Middle-order of Pakistan ODI side needs to be fixed

[B_Positive]

We talk a lot about the middle order about India that they are very bad and they are just top 3 or nothing but what about Pakistan middle order. After a long time our openers failed and our middle order was completely pathetic. Malik didnt play well. Was given two lifelines, still made just 47. Babar was only one that looked good. Then we have Sarfaraz, he is really good but dont know what has happened to him. Should we bring in Hafeez and Haris? Who will be out then? How to make it strong?

 

[zarar]

As well as Imam has been doing. Personally. This would be my preferred top 6:

Fakhar
Babar
Haris
Sarfaraz
Malik
Asif Ali

 

[Justcrazy]

As well as Imam has been doing. Personally. This would be my preferred top 6:

Fakhar
Babar
Haris
Sarfaraz
Malik
Asif Ali

I agree Imam Is not cut for shorter formats , the sooner PCB understands the better.

 

[Azeem Zafar]

I only realized yesterday that our batting actually ends at #4, we have Sarfi, Asif, Shadab to follow after Malik (who is already an average Middle order bat) which are by no means reliable ODI batsmen. Sarfi is a limited batsman & one cannot expect him to play the rescue role 8/10 times after an early collapse. We really need to include either Haris or Shan/Farhan in our top 6.

 

[ARK Rafay]

I would personally like this batting line-up to go in WC

Fakhar
Farhan
Babar
Sarfraz
Malik
Shadab/Asif (Depending on Situation)
Asif/Shadab (Depending on Situation)
Faheem

 

[B_Positive]

As well as Imam has been doing. Personally. This would be my preferred top 6:

Fakhar
Babar
Haris
Sarfaraz
Malik
Asif Ali

Why not Hafeez?

 

[FastBowlingAllrounder]

Shan Masood and Haris deserve a try before a final combination is decided on. I'd prefer these guys to play in our next game:

Fakhar
Shan
Babar
Haris
Malik
Sarfaraz

With Asif batting at 7 (can be moved up if needed) and Faheem maybe being rested as he hasn't made much of an impact with the bat. Asif can do the power hitting and Faheem isn't exactly a guy who can play the rescue role.

 

[Mamoon]

I am getting into blasphemous territory now, but I will say it as I see it.

Both Shadab and Fahim are overrated and are being played too much - they are glorified tail-enders who will fail against good attacks 8/10 times and do not take enough wickets against strong batting lineups.

Our middle/lower-order will continue to be fragile if we pick both. They should be rotated based on the conditions, and one of them needs to be replaced by a specialist middle-order batsman, preferably Haris.

A strong, proven middle-order can carry both of these hyped up bits and pieces players, but a middle-order with garbage like Sarfraz and unproven quantities like Asif cannot.

The fact that Shadab is being played as a first-choice spinner adds to the problem. He is out of his depth in this role because his bowling is not very good. He can fox weak teams with his googlies, but his basics are not strong enough to run through quality lineups. You cannot bank on him to deliver 10 good overs game after game.

The gulf between his bowling and that of other quality white ball spinners these days such as Rashid and Yadav etc. is quite big.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

I am getting into blasphemous territory now, but I will say it as I see it.

Both Shadab and Fahim are overrated and are being played too much - they are glorified tail-enders who will fail against good attacks 8/10 times and do not take enough wickets against strong batting lineups.

Our middle/lower-order will continue to be fragile if we pick both. They should be rotated based on the conditions, and one of them needs to be replaced by a specialist middle-order batsman, preferably Haris.

A strong, proven middle-order can carry both of these hyped up bits and pieces players, but a middle-order with garbage like Sarfraz and unproven quantities like Asif cannot.

The fact that Shadab is being played as a first-choice spinner adds to the problem. He is out of his depth in this role because his bowling is not very good. He can fox weak teams with his googlies, but his basics are not strong enough to run through quality lineups. You cannot bank on him to deliver 10 good overs game after game.

The gulf between his bowling and that of other quality white ball spinners these days such as Rashid and Yadav etc. is quite big.

That bit about shadab is not true at all. He puts a lot of revs on the ball - more so than someone like chahal and he has slowed down his pace and flights the ball well. Basics are pretty good. He has had back problems for a while and now groin problems. The problem is that guys like him are playing all 3 formats and then T20 leagues as well. Also the reason why Hasan Ali is looking a bit jaded. This is a problem for the likes of pandya and he , quite predictably, got injured playing this useless tournament . The schedules are ruthless and punishing.

 

[ads101]

I am getting into blasphemous territory now, but I will say it as I see it.

Both Shadab and Fahim are overrated and are being played too much - they are glorified tail-enders who will fail against good attacks 8/10 times and do not take enough wickets against strong batting lineups.

Our middle/lower-order will continue to be fragile if we pick both. They should be rotated based on the conditions, and one of them needs to be replaced by a specialist middle-order batsman, preferably Haris.
.

I agree with this. I don't think Shadab or Fahim are proper bats. We say our batting is weak, but tbh we play with one less batsman on top of this than most teams. Nearly everyone else plays a proper bat or someone who's main focus is batting at 7. Even India the strongest batting side used to play a guy in Pandya who used to make it batting alone. And Pandya is a much better bat than those two, regardless of averages. Shadab and Fahim might have potential but they lack the experience as batsmen in domestic and when push comes to crunch against bigger teams, they're not going to win you games or rescue you with the bat.

Shadab I agree again, he's good but he doesn't stand out or dominate a game like a first choice spinner is expected. Big difference between him and Ajmal who did. The only reason I'd consider batting Shadab at 7 and getting in another spinner just to partner him even though our batting is weak. What I don't get is we're happy to ignore the over-reliance on spin in Shadab, but then are adamant that we need 4 pacers. Doesn't make altogether much sense.

We have to make a compromise, if we play two spinners our batting is weaker. And the reverse, weaker spin attack if we pick an extra bat. ATM I'm leaning towards playing an extra batsman, our batting is too much of a concern. Just makes us rely more on the pace attack having to turn up more. Which they haven't been doing lately.

 

[ads101]

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[barah_admi]

Knee jerk reactions by knee jerk fans. The biggest and only issue is Sarfraz. His batting has been poor for a long, long time now and I'm not sure if he is a good enough keeper or captain to still be in the side. Othert han that, the batting line up failed for the first time in a while, on a poor, slow, low pitch with bad shots. They will come back because they are good enough.

Zaman and Imam have a good partnership going, Babar showed grit and Malik can be an exceptional striker. If these guys can get the team to 200 odd by the 35th over, the side is set up, with Asif, Faheem and Shadab to hit big down the back end of an innings.

All young sides come through performances like this, so stick to the plans, they will pay off.

 

[ads101]

That bit about shadab is not true at all. He puts a lot of revs on the ball - more so than someone like chahal and he has slowed down his pace and flights the ball well. Basics are pretty good. He has had back problems for a while and now groin problems. The problem is that guys like him are playing all 3 formats and then T20 leagues as well. Also the reason why Hasan Ali is looking a bit jaded. This is a problem for the likes of pandya and he , quite predictably, got injured playing this useless tournament . The schedules are ruthless and punishing.

He's extremely reliable and day in day out he will put in a good performance. But he doesn't look like a guy who will pick up wickets against a stronger side in hopeless situations and turn a game around when you can't rely on the run rate forcing the batsmen to go aggressive.

He's fine if our pace bowlers are the main attack, but I don't think poses the same sort of threat with spin as top tier spinners who have literally carried spin attacks by themselves.

Not the biggest concern, he's still one of our best players but I do wonder whether we should balance our attack. Make it so if we can't get the opposition out via pace, we can get them out via spin. Atm if pace doesn't work, we lose. Looking at India's success with spin in the England series makes me wonder we should go back to spin, I think it troubles teams more. In recent memory still the most consistently devastating attack we'd had was that spin trio of Afridi, Ajmal, Hafeez. It consistently put in the work and didn't have many off days. Pace on the other hand, it's been hard to lock down the third seamer spot for years (though Shinwari is finally doing it hopefully). Amir isn't taking wickets regularly, though at the same time seems to be the only bowler who can bowl with the new ball. And Hasan doesn't seem suited with the new ball, and when he's off he's very expensive and in general hasn't bowled as well as he used to recently. Maybe it's time to share the focus more with the spinners rather than putting all our eggs in one basket.

 

[Khan12]

I am getting into blasphemous territory now, but I will say it as I see it.

Both Shadab and Fahim are overrated and are being played too much - they are glorified tail-enders who will fail against good attacks 8/10 times and do not take enough wickets against strong batting lineups.

Our middle/lower-order will continue to be fragile if we pick both. They should be rotated based on the conditions, and one of them needs to be replaced by a specialist middle-order batsman, preferably Haris.

A strong, proven middle-order can carry both of these hyped up bits and pieces players, but a middle-order with garbage like Sarfraz and unproven quantities like Asif cannot.

The fact that Shadab is being played as a first-choice spinner adds to the problem. He is out of his depth in this role because his bowling is not very good. He can fox weak teams with his googlies, but his basics are not strong enough to run through quality lineups. You cannot bank on him to deliver 10 good overs game after game.

The gulf between his bowling and that of other quality white ball spinners these days such as Rashid and Yadav etc. is quite big.

The glorified tail ender shadab performed (batted) much better the atg pandya aganist England so i wonder what is pandya then.

 

[LordEddardStark]

I am getting into blasphemous territory now, but I will say it as I see it.

Both Shadab and Fahim are overrated and are being played too much - they are glorified tail-enders who will fail against good attacks 8/10 times and do not take enough wickets against strong batting lineups.

Our middle/lower-order will continue to be fragile if we pick both. They should be rotated based on the conditions, and one of them needs to be replaced by a specialist middle-order batsman, preferably Haris.

A strong, proven middle-order can carry both of these hyped up bits and pieces players, but a middle-order with garbage like Sarfraz and unproven quantities like Asif cannot.

The fact that Shadab is being played as a first-choice spinner adds to the problem. He is out of his depth in this role because his bowling is not very good. He can fox weak teams with his googlies, but his basics are not strong enough to run through quality lineups. You cannot bank on him to deliver 10 good overs game after game.

The gulf between his bowling and that of other quality white ball spinners these days such as Rashid and Yadav etc. is quite big.

Maybe for the first time, but I agree with your thinking. The bit about Faheem and Shadab is spot on. Both of them in the same team create a hole in lower middle order, which ideally should have been filled by a proper middle order bat. Even if that means moving Asif at 7th position, which is his ideal position in ODIs to be honest. He is likely to fail if he bats before 38th over.

And ideal role of Shadab would be like Ajmal, or Rashid in today's terms. But so far he is lacking in this respect. Here's hoping he concentrates more on his bowling than his batting in the future.

 

[austerlitz]

Pakistan have too many bits and pieces players.Only one really good batsman is babar azam.

 

[Xoib]

Shadab and Asif bashing is hilarious both have shown nothing but good performances since start Shadab was a shining light both with bat and ball during the new Zealand series one average day where he was possibly not fit and knives are out from usual depressed mainiacs

 

[ads101]

Shadab and Asif bashing is hilarious both have shown nothing but good performances since start Shadab was a shining light both with bat and ball during the new Zealand series one average day where he was possibly not fit and knives are out from usual depressed mainiacs

Asif will come good I think. He's a good clean hitter of the ball, and ideal to come at 7 honestly. Maybe 6.

Shadab I've always though while a fantastic player for us, doesn't hold his own and is a bit weak batting wise for a no.7. He's a very good bat for a bowler, and can support at the other end, but he can't take charge like a proper bat yet. Should bat at 8 really even with Faheem playing should come at 7. Though really I'd like a player who holds his own batting alone at 7. Neither Faheem nor Shadab could come in for solely batting.

 

[PakPremi]

Just need one more batsman in the team in place of Faheem to bat at 4. With mini allrounders like Haris Fakhar and Shoaib filling in Faheem's quota. In UAE you don't need 4 pacers.

 

[Minnowbasher]

I agree with Mamoon. Shadab and faheem should be rotated. Need a first spinner in the team and need a batting all rounder. Possible xi
Fakhar
Imam/sahibzada
Babar
Sarfraz (Only decent in top 4)
Haris
Malik
Shadab/faheem
Amir
Zafar Gohar
Hasan
Junaid/shaheen

 

[Minnowbasher]

No point of playing asif ali because if your top order is vulnerable there is no point of having a big hitter who can't even bowl. We need proper batsmen from numbers 1-6.

 

[happydavy]

I mentioned a couple of times before y'day game that Pakistan lower middle order is too raw and inexperienced. That's why Pakistan has to ensure that they don't loose more than 4 wickets until 40th over.

 

[lahoriyah1234]

Pakistan is lacking 2 good middler order batsmen. Pakistan team mangt need to understand that only 1 either faheem or shabad can play in UAE PITCHES. Both cant play preferably i would pick shadab. Harris sohail is a good choice don’t understand why he is not in the side he is the only player after babar who can play long innings.

Now people talking abt the loss i think we lost due to poor planning and strategy. Plan to get 300 on this pitch was wrong estimation, strategy to go abt was wrong. If fakhar keep getting out on short balls then, he may go on to become another Imran nazir, who performs once a blue moon, he needs to be smart and play sensibly in first 10 overs he can always come back to improve his strike rate. Imam u know he is proper batsmen, if he wants to be in the side, he must play anchor role, he can be a good player just dont try be different in approach in UAE PITCHES.

Now we all been through this Pak plays rubbish and then they become better same said when we lost in CT to India. Pakistan must realise and believe they are better than India, this Indian team is beatable for sure, but PAK must not panic and play sensibly.

I wouldnt mind Asif Ali Opening and Haris comes in at 5.

 

[Minnowbasher]

I never thought i would say this but we need Hafeez back. He is a good enough bowler to play as 5th bowler and could easily bat at 6/7. Imagine a team of:
Fakhar
Imam/sahibzada
Babar
Sarfraz
Haris
Malik
Hafeez
Amir
Zafar Gohar/specialist spinner
Hasan
Junaid/shaheen

Haris, Malik and Hafeez can complete the overs for the 5th bowler easily plus Hafeez is a far far better batsman than shadab or faheem. Could play this xi for the world cup. Shadab could always play as specialist spinner if zafar fails so it's not like we are screwing up his career. He's still young anyway and will have plenty of chances after world cup.
Meanwhile, Faheem just needs to improve. He is neither a good enough bowler nor a good enough batsman. He should work hard and try to cement his place in the side after the world cup.

 

[the_outsider]

Pakistan have too many bits and pieces players.Only one really good batsman is babar azam.

Fakhar is also a very good bat. And Malik is a decent batter as well. Problem is that Pak's batting is pretty much about those 3. Rest are all either untested or bits and pieces players.

And [MENTION=42125]ads101[/MENTION] is spot on about the problem with Pak's bowling. It is too reliant on their pacers and when the conditions don't suit them or one of them has a bad day (which happens to Amir too regularly now) then they don't have enough penetration.

Shadab's perfect role is that of the 2nd spinner who can bat at number 8 and get some quick runs end the end. This is the exact role a David Willey or Woakes plays for the Eng LOI side and they have greatly benefitted from it.

But Shadab is not good enough to handle the spin duties all by himself. He has to be the 2nd spinner.

Pakistan's biggest problem with their LOI side is they lack a genuine all-rounder. Faheem and Shadab are not that.

 

[Minnowbasher]

I never thought i would say this but we need Hafeez back. He is a good enough bowler to play as 5th bowler and could easily bat at 6/7. Imagine a team of:
Fakhar
Imam/sahibzada
Babar
Sarfraz
Haris
Malik
Hafeez
Amir
Zafar Gohar/specialist spinner
Hasan
Junaid/shaheen

Haris, Malik and Hafeez can complete the overs for the 5th bowler easily plus Hafeez is a far far better batsman than shadab or faheem. Could play this xi for the world cup. Shadab could always play as specialist spinner if zafar fails so it's not like we are screwing up his career. He's still young anyway and will have plenty of chances after world cup.
Meanwhile, Faheem just needs to improve. He is neither a good enough bowler nor a good enough batsman. He should work hard and try to cement his place in the side after the world cup.

Alternatively we could make babar open, move everyone up 1 (switch haris and sarfraz) and fit in one of shadab and faheem at 7.

 

[Jazbaa-pak]

@ Mamoon

While I agree with your analysis on Faheem and Shadab - I think it is also a bit of an over reaction.

I think the management also knows that Shadab and Faheem are no where near where they are batting right now but they are talented. Shadab more so proved his batting credentials in England against top bowling line up against the moving ball.

Sometimes when management shows that much faith in these guys' ability, it could do wonders to their confidence and in turn the results. They would keep improving their skills as their weaknesses will become apparent but I am sure they will learn quick. We need to be patient with these guys and give them a good run. If they fail to learn and produce the results over a good time span, I agree we should look at alternatives but this is not the time IMO.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Fakhar is also a very good bat. And Malik is a decent batter as well. Problem is that Pak's batting is pretty much about those 3. Rest are all either untested or bits and pieces players.

And [MENTION=42125]ads101[/MENTION] is spot on about the problem with Pak's bowling. It is too reliant on their pacers and when the conditions don't suit them or one of them has a bad day (which happens to Amir too regularly now) then they don't have enough penetration.

Shadab's perfect role is that of the 2nd spinner who can bat at number 8 and get some quick runs end the end. This is the exact role a David Willey or Woakes plays for the Eng LOI side and they have greatly benefitted from it.

But Shadab is not good enough to handle the spin duties all by himself. He has to be the 2nd spinner.

Pakistan's biggest problem with their LOI side is they lack a genuine all-rounder. Faheem and Shadab are not that.

Only England and to a certain extent, Bangladesh, have a genuine all-rounder. Pakistan's biggest problem is the lack of experience of their batsmen. Shadab and Faheem are decent options to come in at number 7 and 8. If you're relying on Shadab and Faheem to win a game with the bat, when the top order has completely collapsed, you're watching the wrong sport.

 

[ExplicitAI]

No one is really talking about how bad the pitches are in the UAE, we've got the right players but I do feel we need to tweak some stuff, like Imam isn't really suited for today's modern brand of cricket, I feel he's a slightly faster version of Gambhir in terms of SR but that's only marginal. We put ourselves under pressure by playing lots of dots balls and playing defensive cricket at the start when we could just simply rotate the strike and hit out bad balls, our fitness levels are excellent so we should have no problems with running between the wickets.

 

[lahoriyah1234]

No one is really talking about how bad the pitches are in the UAE, we've got the right players but I do feel we need to tweak some stuff, like Imam isn't really suited for today's modern brand of cricket, I feel he's a slightly faster version of Gambhir in terms of SR but that's only marginal. We put ourselves under pressure by playing lots of dots balls and playing defensive cricket at the start when we could just simply rotate the strike and hit out bad balls, our fitness levels are excellent so we should have no problems with running between the wickets.

I m v tempted to play Asif Ali opener. He can be leathel in first power plays.

Even Sarfraz ahmed can be a good choice why not.

 

[lahoriyah1234]

Abt Pitches i m surprised Pak played like this and they play in Uae all the times.

 

[the_outsider]

Only England and to a certain extent, Bangladesh, have a genuine all-rounder. Pakistan's biggest problem is the lack of experience of their batsmen. Shadab and Faheem are decent options to come in at number 7 and 8. If you're relying on Shadab and Faheem to win a game with the bat, when the top order has completely collapsed, you're watching the wrong sport.

Every good team has at least one-all rounder that's better than both Shadab and Fahim in either batting or bowling.

India - Pandya's a better bat than Shabad and Fahim and a better bowler than Fahim.

Aus - Mitch Marsh - a much better batsman than both Fahim and Shadab. WC experience. Better bowler than Fahim. Even Pat Cummin's record as an AR is much better than Fahim and Shadab's.

Eng - Stokes, Moeen, Woakes all of them are better all-rounders

Ban - Shakib is obviously the best all-rounder in the world right now

SA - Morris hasn't been playing much lately but he's a genuine all-rounder and again, better

The only two teams today who don't have a genuine LOI all-rounder are Pak and NZ. Luckily, NZ can get away by having players like Guptill, Taylor, Boult, Southee and Santer. Pak does not have that kind of experience or quality in the rest of their lineup right now. They need to find a better AR.

Either of Shadab or Faheem should play depending on conditions. I have high hopes from Shadab and I think he should get the nod ahead of Faheem most times.

Pak's problems are actually quite similar to India's. Even that team is currently short of one AR, even with Pandya in the XI. That's why someone like Kedhar Jhadav has to be accommodated into the squad. Because we don't have much choice. Just like India, Pak's batting also has genuine tailenders starting from number 9, which is one position too high. That is why it is critical for both India and Pakistan to find not one, but two proper ARs to slot in at numbers 7 and 8 before the WC.

 

[Kohli The King of Chase]

You guys need to click boxes one by one.

There are still 20(Against SENA) odis for PAK, before WC

01.Imam / Sahinzada /Shan
02.Fakhar
03.Babar
04.Haris
05.Malik
06.Sarfraz + *
07.Asif / Shadab (depends whether you need to strengthen your batting or, bowling)
08.Amir (He'll play WC as an opening bowler, no point crying now )
09.Hassan
10.Shaheen / Junaid
11.Usman

 

[Nikhil_cric]

He's extremely reliable and day in day out he will put in a good performance. But he doesn't look like a guy who will pick up wickets against a stronger side in hopeless situations and turn a game around when you can't rely on the run rate forcing the batsmen to go aggressive.

He's fine if our pace bowlers are the main attack, but I don't think poses the same sort of threat with spin as top tier spinners who have literally carried spin attacks by themselves.

Not the biggest concern, he's still one of our best players but I do wonder whether we should balance our attack. Make it so if we can't get the opposition out via pace, we can get them out via spin. Atm if pace doesn't work, we lose. Looking at India's success with spin in the England series makes me wonder we should go back to spin, I think it troubles teams more. In recent memory still the most consistently devastating attack we'd had was that spin trio of Afridi, Ajmal, Hafeez. It consistently put in the work and didn't have many off days. Pace on the other hand, it's been hard to lock down the third seamer spot for years (though Shinwari is finally doing it hopefully). Amir isn't taking wickets regularly, though at the same time seems to be the only bowler who can bowl with the new ball. And Hasan doesn't seem suited with the new ball, and when he's off he's very expensive and in general hasn't bowled as well as he used to recently. Maybe it's time to share the focus more with the spinners rather than putting all our eggs in one basket.

Top tier spinners who carried attacks by themselves? We haven't had those since the days of Warne and Murali. Indian spinners did decently in England only as long as the novelty factor of SLC existed. After that England played them pretty well imo. The spin trio of ajmal/hafeez/Afridi only worked because of the actions of hafeez and ajmal which gave them the ability to restrict runs in the middle overs. Wouldnt work with spinners who have clean legal actions I think. Shadab's role is fine I think . Give him enough runs to play with and he will take more wickets for sure. Pakistan's problem is definitely the middle order.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Every good team has at least one-all rounder that's better than both Shadab and Fahim in either batting or bowling.

India - Pandya's a better bat than Shabad and Fahim and a better bowler than Fahim.

Aus - Mitch Marsh - a much better batsman than both Fahim and Shadab. WC experience. Better bowler than Fahim. Even Pat Cummin's record as an AR is much better than Fahim and Shadab's.

Eng - Stokes, Moeen, Woakes all of them are better all-rounders

Ban - Shakib is obviously the best all-rounder in the world right now

SA - Morris hasn't been playing much lately but he's a genuine all-rounder and again, better

The only two teams today who don't have a genuine LOI all-rounder are Pak and NZ. Luckily, NZ can get away by having players like Guptill, Taylor, Boult, Southee and Santer. Pak does not have that kind of experience or quality in the rest of their lineup right now. They need to find a better AR.

Either of Shadab or Faheem should play depending on conditions. I have high hopes from Shadab and I think he should get the nod ahead of Faheem most times.

Pak's problems are actually quite similar to India's. Even that team is currently short of one AR, even with Pandya in the XI. That's why someone like Kedhar Jhadav has to be accommodated into the squad. Because we don't have much choice. Just like India, Pak's batting also has genuine tailenders starting from number 9, which is one position too high. That is why it is critical for both India and Pakistan to find not one, but two proper ARs to slot in at numbers 7 and 8 before the WC.

Pandya is in no way a better bowler than Faheem.

 

[Amjid Javed]

I am getting into blasphemous territory now, but I will say it as I see it.

Both Shadab and Fahim are overrated and are being played too much - they are glorified tail-enders who will fail against good attacks 8/10 times and do not take enough wickets against strong batting lineups.

Our middle/lower-order will continue to be fragile if we pick both. They should be rotated based on the conditions, and one of them needs to be replaced by a specialist middle-order batsman, preferably Haris.

A strong, proven middle-order can carry both of these hyped up bits and pieces players, but a middle-order with garbage like Sarfraz and unproven quantities like Asif cannot.

The fact that Shadab is being played as a first-choice spinner adds to the problem. He is out of his depth in this role because his bowling is not very good. He can fox weak teams with his googlies, but his basics are not strong enough to run through quality lineups. You cannot bank on him to deliver 10 good overs game after game.

The gulf between his bowling and that of other quality white ball spinners these days such as Rashid and Yadav etc. is quite big.

POTW for me here!

I agree 100% fully we are picking 2 so call All rounders for balance purpose and there performances equate to having 1 player in the side. Add to that a walking wicket of a captain and its not just in ODIs its hurting us its test as well.

We are not lengthening or strengthening the batting and so called extra bowling options of quality arent there either.

 

[the_outsider]

Pandya is in no way a better bowler than Faheem.

I don't expect you to agree. But he is. And even if we ignore that it doesn't change my overall point.

I hope that is not the only thing you took from my post.

 

[Usman Chadda]

I don't expect you to agree. But he is. And even if we ignore that it doesn't change my overall point.

I hope that is not the only thing you took from my post.

I stopped reading at that, sorry.

 

[the_outsider]

I stopped reading at that, sorry.

I'm disappointed. Egos shouldn't be that fragile.

 

[lahoriyah1234]

POTW for me here!

I agree 100% fully we are picking 2 so call All rounders for balance purpose and there performances equate to having 1 player in the side. Add to that a walking wicket of a captain and its not just in ODIs its hurting us its test as well.

We are not lengthening or strengthening the batting and so called extra bowling options of quality arent there either.

Both shadab and faheem are young and new to the intl cricket give them 1 more yr u don’t develop overnight. India domestic cricket is v strong and cricketers who comes out of it and v professional and talented in batting. Shabad and faheem will come good soon have patience.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Both shadab and faheem are young and new to the intl cricket give them 1 more yr u donÂ’t develop overnight. India domestic cricket is v strong and cricketers who comes out of it and v professional and talented in batting. Shabad and faheem will come good soon have patience.

I dont doubt both Faheem and Shadab will come good in time, but right now we can not afford to have both in the side especially as our batting line up is so poor and we have a non performing captain, to many passengers in the side.

 

[nextover666666]

Sarfraz is not a bad batsman he just needs to take more resposibitly and play smarter he panicked yeaturday just like most of the team did. I would like to have Babar open as well but if Imam is too ply despite playing slow he needs to know his role and what he did yeaturday was not a part of the game plan I rather he played more dots than what he tried to do yeaturday , the team panic due to pressure

 

[BunnyRabbit]

We lack a proper containing spinner around who the other bowlers can attack. Imad and Hafeez did that beautifully in Australia, WI, CT and SL series. 4 pacers in UAE is not good enough.
Plus in UAE we don't really need a guy like Asif Ali as 270-280 are defendable totals and guys like Babar, Malik can do that. Sarfraz needs to improve his batting A LOT. Haris should be brought in as a no. 4 in UAE atleast for Asif Ali.

I know it sounds very stupid, the 6th bowling option offered by Hafeez is vastly superior to the one offered by Malik/Haris/Fakhar. If only he wasn't a selfish batter.

 

[Cric_lover4487]

Cricket is a funny game. You never know, Pakistan might crush India again like they did in CT. However, it is obvious that if Fakhar gets out early unreliable middle order gets exposed. Pakistan team is relying on Babar to bail them out who seems like a batsman in Ajinkya Rahane mold, non gutsy and timid. No offense but i would rather play with Umar akmal at no. 6 slot. His stats are better than most of Pakistan batsman in last 10 years. I have no idea why he was dropped from test team by Misbah. With extended run in test team by now he could have been a gun player for Pakistan team in all formats. If not, atleast he could have been Raina for Pakistan team. To me at times his ramblings on team management seems legit.

 

[Ozeirk]

Shadab is an excellent player for the team. The man has performed in all formats of the game on numerous occasions when the middle order had failed and has been kind of filling in for sarfarazs lack of runs. He has the ability to play according to the situation as well and doesn't try to hit every ball out of the park unless the situation requires it.

We should look to provide him opportunities to improve his batting as he can potentially be one of Pakistan's better batsmen in the future.

I do believe we are lacking one strong middle order batsman and Malik should make room for the new batsman. Malik hasn't really produced a great innings when Pakistan was in a difficult situation and as a senior in the team if you can't do that you don't deserve to be in the team. Even his yesterday's performance is questionable as he would have not even reached 47 if he didn't get two chances in the form of dropped catches.

 

[Gotham Cronie]

I am getting into blasphemous territory now, but I will say it as I see it.

Both Shadab and Fahim are overrated and are being played too much - they are glorified tail-enders who will fail against good attacks 8/10 times and do not take enough wickets against strong batting lineups.

Our middle/lower-order will continue to be fragile if we pick both. They should be rotated based on the conditions, and one of them needs to be replaced by a specialist middle-order batsman, preferably Haris.

A strong, proven middle-order can carry both of these hyped up bits and pieces players, but a middle-order with garbage like Sarfraz and unproven quantities like Asif cannot.

The fact that Shadab is being played as a first-choice spinner adds to the problem. He is out of his depth in this role because his bowling is not very good. He can fox weak teams with his googlies, but his basics are not strong enough to run through quality lineups. You cannot bank on him to deliver 10 good overs game after game.

The gulf between his bowling and that of other quality white ball spinners these days such as Rashid and Yadav etc. is quite big.

Who are your 5th / 6th bowlers if you drop one?

 

[ahmadharis1]

Sarfraz needs to open. Imam has no place on the ODI team, plus Sarfraz/Fakhar would make a nice Left/Right opening pair and I think their play styles would compliment each other well.

 

[Ned Flanders]

1.Babar Azam
2.Fakhar Zaman
3.Haris Sohail
4.Sarfraz Ahmed
5.Shoaib Malik
6.Mohammad Hafeez
7.Faheem Ashraf
8.Shadab Khan
9.Shaheen Afridi
10.Hasan Ali
11.Usman Khan

 

[Bilal7]

1) Imam
2) Fakhar
3) Babar
4) Haris
5) Sarfaraz (c) (wk)
6) Malik
7) Shadab/Nawaz/Fahim
8) Fahim/Shadab/Nawaz
9) Hasan
10) Usman
11) Junaid

This should be our team for the next game. Asif does not seem like quality to me and it is a surprise that he is playing over Haris. Malik should be able to play the finisher role along with the all-rounders.

Amir needs a rest. He should be brought back after we find out what sort of form the rest of the bowlers are in. Need to save him for the more important games.

 

[TeamPak95]

1) Imam
2) Fakhar
3) Babar
4) Haris
5) Sarfaraz (c) (wk)
6) Malik
7) Shadab/Nawaz/Fahim
8) Fahim/Shadab/Nawaz
9) Hasan
10) Usman
11) Junaid

This should be our team for the next game. Asif does not seem like quality to me and it is a surprise that he is playing over Haris. Malik should be able to play the finisher role along with the all-rounders.

Amir needs a rest. He should be brought back after we find out what sort of form the rest of the bowlers are in. Need to save him for the more important games.

If Imam fails in the next India encounter, replace him with Shan if it's PakvInd final? Or give Imam a proper chance and have him play the whole tournament and judge him afterwards? I was thinking if he fails then maybe Pakistan could try Fakhar, Babar, Haris as top 3 but I doubt Babar will relinquish his 3 position..

 

[Usman Chadda]

I'm disappointed. Egos shouldn't be that fragile.

They are not, hence the refusal.

 

[Ahson8]

I am getting into blasphemous territory now, but I will say it as I see it.

Both Shadab and Fahim are overrated and are being played too much - they are glorified tail-enders who will fail against good attacks 8/10 times and do not take enough wickets against strong batting lineups.

Our middle/lower-order will continue to be fragile if we pick both. They should be rotated based on the conditions, and one of them needs to be replaced by a specialist middle-order batsman, preferably Haris.

A strong, proven middle-order can carry both of these hyped up bits and pieces players, but a middle-order with garbage like Sarfraz and unproven quantities like Asif cannot.

The fact that Shadab is being played as a first-choice spinner adds to the problem. He is out of his depth in this role because his bowling is not very good. He can fox weak teams with his googlies, but his basics are not strong enough to run through quality lineups. You cannot bank on him to deliver 10 good overs game after game.

The gulf between his bowling and that of other quality white ball spinners these days such as Rashid and Yadav etc. is quite big.

Faheem, yes, but Shadab, really ?

 

[Bilal7]

If Imam fails in the next India encounter, replace him with Shan if it's PakvInd final? Or give Imam a proper chance and have him play the whole tournament and judge him afterwards? I was thinking if he fails then maybe Pakistan could try Fakhar, Babar, Haris as top 3 but I doubt Babar will relinquish his 3 position..

I would give this lineup the entire tournament. Maybe replace Malik if he keeps failing because unlike the others, he does not have time on his hands.

Winning the Asia Cup would be fun and beating India is always a happy occasion but lets not forget that this is all just practice for the World Cup. However, it is a bit silly that these matches are being played on pitches that are totally opposite to the ones we'll see in England next year.

 

[Mamoon]

Faheem, yes, but Shadab, really ?

Your number 7 batsman needs to be nearly as good as your top-order batsmen. For example, he should be capable enough to score a ton on a good day if he comes to the crease before the 20th over, and chip in with 30-40 regularly.

Is Shadab's batting closer to the level of someone like Babar, Fakhar, Haris or Malik, or is it closer to the level of the likes of Amir and Hasan? For me, it is the latter. He is simply not capable enough to be batting at number seven. Our tail pretty much starts when we are five down, and it is a huge issue when our top six are far from top class collectively.

Our current batting unit is extraordinarily weak and too dependent on one or two players having a great day. This Shadab and Fahim combination will not work in the long-term.

 

[ads101]

The middle order is just good at performing when they're on top. If the top order is rattled, they get rattled too.

Haris is a bit slow but he has decent technique and ability to play better bowling. So needs to come in. I think Malik is on his way out, his reflexes have declined and his ability to play the pacers has worsened even still and even lower down the order he's not going to be protected from the pacers enough. And he's not turning up with those big innings against the tougher sides. Can't play a batsman who struggles against pace that much. Faheem is too weak a batsman to be taking up a slot, Shadab is more a no.8 batsman not a no.7. Asif Ali is more of a hitter, rather more suited at no.7 than building a big innings.

Hafeez isn't the answer, he's clearly lost his reflexes, way too jittery at the start and can't even excel in domestic.

I think we'll have to start getting used to playing an extra bat soon, and we're probably going to be looking at a possible middle order bat coming in to replace Malik. And if Asif Ali doesn't perform, might need to get someone in for him too.

 

[Mamoon]

The glorified tail ender shadab performed (batted) much better the atg pandya aganist England so i wonder what is pandya then.

You can celebrate and rejoice Pandya's failures in England, but you also have to consider Pandya's peak performances. Do you honestly see Shadab surpassing - or even matching - Pandya's best with the bat?

 

[Mamoon]

Who are your 5th / 6th bowlers if you drop one?

That is the problem. Shadab + Fahim weaken an already weak batting lineup, but the bowling combination is such that both have become a necessity in this moment.

You have 30 overs from Amir, Hasan and Shinwari, and 10 from Shadab. Pakistan could look into bringing a more accomplished specialist spinner who can consistently bowl 10 good overs, with Shadab sharing the 5th bowling duties in tandem with Haris, Malik and Fakhar.

Shadab should not be batting at 7 and neither should he be the frontline spinner. However, then again, does such a specialist spinner exist in Pakistan today? I'm not sure.

 

[Ahson8]

Your number 7 batsman needs to be nearly as good as your top-order batsmen. For example, he should be capable enough to score a ton on a good day if he comes to the crease before the 20th over, and chip in with 30-40 regularly.

Is Shadab's batting closer to the level of someone like Babar, Fakhar, Haris or Malik, or is it closer to the level of the likes of Amir and Hasan? For me, it is the latter. He is simply not capable enough to be batting at number seven. Our tail pretty much starts when we are five down, and it is a huge issue when our top six are far from top class collectively.

Our current batting unit is extraordinarily weak and too dependent on one or two players having a great day. This Shadab and Fahim combination will not work in the long-term.

I think you’re being too harsh, Shadab did score 50’s in New Zealand when the top order failed, and did well in the England tests too.

 

[Mamoon]

I think you’re being too harsh, Shadab did score 50’s in New Zealand when the top order failed, and did well in the England tests too.

Even when he scored some runs, he has never looked in control to me. I have very little faith in his batting and he does not give the impression of a proper batsman. His dismissal in the last game was very tail-ender like. A proper batsmen rarely gets off-balance like he did.

If he turns up at 9 or 10, I don't think he will look out of place. However, he does look out of place at 7. Watching him arrive to the crease when Pakistan are 5 down makes me very nervous and anxious.

 

[Ned Flanders]

Even when he scored some runs, he has never looked in control to me. I have very little faith in his batting and he does not give the impression of a proper batsman. His dismissal in the last game was very tail-ender like. A proper batsmen rarely gets off-balance like he did.

If he turns up at 9 or 10, I don't think he will look out of place. However, he does look out of place at 7. Watching him arrive to the crease when Pakistan are 5 down makes me very nervous and anxious.

He'd be perfect for Number 8 or 9 and strengthen our tail.

Is he a good enough bowler though to take a bowlers spot?

 

[indianpanacea]

That's problem one loss and tongues start wagging... Be patient.. Afterall this is the same bunch that got u champions trophy and latter on white wash at hands of New Zealand...i would not love a batting order as below being an Indian fan
Fakhar
Sarfaraz
Babar
Haris sohail
Asad shafiq
Shoaib malik
Asif ali
Shahdab
Amir
Hassan
Junaid

 

[Gotham Cronie]

That is the problem. Shadab + Fahim weaken an already weak batting lineup, but the bowling combination is such that both have become a necessity in this moment.

You have 30 overs from Amir, Hasan and Shinwari, and 10 from Shadab. Pakistan could look into bringing a more accomplished specialist spinner who can consistently bowl 10 good overs, with Shadab sharing the 5th bowling duties in tandem with Haris, Malik and Fakhar.

Shadab should not be batting at 7 and neither should he be the frontline spinner. However, then again, does such a specialist spinner exist in Pakistan today? I'm not sure.

But I thought your whole premise of dropping either Shadab or Faheem was that our middle order is weak. How does dropping one of them and bringing in a specialist spinner help that?

 

[babajee]

Even when he scored some runs, he has never looked in control to me. I have very little faith in his batting and he does not give the impression of a proper batsman. His dismissal in the last game was very tail-ender like. A proper batsmen rarely gets off-balance like he did.

If he turns up at 9 or 10, I don't think he will look out of place. However, he does look out of place at 7. Watching him arrive to the crease when Pakistan are 5 down makes me very nervous and anxious.

Because improvement isn't a thing is it?

 

[Xoib]

You can celebrate and rejoice Pandya's failures in England, but you also have to consider Pandya's peak performances. Do you honestly see Shadab surpassing - or even matching - Pandya's best with the bat?

Pandaya best with the bat in England was a score of 52 during declaration batting stop over rating Pandaya apart from that one spell at Trent bridge he was useless and one of the main reasons India lost the series 4-1 instead of winning 3-2

 

[Mamoon]

Pandaya best with the bat in England was a score of 52 during declaration batting stop over rating Pandaya apart from that one spell at Trent bridge he was useless and one of the main reasons India lost the series 4-1 instead of winning 3-2

Again, I don't see the point of being fixated with the England tour. Yes Pandya didn't do as well as could and should have, but I am talking about his peak performances in his career and not just in England.

Do you see Shadab scoring a Test hundred at an ODI strike rate, a 90+ in South Africa on a green pitch against Rabada and Morkel, 70 in 40 balls in an ODI, 80 in 60 balls against Australia when his team were reeling at 50-5 and then following it up with a 70 in 70 balls to chase down 250+?

These are Pandya's best batting performances so far. Do honestly see Shadab matching that?

 

[Mamoon]

But I thought your whole premise of dropping either Shadab or Faheem was that our middle order is weak. How does dropping one of them and bringing in a specialist spinner help that?

Weak middle-order + Shadab is not reliable enough to be the first-choice spinner tasked with delivering 10 overs every game. The ideal situation would be a specialist batsman replacing Fahim and a specialist spinner replacing Shadab. This would strengthen both the middle-order and the bowling attack simultaneously.

 

[silent ischemia]

I am getting into blasphemous territory now, but I will say it as I see it.

Both Shadab and Fahim are overrated and are being played too much - they are glorified tail-enders who will fail against good attacks 8/10 times and do not take enough wickets against strong batting lineups.

Our middle/lower-order will continue to be fragile if we pick both. They should be rotated based on the conditions, and one of them needs to be replaced by a specialist middle-order batsman, preferably Haris.

A strong, proven middle-order can carry both of these hyped up bits and pieces players, but a middle-order with garbage like Sarfraz and unproven quantities like Asif cannot.

The fact that Shadab is being played as a first-choice spinner adds to the problem. He is out of his depth in this role because his bowling is not very good. He can fox weak teams with his googlies, but his basics are not strong enough to run through quality lineups. You cannot bank on him to deliver 10 good overs game after game.

The gulf between his bowling and that of other quality white ball spinners these days such as Rashid and Yadav etc. is quite big.

Agreed as far as Faheem is concerned. I dont remember him scoring 30 plus in an odi. He is an okay bowler on green tops but in these conditions being a below par batsman he better be replaced by Harris; a proper batsman who can also bowl 5-6 decent overs in these conditions.

 

[Mamoon]

Because improvement isn't a thing is it?

International cricket is not a platform for improving a glorified tail-ender into a top-order quality batsman by playing him at 5. That is going to cost you matches - it is ridiculous to see Shadab hogging a very important batting position when he is nowhere near ready.

If Pakistan are serious about developing him into a top-order batsman, they send him back to domestics and instruct his F/C team and his PSL franchise to bat him in the top four or top five. That is the only way he can develop his batting.

What role does he play in the team now? He can neither make an impact with either bat or ball against quality sides. He bats at five but he cannot bat well enough, and he bowls 10 overs as a frontline spinner but his bowling does not have much of an impact against good batting sides.

Sure he might run through a minnow every now and then, but is he someone who could change the game in the middle-overs against top sides? I doubt so.

It pains me to say this but Hafeez can play Shadab's current role with much better efficiency. His batting is better and he would probably take the same number of wickets against good teams but with probably better economy rate.

We really need to rethink our strategy. We are weakening both our batting and our bowling by over-playing glorified bits and pieces players like Shadab and Fahim in the hope that they will develop into genuine all-rounders.

 

[Mamoon]

Agreed as far as Faheem is concerned. I dont remember him scoring 30 plus in an odi. He is an okay bowler on green tops but in these conditions being a below par batsman he better be replaced by Harris; a proper batsman who can also bowl 5-6 decent overs in these conditions.

We don't have genuine all-rounders at the moment, and our fixation in forcing players like Shadab and Fahim into those roles are creating problems that should not exist. Shadab and Fahim are not good enough batsmen to be 5 down and 6 down, and Shadab is not good enough with the ball to be the main spinner trusted with 10 overs every game.

Fahim is a completely pointless player at the moment. His batting is barely better than that of Amir and Hasan and his bowling is probably the weakest in the team excluding part-timers.

 

[Usman Chadda]

We don’t need Haris in the middle-order. Yes he has two fifties against New Zealand, but they were slow fifties and not good enough. He should reinvent himself as an opener as far LOIs are concerned. Plays proper cricketing shots against swing bowling.

 

[Madplayer]

Haris
Fakhar
Babar
Shadab
Sarfaraz
Malik
Asif
Faheem
Bowlers

Find me a better batting line up in Pakistan and i will give you my third hand water cooler no questions asked.

 

[DRsohail]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] the old Mamoon is back with analysis spot on,Fahim has no role in this team and Shadab has sown zero improvement in batting and bowling .Agreed we have to play Haris Sohail for Fahim to accomodate a proper bat but again who will be the bowler who can fulfill his 10 overs quota as Haris Sohail is part timer.

 

[Madplayer]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] the old Mamoon is back with analysis spot on,Fahim has no role in this team and Shadab has sown zero improvement in batting and bowling .Agreed we have to play Haris Sohail for Fahim to accomodate a proper bat but again who will be the bowler who can fulfill his 10 overs quota as Haris Sohail is part timer.

Shadab bowled 1 over and got a set Rohit sharma out.

 

[Usman Chadda]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] the old Mamoon is back with analysis spot on,Fahim has no role in this team and Shadab has sown zero improvement in batting and bowling .Agreed we have to play Haris Sohail for Fahim to accomodate a proper bat but again who will be the bowler who can fulfill his 10 overs quota as Haris Sohail is part timer.

How many games have Faheem and Shadab played? Then we complain when our players don’t develop. Fans here are certainly the most dumb of any other cricketing country.

 

[Usman Chadda]

The level of cricketing understanding is zero for most fans here. You are bashing Faheem and Shadab for not saving your butts when your top order batsmen screwed you at 110-6 on a slow wicket? You want to stick Haris Sohail in a middle-order which already has Malik and Babar? Is there something wrong with you lot or are you criticising just for the sake of criticism?

 

[DRsohail]

[MENTION=758]Usman[/MENTION] chada Fahim has done nothing in batting so far and we all know Shadab has not shown any improvement in batting . It’s my observation . Just show me one good innings that Fahim has played in internationals?? Shadab is just at best can be a 20 to 25 average batsman which is not suitable for a bat saktay number 7 . He can be a number 8 at best.

 

[DRsohail]

The level of cricketing understanding is zero for most fans here. You are bashing Faheem and Shadab for not saving your butts when your top order batsmen screwed you at 110-6 on a slow wicket? You want to stick Haris Sohail in a middle-order which already has Malik and Babar? Is there something wrong with you lot or are you criticising just for the sake of criticism?

its not about just one match it’s about balance. If we are 190 for 5 ,do you think shadab can be reliable to take us to 280 or can he chase if the target is 280??i will say big no.

 

[Usman Chadda]

its not about just one match it’s about balance. If we are 190 for 5 ,do you think shadab can be reliable to take us to 280 or can he chase if the target is 280??i will say big no.

Can Haris? He gets stuck, specially against quality spinners. He's a top order batsman unfairly billed as a gun MO batter.

 

[Bilal7]

Your number 7 batsman needs to be nearly as good as your top-order batsmen. For example, he should be capable enough to score a ton on a good day if he comes to the crease before the 20th over, and chip in with 30-40 regularly.

Is Shadab's batting closer to the level of someone like Babar, Fakhar, Haris or Malik, or is it closer to the level of the likes of Amir and Hasan? For me, it is the latter. He is simply not capable enough to be batting at number seven. Our tail pretty much starts when we are five down, and it is a huge issue when our top six are far from top class collectively.

Our current batting unit is extraordinarily weak and too dependent on one or two players having a great day. This Shadab and Fahim combination will not work in the long-term.

I agree. However, we have been lacking good lower-order batsmen for years now. The last one was Razzaq. If we can find a couple of batsmen for the #6 and #7 spots, our team will become much stronger as a whole.

The rest of the batting is pretty strong and there is good depth in the bowling department as well.

 

[Bilal7]

The level of cricketing understanding is zero for most fans here. You are bashing Faheem and Shadab for not saving your butts when your top order batsmen screwed you at 110-6 on a slow wicket? You want to stick Haris Sohail in a middle-order which already has Malik and Babar? Is there something wrong with you lot or are you criticising just for the sake of criticism?

It's not one match. Neither Shadab, nor Fahim is a #7 batsman. They should both be competing for the #8 spot, at least until they improve their batting.

Haris Sohail is not a #7 either but he is a proper batsman (who can bowl a bit) and exactly what we needed. He should bat at #4 today with Sarfaraz and Malik to follow. Something like this:

1) Imam
2) Fakhar
3) Babar
4) Haris
5) Sarfaraz
6) Malik
7) Asif
8) Nawaz
9, 10 and 11.