. The subsequent attacks in the 1990s such as the Bishopgate Bombing were strategically planned to avoid civilian deaths.

Which is all well and good, but why should Moeen Ali be made culpable for any of that, by an England colleague of all people? You are making excuses for unacceptable behaviour at the end of the day, maybe you should save your general sympathies for a more general topic.

 

[Mamoon]

Which is all well and good, but why should Moeen Ali be made culpable for any of that, by an England colleague of all people? You are making excuses for unacceptable behaviour at the end of the day, maybe you should save your general sympathies for a more general topic.

Calling his tweet 'stupid' in post #6 doesn't sound like an apology or an excuse to me, but yes I chose the wrong thread - and perhaps the wrong time - to make a general point. In times like these, it is difficult to take a neutral position. Muslims are feeling vulnerable while the bigots/Islamophobes have had their resentment reinforced.

 

[the SHA]

More than 90% of the terrorist attacks in the world are by Muslims, so how do you expect them to understand that Islam is not a terrorist religion?

Nonesense. I am afraid this estimate is wildly wrong and totally baseless.

According to EUROPOL's figures from last year, in Europe there were a total 211 terrorist attacks, of which 17 deemed 'religiously motivated'. Let's assume these were all Muslim. That's 8%. Take the trend over the past 5 years, the figures plummets to 2% deemed 'religiously motivated'. In the US the figures are similarly low, according to the Global Terrorism Database. See: www.globalresearch.ca/non-Muslims-c...0-of-all-terrorist-attacks-in-America/5333619

So let's not jump to baseless emotional Fox News / Trumpesque styled conclusions on this issue. Better to stick to evidence based facts.

 

[Mamoon]

Nonesense. I am afraid this estimate is wildly wrong and totally baseless.

According to EUROPOL's figures from last year, in Europe there were a total 211 terrorist attacks, of which 17 deemed 'religiously motivated'. Let's assume these were all Muslim. That's 8%. Take the trend over the past 5 years, the figures plummets to 2% deemed 'religiously motivated'. In the US the figures are similarly low, according to the Global Terrorism Database. See: www.globalresearch.ca/non-Muslims-c...0-of-all-terrorist-attacks-in-America/5333619

So let's not jump to baseless emotional Fox News / Trumpesque styled conclusions on this issue. Better to stick to evidence based facts.

It was a rhetorical statement because I obviously don't look at data to see which group has lead how many attacks. I live in Pakistan and my family lives in the UK. The only terrorism I and they have been exposed to in the last two decades or so (post 9/11 to be precise) have been under the banner of Islam.

ISIS is the biggest terror organization in the world today and they do it in the name of Islam, so I don't have to rely on the orange fool or Fox news, which is a load of rubbish anyway. I have spent less than a year in the U.S. so I am obviously not very well-versed with the ground realities there, but the question that we have to ponder on is why does Islamic terrorist stick out and strike fears in the hearts of everyone, if they are other and bigger perpetuators? It is easy to blame it on the prejudice and bigotry of the West, but the truth is that they are the flag-bearers of terrorism in today's world.

Regardless of what the official figure is, be it 90%, 60% or 40%, the fact is that whether no matter who you are and where you are from, when you hear the word terrorism, the first thing that comes to mind is ISIS/Jihadis. Of course, I am not counting the U.S. state terrorism which is part of their foreign policy.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Disappointing stuff from Vaughan.

 

[the SHA]

I agree. And who is telling you this 'news'? Who is stoking this fear?

 

[Buffet]

You think he's trolling? This is not trolling he was being serious by his comments which were due to the horrific incident in his country.. Obviously he felt upset and angered but being a public figure he should think twice before posting something..

If you troll all the time then even serious comments can be viewed as troll comments. His comments here may have been serious, but I view him as troll and don't take any of his comments seriously.

 

[PakLFC]

I wonder if Michael Vaughn knows any neo nazi skinheads? For sure he knows many NATO murderers.

 

[Specialisttailender]

Calling his tweet 'stupid' in post #6 doesn't sound like an apology or an excuse to me, but yes I chose the wrong thread - and perhaps the wrong time - to make a general point. In times like these, it is difficult to take a neutral position. Muslims are feeling vulnerable while the bigots/Islamophobes have had their resentment reinforced.

You chose the wrong people to discuss with. Some people who are coming at you themselves know you are correct but they are in denial.

 

[Pakistanian]

If you troll all the time then even serious comments can be viewed as troll comments. His comments here may have been serious, but I view him as troll and don't take any of his comments seriously.

People thought Trump was troll and now he's in charge of the country. People shouldn't just let this slide like it's no big deal.

 

[kabbirann]

I guess we'll be getting an apology note from Bush and Blair for why they kneeled and prayed in the name of Christianity when they gave the green light to kill hundreds and thousands of Iraqis and Afghanis, anytime now...

But hey, whatever.

The double-standards are nauseating.Just read about 100 Syrian civilians killed in US air-strikes,ISIS is being blamed as apparently they were used as "human shield".
This is kids,mothers,fathers,who died an unnamed,anonymous death.
Somehow the Syrians,the Iraqis,the Yemenis are children of a lesser God and it is ok to butcher them to satisfy the "civilised" world's lust for oil.
The butchery in Manchester is wrong,the butchery in Syria is wrong.

 

[PakLFC]

The double-standards are nauseating.Just read about 100 Syrian civilians killed in US air-strikes,ISIS is being blamed as apparently they were used as "human shield".
This is kids,mothers,fathers,who died an unnamed,anonymous death.
Somehow the Syrians,the Iraqis,the Yemenis are children of a lesser God and it is ok to butcher them to satisfy the "civilised" world's lust for oil.
The butchery in Manchester is wrong,the butchery in Syria is wrong.

The real tragedy is that no Muslim country is doing anything about Yemen, Iraq and Syria. Where are the one minute silences and uproar amongst Muslim governments?. We can't accept the west to cry over them when the Muslim's themselves are silent. Other then Pakistan no other Muslim country has even reported never mind wept over Kashmiri people being killed by India forces.

 

[Gilly]

Vaughan has made a fool of himself. It's just as bad as Dean Jones comment regarding Amla.

He deserves all the abuse he will now get.

What Vaughan did lacked thought and clarity, he certainly wont be proud and will later apologise to Ali. He is angry and in shock and has lashed out. Ali will be understanding and patient knowing that in the long run this will bring people together.

Abusing Vaughan says more about the person, they have no compassion and want to create a divide.

 

[Slog]

No comparison between IRA and ISIS.

And for a moment lets assume they are comparable evils, it doesnt discount what ISIS is doing and attempts to conflate the discussion with IRA chatter is just being an apologist fir URA

 

[s28]

Far from apologising Vaughan is still ranting and raving with his fash-lite opinions on twitter

Demanding something be done

Basically calling for internment of 'anybody who police are suspicious about'

 

[PakHammer]

What Vaughan did lacked thought and clarity, he certainly wont be proud and will later apologise to Ali. He is angry and in shock and has lashed out. Ali will be understanding and patient knowing that in the long run this will bring people together.

Abusing Vaughan says more about the person, they have no compassion and want to create a divide.

Let me get this straight. You think that by Moeen going up to Muslims in the UK that he does not know and ask them if they are a Terrorist or not will bring people together?

 

[Gilly]

Let me get this straight. You think that by Moeen going up to Muslims in the UK that he does not know and ask them if they are a Terrorist or not will bring people together?

I have no idea how you managed to conclude that from what I wrote.

My point was that Vaughan is angry and shocked by what happened and has lashed out, people do that when under stress. Moeen is a peaceful man who would understand the strain that people are under with the current events and will not respond with abuse or violence but will be patient and let time pass so that everyone can recompose themselves. Firing off insults to a hurt a distressed man is not the best way to handle what has happened. Moeen will respond with compassion and patience as would any peaceful person. Thugs n the other hand will use the opportunity to hurl insults and abuse people.

 

[s28]

At least fascist Katie Hopkins has been sacked

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Well done to all who petitioned LBC - a toxic voice is off the airwaves. <a href="https://twitter.com/OwenJones84">@OwenJones84</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/GeorgeMonbiot">@GeorgeMonbiot</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/RobGMacfarlane">@RobGMacfarlane</a> <a href="https://t.co/pActx3NjT6">https://t.co/pActx3NjT6</a></p>— Benjamin Ramm (@BenjaminRamm) <a href="https://twitter.com/BenjaminRamm/status/868030291922866176">May 26, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[PakHammer]

I have no idea how you managed to conclude that from what I wrote.

My point was that Vaughan is angry and shocked by what happened and has lashed out, people do that when under stress. Moeen is a peaceful man who would understand the strain that people are under with the current events and will not respond with abuse or violence but will be patient and let time pass so that everyone can recompose themselves. Firing off insults to a hurt a distressed man is not the best way to handle what has happened. Moeen will respond with compassion and patience as would any peaceful person. Thugs n the other hand will use the opportunity to hurl insults and abuse people.

Ok I may have misunderstood your post but good you clarified it