Moeen Ali - Performance Watch

[James]

What a corking player he is turning out to be. May not always have the sharpest numbers on paper, but adds tremendous value whenever he is involved in the action on the field.

 

[CricFan2012]

id like to see some more under pressure knocks and him winning world cup matches before rating.

Scoring when your team has already laid a base isn't as good as chasing oe scoring when your team is struggling

 

[Sherlock]

Mate, I'm praising him not diminishing him. He's so incredibly gifted that all he needed were the very basics, front foot movement and alignment of the head with it to be elite. It's not that he doesn't know these things but most likely had trouble implementing them because he'd already settled into a style of play.

If instilled at a young age, ideally pre-teen or early teen years, they become the foundation of your batting and then you let your natural talent take over. Someone of Moeen's ability would've become impossible to bowl to. That's all I meant.

But once again you bring the young age part into it. It's not about a young age. Sometimes players aren't good with a short/moving ball despite training at a young age.

Kohli of all people struggles with the away swing on off-stump line.

Cook has been known to struggle against the shorter ball for a few years now.

It happens to everyone. If you have a batsmen that is good against the short ball and the moving delivery you'll have the best player in the history of the game.

I know you're praising him, but some things aren't as easy to fix and you may think.

 

[Sherlock]

id like to see some more under pressure knocks and him winning world cup matches before rating.

Scoring when your team has already laid a base isn't as good as chasing oe scoring when your team is struggling

He's scored under pressure in Tests and in ODIs. It's not as if England have been laying the groundwork for him to just out slog everything.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

But once again you bring the young age part into it. It's not about a young age. Sometimes players aren't good with a short/moving ball despite training at a young age.

Kohli of all people struggles with the away swing on off-stump line.

Cook has been known to struggle against the shorter ball for a few years now.

It happens to everyone. If you have a batsmen that is good against the short ball and the moving delivery you'll have the best player in the history of the game.

I know you're praising him, but some things aren't as easy to fix and you may think.

Cook is one of the better players of the short ball.

Their deficiencies are minor, his are major. Far easier to exploit while they can cover theirs in most cases. Cook and Kohli are susceptible against lateral movement but not to the extent Moeen is. No batsman is perfect but the greatest strive to perfect their craft and have figured a way to reduce that gap.

I'm not saying if taught at a young age that all batsmen would become elite players of lateral movement. Most players won't for various reasons; temperamental, lack of physical ability, etc. But if the foundation is laid from a young age, you are in a better position to succeed. Moeen lacks that foundation but his natural gifts let him overcome those deficiencies, especially in white ball cricket. What I'm arguing and you're free to disagree is: had Moeen instilled those basic foundations into his game from a young age, he's so naturally gifted that he would become impossible to bowl to. Once again, I'm speaking very basic, front foot movement and head aligning with the front foot. Nothing exceptional like textbook techniques of Kallis or a Gavaskar.

 

[Bilal7]

id like to see some more under pressure knocks and him winning world cup matches before rating.

Scoring when your team has already laid a base isn't as good as chasing oe scoring when your team is struggling

Did you even watch the last two games? He scored under pressure in both of them and in today's game, chased the target down easily, albeit a Duckworth Lewis target.

 

[Sherlock]

Cook is one of the better players of the short ball.

Their deficiencies are minor, his are major. Far easier to exploit while they can cover theirs in most cases. Cook and Kohli are susceptible against lateral movement but not to the extent Moeen is. No batsman is perfect but the greatest strive to perfect their craft and have figured a way to reduce that gap.

I'm not saying if taught at a young age that all batsmen would become elite players of lateral movement. Most players won't for various reasons; temperamental, lack of physical ability, etc. But if the foundation is laid from a young age, you are in a better position to succeed. Moeen lacks that foundation but his natural gifts let him overcome those deficiencies, especially in white ball cricket. What I'm arguing and you're free to disagree is: had Moeen instilled those basic foundations into his game from a young age, he's so naturally gifted that he would become impossible to bowl to. Once again, I'm speaking very basic, front foot movement and head aligning with the front foot. Nothing exceptional like textbook techniques of Kallis or a Gavaskar.

I'm sorry but Ali's deficiencies are major? Goodness me.

I really can't be arsed.

 

[CricFan2012]

Did you even watch the last two games? He scored under pressure in both of them and in today's game, chased the target down easily, albeit a Duckworth Lewis target.

there was already a platform set, he could play risk free

 

[Abdullah719]

there was already a platform set, he could play risk free

In the previous ODI, he came in to bat at 210/5 and played at a decent pace for a while before going berserk at the end. Root got out soon and made it 217/6 so another wicket or two and WI could have wrapped up the innings for around 270-280. However, Moeen put on a good partnership with Woakes and then went berserk at the end. Not under tons of pressure but still it was a super way to finish the innings.

Today was a tougher situation though. England were 192/5 chasing 357, the required run-rate was climbing with the threat of rain looming. Moeen and Buttler read the situation really well and got England ahead of the DLS par score before the rain arrived.

 

[mak36]

In the previous ODI, he came in to bat at 210/5 and played at a decent pace for a while before going berserk at the end. Root got out soon and made it 217/6 so another wicket or two and WI could have wrapped up the innings for around 270-280. However, Moeen put on a good partnership with Woakes and then went berserk at the end. Not under tons of pressure but still it was a super way to finish the innings.

Today was a tougher situation though. England were 192/5 chasing 357, the required run-rate was climbing with the threat of rain looming. Moeen and Buttler read the situation really well and got England ahead of the DLS par score before the rain arrived.

Exactly. I swear some fans just don't want to be happy. Both of these innings were pressure knocks.

 

[James]

I actually think it is quite clear from Moeen's last 18 months of cricket that pressure does not bother him at all. Sometimes that is the problem of course, because there are occasions when he has played inappropriately in the context of the match and made a fool of himself. But more often than not his liberated daredevil approach has come off, and not only has this been a treat to watch, it has turned entire matches on its head.

 

[Bilal7]

I'm sorry but Ali's deficiencies are major? Goodness me.

I really can't be arsed.

Ali bats one down for his county and was considered for the opening spot early on in his career. He doesn't have any major weaknesses against the moving ball, however he isn't the best against the bouncers.

Matters little for a lower-order batsman however. Just ask Dhoni or Afridi.

there was already a platform set, he could play risk free

Risk free? He hit a truckload of sixes in both matches so this makes no sense. I think you mean he could play without pressure which again makes zero sense because 1) Ali has played superb innings when the bats above him have been dismissed cheaply and 2) there was no real platform set. Had he been dismissed for a duck, England would have lost both matches.

 

[Robert]

Well, he will move up to #7 now. A good chance for him.

 

[Bilal7]

West Indies scores 280 in today's game and Ali's figures were exceptional: 10 overs, 36 runs and the wicket of Marlon Samuels. Moeen Ali is clearly very hand with the ball.

 

[CricFan2012]

Decent outing with the ball, this Ashes is the true test for all these english cricketers

 

[Messiah]

Better all-rounder than stokes and will prove that soon

 

[Bilal7]

Very good start from Moeen Ali. Looked like a proper #6 and lead spinner thus far and has handled the pressure better than most others. He'll be invaluable if he continues performing with bat and ball.

 

[Abdullah719]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">"Moeen Ali is the weak link!"<a href="https://twitter.com/GeoffreyBoycott?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@GeoffreyBoycott</a> makes a statement on England's spinner, <a href="https://twitter.com/Swannyg66?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Swannyg66</a> backs him up...<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Ashes?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Ashes</a> <a href="https://t.co/NPkYhEjYPy">pic.twitter.com/NPkYhEjYPy</a></p>— The Ashes on BT Sport (@btsportcricket) <a href="https://twitter.com/btsportcricket/status/938296762309234688?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 6, 2017</a></blockquote>
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Thoughts [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION]?

 

[Boi]

Typical English pundits. He was supposedly their best batsmen the last game and now a game later he's a weak link.

The damaged finger clearly affected his bowling and along with his far from ideal preparation for this series it's really no surprise that he hasn't done too well. They need to cut him so slack seriously.

 

[HitWicket]

Typical English pundits. He was supposedly their best batsmen the last game and now a game later he's a weak link.

The damaged finger clearly affected his bowling and along with his far from ideal preparation for this series it's really no surprise that he hasn't done too well. They need to cut him so slack seriously.

Quite clearly referring to him as the weak link in the bowling attack.

 

[giri26]

Moeen Ali isn't your premier spinner. If you are going to play him as a lone spinner then you are going to be in trouble. Yes he did well against India 3 years ago and bowled well at home but again he is at best a 5th bowler and England should look for a spinner who can actually pick wickets. The Performance of Nathan Lyon has been the difference between the two teams. Moeen hasn't been even close to what Lyon has been doing.

 

[Bilal7]

Moeen Ali isn't your premier spinner. If you are going to play him as a lone spinner then you are going to be in trouble. Yes he did well against India 3 years ago and bowled well at home but again he is at best a 5th bowler and England should look for a spinner who can actually pick wickets. The Performance of Nathan Lyon has been the difference between the two teams. Moeen hasn't been even close to what Lyon has been doing.

Lyon is the best off-spinner in the world. Moeen is obviously no match for him. However, he's the best England have got. No point is saying that England should find someone else because there is no one else.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Having as much effect as Swann did. At least he won't embarrass England by running away.

 

[shaz619]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">"Moeen Ali is the weak link!"<a href="https://twitter.com/GeoffreyBoycott?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@GeoffreyBoycott</a> makes a statement on England's spinner, <a href="https://twitter.com/Swannyg66?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Swannyg66</a> backs him up...<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Ashes?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Ashes</a> <a href="https://t.co/NPkYhEjYPy">pic.twitter.com/NPkYhEjYPy</a></p>— The Ashes on BT Sport (@btsportcricket) <a href="https://twitter.com/btsportcricket/status/938296762309234688?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 6, 2017</a></blockquote>
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Thoughts [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION]?

A bit harsh to be honest, only a series earlier he was deemed by the same guys the one to watch outside the likes of Stokes due to his impact ability. Also, Mo is not 100% fit, options are thin and spinners in general find it tough in AUS; would have thought Swan of all people would be more sympathetic. One thing about Ali is, he has the fighting spirit; he won't quit like others did when they toured AUS. Anyhow, options are thin so Mo will be backed even if it means playing as a specialist batsman. More recently, he was made captain of the team scheduled to play the warm up game prior to the next Test match; [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] this could be a test for the VC role or they are grooming him and maybe down the line he has a small chance to replace Root like you wanted.

 

[HitWicket]

A bit harsh to be honest, only a series earlier he was deemed by the same guys the one to watch outside the likes of Stokes due to his impact ability. Also, Mo is not 100% fit, options are thin and spinners in general find it tough in AUS; would have thought Swan of all people would be more sympathetic. One thing about Ali is, he has the fighting spirit; he won't quit like others did when they toured AUS. Anyhow, options are thin so Mo will be backed even if it means playing as a specialist batsman. More recently, he was made captain of the team scheduled to play the warm up game prior to the next Test match; [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] this could be a test for the VC role or they are grooming him and maybe down the line he has a small chance to replace Root like you wanted.

More likely the fact that he's the only one from the XI playing because of his recent fitness issues and poor bowling form.

 

[hadi123]

Australia is known to be a graveyard for a lot of spinners so not surprised Ali's bowling, which is only his secondary role has not been successful. He needs to get more runs with the bat though.

 

[shaz619]

More likely the fact that he's the only one from the XI playing because of his recent fitness issues and poor bowling form.

If you read my post I mentioned those but am not sure you read it all or the points made went over your head?

 

[HitWicket]

If you read my post I mentioned those but am not sure you read it all or the points made went over your head?

Was referring to why he's captaining.

 

[shaz619]

Was referring to why he's captaining.

Perhaps but my points remain, if he wasn't Moeen Ali he wouldn't have found himself in that position to begin with; it's also an opportunity to impress, lets just hope Mason Crane doesn't fail him

 

[HitWicket]

Perhaps but my points remain, if he wasn't Moeen Ali he wouldn't have found himself in that position to begin with; it's also an opportunity to impress, lets just hope Mason Crane doesn't fail him

Alternatively if he'd bowled a bit better he wouldn't be finding himself in this position anyway .

 

[shaz619]

Alternatively if he'd bowled a bit better he wouldn't be finding himself in this position anyway .

Touche rumour has it Crane bit Mo's fingers during his beauty sleep

 

[shaz619]

Tbh it's good that Mo is getting to play the warm up, his preparation for the ashes has been far from ideal

 

[FreePalestine]

Pretty harsh from Swann and Boycott (obviously). He just had the summer of his life in England, man of the series, man of the match awards, up for Eng player of 2017 with Root and Anderson. Two bad matches, one while carrying an injury, and you want to drop him?! A lot of unconscious bias on this issue by Engish pundits generally, especially evident here.

Even if you want to play Crane or Leach, dropping Moeen and not Malan would not be smart. On batting alone, he deserves to be in the side based on recent form.

 

[MMHS]

A bit harsh to be honest, only a series earlier he was deemed by the same guys the one to watch outside the likes of Stokes due to his impact ability. Also, Mo is not 100% fit, options are thin and spinners in general find it tough in AUS; would have thought Swan of all people would be more sympathetic. One thing about Ali is, he has the fighting spirit; he won't quit like others did when they toured AUS. Anyhow, options are thin so Mo will be backed even if it means playing as a specialist batsman. More recently, he was made captain of the team scheduled to play the warm up game prior to the next Test match; [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] this could be a test for the VC role or they are grooming him and maybe down the line he has a small chance to replace Root like you wanted.

I don't want to use that word, but Boyce isn't helping his reputation. He is picking the guy for not posting 400, who comes at 6 and still bowling 35+ tight overs. I probably can point 5 batsmen coming in front of him who are not justifying their spot as specialist bat. Lets go straight to numbers - everyone has batted 4 innings and none remained NO (so average in straight runs/innings); this is what Poms top 7 has done
Cook - 62/4; Stoneman - 134/4; Vince - 102/4 (with one 83); Root - 142/4; Malan - 108/4; JB - 108/4; Ali - 105/4. On top of that, beard has bowled 63 overs (2/196), and has 2 catches - so, obviously Boyce hasn't looked at the numbers or he has seen other things than numbers first.

Coming to the bowling - I think, I have bashed enough on ENG's fascination on "spinner, who can bat", so at least I'll thank Swan to call spade as a spade. In ENG team, I can't explain why Overton (Or Woakes) is there over Masson - if 3 can't do it, 4th won't. I was suggesting MA for next Pom Captain - I have moved from that. What Boyce is telling on record, it gives me enough indication of what'll happen if the guy is made Captain.

I wonder, why these pundits are not talking about Foakes playing for one of Vince or Malan and Johnny batting higher.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

He’s still very hit and miss with the ball. In the summer he was outstanding vs SA but average vs the WIs. Before that he was superb vs Bangladesh followed up with a poor series vs India.

He’s clearly not a part time spinner but he’s not quite a front line spinner yet either imo.

Seems a bit unfair to specifically target him here though because several England players have underperformed in the Ashes thus far but they're not getting the negative attention Moeen is.

 

[shaz619]

I don't want to use that word, but Boyce isn't helping his reputation. He is picking the guy for not posting 400, who comes at 6 and still bowling 35+ tight overs. I probably can point 5 batsmen coming in front of him who are not justifying their spot as specialist bat. Lets go straight to numbers - everyone has batted 4 innings and none remained NO (so average in straight runs/innings); this is what Poms top 7 has done
Cook - 62/4; Stoneman - 134/4; Vince - 102/4 (with one 83); Root - 142/4; Malan - 108/4; JB - 108/4; Ali - 105/4. On top of that, beard has bowled 63 overs (2/196), and has 2 catches - so, obviously Boyce hasn't looked at the numbers or he has seen other things than numbers first.

Coming to the bowling - I think, I have bashed enough on ENG's fascination on "spinner, who can bat", so at least I'll thank Swan to call spade as a spade. In ENG team, I can't explain why Overton (Or Woakes) is there over Masson - if 3 can't do it, 4th won't. I was suggesting MA for next Pom Captain - I have moved from that. What Boyce is telling on record, it gives me enough indication of what'll happen if the guy is made Captain.

I wonder, why these pundits are not talking about Foakes playing for one of Vince or Malan and Johnny batting higher.

Maybe they should drop Mo, then I'd love to see the response of these same pundits after another defeat. You're right, I suspect he wouldn't really get a chance to flourish with the arm band much rather have him focus on his game. In England's 1st innings in the last game, Overton top scored! in the second innings one batsman passed 40 runs! but we have a big Moeen Ali problem an A/R that is fundamentally the root cause of our poor performances

 

[Abdullah719]

But Moeen is not in the mood for excuses. “You feel like you’ve let the team down, and the captain especially,” he says. “Lyon is bowling so well. Everything – the revs, the areas he’s bowling. It’s only been two games. I do believe I can bowl better.”

Moeen shows us the injured finger. The gash – caused by the sharp, unfamiliar seam on the Kookaburra ball – has closed over, but the healing is still uneven, the swirling weals of skin clearly still raw. He will captain a second-string England side in a two-day warm-up game in Perth this weekend to get miles in his legs, but he will not bowl. But he adds: “I don't want to keep blaming the injury. I haven't bowled well.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/cricket/moeen-ali-england-australia-ashes-cricket-a8099671.html

 

[shaz619]

But Moeen is not in the mood for excuses. “You feel like you’ve let the team down, and the captain especially,” he says. “Lyon is bowling so well. Everything – the revs, the areas he’s bowling. It’s only been two games. I do believe I can bowl better.”

Moeen shows us the injured finger. The gash – caused by the sharp, unfamiliar seam on the Kookaburra ball – has closed over, but the healing is still uneven, the swirling weals of skin clearly still raw. He will captain a second-string England side in a two-day warm-up game in Perth this weekend to get miles in his legs, but he will not bowl. But he adds: “I don't want to keep blaming the injury. I haven't bowled well.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/cricket/moeen-ali-england-australia-ashes-cricket-a8099671.html

He has always been such a good sport and has the 'warrior spirit' as Chris Eubank snr would say lol [MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION]

 

[shaz619]

But Moeen is not in the mood for excuses. “You feel like you’ve let the team down, and the captain especially,” he says. “Lyon is bowling so well. Everything – the revs, the areas he’s bowling. It’s only been two games. I do believe I can bowl better.”

Moeen shows us the injured finger. The gash – caused by the sharp, unfamiliar seam on the Kookaburra ball – has closed over, but the healing is still uneven, the swirling weals of skin clearly still raw. He will captain a second-string England side in a two-day warm-up game in Perth this weekend to get miles in his legs, but he will not bowl. But he adds: “I don't want to keep blaming the injury. I haven't bowled well.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/cricket/moeen-ali-england-australia-ashes-cricket-a8099671.html

Beware of the wounded tiger

 

[James]

He is being forced to play through an injury because with Stokes out he is the only quasi-decent all-rounder in the squad. I would take his performance levels with a pinch of salt at the moment.

 

[ExpressPacer]

Doesn't deserve a spot in the team for the Aussie tour, but that's just my opinion.

 

[Bilal7]

He is being forced to play through an injury because with Stokes out he is the only quasi-decent all-rounder in the squad. I would take his performance levels with a pinch of salt at the moment.

Agreed. He would have done much better if he hadn't been injured twice on tour already.

Hopefully, he'll be someway near full fitness for the third test.

 

[Timewaster]

He can win them a Test match by himself, and they want to drop him lol
How many other match winners do thay have in the team? Anderson, Broad and maybe Root

 

[CricFan2012]

Moeen is turning into a HTB, he needs to improve his spin

 

[ExpressPacer]

What makes you say that?

 

[Hasan123]

What makes you say that?

Lyon has dismissed him 4 times out of 4.

 

[Robert]

But Moeen is not in the mood for excuses. “You feel like you’ve let the team down, and the captain especially,” he says. “Lyon is bowling so well. Everything – the revs, the areas he’s bowling. It’s only been two games. I do believe I can bowl better.”

Moeen shows us the injured finger. The gash – caused by the sharp, unfamiliar seam on the Kookaburra ball – has closed over, but the healing is still uneven, the swirling weals of skin clearly still raw. He will captain a second-string England side in a two-day warm-up game in Perth this weekend to get miles in his legs, but he will not bowl. But he adds: “I don't want to keep blaming the injury. I haven't bowled well.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/cricket/moeen-ali-england-australia-ashes-cricket-a8099671.html

I admire his self-awareness.

Play him just as a batter at #6 and give Crane a bowl. It’s Perth which should help the leggie.

 

[jaf348]

He's been extremely poor all series. Little to no contribution with the bat. What were English selectors thinking that a bits and pieces offie could be their frontline spinner down under.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Should try mason crane instead.

 

[Mamoon]

This series has proved the fact that he is nowhere close to Stokes.

 

[Usman Chadda]

This series has proved the fact that he is nowhere close to Stokes.

When was that EVER in doubt? Moeen will forever be an inconsistent cricketer capable of the brilliant, but equally capable of the worst.

 

[Ab Fan]

Moen was expected to be England main man when they toured India while Stokes was expected to be one in Australia.

Moen was unconvincing in India particularly with the bowl and as expected pretty dismal here too. He is turning out to be a Home Track Bully.

Shakib, Ashwin and Stokes are at different level.

 

[Sam99]

This series has proved the fact that he is nowhere close to Stokes.

Stokes would have struggled in ashes as well. Maybe few wickets here and there and fifties but he is no matchwinner outside england.

 

[Ab Fan]

Stokes, on other hand, did well with the bowl in India if you look beyond the stats.

But again he has himself to blame for not playing in Australia when he could have been the key man for them and won a match when mattered, particularly, the first one.

 

[Ab Fan]

Stokes would have struggled in ashes as well. Maybe few wickets here and there and fifties but he is no matchwinner outside england.

He was MOS in England series win to South Africa in South Africa. Australian conditions would have suited him.

 

[James]

Looks like Moeen might be a Home Track Bully player. But what a Bully he is! Should definitely be in the side for every home Test going forward; meanwhile they should take more of a “horses for courses” approach with him abroad - sometimes pick him, sometimes have him carrying the drinks. He has had a nightmare tour here but let that not extinguish the memories of his numerous magnificent contributions in home matches.

 

[Savage]

Stokes would have struggled in ashes as well. Maybe few wickets here and there and fifties but he is no matchwinner outside england.

Stokes performed brilliantly when he last toured in Australia,India,Bangladesh and South Africa.

He was arguably England's best player in each of these countries

 

[MenInG]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">As a spinner on Day 5 with your team bowling for a victory .. if you can’t have aggressive fields you shouldn’t be in the team IMO .. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/OnOn?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#OnOn</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Ashes?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Ashes</a></p>— Michael Vaughan (@MichaelVaughan) <a href="https://twitter.com/MichaelVaughan/status/946905563908096001?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 30, 2017</a></blockquote>
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[James]

Stokes would have struggled in ashes as well. Maybe few wickets here and there and fifties but he is no matchwinner outside england.

What about his brilliant performances in South Africa?

 

[Sam99]

What about his brilliant performances in South Africa?

Not sure if he would have won even 1 match in ashes. His bowling won't trouble you on aus pitches and aus would have managed him like they did for whole england batting lineup.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Have they been measuring the spinner’s rpm this series. Anyone know what kind of figures Moeen was getting?

 

[MenInG]

Former England spinner Graeme Swann says he "can't see how" Moeen Ali fits into the team for the final Ashes Test against Australia in Sydney.

Moeen, 30, has taken only three wickets with his off-spin and averages 19 with the bat in the first four Tests.

"His place in the team has to be in jeopardy. His confidence has to be rock bottom," Swann told BBC Sport.

Australia held on to draw the fourth Test in Melbourne on Saturday and preserve their 3-0 series lead.

The fifth Test at the Sydney Cricket Ground starts on 4 January (23:30 GMT on 3 January).

Worcestershire's Moeen has made five centuries and taken 131 wickets in 48 Tests since making his debut in 2014, but has struggled on his first Ashes tour.

England could give 20-year-old leg-spinner Mason Crane his Test debut at the SCG, which traditionally aids spinners.

"I feel for Mo. He's fighting demons at the moment," said Swann, who took 255 wickets in 60 Tests and won the Ashes three times.

"His confidence is so low that when he bowls there are no revolutions on the ball, no energy in his action.

"Unless they play two spinners in Sydney, I can't see how you could fit Moeen into the team.

"I would like to have a look at Mason Crane. He should be bowling every day in the nets. He should be as ready as you can be to play a Test match."

Moeen's preparations for the Ashes series were hampered by a side strain that meant he could play in only one of the three warm-up games.

He then suffered a cut to his spinning finger in the first Test defeat in Brisbane.

"Moeen has had a tough tour," said England captain Joe Root.

"We have had a number of guys respond well to a difficult few weeks already here, and there's no reason why Moeen can't do that.

"He will have a big future for England. It is important that everyone knows that."

Moeen has managed only one wicket since Brisbane and was overlooked in favour of part-time leg-spinner Dawid Malan at times on the final day in Melbourne.

At one stage on the fifth day, Australia were four wickets down with a lead of only 14 runs.

However, on a placid, unresponsive surface, the home side were taken to a draw by captain Steve Smith's unbeaten 102, his third century of the series.

"We will never know if a win would have been possible if England had had a high-class spinner," said former England captain Michael Vaughan.

"If you can't bowl on the last day when the team is bowling for victory, then you can't really play."

Moeen made 20 off 14 balls in England's first-innings 491. He was dropped at long-off before he cut off-spinner Nathan Lyon to short cover.

"His batting looked like he had a muddled mind and wasn't thinking clearly," added Vaughan, who played 82 Tests and led England to victory in the 2005 Ashes.

"People will say that he tried to be positive, but this was the perfect pitch to bat on. It really concerned me that he thought that was the way to go on this wicket.

"England generally don't change, but you have got to look after the individual. It would be doing the right thing by Moeen to leave him out."

http://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/42521457

 

[Bewal Express]

It could end up as Moeens last test, but what cant be denied is that he has had a very good career. If his doesnt improve his bowling he wont play any form of the game.

 

[Bewal Express]

Have they been measuring the spinner’s rpm this series. Anyone know what kind of figures Moeen was getting?

I dont have BT, but on the live stream he seemed to have less revs than me.

 

[hadi123]

It could end up as Moeens last test, but what cant be denied is that he has had a very good career. If his doesnt improve his bowling he wont play any form of the game.

Bit of a knee jerk reaction? Don't think he will be dropped for a while but I agree that he has been poor this series.

 

[James]

It could end up as Moeens last test, but what cant be denied is that he has had a very good career. If his doesnt improve his bowling he wont play any form of the game.

Wow! He was just one of the best players of the English season. Maybe a bit of an overreaction to say that he can’t come back from this. It could end up being a one series blip, or a specific country where he doesn’t do well.

 

[TeymurBlake]

I really feel for Moeen, he's been tremendous at home for England but has failed this series. Alot of players have performed abysmally but have contributed here and there but Moeen hasn't at all. Failed with the bowl and hasn't contributed with the bat at all. Tough tour for him

 

[Bilal7]

Moen was expected to be England main man when they toured India while Stokes was expected to be one in Australia.

Moen was unconvincing in India particularly with the bowl and as expected pretty dismal here too. He is turning out to be a Home Track Bully.

Shakib, Ashwin and Stokes are at different level.

*Moeen.

Moeen scored two centuries in India and was arguably one of their best batsmen on tour. He wasn't very good with the ball but then the pitches in that series were nowhere as spin-friendly as the pitches Australia played on.

How does his failures here put Stokes in a better light? At least Moeen did not throw his team under the bus. Ashwin? Lol. Moeen may be "turning out to be a HTB" but Ashwin is already one of the biggest HTBs of this era. Shakib was always the best test all-rounder in the world. Ali and Stokes are joint-second. Ashwin is no all-rounder, simply a bowler who bats a bit.

This series has proved the fact that he is nowhere close to Stokes.

Yeah, Stokes has been fantastic in this Ashes series.

 

[Bewal Express]

Bit of a knee jerk reaction? Don't think he will be dropped for a while but I agree that he has been poor this series.

For me he can come back as a batsman but his spin or the lack of is the most worrying aspect. Even Root puts more revs on the ball and the bits i watched, even taking into the road nature of the pitch his revs on the ball would be less than what you find in the Birmingham league. This may be due to the finger or poor wrist position at the time of the release but the spin is negligible.

 

[Robert]

This series has proved the fact that he is nowhere close to Stokes.

Not necessarily - he has been carrying an injury all series which has rendered him powerless with the ball. But I thought he would get a century somewhere. He plays spin better than Stokes but Lyon has tied him in knots. A horror tour for him.

Drop him and give Crane a run. He’s a tailender but Moeen is not scoring runs anyway.

 

[Ab Fan]

*Moeen.

Moeen scored two centuries in India and was arguably one of their best batsmen on tour. He wasn't very good with the ball but then the pitches in that series were nowhere as spin-friendly as the pitches Australia played on.

How does his failures here put Stokes in a better light? At least Moeen did not throw his team under the bus. Ashwin? Lol. Moeen may be "turning out to be a HTB" but Ashwin is already one of the biggest HTBs of this era. Shakib was always the best test all-rounder in the world. Ali and Stokes are joint-second. Ashwin is no all-rounder, simply a bowler who bats a bit.



Yeah, Stokes has been fantastic in this Ashes series.

Moeen did well with the bat in India but a lot was expected from him with the bowl. Indian conditions are where he could maximize his run scoring as well as taking wickets because those conditions suit his game the most. However, he was a flop with the bowl and did fared well with the bat. In Australia, he is having an absolute horror show with both bat and field.

Stokes is better because he was the man of the series in England win to South Africa in South Africa and won a match in Bangladesh with his all round performance. He also did well last time in Australia and was good with bowl even in India.

Ashwin's batting has been pretty poor these days but I still back him to get some useful runs abroad where his batting will be of a lot use. Yes, his all round skills are under question but he is still one of the leading spinner in the world and if he can average over 30 with bat with some standout performance against better sides, he will be rated as a genuine all rounder and a very good one. As a cricketer, he is well ahead of Moeen.

 

[Hasan123]

It's been a poor for series and it has proven Moen cannot be relied on as a role spinner and he has shown he doesn't have the temperament to bat up the order.

 

[FreePalestine]

Looks like Moeen will be dropped for this final test, based on what I am reading from Root and Bairstow in the papers. I feel for him.

He did have a tough tour but all commentators (including the English ones) were gunning from him pretty much after 1st test. He struggled with unlucky injuries throughout the tour and fell even further when everyone wanted to throw him under the bus immediately.

TBH, unconscious bias has played a major role in how Moeen Ali has been welcomed by English pundits and journalists. Often it was so blatant, I am sure it could have even been conscious bias. I doubt that if he were white he would have been subject to the same level of abuse and dismissiveness as he has had to endure. Remember, only two months ago, the English were calling him one of the best all rounders ever in English history! A white player with that kind of pedigree would have been shown way more patience and support.

He seems like a strong person internally, and I hope he will continue to enjoy his cricket. Your fans know the score Ali, and will continue to love your talent and your calm, humble and compassionate personality.

 

[James]

Ashley Giles got loads of abuse and he was a white Englishman.

 

[shaz619]

Ashley Giles got loads of abuse and he was a white Englishman.

So in what ways is this point of yours relevant to Moeen Ali ?

 

[shaz619]

He shouldn't have been picked if he wasn't 100% then again options have been very thin for England and others had let them down severely. His preparations have been far from ideal and he came into the series very green, however he was not expected to do anything special with the ball; AUS has been very cruel to touring spinners but he'd be disappointed for not contributing with the bat. He will remain a crucial member of the Test team moving forward though and I expect him to bounce back.

 

[shaz619]

Looks like Moeen will be dropped for this final test, based on what I am reading from Root and Bairstow in the papers. I feel for him.

He did have a tough tour but all commentators (including the English ones) were gunning from him pretty much after 1st test. He struggled with unlucky injuries throughout the tour and fell even further when everyone wanted to throw him under the bus immediately.

TBH, unconscious bias has played a major role in how Moeen Ali has been welcomed by English pundits and journalists. Often it was so blatant, I am sure it could have even been conscious bias. I doubt that if he were white he would have been subject to the same level of abuse and dismissiveness as he has had to endure. Remember, only two months ago, the English were calling him one of the best all rounders ever in English history! A white player with that kind of pedigree would have been shown way more patience and support.

He seems like a strong person internally, and I hope he will continue to enjoy his cricket. Your fans know the score Ali, and will continue to love your talent and your calm, humble and compassionate personality.

Don't judge how Mo is welcomed by pundits and journalists but it would be better to judge that by how his team have welcomed him and the patience / support which he has enjoyed from them, he has played 48 Tests which vindicates just that and majority of the fans support him to.

 

[Markhor]

So a guy who gets a cut on his spinning finger is made to play all four Tests despite not being able to spin the ball, and gets destroyed.

Meanwhile you don't want to play your backup spinner because he's played only a handful of FC games and is very raw, leaving no option but persist with an unfit player rapidly losing confidence.

Bayliss and Whittaker logic ladies and gentlemen.

 

[FreePalestine]

Ashley Giles got loads of abuse and he was a white Englishman.

Ashley Giles was loved by all and got a lot of support. Everyone knew he was a rubbish spinner and a decent lower order bat and accepted that. Whereas Ali's role has never been properly defined, moved up and down the order, first spinner / second spinner, and as soon as he has a bad series, calling for his head. No one ever called for Giles' head. He was welcomed by all - the proverbial 'king of Spain'.

 

[FreePalestine]

But interesting comparison.. to take it further - look at what happened to Monty's career. Sure, he had his ups and downs, but if you listen to his interview in the sky sports doc on him, you see that there were times in his career where he was completely abandoned. Then he went off the rails even further. Not an isolated story I reckon with minority cricketers in England. Although lot of progress there, but still a lot more work to do.

Giles and Monty fought for that spot for a period, even though Monty was clearly the better spinner. Sure Giles had more prowess with the bat and wasn't quality in the field, but lets imagine for a second that Monty was white and Giles was brown... do you think the situation would have panned out differently?